Hunting Arrow KE Loss at 36 yards

[@chadk3573]

Not going to lie, I don't know how you held your tounge when Mr. Nockon said he didn't care about penetration and a full pass through. I lost some faith in him when he said that! That's like spending $100k on an engine, gears, transmission, turbo charges and then saying tire grip isn't that important. lol 😂

[@shaneshonda]

Accuracy is more important than a pass through. Because if you miss it don't matter if you shot a bowling ball

[@km6731]

@@shaneshonda if you miss the vitals and get a pass through, that deer will heal up much better and cleaner. It's always better to get a pass through whether you hit or miss.

[@millertalbot]

Nobody is arguing that accuracy isn’t key… but as anyone who’s actually shot at living targets knows, the target moves after the arrow is released and before impact. What you were aiming at is no longer in the same place when the arrow gets there. I fail to understand why Dudley annd his acolytes don’t get this!

[@reidzr2s10]

Those people are just butt hurt that they can’t brag about how fast their bow and arrow setup is anymore. Being fast is not the holy grail of bow hunting.

[@michaelbushey2787]

There's give and take in both.

[@Freezer003]

Conservation of momentum, elastic vs inelastic collisions, derivatives of KE and Momentum. You can't beat the physics on this stuff. Good work Troy.

[@jamesstockton3777]

This is my go to channel for arrows and broadhead info. Very informative, I love it!

[@skeezixzx9r]

To get speed before and after impact, you can use a large backdrop with a known size of grid, or even just vertical lines, and a high-speed camera. You know your frame-rate and can calculate speed off how many frames it takes to cross your known distance. A large enough back-drop gives enough room to calculate pre-impact speed and the speed of the arrow after it has completely traversed the carcass.

[@ThirdLawPair]

Yes! A high-speed camera is a much better measurement tool than a radar for this purpose.

[@300blackout4]

I was going to suggest this exact same method, the show Mythbusters used this method extensively

[@The_Judge300]

I have solved this very easily and in a very inexpensive way. I have tested this multiple times and I just set up a chronograph behind the carcass to measure the speed of the arrow shortly after it left the carcass. And of course having measured the speed shortly before entering it as well. Works very well.

[@michaeltosser7363]

8 or 9 years ago, I tumbled onto Grizzlystik and Dr Ashby's work. I've been a believer ever since - All it took was watching how much more my EFOC's pushed through a black hole target than my more 'traditional' speedies. ... Almost like the ancients who used longbows to poke holes in steel sheets knew that a relatively heavy, slow arrow penetrated better than a light, fast one.

[@cjherriman7226]

So when living out west my personal goal was to find an arrow more in the middle to top of the curve. I am blessed with a 31.5” draw length along with a love for math, physics, engineering and all of those wonderful things. There were hours spent doing this in a long hand way of shooting and observing the results with differing spines, wild FOC, crazy vanes and whatever else I could dream up.

[@moe_2412]

Can’t believe this still needs to be explained.

[@glennl9630]

Agreed 👍

[@tjb50cal]

ignore the critics and keep up the truthful attitude and testing

[@swordinstone2k7]

shot a spike elk this year @ 45 yards w/ a 525gr arrow, VPA 3 blade hand sharpened. Arrow passed thru and look perfect aside from a little dirt. Ended up shooting THE SAME arrow at the same elk a few minutes later (long story), and it passed thru again (30ish yards the 2nd time)

[@b.s.2194]

I've been watching a lot of your content for about a week I guess. You're a nut. This one made me subscribe. Im 46, my son is 9. We both just got our 1st bows. Grateful to have found the Ranch. I don't know too much about hunting or archery, but at least now at the Ranch, we won't be wasting time learning misinformation. Thanks for taking the time to educate.

[@RanchFairy]

[e-mail] - holler with questions. I'll help you.

[@papaschuette]

I'm getting closer to adult arrows. Limited funds stopped me from upgrading. I did, however, add 68 grains to the front of my arrows and cut 3/4 of an inch off of them. Went from 413gr and 9.6% FOC to 469gr and 15.1% FOC. Added 25gr to the tip weight and 38gr to the insert. It's too late to switch for this season, so I'll have to wait until after the first of the year.

[@bowhuntingleprechaun5268]

That's a good start!!! Just keep inching along a Iittle bit at a time!!

[@tray22]

It will for sure make a difference. I did the same thing but I was already heavy splined. I also trimmed a few inches off my arrow because I left them factory length. That helps with spline and foc.

[@tracychilds3546]

Yall just remember you don't want to start with a heavy grains per inch arrow start light grains per inch and start adding weight from there to get maximum foc without getting to crazy on the weight of overall arrow

[@papaschuette]

@@bowhuntingleprechaun5268 After the season is over, I'm switching it up completely. Going from a Gold Tip Hunter XT 340 to either a Victory Rip TKO 300 spine or Sirius Supernova SD 300 spine. Both are .204 diameter. Then get the test kit and go from there.

[@bowhuntingleprechaun5268]

@@papaschuette that's awesome 😏 I can vouch for the system it works unbelievably

[@PORVETTE]

Ever consider using a high speed camera to calculate arrow speed? Back in the day, the Mythbusters show always had a painted scale set up behind their experiments and a high speed camera with a known frames per second video. Simply count the frames the arrow takes to travel across the scale. You can calulate KE lost impact with this method by setting up a scale in the "Ranch Fairy test lab" and recording the shot with a high speed camera.

[@mikeguy9668]

Lots of money bro

[@papaschuette]

@@mikeguy9668 Lots is right.

[@mybeardlovesbeer]

Thank you so much for your content! I only wish I had found you a few months ago. I just started checking my arrow setup in the last few weeks, and I'm regretting taking the advice of my local archery shop on arrow setup. Granted it has been several years since getting new arrows but I let them recommend twizzler sticks because I didn't know any better. Now it's hunting season and I fully understand why my broadheads don't track nearly as well as my field points. Thank you for opening my eyes and giving me the knowledge I need! I can't wait to have a conversation with the bow tech at that shop......I hope their views have changed in the intervening years! If not, I'll have to become my own bow tech!!!

[@dan2496]

Also, air temperature affects drag. Colder temperature creates more drag. Great info. I always knew this but never thought to much about it. So now I go with 500+ gr for hunting.. Again great info.

[@YoureSoVane]

I've actually been taking atmospheric data when I do my lab radar testing. It barely matters. Huge swings like 36°F to 90°F might change speed at target by about three fps? I gotta check my spreadsheet again but it's not much. Barometric pressure is what matters. Nothing has anywhere near the effect of pressure. Altitude affects pressure, but so do storms. Pressure and wind are the only factors that you'll actually notice without a Doppler. Edit: normal variation in temperature is less important than pressure, but seasonal changes in temperature mean a lot. Summer, you will have different sight tapes than winter even if the barometric pressure is the same.

[@-_-hi8964]

​@@YoureSoVanewhat about say -20C?

[@YoureSoVane]

@@-_-hi8964 I don't tend to stay outside when it's that cold. Difference between 90F and 20F is 4fps at 80 yards, assuming 560gr arrow at 280fps at launch. At -20F (basically -20C) it's another 1.5fps. I built a calculator for this in my spreadsheets.

[@-_-hi8964]

@@YoureSoVane thanks If I didn't go outside when it's cold I wouldn't be able to go out for 8 months of the year hottest day I've had here in the last for years was 29C.

[@YoureSoVane]

@@-_-hi8964 Important to note that this is just based on air resistance. If your limbs bend slower in the cold, this can be exacerbated.

[@mikeb6555]

RF, all these FACTS... what next? the world isn't FLAT? LOVE your channel, all the MATH and the FACTS just make me smile

[@DavidBallantyne-y3g]

"OMG" Ranch Fairy I pissed myself when i found you also love your childhood ruined book covers , Love your channel keep up the good work from Down under Australia.

[@blainclatworthy5423]

I love the Math, when the subject is the launching of Arrow, Bolts or Freedom Seeds

[@aaronhoppock2726]

Hi RF let me start off by saying I like what you do and the way you act and talk on your videos. The fact that you back up what you say with facts is awesome not sure how anyone argues with it.Just want to point out that a couple of the ke loss lines 589 and 718 are off I know it's only by one but that's gonna give the nay sayers ammo against you.Also it could have been from rounding decimals but can't tell from the sheet.Once again thank you for your work and videos I enjoy watching them.

[@RanchFairy]

Yeah, I gotta correct that.

[@kountzer0]

@RanchFairy... Man you're not gonna reach the foil hat folks when you keep saying Tinfoil. 😂 We all use Aluminum foil, of course. 🤣 Just kidding congrats on 10lb largemout! Tight lines and keep it up as long as you can stand it please.

[@bennypapino3670]

I was stropping broadheads in silence but now i got something to listen to😂

[@rohlfing63]

You could use a conventional chronograph (shooting through the sticks) on the back side of the hog carcass with the labradar data on the entry side (or another conventional chrony on the front. I have used my old chrony for all kinds of stuff - bullets, arrows, kid's rockets, etc

[@williamrudd2571]

RF, thanks for the video(s). The way to get the speed of an arrow as it exits a pig is using a high speed camera with a background that has distance measurements. The math seemed straightforward using this method when Mythbusters did it on one of their episodes. I think they were testing bird strikes on an airplane simulations that used frozen and unfrozen store bought turkeys. Happy Hunting.

[@henrybrylowski1332]

Ok I couldn't breath for a minute with the tinfoil hat! 🤣🤣🤣🤣☺️

[@ScottWConvid19]

If you make a frame for the hat to lift it above your head and spread the wings out, I think that it would hide your heat signature from any IR detectors in unmanned drones or aircraft during the upcoming state of emergency

[@african7498]

No matter how good or bad your form is, the maths (facts) stay the same. Anyone arguing maths or physics is simply showing their ignorance. Great work - hard FACTS!!

[@galileopotato167]

Nice hat Mr. Fairy 🫡 enjoyed the content.

[@jhuntnfish6872]

Troy just a thought for capturing speed. Put a 1" grid up behind the thorax to a high speed camera capture how fast it moves past and compute.

[@sethwinkel5721]

I’d second that.

[@judefuselier]

Heard the Cleared Hot Podcast with Dudley and he was very salty about arrow weight. He seems shaken!!!😂😂😂😂😂

[@andrewomalley2688]

For your post-pig setup, that sounds like the perfect setup for a high-speed camera. Put a measurement board somewhere in the frame for scale, the measure how many frames it takes the arrow to move a certain distance. Frames/frames per second of the camera) = seconds to cover set distance. Check out a lot of mythbusters episodes or the slowmo guys stuff. at post-pig speeds you don't even need that much frame rate.

[@Wickedywack]

Came here to say this. You don't even need a whole board, you could do it with two sticks so long as the sticks have parallel edges.

[@YoureSoVane]

Here's a fun analysis from my data. Drag of a 500gr+ arrow, as long as it's a .203 or smaller ID, is almost entirely linear. Lighter arrows will need a much better form factor, because they'll start experiencing quadratic drag. Because arrows are so long the friction is pretty much the only factor in slowing down the arrow. Frontal area plays a minuscule role for 500gr+ arrows at 290fps or slower

[@stuartbrown2189]

i did a test on my setup similar to this a couple weeks ago with my chronograph with a 496 grain arrow launch was 298 fps 20 yards was 292 30 yards was 285 fps and 40 yards was 275 fps so my setup from launch to 40 yards lost 14.5 foot pounds which seems to be losing more ke than what your test is showing but im not upset with the results i just wanted to know what my setup was putting out. great video!

[@jeremymeyer891]

Can you explain how you ended up with net ke loss of 6...79-72 is 7... in just curious. Thanks👍

[@RanchFairy]

Because I screwed up.

[@errollittlefield8450]

Troy , saw you on Meateater yesterday. So cool. Hunting with Janis.

[@williamgaines9784]

Ranch Conquistador! You can use frame rate to estimate the exit velocity. If one felt kinetic energy is what kills the target animal, they should just use field points or even bare shafts. Momentum is much easier to calculate and, although I have not studied arrow flight much, a stiffer, heavier arrow will overcome the drag of the air better than a flimsy light one. When the arrow encounters exponentially more resistance (upon striking a flesh target), the stiffer, heavier arrow will, again, outperform the flimsy light. The sharper and pointier the arrow head, the better it will penetrate as well. Mechanical heads have potential to make broader cuts, but there is loss of energy in that mechanical action. Velocity is important to reduce the arc of flight, but if within a few feet per second, the momentum is with the heavier for longer. A better measure of arrow efficiency might be based on trajectory divided by a penetrative drop test[how far the point penetrates a medium when dropped from a fixed height -since all would have the same impact velocity]. Interesting subject. There may be "better" mouse traps, but the old ones still do the trick.

[@jwjenkins421]

Slow mo camera with a grid behind it in the view of the camera. You can then determine how fast the arrow is entering the pig, and then exiting the pig.

[@deanbrantley]

The biggest 2 influencers to date for me the last few years is RF and Lusk Archery Adventures. I did the heavy arrow stuff and it’s not for me. I killed more deer than I can remember with 350 grains and a 2.5 Vortex 20 years ago. With the improvements in broadhead designs and materials due to those 2 guys I mentioned light weight speed arrows are more efficient than ever. For me it’s about hair popping sharp tool steel heads.

[@dannypetersen1138]

It’s funny that the guy who has a problem with your content, shoots a 530 grain arrow, but won’t agree with you. Lol 😂 😂😂

[@jasonard7227]

well yea cause troy is not shooting in a perfect stance or perfect form and didnt compete in archery so he cant know anything...I mean if your not shooting 100+ yards at a tac event then your a nobody.

[@ranhen8951]

Man Gold Tip was talking major shit on his page bro, keep up the good work

[@simonsmith9363]

Ask The Slo-Mo guys to film it with their high speed camera, they regularly work out the speeds of all sorts of projectiles, and they can do it from side on.

[@Kurtdog63]

My understanding is that KE is force- at impact. Momentum is force- over a period of time. Heavy moving objects have greater potential to penetrate because they exert force for a longer period of time. Heavier objects are harder to slow down and therefore it takes- more time- to slow them down, and this- longer time factor- produces a higher potential to penetrate i. e. a higher potential to continue moving forward. Even if someone doesn't want to shoot a really heavy arrow, because of arrow velocity loss, etc. if they simply choose to shoot a 500 grain arrow instead of a 450 grain arrow, their potential for increased penetration can be quite dramatic even with just a 50 grain increase in arrow weight provided both arrows are tuned to fly straight.

[@RanchFairy]

Please stop with all the facts!!!

[@Kurtdog63]

But they're not my own.... hee hee.@@RanchFairy

[@blainclatworthy5423]

For your study of the KE contacting the Pig Ribcage and the KE upon existing. I think you need 2 Lab Radar. (one on each side of the Pig facing Downrange)

[@YoureSoVane]

Second one won't be able to trigger. The arrow leaving the pig won't be loud enough. Fun fact: the lab radar really can't detect the arrow until it's about 13 yards away if you start one foot to the right. I wouldn't shoot my $600+ device any closer than that, if that close at all. For the Doppler to read the arrow, it would have to continue over 20 yards after the pig.

[@forgerat]

High speed camera with a scale behind the target would be able to capture speed. For example if the high speed camera shows the arrow pass 1m in ..05sec you then have a speed that can be compared.

[@heithwalsh5437]

Use two lab radars one in front of pig and the second one behind the pig so you could have reading on both sides

[@YoureSoVane]

Said this in another comment, but the lab radar can't detect the second arrow. The arrow doesn't intersect the beam for a while. The closer you are to shooting the lab radar, the closer the beam interests. Do you feel lucky? Because less than one foot away doesn't intersect for about 13 yards. Also it needs to be louder than the bow at launch to trigger the second device.

[@ryanr6656]

I need one of those hats

[@twc6771]

Another excellent video with very good information for those who choose to use it keep them coming, and as the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink .Have you fish east or west Matagorda bay for those sow trout?

[@shanebeasley213]

I don't think it's the math or the science that people disagree on. The question is not how do I get the most KE but how much KE do I need to get the job done? That's where the opinions and the differences in arrow set ups come in.

[@guitarq359]

Troy’s point is, why wouldn’t you want to maximize KE and momentum since those metrics relate more to penetration?

[@ThirdLawPair]

@@guitarq359 The limitation of Troy's point is that there's a threshold where more KE won't make the deer any more dead. So, if you need more KE to get some specific effect such as more bone-breaking power, more reliable performance on your mechanicals (which he doesn't use anyway), better suitably for extra-large game (cape buffalo etc.), then it's worth it to make compromises elsewhere to boost that KE. If your preferred broadheads already penetrate enough for your game of choice, then those compromises won't change the end result.

[@guitarq359]

@@ThirdLawPair It’s true that there’s a point of diminishing return. However, Troy isn’t recommending that everyone shoots 1,000 grain arrows. He’s said in previous videos that 550-750 is the sweet spot for most hunters.

[@ThirdLawPair]

@@guitarq359 Exactly. It's not just diminishing return. Once you get passthrough, it's no additional return. So, he doesn't mean you need to "maximize" KE; he means you need to "optimize" KE. (Though he does sometimes say that more KE is always better, even once you have more than enough to get the job done. Nobody is perfect.)

[@shanebeasley213]

@@ThirdLawPair exactly my point. Once you have enough energy then why keep losing arrow trajectory for more KE. The difference in opinions is what is enough KE to get the job done?

[@50magz]

Welp my results October 6th in indiana swhacker 2.5inch 75lb 29 inch draw 500 grain arrow buck field dressed 220lbs straight shoulder shot far forward buck ran 30 yards died

[@hawknives]

Hi Terry, Is the EZ-V still a good "hunting" site option, in your opinion? Thinking on sticking one on the bow. Thank You. Christ Bless! Hawk.

[@joshuarussell1658]

Love your videos, just discovered your stuff and I've always been a fixed blade guy, just got some grim reapers 3 blades to try. I remember you talking about sharpness in some of your past videos. Why don't you get a sharpness tester and start logging your before and after sharpness on different broadheads you shoot.

[@mjc_208]

Have you looked into using super slow motion cameras to measure speed. The Smarter Everyday guy does some “mathing” with slow motion cameras to calculate the speed of a baseball launched out of a cannon I think. Using one to check speed after it goes through something would maybe work.

[@Vondoobie]

Id be curious to see whay you could come up with if you compared the same arrow being lainched at different velocities. Like a 550 grain arrow from a 60# 70# and 80# bow. Or different draw lengths.

[@YoureSoVane]

I'm doing just that! Stay tuned, because I'll share it with Troy when I'm done. You'll have to help me convince him to show it.

[@Vondoobie]

@seanyoung1875 very cool. I'll keep an eye out for it. I'd like to see isolated effects of arrow speed on penetration. Especially if you could get one arrow to tune to the multiple bows.

[@ixStiffixi]

So I have gone down this rabbit hole myself and took several known people and there setups while using the Sirius arrow speed calculator. MFJJ , Dan (elk shape), Snyder, ranch fairy, and average jack archery. For the most part have a claim at the "best" arrow build. Now each person besides ranch fairy and Snyder (recurve) are shooting top of the line bows. There is a wide range of draw lengths, arrow weights from 450-650 grains, and draw weight. Arrow speed and KE are all over the place for each person. But one thing remains true. Each person is generating .50-.55 slugs per their setup. Yes this is just a test conducted using the Sirius arrow speed calculator. But I find it very interesting that no matter how big the difference is one thing held true and that was momentum. I wonder if to find the "best" all around arrow for YOU. Would be to know your equipment enter the information into the calculator and use that as a starting point. For example my elite Z28 with 70 pounds and a 27 inch draw length generated .58 slugs at 233 fps with a 570 grain arrow. My new bow elite omnia same specs shot the 570 grain arrow at 255fps generating close to .70 slugs. From there I I went with a 545 grain arrow going 265 and still getting .63 slugs. All that being said I think knowing your equipment and then setting an arrow up to compliment the bow and shooter may be the "best" option. Finding that sweet spot of .50 slugs or more with the trajectory you want. That will give you one arrow for all critters. Besides dangerous game.

[@YoureSoVane]

@@Vondoobie Scale it off of KE. For a large majority of target material out there, it's scaled pretty consistently with KE.

[@YoureSoVane]

@@ixStiffixi I don't think slugs, or any metric for momentum, is what matters. I think it's about what you're going to hit. If you're going to hit a hard bone, shoot the heaviest arrow you can tolerate with as much FOC as you can tune. If you're hitting smaller game and softer parts, feel free to shoot lighter and get more out of it.

[@mingsm123]

I guess the next logical question is: What is the necessary KE required to effectively kill a white tail deer (or whatever critter you're hunting). If 64 is adequate (which I think it is), I would prefer the tighter pin gaps and flatter trajectory. Trad guys are killing deer in the 30 KE range. I would really like to see you test that 388g arrow (tipped with a 100 grain stinger or similar type bh) on one of your 18 yard hog hunts.

[@rohlfing63]

The KE required is dependent upon the shot you're taking. A nice pure broadside shot through the ribs and lungs of a whitetail doesn't take a lot, but if you want some margin for those less than perfect angles, then more KE, more momentum is your friend. I hunt the thick stuff and rarely have shots over 25 yards. Decades ago I became a single pin guy, don't regret it at all.

[@mingsm123]

To each their own. I still am interested in what the KE requirement would be to defeat the humerus bone on a white tail is. Personally, I just avoid shooting them there. I like multiple pins out to 40 yards without a rainbow lob to get there. I would much rather be in the 450g neighborhood rather than the 650g. @@rohlfing63

[@RanchFairy]

So, it's just a matter of shot placement. If everything goes right (I've said this for YEARS) you never hit a humerus or a part of a shoulder blade from an elevated position, etc. then most everything works. Clearly it does. Mr. Murphy, wind, being a human, deer jumping the string, deer spinning when you shoot. etc. I don't plan for perfect. Plan B arrows work in Plan A. So as long as it works for you, man, keep rolling. You don' need what I'm promoting. That's great. Keep whacking them.

[@MichaelLakota-vc4tk]

Troy I had to tell you that I went back and forth with “Big Shot”target people. I told them that I was blowing through their 650fps target with ease. Obviously they wanted to know what I was shooting, and I told them my setup. Ravin R26 with 460gr arrows. They did not believe me. So I sent pictures. I was told to use a more blunt target tip! Made no difference…. I told them to shoot similar setup AT DISTANCE and see what happens. By the way my speed was 380fps. Now I’m not a math major but I know at a 380fps launch shooting 35 yrds my arrow speed is well below their target 650fps rating!! I shredded that expensive target in less than a week. It’s Junk unless your arrows are light. Now I don’t consider 460gr heavy but I guess they are!! You can’t argue with results!! Have not found a target other than the dense foam ones that can stop my arrows “ consistently” Thanks. Mike

[@km6731]

I'm sure there's many ways to catch that data. One video I saw has a board in the back with many measured squares so one could measure the distance over time.

[@brandonhudson178]

Terry, it would be cool if you could work with the @smartereveryday guys and have them bring down their high slow motion cameras. You could calculate the arrow speed at exit the way they measure ballistics, using “math” 😂, with that camera. Would be a cool collaboration if your channels could work together.

[@00motoman]

Do you have 2 lab radars to set up one radar at launch and one radar at tge carcass as the arrow passes through the second radar would possibly read *launch * from the pass-through as the arrow exists?

[@rapidrung]

you can put the same traditional chrono on the upstream and downstream side and hopefully the arrows passes through and doesnt smack it and break it.

[@timbousquet1512]

Very good stuff

[@RJ-qq8kb]

Some, maybe many, states have a minimum of 30# draw weight for a legal archery set-up. It would be beneficial to see the same research from 30# up at 5# increments.

[@-_-hi8964]

30 pounds for big game dam it's minimum 25 pounds here for small game like rabbits and grouse in Newfoundland Canada.

[@RJ-qq8kb]

@@-_-hi8964 Here in Mn it’s 30# minimum.

[@-_-hi8964]

@@RJ-qq8kb Only moose, caribou and Black bear here.

[@josephtreadlightly5686]

I was close on the ground one fall to a large bodied buck. I was walking into an area to hunt when I spotted him going into the direction he was going. However the terrain didn't allow me to approach so I did a loop around & he was feeding bigtime so I got close to the area I was going to hunt. But since I had sighted him walking I didn't go to the tree I was going to hunt. I went 50 yards from it where I figured he would expose himself slightly in thick cover. I don't like being on the ground but in my minds eye I thought it was the right approach in my leafsuit. When he got to the spot he stopped & was feeding with his head down. He was half the distance of that 36 yard test range. But his leg closest to me was going back & opposite leg was going forward. Since I was on the ground I shot him low in front of his left leg & the arrow exited tight in his right pit & buried into a dead log 10 feet behind him. He ran very fast for 30 yards & then it was his turn to do a loop around. When he did it he was walking in my direction 20 yards away. Then he bedded & never took another breath. Like he had no air but all kinds of hemorrhage blood inside. The whole event took like 10 seconds. The thistles he ran through had the fuzz which sends the seeds into the air & it kinda looked like snow falling. I knew where I was aiming & hit the spot but I think the head passed through it so effortlessly that i didn't see the fletches as they passed through. If u don't have milkweed like we don't that this thistles thing could work well. Total 570 grain arrow with 275 grains up front. Compound @ 63 #'s with a 250 spine Blackeagle X-Impact which is very solid.

[@sinelocum]

Finally nabbed that 10 pounder! Nice!

[@SpearsUnclaimed]

I read through the comments and it seems to me that the physics-based arguments suggest that heavier arrows, when propelled with the same force as lighter arrows, will have greater momentum and, due to the nature of inelastic collisions, likely greater penetration power. This makes sense when considering the principles of conservation of momentum and the behavior of objects in elastic vs. inelastic collisions. Heavy arrows get the W.

[@walterbrown8293]

What about lab radar to just before your target and then a traditional chrono on the other side? Or a high speed camera with measuring backdrop

[@tylergood113]

Would a slow motion wall and camera work to factor the speed coming out of a rib cage

[@chrisunruh6485]

For speed after passing through you could set up a radar gun on the down range side of the pig. The type they use for baseball or police use. I could be wrong but I think they can capture speed perpendicular or at least traveling towards the radar.

[@MichaelLakota-vc4tk]

My next project is a Ravin R500 fixed blade accuracy with Over kill200 Samurai

[@stevie9361]

Its momentum an slug foot per second. A 350gr produces 89ft lb an .527 slug ft, 480gr 89 ft lb .617 slug ft, 750gr 50ft lb .582 slug ft.

[@jolookstothestars6358]

Its simple, I played softball for years. I had 2 bats one was heavier (not too heavy) my home run bat, the other was my tin can bat for base hits. I could swing for the fence and just get a nice line drive in the gap. The same applies for arrows. You can't get too heavy or you can't swing the bat fast enough to get the correct amount of swing speed. 👍

[@joshuadouglasarchery]

Yeah sorry your comparison is more accurate to changing your draw weight not arrow weight.

[@erniebucher7494]

For the hog rib experiment, could you use 2 lab radars? One to measure the before rib speed and one to measure the speed post rib.

[@juliansmith7950]

Can you shoot towards lab radar? put the pig between radar and the shooter, slightly below line of site.

[@brandonkim8892]

Used to think extreme foc was the way to go until a bad experience with trajectory, long story short my shaft dove into the ground right in front of a small broadside buck although he didnt even flinch when it happenned. Once u try and shoot past 20 yards with anything above 600 grains the trajectory is horrible. Switched back to about 540 grains so i at least have the option of shooting above 20 yards with accuracy instead of just bombing it. Btw i am using a longbow at 54#

[@MikeyWoomer]

In the name of science.. and just curiosity?... just curious. I wonder what a heavy spine lighter weight arrow does. Like a 150/250 spine 400/450ish .. I've always liked the way a heavy spine arrow flew.

[@operationbowops444]

So if I'm shooting 80lbs, 630 grains, 200 spine at 268 fps with 301/2 draw how much kinetic energy am I shooting. And is that a good set up

[@ВладимирПрименко-о5б]

As I understood from the table, an increase in arrow weight by 73 grains leads to the conservation of 1% of energy at a distance of 36 yards. By the way, the foil hat protects against alien radiation.

[@khrhunter]

Chronograph on exit side of rib cage?

[@timgrinage3851]

Can the LAB radar catch the arrow from a more elevated position above? Not direct but pointed down range at a higher angle?

[@YoureSoVane]

Kinda. It measures in line with the direction it's pointed in. So long as the arrow is parallel to the beam, it's fine

[@SirSloop1919]

labradar problem should be easy to solve. Shoot an arrow into a target to obtain the pre-impact speeds. Stick the lab radar next to an elevated pig and shoot through it from a known distance. The lab radar will collect the post impact speeds as a new data set. Put the two data sets together with a picture of a piggy in the middle. Don't miss... chronos have a reputation for being shot LOL. It will be hard to mimic a live pig though as the chest cavity will be full of soft tissue and blood that it has to cut. You'd only be testing the force drop to get through the hide and ribs, twice.

[@MichaelLakota-vc4tk]

Hey Troy I know you’re not a x-bow guy but due to an injury I now am. I did the work to get my arrows basically shooting one hole groups at 30yrds with mine. Here’s my setup-Ravin 29X , arrrow is 520gr. Speed is 393fps with Magnus Stinger killer bee’s. Flight after a lot of dicking around is awesome. So now after getting everything flying perfect and accurate as hell. Also learned to sharpen! What do you think might be a problem or concern for me? Only shooting whitetails. Zombies and lumenocks are the weapon of choice. Crazy momentum and of course KE At launch. Which doesn’t mean shit to me. I would like your or Dr Eds opinion on my setup. I know I have a lot more stored energy but single hole accuracy is there and I don’t want to lose it! Thoughts?? Thanks Mike

[@jaybrown3924]

A slow mo camera and a measured and striped wall to film the arrow against .

[@TradTech]

I said the the same thing the past 40 years bowhunting, if you're worrying about speed and light arrows, never hunt with a recurve and never tell your compound buddies that you shoot sub 250. I've killed over 50 hogs with my recurve, cedar shafts, 2 and 3 blade magnus, rothar, and wenzel woodsmans. All blew through plates on mature big hogs and dumped them within sight. Properly tuned shafts, sharp broadheads that make you bleed looking at them, and perfectly placed shots yield results. 600 gr. arrow out of a 55# recurve produce devastating results. You don't have to go fast.

[@fastcamo]

Build a scale on the exit side like mythbusters and you can accurately measure the speed.

[@daverushia6569]

Was your velocity test done with the exact same bow ? When ever I have tested arrows through my own croon, as the weight goes up, velocity slowly comes down. My K.E. starts to slowly decrease while my momentum creeps up.For this reason I believe you can definitely hit a point of diminishing returns. Am I wrong ?.

[@dallasdobush1378]

Ranch Fairy for president

[@PersonalBestOutdoors]

I suggest this knowing absolutely nothing about how a lab radar works. So forgive me if this isn't a valid suggestion... Could you set the radar up at a higher elevation where it could measure the speed of the arrow before the target, while also getting that reading after the arrow passes through? Or would punting it down above the target essentially at an angle to the ground me with the reading?

[@tomfairbanks5567]

So can you elevate the lab radar high enough to catch the arrow as it penetrates the rib cage? The arrow would still be flying away from you

[@howardrichburg2398]

It would be neat to show the actual FPE of the impact on the target at distance with various weight arrows. Could use some pressure plate thingy and blunt tips so you don't ruin your high dollar target.

[@YoureSoVane]

That could be a really good way to show impact force with higher and lower FOC as well

[@howardrichburg2398]

I'm sold on heavy arrows and high foc. Would like more than my description of impact on target to convince others..

[@YoureSoVane]

@@howardrichburg2398 Have you tried stability in wind? That's been my best example so far

[@howardrichburg2398]

Yes. But the people I would like to educate I don't hunt or shoot with. Do a yt video would be great. I'm not up to speed to do it myself.

[@YoureSoVane]

@@howardrichburg2398 It's on my to-do list, but I never seem to get it shorter lol.

[@chanceforrest3187]

Got a 10 pounder, nice!

[@shootingatshadow]

Use the old school optical chronographs and set one behind it and in front of the pig.

[@02LM7]

The funny thing about KE is all the arrows are within a few ft lbs of each other, but calculate the momentum of each arrow and it’s a difference story.

[@RanchFairy]

And 100% of the "foam testing" folks just kinda overlook that.......Maybe 110%

[@JSturdivant]

From the comments sounds like everyone wants more specific numbers in the table, rounding to whole numbers scewed your math a little bit. Looking at the table though you did lose energy at 718 could we get a 800ish grain arrow for comparison? To see if the diminished returns continue. Heavy arrow is easy to preach whith 350 grain arrows, but some might be pushing to far looking for the best.

[@timcorwin6126]

Idk why so many people are debating the math on this and saying you (Troy) are telling people to launch 800 gr logs at animals 80 yards away. Since I have first stumbled on your videos you have said “shoot perfect flying arrows with high foc and the highest grain weight possible WITH A DESIRABLE DROP”. In my mind a 600gr arrow is the sweet spot. I’m also hunting deer in the Midwest where a 40 yard shot is hard to come by.

[@jimk59]

How does all of this effect crossbow bolts? Do you need to go as heavy as your arrows or does the shorter length of a bolt come into play?

[@mikeguy9668]

Its all the same. The delivery method does not matter

[@Dankbudzz]

Merica and adult arrows baby 😂

[@02LM7]

The guy from exodus outdoor gear did an awesome video on speed loss down range. Don’t really care that Mr nock on can shoot a 1 moa group at 70 meters, I can’t, and no one, not even Mr Dudley, can hit exactly where he wants on a live animal. So I’ll take some extra insurance in the form of a heavy (ish) weight.

[@RanchFairy]

Apparently some peoples animals never move so they just magically hit perfect EVERY TIME......

[@weekender38]

Congrats on your 10# bass.

[@1999mike]

You're going to put lumenock out of business with all these slow arrows, u can see them in flight 😂

[@FishinOnaMission]

Killed an elk with a 377 gr arrow. Shoot 70lbs with a 26.5” draw. First arrow shot a serv1.5. Elk was walking shot back. He took a few steps. Second arrow a sevr1.5 double lung, no pass through.he went 20 and laid down. Third and forth arrow complete pass through with thr magnus. Shot placement is everything.

[@FishinOnaMission]

I have a video with pictures

[@mikecorbett8310]

Radar Gun?

[@jaysonallen3100]

Its just math.. 77-70=8? 78-70=7? 79-72=6? What an I missing here?

[@bigz5262]

There’s probably decimal points that are missing

[@tommyharbison9900]

I think Mr. Nock*On and myself can agree that maybe fishing is a good home for you. You can wear all kinds of cool hats fishing. Maybe you can do a study on how the lures trajectory comes out of your rod. Then do a study on lure penetration hitting the water and how it affects the fish. Stick to fishing fairy.