Does Vengeance "Fix" Shin Megami Tensei V?

[@Bartido]

I think what Vengeance did wrong most of all is the fact that they didn't give Dasai another hat on top of his hat for every NG+ cycle you are on, so he just throws a bunch of hats onto the ground.

[@Alex_Barbosa]

Somebody hire this man

[@decarabiaumbra560]

Dazai get's an almighty attack that's just him throwing hats.

[@DarkAdonisVyers]

@@decarabiaumbra560 Oddjob?

[@TrollToll2000]

I hated Dazai so much. The cringe is strong in that one.

[@decarabiaumbra560]

@@DarkAdonisVyers Seems a strange name for an almighty attack about throwing hats. Something like "Hatastrophe" seems more in line with it.

[@LixeiraDoFrost]

The reason Mastema is able to control Tiamat is actually mythological. He's known for being able to control and summon demons, and I think they actually mention this directly during the game.

[@genesisrhapsodos3151]

When Yuzuru and Dazai joined me I ran away from Khonsu and dragged them to finish a bunch of sidequests and do the DLC bosses to get as much out of their cool animations as possible 😂

[@ryankeith2712]

35 minute video from Ratatoskr on a game I’ve never played? Oh yeah we are eating good

[@justkubz]

Dude, same 😂 is this persona? lol

[@askiia8713]

​@@justkubzPersona is a spinoff of the Shin Megami Tensei franchise, which in of itself is a successor/sequel franchise of sorts to the original Megami Tensei. Shin Megami Tensei or SMT for short has quite a few other spinoffs such as the devil survivor series which plays more like an isometric tactical RPG, but yes, Persona is their most popular spinoff title and ironically way more popular then the main franchise itself.

[@justkubz]

@askiia8713 that's crazy I was just being silly lol thanks for the knowledge homie! I've only ever played Persona 5 and this looked similar

[@fulltimeslackerii8229]

@@askiia8713this sounds so complicated

[@Phoizza]

​@@justkubz sleep with your eyes open bro 🙏

[@sureokk]

I'm one of those goblins that don't care about story so I'm just happy to have new bosses

[@leosnap7831]

We need more goblins in this planet.

[@JuliusKingsleyXIII]

I think the biggest problem with Vengeance's story is that the developers mistakenly believed that the two Canons were equal and opposite routes to each other. They wanted people to pay both to get the full pucture. But that is super misguided because Creation was shitty and unfinished. So there is nothing of substance there to parallel or prop up Vengeance. They should have just made a single combined route with all 5 areas and equal focus on all characters, and like 4 or more endings. Law girl, law boy, chaos boy, chaos girl, neutral, true neutral or whatever.

[@renhardhalim]

@@JuliusKingsleyXIII that's literally reconstruct the whole game. At that point i would rather get another 4A rather than that kind of story

[@Alex_Barbosa]

​@@renhardhalimNah it needed the reconstruction

[@BlackfangDragon]

I think it does serve its purpose but not the way the Creators intended: It shows the futility of all the Creation endings so long as the Curse of Marduk and “Law” of the Horned God Lineage that exists. Free of Mandala or not, that Curse still exists upon the Throne, so it’s still there waiting for the next Horned God to continue the cycle of Oppressor and Oppressed(also Chaos being doomed because the Law of the Horned God rejects trying to make equality and equity).

[@Raytheman581]

@@Alex_Barbosa Just need to make another game at that point, this was just an enhanced edition with some more bells ans whistles.

[@renren47618]

​@@renhardhalimFrankly, i'd rather have SMT V VENGEANCE being an Apocalypse deal that takes place afther the original True Neutral ending or something like that.

[@kizoaoy7423]

My experience was realizing how down bad i was for Panagia Yoko

[@gasaiyuno6021]

TRUE.

[@Mrdtaylz]

From the beginning of the game onward I'm like "the story's better, the story's better, this is getting good..." Then it just jumps 100 feet into the air yet dives off a cliff at the same time. And I'm just like again?

[@bricktastic-acular1298]

We traded one canyon for another

[@Raytheman581]

Imo its stil better because at least I enjoyed the story this time even if the endings still let me down. In the original I just didn't really care at all outside the beginning. Its actually hard for games to get endings corrently sometimes. Felt let down by balders gate 3 endings as well.

[@decarabiaumbra560]

@@bricktastic-acular1298 It's at least a less painful splat. I suppose

[@makotonarukami7468]

I liked Yoko a lot. Her attitude reminds me of someone who tells it to you straight and you can tell that deep down she longs for one person that understands her.

[@micaholson1052]

It is better....but in the sense that it is passable. There was little to no exposition on Khonsu in the original unless if you did a side quest. You spent more time with all the other characters learning their motives and reasonings. I will say that Dazai is still terrible though. And Yoko is just....uh....Idk what to say about her. Cars are bad I guess?

[@adambowser5783]

Very good break down and I respect your points. There was still going to be problems since it still followed the exact structure as vanilla. Overall I still love the game and it sits very high in my personal favourites in the franchise even with its flaws. Also about Mastema, in lore he actually can control demons. Yes the game should have prepared this at least by bringing it up but it seems they hope to explain things with lore (meaning people to look this up themselves) I hope they take everything they learned to make SMT6!

[@renhardhalim]

​@@TheFloodFourmIf you talk all these rerelease are cut content then you're wrong because this is literally a scrap ideas. The new demons, demon haunt, new skills, etc is a given to attract more people and definitely not cut content. If you want to ses the real cut content then you can just go to dlc section and loot at their day 1 dlc practices

[@renhardhalim]

They actually said that there's an angel that can command demons and this dialogue happen while we're looking for the one that turned people into salt

[@decarabiaumbra560]

I always took that as Mastema could recruit demons of his own, rather than he could've single handedly won the law chaos dispute by just mind controlling the strongest chaos demon he finds.

[@Laurcus]

You do get some answers about the Mandala System from one of the new superbosses. Ultimately, while the world you create has broken away from the Mandala System, the system itself is still intact and observing the situation, deciding how to proceed. This next part is somewhat speculation on my part, but I suspect YHVH did not try to oppose the system directly because to do so would have been extremely suicidal. Direct opposition of the system is what spawns said new superboss and narratively it makes it very clear that he is vastly superior to Lucifer or any of the other characters. So YHVH used the Condemnation as a sort of loophole, hoping to preserve his reign without drawing the ire of the system. Either way, this is all clearly content seeding for SMT6, and not something that is meant to be fully understood now.

[@painuchiha2694]

First time playing with SMTVV , I love this game The gameplay is much more interesting than persona The story is whatever so far but everything else makes up for it imo

[@Dr_Donald_Duck]

Same. Press turn system and the demons are so much fun. Exploration is also kinda neat.

[@shutup1037]

I'm pretty much gameplay first story second

[@writerblocks9553]

A mention about digital devil saga in 2024 is great

[@johnnymillar9056]

I think I invaded you the other day in Cerulean Coast. I was like WHOA IT'S HIM! Gave you "may the best win" emote and then got absolutely destroyed. Very cool moment

[@ChickenFriedKarma]

i think playing base 5 all the way back when it came out made me appreciate this and the new story MUCH more then i probably would’ve if i never had played the original story first

[@antoniojsanchez7892]

I think the game ¨hopes¨ you play both creation and vengeance since if you play both you realize that all events still happen, if you play vengeance you fight the qadishtu and abdiel defeats the demon king and bethel remains united under abdiel as they see her as the strongest so in taito all of branchs are loyal to bethel, in creation you beat the demon king and abdiel so the branches reveals against bethel after seeing that they can becoming a nahobino will make the stronger than the lider they were following(on that note both odin and zeus whant to use the protagonist as there knowledge since both are chief war god of thunder like susano-o).While you are at shinjuku you hear how dasai is contributing in the fight against the demon king showing that his character development did happens is just that you were in a different place. they even make a new super boss stronger than shiva that is in chioda and to fight it a full power you have to win the vengeance route first to fight it.

[@mastazenkei]

Imo it's a solid title , 8,5/10 from me , but looking at how many improvements have been made in this version the orginal must have been a disaster

[@Anonymous-ld7je]

Not really, the original had nearly as good of gameplay with obviously a bare-bones story. SMT V's story was only marginally more bare-bones than Nocturne's. Nocturne has an extremely thin narrative (I don't think it's bad, btw, but people that want lots of character development and cutscenes will be MASSIVELY disappointed by Nocturne), yet Nocturne is generally considered a masterpiece, or something close to it at least. I think the difference of thin character development in Nocturne=good, but thin character development in SMT V=bad is because Persona 5 was a mega hit, and everyone's expectations were warped by that.

[@huskizzle]

I’m one of the apparent few who liked the story of base SMTV. I thought the concepts and the situations presented were more thought provoking than plot-reliant and I was okay with it. The game didn’t focus on narrative and it didn’t bother me. I don’t plan on playing Vengeance anytime soon, but I do plan on adding it to the backlog stack.

[@makotonarukami7468]

O.G. V = COVID 19 rush this because we dont know of the Game Industry will even exists anymore so lets worry about it after all our investors get there money back.

[@Anonymous-ld7je]

​@@makotonarukami7468 Well, pretty impressive that the SMT "COVID rush" game still had objectively better combat than Persona 5.

[@statesminds]

Vengeance is amazing. I enjoyed the original game but the story was definitely lackluster. I will say that Canon of Vengeance is made better by knowing what happens in Canon of Creation. Also all the new demon designs are absolutely PEAK. The Qaditsu amazing and hot hahah

[@justinrodriguez5957]

I felt like Canon of Vengeance was essentially the True Order and True Chaos that were originally meant to accompany True Neutral. And as supplements, they work in expanding the story of certain powerful beings that are essentially lost in time loops that are looking to break them for good. Demi-fiend wants out. And so does Nahobino. So you have three meh endings and three true ones. With the game confirming Nahobino does manage to break the cycle in one. Though yeah, Dazai and Yuzuru being practically unused throughout the entire playthrough is bs. Not to mention Yoko or Tao straight up disappearing the moment you reject the other is just straight bizarre.

[@jaffinator2166]

Great review! However I am curious about your thoughts on post-game revelations, specifically: 1. You mentioned the revelation of Marduk’s curse as stated by Samael, but if that’s the case, why can Yakumo and Nuwa be allowed to take the Throne in CoC? 2. Mastema’s seeming allegiance to the Greater Will/Axiom as opposed to the God of Law. And him putting up a deception to that front. 3. Satan being his IVA design but having none of the lore implications that Satan had. I know they used it because it’s an amazing design that deserves to be in 3D, but there were specific reasons why Satan was the way he was. 4. The Demi-Fiend’s existence now not being able to be waved away as “non-canon DLC” and the further connections between V and Nocturne. 5. The contradiction that the Conception happened in Chiyoda in V but also in Shinjuku just like in Nocturne, as explained by the Miman right outside the Medical Center.

[@phantomfenrir4976]

About point 4, it really doesnt matter because all SMT games are canon in-universe. Its just different versions of the world, all connected through the Amala Network, a multiverse. So there is no problem with Demifiend being on other games since its perfectly possible to happen, even if we all know its for fanservice.

[@tonyknighton4019]

​@@phantomfenrir4976Still pretty shallow but you're right.

[@SnowPhoniex]

😢

[@ethermeda]

To answer your first question, Yakumo and Nuwa can’t take the throne to use its power. That’s why their original goal was to create a world without demons using the throne’s power, but because of Marduk’s curse they instead opted to destroy the throne as this does not use the its power.

[@techreviewerjlox]

I can't speak on if it "fixed" it but I had a blast playing it. I only have an Xbox and a Playstation so I couldn't play it before. This is my entry point to the series after starting with Persona 4-5/Strikers/Tactica-3R Also anybody playing Canon of Vengeance I highly recommend to special fusion all the Qadistu they are GOATED when together. Got through the entire final area with them.

[@chaincat33]

I will point out that Critical is far from the best magatsuhi skill. It's certainly always useful, and I don't blame people for only using it, but skills like Fairy Banquet and Raestu Feast are amazing for when you get them, Fairy Games I found was essentially mandatory for Matador on-level. I'm surprised you didn't even look at Accursed Poison as that's essentially mandatory on an ailment build, since it resets enemy ailment resistances and usually forces an ailment proc. Omnipotent is good, Impaler's Glory is generally better. Omogatoki Charge is good to run in tandem with them because it maintains omnipotent and glory

[@ratatoskr6324]

You are mistaken about accursed poison. It is not mandatory or even useful because no boss (outside of super bosses) will survive long enough for you to need to reset it's ailment resistance.

[@alenezi989a3]

I wish I received my copy free from the publisher. I can't justify buying it again since I owened it in Switch, I keep waiting for a deep discount. Lesson learned never buy an Atlus game until the complete version comes out a year later.

[@minakoarisato1506]

Yup I'm not getting their new game at launch at it sucks cuz I want to. But I know deep down they will just do this again with more day 1 dlc . I can't keep doing this😭

[@alenezi989a3]

@minakoarisato1506 I'm really looking forward to Metaphor, but man I just know they'll do the same shit again. And I can't afford to buy 2 of every game they make. Either buy on discount or wait a year and get the complete version.

[@maroXUprising]

@@minakoarisato1506oh yeah, I get the feeling they may do a revamped version for Nintendo’s next system, since that’ll be an easy install base to “milk” some people’s $$$, like myself since I’ll definitely pick it up on the next Nintendo system for $60/70.

[@Anonymous-ld7je]

​@@alenezi989a3 This was "wait two and a half years", not wait a year. I wish the complete editions came out after only a year. SMT V was November of 2021 man.

[@nutsberkintime]

The game felt drastically more compelling to me story wise only to underwhelm me at the very end again.

[@HunterStiles651]

SMT has always had pretty lackluster endings, and CoV is hardly the worst offender in that regard.

[@CraveForYuri]

Yoko's ending is pretty alright, you get to fuck over mastema and make yourself and yoko adam and eve. Also the new Lucifer fight is 10x better than what we got on release.

[@err0rc0degames]

13+ hours until first rerelease additions...? Damn, just replayed the og game recently. Not sure I can bear it again this soon

[@shinyanakagawa8241]

If you actually speedrun the first area, which is a lot easier to do now, it will only take you around 2 hours or so to get into the actual new content.

[@shinyanakagawa8241]

You could just keep Basilisk or any other demon with the same innate skill and boost their stats up with incenses and grimoires though. This one guy literally keeps the first pixie, boost her stats up until the end game and she literally killed True Masakado with Floral Gust. Mind that, the guy has not even use the mitama dlc for this to happen, just pure perseverance.

[@LordlyWeeb]

It was already good, now it's even better

[@illusive-mike]

Even more so than with CoC, CoV's story very obviously suffers from the limitations of development, with most of its weird/bad moments being clear consequences of it. Why do we still have the Sahori plot? Well, in part because it establishes that underneath all of Tao's acknowledgements of Yoko's points on the practical limitations of the existing world, Tao's real desire and mission as a goddess is to save everyone, even the dead. But also, we still need Shinagawa to happen, so we still need demons to attack the school. We may trade Lahmu for Eisheth as the arc villain (a good choice that improves the overall pacing by tying Shinagawa to the larger story) but the inciting incident still needs to happen, and Lahmu and Sahori are right there. Why does Dazai still move so rapidly? Well, he actually spends a bunch of time off-screen alongside Abdiel dealing with the Chiyoda content we're not doing, so we're just supposed to take it on faith that his change was more gradual than it looks based just on his appearances. A shortcut relying on the audience playing CoC to get the full experience, even though it still sucks. Why does nothing happen in Taito? Because it's still Taito, the only area in SMT V that wasn't designed in a linear fashion and that suffers greatly from its openness. Less so in Vengeance in general due to improvements to level scaling and better quest level signposting, but Taito remains the worst area in terms of gameplay even before factoring the story in. Also, the Bethel branches are still a loose end that needs to be cleared up before the final Throne rush. Why Lucifer? Because extradimensional shenanigans were a blight on IV:A's Dagda ending (and IV's endings somewhat more generally), so explicitly cutting them off is a good thing for the story. But Lucifer never explained it well in the original, and CoV just added a better explanation to Samael's encounter instead. Samael being an optional superboss accessed from Shinjuku after reaching the Empyrean, the visibility of this explanation is rather poor. Why does using the Throne to destroy it work in the Chaos ending despite it being established as impossible in CoC's default Neutral ending (where, per the dialogue available when True Neutral is rejected, all you manage is to break the Throne for yourself)? Maybe Yoko's Goddess powers helped, but who knows. We gotta wrap it up, no time to deal with the little things. Just be glad you get to fight Tiamat and it's epic. What even is the Reason (so to speak) of your specific world in the Law ending? Not the goal, but the mechanism behind the world order of your coming age, the thing CoC's endings all define? No matter, it's all about the outcome, let's not concern ourselves with what specific step we take towards solving the system's problems in a route that rejects the radical change that would solve the problem at its root. All the options offered in CoC have failed in various ways over the course of CoV and have likely been rejected by our Nahobino, but we definitely have something, and we don't need to tell you what it is. Just look at this happy Sahori. It exists, trust us. No need to look at any other re-releases of "mainline" Megaten games numbered 5 for how the world where everyone is happy can work. Unsurprisingly then, CoV is at its best in Shinjuku, a brand new area that comes with the least baggage. There's art assets that aren't just ruins and sand, Yuzuru can get character development, Mastema can be himself, we can have a much better Yakumo fight, the Agrat harassment bit is a good riff on the chase gimmick, the climactic showdown is just glorious... And Shakan, because we can't not follow the third area with a dungeon. Great Will forbid we try to put Orobas and Nue in actual SMT V areas and not a dungeon.

[@HunterStiles651]

I heavily disagree that Dazai's turn to the dark side was even more rushed in the CoV than in the CoC. While they did strip his character development in Chiodya, they added new scenes that better hint at his repressed desire for power. That he wants to be stronger not to protect others, but because he wants to basically be the ultimate superhero. So when Mastama gave him the opportunity to become that, he just snapped.

[@illusive-mike]

@@HunterStiles651 I didn't say it was more rushed than in CoC, only that it was abrupt. We don't see him snapping, it happens off-screen. Which if anything makes it all the more awkward that his Sucker hat still just so happens to come off exactly at the moment we see him going full crusader. Also, if anything, his last appearance before Mastema gets his hooks into him shows a big "all you need is power" attitude, since he basically instigates all of the fights against the Egyptian branch and prevents any peaceful resolution. Dazai's arc in CoV suffers from an issue that CoV is actually better at dealing with than CoC: the way gameplay dictates pacing. In SMT V, hours of gameplay are dedicated to exploring the areas and doing sidequests, with the main story only reasserting itself once you finish sections of the map and reach the next mandatory boss. CoV generally makes sure those mandatory bosses never feel like filler (as opposed to the entire Lahmu arc in CoC Shinagawa), but it still leaves side characters out of focus for long periods of time. Generally they either don't develop in that time or catch you up relatively easily when you reunite, but Dazai fits a total heel turn into his major absence.

[@Anonymous-ld7je]

​​@@illusive-mike The girl in Nocturne goes from a preppy high school kid wandering the netherworld, to fused with a demon and wanting to create a world where might makes right all at once in essentially one small sequence with 1-2 scenes. This is just SMT man. You can like it or not, but it's not Persona, nor do I or most other fans want it to be. Nocturne had quite thin character development (because isolation is a big theme of the game), and many consider it to be a masterpiece. I loved the game too. SMT VV has among the best gameplay of any game in the series. I appreciate a good story, but I play SMT for the press-turn mechanics, demon fusions, skill system, etc. that don't exist in really any other game franchise on earth, including Persona which is greatly watered down. In my view, Persona=watered down gameplay and SMT=watered down story. Pick your poison. I prefer SMT, the purpose of a game is to play it. I can read a book for a story. I've been playing them since the 90s, and to this day SMT still has my favorite turn based battle system of any RPG series I've ever played. A lot of great boss battles, too. You can say you want both the best RPG combat and the best RPG story all in one game, but that's just... Not realistic. The development time would be insane. I find it interesting that SMT (especially V, it seems) is universally panned for having a lackluster story, but Persona 5 is borderline worshipped and never criticized for having lackluster combat. I'm not saying the combat in Persona 5 is "bad", but I think it's worse than any mainline SMT game. A very simplified, watered down version. It's like "diet" SMT. I think that disparity is because most gamers these days seem to value story over gameplay, but I don't and some others don't either. SMT has always emphasized gameplay and Persona emphasizes story, that's why they exist as two separate franchises. Anyways, your preference is valid, but the main criticism of SMT games seems to always boil down to "why isn't this Persona, why didn't I get at least 6 cutscenes of development for X character?" Because it isn't Persona, SMT doesn't do that. Even SMT IV, which most people think has a "good" story, had only a handful of scenes per character associated with an ending. Laughably few compared to a Persona game. Yet, SMT IV was still a masterpiece.

[@illusive-mike]

@@Anonymous-ld7je I can't agree with this take. Neither SMT IV nor Strange Journey skimp on character development. And indeed Nocturne is quite guilty of nonsensical character leaps because the isolation itself makes no story sense and exists mostly to serve the game mechanics of not clogging the Demi-Fiend's party with humans. It also just so happens that Nocturne is my least favorite modern mainline game, and I'm including IV:A and V Classic here despite their own glaring issues. "The existing fans are fine with this" is no real defense. Indeed, do note that I'm not even so much taking umbrage with Dazai's flip myself as I'm offering an explanation for why it's so bad in response to the video pointing out that it is bad. SMT stories don't have to suck, and VV itself notably sucks less than V Classic. Also, just to follow up on you bringing up Persona for no reason, I actually like Strange Journey's story more than any modern Persona entry. Take that as you will.

[@minakoarisato1506]

10:57 etrian odyssey mention! Best dungeon crawler series with great party building!

[@ChiruYES]

The release of vengeance once again made me realize I should again wait for the eventual inevitable “better version” of refantazio. Instead of getting swept up in the hype and getting the initial version like I did for P4 and P5. Then buying them AGAIN but enjoying them more in the update.

[@Bragdolius]

I love SMT5:Vengeance. i bought a copy for my long time friend and we played it side by side on the new vengeance route even it streamed it to each other on discord. we ended up being polar opposites of each other. him going for the chaos route and i went Law, it was really cool to see his outcomes versus mine and we have played the bases game back on the switch. his build was more a bit of everything going for weaknesses and magic builds and mine was pure damage mainly Almighty based attacks and demons

[@TheSwordsman100]

That description of Law is completely off while it is indeed more orderly then the other two, order isn't one of the alignment's core ideals (which are peace, equality and especially fairness) and it's endings are actually pretty good. The real problem with Law is what it does to get to those endings. Heck both Amane and Rolando are rebels.

[@badalrana10]

He's back! Now we just need that podcast with Kosmos and Timdiggity 👀

[@TrevRockOne]

When SMT5 was first released, a critic was dragged for describing it as "Persona without the heart". He was right in that the game is missing something, but really SMT5 is SMT without the brain. It just seems that Atlus doesn't have anyone to guide Megaten with a sure hand anymore.

[@yank_crime]

SMT V was never bad in any way

[@Vanity0666]

The problem is that casuals who don't know shit about the series expect the game to be persona 5 2

[@RationaLess]

A big issue with SMT V that Vengeance did not fix is it's worldbuilding. Essentially all sidequests are context-agnostic and could be slotted into any other SMT game, they do very little to expand the world and they feel like they exist for the sake of padding the game out. Going through the main story is the only way you acquire context about anything regarding the world, making the exploration feel largely hollow, which is something that puts SMT V below Nocturne and IV for me

[@tonyknighton4019]

That's probably why I barely play it.

[@jaraar1556]

I agree , and I would say if the story and world building were better I could say it's the best mainline , because nocturne is still my favorite but from a gameplay experience I like it alot

[@ZeroillusionX]

in all honestly, I do think that vengeance did fix smtv, and it really isn't because of the story, it fixed the major issues that the vanilla version had, which are pacing, character development and yeah, the story, I understand why people is saying that vengeance didn't fix the story and that while it got improved considerably, it still feels really poor in comparison to other smt games, I disagree so much with this, like sure, the story isn't perfect, but is not what it's done with the story or its themes, is how it was presented, smtv vengeance, is by far the best smt to start with if you want to get into the franchise, but it's also the worst from a story and lore perspective, because the game have preconceived notions that they expect the player to know, for example, lucifer not showing up at all in in the entire game, and only through a memory cutscene, like a few dialogues in the creation path where he incites dazai to go evil, and literally until the very end on the vengeance story, he feels completely detach of the story and I agree if he played a major role in the story the game would in fact be better, I understand and agree with that, but then again, this game was made during the pandemic and the vengeance version may as well have to be a completely different game if they really wanted to fix all it's story problems, but there's one thing they did well, and it's consistency regarding the lore and the details that explain why things happen in the first place, I still don't understand why people say dazai going monke in vengeance is executed in a worse way than in the creation path, this couldn't be further from the true, because in all honestly mastema giving dazai power and brain washing him is a much better executed than dazai getting told by lucifer to preserve his own order, why? because mastema control demons, all of this have an explanation that is deeply rooted in smt history and lore, you're told through dialogue that mastema controls demons, aogami tells you that the devil summoner program slowly poisons the mind of weak people (like dazai) to eventually act and think more like demons and concerns themselves in their matters, like chaos and order, something that is true because smt 1 and 2 exist, which they also gave you a similar explanation, mastema also control demons in extrange journey, preconceive notions remember? I know it sounds foolish, but this is how it is, a lot of the story and lore makes so much more sense if you know this things, another example, tsukuyomi tells you that tokyo already when through an apocaliptic event before, wanna know how he called it? you guess it, the conception, a process, that shapes the world a new, not like a nahobino creating another world, the conception that happen in smt3, is the same conception in smtv or at least heavily implied, which explains the dlc, and I know people will say, oh but the dlc demons say they come from another world, true true, but due to smtv insane lore bomb drop, we now know other worlds also mean other timelines, satan superboss is probably the biggest reveal in the entire franchise, because he confirms that the nahobino has indeed save a timeline or several of the mandala system, beating him means you can walk the path of the godborn, and is not just going into a new game with lvl 150, satan is basically saying that the nahobino has the ability to warp and follow different decisions in time, going into clear save, means going into the next timeline to choose the path that you want, that the save system, is actually part of the lore, which is something atlus always tells us, that all endings and all games and spin offs are canon, because they take place in different timelines, smt4 apocalipse did this too by bringing its dlc with stephen an all previous messiahs from different worlds, smt1 2 and 3, but because it was dlc people didn't pay it much mind other than some cool fanservice. Anyway, long story short, game was fixed, smtv vengeance is far more enjoyable imo when armed with previous knowledge of the games before it, little details from other games explain a lot of the story and fix its underlying issues, which I know shouldn't be the case, because it would make much more sense to simply tell the player, but I also thing this information is available in the game, people just have the attention spawn of a pickle, like seriously, they literally tell you in dialogue (not voice acted or in cutscene) why things happen, why x or y is like that, I get it, we live in different times, but it wouldn't hurt people to just pay attention.

[@shinyanakagawa8241]

I agree. People really do gloss over shit, especially the intro narration and Lilith's narration. Those are the biggest lore bomb for Vengeance and people treat them like it was nothing and still shouting that the story wasn't fleshed out.

[@ZeroillusionX]

@@shinyanakagawa8241 I know, the story could be so much better, but most people bitch about it because of their own inability to read dialogues, I know this generation has the attention spawn of a monke high on cocaine writing the plot for soul hackers 2, but that doesn't mean everyone has to be like that, it's an rpg, they are supposed to be that way, the least people can do is just read instead of complaining about not being spoon feed with some cutscene of voice acted dialogue.

[@DashSwordSlash]

It’s been over two weeks since your last podcast, was starting to get worried about you. Glad to hear you’re still alive and well!

[@nddugas]

Still really early in this version of SMT V. Your thumbnail, even though I do not quite know the context, seems pretty spoilery. Not watching this vid until I get through the game, but it might help to not have the story spoiled.

[@gotinogaden]

I've always wondered why was Lucifer so adamant on knowing which ideology you'll follow when the ending is decided in the final parts of V. As far as his plan is concerned, the Nahobino goes on to re-create the world in ways which all destroy the Mandala System, so it shouldn't really matter to him whether you stand for Law or Chaos. It seems like another example of mechanics that were tucked in for the sake of gameplay rather than story. On another note, one also might wonder if V is not some sort of a metacontinuation from a narrative branch of another plot, in this case Nocturne's. You know, like NiER and NiER: Automata both follow from a certain ending of the first Drakengard. That would almost certainly exclude the True Demon ending, since other fiends still have their Menorahs and in that ending, The Demi-Fiend has them all defeated. We know that the Great Will is still there (likely with Mastema under his command) because Sophia mentions him, and most of the character-based endings in Nocturne do not seem compatible with the events in V, which makes me think that V somehow picks up after the neutral ending of SMT3, although the Conception in that universe was instigated by someone else (?) and somewhere else (Chiyoda) instead of Shinjuku as in 3.

[@chrisc5611]

I'm curious, which smt game would you say has the best (or your favorite) story?

[@ratatoskr6324]

Strange Journey.

[@gabrielsandor3474]

​@@ratatoskr6324Recently, I've started playing Redux, and besides a couple annoying areas and the lack of the press turn system (which is way better than co-op imo) this might be peak SMT for me. It might never happen, especially after Soul Hackers 2 flopped, but I really hope Atlus will start making more spinoffs in the future, like they did in the PS2 and DS/3DS eras, because they had some real bangers back then. I don't expect them to make a mainline, more experimental title like Strange Journey, but that would also be welcome.

[@BrokeNSings]

​@@ratatoskr6324Which version of Strange Journey do i I play? Redux or Vanilla?

[@TheMetalGaia]

​@@BrokeNSingsjust go Redux. It changes some things but overall I think it's easier to get into. Strange Journey is an incredible game either way, though.

[@ratatoskrstreams1416]

@@BrokeNSings Vanilla.

[@3up3rn0va]

I agree I've tried to plow through this game even on easier difficulties because I suck at gaming and to see the whole story and what I've found is that I like SMT 4 and 4 Apocalypse way better and I hope to God Atlus announces a full on remake because if they made those games in Unreal Engine it'd go so hard I can't wait for that

[@ayejay2688]

"i think the real reason he can control tiamat is so that they can re-use tiamat in both routes, as a boss fight" did you.... play any other smt? or, even just vengeance fully? mastema *IS* waaaayyyy stronger than tao and yoko narratively, they are relatively new frogs in comparison * okay yeah you definitely didn't pay attention to the story enough, it is literally word for word explained in the fight and across the game itself as to why lucifer is the final boss fight

[@leosnap7831]

I like the strange journey music that was added. Smooth.

[@Ophenix12]

There’s a lot of potential in the game’s story, I like the reduction of YHVH into a bull god and the whole lineages of gods. It’s cool. How over it is extremely half baked. A lot of details are borked in the execution. CoC focuses on gods looking for their Nahobino and the CoV has multiple demons just possessing Nahobino for no reason. Why is Tsukuyomi your new fusion? He says he can’t ascend to the throne but still pushes you to go there, why? You hit the nail on the head that in other, better written games, the ascension to power and faction selection are in the background till they become the main focus. However, even if you move beyond that, what little story the game offers makes no sense. I hope that this is a resource issue and the next game we get will be Demon Survivor or SJ tier. If not I’ll just wait for it to be on sale because between Soul Hackers 2 and SMTV/V Atlus has been dropping stinkers on us. Each game had its merits but overall none of them delivered.

[@heribertoesquivel7500]

Everyone says vengeance story is better but I just can’t see it. V’s was fascinating thanks to its spin on old megaten tropes and the trust the developers and writers put in the audience to be able to read the events that happen on the game, which is something the series desperately needed after apocalypse, redux and even persona 5. For example, everyone thinks V is catering to nocturne, yet the alignments and characters are more in line with SMT 1. Where order and chaos become globalism vs nationalism. Heck even Yuzuru and Dazai are mirrors to Law Hero and Chaos Hero. Dazai is the coward bullied overly emotional who becomes an ass once he learns how to unlock his potential (both through demon “fusion”), while Yuzuru is more interested in saving someone which eventually leads him to his idea of protection (just change the sister with the law’s hero girlfriend), which is why I don’t see him getting overly emotional as good characterization, it is out of character, just like Dazai taking a selfie during combat. Base V also made the incredible decision to be a more lawful focused game this time. Because that’s exactly what the series needed, an answer to know what would happen if Lucifer gets his way. All while referencing Paradise Lost which is one of the primary inspiration for the series in general. Not to mention, being also a parable about the sanctity of Knowledge as a force of creation (in contrast to IV where Knowledge was for destruction) All in all V was genuinely made by people who understand and respect the series. Then enters vengeance, a game that falls into the same trap other modern games fall: a game that overexposes “a plot” with “characters” that talk and talk but in reality say nothing about anything, with a juvenile dialogue that would make nomura proud (derogatory)… yeah I just can’t take them seriously… and for good measure, making it easier with “”””quality of life”””” that discourages engaging with the gameplay itself. Komori said vengeance was content that was originally planned, but now I see why the more experienced writers (which includes devil survivor writers) decided to cut it off, because it is just dumb and cringe. Vengeance definitely feels like something Miyata (apocalypse) would have done before he got out of the project.

[@TheDsLeet]

The reason I find Vengeance much more compelling is because the writing actually makes the characters memorable. I forgot Yuzuru was in base V with how little he showed up and Dazai's change felt like it had little to no build up. Yoko and Tao might be more preachy than previous reps but I appreciate thier little back and forths. I prefer more of the surface level details to "subtlety" because if the I'm not interested on that level, I'm not taking the time to delve deeper. In Vengeance, both if these characters had more a chance to make an impression especially Yuzuru. His little character arc was handled in a way that bot only improved him but the entire second area of the game (Sahoris subplot did not been to be a whole area)

[@NobuKage404]

Vengeance was my first SMT game, but even I thought Lucifer's inclusion was forced, he doesn't bring up anything relating to the new story and just feels there to be there, and his boss fight is underwhelming.

[@koheikyouji]

Which version of his fight did you do? Theres a single phase battle set around lvl80 I think (taken from the OG games law and chaos endings)? And a 3 phase battle set around lvl99 (taken from the OG games true ending) I ended up with the latter and thought it was pretty damn tough

[@NobuKage404]

@@koheikyouji I got the former, and I'm pretty sure that's what you get in the C of vengeance. The lvl 99 fight is probably the C of creation, I think.

[@koheikyouji]

@@NobuKage404 You can get lvl99 Lucifer in canon of Vengeance I dont know what the trigger is. Probably beating Shiva or something

[@NobuKage404]

@@koheikyouji Ah really, it's doesn't change the fact I don't like Lucifer inclusion in this route, he feels out of place imo.

[@koheikyouji]

@@NobuKage404 Completely fair I personally think that Satan shouldve been the final boss of these routes. They couldve easily written a reason for it, rather than having him as a NG+ exclusive superboss

[@alsaiduq4363]

I just glad that they tried this time.

[@matteste]

"Does Vengeance "Fix" Shin Megami Tensei V?" No, but it adds a better side dish. But seriously though, it is like after SMT IV, there was a sharp drop on quality when it comes to SMT, especially in the directing and writing department. And I not just saying that things are underwhelming, but that they are almost shockingly bad at times. I would attribute this to the departure of the old guard with those currently handling the series having no idea of how it ticks, nor having any real talent for directing, vision or innovation. One thing I have especially noticed is just how trapped by the past the modern SMT team clearly is. It is just sad to see the series decay like this. And the fact that it finds financial success anyways means that it wont improve any time soon.

[@Andy-sj4ip]

Seriously I wonder What’s so good about the story of IV, I just don’t get it despite it being the first ever Atlus game I played, too many things that just didn’t sit right with me. I found the Vengeance Route quite more compelling than it overall

[@phantomfenrir4976]

Decay is too drastic, its not like SMT V is a terrible game, its flawed, but got a lot of really good stuff on it. If they can use this games as a learning experience, the future looks promising.

[@tonyknighton4019]

​@@phantomfenrir4976 I doubt it

[@shinyanakagawa8241]

I like IV but people really put that shit on pedestal way too much. IV has good story and good characters but the alignment shifts ultimately ruined Walter and Jonathan's characters just because they need to represent their respective alignments and the endings are just a flawed as the endings in Vengeance no cap.

[@matteste]

@@Andy-sj4ip The story of IV was somewhat mediocre by the standards the series had at the time. But comparing it to what they put out afterwards, and boy, it is like night and day. In IV, flawed as it was, you could still feel some of that distinct spirit of the series within it. V meanwhile is just a half-baked Nocturne clone, with far worse directive cohesion.

[@chaincat33]

Honestly I really enjoyed the story of Vengeance... Up until the end of Shinjuku. Hell, I'll give it to the end of Shakan, just to be nice. Taito really is just, where the game completely drops the ball on the story. It's the most open world-y part of the game, and I have to wonder if it's like, that's where the problem is. The idea that you can't have an open world and a story.

[@lmoTK106]

Idk what to say, once I got the butt lady and her whole family, except their husband, F*** that boss fight. I maxed them up and then I lost all the things that drive me into this hell hole Tao is good, plot wise, she been with us the whole time, Yoko in other hands, and now story want me to care for her somehow, They really drop the ball when It would be better if we have an alternative route changer right at the roof top scene between siding with Tao or Yoko

[@shinyanakagawa8241]

What lol. You just need to get enough law or chaos pointers to get the ending you want. If you ended up being neutral you can choose either one to follow when that scene comes up.

[@lmoTK106]

@shinyanakagawa8241 I meant, to make Yoko take us to the throne instead of Tao, all the way to the throne. Instead of Tao showing on the roof top after we thought she died, Yoko shows up and bring us to her route and then we gonna fight all the shit heaven and earth bring in the meat grinder

[@shinyanakagawa8241]

@@lmoTK106 Oh that. Yeah. While I agree that we should get Yoko to follow us if we are on chaos route, it defeats the purpose of the previous scene where Yoko is controlling Tiamat to get to the Empyrean. While it sucks ass, I think it is a decent compromise so that the story wont be dragging as much as it needs to be. Tao just sucks.

[@zg-it]

I'm 10 hours into the game and now your thumbnail just kind of spoiled something for me.

[@diegobrando492]

Noice, Shin Megami Tensei V Vengeance is one hell of a game

[@makotonarukami7468]

I think if Yoku flirted with me more in a manner of "No one will ever understand us." That would have been great. Conversations on the roof while in her Bad @$$ form would have been great too.

[@tespenkr9924]

How can you ask if Veangence fixes SMTV while having one of the best debuffers in the thumbnail?

[@andrewbenner6349]

V's story is cathartic to me as i am a misanthrope and care not for the petty and predictable paths of persons. I care only for their Spirit and Knowledge. Mythos. What they are. Who they were made to be. Better to change "at the drop of a hat" than due to what makes young people so alien today.

[@andrewbenner6349]

Just got to the diet building. Vengeance is utterly jam-packed with additional content already. It's overwhelming. The unfolding of the story is much more pleasant with Yoko there. The first chapter is way less of a slog. It feels like a real adventure. Aogami and Amano were not enough. The Lilith entourage and why they are doing is, on its face, already feeling like a missing puzzle piece.

[@snefansson]

I have no idea what this is but I’m starved for content after SotE fell flat content-wise so time to dig in!

[@Andy-sj4ip]

What really makes me like the Canon of Vengeance route really lies in how it handles its two alignment reps compared to the ones in the original route or even SMT IV or Nocturne IMO, I think they were great. Good review

[@athorem]

SMT VV ain't perfect, but I will say that it succeeds where Persona 3 Reload fails: being an actual definitive version. SMT VV was an improvement over SMT V whereas P3R downgrades some absolutely crucial components of P3.

[@AsishRasaily]

This could have been a dlc. Why am I paying 10 dollars more than the base game for a re-release.

[@andrewbenner6349]

I like a game where Maps of Meaning is nearly required reading.

[@benjamindittmann7431]

Great video. I enjoyed the game, but also thought that the story was its weak point. I personally found it quite disappointing that there wasn't a third ending to Vengeance that was your "own" kind of ending, something between law and chaos.

[@InsanityOtter983]

SMTV/Vengeance is a fantastic game in terms of gameplay but the story does kind of suck. It seems like so many characters just take the most extreme stance possible to the point that it feels stupid. That being said, the actual gameplay loop is so much fun to me that I don't really care. Vengeance being a separate game and not a DLC is a fucking scam though

[@renhardhalim]

@@InsanityOtter983 did you play it on switch?

[@donaldtrump2728]

No offense but are you familiar with this series? Because that’s kinda the point

[@InsanityOtter983]

@@renhardhalim I did, yeah

[@InsanityOtter983]

@@donaldtrump2728 not super familiar, no, it’s the first one I’ve played myself

[@donaldtrump2728]

@@InsanityOtter983 oh that makes sense. So a big part of this series is about 2(sometimes more) extreme ideologies and how they impact the world. I’m a huge fan of this series but believe me, the writing isn’t as good as some hardcore fans make it out to be

[@LittleVoice-g5t]

@Ratatoskr (Or anyone who might know) What kind of mic do you use? I don't know if it gets a lot of attention, but I feel like whatever your audio set up is, it really stands out in a good way.

[@mitchellradspinner4491]

As someone who trusts you on story and has had a nightmare of a time trying to get into this series/not a huge fan of the combat which game should I play if only one and mainly for story?

[@ratatoskr6324]

That's the kind of question I like to hear. SMT4 for the 3ds has a good story and is probably the best place to get into the series. I believe most people are more likely to stick with the series if they start here. SMT Strange Journey (original, not redux) has the best story and if you only play one, that's the one you should play. The problem is that Strange Journey is very hard and not what I would recommend if you already dislike the gameplay. If you can't or wont play on emulator then there was a recent remake of SMT Nocturne which will be your only option.

[@mitchellradspinner4491]

@@ratatoskr6324​​⁠honestly being harder would make it more up my alley! Actually having to try helps me to engage and in looking at strange journey its odd almost more horror seeming elements also seem great. Luckily a friend has a copy. Is there a big difference between Redux and original or is it on the scale of FFX vs FFXHD? thanks so much!

[@gabrielsandor3474]

​@@mitchellradspinner4491Playing Redux right now. From what I've heard it adds some quality of life elements and a new dungeon but also a new story route with 3 additional endings which a lot of people dislike. Personally, I haven't had any problems with it yet and it seems like you can largely ignore the added content, however you will inevitably meet the added character a couple of times and that feels a bit out of place and a distraction to the main story.

[@decarabiaumbra560]

@@mitchellradspinner4491 Difficulty is lowered through apps not having any cost to use and enemy hp bars exists, graphics change, which to those who prefer original SJ is the main critique of the redux version, other than the main new additions of redux in the story department. A new girl is added that will force you out of the original story for an extra mini dungeon, if you don't choose to complete it that is, in which case it is a new tartarus-esque dungeon, and a new boss fight with her if you go for one of the original endings. Her existence also recontextualizes the original endings in to "bad endings" thus retroactively ruining the original story's endings for the sake of making them less extreme. I prefer Redux for what it brings, but if you want greater difficulty, a more harsh and gritty look to everything, and are fine with some of the most harshest endings in the series, original SJ is the one to go for.

[@CuChulainn-u7r]

@@gabrielsandor3474 Difficulty is lowered through apps not having any cost to use and enemy hp bars exists, graphics change, which to those who prefer original SJ is the main critique of the redux version, other than the main new additions of redux in the story department. A new girl is added that will force you out of the original story for an extra mini dungeon, if you don't choose to complete it that is, in which case it is a new tartarus-esque dungeon, and a new boss fight with her if you go for one of the original endings. Her existence also recontextualizes the original endings in to "bad endings" thus retroactively ruining the original story's endings for the sake of making them less extreme. I prefer Redux for what it brings, but if you want greater difficulty, a more harsh and gritty look to everything, and are fine with some of the most harshest endings in the series, original SJ is the one to go for.

[@anonwalkerr]

I love your opinions, so much so that they often become my opinions

[@jakejutras5420]

This is a sad thing to admit.

[@jakejutras5420]

Pathetic even.

[@anonwalkerr]

@@jakejutras5420 it was just me saying he makes agreeable points in a roundabout way. I’m more interested in why that got you so emotional lmaoooo

[@leosnap7831]

Ratatoskr is the only person that only gives attention to games who deserve it.

[@metumortis6323]

21:20 what is that song? I know it's not Dark Reality

[@MetricPolygon]

Master of Hell from Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne

[@metumortis6323]

@@MetricPolygon thank you!

[@nightlyboot4888]

Fantastic analysis. I really enjoyed the more fleshed out law and chaos endings and the fact that you actually get alignment locked along with the elimination of the neutral path.

[@franciscor390]

Eager to hear about this, Vengeance do changes up things quite a bit.

[@xxProjectJxx]

SMT5 had great setup, but failed to follow through. SMT5 V ended up the exact same. Great setup. Poor follow through. Both fumbled the ending. Still a great base for a future SMT6 to build from, though.

[@minakoarisato1506]

I hadnt played vengence yet but i loved base smtv ❤

[@rainbowkrampus]

18:23 Secret Ankles

[@rottentea2980]

I like the goth gf on the thumbnail. Rodent knew not a lot of people cared, so he did the dirty trick. It worked however, I admit. I shall now watch the entire vid because of the pretty thumbnail. I obey the goth gf.

[@JJGateway01]

The gameplay is great but my least favorite thing is the area variety. You have a desert in a city, a desert in a city, a desert and THEN a city,etc. At least the second area had the fairy forest but god damn. It’s a point that I barely see anybody mention but I really feel like it holds my enjoyment of exploring back. I remember IV having a fantastic sense of scale and variety despite mostly taking place in Tokyo.

[@LordlyWeeb]

I like the setting of 4 more too but it is dishonest to call all the areas in 5 just deserts. The only area that's a desert is the first one. The second area is more compact and has more urban locations. The third area (in the Creation route at least) is also a compact urban zone that's generally divided into upper and lower parts. The 4th area is the closest to another desert, but how you navigate it and the mood of the area is entirely different. I enjoyed exploring them all, and they all felt like different experiences.

[@Regden1000]

I never played the original but at least it was better than Soul Hackers 2. Though I didn't find it quite as satisfying as when I was playing p Nocturne because the characters in vengeance weren't as interesting. Here's hoping Metaphor: ReFantazio will scratch my Atlus game itch.

[@realcuondaotherside]

This is a game I know and care nothing about. I just dropped into your stream while you were playing it and made you say Kingdom Hearts. I feel obligated to watch this video through.

[@renhardhalim]

"He's easier than the previous boss fight" well you should at least mention that you can fight Lucifer true power if you fulfill certain condition because it will literally change how people view it. Also this can happen on both route and i know for sure that on CoV you don't need to do multiple ending just to be able to access his true form but, i'am agreed with you about Lucifer being the final boss for Vengeance too is lame. They manage to put Tiamat into the game but didn't bother to add Marduk Also at this point people just need to accept that SMT V is literally a sequel to SMT3 Nocturne.

[@Alex_Barbosa]

It really starts to feel that way. Especially after I saw that Miman that mentions the conception starting in a hospital. If that's just a reference then it's a damaging one.

[@renhardhalim]

@@Alex_Barbosa The old SMTV might just made it looks like an easter egg, but Vengeance story literally confirmed it. I love Nocturne but, i hope next game will approach the world building of SJ or SMT4A

[@mpo48]

Gameplay and the demons matter to me. So vengeance is better. Everyone who disagrees doesn't actually play videogames.

[@darkduds38]

Game tried too hard to emulate the style of SMT3 without replicating its substance

[@django008]

I need to pick this game up again, stopped at do i beat african god son or beat up african god dad, choices man, even tho im doing a law route in vengence......i want the son to join me

[@saurovaki]

RATATOSKR SMT VIDEO I AM DEAD BUT AT LEAST IM IN HEAVEN

[@FSVR54]

Digital Devil Saga and Devil Survivor over SMT 3 and 4?

[@nwm4660]

yes madness, but the ones he likes are good too

[@FSVR54]

@@nwm4660 I like DDS but I prefer demon fusing/collecting and don't love the Mantra grind. I have yet to play Devil Survivor but I will before the year is out.

[@matth1641]

Devil Survivor 1 is really damn good. It's probably my fav.

[@Indi_51]

Where the heck are all of these kids' parents? xD (just a troll question, dont take seriously)

[@Jeff-tt7wj]

Did I just miss something completely or was it never really hashed out why exactly Yoko hates the world so much that she wants to summon an ancient god of Chaos to destroy everything. She’s a bit too edgelordy for me with no real justifiable reasons. If reasons were given they certainly weren’t memorable enough to justify her behavior in my mind. Yakumo was a much more interesting antihero and I loved that they fleshed him out a bit more this time around.

[@shinyanakagawa8241]

She was a goddess before her power was stripped from her by Marduk (the former Horned God in SMT V universe, before he was killed and replaced by Lucifer from Nocturne's universe). Yoko sees the utopia Marduk has realized on the current SMT V Earth as just a fabrication of the reality that is a product by stripping other gods' power and demoting them into demons (lesser gods/demons), and therefore resents Marduk's way of doing shit to justify his lawful world. This is literally the entire conversation between Yoko and Lilith after obliterating MC, Aogami and Tao, as well as the narration of prologue bits when you starting the game, after you become a Nahobino and Lilith's narration during one of the intermission cut. Mastema, Samael and the mimans also extends this lore in their dialogue bits when you do their quests. Yoko actively wants to recreate the world where people has their own free will and free from pre-determined destiny and blind faith, essential erasing Marduk's world that she despised so much.

[@Jeff-tt7wj]

@@shinyanakagawa8241 wasn’t the goddess Tiamat? I didn’t get from that dialogue that Yoko was the goddess.

[@shinyanakagawa8241]

​@@Jeff-tt7wj Tiamat is one of the Primordial goddesses and was one of the serpent gods that was killed by Marduk. Yuko's power is not Tiamat's. The Qadistu needed Tiamat because she was their primal Mother and her empty shell is needed for them to claim the Throne of Creation. Yuko leans towards the Qadistu only because she needed some assistance to realize her ambition and the Qadistu happened to have similar objective. Just like Tao, Yoko was a goddess. Tao was one of Amaterasu's avatar and Yoko was one of primordial gods avatar that was killed and sealed away by Marduk. If you actually attentive to every details sprinkled in the game and not only focused on the voiced cutscenes, you would probably understand the story better.

[@noway7774]

​@@shinyanakagawa8241 Marduk was not the God killed by Lucifer. Marduk was just a previous holder of the throne (like Baal and Ra) who cursed it to only accept fellow Horned Gods. The God Lucifer kills is heavily implied to YHVH due to all the pseudonyms given to him like "God of Law" and "The Creator", which are also how he's referred to in other SMT games. The Bull God vs Snake God depiction is in reference to how in real life, the Gods usually seen as 'heroes' or revered by society possess bull-like qualities and the evil gods/beings destroyed by those heroes possess snake-like qualities. That's why all the known previous holders of the Throne in SMT V's lore (Marduk, Baal, Ra, YHVH, and even Susano-o) have some connection to a serpent being slain in their stories (Tiamat, Ym, Apep, Leviathan, and Yamato-no-Orochi).

[@AnonYmous-hj1tb]

I wanted to buy it for all the female demon feet tho

[@shanehamilton5622]

Have people told you you sound like Sam Harris?

[@Bringingmoneyback]

I'm just happy that laumu got nerfed hated that boss

[@Bringingmoneyback]

So what I got from this video is a couple of things. One is that I really like the concept of this game. Just not how it's delivered as you've said and two Lucifer is the goedfroy of smt5

[@standheaykic66]

So you're telling me the spin-off series of this game is still better than the main franchise? YES, and I'm tired pretending it is not.

[@phantomfenrir4976]

Strange Journey is goated along with Soul Hackers but imo the absolute best game is SMT IV.

[@standheaykic66]

@phantomfenrir4976 Yeah, I play almost SMT series in 3DS. Ironically, the story is better when presented in visual novel style.

[@dannyd4339]

No, the answer is no. A pulish trd is still a trd

[@HashBandicoot356]

I finished the original recently and loved it. I don’t care that much about story. When it’s good in a game it’s just like a bonus.

[@saeedn3502]

Dude, the way you speak is similar to Sam Harris, the author of "The Moral Landscape" and a podcaster on KZbin. Just saying.

[@telerobotic]

Algo offering

[@Naan_Cents]

I’m curious, is the game challenging?

[@ratatoskr6324]

Yes.

[@jeremyabrahamson2872]

Does it have a First Person Mode?

[@BobDylan-ho2gd]

Holy shit You play SMT? Awesome.

[@cavsfightingroom3692]

I really don't get why ppl say the OG V was bad lol. I found it fantastic and SMTVV is even better in every way

[@lonely_hermit]

The game was great, the only problem was the story

[@XenogearsForever]

The story was/is dogshit. It's bland, clearly unfinished, and many of the human characters easily forgotten. You must think dirt on the floor is entertaining. These devs do this with many of their games, re-releasing the finished product 1-2 years later. Pathetic and a scam. SMTV:V is great, the version that should have released from the start. This is confusing for you I know, here's a lollipop. 🍭 lol

[@TheRoleplayer40k]

@@lonely_hermitand sadly the story is the most important thing for me Good gameplay can almost never rescue a single player game for me

[@lonely_hermit]

@@TheRoleplayer40k Same, that's why I dropped the vanilla game. I was interested in Yuzuru but the game did nothing about his character.

[@cabuya1697]

​​​​​​​@TheRoleplayer40k for me is the opposite when it comes to video games, gameplay loop and art style is the most important thing for me to get me finish a 80-100 hours game, sure if the game is accompanied by a good story is more awesome to play but is not what is going to keep the controller on my hands. If I wanted a good story I would choose a diferent medium like watching a tv series or read a book or graphic novel, that's why I don't play "cinematic" games no more where the gameplay is on rails you barely give any real input and is all about the story and gameplay second.

[@KyngD469]

Sounds like it isnt worth a replay. Damn

[@KyngD469]

Ratatoskr, I just want to say you are my last bastion of hope for game reviews because you happen to enjoy the few series I also enjoy. That being Souls games and SMT games. Lately SMT has been losing my interest and you have basically spelled out why, that being the story. Most other reviews break their necks to upload a review calling this game a masterpiece, but you keep it a bean with me, and I appreciate that. Thank you for existing. Of all the reasons for the frenzied flame not to take the world, you are #1. Have a wonderful day.