Real Talk with Zuby #79 - Katharine Birbalsingh | Education & School Discipline

[@jimkennedy4509]

Love this woman! None of the bigotry of low expectations ! She rocks

[@MidwestNiceBand]

I didn't know who Ms. Birbalsingh was before she was on the Triggernometry podcast. Now I am a giant fan of hers. She's fantastic.

[@ZubyMusic]

She's awesome!

[@catwoman7462]

I'd heard of her because of the balloon going up over her talk at the Conservative Conference years ago. I'd have loved to have someone as passionate about education as she is when I was at school. I'd never heard of Zuby until his Triggernometry podcast and immediately became a fan of his podcasts (I'll give the rap a pass though!)

[@Peace_and_love_24]

@@ZubyMusic your awesome, you speak a lot of sense

[@Scopps94]

I grew up as an African kid in London, most of us come from strict homes, so if we enabled kids to act rude in school, they'll behave unruly. All kids need discipline and the UK experience is different from the USA experience. So identity politics does NOT belong in schools, especially for ethnic minorities that need to embrace education and order.

[@jimkennedy4509]

This is one passionate lady! Very impressive her students are lucky to have her.

[@simplymichka]

As a teacher I really enjoyed this episode. I loved her insights and I agree with her ideas on discipline and expectations.

[@700Verses]

I listened to this today on Spotify. Having listened to at least two or three dozen of your podcasts by now, this one is the best one I've heard so far. What a fantastic conversation! Thank you.

[@ZubyMusic]

Thanks for listening!

[@MrAdamconrad23]

She has great interviews on Rubin Report and Triggernometry too.

[@Raven5563]

I adore this woman! My Mom, my Grandmother, and my Great-Grandmother were all teachers. Black teachers. They would be in *violent agreement* with her! THIS is how you teach to empower.

[@ZubyMusic]

LOL. 'violent agreement'. I love that.

[@HDBerlin]

I love her, too, being half German half Indian I am fed up with the lack of values manifesting in BLM etc.

[@hm0780]

I love how Zuby always lets his guests speak instead of making the interview all about him.

[@cozyjoker]

Zuby - Thank you for brining us this talk with the fabulous Katherine Birbalsingh whom I would never would have heard about until today.

[@SuperTuffgirl]

Yes! Children thrive with good structure. Bravo!! Strong leaders like her are so desperately needed everywhere. In every field, in every industry.

[@burleybater]

Ah Zuby, I'm really going to enjoy this one. Katharine is one of my favorite people in the world. I'm a big fan (I have her books.) I work in higher education, and I've been digging into educational philosophy like a mad mole for a decade now. Katharine always reminds me of one of the best teachers I ever had in school (grade 7) - the one who woke up the slumbering intellectual beast in me, and taught me that I was too curious about everything, to stay dumb. When you're a kid supposedly tracked on a lifetime of fate's folly, to be eternally mired in the thousand reasons supposedly why you can't succeed in life, and then given that shove to take that right turn, and never look back... That teacher recognized that I could read like a crazy thing, and that this was the key to me - and my key to the world. Ms. Birbalsingh - burbling and bubbling brook of educational common sense that she is, I think shames the Educationalistas out there who wish to "own" the correctness of intelligence. As if they ever could. These crime bandits would stand between every kid and their eventual awakening into the great mad joy of learning. Just that. So imagine how embarrassed they must be, how truly red-faced they become when the idiocy of their indoctrination comes clean, clear and revealed for what it is: That they would doom half a billion kids to functional illiteracy just to prove a political point. As if what kids don't need is knowledge (but instead, "correctness.") I'm not surprised she makes them bristle. Kids need heroes too. The kind that open up the universe for them, instead of erecting around them the prison walls of ignorance. And the fact that the proof is in the pudding. The results. Inner city kids from poor backgrounds are supposed to validate the ideology of "privilege." Which they don't have any of. Except that actually, they do. The privilege of educational practice that works for real. Okay. On the soft bigotry of low expectations: I'm saying this as the kid I was, who struggled through the early years of school as a ne'er do well, a social outcast, a misfit and I'm sure the one who everyone in my school thought would wind up as an alcoholic, a drug addict, a criminal, a hobo, or god knows what else. Except that besides all that, I could read. And although for a long time I kept my smarts to myself (while struggling with the social shit) it was how and why I could read what I did (including blundering into James Baldwin at the age of 12). The world of books was wide open to me. No-one controlled that world. Nothing was censored. Not one word, one page, was altered in any way. It was all just sitting there for me to find. So I did. My theory is this: That in this era of feminist theory, post modern theory, post truth thought (what the hell IS that?) everything genderfied, racial......okay, look. I loved Jack London's books as a kid. The adventures. And then I stumbled across his essay, The Yellow Peril. And I had to wrestle with that one a bit. It went against the grain. It pissed me off. But I read it because I was allowed to. Just as I was allowed to privately tell Jack to go to hell on that one. The bare beginnings of learning how to think critically. So compare that with our new improved ideas. How many years ago did those in charge of educating children, start going through the books? History, science, literature. And trying to figure out how to edit out all the stuff that they thought were the nasty bits? The whiteness, the supremacy, the racist and the sexist and the incorrect - until you wind up with a 400-page book reduced down to 25 pages, that doesn't even make sense anymore. But they don't even do that now. They just re-write the canon and turn it into correct dogma. And believe me, it's lousy writing. It's garbage. I'm the son of a writer. I know what good writing is, how it scans, why it works. And it is not vocab-alterations like problematic and postionality. (my spell-check doesn't like that second word, and neither do I.) If I'd had to read that shite as a kid, I would have stopped reading. So I make note to myself: no wonder kids don't read anymore, if this is what they're served. Christ. There are so many more things that compete with a book, in a kid's life now, than there were when I was a kid. A kid hardly stands a chance. And it pisses me off. Because kids did not make the world they're growing up in. Adults did. And responsible and accountable adults need to step up to the plate. And make it right. The "woke" guys. (who are mostly women now, by the way) - although I didn't see a male teacher until grade 8 and before that the ladies never did me any harm - are not awake, aware, alive, alert but kind of nestled into a zombie stupor. They are offering kids nothing much more than a Get Out Of School Free card. And of course the kids are gonna be all over that like a dirty shirt. I think what woke folk maybe hate most about a place like Michaela is that what is taught there is knowledge, not "correctness." Knowledge - it's up to the kids to figure out what to do with it once they've got it. Which is how it should be. And that must drive the wokers mad. For them the key to success is not knowledge at all. It is ownership and control. Of course they're going to be shivering on a stick if their methods are contrasted with teaching that actually does work. School rules that actually make sense. An environment that inspires kids to get on board and cooperate. This all makes the wokers look like idiots. Whether they have, or think they have a better idea or not, the results prove they're failing. I'll jump down off my soapbox now. Except I have to say this. Education did not teach me how to be good, to be moral, to be righteous, to be a humanitarian (which I've always preferred to today's "humanist.") Education did one thing for me. It taught me how to learn, and that I was in fact, capable of learning. And that the rest was up to me. So when I descend upon a bookshelf buried away deep in the heart of my university library system, like a mad miner, looking for that exceptional gem - and I find it...I'm that same insatiably curious 5 year-old I used to be. And at my age, that's going some. Any kid can have that. Any kid. And well they should. One of my favorite fantasies is one day making a pilgrimage from Canada to London in order to visit Michaela school. It is obviously a place set up and dedicated to a love of kids, and a love of learning. Honesty, truth and beauty. If truth is not central to an education, than an education does not exist. A+ on this one, Zuby. One of the best interviews for both of you. The Trump detention laugh was a beautiful moment.

[@alejandroalessandro7820]

I'm a high school teacher in Scotland... She speaks so much sense. Put her in touch with Nicola Sturgeon.

[@HDBerlin]

Right, where are you from, a Spaniard or Latino in cold Scotland? How is it going there?

[@MrAdamconrad23]

I taught in mostly inner city schools for a decade and I can say with absolute certainty more educators really need to hear what this woman says.

[@ragamuffinhooligan4019]

Did the same in NYC & wanted to replicate my country man Dr E.R. Braithwaite (To Sir With Love)! Unfortunately, a 7th grader struck me across the face & I had the gall to return the favor. Fool stop.

[@NH-tg1rb]

What a great person! Inspiring! Great interview man, bravo.

[@roriemarie2968]

My oldest son works with children and would love this headmistress. He's constantly fighting the identity politics and the BS. He's still in college and looking to go into teaching full time possibly but all of the identity BS is a great deterrent for him. And they always try to pinpoint what he is his name is Diego he's hispanic but white green eyes and blondish hair LOL I live in the US and Spanish people are supposed to be dark and oppressed ...I myself have red hair and white as copy paper... one child my son teaches, who has nothing wrong with him actually has a helper that goes to school with him to help him tie his shoes feed him. when my son asked him to do something he does it when anybody else ask him to do something he whines and complains because he knows he could get away with it. But not with Mr Diego!

[@pete6300]

I love her passion and energy for what she does.

[@kikiursalone]

I think words cannot sufficiently express how much I adore this woman!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you so much for this episode Zuby!!!!!!! To Katharine, please continue the wonderful work you do and hopefully you get better soon as you sadly sounded quite poorly but yet your passion, unrivalled!!!!!!! Sending you love and best wishes, God bless!!!!!!

[@jnjstroud]

Exactly, STOP enabling victim mentality into our kids. Reason why we pulled our own kids from public school. They held my kids hands because they were black...WHAT?! Oh hell no. Pulled their behinds ASAP.

[@roriemarie2968]

My friend who happens to be black, has a extremely gifted son. And when I say gifted I mean this child was putting words together from letters that I had on my refrigerator before the age of 2. What then? Hold him back because he is black? Coddle him and not challenge him ?These so-called well-intentioned people are committing crimes against humanity. I could not even begin thinking that because somebody came from a certain background or has a certain level of melatonin in their skin, they would not be able to do something... it's outrageous. And that this cancer is permitting in our schools whether it be here in the US or there in the UK is doing such a disservice to a generation.

[@rauratana1964]

Love this lady. Our teachers are and have been taken for granted for so long.

[@larissamartinsen4166]

Katharine is an enthusiastic and SENSIBLE educationalist.

[@roriemarie2968]

Great conversation. I honestly wish that I would have been harder on one of my sons that was rather difficult. He is a barber now doing great loves his job great at it very artistic but still there's always the hindsight and what my husband and I could have done better. I wish more teachers were like this headmistress.

[@JNYC-gb1pp]

Sadly, lessons WILL be learned at some point; either through parents at home OR on your own as an adult And it's a lot harder learning it as an adult on your own.

[@sosaysthecaptain5580]

I wish I’d had teachers like this

[@Richard-Freeman]

14:05 NO!!! He sat for 30 minutes without making a peep. Perhaps when he bothers his mummy, she snaps at him! Perhaps he learned that the way to keep the peace is to *manage his dear mother's emotions*. How does a child that young know to keep their mouth shut? THEY WERE TRAINED TO DO SO!

[@tourmaline7385]

I totally agree with her. The ONLY opportunity some kids have to gain the cultural capital they need to be successful as adults is school. I’m so glad she’s giving it to them!

[@horaciomontes6154]

Excellent interview!!! Subscribed!

[@kylepirigyi9347]

Common sense/"conservative" and gifted teachers are such jewels in today's weird world.

[@Bookish1995]

Fellow teacher here!

[@SuperTuffgirl]

I love “Ms_Snuffy”!

[@f3aok]

Shock horror discipline in schools😱 don't understand why this school is controversial it sounds like what the majority of schools were like until fairly recently. It obviously works. This headteacher is a breath of fresh air and an inspiration.👍

[@justwrongright4977]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.........

[@JNYC-gb1pp]

...still hell though no matter how it got there!

[@justwrongright4977]

@@JNYC-gb1pp indeed, but that is the worst possible environment for children to try to grow and mature in, I went to school in southeast London all my childhood from the 80s and I can say it was hell.

[@Uppernorwood976]

Katharine is such a positive person. It’s clear she really cares about her pupils, I’m not surprised they thrive in the culture of her school. She’s so right that if you love your children you need to give them discipline. Children like pushing against boundaries and finding the limit, they don’t like having no boundaries at all. That’s what liberals get wrong. Children who misbehave do it because they are desperate for an adult to correct them.

[@lshinobi9999]

This is a discussion , can't believe I didn't see this sooner.

[@grahammitchell6681]

Katharine is fantastic and it sounds like her school is what schools should be doing: giving their kids an education in a British pride-rich environment and they need not be defined by their race or poverty. I definitely saw this in my school where children were becoming obsessed with identity whether race, heritage or gender, but not their British or English identity, and they felt they couldn't behave or work or be punished because of their identities, and I felt I couldn't go any further, like I was being shut up. I hated who I was becoming and felt I had no power and no confidence in the education system, so I had to leave. I wish more schools used her ideas.

[@JLaw954]

Discipline is essential to every organization - that is pointless to debate. Discipline is geared to teaching why X is wrong and why Y is right. Discipline hurts most those who receive it the least. Punishment is the problem. Is punishment the only way to getting a child to remember to bring a pen next time? I think not. I worked in the worst inner-city schools in London as a supply teacher for two years. Why? Because I wanted to understand why schools fail and I learned a lot. When you put kids into detention teach them something while you have them there. I once had a kid on Saturday detention and made him pick up garbage from the ground for three hours. Then I made him see that this was his future if he didn't learn to behave better in school. He is now an engineer rather than a low-skilled, lowly-paid, uneducated dolt who hated his life. Freedom is such a misunderstood term. Social freedom implies restriction so that we can all be free, it does NOT mean that we can all do as we please, that's licence which usually isn't good.

[@badassdahn654]

How do I get my kids into her school! I’m not anywhere near London. Any plans to expand the school up north

[@aosseily]

love her

[@MidgetMalone]

/Standing Ovation!

[@FiremarshalM1]

Worth your time. Amazing. 💖🕯👌🏼 And "kissing teeth" must be Sucking-teeth? A gesture used to express annoyance, disrespect, rudeness also known as a "stupes" or "stiups"? I thought I posted Michael Smith's TEDTALK that she referenced. It's here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z3XbeX9onpiWkNE

[@tourmaline7385]

I just had an epiphany. Myself and my conservative friends are most concerned about underprivileged kids being undereducated or left behind more during This crazy corona virus but Facebook friends who are teachers and my more liberal friends are more concerned about the virus. I live in a state that hasn’t had a single person under the age of 25 due of COVID. We know we can support our children’s education while they are home, not everyone can. Why don’t the progressives see this? They are fighting like mad to keep the schools closed or virtual/on campus (referred to as the hybrid model here in the U.S.).

[@harrymills2770]

Can't have freedom without a responsible electorate.

[@cool_cat007smoove3]

Some what a Swedish society norm