Reconstructing the History of the Qur'anic Text | Hythem Sidky

[@kaiserbeigh]

The question how did the people of kufa read the utmani codex is the same way that a qari read the codex in the Birmingham museum which was without diacritics and nakaat with the help of his memory

[@josephjude1290]

The Book of Mormon too has not been changed. Does not mean it’s true

[@A.--.]

The story (narrative) is credible!....MIC 🎤 drop!

[@canusapak7535]

Are these manuscripts dated to Uthmans time or to Abdul Maliks time? Can shoemakers theory be valid or not?

[@zeustn9525]

Shoemaker (and Guillaume Dye) practically ignore the manuscripts and therefore their theories are mere intellectual masturbation. It would have worked maybe 40 years ago but not since the carbon dating of the past 20 years or so

[@StatisticalCat]

These Qurans can be dated back to Uthman times. At least some of them. Shoemaker is an Islamophobe so we have look at his research and the personal biases that have gone into it

[@canusapak7535]

@@StatisticalCat how is Shoemaker an Islamophobe? Is it because Muslims don't like his research?

[@Fay1298]

@@StatisticalCat Why is it when someone wants to question the validity of a claim is accused of being a “something-phobic”? Is it because they maybe threatening common beliefs that can be refuted?

[@StatisticalCat]

@@Fay1298 mostly people who want to question the validity of a claim are non scientific and have biases. They view and discern things with thier biases. Hence they are called something phobic. If one is a bigot he/she has to accept that he is a bigot.

[@traveleurope5756]

Uthman’s canonization looks like a governmental project. But why would Uthman even think about canonization of the Quran before minting an Islamic/Quranic coin? Abdl Malik did both and that makes more sense!

[@etzelkaplan9677]

bible confessed. Jeremiah 8 8 ; scribes falsified the bible with their lying pens ' hence christianity today in steep decline. usa today ' today islam is second most followed religion in 22 u s states and growing today 61 percent of Americans do not believe Jesus is god '

[@mashruralam5795]

I think Marwan and Muawiya were some type of heretical Christian/Jewish hybrid who had a syriac Quran. I think Abdl Malik then turned that into an Arabic Quran.

[@Matt-f8e]

On the fact that the contemporary location of manuscripts often does not line up with its “regionality”, a possible good illustration is the Kufic Quran today kept in Tashkent.

[@A.--.]

It would be more accademic and professional if Hythem gave examples on the screen to see if his interpretation methodology. He is just making hypothesis after hypothesis as if they are facts .

[@exceptionallymaybe]

Yup.. I think he is too confident.. im glad that reynolds keep chasing him with questions at min 10+

[@A.--.]

@@mostarac7297 well if he is trying to convey a message and the students are requesting visual aids rather than a man speaking like a disclaimer add, it becomes professional to use them. Genetic codes and mutation mechanics follow a pattern foxed by God (eg random mutation, deletion, mismatching, splicing, breakage, translocations, post traslational etc) but this mechanism does not convey over to manuscript transmission and veriation. Thats why we need visual aids and 0.5X speed to analyze what exactly he did and peer review his steps. If the 2 mechanisms are fundamentally different then comparing their evolutionary convergence/divergence (variance) is a flawed merhadology. Its like comparing stars sprinkled in the night sky and pepper sprinkled on the dinner table and trying to construct some sort of relationship between them. He zipps right over his methodology and wants us to focus on the patterns....im sure there are corelatable patterns in star dispersement and pepper dispersement comparisons as well but that would be an Observer Bias.

[@dialectic2869]

addressing some comments... First of all, what you hoped for from the video does not support what you want. Secondly, I notice that Muslims have an inferiority complex and want to attack others instead of sticking to the subject. Thirdly, the works of Aristotle and Plato are preserved, and not only one book, but books, If the standard of your faith is to preserve the books, then you must build the temple of Aristotle and start praying to him. Fourthly, the Torah and the Bible are major sources for many of the texts of the Quran. If you attack the original texts upon which the Muslims relied, you challenge the credibility of the Quran itself. Your Quran is basically what others have been debating about before Muhammad, which means it's not an original text in the first place, so preserving it does not indicate what is true or false.

[@kinanlaham744]

If """the Torah and the Bible are major sources for many of the texts of the Quran""" why does the Qur'an present shared stories with different details instead of simply maintaining the original stories as is? Why did the Qur'an reject the trinity? Why did the Qur'an deny the crucifixion of Jesus? Why God in the Qur'an does not beget and was not begotten (unlike the bible where Jesus is the son of God, and David is His firstborn)? Etc.

[@user-ev8lv2rk8i]

@@kinanlaham744because there were many other Jewish/christian texts that got utilised besides the bible

[@kinanlaham744]

@@user-ev8lv2rk8i "because there were many other Jewish/christian texts that got utilised besides the bible" You make it sound like there was a public library full of Jewish and Christian books down the street where Muhammad was living in Arabia. Your "many other Jewish/christian texts that got utilised" theory doesn't hold because the Qur'an challenges the core ideas in Christianity like the crucifixion, for instance.

[@jagdishmadgaonkar]

Watch rob Cristian showing the differences in the hafs and warsh quran on his channel where he explains this in details.

[@Kırçiçeğiyim]

Haha 😂😂 no

[@StatisticalCat]

Don't mislead others by citing Roh Christian. His name shows his baises

[@Ruhel74]

Quran is almost entirely preserved according to current evidence including Sana palimpsest. It averts the criticisms easily faced by Christianity/Judaism. But even assuming authenticity of the Quran to the time of the Prophet, it is clearly a product of its time and age. Everyday Muslims would do well to actually read the Quran like a book and listen to their own natural reaction to it.

[@toomanymarys7355]

No, it doesn't, given that the traditions explicitly record that at least a third went missing before the Uthmanic Quran. If you say the 66% you have left is pretty well preserved then okay, but nothing matches the Sana rasm perfectly

[@Ruhel74]

@@toomanymarys7355 you’re invoking Hadith, which I suspect you must be very sceptical about, to support your view that a third of the Quran was missing, 200 years prior to the documenting of the Hadith? Methinks you support text when you it suits you only. Ultimately there is at the moment insufficient evidence to move the needle either way on Quranic authenticity, but it doesn’t matter as the Quran even at face value is vulnerable to all sorts of critique. Doesn’t benefit to try and equate Quran with the massive gaping flaws in Christian/Jewish scripture which Islam-bashers would like to do of course including when it somehow validates Christians and Jews struggling with the argument that their scripture is inferior. Also can you cite the Hadith you rely on ?

[@toomanymarys7355]

@@Ruhel74 I throw out ahadith that contradict with the narrative of the Qur’an and with history. If they match what could have plausibly happened, I usually accept them for lack of anything better. You are the one taking the POV that Islam's most precious sources are corrupted and that shows the Quran, another precious source, isn't. Odd take.

[@ClaimClam]

🔥🔥🔥

[@asattar973]

Allhamudulillah.... So Quran is intact and will remain till end of days... On the other hand. No one knows who wrote last 5 books of Moses... Who changed Jeramiaha.

[@jagdishmadgaonkar]

Uthman burnt all the other Qur'ans and what we have now is the recitation of hafs not the original quran of Uthman

[@jagdishmadgaonkar]

Does anyone know where is the original quran of Uthman

[@anthonyal-qurayshi]

I don't think that this video entails such a conclusion at all.

[@santhiramorgan8329]

WHY BRING 'WHO WROTE THE TORAH' WHEN THE SUBJECT OF DISCUSSION IS THE QURAN.

[@jma7600]

⁠@@jagdishmadgaonkar There is no historical evidence for the existence of someone called Uthman except in muslim narratives.

[@Kırçiçeğiyim]

MasaAllah sübhanAllah

[@2Sage-7Poets]

reconstructing..

[@dom3073]

Alhamdullilah Quran is preserved to the tongue of the Blessed Prophet unlike the Old And New Testament which are riddled with forgeries, corruption and alterations.

[@declansceltic198]

Disappointing that you’re so eager to attack other faiths on a video which is solely about Islam.

[@davidzack8735]

This guy is rambling and inarticulate and pausing all the time unable to finish a coherent sentence. Dismal.

[@declansceltic198]

Could you do better?

[@davidzack8735]

@@declansceltic198 Yes, I could. I'm a trained teacher, though.

[@declansceltic198]

@@davidzack8735 If you’re a teacher, I would hope you’re better at offering constructive criticism to your students - I’d be deeply unhappy if any teacher gave my child the feedback you just offered.

[@davidzack8735]

@@declansceltic198 This guy is not a child, bro. 😂

[@declansceltic198]

@@davidzack8735 So only children get constructive criticism?

[@alandee5112]

You all are crazy because you want to treat Koran as Amazon book. Allah said it was send down by pure angel to the heart of the prophet 💖

[@declansceltic198]

That’s what Muslims believe, to the rest of us, it’s just a foreign book.

[@toomanymarys7355]

Allah lied.

[@broken7816]

@@toomanymarys7355tell him that when you meet him 😂😂