*Rabbi* REACTS to ATHEIST Arguments | EP1: Stephen Fry | Rabbi Rowe Reacts

[@qwert4977]

Everything you say makes me believe in his ideas even more

[@dizzlebizzle8424]

exactly. other than birth, the thing that first made me an atheist is reading the bible and studying religion. the only and final argument they have is faith...believing for no good reason.

[@charliesusterich8744]

I could not agree more buddy

[@homobohemicus]

It is always amazing how weak this gentlemena's arguments are (Mr. Aish)... Somehow he managed to avoid the main point of kids dying in extreme pain and talks about virtual worlds... quite sad really.

[@YosiFrancos]

I'm Jewish, and you just made me more of an atheist.

[@calmcopingcopingskillsforc7457]

Nobody can make you anything, take a bit of responsibility for your life.

[@papichuckle]

Casually defended bone cancer in children

[@HeshArt]

Thank you for your views in this subject... I now believe Fry even more.

[@whycreatemorehumans]

Well it was brave of you to take on stephen fry but you basically said that you dont know what your god is up to which is no answer to his point. The god of judaism seems to be just like stephen describes him. Cruel callous sadistic and crazy and you get him off the hook by saying that it will all work out in the world to come. Sorry but it just doesn't cut.

[@RabbiDanielRowe]

Thanks for this. I think that the key point is that if someone is going to make an argument against the existence of an Infinite loving Creator based on things happening in the world that could not possibly be the will of such a Creator, then the burden of proof would rest with one who wants to argue that there really is an actual inconsistency between events in the world and the way that the world would need to be if such a Creator created it. Often the difference between whether something is good or bad can rest on perspective. For instance as a parent I have found myself doing things that my younger children were convinced were terrible tings but that from my perspective were really good things for them. As an example a very young child may have a ball that runs into the road and being very young and lacking all context they can emotionally relate to that ball the way that we might relate to all our loved ones. They might totally lack our perspective - that they are in danger, that the ball is replaceable etc. So the difference between whether something is good or bad could shift dramatically based on a difference in understanding and context. To me it seems that if the God hypothesis is correct, then the gap between a child's perspective and an adults would be nothing compared to the gap between our perspective ( a few decades, knowing a few hundred people max etc) and that of such a Creator (seeing the impact of every act on this life and any afterlife, across all of history past and future etc) would necessarily be so vast, that things that seem to us to be terrible could look radially different from such a perspective. So I do agree that there are lots of painful things in this world. Apart from my own personal experience of pain and loss, as a Rabbi I spend a lot of time with people going through painful things. I am not naiive that there is real pain in the world. But I do not see that as a disproof of the question of God's existence, like SF and many others think.

[@gideongoldwater8284]

Very true. I also feel like without this perspective you speak about, its very difficult to impose human definitions of good and bad onto a "God" who (if they exist) was the originator of such standards. In other words, if there isnt a God then who cares and if there is...then your point has to be considered!

[@bbasmdc]

@@RabbiDanielRowe So you're saying that, for all we know, god could be giving a child bone cancer because, by doing so, it makes things better for other people? Kind of like the Kobayashi Maru exercise in Star Trek. Except you don't have any actual evidence that this is the case, right? It's literally a guess. And if it's about "the good of the many" then how does the fact that god did nothing to save 6 million Jews, about 5.7 million other Soviet civilians, 3 million Soviet PoWs, etc. from Nazi atrocities during the Holocaust tally with "the good of the many"? I suppose him deciding that an occasional innocent child's entire life will be lived in agony might be defensible, but when it comes to ignoring the plight of millions of people, again and again over the course of history then that doesn't really stack up, sorry.

[@julienielsen3746]

So you are as foolish as Fry. You call God cruel and crazy instead of blaming satan for the suffering on the earth. Stop blaming God for satan's evil.

[@julienielsen3746]

@@bbasmdc Sickness is of satan. God is our Healer and does not want us to be sick or suffer. Stop blaming God for the things that happen to people because of satan.

[@Peter-dr9ch]

This video missed out one part of that video but a very important part which was that Fry was asked “and you think you’d get in (to heaven) saying that?” And Fry said something along the lines of “I don’t know but I wouldn’t want to get in on his (god’s) terms.”

[@thatsthat2612]

And I fully agree with Stephen

[@michacieslak2346]

IF God exists and is all knowing and all mighty then it means two things: - he knows everything - he CAN do everything Ergo, he could create a world where there's no such things as children dying horrible deaths or people murdering each other for fun. And of course let's add to the mix argument that God is all loving, we can conclude that either: - he doesn't exist - he's not all knowing or all mighty - he's not capable of making world with no suffering - he's not all loving Even add to that argument that he 'tests us'. Still - if he knows it all, he knows what I'll do, so again, he's either malevolent or not all knowing.

[@maxmichalik4938]

Maybe he already did create that world. But because His love is infinite he then created additional, less perfect worlds, until he ran out of possible worlds that are still net positive overall.

[@BLew657]

Nice try fella but Stephen Fry talks sense

[@homobohemicus]

Wonderful.. let´s avoid cancer in children, the pain and the suffering and concentrate on whether the gates are pearly or whether it has polished handles.... what a great to start. And your assurance that you know what happens after we die is astounding...

[@fionacarty6647]

I haven't heard of any atheists excusing rape, murder, invasions or other horrors based on their atheists beliefs. Is that religion at work? Is that God's influence?

[@dansegelov305]

A textbook example of how religion completely warps your mind and destroys your humanity.

[@dizzlebizzle8424]

"standard monotheistic thinking" and then you describe an academic view of heaven that the vast majority of actual human beings i've ever interacted with of any faith does not agree with... is this a case like the "standard model" in physics where the actual academic thing is called "standard" even if most humans don't understand physics in that way? edit: nvm i finished the video and you don't even try to make rational arguments and just assert faith over and over while appealing to emotion. i made the mistake of seeing Stephen Fry in the title and assumed you weren't anti-intellectual, my bad.

[@jabbra1837]

So basically, what I'm getting from this. Is that suffering is fine, because it'll all make sense in the end... But then you tell us that you have no idea what the end actually is... All I'm hearing is, "i have no idea how to explain this, but who's cares because it'll all magically sort itself out" 🤷🏻

[@infernalsymphonytv2928]

'Projection of self onto God' pretty much sums up the reason humans invented Gods in the first place

[@actionmark7213]

Wow you really made me believe in Stephen Fry's points way more. All you did was Firstly talk about an imaginary situation with God, then quote a verse. None of this is knowledge based in evidence therefore helpful to no one. You actually prove a lot of points Stephen made in the past that you cant argue with a religious person because they have imagination and Lies from a book they believe to be true (but in fact is not) on there side therefore any rational point is invalid to a guy like you. Your mind is too Closed Aish UK

[@davestableford1516]

Oh dear. He often started a sentence by saying "I don’t know . . .. . " but then went on to state his ideas as factual. He was a child using a peashooter against a tank.

[@davethomas2605]

How can you wave away bone cancer in children by saying that isn't the end? Why should they have to suffer through that anyway? That's what's evil, God could have just not willed cancer into existence?

[@comeasyouare4545]

I love the title of this video. It points out a flaw in theist logic. Atheism doesn't require a counter argument. Theist present their argument, or claim. of a god. Atheism is not being convinced. Not being convinced and stating the reasons for not being convinced is not a counter claim. So no there are no worst atheist arguments, because there are none.

[@RabbiDanielRowe]

That could be true in theory, but in practice there are arguments made both in favour of theism and against it. An argument against the coherence of claims for the existence of God amounts to an argument for belief in no God ie. an argument for atheism. There are lots of positions that involve denying assertions of things, and yet they often have arguments to support such a position. Take the debate between realists and anti-realists in philosophy. Realists (or platonists) argue that entities like numbers actually do exist, since (amongst other arguments) our best scientific theories make use of them. Anti-realists or nominalists make counter-arguments and then active arguments against realism. So the fact that a position is based on denying-that-something-is-the-case does not necessarily mean that people will not make arguments for that position.

[@comeasyouare4545]

@@RabbiDanielRowe I wouldn't call them arguments I would call them pointing out the flaws in the theist argument. Atheism is seen by theist as a counter claim, but it's just pointing out why the theist argument isn't convincing. Oh! there are debates, but if you watch them the atheist is always pointing out why he is not convinced. The atheist might give reasons for not being convinced, but I've yet to hear one argue that there is in fact no god.

[@bbasmdc]

@@RabbiDanielRowe I'm not sure your second sentence is correct. It's not just about the existence of a god, it's the fact that most monotheistic religions insist that god is both personal and benevolent. As soon as you start insisting that then you have to explain why he allows so much evil in the world - especially against defenceless and innocent people. Rabbi Rowe's arguments are not especially convincing, sorry. I've heard lots rationalisations from Christians trying to pitch what is basically "god moved in mysterious ways" - in other words "stop asking awkward questions we don't have proper answers to".

[@bbasmdc]

@@comeasyouare4545 I'm not sure any atheist would try to prove there is no god, because once a theist makes an outlandish claim then it's impossible to prove it's incorrect. In fact, I will now reveal that I am the personification of god on earth. Prove me wrong.

[@comeasyouare4545]

@@bbasmdc No! You prove you're god. See I don't have to disprove anything. The claim of truth is not in the claim, period.

[@Rabbiz]

How would you know what going to heaven would be like?

[@sertic1]

Also, saying his point re. human tragedy and bone cancer in kids etc., is irrelevant because believers don't consider death to be the end is, I'm sorry to say, unintentionally quite insensitive. This devaluing of lived experience as a consequence of belief in an afterlife is the very same mentality that has allowed many atrocities to be committed throughout history, in religions' name, just as these atrocities (and innumerable other instances of bigotry etc.) have been supported, or without critique, by many followers of religion despite often being committed by the fringe.

[@missyotsuba8508]

I couldn't really make it past your first point. You're trying to argue against a question that was not asked. Typical straw man arguments. The question was "suppose there were pearly gates"... Right let's suppose there are and then what... Oh wait, you just said that there is no pearly gates and then went off on a tangent talking about things that are not relevant to the initial question. That's like me saying to you, "suppose I go to KFC to buy you some food, what would you like?" and then you replying "Ooohh please buy me a Big Mac as there is no KFC, actually I like my Bigmac without pickles on. Pickles from Maccy D's are awful but I like those big ones you get in a jars from the deli. There's a great deli in the town I grew up in"... What????? You're not answering the question. I said 'suppose' I went to KFC to buy you food. Do you see what you're doing? Of coarse you do. It's an idiots response to any argument and it only works on other idiots.

[@bbasmdc]

Kudos for trying, but nothing you say makes any sense to me. And I think that's because it all has to start from the premise that the "invisible god" actually exists. Then we are told to accept that our lives are basically just expendable in order to return the world to the state of the garden of eden. I think this is why religious arguments have so little merit because it all just seems to be a rationalisation. I'm sorry - life is not a rehearsal. This is all we get and it's heart breaking to realise that some people have a much easier time of it than others.

[@julienielsen3746]

We either go to Heaven or hell when we die. God wants all to be saved, but it's our choice to make. God created us to live forever, and we will. We will not just cease to exist. You will live on throughout eternity. But, it's your choice where you will be spending eternity. I know I'm going to Heaven because I have received Jesus as my Lord and Savior. When all who are willing to receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior are saved, then Jesus will return and take all who are saved to Heaven. And after judgement day we who are saved will come back to a new perfect earth, and populate it. Then we will go on to populate the other planets. That is what God created them for. It's all real stuff.

[@bbasmdc]

@@julienielsen3746 What if you chose the wrong god? What if Muslims or Hindus, or Jews are right? Or more likely what if you are all wrong and when we die there is nothing. Frankly I think nothing is preferable to an eternity with a bunch of religious folks :-)

[@freethinker--]

Religious brainwashing stops critical thinking and deniel of facts, it's sad to see adults less knowledgeable and dismissive on evolution than my children.

[@Peter-dr9ch]

@@julienielsen3746 how does a two day old child that dies choose to go to heaven or hell?

[@julienielsen3746]

@@Peter-dr9ch Babies, and young children will go to Heaven if they die, because they are too young to make that decision themselves. That's why in the church I go to we don't baptize them, because they are too young to make that choice. We dedicate them to God, and the pastor and congregation pray for them, and their family. When they are old enough ,13, then they are old enough to make their own decisions concerning salvation and baptism.

[@grahamcox662]

Thankyou Rabbi for making me an even more convinced atheist.

[@keithhealing1115]

But the only reason Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden was because they, in absolute innocence and not understanding the difference between good and evil, chose to eat the fruit that gave them the understanding of the world. God might have mentioned to Adam not to eat the fruit (he didn't tell Eve) - and Adam watched as Eve ate because he had no idea of what might happen. God then punished them IN ETERNITY for choosing something of which consequences that they had no understanding. That is evil. Punishing someone - and all their descendants - for making a choice based in absolute ignorance is capricious and evil.

[@TRexMetalGuru]

Everything you said has 100% convinced me that Stephen Fry is correct. You said absolutely nothing at all to convince me otherwise

[@thehangingbadger]

Sorry if I have misinterpreted what you said.. but at the start it seemed that you justified pain and suffering in children because death is not the end. Please correct me if i'm wrong.. but it sounds psychotic

[@ricktrendle6796]

If you want to know why people see god as an unjust human like being then just read any bible, that is how religion portrays him. The religious people will say the the Bible is true and in the same breath that you shouldn't interpret it literally.

[@lewisclout2411]

I appreciate you making the video but you accomplished literally nothing. All you did was ramble on about things you think. Not things that we know like Stephan did.

[@alandoyle8880]

There is nothing that you are saying that has any proof whatsoever especially about afterlife give me some proof? You can’t.

[@julienielsen3746]

You'll have proof someday. And if you haven't received Jesus as your Lord and Savior before you die, it will be too late for you. I pray that you will receive salvation before it's too late.

[@alandoyle8880]

@@julienielsen3746 total rubbish

[@bbasmdc]

@@julienielsen3746 The gentleman who made this video is Jewish and thus he would disagree with your position.

[@julienielsen3746]

@@alandoyle8880 Yes. Everything Fry said is rubbish.

[@alandoyle8880]

@@julienielsen3746 I just can’t understand why people still believe in gods???? It’s complete insanity it’s not hard to work out if you look back through history it’s all completely made up. The Catholic Church has enough money to wipe out world hunger overnight and still have 90% of their wealth still.

[@Zardagbum]

Are you really telling me you know what will happen to me when I die? When did you die and howcome you're still here?

[@ct5625]

You didn't confront or even challenge any of the points Mr. Fry made, you simply insisted "he's wrong" based on your own belief in God. If your God is all powerful why force children to suffer? It's a very simple question but you just rambled your way around it because you cannot answer it without admitting that Mr. Fry is right. You cannot simultaneously claim that God is all powerful and all loving, but also inflicts such suffering on the innocent.

[@jyrkisalminen2928]

Is this guy the guy who knows what he is talking about? Or is he the authority, who can comment? No.

[@hermijon1]

Off course you you only showed what you wanted to show about this interview. Go watch his arguments at a debate against the catholic Church.

[@ChickenFriedDryEraseMarkers]

You said that his point is assuming that God has human like limitations. God is supposedly all good and all powerful. One cannot be all good and all powerful and create a world with suffering. There does not need to be minimum of suffering to appreciate good. Good can be good on its own. I don't eat chocolate and am more grateful for it because I in some way had to work for it. No, I'm more stressed. I enjoy the chocolate because the chocolate is good. That's the good. To think the bad to get to chocolate is good is completely irrational and the incorrect way to look at philosophical morality.

[@kstar1489]

Hard to say away unimaginable suffering, not just painless death, with heaven. Why have the suffering for the innocent at all? That’s a disgusting excuse that justifies evil acts. “Whatever has caused this pain and evil in the world” uh, you mean your hypothetical god? And the way you skipped over the creature who’s life is to blind children, but of a cop out. Why would we not project the morality the god gave us? Why would we just assume the god causing unimaginable pain through no fault of the human is ok or beyond the stupid capacity of the brain he gave us? That’s just ridiculous, and undermines the drive to make a world a better place.

[@brianjohnston3707]

You did a whole lot of talking but said so little in response 😤

[@coljagman5441]

You avoided the question. no surprise. Your not talking about heaven your talking about hell, conscious without a body forever please not that! Sounds awful.

[@MisterItchy]

Whether there are or are not 'pearly gates' is absolutely irrelevant. You are making claims that you know that all we need is the perspective of your god to understand why all this 'evil' happens. You have no clue about what god or heaven is like. I believe that you believe it but it is just a belief ... not a fact.

[@j.1174]

Sooooh ..Cancer.. Thank you God?

[@j.1174]

Palestine...?

[@Mac-vy1rv]

Yes, I totally agree with you 夏富晟, and Stephen Fry, too. This person has done everything other than explain the very issue why evil is permitted and really like people like this merely elastacise religion to fit reality. They give carefully crafted explanations regarding useless metaphors like the pearly gates, which is obvious that’s all it was in the interview - a metaphor. I think Isaiah 45:7 explains it all, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things” Really, it’s futile to try and expect progress, a bit like trying to convince a flat earther that the earth isn’t flat…

[@connormc5809]

I think you should delete this video 😂 because I'd turn atheist from this reaction alone

[@pmh9966]

Absolute nonsense...

[@lm2720]

You don't even believe the bullshit you're spouting 😂

[@Ali920a]

Deluded rabbi

[@julienielsen3746]

Sickness and evil things happen to people because of satan, not God. God is our Healer, and wants us healed and healthy, and to protect us. If we sin we are keeping God form being able to protect us from satan harming us. That is why God hates sin. He loves us and wants to be able to protect us. We are supposed to pray for others and do what God guides us to do to help them. Fry sounds like an angry child angry at God because he probably also does not believe in satan, and that satan put evil on the earth through the sin of Adam. So, he blames God for satan's evil.

[@actionmark7213]

If god was truly almighty as you all say he could stop all this from happening. That is was (ALL MIGHTY) means. Able to do anything! Im sorry that your mind is closed like this Julie. Maybe one day you will be your own person and judge things yourself with the Real evidence that is in front of your face. It truly saddens me that religion has closed your mind like this

[@julienielsen3746]

@@actionmark7213 There are spiritual laws, just as there are laws of nature, and laws of physics, etc. that if things aren't done a certain way there will be consequences. Because satan conned Adam out of the amount of authority over the earth that God gave to Adam, satan has that amount of authority over the earth and over those who are not saved. So, because of that God can't just do everything you think He should be able to do. Not without harming us and His creation. That's why God sent Jesus to the cross to take our sins upon His body, so we could receive Jesus and be saved, and repent of our sins if we sin again, and receive God's healing power and be healed, and much more that was done for us through Jesus sacrifice for us.

[@actionmark7213]

@@julienielsen3746 then he is not almighty? So the Bible is lying? See you are just talking about what you read in the bible as if that's meant to mean something. It doesn't. The bible is a fictional story never backed up in fact. In fact the people who wrote it never knew god or Jesus personally, it was written long after a man named Jesus died. I hope one day you can see the wonder before your eyes and not what other people write. You will feel free if you just open your mind to other possibilities. It's fine that you believe in God just open your mind to what others have to say and open your mind to science and facts because they will never go away.

[@julienielsen3746]

@@actionmark7213 Those who wrote the Bible were men of God who listened to God speak to them in their hearts/spirits , and wrote what He told them. It is God's Word. I hear God speak to me in my heart/spirit. Not in my mind ( satan will speak to us in our minds) and I don't hear Him with my ears. I pray that God will open your heart and your mind to hear His Word when it's preached to you. I ask Him to send the right laborers to you that you will listen to that will preach you His word concerning salvation, and anything else you need to hear from His Word. And I pray that you will listen and receive Jesus as your Lord and Savior, and be Blessed. In Jesus Name I pray. Amen. Science does change. They have found things out many times that they found later were wrong. And I pray someday that they will find out that God's Word was telling them the truth all along.

[@actionmark7213]

@@julienielsen3746 @Julie Nielsen oh no I feel so sorry for you that you have been indoctrinated since you where young like this. So much so that you can't use your brain because you think Satan speaks to you through it? That is really sad. But yet again like I said your just talking imagination talk with no actual evidence. Everything your saying right now has no meaning. Just saying god speaks to your heart means nothing. You are blind to the real world because of these beliefs. You are blocked off from having real rational conversations. Science does change yes that's the point! When new Real evidence is put in front of us we change! Like all humans should it's rational thought! Science is about using the real evidence before your own eyes. Science changes only because it gets more and more accurate with new evidence. So thanks for proving science is better. If it did not change it would be wrong like the bible. The world is ever changing.