Refuting Those "Flat Earth Bible Verses": You Should Have Checked the Context.

Thanks to @damianized for providing these time stamps!
0:00 Intro
3:28 “Ends of Earth”
12:49 Biblical Earth rotation
18:22 signet-ring/seal translation to prove some FE argument with Job quote
29:10 “The earth is My footstool”
32:48 “Pillars of the earth”
37:12 “Cornerstone”
41:22 “Circle of the earth”
45:45 “Vault of heaven”
45:42 “Corners of the earth”
49:56 “Foundations of the earth”
52:56 "Waters under earth"
57:03 The earth is a "plateau"?
59:47 “Four corners of the earth” revisited
1:03:31 "End of the whole earth”
1:05:32 How did Jesus see "all the kingdoms" of the world from a mountain?
1:16:00 Ball or sphere diction
1:17:20 What about the sun stopping in Joshua?
1:19:16 What if the Bible did teach a flat earth?
1:22:51 What about scholars who think the Bible teaches a flat earth?
1:23:58 Firmament stuff
1:32:20 Stars falling from heaven + celestial body stuff
Here's how this video is going to be different than what some people would expect.
1- If you are a flat-earther you are welcome here. I'm not here to mock anyone. I respect people on both sides of the issue.
2- I'm not going to get side-tracked on questions about geocentricity, the firmament, or ANE views outside the Bible. I'm just focusing on the flat earth question.
3- I'm going to methodically handle the proof-texts used by flat earth proponents to support their views. I only want to ask "do these verses support a conclusion that the Bible teaches a flat earth?"
4- I'm not interested, in this teaching, about what "science says" or questions of conspiracies. I'm only asking about the Bible.
The simple method here is to have a sober look at the passages used to support a flat earth theory and show what they are really saying, in context. This video is meant to be a helpful resource for those who sincerely want to ask whether or not the Bible, on it's own, is teaching a flat earth.
Links you may be interested in.
The full Dean Odle video I played clips of (really bad exegesis) • Video
Strong's concordance for "platus" www.biblestudytools.com/lexic...
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[@MikeWinger]

Thanks to @damianized for providing these time stamps! 0:00 Intro 3:28 “Ends of Earth” 12:49 Biblical Earth rotation 18:22 signet-ring/seal translation to prove some FE argument with Job quote 29:10 “The earth is My footstool” 32:48 “Pillars of the earth” 37:12 “Cornerstone” 41:22 “Circle of the earth” 45:45 “Vault of heaven” 45:42 “Corners of the earth” 49:56 “Foundations of the earth” 52:56 "Waters under earth" 57:03 The earth is a "plateau"? 59:47 “Four corners of the earth” revisited 1:03:31 "End of the whole earth” 1:05:32 How did Jesus see "all the kingdoms" of the world from a mountain? 1:16:00 Ball or sphere diction 1:17:20 What about the sun stopping in Joshua? 1:19:16 What if the Bible did teach a flat earth? 1:22:51 What about scholars who think the Bible teaches a flat earth? 1:23:58 Firmament stuff 1:32:20 Stars falling from heaven + celestial body stuff

[@bensoumokil]

If the moon is millions miles away how can you see clouds behind the moon? Your thumbnail isn’t correct either just to point that out. That not how flat earth is. Go back and read Genesis again.

[@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538]

@@bensoumokil you can’t. Light reflected off the moon shines through thin clouds making them APPEAR to be behind the moon. Use proper light filters and exposure levels and you will see that the clouds are, in fact, in front of the moon.

[@bensoumokil]

@@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538 you make it way to complicated then it needs to be. It’s pretty simple.

[@bensoumokil]

@@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538 you can see the clouds behind the moon. Do you ever look at the moon with clouds behind it? Trust your eyes and not science.

[@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538]

@@bensoumokil “trust your eyes, not science”?! Tell that to a blind person. And who said anything about science. I said use a proper filter and adjust the exposure levels on your camera. Then it will become clear that the clouds ARE NOT BEHIND THE MOON. After all, if you’re going to rely on pictures taken with your camera, you MIGHT wanna use it properly. They’re just thin clouds with light shining through them so they APPEAR like they’re behind it. But they are NOT.

[@realitywins6457]

The old joke comes to mind, “I can do all things through a verse taken out of context.”

[@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538]

Jesus said, “you have heard ‘an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’” THERE YOU HAVE IT! Jesus advocated revenge! LOL

[@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538]

@A Lucky Man! brilliant! I’ve always wanted to know why the Bible tells me God will give me everything I ask for (John 16:23) and I have yet to become a rich, Hollywood, blockbuster filmmaker.

[@matthewchubre2631]

@@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538 it’s not always what you want is best

[@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538]

@@matthewchubre2631 literal interpretation, ANYTHING you ask for believing, he will give.

[@abaneyone]

Paul got stoned. :/

[@toolegittoquit_001]

I'm sure all the comments will be polite and reasonable.

[@nikao7751]

Yeah I still believe in miracles too.

[@paulofthewoods0787]

With God all things are possible.

[@somethinggood9267]

Teehee at this thread

[@somethinggood9267]

@@paulofthewoods0787 do you live in the woods?

[@paulofthewoods0787]

@@somethinggood9267 it's pretty wooded here.

[@lookslikeiwin]

I love how KZbin is giving a Wikipedia article as context against flat earthism as if it is better evidence than your explanations lmao.

[@dux657]

Actually that Wikipedia article says that the bible indeed portrays a flat earth.

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

@@dux657 Where is your evidence, troll?

[@jeremiahwasabearfrog9956]

It's because he's a Christian. They probably believed he would promote flerfism thanks to all the other flerfs who make Christians look stupid.

[@jwb4bb]

With regards to Isaiah 40:22, circle is translated as " חוּג " which Strongs H2329 defines as a circle, circuit (think race track) or compass (like you navigate with). How does one get to a "sphere" knowing those aspects of the definition of "circle"?

[@mrcubsfan97]

‭Romans 1:25 ESV‬ [25] because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. It takes a lot of pride swallowing to allow yourself to be a flat earther. Luckily I don't think it's a salvation issue. It's the devil's tower of Babel. He confused the language of the Bible with a lie about the globe. Christians are taught to think that the Bible is basically wrong because there is actually no up and down and God isn't literally above us. Funnily enough, the tower of Babel is probably the Bibles strongest evidence of the truth of our world. If they were just going to build a tower to outer space, why didn't God let them?

[@otisphoenix1017]

How do you get to South Korea traveling west if the earth was flat?

[@jwb4bb]

@@otisphoenix1017 traveling “west” is traveling clockwise around the watch face or compass. “East” is counter clockwise.

[@kellydecamp3656]

A sphere is a type of circle like a square is a type of a rectangle. Or like a cube is a type of square; when you look at it from one side it looks like a square. And he explains the old Hebrew didn’t have a word specific for a sphere/3D circle. A 3D circle was just called circle. To get a little more trippy: A Tesseract is a fourth dimensional square, which if someone saw a representation of that, they might describe as a square or a cube. Anyway I don’t want to put so much focus on the shape of one of God’s creations; it’s much better to focus on the person of Jesus and to learn more about his heart. What is the shape of his heart. ♥️🫀❤️‍🔥💒🌏 And the Bible says the spirit can help us know the mind of God! He has much more important things on his mind! So much more to explore. Although we should all ask him directly for wisdom on the shape of the world and be willing to accept whatever he would want to show us. And knowing his heart is what will fill us with love, power and peace.

[@jwb4bb]

@@kellydecamp3656 NASA controls the church. In Isaiah 22:18, he uses the word “dur” for ball in that verse. This means he knows the difference between a ball and a circle. Isaiah wasn’t a dummy. He was inspired and literate. Don’t makes excuses for Babylon, be not conformed to this world.

[@karlie9590]

My main issue with this, regardless of whether I agree with flat earth or not, is that , it seems like people who come up with these ideas or new understandings , is that it becomes such a huge focus. Whether the earth is flat or not shouldn’t be the main issue...how does that help anyone come to Jesus? It seems to just distract from the preaching of the Gospel. All the “issues” and little things that are dividing Christians is sad to me. Thanks for this channel ....I really enjoy listening to your explanations on the various topics.

[@FaithfulNation]

It's true that this can become too big of a focus, however, the same can be said about young earth creation. Young earth creation is an important topic because the integrity of God's word is at stake. Those of us who believe in geocentrism and/or flat earth view the topic in a similar manner. We believe it's important because of the integrity of God's word. And not only that, if the earth and heaven, sun, moon and stars are all that there is (as the bible presupposes), then that means that there's no possibility of evolution, big bang, etc. Big bang and evolution can only work in the heliocentric ever expanding universe model.

[@christinabrenneman7641]

My parents and other family have become flat earthers and this is always my basic question as well.

[@kathierouse5306]

I still believe that satan will use any distraction to keep Christians from sharing the Gospel. I have said this many times--what does the shape of the earth have to do with eternity??? Have you ever heard of Dr Jason Lisle? He's an astrophysicist and a Christian. There's an interview he did with Justin Peters on KZbin. He gives scientific and mathematical facts regarding the flat earth theory. I have a suspicion that the flat earthers also believe that we didn't go to the moon or do any space exploration. Dr Lisle discusses this also. I hope you will see the interview. It's very eye opening! 😊👍🤗

[@FaithfulNation]

@@kathierouse5306 Correct, we do deny the moon landings. The moon landings are an obvious hoax. It's more challenging to deal with the ball earth deception than the moon landings. Even people who believe in ball earth understand how fake the moon landings were. Regarding distractions, flat earth is no more a distraction than defending creation against evolution, as I stated previously. Those who argue against either/or are similar to those who say we shouldn't focus on "doctrine" and should focus on "Jesus". Well, you can't know who Jesus is if you have false doctrine about who he is. And you can't know God if you believe in myths about his creation because his creation displays his character.

[@truesoundboy1]

It is dependent on the reliability of the bible...so it has implications for the reality of christ

[@bridgcofarm2635]

That part in Job where it says, “and everything under the heavens” is what sets the verse apart. He isn’t just speaking about people, he is speaking about it all- all the way to the end. The others are speaking in relative terms.

[@RCSNIPER34]

Every time I watch one of Mike's videos, it reminds me of how much I need to practice my humility, patience and understanding with others, especially on the internet. People are so quick to say many things they would never say to a stranger in real life, and I am very guilty of that. Mike, I just wanted to say thank you for being such a great example of what a Christian should act like. I really appreciate all of your hard work and effort that you put into all of your videos. I'm currently on the 6th video in your "Jesus in the Old Testament" Bible study playlist, and it has literally blown my mind and really expanded my knowledge and understanding of the Old Testament. I pray God continues to bless you as you are constantly blessing others with your online Bible content. I love you brother!

[@josephsarkes]

Good for you for humbling yourself, remember Jesus, how patient he was! Even when he was being killed he told God to forgive those who Pierced him. Even in death he was not driven to anger! Remember brother, this does not mean dont confront false teachings, no one can guide you on what to say except the Holy Spirit, when the time comes God will give you the words. And if you cannot hear God's voice telling you what to do and say, ask for the Holy Spirit so he can guide you on what to do. God bless you

[@kevinpulver4027]

@RCSNIPER34 My sentiments exactly! Mike and Ray Comfort are my examples of rising above controversy and not letting distractions stop your gospel presentation. Revelation says God will judge people out of the books he'll open. It occurs to me that if God simply opened facebook that one would be enough to judge most of us! (Sorry Pastor Mike for abusing the context)😂

[@markmatousek9427]

Great comments. I am challenged by Mikes videos to live out following Christ. God Bless You.

[@scott4981]

Anyway impediment not withstanding 4dendrites a tendril a synapses,4armedforces law enforcement government agents, 4cranial plates a brain stem a Brain, 4palm bones a thumb a left hand/spike in church or court,4foot bones a big toe a left kick off stage, 4major/minor prepuce a clit007, 4molarroots a grind surface a nerve, 5/6senses digits appendages like black cherry and blue flesh X-ray purple/monarchy feels good sunburn

[@WeDoLoveU]

However, thr truth need to be told. The Earth is flat, covered with Firmament. Because the Bible said so.

[@sbarker99]

Questionable inquiry. Couldn't the ends of the earth mean beyond what is known (mapped)?

[@cryptojihadi265]

Yes, but it varies by context, as he pointed out the verses that clearly meant Babylon, was the ends of the earth. But regardless, his point is that as weak as the ends of the earth argument means, as there are no ends on a globe or disc, it would be edges for a disc., the point remains, it's CLEARLY not literal. Therre are SO many Bible verses that clearly aren't literal and not even the most ardent FLERF would argue they ARE literal, but when it comes to their asinine theory, suddenly ALL of "their" verses MUST be taken literally. Yet even in our modern age, we talk about sunrise and sunset, we don't mean those LITERALLY, it's just a figurative way of saying what we observer. IMAGINE trying to LITERALLY describe a sunset or sunrise in everyday conversation. It would be unbelievably cumbersome and absurd. "This morning, I got up and watched the effect of the earth's rotation, so that the sun came back into view towards the east."

[@errata101]

Yes.

[@Tigerex966]

It does not teach flat earth or ball earth, and does not need too. It's about salvation and reconciliation.

[@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538]

Douay-Rheims Translation Isa 40:22, “God sits on his throne above the GLOBE of the Earth.”

[@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538]

@Betty Boop Douay-Rheims translation actually says specifically, GLOBE. Not circle. The original Hebrew word used in that passage even translates to SPHERE.

[@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538]

@Savin Bullets wrong when you consider that a circle only looks like a circle from 2 angles out of 360. All over angles it looks like an oval. Only one shape looks like a circle from any angle it’s viewed... and that’s a SPHERE. Which means even those other 50 can be argued to support the globe. Additionally, THE BIBLE IS NOT A SCIENCE BOOK. And all real science to test reality confirms that EARTH IS A GLOBE. Deal with it.

[@doug1863]

@The Barefoot Kid Isaiah 40:22 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition 22 It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth,

[@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538]

@Savin Bullets much like Nathan Roberts who did exactly the same thing by quoting a single passage out the Matthews Bible that says “flat earth.” A passage that, when read in context is just talking about A FIELD. At least the passage I quoted is actually talking about the earth itself. Not just one part of it. Earth is a globe. Deal with it.

[@user-yb5wz1to6k]

I spent 8 years at sea while serving in the USN. How does a flat-earther reconcile that if we set a steady course with no turns and did not have to adjust for latitude and longitude, since the earth is flat, and went in a straight line, wouldn’t we have hit an edge eventually??

[@chrisking6874]

Did you actually do this? Set a straight course and kept going?

[@user-yb5wz1to6k]

@@chrisking6874 No, of course not. Most of our deployments are well charted out, especially in high transit areas.

[@user-yb5wz1to6k]

We did however make a huge circle without the Officer of the Deck or CIC figuring it out!!

[@ig00g1e]

you can have latitude and longitude on a flat earth just like a globe. What do you mean, "straight line". if you fallow the equator, you'll just circumvent the flat disk.

[@Matthew-307]

Research operation hijump, operation fishbowl, operation deepfreeze. The US govt figured out the flat earth covered by a dome back in the 1930’s & 1940’s, Antarctica is the circular ice-wall edge. There are even old encyclopedia entries about the edge of the dome(firmament) in Antarctica.

[@timothyknox534]

Could the translation of "Earth" in some passages mean solid ground? As in where people live- sea faring aside, I've thought this meaning when reading myself.

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

Yes. 14:00

[@franciscafazzo3460]

Why didn't none of you look things up in research for yourselvevangelical Christians are filled with emotion ignorance and there's nothing in the scripture, especially with the king James, only folks I mean, these are American idiots just like our school system produces, you're all ignorant and and wilfully, so get a concordance, learn to read. God it's disgusting

[@vernoncandiotes143]

The thing flat-earthers fear the most is "sphere itself"

[@valeriereneeharper]

Or God

[@markbarnum3230]

In the last days there will be scoffers.

[@swiftxrapid919]

​@Mark Barnum yup they simply will ignore we can see too fare

[@Starfiber1]

Man that's a good pun haha

[@childofgod9648]

Why are you so concerned about what flat earthers think?

[@jefferygoldthorpe919]

I thought when you zoomed in on your cat you were going to go with the quote: "If the Earth were flat cats would have pushed everything off it by now."

[@catpocalypsenow8090]

They would freeze to death in Antarctica which circles the circle of the earth, underneath the vault of the sky.

[@johnsears5721]

Oh, man, I just spewed water all over my keyboard when I read that. That would have been perfect.

[@allnutturalrawthoughts7453]

Knowledge comes of as ignorance to those who choose to be ignorant. Just a bunch of ignorant, hypocritical believers who can't even see they contradict their own beliefs.

[@jeremiahwasabearfrog9956]

​@@allnutturalrawthoughts7453There's nothing in the Bible that clearly states the shape of the earth, believing your eyes and all available evidence regarding its shape does not make you a hypocrite. Star trails, sunrises/sunsets, constellations & the fact that every other celestial body is a sphere prove that the earth is spherical.

[@callingyouout6073]

Hey Mr. Winger just came across this video. Can you point out any specific scripture where the Bible says earth is a sphere in a vacuum? Thanks for the time.

[@divinityofblackness6330]

most of the time that I talk to a flat earther...it becomes clear to me that this is their gospel...not Jesus crucified. But the earth is flat. That is their focus. That is their God. That is what they love. Bottom line, I see no reason to argue this point at all. There are biblical points I believe in strongly about that I don't debate because they are not a part of the gospel nor anything worth paying any sort of attention to (at least for now).

[@truthblabber1968]

why was the sun stopped and not the earth stopped?

[@jessethomas3979]

Because God doesn't have to give Moses a course on cosmology before working his miracle...

[@jasonmcginnis]

@@jessethomas3979 but God is also not a liar.

[@contemplate-Matt.G]

@@jessethomas3979 By that logic, when the Bible states that the sun, moon, and stars were created within the firmament, we don't have to believe that because it wasn't a cosmology course. Keep listening to the atheistic, big-bang, evolutionistic scientists who tell you that the sun, moon, and stars are outside the firmament.

[@nicholaschrist1086]

God isn't a liar. But just as Mike points out, it is about perspective. There are no bars or doors holding the waters back on the beaches and coastlines nor do thoughts come from your physical heart...he speaks truths so we may comprehend them. Look at Jesus, God in flesh spoke in parables. Do you believe the kingdom of heaven looks exactly like a mustard seed that becomes a tree? Or do you believe heaven and hell are 100% accurately described in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus? Or possibly, God wrote things in a way that we could understand them.

[@contemplate-Matt.G]

@@nicholaschrist1086 The parables were spoken to the Jews by Jesus so that they wouldn't understand them. (Mat 13 13) If you understand the parables at all, they were prophecies regarding Israel. Lazarus and the rich man has nothing to do with heaven or hell. It's a reversal of those near and those far.....Jew and Gentile. The kingdom of God is, in fact, just as Jesus taught. It isn't a mustard seed that grows into a great tree but it is "like" that. It isn't a dragnet that gathers all manner of fish but it is "like" that. It isn't a wedding in which the original guests refuse to come but it is "like" that. Do you believe the "kingdom" of God is Israel ruling the Earth from Jerusalem for 1000 years? I hope not because that's not what Jesus nor Paul taught. I'm not sure of your point. Are you saying that God wrote untruths so we could understand truths? Your point seems to be that you also see how the Word states clearly that the lights of the firmament were placed by God INSIDE the firmament but in actuality, we know that they were placed outside the firmament as the atheists and evolutionists tell us. In your logic, God did this because we couldn't understand the concept of the lights being outside the firmament. If we get that information from evolutionists and atheists....then we can understand it but God has to write the opposite so we can understand it from our perspective. Do I have that right?

[@markaustin5269]

Interesting topic but not worth getting in a heated debate over. It's not like our salvation is dependent upon whether we believe the earth is flat or a sphere.

[@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538]

No, but some of these FLERFS actually believe that. Nathan Roberts, who wrote a book about this crap, believes that if you don’t think the earth is flat, you’re going to hell.

[@self-publishinghelp8596]

It’s not something to be ignored. Believing untruth always has consequences. The consequence of flat earthers claiming that they get this from the Bible has the effect of giving the nonbelievimg world grounds for thinking Christians are stupid, crazy, and anti-science. How many unbelievers are confirmed in their unwillingness to consider the Bible and the Christian faith and justify because of stuff like this is not a small consequence. Truth matters.

[@k-dawgwestmore4643]

True, but just because our salvation isn’t dependent on it, doesn’t mean that it isn’t worth speaking about

[@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538]

@@k-dawgwestmore4643 and doesn’t change the facts that the Bible isn’t a science book, and the earth is not flat. Earth is a globe.

[@k-dawgwestmore4643]

@@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538 Yeah I agree

[@dgb56bgd]

“I know I’m gonna get reamed…” I love you Pastor Winger. You often make me laugh, while teaching the Word of God to us. That’s a good gift to have. Praise the Lord. Amen 🙏. Blessings y’all.

[@TheJoker-um9tp]

What about the mention of the firmament in genesis? Whats thst referring to.?

[@rob41137]

Someone didn’t listen to the intro 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@otisphoenix1017]

It is referring to the atmosphere

[@neilmaass5007]

If you look at the Srrong's version of the word which is H7549 " רָקִיעַ râqı̂ya‛ raw-kee'-ah" it actually means expanse. The word was used for beating metal such as Gold or Silver until it expanded to a thin plate which they used for covering objects. Lots of Bibles use the word Expanse instead of firmament.

[@arielview6601]

The Angels are often called the stars of heaven.

[@angelsomebody2315]

ArielView And Angels and stars are used to describe Gods messengers (his people; evangelists) also. :)

[@arielview6601]

@@angelsomebody2315 well, I was referring to the Ben Elohiym, nor just messengers, or people.

[@joshuakainewillett9224]

ArielView I understood you. Elohim used throughout many translations for a handful of things. A lot of ppl think it’s usually referring to God, but that’s not true. It can also mean an angel or any powerful spiritual force. ☺️

[@joshuakainewillett9224]

perpetual eye it might be plain now, but there was nothing plain about it in the original text. During translation It was used in place of a handful of Hebrew words. Same as Lord & Elohim.Please receive this comment with love. I wasn’t trying to correct you... simply build of your point. God bless you!!

[@arielview6601]

@@joshuakainewillett9224 no, not really. I will not agree with that. The heavens and the earth were not created by angels or messengers.

[@thrawl]

The "ends of the earth" was just a really common saying meaning from super far away

[@fleurlewis]

Exactly , just like the term " The pillars of the earth " refers to its foundations not literally pillars..lol

[@dux657]

on a flat earth.....

[@waristerrorism651]

@@fleurlewis what is exactly the foundations of the globe ?🤔

[@fleurlewis]

@@waristerrorism651 why try to understand it in human terms.. does God who created all out of nothing need to hold the earth up with something of a physical means ? what about all the other planets and sun ..God has the means to hold each up in its orbit perfectly..

[@loganpharis6747]

@@waristerrorism651 The core

[@markussmith5818]

What do you think of Dr. Gerald Schroeders account of genesis 1?

[@yourssincerely442]

one does not need the bible to know what shape the earth is

[@trentstevenson5495]

I believe the Bible is literally true and scientifically accurate.

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

Listen to yourself. The Earth is a footstool? Just a suggestion: footstools are not flat.

[@trentstevenson5495]

@Truth hurts liars why whatever do you mean? 🤭

[@grandmawweslammedamidget]

1 Timothy 6:20 (KJV) O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

[@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538]

So where are the Koalas and Kangaroos in Mexico?

[@alohaohana901]

So when God called out to Adam and said "Adam, where are you?", you think that literally meant God didn't know where Adam was? You are a smart one aren't you? (Don't take that literally)

[@Hannah11235]

What I find most insulting is the idea that biblical inspiration was adapted to the "common understanding of the people of the time", as though modern cosmology is difficult to understand (it isn't, we can reduce it to a few pictures that school kids understand); or that God couldn't be bothered to correct their erroneous understanding of His creation, despite the fact that the Bible is dedicated to giving God glory FOR the creation. What is most egregious about this is that our so-called "modern" cosmology WAS present at the time of the biblical authors - in India. The ancient Hindu sages already had this idea of cycles of billions and billions of years, of a gradually evolving creation, of God as an impersonal force rather than a person, of innumerable other worlds, etc. So if the ancient Hindus could figure it out, why couldn't God have inspired the biblical authors to say, "Hey, these guys have it right"? Seriously, it's not hard to write "God made the world slowly over vast eons of time, and there are innumerable other worlds containing innumerable other souls." That's not a difficult concept to grasp or a difficult thing to write. If the Hindus managed it, why not the Israelites? I believe the ancient Hindu / modern secular cosmology is of demonic inspiration; it manifests the devil's hatred of the created world, and is an attempt to make it seem insignificant and meaningless, robbing God of the glory of creation.

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

What I find most insulting is the lie that flat earth was a thing before about 1850 AD. The question before then was whether the center of the solar system (ie, the Universe) was the Earth (geocentrism) or the Sun (heliocentrism)?

[@jamesluke8439]

The Globe only came from the 1500 ad Jesuits and the bad guys lol came up with model to take people away from god very successful lie. The Bible clearly says flat coming from a none believer 4 years ago. Sad how guys like Mike winger try to cherry pick a few texts when there's over two hundred. The globe has none why?

[@velinix7915]

But the Bible written based on God’s word, so how would it be wrong regardless of the time it was written in?

[@LandonTristen]

The biblical texts most often cited in the claim that the Bible teaches a flat Earth are Job 38:5, 12-14, Isaiah 11:12, 40:22, and Revelation 7:1, 20:7. Of these passages, the most cited is Isaiah 40:22. The relevant part of Isaiah 40:22, referring to God, states, “He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers.” Whether the “circle of the earth” refers to a human on Earth or God looking down on Earth from above, in both cases the phrase would be consistent with a spherically shaped Earth. It is worth noting that only a sphere always looks like a circle when seen from above. The Isaiah 11:12 and Revelation 7:1, 20:7 verses all refer to the “four corners of the earth.” However, even today, astronomers, physicists, and educated people around the world recognize and use the “four corners of the earth” as phenomenalogical language referring to the most distant parts of Earth from the standpoint of an observer at a specific location on Earth. It is clear from an examination of the context for all three of these passages that the most distant parts of Earth is the intent implied by the use of the idiom, the four corners of the earth. As the Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament points out, the Hebrew word for “corners” used in Isaiah 11:12, kanap, in most of its appearances in the Old Testament is used figuratively. The passage in Job 38:5 referring to Earth states, “Who fixed its dimensions? Certainly you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it?” The inference made by those claiming that the Bible is a flat-earth book is that the “measuring line” is a straight line which would be suitable for measuring a flat disk but not a sphere. This is an overinterpretation. Lines can be straight or curved. Also, it is customary to measure the diameter of a sphere with a straightedge ruler. Job 38:12-14 refers to the dawn seizing “the edges [or ends] of the earth” and Earth taking “shape like clay under a seal.” What is interesting here is that for a spherical Earth the arrival of dawn first shows up at the most distant horizon, end, or edge of the point of view of a human at a fixed point upon Earth’s surface. The taking shape like clay under a seal would apply to either a disk or a sphere and may be saying more about Earth’s rotation or its manufacture than its actual shape. The irony of choosing Job 38:5, 12-14, Isaiah 11:12, 40:22, and Revelation 7:1, 20:7 to sustain the claim that the Bible is a flat-earth book is that these biblical texts better fit a spherical Earth than they do a flat Earth. While it would be an overinterpretation to conclude that these texts explicitly teach that Earth is a sphere, nowhere in the Bible do we find any text saying that Earth is flat. The Bible remains the only holy book for which we can say that it contains no provable errors or contradictions.

[@penelopepittstop6252]

I believe God wanted us to know the earth is flat and stationary which is why it is always described as such IMO throughout the Word. The globe idol has been shoved in our faces since birth. Just like Mike pointed out the earth is described as the "dry land". That is what earth is. The Bible does not refer to the earth as a "planet". All the other "planets" have names of god's and goddesses? Why? Who did that? The video is strictly talking about proving the earth is flat by the Bible and I see how so many verses are poetic, analogy and metaphors but even when God is speaking in parables or poetry, whatever He is speaking is true or actually like what He is speaking of. He's not going to say something is like this or that if it is total opposite. Throughout the Word He speaks of the "face of the earth". I believe the earth is like a timepiece because He tells us the moon and sun are for telling time and seasons and such. I believe Him when He tells us He made the sun and moon for lights and the stars. I believe the "planets" are the wandering stars because if you look at them through a telescope or camera they don't look like the CGI fed to us by NASA and other "space" agencies. If you lived through 2020 you should be able to see how the whole world can be fooled and how all the governments can be "in on it". If you can't see it by now then I don't think you want to. Love in JESUS. He is the way the truth and the life! The truth always sets us free.

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

@@penelopepittstop6252 Well, should we call you flat face? You said: "The video is strictly talking about proving the earth is flat by the Bible"; why do you lie? Why do you persist in believing the lies of flat earthers?

[@soloridertv]

I always took "corners" to mean directions. In Revelations, it says "four winds" in the same "corners" verse. We usually think of the four winds as coming from the compass directions.

[@kelizabethg1]

Four corners of the earth = N•E•S•W Directional

[@kofibonsu8466]

flat earthers disliked that

[@paulk9188]

That’s not a corner though..you do realize..?

[@kofibonsu8466]

@@paulk9188 that’s the point, it’s not supposed to be a corner

[@paulk9188]

@@kofibonsu8466 yea, they are called cardinal directions..google is your friend

[@kofibonsu8466]

@@paulk9188 we know they are not literal corners

[@Perktube1]

If the earth were flat, cats would have knocked everything off of it by now. Thus meoweth Pox, warmer of soft chairs. - original Kitty Pox Version.

[@rose2525bud]

😹😹😹😹👍🏼

[@kigollaher5196]

If it was a ball my dogs would have chewed it flat by now.

[@jaziybabe]

Her name is Moxie just so you know

[@livefromtexas9371]

So true!🦊

[@dazdavis7896]

@@kigollaher5196 so what you’re saying is you ACTUALLY think the earth is flat….

[@conniedeneve1702]

The bible says circle not round..

[@moogle_k]

Correct. Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the circle[H2329] of the earth" There are two words in hebrew for a circle, and one of them means a spherical ball. Here's the two words according to the strongs' concordance. H1754 Dure: a circle or ball. H2329 khoog: a circle, circuit, compass Isaiah 40:22 uses form H2329 khoog, which means a circle, circuit, compass. The fact is that the ancient Hebrews DID have a word, "Dure", to describe a spherical ball shape of the earth during the time the Bible was recorded, but that was NOT the word used to describe the earth. Khoog was the word used.

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

I believe Isaiah 40: 22 refers to the circular horizon.

[@lukejones5272]

4 years late. Thank you so much. Thoughtful, thorough, polite. I can confidently explain to others that the Bible does not teach a flat earth.

[@wardrobegirl67]

Don’t get hung up on the term flat earth, it’s true the Bible doesn’t mention flat earth but the Bible does say the earth does not move. The Sun, moon and stars were created after the earth and were placed in the firmament. The firmament is a solid structure holding back water. Yahuahs throne is above the firmament. The Sun and moon stopped in the sky for a day. The Sun moved backwards for Hezekiah. All the stars will fall to earth in the end times. The Bible says all these things, it is not out of context, it is clear and in context. Believe the Word or don’t believe, but don’t pretend it’s all allegory.

[@Matthew-307]

You should probably do more research, because it certainly does teach a fl@t earth, covered by a dome, with heaven above and hell below.

[@lukejones5272]

@@Matthew-307 So which of the points in the video are you arguing against? They appeared pretty sound to me. I am happy to hear your side, though.

[@wardrobegirl67]

Mike leaves out most of the verses that show the earth is motionless and fixed on pillars with a solid firmament above. The Bible doesn’t say the earth is flat but it does say it doesn’t move, it says the sun moon and stars are in the firmament. It says the firmament is solid and holds back water. It says the sun moon and stars move in a circuit over the still earth. Earth may be flat on top and round underneath us, who knows?? But the Bible clearly says the earth is the center of creation, and this is it, no space, no other planets.

[@lukejones5272]

@@wardrobegirl67 "Mike leaves out most of the verses" Which ones? "but it does say it doesn’t move" where? "It says the firmament is solid and holds back water" No, it does not "It says the sun moon and stars move in a circuit over the still earth" Yes, from our perspective. This also means that the sun really sets below the horizon, which most FE models deny. "the earth is the center of creation" Yes, from our perspective. "and this is it, no space, no other planets." This is false. The bible does not say that. Thanks for sharing!

[@sherrylhenning5630]

4 corners = directions. North, South, East, West. Its figurative.

[@sunbear2644]

Woketown did a video saying it could be like if you divide a pie into 4 pieces you get 4 corners in the middle. That would also explain how " I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth". But yeah, could also be figurative for directions.

[@wydopnthrtl]

If there are 4 physical corners and they are outside the raqia (strongs 7549) then we will never really know. In a case like this... Matt 18:3 and Rom 3:4 is good enough for me.

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

There used to be common phrases like boxing the compass.

[@cryptojihadi265]

THAT'S his point. But Flerfs DEMAND we take EVERYTHING in the Bible literally or we are accusing God of being a liar. Of course, they seem strangely silent when Jesus DEMANDS we drink His blood and eat His flesh or we are going straight to hell.

[@wardrobegirl67]

The 4 corners verses are not the issue. The Bible clearly teaches the earth does not move and is covered by a firmament, the sun moon and stars are in the firmament.

[@nothingnewunderthesun8042]

If someone hasn’t tested the curvature how can they speak with certainty? I found fault in the Biblical rotation from the beginning of your commentary. The sun and moon don’t just rotate, they come close and push away from the North Pole which is what causes our seasons. It’s also not 93 million miles away or 1. It would illuminate all of space 2. would not display crepuscular rays (which means you can easily triangulate them) 3. Would not appear as a localized light source upon the water/earth. 4. Why are the sun and moon visible in the sky at the same time? Because their speeds are not the same so eventually the sun will pass the moon. 5. How can we travel through space spinning at 1,040mph, while spinning around the sun at 66,600mph, while everything else is also spinning.... and yet the stars align every-night. I know, I’ve watched for a year. I have many more thoughts that you and I can discuss. However, a flat, non-rotating earth makes sense if you read Joshua 10:13 from a literal sense. BTW how many hours does it take to fly east to west or west to east? The same hours and minutes both ways. Why can’t a helicopter liftoff and hover while waiting for its designated landing spot to arrive? Just some other “crazy” thoughts I’ve had. Where do you get the information from? NASA? The same one that had a Nazi SS guard as the head of the rocket dept.? The same agency full of Freemasons? Why have Obama and many others said we can’t leave low earth orbit? Why did astronaut Petite say we destroyed the technology that took us to the moon? How many times has Buzz Aldrin said he never went to the moon? People should think critically because deception is easy when the devil is at play. Ask yourself why is the ouroboros circling the NASA logo? Do you know what that signifies? What about the snake tongue that’s in the foreground? Operation Paperclip explains quite a bit. No conspiracy. Anyone can test the curve theory for themselves. Large body of water, preferably a lake, a high powered camera or a laser pointer are all that’s needed. I believe in God and I know the Bible has no fallacies so when a pastor says things they can’t confirm it should be addressed. Someone can not ridicule something they have not tested, if they do it would be foolish. And if this was tested prior to making this video the video would not be here. If someone has not physically tested the curvature then everything stated would be an opinion. I would be more than happy to show you the truth if you’re ever in south FL. God bless. Lastly, Mark 13:24 says the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light. So does the moon give its own light or is it a reflection as “science” claims. It gives off its own glow. Nikon P900 full spectrum is great to prove/disprove many issues you’ve discussed.

[@djtbone001a]

We live on a clock.

[@cryptojihadi265]

Just another FLERF demonstrating they know NOTHING about life, reality especially things like physics, how light works or ANY concept of spatial orientation. The fact you think the moon and the sun are close, is what blows up your already absurd model that literally doesn't demonstrate ONE thing we can observe in reality with our own eyes. Light can't light up a vacuum. So, there is nothing in space to BE lit up. What was see in daytime on earth is the light reflecting off the molecules in our atmosphere. If we had no atmosphere, the surface would be lit up, but the sky would be black. You're crepuscular rays are easily debunked when you fly up to the clouds and see the lines are parallel, but just like rails on the train tracks, they appear to converge to a point, but obviously they don't. the sun, moon, stars all ARC across the sky, they don't circle overhead. And the angle of the arc is determined by what line of latitude you are at. ONLY at the north pole do the stars and planet circle overhead. On a flat disc, it would be daytime 100% of the time. Only on a globe can you get nighttime. And the idea that the sun is a spotlight is not only absurd, you can see with a Hydrogen alpha telescope it is a sphere that also rotates, But even if you wanted to make it super close so that it only DIRECLTY lights up a portion of the earth, you would still see it at night, just like we can see the stars at night, just like you can see a streetlight from far off, even though you aren't under its directed light beam.

[@mrcubsfan97]

Crepuscular rays, the tower of Babel, double rainbows reflecting off the firmament. Real Christians are too afraid to humble themselves to the point they can see the lie. It's the devil's revenge against God confusing the language. Satan has done the same thing to us.

[@kevindunne8854]

Mike said the earth in the bible means dry land. So do flat earthers believe "to the ends of the earth" mean just that to the ends of dry land not to the ice wall? Curious

[@catpocalypsenow8090]

Not all FEers believe the same thing. Some know how to read the Bible in context, others don't.

[@Tom-yo7zf]

There are separate terms in the original languages. One is like shores,coasts or borders, the other is like wing tips, extremities. The difference in usage is clearer in the original languages and from the context of the individual verses.

[@flatpat1797]

Heaven is my throne means he’s sitting on it . And earth is his footstool means he could prop up if he wanted to . Who are you to say . Who am I to say

[@afordiam]

I was expecting to find some strong refutations because many of your other teachings are sound, but this was not convincing. None of your "irrefutable evidence" here is actually irrefutable.

[@choosejesus1910]

Mike didn't talk about the verses that say the Earth doesn't move

[@monamuller8969]

I mean he explained why he didn´t.

[@choosejesus1910]

@Innocent Bystander How so?

[@micah4460]

Was Jesus an actual lamb too since he's called the lamb of God?

[@arronprestwich2813]

If it's literal and not poetic/out of context or whatever else have you, then it could easily mean that it won't go off course of its orbit, or be wiped out. One needn't worry about those doomsday reports because "the earth shall not be moved." Earth will go on until the end described in scripture

[@choosejesus1910]

@@arronprestwich2813 My post was a year ago. I was an 80% flat earther now I'm a 50% flat earther.

[@donaugustine9748]

So what do the FEs do when they get to the ends of the earth? Just turn around? Go left or right? Just curious as to what their answer is.

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

A typical cultist flat earther will tell you that the militaries of the world guard the ice wall, and you will be shot if you try to breach their line. I would like to know how all the thousands of people required to patrol a 75,000 mile perimeter 24x7 get paid. lol

[@moogle_k]

​@@libertyresearch-iu4fynot surprised to see you pull this out of you flow shart of troll takes 😂

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

@@moogle_k Are you going to deny it, grasshopper. Of course, you won't because it is true, and you know it. When can I expect my answers?

[@moogle_k]

​@@libertyresearch-iu4fyWhat is there to deny. This is the first correct thing you have stated. "It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers." I completely agree with you that I look like a grasshopper to God.

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

@@moogle_k You are the most arrogant of imbeciles.

[@angiemorgan8173]

I do not (so very very 100% strongly) believe in flat earth theory- and I'm just binging older Mike Winger videos- but I LOVE that I still learned so much! About the signet rings, the seals, the greek word regarding earth/land, etc. I also appreciate his kindness and the respect in which he discusses the topic.

[@theubercaste]

It’s not a theory.

[@craigsilver2146]

Your spinning water ball theory of earth is a lie in your deceived mind. Ask God to show you the truth 😊

[@craigsilver2146]

Many seals of Joseph have been found, all flat !

[@screwball1010]

Thank you Mike. We won't be able to show people the errors of bad thinking unless we take their thinking as seriously as they do

[@Tigerex966]

Bad thinking, is when you believe there is only one way to think that is good, and that is your way of thinking.

[@screwball1010]

@@Tigerex966 Absolutely 100% true wisdom.

[@Tigerex966]

@@screwball1010 👍

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

Spinning ball is pretty bad thinking in my opinion. Blind trust in the elite of this world.

[@DiggitySlice]

​@@Tigerex966 there is one good way, God's way

[@MrBlakeleyden]

For the question about Michael Heiser beleiving in a flat earth, I watched a video of his where he had a diagram made to show what it might look like if we were to actually take each passage as literal as possible. But he was playing both sides. He didn’t say it was one way or the other. He was interpreting it from more than just one angle

[@cerickson5256]

Michael Heiser was adamantly against FE, but he was honest about what the ancient Hebrews believed, flat, enclosed, stable cosmology. Jason Lisle on the other hand is intellectually dishonest and plays fast and loose with the Bible, claiming it said all along we were on a globe.

[@clintbeacock7663]

He does state his view in his book, “The Bible Unfiltered”, where he laments the hyper-literal readings that lead some to believe it teaches a flat earth. He was vey much on the side of the modern view of the solar system. He did, however, believe that the predominant view in the ancient near east, including the Hebrews, assumed a flat earth with a dome, and that it came out in some of the poetic symbolism. But, like Mike Winger, he didn’t believe these passages were meant in any way to endorse that view of the world.

[@ne0nmancer]

@@clintbeacock7663 John Walton for example, always reminds us to look for historical context when reading these passages. The Bible message comes through even though we are witnessing it through the author/author's understanding of the world, i don't know why is it so hard for flat earthers to concede this.

[@bitrudder3792]

Nothing wrong with Michael Heizer showing the possible interpretations. The amplified Bible does it. Science needs to be more honest about the limitations and the fakery of their evidence for the globe. Just as we don’t have hard and fast answers About how to interpret everything in scripture, we don’t have hard and fast proof of either globe or flat from what I can see and I have looked at so many more facets than the average bear.

[@celestialsatheist1535]

The thing I like about religion is that people think that it is absolute and stays the same through out time. But in reality the interpretation of these religions changes in nearly every generation. Like Christians used to believe in a flat earth century, a Christian monk named Cosmas wrote a book, titled Topographia Christiana, describing the structure of the physical world. Basing his views on the Bible, Cosmas said the earth is flat and surrounded by four seas.[31] The prophecy at Revelation 1:7 was a basis for his conclusion. It states that when Christ returns, “every eye shall see him.” Cosmas reasoned that if the earth were round, people on the other side would not see Christ’s second coming.[32] Further support for the idea of a flat earth is contained in the verses mentioning the “four corners of the earth” (e.g., Isaiah 11:12; Revelation 7:1) and the “ends of the earth” (e.g., Jeremiah 16:19; Acts 13:47). Because of such Bible teachings, most of the early church fathers thought the earth is flat.

[@defketra2817]

Amen. That was a wonderful response to a dreadfully sobering situation. God bless you friend.

[@sirjames45]

Christians who believe in a flat Earth, have shown me that God is so merciful and loving that He even saves people who have not one ounce of common sense.

[@carlogeorge2349]

Wow...Quite a Statement.

[@josemontemayor4822]

all the ends of the earth is where earth land meets water. the end of earth is where the ocean begins. simple as that.

[@MrRono19]

People that are into conspiracies don't like simple answers. they like to over complicate everything

[@MrRono19]

@@justinhutchcroft4480 exactly. That's why they have to go try to find a more complicated solution

[@ZackWolfMusic]

Ends of earth is where the waters end.

[@bradislavgorlamski3040]

All people who actually think they fly on a ball through space and defend this worldview with all their heart are literally retarded.

[@dazdavis7896]

@@bradislavgorlamski3040 lmao, what a complete idiot.

[@ryankelly9032]

I think it's odd how we know exactly what the word day means in every biblical context except for the first chapter of Genesis.

[@wydopnthrtl]

This big bang -> balls flying through space -> evolution is a massively powerful delusion. I find it amazing that we Christians wouldn't be caught dead believing in big bang and evolution. Buuuuut give us MORE balls spinning and flying through outer space! More... More... More!!! The WORD said *days*.. and the WORD said *formless*.... mankind knows exactly what those mean. It's only the "educated mind" that knows better.

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

@@wydopnthrtl How many times do I have to say this? A GLOBE EARTH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A BIG BANG OR EVOLUTION. and you can't prove that it does, so stop saying it, troll.

[@wydopnthrtl]

@@libertyresearch-iu4fy I put them together because... that is the official narrative. No? Here in troll-ville where I went to school I was taught BB -> higgs bosen -> gravity -> molten ball -> surface cooled -> evolution -> people -> belief in a "god" to comfort themselves. Ok so.. you don't believe in BB or evolution. That's an excellent thing and I stand with you on those two. So... neither one of us was there in the beginning and we don't have (human) eye witness testimony. Why is it you believe you exist on a ball that is spinning, and spinning around a sun?

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

@@space-stig Right or wrong, zealots never give up.

[@Draezeth]

@@wydopnthrtl The whole POINT of this video is to PROVE that that isn't even what the Bible is saying. LISTEN to what Mike says. Those verses are NOT calling the Earth flat in the first place! You are biased and leading millions of young people astray by feeding them easily falsifiable lies! People will leave the faith because the cosmology you preach is forced onto them as essential, and when they find out it isn't true, they will conclude that none of the Bible is true!

[@skydawg2703]

I love that KZbin “added context” as if you were supporting the flat earth concept 🤣

[@garisanneanderson9375]

I understand how the verses mentioned to support flat earth dont support flat earth. But does the bible support sphere earth? Verses? Thank you

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

The Bible is not an astronomy or cosmology book. No there is nothing in the Bible that talks about the shape of the Earth.

[@adelynnhoffman]

The whole point of the video is to say that using the Bible to try to determine the shape of the earth is a fool's errand. God is not concerned with telling us what shape the earth is. He wants us to discover the world He's gifted us for ourselves so that we can be even more in awe of His creation. Regardless of the shape of the earth, surely we can all agree that He has created this earth with such an intricate beauty that no other being or natural process could have come up with it.

[@ig00g1e]

@@libertyresearch-iu4fy what is astronomy and cosmology as you understand it totally fake. Ever entertain that?

[@ig00g1e]

@@adelynnhoffman it's important because Satan is involved in this conversation and you seem to not be concerned with that. The message of Satan is to lie and distort.

[@Matthew-307]

You won’t find any scripture that supports the heliocentric globe earth model. It’s a satanic fantasy, however, you WILL find hundreds of verses that support the flat earth model.

[@barbarajean7035]

Hi Mike...any chance the conference will be live-streamed? It would be worth to pay to be able to be apart of it.

[@quailshootr6389]

Save your money.

[@musicinspire1745]

A flat earther in my office tried to say there are no direct flights between Australia and South Africa. I showed him the sites on the web where one can order and pay for tickets from Sydney to Cape Town on the southern tip of Africa. The flight times were consistent with the distance. He was flabbergasted, and then did the shuck and jive claim that those ticket sales are fake, that nobody ever boards such flights. He also said that nobody is allowed to walk onto the Antarctic because a global military force is there to keep people off that shelf so that they never discover where the canopy meets the ice on the outer edge. He also could never seem to explain how people down at the southern tip of Africa don't end up standing at about a 60 degree angle to the ground under their feet with the largest mass of the earth to their north. He had to claim that gravity is not something science understands, nor can explain...that it is not a property of mass, but rather a supernatural force God enacts according to His own will in the way it works right now. (rolling eyes to the heavens) The array of convenience excuses they apply to try and uphold the flat earth scenario in the face of gross inconsistencies and irrefutable evidences to the contrary, well, I prefer to give glory to the Lord who did in fact create countless numbers of galaxies and stars, haiving named each one. That speaks to a power beyond our ability to begin to try and comprehend. The magnitude of such power speaks well to what the Lord inspired to be written where it says that nature itself declares His majesty and Person.

[@michaelnatallia]

Did you know if an airliner stops for fuel and nobody gets on or off it is considered a non stop flight

[@musicinspire1745]

@@billiehanson3686 I can buy a ticket today, just as you can. All you have to do is use the same internet you're accessing right now for the airlines that sell such tickets.

[@musicinspire1745]

@@billiehanson3686 So, you won't even go and look with your internet access to see the navigation course for the tickets you can guy? That only shows that you're afraid of the truth.

[@ChipsAplentyBand]

There's a definite psychological conditioning effect at work here. In the case of the Christian/Bible-believing Flat Earthers, their thinking is controlled at the root by the belief that the Bible itself teaches a Flat Earth. Without Bible-savvy Christians around to address the '200 verses that teach a Flat Earth' for them, and with little or no exegetical/hermeneutical training in the Bible themselves, people cultishly fall prey to the claim that the Bible does teach a Flat Earth-when it really doesn't. Once that premise is set in their minds, then all the rest follows: 1. Any science that teaches otherwise-that the Earth is a rotating spheroid-must be wrong. Many Christian Flat Earthers have a Young Earth Creationist background, which also proceeds following the same path: I understand the Bible to say X, but science says Y, so all of the relevant science must be wrong (rather than: 'Oh, there's a discrepancy here so I'd better re-check both the science and my exegesis to see if a mistake has been made in either.'). And it's only a short step from opposing Darwinism out of loyalty to the Bible to opposing PHYSICAL SCIENCE as well because you think that too is opposed to the Bible-when it's actually not. The phrase "atheistic science" is one that the Young Earth creationists employ too. What this amounts to most fundamentally is this: Many Christians are prone to misreading the Bible and are not able to TELL that they or someone they look up to and has taught them has done so. They then defend their misreading vociferously (which jibes with "…have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge). 2. For so MUCH of science to be so wrong must mean that there's been a Grand Conspiracy to push the rotating spheroid model instead. 3. Such a Grand Conspiracy of science would require MANY PEOPLE and MUCH INFLUENCE to pull it off, so now we're into the area of conspiracy to control the world-with which, as a Bible student of End Times prophecy and of the New World Order, I have quite a lot of sympathy, actually-and so then you are mixing in bonafide conspiracy with a fake Grand Conspiracy of science and the bonafide conspiracy lends credence to the Flat Earth position, seemingly, because Christians in general who also know their Bibles and what the Bible says about the End Times can see the world going to pieces and moving toward the New World Order every day now in the propaganda media headlines, 'news' stories, and memes. As I see it, the mistake the Christian Flat Earthers make is in not investigating each claim of conspiracy separately on its own merits and evidence. Some conspiracies are fake, but others are genuine. The Bible even tells us Jesus was plotted against and executed due to conspiracy. The Flat Earthers seem to buy into conspiracies wholesale, as a package deal, rather too easily. And it doesn't help that fellow Christians don't always see the deterioration of the world situation, probably leading up to the End Times fairly soon, very clearly. 4. This Grand Conspiracy of science then needs a locus of villainy, like KAOS with Maxwell Smart, which in their case has turned out to be NASA. 5. Once Flat Earth is thought to be biblical, and all relevant science claiming a rotating spheroid Earth contradicts it, then of course every space photo by NASA (or by any other nation's space agency) HAS to be a CGI fake if the Bible is true. 6. In fact, at that point even any firsthand evidence from other source ALSO has to be fake, and so ANY photograph of the horizon that shows curvature at any altitude ALWAYS has to be due to either a 'fisheye' lens effect or to photographic tampering of some kind. FE claims against such photographic evidence are comprehensive, but their equally comprehensive LACK of photographic evidence of, say, the ice wall (because it is alleged no one is ever allowed to travel to Antarctica to check for one there) or of the solid dome firmament is systematically ignored by them. 7. For various reasons, including the obvious observation through one's own backyard telescope that other planets are BOTH spheroidal in shape AND rotating bodies, then all photographs taken by backyard telescopes of other planets also ALL have to be fakes. And once they're fakes, then there's no hydrostatic equilibrium creating such planets due to gravity, and then there's no 'need' for gravity at all either. And on and on and on it all goes. But it begins with a laudable sense of loyalty to God and to His Word, that's unfortunately misapplied because they are MISREADING and MISINTERPRETING that Word-wholesale-on this particular issue.

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

Liar, I've looked many times on Expedia. South Africa always needs a stop in the northern Hemisphere on its way to Perth Australia. Hong Kong usually.

[@billsmith2815]

Great Scriptures to consider, Mike. Thank you. There are way too many problems that need addressed from a flat earth belief. Here are a couple requests. 1. Please explain how we get fruit from the southern hemisphere in the winter months of the north and the winter weather in the south of the equator is winter in June. 2. Please explain ice on both polls and a time or the year of almost 23 hours of daylight our night.

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

Actually, both arctic circles have months of continuous sunlight at exact opposite times of year.

[@FrankGrauStudio]

The thing about the Job verse, it’s God describing His creation, and clearly God isn’t going to lie, nor will He teach false beliefs from surrounding pagan cultures when He goes to great pains to instruct the Israelites to be holy and separate themselves from the beliefs and practices of surrounding pagan cultures.

[@laurad3117]

Proverbs‬ ‭8:27-29‬ ‭ “When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep, when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth,”

[@cryptojihadi265]

What about it?

[@Matthew-307]

Amen sis. The scripture is clear as day.

[@Matthew-307]

@@cryptojihadi265Either it’s true or it’s false, and God’s word is always true. Let God be true and every man a liar.

[@hithere77795]

Rob skiba has some of if not the best biblical flat earth information and is completely in context, the bible support flat earth 100%. Go check out his flat earth debate. Really good one.

[@Egghead012]

You missed the point of this video

[@jacobgonzales4796]

Seems the argument that the ends of the earth equals land and water is a mistake. The word “earth” in Hebrew means land not the whole globe including the ocean, flat or not. Ends of the earth simply means all the lands not all the waters too. Thus those verse about nations coming from the ends of the earth make sense no matter what shape the earth is. Heaven and earth means kind of like A to Z of creation.

[@trudykay2005]

HOLY SPIRIT filled indeed.. HE always reveals the TRUTH through the understanding of HIS WORD. Well done explanation my brother. I believe our LIVING GOD is a GOD of order NOT disorder, why would HE create all other planets in a sphere design yet create the earth as a disk for HIS people to inhabit? If the flat is earth society would stop worshipping creation and start worshipping the CREATOR they too would have a clear understanding of TRUTH. The deception is sure increasing in these last days. What gets me is this person Karen B a spokesperson for a flat earth society podcast who claims that she's a Christian yet she freely F bombs her listeners. So sad how they get so angry when you present them with TRUTH, may our LORD open their eyes...and May our LORD continue to use you my brother and continue to increase you with great wisdom in JESUS OF NAZARETH OUR LORD OUR LIVING GOD'S MIGHTY AND POWERFUL NAME. ✝️❣️

[@Matthew-307]

Wow, very ironic.

[@ocrlr]

The earth is on a foundation and cannot be moved

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

49:55 Foundations of the Earth Micah 6: 2; Isaiah 51: 16; Job 28: 4-10

[@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538]

And yet further reading shows that Earth can be “shaken from its place.” So which is it? Literal Bible is a contradiction. Allegorical Bible is more accurate. Bible is not a science book and earth is not flat.

[@justaguylearningmusic4507]

@@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538 that's what people need to understand. The bible is a tricky book with a portion of it being poetry I heard and a lot of the bible is in metaphors. Not everything in the bible should be taken literally

[@ChipsAplentyBand]

Since most people can't read biblical Hebrew and Greek there are translation issues involved fairly often too, as well as reading comprehension problems, that are not the fault of the Bible author's text. These issues complicate the task of trying to understand what the Bible author is intending to communicate. For example, the Hebrew word 'eretz' which is typically translated as "earth" (not capitalized) typically means 'land' or 'territory' or 'country' and/or the people thereof; all the land and/or people everywhere; or 'soil' or 'dirt' or 'ground,' but it DOESN'T mean 'planet' as does the different English usage "Earth" (capitalized, because it's the proper name used to designate our planet). So "earth" ≠ "Earth," but when readers of the English Old Testament see "earth" they sometimes mentally interpolate the meaning "Earth" instead, creating a planetary (shape, disposition in space) conception that the Bible author never intended. In ancient times a planet was routinely called a "wandering star" because it was always something you saw up in the sky; it was not the ground beneath your feet. In ancient times PLANETS were seen 'up there' but "earth" was the ground 'down there' beneath your feet. However, in modern times, people think of "Earth" in its planetary conception instead, and their mental picture of what the writer is talking about shifts from ground level to at least Earth-orbital distance, and to a conception of our planet in space as one planet among the others in the Solar System. It's that change in people's mental frame of reference which leads them to misunderstand what the Bible writers are talking about when they use the word 'eretz.' Once that problem has been addressed, then we're facing a slightly different problem: How can the LAND not be moved? Indeed, the Bible itself records several earthquake events and Jesus predicts earthquakes during the End Times as well. Farmers in biblical times plowed up the dirt and so in that sense the "earth" also clearly moves. Here are two possible reconciliations of this problem of the Bible seeming to contradict itself with respect to the land moving vs. not moving: 1. The physical LAND ("earth) is SUBSTANTIALLY immovable most of the time, and provides a reliably solid foundation for buildings, etc. However, earthquakes are an exception which the Bible also acknowledges. This is, in fact, the way I understand what is being said in 1 Chron. 16:30; in that passage, King David is apparently urging thousands of his countrymen to- Dance [i.e., frenetically] before Him, all the land; Indeed, the world is firmly established, it will not be moved. -in a tongue-in-cheek way. I take the sense of his remark to be along these lines: 'Go ahead, everyone! Dance before God together! It will be safe to do so because the world is firmly established and you won't initiate an earthquake if you do!' 2. At least some of the 'immovable land' passages may not be talking about PHYSICAL immobility but about the political/demographic immobility of a COUNTRY (e.g., the LAND or COUNTRY of ISRAEL will not be 'moved' from its place because God has established the Jewish people in it).

[@ocrlr]

@@ChipsAplentyBand thank you for the lesson but you missed the point! God it stable, its STABLE!. Now re- read Genesis 1, slowly; water above and water below. Psalm 104:5: "Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken." 1 Chronicles 16:30: Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

[@loveycat5474]

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. It is a heavy book, so your must be Strong to carry it. And after you carry it from point A to point B you are Exhausted.🤣🤣📖📖

[@lyssalouise2705]

Haha “strong” to carry it

[@FirefighterAliveJC]

Some people are strongly deluded from it. Looking at their microwave and license plates to confirm a rapture date. It’s ludicrous

[@mtjc5336]

Lol

[@FierceMouse]

@@FirefighterAliveJC - Isn't it also divination?

[@karenduncan6004]

@@FirefighterAliveJC It is such a valuable resource---so sad that it is misused.

[@mejias4682]

GENSIS 1;6 Then God said, “Let there be [e]an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 God made the [f]expanse, and separated the waters which were below the [g]expanse from the waters which were above the [h]expanse; and it was so. 8 God called the [i]expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. 16 God made the two [w]great lights, the greater [x]light [y]to govern the day, and the lesser [z]light [aa]to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the [ab]expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and [ac]to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

[@rachelrushjones9749]

Q: How do you get “ends of the earth” from somewhere that is actually close to home? Barely even a continent away? Thanks

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

3:28

[@rayburton5300]

The phases of the moon(or thr shadow of earth upon it)undeniablydemonstrates the shape of the earth also. I haven't heard this point addressed lately.

[@hoopsonfire17]

except...when you can see the moon and the sun in the sky at the same time right? How is the earth casting a shadow on the moon when the sun and moon are both visible in our sky many times throughout the year? I'm not a full fledged 'flat earther' but I do believe there are 'facts' we've inherited from that need to be questioned more thoroughly. There are other points that would refute a globe-model earth as well (lasers visible from many miles away that should be hidden behind the curve of the earth, why don't lakes experience the same tidal patterns as oceans, and many more).

[@AddisonJamesHoward]

The phases of the moon aren't caused by the earth's shadow. Only during a lunar eclipse is it claimed that the earth's shadow is on the moon.

[@cryptojihadi265]

@@hoopsonfire17 No there isn't. He's mistaken. The phases of the moon are caused by it's location in it's orbit of earth and the side of the moon that isn't facing the sun. It's EASY" to see clearly on a drawing. the phases of the moon absolutely blow away the FE model. According to your model, the phases would change throughout the day and night and depending on where you are on the earth, you would see the moon in a completely different phase from someone else in a different location. Also the only way you could have a full moon is when the moon is opposite the sun and on the other side of the disc which would only occur in daytime, when the sun is on our side of the earth and the moon on the dark side of the disc. I know what you're thinking, well what about when the moon is overhead, and the sun is on the far side of the disc. Well, then those in the northern part, or center of the disc, would only see a gibbous moon, while those more underneath the moon would see a half-moon, and those towards the outside of the disk would see a crescent moon. This is all because you want the sun and moon to be close to the earth, within the dome. Just another example of trying to solve one problem with your model, only to create several more.

[@SimpleAmadeus]

The question "if the bible said the earth was flat, would you believe it?" is a nasty one, because it supposes that the bible would be different, but God's creation would be the same. You could apply this strategy with any lie. For example: "If the bible said Satan is the messiah, would you believe it?". The bible, as God has given it to us, is the truth. You cannot editorialize it with your own (probably false!) ideas and still use its authority as the word of God. It is a subtle form of blasphemy.

[@charlesturle7984]

Yes,that one really stood out to me also.

[@suzum.9713]

I've often thought of that kind of stuff. It's easy to believe in a righteous God Who loves us, but, what if He demanded I do something repulsive? It takes some deep thought to get around that concept.

[@nevin8604]

@@suzum.9713 Repulsive like what?

[@suzum.9713]

@A Lucky Man! Right. I happen to agree, but try explaining that to someone who doesn't get it. They will certainly think that we live in a fantasy land.

[@MisterGeof]

If it said that then it would not be true... the reason the bible is taken as what it is, is because we can test it. We can literally test these natural claims. We don't believe the bible is true because the bible says it's true...

[@ChristopherCollinsworth]

finally i found a Pastor that goes into this. I have been looking for it for a long time.

[@friedrichrubinstein2346]

The video is 4 years old, my friend. Where've you been looking? :D

[@ChristopherCollinsworth]

@@friedrichrubinstein2346 i know. I have searched for this many times and never got anything till this video.

[@btnuckolls]

It is interesting that in the news this month, they discovered an underground ocean that is pumping mass amounts of fresh water into the ocean isn't it?

[@vegass]

"all you have to do is keep reading" -good line rang true to me

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

You're only going to find that spinning earth verse if you keep reading all the way into the book of Mormon.

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr I am still looking for a cogent discussion of this video. Kind of pathetic for your side, skippy.

[@wardrobegirl67]

Yes, read the whole Bible, the earth is motionless, set on pillars and under a firmament.

[@Yahushathemessiah]

Funny how when the scripture says things that people refuse to wrap there head around and say it means something else but when it easy on your mind they will say it means exactly what it says . Quit manipulating scripture because you don’t want to accept it .

[@JOSEPH_VEGA]

Thank you Pastor Winger for your ministry.

[@mikepuleo9375]

Doesn't the fact the seasons are reversed north and south of the equator refute a flat earth as well?

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

This is a great point.

[@RTTRn]

When you look at the FE model the seasons make perfect sense.

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

@@RTTRn If you believe the sun moves in an imperfect way.

[@RTTRn]

@@libertyresearch-iu4fy well i dont

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

@@RTTRn Well, how do account for the simultaneous longer days on the inner pancake and shorter days on the outer pancake, and vice versa. Or how do you account for the simultaneous solar analemma at different angles around the pancake, or how do you account for the sun circling the pancake at all [Hint: I need more than "God made it that way".] at a measly 3000 mile elevation?

[@wydopnthrtl]

Mr Winger, I'm a Christian and a mechanical engineer. (30yrs). I have extensive optical experience, work with light ray tracing and cameras all the time. 3D geometry is my wheelhouse.. so to speak. Until 2 yrs ago I believed like you do. Then I started to notice the physicality of observable flat areas simply doesn't match what we've all been taught. Variances in distances that are observable are not even close to it either (things disappearing bottom up). Something is fundamentally wrong here and I thought maybe it was my understanding. Tripple checked myself... nope I understood it properly. Hum.... Prior to understanding "flat earth", I've personally stood on Bonneville salt flats and looked for curve. I had no clue about FE at the time and was baffled why I could see things that were mathematically impossible. Same goes for two of the great lakes in north america. There's clearly no observable spherocity as we've been told *and believed* our whole lives. I then heard someone say.... its all right there in the Bible. OK so now I'm researching heavily!! I've got about 1,500 hrs in this and stand ready to show any Christian that reality matches the account shown throughout scriptures. Long story short.. We live on a planer surface, earth is the dry ground (which you correctly noted but then misused to mean a ball?), and there is a hard raqia above us. I like to break down the evidence in three ways: 1. Genesis ch1-ch2:1 we are told what was made and in the order He made it. And that they "were completed". 2. Hard science matches the description of Genesis 1 and Job 38 and all the rest of scriptures. 3. The sphere planet theory (heliocentrism) comes from people who's official title say "theoretical" in it. Most of them are haters of God and think Christians are "iron age peasants" and "there is only one God left to bury" (fact check this by looking up Lawrence Krauss). They DON'T USE the scientific method (most people don't know this). So the "Word" said it, science matches it, and God haters use cartoons / models as their proof. (Rom 3:4) I'd like to gently point out several things. 1. Your belief: in ball earth is very similar to a child who believes in santa. Just as the child could point at "proofs" that santa exists.. he has a very strong belief that won't be easily shaken as long as his whole environment supports the falsehood. You as a ball planet believer can point at what you feel are sufficient proofs too. It's only when we start to question things and "prove all things" that we look for hard evidence. Just as the child will never be able to witness santa , we cannot witness our existence on a ball planet floating in space, movement of it, or sphereocity. (air pressure w/o a container speaks to the raqia) At the 46:25-35 area you say -> "Your not really doing Bible study. Your pushing your teachings on the text of scripture" I find that statement incredibly ironic. That's is exactly what your doing! You have the presupposition of ball earth and look for confirmation bias in the texts. Go back and listen to this vid... you clearly have a ball shaped agenda and are NOT looking for what the texts say. Please consider this analogy ... you put on a pair of glasses with tape over the lens. Now it doesn't matter how much scripture you attempt to see, how long you look, or how sincere you are in the effort. You-will-never-see what the scriptures say because your blinded by a deception. What if our Father in Heaver meant exactly what He said? "formless and void"....... brother, there is only one shape that has no form. Only one. And its right there in the 2nd verse of Genesis. 2. You state that your using FE'ers core texts. Wrong! Genesis Ch1 through ch2:1 are our core texts. You've not done your homework in this subject. 3. Your biggest struggle is not the scriptures, nor is it hard science, its in taking off the belief of helocentrism. Just like the santa analogy, it's an indoctrination for which you have zero hard evidence. Only a society supported belief. Should you choose.... please do this. Read Genesis Ch1:1-19 as if you had a blank mind. Then using that text as your foundational principal / truth.. go observe the physical world and read all other scriptures with it as your basis.

[@SamC_182]

God bless you, I really Hope Mike Takes the time to read this comment. I would thumbs it up a million times if I could

[@holodeck71]

AMEN! Best comment on this entire video!

[@BigPixelBiz]

I began seriously researching Biblical cosmology April 2019. I’m from the UK and 67 years old. It all began with a desire to walk closer with God. Sometime later a Bible teacher began sharing with me Biblical cosmology according to Genesis. Since then the Holy Spirit has stripped away the years of indoctrination and lies and in return has given revelation after revelation regarding Biblical creation. My senses are now in tune with each new revelation from Him. God’s Word has come alive for me. It has been an exciting journey, bringing with it an incredible sense of closeness to God. I just cannot stop researching and studying His word. I’m truly amazed at how blind and deceived I was! I began researching in earnest the demonic origins of heliocentric cosmology and I must thank Will from “The truth is stranger than fiction “KZbin site for his dedicated research. This is a worldwide awakening inspired by the Holy Spirit, leading multitudes to Christ the Saviour On Sunday the 5th of May 2019 a total stranger sat next to me in church. Her name was Jackie, a pastor’s wife, who had travelled 300 miles to visit her mother for the weekend. Nearing the end of the service we were encouraged to get into small groups to pray. After we had prayed together, Jackie turned to me and said “I have a word from the Lord for you". “FOR SUCH A TIME AS THIS" ……then she was gone. In that moment I knew it was encouragement from God I believe this is for all who have been awoken ….” FOR SUCH A TIME AS THIS” It is an encouragement to all you Biblical earth believers from the Lord. Once He opens your eyes, there is no turning back!!

[@tonyvandyke7588]

wydopnthrtl , sadly, Mike won’t take you seriously. Jess made up his mind just like all the other indoctrinated people. No amount of truth, facts or proofs will sway them. The puff themselves up with knowledge and so can’t be taught. They see themselves as teachers but have no wisdom. They’ve married themselves to a world that hates God and feeds them lies masked as science and then the deceived take those lies and say, well we think it proves there is a God. lol it’s not their proof to label and the world is laughing because they got the “Christians” to agree which pulls them every so gently, closer to a total abandonment of the truth. To them, all of scripture will one day be figurative allegory.

[@wydopnthrtl]

@@tonyvandyke7588 Well... if I can at least plant a seed of truth in this post, maybe it'll land in somebody's good soil. If its via Biblical cosmology then great.

[@OGKenG]

This issue with Dean Odle teaching a flat earth from a biblical perspective... "Pastor" Dean Odle received his ordination from a Nigerian seminary, however, the Nigerian government has shut down this seminary as an illegal diploma mill. I question his qualifications as a pastor and, just like these shady doctors who get their doctorates from Caribbean medical schools, I wouldn't trust either one.

[@robertcampbell6349]

Did his Nigerian Seminary education include a gold or diamond inevitable mine?

[@dylangoldman2310]

Needing a diploma to preach the Gospel is the silliest modern day practice we follow. No man can give you the authority, God only.

[@OGKenG]

@@dylangoldman2310 Do you want random people teaching false doctrine without some form of training on how to interpret it exegete Scripture? Most people want sound doctrine, not Jim Jones.

[@dylangoldman2310]

@@OGKenG plenty of ordained ministers teach false doctrine. There are many interpretations of scripture. I guarantee I don't agree on everything theological as you do. It's up to people to use their brains. A school or institution are not the authority on the correct interpretations of scripture. This is literally why Jesus chose unschooled men to be his apostles. Because the institutions are power hungry and wack as hell.

[@mysonrando7789]

I took face of the deep to mean, face of the sea, or of the ocean, that anyone on a large body of water can see that there is a circle or a roundness.

[@skilz8098]

Another thing that people need to take into consideration is this... The Ancient Hebrew language from when the Book of Job was original written older than the Book of Moses, including the books of Moses was lost to the Israelites when they were taken captive by either the Assyrians or Babylonians. A couple of hundred years before Christ and even during the time of Christ when Rome ruled the region, many of the remaining Israelites (Jews) didn't even speak or write in Hebrew. Most of them spoke and wrote in either Aramaic and or Greek as they were the commonly known and used languages of the time. Even Jesus spoke in both Aramaic and Greek. Now, there were a very few among the Jews who ended up relearning their lost native tongue... and these were considered the scribes, rabbis, prophets, etc...where only a few were privy to its knowledge. So when one begins to study the O.T. any of the books that were written from the Time of Solomon and before were written during the time that the Israelites still spoke and wrote in their native tongues. After the time of Solomon when the Kingdom was split in two, it was used up to the point that the Northern Kingdom was conquered. They were taken into captivity for a good 4 centuries and they lost their heritage. As for the Southern Kingdom Judah, it was captured by the Babylonians and then eventually by the Romans and throughout that era there was a huge influence of the usage of the Aramaic and Greek Languages. The Greeks never conquered Israel or Jerusalem yet the Greeks during their supremacy had a huge influence on cultural changes especially within the context of written and spoken languages... This is what happens when one group or nation of people conquers another... Their languages and customs end up becoming the de facto standard. Consider this... How much Hebrew or Israelite cultural information was lost when the Library of Alexandria was burnt to the ground?

[@laurad3117]

Job 26:10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

32:47

[@celestialsatheist1535]

The thing I like about religion is that people think that it is absolute and stays the same through out time. But in reality the interpretation of these religions changes in nearly every generation. Like Christians used to believe in a flat earth century, a Christian monk named Cosmas wrote a book, titled Topographia Christiana, describing the structure of the physical world. Basing his views on the Bible, Cosmas said the earth is flat and surrounded by four seas.[31] The prophecy at Revelation 1:7 was a basis for his conclusion. It states that when Christ returns, “every eye shall see him.” Cosmas reasoned that if the earth were round, people on the other side would not see Christ’s second coming.[32] Further support for the idea of a flat earth is contained in the verses mentioning the “four corners of the earth” (e.g., Isaiah 11:12; Revelation 7:1) and the “ends of the earth” (e.g., Jeremiah 16:19; Acts 13:47). Because of such Bible teachings, most of the early church fathers thought the earth is flat.

[@bikesrcool_1958]

@@celestialsatheist1535ut the Bible doesn’t teach the earth is flat, that’s a human mistake. Cosmas using the verse in revelation is such a bad take for his opinion

[@celestialsatheist1535]

@@bikesrcool_1958 job:38:13-14) 13 that it might take hold of the ends of the earth, and shake the wicked out of it? 14 It is changed as clay under the seal, and presented as a garment. And these verses are saying that the earth is like a piece of clay under a seal and the earth apparently had ends! Need a better description of a flat earth? .

[@bikesrcool_1958]

@@celestialsatheist1535 ….. this is what happens when you take verses hyper literally. Job is full of poetry, look at leviathan and behemoth. How God describes everything. Don’t try to find problems when there isn’t any to begin with, unless you try to interpret it that way.

[@inukithesavage828]

The ends of the earth literally just mean the coast. I mean, we have placed called 'Land's End,' on the coast.

[@BeccainHawaii]

To take the words "four corners" to mean the earth is flat, also should mean the earth is square. You can't have corners if the earth is a disc shape.

[@michaelevans1499]

That's why we have boxing rings. 😅😂

[@RB-sz9gv]

You have the circle of the Earth within a square and a dome above

[@BeccainHawaii]

@@RB-sz9gv so the earth is in a box

[@RB-sz9gv]

@@BeccainHawaii in biblical cosmology God‘s spirit moved upon the face of the deep, or the waters, and, according to Job, the face of the deep is frozen. The second heaven, or firmament, divides the water from the waters, so there is water below and water above, but as far as the make up of what we would call the universe, we do not know.

[@michaelevans1499]

@@RB-sz9gv 👍 , Isaiah 34:4 KJV - And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

[@skilz8098]

Excellent job on establishing proper contexts of the various usages and figures of speech. Your way of presenting this is enlightening, engaging, apropos.

[@normanharris1092]

I know this was a long time ago, but in would love to share this on the SciManDan channels. He is an atheist and uses those Christians who get it wrong to discount Christianity and it makes me mad. Would love to hear about the firmament

[@bikesrcool_1958]

It’s because he can’t find lots of wrong with Christian’s who get it right, so he just uses bad examples

[@devanvelo3725]

In Genesis, he made the earth then he made the sun and moon on the third day

[@un-plugged2974]

Correction, Sun moon and stars were on the 4th day. God made Ligjt the FIRST day, the Waters divided on the 2nd day, grass, herb yeilding seeds and the fruit tree yeilding fruit on the 3rd day. Sun, Moon and Stars weren't present till the 4th day! Sir Isaac Newtown wasn't the first to come up with the idea the earth is spherical. It was taught through the Kabbalah via the Zohar and the Talmud some 1,500 years prior to Isaac. But, it only goes deeper...Isaac Newton was heavy into the Kabbalah where he derived his concepts from. Proponent of the cabalist doctrine of the Jews known as the Zohar. A quick Google search of "Issac Newton Kabbalah" will lead you to the truth. This Spherical earth doctrine was taught amongst the Cabalist Jews of Mysticism and Dark Arts long before Issac Newton.

[@nortfroggirl]

He is a God of order!! If sun was the center The Lord Jesus would have made it first

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

So what?

[@stoplossboss6309]

Go test for curvature and try and prove the earth spins... then read your bible again and hit your knees pray and ask the Lord to to open your eyes and show you the truth.

[@Ascendcy]

Devan Velo very interesting

[@Antsaboy94]

I don't like _"What if the Bible said"_ questions. If a believer asks that, they should just make a biblical case on what they believe in. If an atheist asks that, it's propably because our faith is categorized as a religion whilst their lack of belief isn't. In reality, anyone who doesn't worship God worships a false god. _Everyone_ has a holy cow of sorts. Atheists simply don't formulate their beliefs in these terms. It is-by design-more difficult to pinpoint the foundation of their beliefs and turn the question right back at them. If they thought the Bible contradicted established science, they should just say so. We can talk about that.

[@ronterry1283]

Here for the Cat cam! Thanks for all you and your team do Mike!

[@rubenjanbroers6644]

Thank you Mike, could you explain why the word liq'so'wt is used in Job as 'end of' and in the other Books ap'se as 'end of'? I really appreciate you taking on this topic. God bless you

[@Hearth123]

So are we supposed to take "fishers of men" literally? Do we have to literally carry a cross everywhere to follow Jesus? Literally don't throw pearls to pigs? There is obvious poetry in the Bible to illustrate and to teach and this flat earth stuff is just nonsense

[@johntrevett2944]

No one takes the Bible literally or they would have plucked out both there eyes.

[@dextermorgan7441]

😅

[@lilyatangcho]

So should nothing in the Bible be taken literally? To not take some of scripture literal is almost like denying the supernatural. If the Bible states the sun stood still, which it does, I believe it literally means the sun stood still.

[@johntrevett2944]

@@lilyatangchoDo you still have your eyes?

[@Hearth123]

@@lilyatangcho creating the ridiculous binary of either everything in the Bible is absolutely literal or none of it is, is an absolutely untenable premise. Should I be going out into the street and throwing nets over people?

[@SimplicityOfLove]

Psalms 104:19 “He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down.”

[@slarzyer]

the ultimate question is what do you do next? ...and why?

[@yellowjacket588]

I understand that those that wrote the Bible can only tell you what they observed, only divine inspiration of God could say a shape of the Earth. This doesn’t make the Earth flat.

[@vincemarshall8550]

or a globe either

[@doug1863]

So if we are to take the corners of the earth literally, then when Jesus says he is living water, is he Dasani or Poland Spring? He says he is bread. Potato or whole wheat? Need to take things into context

[@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538]

Hey, if Jesus is the bread of life, is he gluten free? My wife has celiacs disease. So she’s allergic to the body of Christ.

[@MajorTomFisher]

Was Jesus' body unleavened though 😳

[@kmc0956]

😂

[@doug1863]

@@MajorTomFisher excellent point !!!

[@SicksGod]

@@sitrepproductionsatlanta8538 I can always count on seeing your name for a rebuttal. You have just as much faith in science as a Christian has in a Sky daddy.

[@sunkistcloud525]

Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

[@AndreSkeen01]

I really don't want to insult Americans. Most of the theologians I read are American and I have great respect for your thought-leaders biblically and otherwise; but the very fact that a video like this is even necessary is an indication of how crazily weird your society is. The earth is flat because the Bible teaches it. Really? We have God-given intellects. It would really be helpful for people to use their intellects. Speak to any sailor from the last several thousand years, any pilot, any astronaut, anyone who monitors satellites. They will be able to tell you what the shape of the earth is. Only in America would a video like this be necessary! The rest of the world just shakes its head in disbelief. Thanks for your videos Mike. They are incredibly well researched and I have found them to be really useful. I appreciate your gracious acceptance of all the criticism and vitriol that you get, without letting it raise your hackles.

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

I don't know where you are, but there are flat earthers literally, all over the globe. Pardon the pun.

[@wardrobegirl67]

We are sorry we believe Yahuah. I will stick with Yahuah over Mike Winger. Let Yahuah be true and every man a liar.

[@nazukeoya]

As a classical artist, I can confirm that your buddy is handcrafting those mugs and I LOVE it. He clearly has his own kiln-or personal access to one, and he's hand glazing those mugs with underglaze and outer glaze. They aren't shipped in from China, those must be hand made labors of love. Thank you for your solid teaching!

[@georgemaly4747]

So when the stars fall, does this mean suns will fall to the earth ?

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

1:33:33 Did you watch the video? Probably not, huh?

[@elib9002]

Of course not friend! stars could never fall to earth! even though Jesus firmly believed so! :D (Just so we clear, this is clearly sarcasm...)

[@JesusismyGOD]

WEAPONS that looked like stars, that the ancient mind would have never understood. This is perspective from ancient times.

[@elib9002]

@@JesusismyGOD do not add nor subtract from the Word of God, friend. Jesus said so, so I would stop trying to make what he says mean something you like instead of what it says.

[@elib9002]

@@JesusismyGOD Aslo. Jesus isn't your God if you don't believe what he says.

[@SimplicityOfLove]

How can you have an eclipse Of the moon unless the earth is inbetween the moon and the sun

[@FrankGrauStudio]

One can only assume flat-earthers have never taken a very long trip in a plane…

[@choosejesus1910]

Mike, it troubled me when you said even if the Bible said the Earth is flat you wouldn't believe it. Even Globe earthers should be worried. Would you believe in Flat Earth if Jesus taught it?

[@WilliamDeanIII]

I've watched a lot of Mike's videos and it seemed off that he would make this comment. It's disturbing to hear that and I hope it was just misguided comment and not what he truly believes.

[@choosejesus1910]

@@WilliamDeanIII I hope so as well.

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

The earth is round, though... I believe in the Bible because I think it leads me to truth. If I had incontrovertible evidence that it was flat-out wrong (lol) on such a basic thing, I'd reconsider my search for truth. If you're willing to believe something that is evidently false then you can't honestly say you care about the truth.

[@kelslo74]

A lot of this video troubled me. Very disappointed at how he approached this.

[@mangafan9991]

If the Bible said dogs have wings would you believe it??

[@bruceaskin9645]

To Mike Winger, ok I can accept what you are saying, but have you applied the same amount of critique to the globe model, because it is way off.

[@antoinettegabrielle3991]

how is it "way off"?

[@bruceaskin9645]

@@antoinettegabrielle3991 you need to search this for yourself. No curvature has ever been seen or measured, any water other than a droplet always finds level. No spin of earth has ever been measured or detected. The sun and moon can be proven to be close to the earth. The star movements do not fit the globe model. Boats that appear to have gone over the horizon can be brought back into view with a decent camera or telescope, etc etc etc. Try finding any absolute proof of a spinning ball orbiting the sun. I thought that fe was crazy and tried to prove it wrong and found zero proof of globe earth, just unproven theories and excuses for why theory doesn't meet reality. In the bible start by reading genesis 1 for what it says, without worldly bias. And pray for discernment. Here's a scientific fact the isn't enough water on the globe earth to flood the entire earth. Read genesis 11 water came from the great deep and through the windows of the heavens ( called the firmament in genesis 1) from outside the earth. I don't know what shape the earth is, but it's obvious what it is not. Stars are also mentioned as spiritual beings in many books of the bible. In Australia the southern Cross stars are visable all night and every night of the year. Try fitting that into the globe universe theory. If the earth was spinning the stars would move at the same speed as the sun, they do not. In psalms and Isaiah it states, the earth is fixed and does not move. There is the whole earth spinning and orbiting the sun theory destroyed in one verse. Should you choose to search for the truth, above all be honest with yourself. Last word, typing anything fe into Google, yt etc will only lead you to disinformation channels, people calling themselves flat earthers and purposely making fools of themselves

[@toolegittoquit_001]

@@bruceaskin9645 A Ring Laser Gyro proves the Earth's rotation. One of your own did this experiment

[@bruceaskin9645]

Isaiah and psalms. The earth is fixed and does not move. In Australia the southern Cross stars are visible all night and every night of the year. That would be impossible on a spinning ball orbiting the sun. I can be open minded about this and honest with myself, can you. Why do you think I even watched this video. And for the record I agree with Mike the reference to the job verse is incorrect and out of context. But read the whole of job, it contradicts the globe model entirely.

[@bruceaskin9645]

@@toolegittoquit_001 show the proof and I will look at it. However, the official pendulum proof is totally fake, it's controlled by electro magnetic energy. I will still take the word of God above and man made gadget. God said the earth is fixed and does not move. God said He stopped the sun, so you are telling me that He stopped the earth and lied to us. And let's consider this logically, the earth is spinning at a thousand plus mph and suddenly comes to a complete stop, it would disintegrate as a result.

[@tylerlong7733]

what do you think about evolution and dinosaurs?

[@juliacozicova]

Mike, thank you! I agree with you. It is not biblical and it is sad to me when people try to teach about flat earth with Bible! This teaching is not from the Bible! and also read "answers in genesis". It is a big resource. Very good for understanding Genesis 1 to 10.

[@mrcubsfan97]

What about the tower of Babel?

[@CharlieGoy]

Pastor Mike agreed to make the question of whether the earth is flat or spherical a separate video, yet he says at 12:23, “…reading cosmology unto a text (in this case Mark 13:27), that’s just about like local geography”. I agree, but he immediately proceeds to debunk the flat earth model using this same text as his basis for claiming “on their view the sun doesn’t actually go to the edge of the earth because the ends of the earth are those edges… but the biblical teaching is that the sun seems to, at least from our perspective, go around us.” The key word here is ‘perspective’, so my advice to Pastor Mike is to stay true to his word letting the Bible speak for itself. Then, at 18:07, when presenting the definition of ‘earth’ from the DBL, Pastor Mike says, “Maybe you can read that, I don’t know, most of you probably can’t read that (laughing)”. So, I’m not even twenty minutes into this video and he has already lied to me and now berates me. Am I being too sensitive, or am I just expecting more from a Christian who devotes night and day to understanding the Bible? Nonetheless, I endured listening to this smug pastor to the end finding this video very useful in disassociating the Bible from any cosmology. My advice, instead of pitying those who believe the earth is flat, perhaps investigate for yourselves the 'science' behind modern cosmology. What you are apt to find may astound you. Peace.

[@NoyzRose492]

I agree, Mike always acts like such a 'know-it-all' and seems to look down at people who don't think like he does. I don't understand why he has so many followers

[@xorcist1984]

@CharlieGoy, you are right. This so-called pastor is smug who believes NASA (stems from the Hebrew "nasha" meaning "lies") over our Lord. I can't i there are "Christians" who are still deceived by the Old Serpent. Keep living in ignorance and stupidity, Pastor Mike

[@xorcist1984]

@CharlieGoy, you are right. This so-called pastor is smug who believes NASA (stems from the Hebrew "nasha" meaning "lies") over our Lord. I can't believe there are "Christians" who are still deceived by the Old Serpent. Keep living in ignorance and stupidity, Pastor Mike.

[@sidgar1]

The science of cosmology is solid, based on measurements and calculations and evidence. I agree we should all question what we are taught, but the science in this case is abundantly clear. The problem isn't pitying Christian flat-earthers, but regretting the damage they are doing to the reputation of our faith. If unbelievers understand science and know the earth is round, Christians who teach others it's flat will reject Christianity as also a lie. They will think that if Christians are teaching something that can overwhelmingly be proven false (flat earth), the rest of our beliefs must also be false. They are doing more damage than good ("anyone who does not help Me gather is really scattering”). They are not gathering souls but pushing them away by attaching a lie to our faith.

[@somethinggood9267]

Mike i appreciate your scholarly attitude towards this and commending a more accurate study of scripture. I didnt know about reading the Bible in context till about 3 years ago, and it has made a lot of difference. It is very common to read what we want in scripture because unfortunately a lof of churches dont teach the correct way to read the bible. I used to think I could just take a verse and apply it to my life. It can cause a lot of false doctrine including prosperity gospel. God bless you for real.

[@monsterhuntervideos4446]

When taken in context the Bible supports a stationary Earth over a flat plane. In no way does it support the heliocentric model. The video is biased from the start. You have to turn every verse about the Earth into a figure of speech in order to avoid this truth. Either way a spherical Earth isn’t taught, not even in Isaiah.

[@cto511987]

​@Innocent Bystander The globe is no different than evolution, it took some time for that nonsense to become clearer to those who fear the Lord but in the end those who want the truth will dig for it as they do precious stones, gold and silver. It's not going to be given to you on a silver platter but in the end you will stand in awe of the lies which we have believed namely: EVOLUTION, BIG BANG, AGE OF THE EARTH (MILLIONS/BILLIONS OF YEARS), NEW BIBLE PERVERSIONS (TEXTUAL CRITICISM), ALIENS, and on and on and on.... The lies are real as told by Jesus Christ Himself: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

[@cto511987]

@Innocent Bystander I rest my case. Your belief in evolution even as a theory is contrary to Gods word friend.

[@True_Christian]

Read the Bible properly and in context *100% proves* that God has declared the earth to be flat, stationary, set upon pillars enclosed by the Firmament, with Heaven above, Hell below, Waters over the Firmament, the sun that revolves around us, the moon that is and gives her own light, etc. etc. There are literally hundreds of biblical verses that assert such things. In contrast, *zero* verses support the heliocentric globe model whatsoever. So the million dollar question is: why are people like you and Mike siding against what scriptures actually say? What is your biblical basis for doing that?

[@True_Christian]

​@Innocent Bystander No, the globe is definitely *not* a fact, but rather, a Luciferian and vehemently anti-biblical myth. You assert otherwise solely because you've been indoctrinated to do so. But here's the problem: the Bible itself opposes your beliefs. So why do you refuse to take God at His Word?

[@skidmark7845]

Anytime Wikipedia high jacks your video, you know your on to something

[@dux657]

Ironically, that article of Wikipedia shows that the bible indeed says the earth is flat.

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

@@dux657 Again, where is your evidence, troll?

[@cl230]

I’m here to learn because I love the Lord and His word. Having a friend introduce me to flat earth while I was in paganism/occult was one of the stepping stones to bringing me to Christ. I had thought flat earthers were crazy but after deep diving into it it began to make more sense. Now, I still have questions- I don’t know everything there is on globe earth as much as I don’t know everything there is spoken about flat earth. I am open to understanding. My focus is still and always will be on Jesus. Brining truth to His word matters to me greatly! I do think much of what we are taught in schools is a mess of lies, so relying on school textbooks-even college ones aren’t an argument for me in saying what’s truth. Whats written by man has an agenda- always. What’s written by the Lord IS TRUTH. God bless you all, in Yeshua’s name Amen 🕊️

[@libertyresearch-iu4fy]

I can tell you that flat earthers lie, a lot. For instance, flat earth has been around for less than 200 years. The major thought accepted geocentrism until heliocentrism replaced it. BTW, geocentrism is different than flat earth.

[@aceventura5398]

Place a pen on a rotating ball and see how it moves evenly around. But our sun arc's around. This arc is only possible on the flat earth. Summer sun in Australia has the sun moving 3, 12, 9 clock face. A ball earth will have the sun move 3 in line to 9 it's a straight path. The heliocentric sun can not arc. Try the experiment. Use a prism as it's easy to keep level and true. The pen will remain in a straight line. No arc. Earth is FLAT with a spiraling anti clock wise sun. Its the only explanation for the 3, 12, 9. But Australia needs to be nearer the north pole. The tightening spiral gives the extream arc. The opening allows for the winter arc. The poles are off limits to citizens. The sun reveals the truth when you think.

[@Deletirium]

I have a firm, and easily relatable grasp on the nuts & bolts of how our world can only be a sphere, if you ever have a specific question, feel free to ask. I'm a Christian as well, and these flerf idiots do more damage than our reputation has already suffered from the "prosperity" types, televangelists, and loud mouthed fundies combined.

[@sarahkeen526]

Hey man, glad you're here! I can tell you what comvinced the ancient scientists. They noticed that when they watched a boat go out to sea, it disapeared from bottom to top over the horizon. This indicated to them that the earth was a sphere. They then did expiraments to confirm it, but I'll leave that to your research. If you live in an area where you can watch ships leaving to sea, I would recommend trying it for yourself. Hope this helps!

[@aceventura5398]

@@sarahkeen526 The exact same thing happens if a person walks away from an observer on a dead flat road. First his shoes disappear then his legs, then hips, torso, then his head. No curve needed. Just a natural phenomenon science called convergence.