Queering Michael Bay | The Whole Plate: Episode 8

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Twitter: @thelindsayellis
/ lindsayellis

[@alberthadonlyone]

I'm pretty sure it is bays lifelong goal to replace all of his emotions with explosions

[@CaseyShontz]

I know it’s two years later but I have to say I can’t believe this comment doesn’t have more likes

[@jonakoltaj9347]

Omfg this is the funniest thing in the world

[@alberthadonlyone]

@@jonakoltaj9347 Fascinating, I had no idea my old comment got somewhat popular. Kinda made my day, thanks for that.

[@julian7247]

honestly thats an aspiration I could get behind, I try to do a similar thing but with snarkiness and self deprekating cynicism.

[@MissPoplarLeaf]

This is the saddest and funniest thing I've read today.

[@PokePub]

Let us not forget that Megan Fox's character is called Mikaela Banes. He literally named the female love interest after himself

[@NemoK]

Maybe it's just Bay exploring his feminine side! ... nah. He's a narcissist.

[@weirdskyreallyweird.5519]

Jay Hicks OMG Michael Bay is an autogynophile

[@lispy5174]

Skylar O'kane can’t tell if you’re saying that with irony or you actually believe blanchard’s typology?

[@weirdskyreallyweird.5519]

Rebbie it’s mostly ironic. I don’t believe in Blanchards theory at least as it pertains to trans women(especially since I am a trans woman lol). I think it’s possible that some men do get off to the idea of being a woman which is I mean, you do you ya know?

[@lispy5174]

@@weirdskyreallyweird.5519 i see! idk, from the way your message was phrased earlier i couldn't help but have some flight or flight reflex. (something something, it sounds like something a typical transmisogynist or a terf would say.) thanks for the clarification!

[@robertbaillargeon3683]

Okay, I think I found proof that this is the most harmful series of video essays ever created: they make me curious about watching the Michael Bay Transformers movies.

[@OverdramaticAngel]

Oh thank god, I'm not alone. I'm actually beginning to genuinely contemplate it. Quick, someone talk me out of it!

[@Insider2000]

Lindsay is watching this comment like Cersei watched the Sept of Baelor explode in Game of Thrones.

[@FallenAngelKystre]

Watch the first and the second. Leave the rest in the garbage

[@douglasdaniel4504]

Star Hunter Snap out of it!

[@mizushimo]

The only way to survive all the michael bay transformers movies are to watch it with friends and play a drinking game at the same time.

[@crabbieappleton]

In a society that doesn't value women as equals, the only meaningful relationship a man can have is with another man. Hence: the homoerotic undertone of action films.

[@jonathansalvador5037]

In action films, the female love interest is a totem to the man's straightness. But his real romance is with his male friend.

[@aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa9068]

@Ooohbopbopboppadoohwah yeah those guys were so misogynist they were gay

[@jonathansalvador5037]

@@bangband1 You're a little slow, huh?

[@RajeshPatel-bp8rs]

Deleting other people's comments because of disagreement is the epitome of patheticness.

[@maxmustermann-zx9yq]

that's literally the philosophy of ancient greek nobility XD

[@liamshanley4920]

6:17 There was actually an episode of Modern Family where Mitchell talks about how SpiderMan comics helped him through his homosexual awakening as a teenager. “He was always relatable to me. A teenager with this big secret that he can’t tell anyone.”

[@RoryStarr]

Knowing Stan Lee, it's entirely possible that was intentional.

[@jackalopehayes]

Rory Stevens wasn’t stan lee famously staunchly against andrew garfield wanting spiderman to be bisexual? i believe that whole debacle is part of why andrew was fired...

[@garyaltus]

Don't shit on Stan Lee's Legacy. He was strongly against a gay Peter Parker.

[@borednerd5767]

@@garyaltus well now i really really want a gay peter parker

[@lameduck1690]

@@garyaltus Lol, he wasn't "strongly against" a gay Spider-Man. He made a joke that "one sex is enough for anybody" when Garfield mentioned it; he didn't say "Spider-Man can't be gay or bisexual."

[@seir323]

It's funny, Gaston, Jafar, and Scar were all animated by Andreas Deja - as well as more 'heroic' characters like King Triton and Hercules,. He's openly gay, and when I found out they were all connected to the same gay man, I totally understood the 'acting' style of the animator. Not to mention the very fabulous voice actors and character designers who shape them all too. God I love animation and how it can have so many creators shaping their world.

[@JensenEntertainment]

Hercules was also animated by him and herc's reference model was also gay. Another of his animators was gay. His voice was VERY hetero Tate Donovan. So, Herc has always given me a sorta "mostly straight" bi vibe. Lol

[@pinkwings8036]

seir323 Hercules having a more bi vibe really ties in nicely with how Greek heroes were expected to be more bi than straight. It’s a little detail and probably accidental, but darn if it isn’t fitting.

[@martynap2930]

Hercules in the original myth WAS bisexual so this "bi vibe" could have been intentional

[@carlosalmonacid8958]

Thing is, he based Scar on his straight voice actor Jeremy Irons, and Jafar was based on Vincent Price

[@raccoonjs6437]

That makes sense now.

[@LostCosmonauts]

Do you think Lindsay comes up with video topics specifically to find a way to use that *see how I glitter* clip?

[@Nenisle]

Wtf are you doing here?

[@Ireallywouldrathernot]

One does not need an excuse to do that.

[@paranoidlizard6338]

Without a doubt

[@Toffypot91]

You can always use the glitter clip.

[@rachaelbao]

I think yes and she can make a compelling argument for how it applies to any discussion.

[@cairn4838]

now here's a queer theory: megatron only keeps starscream around because he can't find anyone else to top him

[@melodiczombie]

Tesla-Effect Agreed. Starscream is definitely a power bottom.

[@sethroy4318]

Submissive/bitchy/twinkish and bottom are not synonymous, kids. I'm a 5'4" otter and I top most of the time. I've topped 6' bears. I know, wtmi, sorry. Point is, I like OP's headcanon.

[@cairn4838]

e x a c t l y!

[@technopoptart]

royaltypical- that is the legitest theory i have heard anyone say about starscream in months

[@kevinsanchez4808]

Tesla-Effect Jesus fucking Christ on a saltine!!

[@bfish89ryuhayabusa]

I get the feeling that Michael Bay was trying to portray the whole "friends can talk shit on each other, and it's ok", but he forgot to show that anyone actually does like anyone else. It's like he's only going off of what he saw in other movies, but doesn't understand why it works or what's actually going on beneath the surface.

[@Wolftess]

Maybe he just doesn't have any close friends.

[@oof-rr5nf]

@Krista Star lmaoooooooooo

[@Kittymouth]

It reminds me of something I heard recently that I'm having trouble finding the source to. "You can't write a story about secret identities and then be surprised when it attracts queer people."

[@KingsandGenerals]

I ate the whole plate. I mean, watched all of your videos.

[@hiddenhist]

Kings and Generals interesting how I come across you here.

[@KingsandGenerals]

One of my favorite channels :-)

[@hiddenhist]

Kings and Generals I suppose great minds think alike :pppp

[@OfficialNWS]

I came back for seconds.

[@mynthecooldude]

Big fan BTW!

[@TheUnluckyEverydude]

I can't believe I forgot about the "It's My Birthday" ship from Ragnorok. God I love that ship. God I love that button.

[@PoptartKid]

I need it as a ringtone 😆

[@nonaide]

Ragnarok is truly such a gem

[@SomeFreakingCactus]

There’s a deleted scene in which they found bizarre, holographic and implicitly pornographic depictions of Jeff Goldblum’s character. Nothing actually pornographic, though. Just Jeff getting his face massaged by what appears to be pool noodle tentacles.

[@ohmethiasknight5009]

It is absolutely wonderful and everything I need right now

[@DecafKauffee]

Don’t forget the Devil’s Anus!

[@ProfessorStaircase]

Fun fact, a lot of the 90s Disney villains (including Scar and Gaston) were animated primarily by Andreas Deja, who is gay himself.

[@ingonyama70]

"...Oh, I shall practice my curtsy." @@kinfeofspaghetti

[@benvoliothefirst]

Not to mention the composers, who came from broadway. As a cis white male I can honestly say that they only started getting really good when they started getting gayer.

[@maxcettigers9122]

royalstaircase that doesn't prove they're gay.

[@williammclean5897]

Alan Menken is straight, and has a wife and daughter. But Howard Ashman was gay

[@lehahiah81]

@@williammclean5897 I've known many gay people that are married to the opposite gender and aren't bi, but use marriage as a way to hide there sexuality. I found this out about one of y managers, and I also found out one of my other managers showers with her pet iguana (still odd she shared that)

[@isaiahfisher2337]

5:12 What I kind of liked about the Great Mouse Detective was that Basil, the protagonist, was a bit queer-coded himself. (And in a way, the character of Sherlock Holmes almost always is in media.) Even if he isn't as "obvious" as Rattigan, it's still there. The flamboyance, eccentricity, the hints at his and Rattigan's "rivalry". And the fact that he's a bachelor and there's no romance plot like in every other Disney movie. Idk... I just like it a lot. I'd like more Disney characters that were queer-coded in "good ways".

[@BackyardEpicMovies]

I've often wondered why everyone is so angry and hateful in Michael Bay's films.

[@dariendude17]

BackyardEpicMovies it's the one thing in his movies i DESPISE the most. It makes them unwatchable to me. All of his characters are SUCH COMPLETE ASSHOLES to each other it drives me insane.

[@johnlee7164]

Watch her other essays on this. She made a lot.

[@TheNwr1]

I always thought it was just a more extreme view of masculinity (though it should be known as toxic masculinity, because threatening to beat someone with a bat and holding cameras up girls skirts should at least catch you a charge).

[@Tareltonlives]

Insecurity? And probably because it's supposed to be funny

[@porsche911sbs]

I don't like those movies because they make me feel bad when I watch them.

[@CuteCuteJames]

You want a gay action hero? I got your gay action hero. Sportacus.

[@catoticneutral]

hot

[@catoticneutral]

@@kendallmoore4826 Robbie is salty and closeted and has a secret crush on Sportacus (tbh who wouldn't) that's why he's trying to capture him.

[@an8strengthkobold360]

That's a bit of a grey area.

[@passwordyeah729]

That's hot. That's big.

[@rbsadler]

This is going to sound ridiculous, but Lindsay made it okay for me to come out as bisexual. It was something I had kept locked up my whole life until I read her blog about being bi and the erasure that can come with it. It makes me so happy to see someone I respect so much being openly bi and proud! Thank you @Lindsay Ellis!

[@oof-rr5nf]

ashgreen2080 That was not ridiculous at all. That _was_ super sweet, however.

[@JensenEntertainment]

Where is her essay on bi Erasure? I'm bi too (quickly noticed her shirt in this video and it makes me smile) and have strong feelings about bi Erasure

[@rbsadler]

Jensen Entertainment It’s in her blog archives! I think it was titled “Thoughts on Pride”.

[@christmastiger]

I need to find this because I feel like bi erasure is not given enough attention

[@EcceJack]

@@JensenEntertainmentYup, as soon as she appeared in the frame, I thought to myself: "Hey, I recognise that flag!! :D"

[@echovalentine6206]

What you said about Sam and Bumblee Bee's relationship being one of object and owner reminds me of all the cognitive dissonance and annoyance I have with the current Venom run where Venom, who has had a child with Eddie in the comics is suddenly turned into a a brainless dog and everything is retconned. Please, just let this man love his asexual slime. They call each other love and dearest already. Fill my gay heart, won't you, comics? But now the author of these comics is getting angry at the 'tumblr' squad of people who think his comic run is boring and violent and takes from none of the earlier buildup. He's been calling people gaslighters without knowing what that means and he's been trying to de-legitimize other comics for his own personal pleasure because he sees Eddie as a self-insert of himself---a straight, cis white man.

[@mastermarkus5307]

Gross, and also, sad...

[@psyc8407]

Echo Valentine What? From what I heard of, the undertones ran pretty deep in the movie! That coward should get with the times!

[@TT-qi6xb]

Seriously, man!! I actually signed up for a Venom comic subscription specifically because of the 2016 run, and the first fuckin comic that came in the mail utterly ruined it. Symbrock and the 2016 run were fucking amazing, and it makes me so sad the next guy just fckin wrecked it

[@urdnotstark8270]

The thing I’m taking away from this is that I never realized how much everyone hates each other in the transformers movies. That’s why Prime is so much better, the autobots are like family and a good few decepticons have some mutual respect as fellow warriors

[@KevinTheTimeGeek86]

I'd argue in favor of Captain Jack Harkness from "Doctor Who" and "Torchwood" being an example of a non-straight action hero. Granted, the character is depicted as pansexual in-universe despite John Barrowman himself being openly gay in real life. Still a fascinating insight, though.

[@jrobertlysaght]

What I loved about Jack in Doctor Who, but kind of abandoned in Torchwood, was that he grew up in a time where we had gotten beyond even acceptance, and on to everyone just being. And I love the pansexual spin on the formerly very hetro trope of the sailor/soldier type that wants to sleep with every cutie that walks by.

[@anna-thealittek9662]

@@jrobertlysaght I'm sure he wants a dance, but who with?

[@fruitcake6372]

Honestly, when he kissed the doctor. That’s literally one of my earliest and favorite queer moments in pop culture. I had to pause it I was so excited.

[@andrewlaporte5477]

@@fruitcake6372 Compare that kiss to Rose. Almost subtle by comparison. Wonderful.

[@lorbaborb]

Jack was written so well, pan wasn't a personality trait but just a thing that was there on top of an already great character and they kept the pan thing going instead of slipping it in once so they could tick the representation box and then forget about it

[@risky_busine55]

Honestly straight ppl queercoding violations just made me hot for bad characters

[@wandanemer2630]

HA! Joke's on them!

[@aerongrimm3162]

I knew there was a reason I always thought the villain was hotter

[@cheesecakelasagna]

@@aerongrimm3162 and also more interesting. Straight protagonists be boring blank slate like that.

[@katytui3746]

@@cheesecakelasagna I’ve been rewatching old Disney movies lately, and when I got to sleeping beauty I honestly just wanted Maleficent to kill everyone because I was so bored.

[@TheEmpathyMachine]

holy hell why did it take until now to realize that yes...most of the relationships filled in the transformers franchise are fueled by HATE?! great essay Lindsay. really love your work.

[@RAFMnBgaming]

Honestly it's surprising how a man who so openly reveres the millitary wouldn't try to work some camraderie, rapport or even specific interpersonal strains inbetween the soldiers central to Transformers.

[@lupusprobitas]

I never quite knew why I didn't care about any of the characters in the Transformers movies, well except for them being terribly written. I think that underlying antagonism is a big part of it. It kinda shows that Michael Bay doesn't care about them either.

[@RAFMnBgaming]

@Afqwa *Nonchalantly whistles In The Navy by The Village People*

[@RAFMnBgaming]

Oh and to add insult to injury Bumblebee managed to make a bunch of soldiers feel more human in 5 minutes of intro than Bay manages in 5 films.

[@CreoTan]

I'm surprised Hot Fuzz wasn't mentioned in terms of homoerotic buddy cop movies, especially considering parts of Danny and Nick's relationship was purposefully written as romantic...or, well, written specifically _for_ Nick and a romantic lead who was cut. The romantic lead was cut from the movie, but because her parts were so essential to Nick's arc they were given to Danny.

[@MajinCCBThePrince]

source? This is the internet and I'm not new here, most rumours like this tend to be bullshit

[@CreoTan]

www.imdb.com/title/tt0425112/trivia It's the second piece of trivia on the IMDb page: "The first draft of the script included a love interest for Nicholas named Victoria. She was cut from subsequent drafts, but a good amount of her dialogue was given to Danny, often without any changes."

[@Khrene]

Its just goes to show you that relationships are relationships regardless of if you're fucking or jot

[@Khrene]

@@yootoob6003 Lol WTF, you're shitting right?

[@RAFMnBgaming]

Huh, never would have guessed. And to be honest, i think they made the right call.

[@CazTheGamerGuy]

Lindsay's videos are never late, it just takes time to eat the whole plate.

[@ZionsWorld]

Caz The WHOLE plate!?

[@CazTheGamerGuy]

The whole plate.

[@WildWestSamurai]

A Lindsey essay is never late... nor is it early. It arrives PRECISELY when it means to.

[@neferacronia6798]

Caz Nice rhyme!

[@leiram8833]

Bars

[@CaptainJZH]

At last, we have reached... The Gayness.

[@drumstick6610]

Correct captain jiz

[@CaptainJZH]

Brandon Roberts Indeed it is :P

[@jaysonedson]

+Brandon Roberts what about a light socket or a pint of ice cream? Mine goes in there a few times a year.

[@GLAASJEMELC]

I just got off board of Matt Baum's culture cruise to check this out ;)

[@naomie2870]

For those wondering what IDW comic she's refering to in the video its More than Meets the Eye by James Roberts. Its still ongoing at the moment with a newer title of Lost Light but, hitting its end this September at issue #25. MTMTE is about 56 issues (correct me if im wrong but it should be close to that) and Lost Light has 19 issues at the moment. Personally I really enjoy this comic and its great seeing it come into the spotlight. Not only does it have lgbt characters part of its main cast but its story will make you laugh, cry and really grow fond of characters who were left in the shadows while in other continuites of Transformers. I can try to answer other questions if any regarding the comic as many in the comment section seem to be lost at where to all start. Enjoy the read!

[@TimdeVisser86]

To add to the very short list of LGBTQ action heroes, Deadpool is pansexual.

[@oof-rr5nf]

Tim de Visser I wish it were more explicit in the films :'(

[@lilymakescrap3816]

Arunima Tiwari I see your point, but there’s still a minute long scene where Wade tries to get Colossus to bang him.

[@oof-rr5nf]

Tho I was pleased with Negasonic and Yukio (still, they could've had bigger roles).

[@TimdeVisser86]

me too. I'm most concerned that the most explicit mlm moments in Deadpool read like jokes rather than genuine attempts at romance. That and the obvious transphobia in the first movie.

[@oof-rr5nf]

@@TimdeVisser86 The fuck. When was it transphobic? What did I miss!

[@keithinadhd6693]

I always thought these characters you mention were European, as a child. It never dawned on me they were gay.

[@davidbauler3159]

Fopish characters in literature were not necessarily intended to be read as gay. Yet, with 19th century urbanization and the rise of a gay underground/gay rights activism, "gender inversion" became a coded way to refer to gay men and women. Speaking in code became necessary due to homophobia and the various legal/cultural layers of art/media censorship that existed.

[@hellothere4858]

Posh , gay and camp tends to be wrapped up together and for some reason US media related tat to Europeans

[@johnblack4307]

Queer coding does not necessarily mean they are gay, the point is that it’s implied

[@foreverdead1248]

I'd say possibly because in many European countries men are just in general allowed to be far more affectionate - to family, to friends, both male and female. In American culture, affectionate is inherently labeled as 'feminine' and anything a man does that's feminine immediately gets the 'gay' label tacked on to it. So affection men being viewed through an American culture lens is almost always at least suspected of being gay. Also add european men because of their culture being allowed to be more physically affectionate, American culture just kind of sticks them on the same corkboard.

[@johnblack3204]

Katherine Lynch That was the first that came to my mind.

[@seir323]

Listening to all of the accents of the robots in quick succession at 11:12, I realized - holy shit, those are all not 'proper' dialects - the british accents are rough country/poor folk, or Irish/Scottish approximations; there's ebonics, and southern drawrl. And when you go on to the 'no homo because you're property/an animal,' even in the higher class character's case, where he's the butler or manservant- who had very close relationships to their 'masters' but the british class system can be super rigid ........ Bay's transformers aren't 'robots in disguise,' but instead 'robots in servitude.' There's totally a capitalist rant in here somewhere, if you haven't already made one and I just forgot because it was a while ago. -__-''

[@doomstadt2371]

It was very generous of you to refer to the actors in Bay's films as "characters".

[@Shenny4everTBBT]

I LOVE THE BISEXUAL SHIRT!!!

[@oof-rr5nf]

Shenny4everTBBT I KNOW RIGHT

[@dariendude17]

So... Shes bi? I don't follow her Twitter so I'm out of the loop if this is common knowledge among her fans. Last i heard she and shadow todd were dating. Not that that precludes her being bi.

[@SodaVampire]

A few years ago she came out as bi on her personal blog and twitter and revealed that she and Todd were no longer dating. She recently got married to a different person.

[@Salocinist]

YASS I didn't know that! i know it has nothing to do with me like at all but the fact that one of my top academic role models is bi too makes me feel so freaking Valid (TM)

[@Solanuma]

SodaVampire hell yeah

[@FinniFaun]

"Oh wow you went to a really prestigious film school! What do you do now?" "I create 50 part video essays on why Michael Bay's Transformers series transcends Hollywoods ideas on feminism and robot to human relationships." But seriously Lindsay never stop video essays, love ya and appreciate ya❤️

[@Panthersoup]

I love this series, but during this episode in particular I was just impatiently bouncing up and down the whole time waiting for you to mention IDW, ha. Also, I'm surprised you didn't mention how the movies seem to deliberately eliminate any potential for a homoerotic reading of Optimus and Megatron's history by making them brothers. That always bothered me, and seemed too convenient to not be a purposeful no homo.

[@RAFMnBgaming]

All that fist grabbing, wrestling, insitence on fighting each other one on one and irritation whenever anyone steps in. No, i can't see how anyone can misconstrue any sort of homosexual relationship between Optimus and Megatron, when the homosexual relationship between Megatron and Starscream is *so* much more obvious.

[@That_Lady_Charlie]

more like Michael GAY am I right

[@2nd3rd1st]

no

[@juliat.9719]

you so are

[@asalways1504]

Aw man, you beat me to it.

[@Illtempo-nz1de]

stellvia hoenheim more like stellvia homoheim

[@seanhamilton3162]

Lindsay’s channel 80% transformers things 20% other stuff

[@anarchoshaggy-ism3925]

not realllyyyyy......

[@d1e1c0k2]

i'd give it a solid 50/50 with disney stuff

[@edisonmichael6345]

Whatever the division, Lindsay is always 100% Pure Awesomeness!

[@rebekahcastro5430]

Yeah not really no I mean Google Nostalgia Chick I don't feel like doing the math

[@seanhamilton3162]

Rebekah Castro I’m exaggerating

[@Undrave]

IDW treats the Transformers as characters, Michael Bay treats them as vector for set piece action scene.

[@johnjcoe9198]

The IDW comics do actually make some great points that the movies SHOULD: How would a completely synthetic (i.e. robotic) society handle gender in the first place? There's some truly thought-provoking ideas that can explored in the Transformers series, ideas that Michael Bay is not equipped to handle....

[@Calvin_Coolage]

John Coe Wouldn't they not handle it at all because it likely wouldn't exist? I mean, yeah having transformers with tits with no explanation is weird, but so is a synthetic society having genders at all. What possible purpose would they serve?

[@sidereus95]

Calvin_Coolage It's interesting to note that Lindsay talks about a similar point in one of her other Transformers videos. When it came to the concept of female coded transformers, she quotes one of the creators as saying it would "require an explanation." Her counterpoint was if a coded female transformer would require an explanation, then why would the male-coded ones, being the majority, not require one? It's also worth considering that gender in a society of synthetic beings wouldn't be nearly as strange when you have a character like Primus who is, quite literally, a mechanical equivalent of a creator god.

[@RAFMnBgaming]

@@Calvin_Coolage Personal expression? Perhaps they, like humans, like to categorize similar people together into groups, and after a while these groups become a self reinforcing template for themselves.

[@langletprolet8378]

@@blackbloom8552 Or even simpler than that, is to go by the G1 cartoon's origins of these "Cybertronians" itself where they were basically made as products to be sold to consumers by a race called Quintessons. From that, it's really not too far fetched as to *why* there would be a female/male coded robot at all. Why would there not be

[@MakiPcr]

I would like to see a version of Transformers where they are a truly genderless society (I'm looking at you Simon Furman)

[@jamesbunt6846]

I think the word for the Sam/Bumblebee dynamic you are looking for is slave. Bumblebee is purchased for Sam, and never does he complain that his first car turned out to be a person, so he doesn't have a car, "no Bumblebee, you are my car." is unspoken, but assumed.

[@paaklapi]

Have I gotten something wrong? Isn't Bumblebee's duty to protect Sam or something?

[@pinkwings8036]

Sam even apologizes to bumblebee after buying a new car with "you'll always be my first car". BUMBLEBEE IS A SENTIENT BEING YA DINGUS, YOU COULD GIVE HIM A LITTLE RESPECT.

[@TheNwr1]

Pink Wings Isn't he respecting bumblebee's agency by getting a new car instead of forcing him to be a car? And isn't he respecting bumblebee as a person by also assuring him that they'll still be as close as they were before?

[@gregjayonnaise8314]

Gay rep in Transformers? Starscream is right there On another note, I’m happy it was addressed the inherent insecurity towards masculinity present in Bays films. I don’t think every character in every form of media needs to be gay, but I think there is the underlying issue of guys being fearful of showing vulnerable emotions, not only to other men, but to women as well. For some reason, we immediately link emotional vulnerability, sadness, grief, and empathy with weakness, which is a trend I’m glad there is less of in movies as of recent.

[@daynanolan6619]

queen of bisexuals i'm declaring it

[@nicksurename5392]

I dunno my votes for Contrapoints, Although I would otherwise!

[@CaptainJZH]

There can be two :P

[@marcelcummings7418]

So she IS bi...

[@pickledragon]

J H nah she's hitched fam

[@TSFboi]

seconded

[@battleupsaber462]

Knowing that Lindsay reads the IDW Transformers comics makes me happy in so many ways I can't even describe

[@Azvee]

Starscream becomes president in them, how could she not read that?

[@riley8385]

TheRezro Lindsay is a big transformers fan, you must be new here.

[@DymondMatt]

TheRezro - She has been reading them for years.. www.tor.com/2015/01/12/the-best-sci-fi-adventure-you-didnt-read-in-2014-transformers-more-than-meets-the-eye/

[@Ouchimoo]

LOL! Why would you think she doesn't read them? She's doing an entire video series about Transformers, but it's a stretch to think she reads the comics? What?!?

[@ginge641]

Brandie Hanson They didn't say that. At all.

[@tapedeck8267]

Sour Ex-Boyfriend Mice is really what the Great Mouse Detective should've been called

[@wandanemer2630]

It's just so true.

[@Azvee]

God bless you for putting the Tailgate/Cyclonus scene in this video. I waited 6 years for that arc to finish and as many people as possible need to see it.

[@mAnGaLoVeR4eV2536]

oh god. oh god. oh god. that bad boys opening was so freaking uncomfortable. ew ew ew. why do cishet men insist on zeroing in on hypersexual perceptions of gay men and using it as a cringe factor??? its forcing the audience to wallow in their disgust-turned-fetish and i just uGH. every cell in my body recoils.

[@AlternateHistoryHub]

"And still are in many places in the world." On an unrelated note can't wait for Qatar 2022

[@edisonmichael6345]

Qatar 2022, a world cup that is being built by enslaved workers (literally enslaved, not metaphorically) in a country where even straight people can get beaten in public for holding hands. Ah, the FUTURE! It doesn't quite look like what 50's science fiction promised us.

[@mathieuleader8601]

OOF

[@sdgdhpmbp]

Edison Michael Yeah, that's awful. Say, how're America and Russia looking these days?

[@johanandersson5846]

Edison Michael Maybe if you hold hands with your wife but in their culture it is normal when two men are holding hands to show friendship, not like in the US when you get hunted with a shotgun if you hold hands with another male...

[@TheHalcyonTwilight]

You're over-exaggerating how homophobic the US is. It has problems, but it's insulting when you pretend that its worse than Saudi Arabia. And I say that as a non-American.

[@SongbirdAlom]

Robbie Rotten is a good example of queer-coded villainy, love him (and LazyTown) as much as I do - he's flamboyant, is always in purple (or bright orange , hot pink), seems "too" into Sportacus (AO3 has no less than 1400 "Sportarobbie" fan fics - seriously), and is seen as a pariah/outlier in the town (which only seems to have 8 or so people, but...). I love the show, but it's important to acknowledge coding where it is. Great vid!

[@phazonsuitzora]

Thanks for the IDW mention! Anode and Lug, putting the "trans" in "Transformers."

[@raptor797]

never ever stop using "see how I glitter". I laugh every single time

[@Natala00]

This is brilliant, but it needed a Rantasmo cameo. Only because the two of you are awesome together. ^^

[@bobmiller3627]

"I'm Rantasmo, and Michael Bay needs more gay." *cue Rantasmo theme song

[@davidbauler3159]

Rantasmo did something last year with Brows Held High.....

[@bobmiller3627]

"Rantasmo did something last year with Brows Held High....." Oh I'm sure he did. "Get it girl, get it!"

[@davidbauler3159]

it was about the famous bard.

[@thehopeofeden597]

New Lindsay. Good. I was hungry.

[@marcelcummings7418]

h u n g e r

[@det.bullock4461]

Oh, god what have you done with the other Lindsays!?

[@Liamthegreat2008]

The w h o l e plate

[@Holobrine]

Awsamazing Eden She's been working with PBS Digital Studios in case you didn't know.

[@Grim_Sister]

Then eat the whole plate

[@monkeyshunenugz]

I hope "body language" becomes the next "see how I glitter."

[@Droemar]

Wow. I think the ultimate point being made here is Michael Bay is so afraid of being read as gay in any capacity, he can't even depict heteronormative friendships. That's pretty fuckin' sad. And he goes so far in the other direction he's almost meeting himself halfway anyway.

[@TheWoostergirl]

You just reminded me why I love relationship betwean main characters in Fantastic Beasts. They're so reall and full of love and understanding.

[@panthera9151]

...and then the sequel came out.

[@Nealrex101]

Panthera damn that hit hard

[@jbvader721]

We do not speak of that! Not after She Who Must Not be Named revealed her true colors.

[@TheXitone]

Its so weird to see these terrible cheesy films analyzed in such articulate depth. lol

[@TykoBrian7]

Patriot Cat want some catnip ?

[@lamcb.9476]

I mean I am kinda excited to see Bee as a f-ing Beetle again. And Starscream his original fighterjet form... other than that... I am joining you in the not-trying-to-get-hyped-mindset

[@Lynch2507]

"The straights" will never not be funny to me

[@jonathanjoestarwithpluck4930]

Oisin Lynch The Str8s (tm)

[@nusretakdemir9141]

its not funny

[@timothymclean]

@@nusretakdemir9141 It will be funny as long as homophobes refer to "the gays".

[@fvdiw]

@@nusretakdemir9141 I’m straight and I find both “the gays” and “the straights” funny, I think you’re just triggered

[@darkstar2874]

@@timothymclean I think “the gays” is firmly on the path to reclamation tho, at least if my experiences within the community are any indication. When it is reclaimed I hope we keep using “the straights” too because there’s just something about that grammar of that I find hilarious.

[@windsock]

"why not play with what gender and relationships might look like to alien robots" sounds like a great idea for an alternate history sci-fi pentology

[@Zeph101theoriginal]

Just want to chime in the comments about the comics. IDW have been publishing TF comics since 2006, but it wasn't until the new and current writers James Roberts and John Barber started in 2012 that the concepts of TF sexuality, gender and romance were explored in any meaningful way.

[@jkclark5204]

I'm interested. But I read above that they are rebooting. Is that true?

[@MisterCasket]

It was in the originals too. Arcee stands out of course, but there also an episode where I think Beachcomber falls in love with a human woman. He even turns human for a while haha!

[@TheNovakv23]

So glad you've gotten a chance to pick up the IDW comics and incorporate them into your series.

[@maxwhalington8653]

‘Rip the comment section’ -Lindsay Ellis 2017

[@littlemisstfc]

What a majority of Transformers (mostly straights who will throw a fit over the smallest sign of LGBTQ+ representation) missed is that the Transformers franchise always have LGBTQ+ context then and now, especially within the shows such as Cyberverse, Animated, and Prime. Even though it's not explicit, it's still there and it's important to not dismiss it because it makes these characters relatable and human.

[@dvklaveren]

What I find interesting; the male autism community often adopts the mannerisms of queer-coded characters in movies. Perhaps because the theatrics and displays of emotions engage overactive empathy for those who have it or because these displays overcome the threshold of body language some of us have or because the displays of emotions are themselves both raw and refined and therefore seeming to be more transparent. All the while coding for recognizable struggles and frustrations for being different and being coded different. This may also be why Frozen is used both as an example of a coming out story for gay men and women without the luxury of expression as well as an example of a coming of age story for inhibited men and women with autism discovering extraversion in spite of anxiety.

[@oof-rr5nf]

Alderick van Klaveren awesome comment!

[@BWS2K]

I think, too, that folks on the autism spectrum... we don't see the world in such stark contrast regarding sexuality, and, being perhaps less overtly affected by the typical means of communicating the social construct sides of gender, feel less bound by The Rules and social norms. This is a *huge* discussion that I've only been able to catch glimpses of here and there around the 'net. Thank you for being so observant and brave enough to speak your mind. ;)

[@Jamie-kg8ig]

@@BWS2K I really wish Lindsay would do a video of some kind about folks on the autism spectrum. There is such potential for people like Lindsay or Contrapoints to talk about it's insane. Also to add onto this discussion, I feel that coming out stories for people who're LGBT and people with autism are actually fairly similar. We find out that we're not "normal" through a variety of different paths and then we face the dilemma of telling those around us about it. In a lot of cases it's just easier to stay quiet because explaining things or being accepted isn't easy. Or it could be like the scene from X-men 2 that Lindsay brings up where a family member asks why you just can't be normal.

[@BWS2K]

@@Jamie-kg8ig I think a discussion about how autism is presented in mass media could be very fruitful but I don't think Hollywood cares much. :(

[@Jamie-kg8ig]

@@BWS2K It really sucks too. I think the autism and the LGBT rights movements are pretty similar. Thing is that we're many years behind in both public acceptance and representation in media, most notably in film and video games. I can't think of that many characters in film or TV on the spectrum, and even fewer characters who're explicitly autistic. It's even worse in video games. I can't think of 5 characters who're on the spectrum at all, let alone explicitly.

[@smokerwolf]

another example of an openly gay action hero is Willem Dafoe's character on The Boondock Saints. His character is even more secondary than the detective on Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang, but it's extra remakable since the main characters are ultra religious

[@fluidthought42]

HEAVY SYSTEMS, Inc. It's entertaining as fuck, as any movie should be.

[@Flowtail]

_Bully_ ‘s main character is technically bisexual-does that count?

[@yocastanu]

And the killer in The silence of the lambs...

[@AcolytesOfHorror]

True, but even that character is openly hostile towards the idea of men sharing true affection, going so far as to call one of his lovers a slur for wanting to cuddle after sex. While I do think he's an interesting character (by far the best in the movie), it's telling that they felt the need to make him as macho as possible.

[@Flowtail]

William Mays Well, “gay” in big ol’ airquotes :T

[@nicolelee4800]

You can queer anything: tumblr lesson #1. (My favorite lesson.)

[@oof-rr5nf]

SAME

[@SomeFreakingCactus]

Lesson #2: Every ship floats.

[@oof-wi7hp]

mmhm it's my favourite lesson as well

[@daliborjovanovic510]

She talks about queer-coding in Transformers but makes no mention of Starscream? Most versions of Starscream could go toe to toe with any Disney Animated Canon villain in the evil queen department.

[@Erik-fn7kj]

THANK YOU FOR BRINGING UP THE IDW COMICS

[@lupusprobitas]

I never quite knew why I didn't care about any of the characters in the Transformers movies, well except for them being terribly written. I think that underlying antagonism is a big part of it, there's almost no camaraderie, no meeting of equals. It kinda shows that Michael Bay doesn't care about them either.

[@jiffylou98]

wait, have we not talked about the immigrant narratives? HOW HAVE WE NOT TALKED ABOUT THE IMMIGRANT NARRATIVES!?

[@jordan_roadhouse4798]

What would your short take on that point be?

[@ariellakahan-harth8831]

What a way to end Pride Month! Those comics look pretty cool.

[@LikeTheBuffalo]

I knew there was a reason I was re-watching "The Whole Plate." The Universe provides. Thank you, Lindsay.

[@JazzyRedMusic]

I've never even CONSIDERED looking into Transformers. But then Lindsay did a video on Starscream and I thought, "eh why not? I love all her other Loose Canons!" and watched it. And that led me to try watching Transformers Prime! Which is, so far, pretty good! Now, I really want to give these comics a try! But given the terrifying dilemma of American comics (WHERE DO I START? HOW MANY ARE THERE? IS THERE AN ENDING??? DOES IT MATTER??? etc.) I really don't know where to begin! Any suggestions on authors or titles for Transformers comics?

[@Air_Dan]

My favorite things about Lindsay's videos are that are worth re-watching over and over just because of the sheer amount of well-thought out knowledge when deconstructing media. Also I am so getting those comics now.

[@Erik-fn7kj]

The comics are really good :)

[@harrynelson803]

When I clicked on the video I was like "If see how I glitter is not in this video what's the point"

[@rachellawhead6923]

Harry Nelson it wouldn’t be a Lindsay video without “see how I glitter”

[@Tacom4ster]

I gotta check out that IDW comic, very few sci fi franchise explore nonhuman in an atypical relationship, except I don't know Steven Universe, which uses similar archtypes of Transformers.

[@KOTEBANAROT]

Adrian Dezendegui su is kind of a lot like transformers yeah. i want a crossover now

[@Tareltonlives]

The IDW run of Transformers is really good. Check it out.

[@YawaruSan]

I can't believe I ever stopped watching your content. These are great insights! I started writing recently and didn't realize how little I really knew about different people. I guess subconsciously I thought I knew enough from movies and TV

[@topherpaolucci3774]

Wow, I can’t believe Michael Bay threw the first brick at Stonewall! What an icon

[@grimtheghastly8878]

Me: **sees video on queer robots** Also me: **looks back on the time I had an OC that was a fully sentient, transgender android with a heavy German accent despite the fact that she was built in America** Did I predict the next Lindsay video?

[@grimtheghastly8878]

Kinesin Her name is Greta. It's an amalgamation of the names of the children her creator had before they passed away. She was meant to be an attempt to preserve their memory.

[@nsalegit9482]

that's a fucking cool ass oc. was it designed for a particular universe?

[@crankblack2359]

tell us more please

[@grimtheghastly8878]

CrankBlack She was created by a German scientist (he himself is gay but had to repress it for most of his life because he grew up in the mid 20th century) to memorialize his five daughters Gertrude, Romy, Elsa, Tresa, and Ava after they died in a lab accident. She is technically trans because although the form her physical body takes is meant to be androgynous it still wound up being more masculine than intended due to limited resources. She has a girlfriend (who is also a science experiment and a passion project of another scientist from Japan) but isn't exactly sure what her sexuality is and she has earned the title of meme mom among her friends.

[@ianbailey4213]

Do you mind if I write a wacky family comedy based around this character? I'll give reference and everything, but holy shit this is awesome.

[@DrZaius3141]

What does Scar think about Queer Theory? "It's to DIE for!"

[@CHMagIIIVFX]

Hey Lindsay: Thank you for jumpstarting my interest in film. Your videos from the NC days up to now have taught me so much I didn't get from community college film school, and I have always appreciated the passion you put into your work. This was another great video. Please keep up the amazing work!

[@TheDundeeBiscuitLuvU]

And then there is the Michael Bay produced Black Sails with its complex understanding of human relationship, queer and otherwise, and just a very queer based plot in terms of the main character motivations... I knoe MB had very little to do with it in general, but it's weird to think he had anything to do with that seried haha

[@oof-rr5nf]

'ha ha' indeed. Whcih reminds me! I gotta check this show out man.

[@Khrene]

13:40 Lindsey's hypothetical "Why would you be able to find queer readings in Transformers???" A previously partner of mine was into Transformers fan fiction. It got me realize how would a bunch of genderless robots that are coded male would undeniably be gay as fuck! Also Starscream's heels

[@rob00bz_]

i feel like the lack of queer coding in the bay movies is especially glaring with the 'cons, i mean have you seen starcream in literally any other continuity

[@pedrosequeira9829]

I used to think Michael Bay was a boring director obsessed with action and explosions. My opinion evolved, now I think he's an insecure manchild that wants loud bangs to suppress any of his emotions towards things.

[@JimmySteller]

It’s great that she mentioned Alexander. Say what you will about Oliver Stone’s film, but he was ahead of his time in portraying Alexander, particularly in the Final Cut. That movie first came out mere months after gay marriage was finally legalized here in Canada.

[@frydfish4934]

Knowing you read the IDW comics makes me happy

[@marteenyo]

The comeback of this series is the best pride gift I never thought I would get.

[@WoobooRidesAgain]

13:43 My roommates are now looking at me wondering why I suddenly shouted "YES!" at my laptop screen. I'm so glad you mentioned the IDW comics and how well they treat gender and sexuality in the Transformers comics...for the most part, anyway.

[@madnessends2477]

I see a Lindsay video, I click on it

[@guillermodebaskerville7117]

Madness Ends me too

[@grimtheghastly8878]

Madness Ends agreed

[@JovanaSanchez000]

I see you all are people of culture too. 👍

[@grimtheghastly8878]

Jovana Sanchez agreed

[@Marinanor]

I came, I clicked, I conquered.

[@KillerZeli]

I am not sure if Michael Bay was self aware while making Pain and Gain, but the screenwrites were. Underrated movie.

[@whoisyouranime]

I hope you end up reviewing Bumblebee with Andre "The Black Nerd". I love those videos.

[@Flowtail]

Bumblebee can get it in

[@Terrafissa]

Keep forgetting to say: thanks for making this series. It's been very interesting to watch.

[@makothetako]

Honestly anyone asking "why would you expect anything gay out of Transformers?" can just look back at the cartoons as well. While nothing's as clearly spelled out as in the comics... there's a lot of moments.

[@frompariswithhatred]

cant wait to see the rest of this plate

[@tylernereim8295]

The Maltese Falcone remark is truly inspired to me because as I was reading the book I found myself underlining passages wherein the character Cairo was being feminized by the POV character or did things himself that might be considered feminine. And believe me there's a lot of those moments.

[@jandypimpson]

Just discovered this channel and I. LOVE. IT!!!!

[@leafbladie]

Yes, more of the whole plate!

[@fayeinoue5122]

I have the hugest crush on Lindsay, articulate, insightful, and beautiful!

[@SayHelloHelli]

Pain and gain was actually insanely funny. I was surprised.

[@DamoBloggs]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone balance Cynicism and sincerity so finely as you do Lindsay lol!

[@KerryBuchanan]

Please...Lindsay...give me back my life! I'm spending so many hours binging these awesome videos...