Interviewing Bart Ehrman about Hell, Souls, and Jesus

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[@ReligionForBreakfast]

Sign up for Dr. Ehrman's and Dr. Licona's Easter Debate here: bartehrman.com/easterdebate

[@johncalabria1607]

Perfect dude, looking forward to his web-seminar. During one of your covid steaks last year I asked you a similar questions along the line of this and you recommended a great book to read that I enjoyed but the name is escaping me. I’d love to see a video on if the early church thought Christ was divine, and what the textual evidence is.

[@karlxtrava]

Nice score for the channel! Congrats

[@andrewc1205]

Definitely more content like this, please. I actually just recommended you to the channel Mythvision Podcast for your knowledge in Biblical Archeology. It would be great to see a collaboration!

[@Draganism]

@@fitzfitzgerald1249 Bizarre

[@Draganism]

@@fitzfitzgerald1249 Racist

[@samanthasemi8398]

"Do you want more content like this?" That must be a rethorical questions. OF COURSE, we want more of this!!!! AWESOME interview!!!

[@bluellamaslearnbeyondthele2456]

What have you learned?

[@daddyleon]

Totally, I love interviews, yes!

[@e42musi]

@@bluellamaslearnbeyondthele2456 Hell and the immortal soul are rather new concepts, historically speaking.

[@damienkai651]

Please no more content like this

[@chansesturm7103]

@@damienkai651 Why not?

[@Cordoba82]

This is how interviews are done! No talking over the guest, intelligent questions , elevated discourse. This is how is done. Thanks.

[@contentinternational]

@America Israel and India is terrorist so what?

[@ANDROLOMA]

@@contentinternational He's rolling and trolling. Don't feed the trolls.

[@Cordoba82]

@America Israel and India is terrorist Again, This is how interviews are done! No talking over the guest, intelligent questions , elevated discourse. This is how is done. Thanks.

[@kenmoretoast]

Helps when both members basically agree with each other on everything

[@dashingtherouxthesnow4017]

A collab with Bart Ehrman, are you kidding me!? This is one of the best notifications I've gotten from you. One of my favourite Bible scholars and one of my favourite KZbinrs.

[@contentinternational]

@America Israel and India is terrorist so what?

[@ANDROLOMA]

I too thank Religionforbreakfast for this notification. As far as the Muslim commenter, observe how religious propaganda has so warped his intellect, that he parrots his religion's doctrine of superiority to all other faiths. How sad. His desperation of establishing his faith's antiquity reveals a juvenile propensity to boasting of who has the best god of all gods. That, my friends, is blatant immaturity. Christians exhibit the same braggadocio.

[@jonhillman871]

dr ehrman really knows how to talk about dense material in a way that is easily understood by a general audience. he's like the carl sagan of religious studies.

[@floridaman318]

Wow

[@luismangiaterra1031]

Jon Hillman: Science can not see Science can not hear Science can not talk And I speculate science was torn off of Sagan's face forever before his second death and gnashing of his teeth.

[@molluskweddin]

@@luismangiaterra1031 any “god” that would torture someone for simply being mistaken is no better than a devil.

[@mauzki-]

​@@molluskweddin it's almost like this concept of god being evil and contradicting to the basic principle of an all loving god, isn't from a divine source but instead a very human construct that has very dogmatic and human sounding flaws. Thankfully, modern Christians are starting to read the bit about their god being loving.

[@milliondollarmistake]

@@mauzki- Thankfully modern Christians are starting to leave their faiths behind too.

[@hallroney]

I never cede to be amazed by how influential is Greek culture and thinking in our society

[@NightDocs]

Oh my gosh awesome! I’ve been devouring his books! Just finished his book “Jesus” and it was really informative. I’ve been wanting to see him appear on your channel for awhile because you two are my favorite religious studies academics and 90% of what I know has been from both of you and your work

[@amedley3086]

His book on Jesus is completely full of logical fallacies. Read some Dr. Carrier and really learn something.

[@leoelliondeux]

@@amedley3086 can you provide examples for your claims?

[@allarchitect]

@@leoelliondeux this guy is off his rocker

[@erichodge567]

Bart Ehrman is the hardest working man in New Testament scholarship. He must have done thousands of lectures and interviews by now.

[@moodyrick8503]

Bart was once devout Christian, *but after decades of studying everything he could from the 1st century,* he slowly reasoned himself into disbelief. Thank you for having the conviction to follow the truth wherever it may lead.

[@ianmckagan5395]

Didn't Asimov say the best cure for Christianity was reading the bible?

[@fredroberts8275]

That wasn't the cause of his leaving Christianity; it was the Problem of Evil.

[@moodyrick8503]

@@fredroberts8275 That was Bart's main conflict with the Bible, _but he has never said,_ that it was the only reason why he left Christianity. BTW ; Quote : "That wasn't the cause of his leaving Christianity" ; *The only "cause" I gave, was that he reasoned his way out of Christianity.* How exactly did my statement not apply to Bart _"reasoning his way out of Christianity",_ because he could not reconcile the problem of evil ?

[@logans.butler285]

Doctor Bart D. Ehrman was the author that inspired me to study biblical scholarship, his books are so informative and specially readable for non-specialists. Truly a hero! New Atheists hate him for suggesting that Jesus did exist, and Conservative Christians hate him for suggesting that many books from the NT are forgeries 😂 Being a free-thinker has a price! Kudos to Dr. Ehrman

[@nonprogrediestregredi1711]

I guess you could call me an "internet atheist", although that term seems ambiguous, and I don't hate him for suggesting that Jesus of Nazareth existed historically. Per the historical method, I think it's very probable that he was a historical figure. If I remember correctly, I've read five of Dr. Ehrman's books; I tend to agree with alot of what he says.

[@tmjewel]

Proud internet atheist here. Also a huge fan of Ehrman. (I couldn't finish his NT Gospel series on Great courses plus fast enough!) No reason to "hate" the doc for his belief that there was a historical Jesus. It's a claim that I agree with. However I do wish Ehrman wasn't so dismissive of the mythicist position as if it had zero scholarly merit whatsoever, when more and more that is seeming to be not the case.

[@losttribe3001]

“New atheist”…what a cringe term! And as an atheist, former Christian, I don’t mind Bart Erhman says Jesus existed so I hope you don’t make sweeping statements like that. You are thinking of the mythicist movement with people like Richard Carrier. Jesus (or many people who became the amalgamation of Jesus) probably did exist. But what we know about that time and place is lost to history because it was a time of great illiteracy. So we may never know what truly happened. And that’s the problem: we don’t really know. So many interpretations, denominations, opinions and philosophies came out of that period and it’s clear that if Jesus did exist, something has been lost to translation.

[@rainbowkrampus]

I mean, nowadays "New Atheists" tends to refer to the 2010's people who have largely gone on to be massive chuds/right wing bigots. To say "New Atheists hate." is to be redundant. There are two camps here, historicists and mythicists. You get fringe lunatics on both sides but on the whole I've mostly just seen people trying to argue their points. I don't think hate comes into it anywhere except at the margins.

[@justaway6901]

Jesus existing is not really a problem. The problem is if people claim that the miracles are also historical. That's where the skepticism goes full force.

[@daniel.santos]

You know you've made it when Bart Ehrman is on your KZbin show.

[@auntiehollyd6395]

Bart Ehrmen is someone I really respect and admire. Been following him for a long time and have 3 of his books. Thank you so much for this. I love your content and appreciate all your hard work. Been subscribed for awhile. Tysvm. ❤️

[@DougsDharma]

Loved it Andrew. Bart Ehrman is one of my favorite scholars of the ancient world.

[@contentinternational]

@America Israel and India is terrorist so what?

[@ANDROLOMA]

@@contentinternational Copy/paste, repeat often, and maybe some one will believe you. That's the technique of this Muslim propagandist.

[@Heretical_Theology]

@@ANDROLOMA I reported them for spam. 👍

[@ANDROLOMA]

@@Heretical_Theology Thank you. 👍

[@AlexS-df7qk]

I have never been more excited for a video notification in my life. As a former religious studies student, as well as a huge fan of your channel, and an unapologetic fangirl of Dr. Ehrman (I have read and own so many of his books, watched as many lectures of his as I can, and I'm a silent member of his blog), this is the content I love to see. Now to actually watch the interview, lol. I'm sure I'm going to love it.

[@chendaforest]

I had not heard of him before but 5 minutes in I'm impressed :)

[@TheDizzleHawke]

Ditto for most of that.

[@contentinternational]

@America Israel and India is terrorist so what?

[@infinitemonkey917]

Good stuff. Ehrman's webinar on Revelations was great, as is his book Heaven and Hell. It's amazing how people interpret literally what was obviously a metaphor. Equally baffling is how people think it refers to modern times.

[@dianadeejarvis7074]

History moves in cycles. There really are parallels to current day because the cycles are repeating.

[@TrisjenHarris1203]

Exactly!!!

[@jjester4597]

Omg. The greatest anime crossover of all time.

[@contentinternational]

@America Israel and India is terrorist So what?

[@PaintedHoundie]

@@contentinternational dont entertain him hes weird

[@vvmax4375]

@America Israel and India is terrorist the Al-Aqua mosque actually dates to around 20 BC, the Jewish temple was about 987 BC. The Kaaba is definitely a Muslim construction from around the time of Mohammed.

[@elijahrlopez]

so Islam is anime...makes a whole lot more sense now.

[@vvmax4375]

@America Israel and India is terrorist what is your source for this? The Al-Aqsa Mosque referred to by Muslims today as the "Haram al-Sharif" ("Noble Sanctuary"), an enclosure expanded by King Herod the Great beginning in 20 BCE. The Kaaba was originally devoted to Hubal, not Allah.

[@losttribe3001]

I enjoyed this. You’re a good interviewer and I think these type of videos would be a great addition to your channel. There’s something, to me, about listening to a couple of scholars having an academically based discussion.

[@EvanJHagen]

The only problem with this is that it isn’t 4 hours…;) Was so happy to see this in my notifications!!

[@chewyjello1]

Yep yep!

[@michelottens6083]

The multiple camera perspectives for this was nice, seeing you actually talk to a laptop grounds the other two talking head views in a way that's rare for these type interview videos, far as I've seen. Also very well done interview, thanks.

[@riakm921]

This video was a true joy to watch! More "long"-form interviews are very welcome, as far as I'm concerned.

[@AmikLanfranco]

I thoroughly enjoyed this video; this kind of content is brilliant and I've learned a great deal!

[@contentinternational]

@America Israel and India is terrorist so what?

[@Transterra55]

Outstanding interview. I have attended two presentations by Dr. Ehrman and have read several of his books--he is insightful and erudite, and so down to earth.

[@arcanearya513]

I would love more interviews as long as you keep making your regular content. Best religion channel on KZbin!

[@richardbradley1532]

This is great. You are not pushing a particular viewpoint and that makes the interview so much more useful.

[@fabricebouchon3989]

Andrew Henry interviewing Bart Ehrman,, best KZbin notification ever! This is perfect. NB: yes, more of that please

[@monad5140]

Bart Ehrman, the Boogeyman of Biblical Literalism

[@contentinternational]

@America Israel and India is terrorist so what?

[@ANDROLOMA]

@America Israel and India is terrorist *yawn*

[@xiuhcoatl4830]

@America Israel and India is terrorist no it wasn't

[@Heretical_Theology]

@@gravityfallscanada lol 😂

[@monad5140]

@@gravityfallscanada Gravity Falls, Donald Trump profile pic, bad English, all in one? Go back to watching anime you basement dweller.

[@dapplerosegrey260]

Omg! The best collab ever! I can’t believe you interviewed him! Totally geeking out rn. I’ve read Heaven and Hell-it was so fascinating.

[@Rydonittelo]

this is so interesting, I will certainly be buying this mans book, I'm a Christian and have never heard any of this

[@jackstewart753]

You might like the podcast Lord of Spirits! Start with the Giants episode (the first few episodes are a bit rough with audio)

[@randomperson2078]

If you’re interested in NT studies, Bart is certainly a fascinating scholar. Ilaria Ramelli is one who has lectures with a different take on the NT understanding of the afterlife, saying the understanding of most of its authors is not annihilationism but universalism. If you’re just interested in NT studies in general, Ehrman is a great guy. I’d also recommend people like Craig Keener, John Barclay, and N. T. Wright. I believe Wright agrees with Bart on the NT & the soul, but disagrees about annihilationism.

[@jakejerrison5181]

@@randomperson2078 Who are some good OT scholars?

[@randomperson2078]

@@jakejerrison5181 Walter Brueggemann, Kenton Sparks, Robert Alter, Richard Elliott Friedman, K. Lawson Younger, Gordon Wenham, and Iain Provan.

[@grahamrankin4725]

Definite more like this. An interesting topic as well as a presenter. Perhaps more about Enoch, especially book 2 and 3 which you did not cover in your short form.

[@contentinternational]

@America Israel and India is terrorist so what?

[@scottwarthin1528]

Sweet, double wammy! The man who made me fall (back) in love w/the New Testament being interviewed by the go-to KZbinr for comparative religions. Long time coming, lets hope for more.

[@pnwmeditations]

This is the crossover event I've been waiting for!

[@cjwhitmore1881]

Awesome! Can't wait to watch the entire interview with him! He's one of my favorite writers.

[@justjudy4]

Yes! More interviews of really brainy people would be very good. These are the kind of podcasts I like to watch.

[@enku1]

I think this is great! I've read some of Dr. Ehrman's work before and I always get a lot out of it. I do consistently feel a bit wary of his assertions of what ancient people "believed." It seems a much grander statement than we can know from the textual evidence. Many Christians today recognize the same holy texts and believe very different things. Without a survey sheet and a time machine, I'm not sure we can say what the masses believed.

[@TulilaSalome]

Yes! People also do not always even know what they believe - they may say for example that god is boundless love or something like that, and in their mind believe that is true - it is not a lie to them - yet they believe that if they do wrong, god will be angry, will punish them, or that god hates certain groups of people. And there are a lot of underlying presumptions that are not consciously examined. Like we have with everything, not only religion - not just that kind of conflicting beliefs, just a basis for something. This jam is natural - OK, it must be good, because we have this thought in our heads that natural things are good, and build other presumptions on that.

[@LordJagd]

I agree. I hear all this talk about Second Temple Judaism and their beliefs, including messianism, but very rarely see any primary sources for this information.

[@cheryldeboissiere7824]

Dr. Ehrman has a terrible talent for making assumptions.

[@karlijnlike4lane]

this is cool. i was a religion major at Rutgers in the early-mid '80s when Dr. Ehrman was teaching there, & although a lot of my friends had classes with him, i never had the pleasure. great interview pick. I did have classes with Randall Balmer, who focuses on religion in the U.S., & found his style very engaging & accessible.

[@MusicalRaichu]

There's a dialogue recounted in John's gospel where some Jews attempted to stone Jesus because something he said led them to think that he was claiming to be God. That supports the idea that Jesus believed he was God, but it also presents a legitimate reason why he never said it explicitly. Mark's gospel recounts Jesus early on claiming to forgive sins, presented in the story as something only God can do, and Jesus calling himself the Lord of the Sabbath, as if he had authority over a commandment seen as divinely imposed. My first ever sermon was on this passage. I always wondered whether Jesus understood that he was God, and what struck me preparing the talk was that it seemed that Jesus really did have that understanding but wasn't explicit about it so that he wouldn't alienate people.

[@endless_entity]

People are so stupid. It says that in the bible, why are people asking if Jesus believed He was God

[@endless_entity]

@Simon Wood yes.

[@MusicalRaichu]

@@endless_entity People are not stupid. It's a fair question. Where does the Bible explicitly say that Jesus believed he was God? As Simon explains, Jesus' self-understanding had to be communicated indirectly because otherwise it would have been rejected. This also means that people might not interpret his statements the same way. Hence a question arises and needs to be asked.

[@richardlawson6787]

Nobody even knows who wrote the gospels but we do know this...not a single person...not even one...recorded a word he said so it doesn't matter what they say...let this god speak for itself...I hear crickets

[@MusicalRaichu]

@@richardlawson6787 Isn't that off-topic? The issue is not whether or not the records we have are reliable but whether or not, based on the records we have, Jesus made claims to deity. BTW if "this god" is an alleged all-powerful creator, then I think some humility is called for. God is not obliged to follow your demands, whether to speak to you directly or anything else. Personally, I would trust a written record more than something that could be a passing trick of my imagination. Frankly, if you claimed you heard some voice, I would start to suspect your state of mind ...

[@PKAmedia]

As a very academic nerdy type person, 100% would love for you to do more long form in depth interviews. You're great at asking interesting questions, and making sure that people who don't have theology degrees can follow along with deeper questions in theology. Just great stuff!

[@Epiousios18]

Anyone interested in the questions posed in the second half of this video should read Tolstoy's The Gospel in Brief. You can read it online, and it is well worth your time. It only focuses on the teaching/sayings of Jesus without any of the miracles etc. Tolstoy wrote it based on his study of the original Greek. Truly a fascinating work.

[@TheDizzleHawke]

That reminds me of the Jefferson Bible.

[@chendaforest]

Tolstoy and Gandhi corresponded I believe, which makes for an interesting religious and historical era crossover

[@markgannon9053]

Actually Jesus said the Kingdom was already here and "within" Bart is a cherry picker and very agenda driven

[@TheDizzleHawke]

@@markgannon9053 it depends on which gospel you read.

[@markgannon9053]

@@TheDizzleHawke Maybe some day he'll debate a learned Scholar of faith without the parameters of the debate set so tight he knows he's got wriggle room. But he won't, his audience is either a casual agnostic/atheist type or an uneducated and shocked faith type.

[@haroldwood1394]

Thank you. Bart Ehrman is an excellent scholar, and I would be grateful for any further discussions you might have with him.

[@sexydirrtymoney]

Absolutely love this long format....more please!

[@allenhonaker4107]

One of the most unbiased biblical scholars of the modern era. Love all his books. If I was going to do a thesis of biblical history I think I would choose the application of multiple modern technologies for the location of historical sites and information

[@PatchGuitar1]

Watched a series of Dr. Ehrman's lectures as preparation for my confirmation maaany lifetimes ago and I'm ecstatic to hear he's still as overflowing a fount of knowledge now as he was then

[@stevenv6463]

Confirmation? Like a religious confirmation?

[@AAwildeone]

@@stevenv6463 Same question have I??? Lol

[@PatchGuitar1]

​@@stevenv6463 Yep one of his Great Courses lecture series was part of the education leading up to confirmation in my childhood Dutch Reformed Church in NY. Also went to Catholic school and Mass and all that and was eventually confirmed Catholic, but I much preferred listening to the Doc here talking about the history of the New Testament

[@JonUbick]

I’ve loved your program for a long time! But I also love hearing smart people nerd out together. Very rich discussion.

[@tjscud]

Would love to watch more content like this. It’s really enjoyable (as well as educational) to listen to trained historians interview trained historians and where the interviewer is focused on letting the interviewed do the talking (vs. having some subtle agenda drive the discussion). Really well done! Thanks!

[@QuinnPrice]

Awesome interview! Dr Ehrman is a real scholar and communicates so well. You're a great interviewer and a thought leader in your own right. Love this.

[@dalestaley5637]

Thrilled that factual content is being brought out.

[@robbyhepburn5487]

Dr. Ehrman: "the square root of 9 is always gonna be 3" -3: "allow me to introduce myself"

[@xaayer]

The absolute value is still 3.

[@gimli1908]

Complex numbers: “you called?”

[@addersnap2885]

@Al Jean i think it was a joke and also "wlog" already means without loss of generality

[@cheryldeboissiere7824]

@Al Jean , I laughed.

[@ManiacMageetheG]

I really enjoyed this interview. Not only was the content great, but it was less than a half hour, which is refreshing in an era of hour+ long interviews. Keep them coming.

[@MaxMcAdams]

the format definitely works when you have a charismatic lecturer and I think it fits into the channel pretty well

[@BellalinaBallerina]

This was a fun interview and I enjoyed the discussion

[@marjae2767]

Paul has a vision, which he identifies as the risen Christ. Many other Christians likewise, visions and other miracles which they attribute to Iesus, or soon also visions and miracles which the attribute to Christian martyrs. Isn't it possible that the idea that the spirit continues, instead of being destroyed at death and recreated later, gained popularity because it explained these experiences?

[@randomperson2078]

Not really. These visions, except for Paul’s, are of a physically risen - though transformed - Jesus. Paul’s is a vision of Jesus in heaven, after the ascension, but Jesus didn’t go to heaven via death. Nor did Jesus “continue to exist” after he died until he was resurrected. The idea of a soul which continues after death is a later, 2nd century development, though Ehrman sometimes takes that fact further and implies this makes it some sort of “not true” Christianity.

[@st.mephisto8564]

@@randomperson2078 Sure there appears to be a physicality to it but Christ also appeared and disappeared through walls pointing to a more pneumatic quality

[@randomperson2078]

@@st.mephisto8564 I’m happy saying that Jesus seemed to be pneumatically transformed, but I don’t think it’s accurate to refer to the Resurrection as spiritual.

[@nedsantos1415]

I love the interview. It's thought-provoking and refreshing.

[@ANDROLOMA]

Smart people learn from everything and everyone, average people from their experiences, stupid people already have all the answers. -Socrates

[@travisk6221]

I learn everything just like I learned that his view of what Jesus thought is kinda Bs and god forgive me for judging, but I don’t like how he said what Jesus believed

[@alibarron7558]

The story has been told so many thousands of times with everyone having a different interpretation that in all probability there will be little change in the belief of the masses from what is current. We will never know for sure if there was ever a Jesus who is like what we picture in our on minds now, or if he/she was something totally different or not at all.

[@coolbreeze2.0-mortemadfasc13]

I have his course on the New Testament from The Great Courses. It was enlightening.

[@robbabcock_]

Fantastic interview! Dr. Ehrman is great, it's always wonderful to hear his insights into anything.

[@rainbowkrampus]

The ways changing concepts like souls and cosmology interact with religious beliefs is super interesting. You can clearly see the shift in concepts in the hebrew bible as the common understanding of the world moves from a 4 pillars type through to an Aristotelian model. Meanwhile greeks that the early christians were evangelizing thought the soul was immaterial in some capacity, so boom, the air like spirit gets abstracted another layer in order to gain more followers and a new concept is born. It will be interesting to see if, as religiosity continues to decline, theists will revamp the concept of the soul yet again in order to attract people in the "spiritual but not religious" crowd. I'd also wager that "karma" will get rolled in at some point.

[@tierfreund780]

This is great. I've seen many of Dr. Ehrmans talks already but I'd be really interested in seeing more interviews and being introduced to more religious scholars through this channel.

[@MrVincentTremblay]

I can't believe out of nowhere Ehrman made two KZbin appearance!!

[@amedley3086]

But interestingly he simply will not debate Dr. Carrier. Way to afraid of facts to do that.

[@lawsonj39]

@@gravityfallscanada H Ehrman's agenda is historical: he's looking at the evidence without a pre-determined outcome that he's trying to prove, and his conclusions are entirely reasonable.

[@rachel_sj]

The Religious Cinematic Universe Collab I’ve been waiting for is here!! Just found out about this new video (from your Patreon fundraising livestream, had to take a break and watch this, lol) and I would LOVE more videos like this one. Keep up the great work Andrew!!

[@mariojardonsantos7568]

I have barely clicked on it and I have already said "What a breakfast!"

[@samiam3297]

Daaaaaang! You got the interview ive always wanted. Nice!!! ☺

[@edew9180]

Subbed. Keep this up. I was a casual watcher before. I LOVE hearing religious folks' side, perspective and mentality. No need to be dismissive or arrogant (you weren't either). But hearing educated people on their religion is fascinating. Do islam, african bushcraft, taoism, idc. Just do more.

[@simplicityistheultimatesop6571]

Islam is the right religion.

[@karimchaibi7620]

Very Informative. Intelligent questions and oh boy! extremely informative answers. Kudos for this great interview and thanks to this I signed up for Dr. Ehrman's webinar.

[@anthony7960]

Dude this is HUGE. Wow big props on even getting Bart on here. Great interview

[@LadySaoirse]

Really enjoyed this interview. Thank you for sharing and posting. 🙂

[@scienceexplains302]

I don’t understand talking about the gospels as a group in relation to accuracy about Jesus. Why would we think that Matthew’s changes and additions 10 years later to Mark’s text would be equally accurate as Mark? If there is any accuracy in the gospels about Jesus, it will be found almost entirely in Mark. And Mark writes as if he is writing fiction (e.g. dramatic irony). But I always learn a lot from Ehrman

[@diegotobaski9801]

I'm a hundred percent certain that modern New Testament scholarship unanimously considers Mark(and the rest of the gospels) as Greco-Roman biographies. As to how dramatic the writings are, well, try to read some other Greco-Roman biographies.

[@scienceexplains302]

@@diegotobaski9801 The characteristics that qualify them as biographies do not rule out fiction. For example, John qualifies on the origins aspect by saying Jesus existed from the beginning as a word. Some aspects have to be fiction, since they are so contradictory about fundamental aspects of Jesus (Mark vs John on the nature of Jesus, Pauline vs Petrine on whom Jesus came to save) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_biography?wprov=sfti1 An example of dramatic irony would be Jesus saying “why have you forsaken me?” as a reference to Psalm 22, which is a psalm of faith, not loss of it, as the first verse seems to indicate. The readers can figure that out, but the characters in the story do not.

[@bobyoung3857]

@@diegotobaski9801 Its similar to medicine in ancient times. We can look back at old practices and much of it was awful but nevertheless it propelled us to better practices. Its kind of the same with biblical scholarship. Comparing it to external greco roman biographies, they both contain fictional elements in writing style but its like bible scholars are reluctant to admit it and refuse to reform the field or change their views on the text.

[@waderogers]

In Matthew, 27:50 it says “And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.” Compare that to Mark 15:37: “But Jesus let out a loud cry and breathed His last.”. Saying that when someone died, a quote gave up the ghost“ is a colloquial way of saying that the person breathed their last breath. It doesn’t really mean that a ghost, or a spirit came out of the body at the moment of death, but rather that the breath which is equated with the spirit, or the soul ceased to function, and the person died.

[@CJ-uk1rt]

This collab is brilliant. I was so happy when I saw you collab with Fillip as well!

[@susanstein6604]

I just came upon this interview even though it’s two years old. I’m Jewish. I was never threatened with Hell. A born again Christian asked me if I knew if was going to Happen or Hell. I didn’t know if Jews believed in Hell because no one had ever mentioned hell, not even once. There are a few ancient prayers that praise God who brings the dead back to life but most Jews don’t believe it literally. A Hasidic master said you should think about what part of you is dead.

[@joelgonsalves625]

Do an interview with Dr. Richard Carrier

[@LordJagd]

That would pull the rug under a great deal of biblical scholarship, since so much is written presupposing a historical Jesus.

[@SirAnthonyChirpsALot]

This is fantastic. I'd love for you to keep this up!

[@Kitsaplorax]

Within Turkic and Siberian cultures, there are four or five different parsable components that are non physical. There isn't a single soul.

[@bluellamaslearnbeyondthele2456]

What would those be ? The same is true for the ka, ba, reh and two other concepts from Egyptian mythology. Do these overlap ?

[@Antrolf]

Also the norse had 4

[@yrobtsvt]

Rabbinic Judaism also has 5 souls

[@Duiker36]

Aztecs apparently had teyolia, tonalli, and ihiyotl.

[@seanvalentine4198]

“The ancient Egyptians postulated seven souls”

[@therenewedpoet4292]

even as a believer I like Dr. Ehrman's approach to NT. I guess we fall on different sides on what the "we can't know" questions, but he's a great source. do more interviews for sure!

[@dyinteriors]

Great interview. You both are remarkable and respected authorities on the Jesus figure! Would you also be willing to interview Dr. Richard Carrier as a contrast to Dr. Bart Ehrman? I personally would find that remarkably interesting indeed!

[@wemblyfez]

Would love to see more interviews like this; I've been reading Bart Ehrman for years; looking forward to "attending" the webinar.

[@baxterwilliams2170]

Two of my favorite scholars together!

[@ericinoregon5726]

I loved this discussion. On its face, the topic appears concise and straightforward. Yet you both covered a lot of ground. In Listening to your discussion I definitely felt like I was in the deep end of the pool. Thank you for posting, love your channel!

[@virginiahansen320]

Dr. Ehrman is brilliant, but the problem I, and most people within the religious studies world (including I suspect ReligionForBreakfast), have with him is that so much of his work is totally speculative and often includes mind-reading people in contradiction to their recorded words. That's not a problem in and of itself, we all do that, but Dr. Ehrman speaks of his ideas with a sense absolute ontological certitude. The result is that people outside the field take what he says and run with it as though it's true, when it's actually just his personal (and often idiosyncratic) interpretation of the available data. Some of his views are mainstream scholarship, some of them are way outside the mainstream, but he makes no real effort in his public-facing persona to inform anybody about that.

[@cuckoophendula8211]

Don't mind me. I just wanted to comment here saying that I realized I watched this video before, but remembered how I liked it so much that I'm watching it again!

[@jdmbapastor5172]

I would love to hear a discussion with Luke Timothy Johnson.

[@chewyjello1]

YEEEEESSSSSS!!!! MORE LONG FORM CONTENT! I do enjoy listening to and reading Bart Ehrman. He is incredibly knowlegable, though I would say his main role in biblical scholarship right now is as a rock star/gate keeper. But this was a great interview with insightful, interesting questions! :) I'm addicted to listening to long form conversations and interviews while I'm running errands, cleaning house, etc. I actually prefer 1-3hr long conversations (I wouldn't even consider 24 mins long form lol). I listen to so much that sometimes I run out of interesting content. I especially love conversations about religion. If you do more, I can promise to fully listen to every one! :)

[@goodlookingcorpse]

So it's a combination of Judaism and Greek philosophy. Isn't that true of Christianity in general?

[@deepspacedime3229]

more content like this would benefit your viewers. interviews are excellent ways of presenting new and old topics of conversation. thank you!

[@RazOfTheVoid]

Just as a Hebrew speaker I must correct and say that the word for breath in Hebrew (נשימה - Neshima) is close to the word *soul* (נשמה - Neshama) not spirit. Spirit is more akin to רוח- Ruach, as in, what you are left with when the soul is disembodied. Also God does not breathe into the clay, but places breath in it. Which is more poetic in my opinion. It's a metaphor. I do not think that the original authors of that origins story actually meant that god literally put breath into the clay, I think it's just a figurative way of saying "gave it life". They are not describing the process, just the result. Also also, saying that because Jesus was a Jew at that time he didn't believe in an afterlife is really assuming too much in my opinion. During his lifetime there was already a vast tradition of mysticism, apocalypticism and several beliefs in an after life, at least by some communities. Plus, throughout the generations, Jews have been influenced by the religions that were around them, as we even find in the Hebrew bible, so the assumption that a person in Judah believed or didn't believe in something based solely on the time and place is a bit too speculative in my opinion. Like Dr. Ehrman himself says, it's not like there's a single opinion in Judaism. You know what they say, you put 2 Jews in a room, you get 5 different opinions... I met Jews that believe in an after life AND in the resurrection at the end of times, and have absolutely no idea how they reconcile the two... I think we can say that the Hebrew bible does not talk of an afterlife (except for a couple of clues), and other regional religions didn't believe in an afterlife, or at least not in the modern Christian sense of the word, (there is the concept of שאול - Sheol in second temple Judaism, of course, which kind of reminds me of Hades), and therefore we can say that the historical Jesus probably did not believe in the afterlife as modern Christians believe in it, but it is impossible for us to say for sure what he did or did not believe in. Other than that, I always love your content. I studied religious studies at uni (and outside of it) and I came across several KZbin channels that deal with these issues, and none is more fun, educational, eye opening and reliable than yours.

[@WildVoltorb]

Dude, c'mon, I think they know. You're more than welcome to the debate when your book is published

[@neocyte85]

who said that jesus didn't believe in the afterlife?

[@neocyte85]

soul and spirit, in the sense of the conversation, are only different when defined theologically. bart ehrman being a bible scholar definitely knows that and is therefore conflating the two as the discussion is mainly on the belief or non-belief of man's dualistic nature. also also, your point about the spirit being placed into the body instead of being breathed into it is purely semantics and is therefore irrelevant.

[@RazOfTheVoid]

@@WildVoltorb Thank you, oh gate keeper of the comment section. I will inform you when the book is indeed published.

[@rebmedina2835]

I like this question and answer format

[@19king14]

This sounds most reminiscent of Jehovah's Witnesses as far as the soul and body. When the body dies, you stay dead until you're resurrected on a cleansed earth and judged. Likewise they don't believe Jesus is God or claimed to be so. Yes, the Messiah, the Son of God but not God himself or anything of the trinity doctrine.

[@19king14]

Whatever name you wish to call them, they are still capable of reading the bible (any translation) and knowing what's in it.

[@mr.hazamayukiterumi2909]

@@OG-Malinali Dude, not cool

[@extremelylargeslug4438]

Yes, it does sound the same. However, JW’s split into Heavenly and Earthly class from a literally interpretation of the 144,000. Bart doesn’t mention such a distinction

[@19king14]

True

[@wilkiebunkers1352]

Wow... I'm very grateful for this collaboration

[@marcblur9055]

How would Luke 23:43 "“Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” play into this discussion of the destination of the soul after death? Granted, it's a later gospel, but did thought of the soul and where it goes change that quickly, maybe under the influence of latter Paul?

[@bellingdog]

also, the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus. And where Christ says God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, a God of the living, not the dead. We also have to remember that many of his disciples were Jews, from Galilee, not Jews from Alexandria or Aphrodisius where Hellenic ideas were more implemented there then where Christ is performing His ministry.

[@Mrm1985100]

Can be translated "Truly I tell you today, you will be with in paradise". He's saying today, in the sense of now in this moment, while they were both being crucified. The sense would be that even in this extreme situation Jesus can assure him of his salvation.

[@Mrm1985100]

@@bellingdogThat's discussing the resurrection. God will resurrect Abraham, Isaac and Jacob so for this reason they are alive to him: The Sadducees and the Resurrection (Matthew 22:23-33; Luke 20:27-40) 18Then the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus and questioned Him: 19“Teacher, Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man is to marry his brother’s widow and raise up offspring for him.d 20Now there were seven brothers. The first one married and died, leaving no children. 21Then the second one married the widow, but he also died and left no children. And the third did likewise. 22In this way, none of the seven left any children. And last of all, the woman died. 23In the resurrection, then,e whose wife will she be? For all seven were married to her.” 24Jesus said to them, “Aren’t you mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? 25When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Instead, they will be like the angels in heaven. 26But concerning the dead rising, have you not read about the burning bush in the Book of Moses, how God told him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’f? 27He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!”

[@bellingdog]

@@Mrm1985100 yeah, that is not how the early Church interpreted that scripture. As you noted, verse 27 says He is not the God of the dead, but the living, all whilst talking about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Thus, for the early Church (and those of us who still belong to that Church), when Christ says that God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, then says He is not the God of the dead, then where are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? If they are dead, then Christ is a lier, but if Christ is proclaiming the truth, then they are alive, and their soul and spirit are thus separate from their bodies. Also, when Christ says "Father, into your hands I offer my spirit", what does He mean? If Christ believes the body and soul and spirit are united, why would he offer this supplication at his death? Would not He be more theologically correct (if Ehrmann is right) to say "Father, I give you my body, soul and spirit"? And, what about when Christ says that He will give them a sign, the sign of Jonah? (Matt. 12:38-41) He even says He will be in the heart of the Earth, as this is the understanding of Hades, being the "underworld", in the heart of the earth.

[@Mrm1985100]

@@bellingdog It's literally talking about the resurrection. Jesus is saying they are going to be resurrected. That is what the discussion is about. You can't just read a single verse outside of the greater context.

[@JAR2.0]

Truly an excellent video well worth the time to view and consider seriously. Important issues introduced in a professional manner that effectively illuminate the fine points of interest regarding the historical context of Jesus as revealed by reasonable evidence.

[@Jacob-yg7lz]

You should do a video on Swedenborgianism, it seems like such a weird religion that I feel like I need you to explain it to me to understand it.

[@josearmandoalonsoarenas3005]

Great interview. Learnyt about the main topic and also about scientific paradigms. Just loved it.

[@qboxer]

Dr Ehrman has an interesting tendency to say things such as 'Jesus believed X'. Whilst I know that his academic credentials are impeccable, I am not sure that they enable him to embed himself directly into the thoughts and beliefs of a specific person, even one so famous as Jesus. Just because 1st Century Jews believed something does not mean that Jesus was in lock step with them in every regard. I find it odd that this is accepted by his audience without critical comment, and disagree with it.

[@ANDROLOMA]

Words which are accredited to a source indicate the thoughts of that source. In the Torah, the incredibility of recording the words of YHWH in several places reflect an amazing tendency of an improbable testimony of the very words and thoughts of that god. Same goes with your comment. We don't have to read your mind if you've communicated effectively. You've expressed your beliefs. Spoken communication is a substitute for clairvoyance.

[@qboxer]

@@ANDROLOMA there are clearly a very wide variety of interpretations on what Jesus meant when he said things- hence my incredulity at statements saying definitively that Jesus believed X Y or Z. This is particularly galling from a scholar.

[@ANDROLOMA]

@@qboxer A better god and a better savior would have stuck with simple sayings and reduced complexity, instead of speaking so incredibly ambiguously. An omniscient deity would have seen future complications, and responded accordingly. None of that ever did happen. All the ancient writings are static, and impossible to revise.

[@qboxer]

@@ANDROLOMA I am sorry that you feel this way. I shall endeavour to pray for you, brother.

[@ANDROLOMA]

@@qboxer "Religion is a phase a species goes through when it evolves enough intelligence to ask profound questions but not enough to answer them." -Bill Flavell

[@BlackedOutBuddhist]

Excellent interview my brother! I love your short-form content but also really enjoyed this as well.

[@danielpaulson8838]

Geeze, this was a treat. I appreciate both your work. I have some Erhrman lectures from the Great Courses. I go a tad fringe on this Jesus issue. I treat him like a Lau Tzu or a Buddha. He may or may have not existed, but it's about a body of work. You have to decode his cryptic verse in a certain way. The 'measure you mete unto others...' and 'Karma' are just a few glaring similarities. Seek emptiness. (Buddha) Blessed are the poor in spirit. (Jesus) The verses point a way. But most people want to worship or deny the messenger. Just look in the box. It's what IS there.

[@theheilious]

Dr. Henry, I love these. The topics are challenging!

[@Epiousios18]

Instantly started to lose interest when this man began with saying things like "What Jesus believed was...." or "Jesus certainly didn't believe..." Okay.

[@rainbowkrampus]

Yeah, that tends to be the problem with Ehrman. He's declarative where he should probably hedge. Academic clickbait, basically. Then again, if you're going to tie yourself to one position, you're probably going to go all in.

[@Epiousios18]

@@rainbowkrampus Very true, I think you are right about the reasons behind it and I did enjoy the rest of the interview, but something about the declarative statements really did rub me the wrong way (I wasn't familiar with Ehrman before this). Especially because I thought about how one of the main aspects of Jesus' teaching seems to have been challenging the Jewish Orthodoxy of the time. Basing ideas about Jesus' thought on that of the people who clearly disagreed with him doesn't seem like a safe call, imo.

[@rainbowkrampus]

@@Epiousios18 Well, people can disagree about some things while still largely agreeing about others. Jesus was not a complete refutation of 2nd temple judaism. It's pretty clear there was still a lot of overlap. My big problem is in claiming we can know what Jesus thought at all. The bible borrows from so many other places and allegorizes hard at times. At best I think we can build an idea of what the various biblical authors thought Jesus might think. It seems like a step too far to say much more than that.

[@Epiousios18]

@@rainbowkrampus Sure, but what are the things they agreed upon and what wasn't? Especially when stark differences were certainly the case. I think we both agree on that hence why we aren't a fan of the declarative statements Ehrman makes at times. I think we have a better idea than just what people "thought Jesus might think," but I wouldn't go as far as saying we know anything "definitive" in terms of details either. Everyone is free to believe how accurate they think what we have in the Gospels is though. I'm not sure anything beyond the core of his teaching is needed anyways, which I do believe that we have. Have you ever read Tolstoy's The Gospel in Brief? (WikiSource is the way I read it). In it Tolstoy focuses on the core of his teachings without any miracles or Orthodoxy, it did convince me that the details of what he said don't really matter anyways.

[@AAwildeone]

Well, this is the difference between a theological and a historical perspective, is it not? Religionists trust whatever sect they belong to to tell them what their god really said, or what his personality was like, or what he believed. A secular biblical historian simply makes sense out of the text and context, without the theology. Each of them are extrapolations, and it's up to a sober, discerning judgment which makes better sense.

[@ketchmain]

Finally! Been waiting for something like this from you.

[@karekarenohay4432]

It amazes me how scholars about early Christianity can take as "source" the gospel of John. John was written about sixty-seventy years after the death of Jesus, in a time when there was already multiple branches of the original faith, mainly Gnosticism, that wrote multiple "gospels" and made-up stories about Christ to support their beliefs. John is part of this atmosphere, and so it's not reliable. It's too different from the synoptics and too later to be taken as a reliable source of the true words of Jesus. The influence of Gnosticism in the beginning, with Jesus being the "light" that came from the divine to illuminate the realm of darkness is clear.

[@AAwildeone]

Not even a tease about this? It's kind of like coming home from work and seeing a Nobu pop-up on the street-corner! Totally awesome!