Review: Bezzera BZ13 PM & DE Espresso Machines

In-depth review of the updated Bezzera BZ13 PM & DE espresso machines. These best value heat-exchange boiler machines are a Whole Latte Love exclusive. Featuring PID brew temp control and electronically heated group, the BZ13 is fully warmed up and ready to brew in just 8. Updates: Bottomless portafilter, shot timer, wire style drip tray, rosewood trim, 4 body colors and more. Get a look inside the BZ13 and see steaming performance test. Plus specifications compared to competing machines. See 2 grinders that pair well with the BZ13. The Bezzera BB005 a best value and the Eureka Mignon Magnifico with 55mm diamond inside burrs.
Products in this video:
Bezzera BZ 13 PM: www.wholelattelove.com/produc...
Bezzera BZ 13 PM w/Rosewood: www.wholelattelove.com/produc...
Bezzera BZ13 DE: www.wholelattelove.com/produc...
Bezzera BZ13 DE w/Rosewood: www.wholelattelove.com/produc...
BB05 Grinder Rosso: www.wholelattelove.com/produc...
Talk to our experts via chat or email: www.wholelattelove.com/contac...
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[@qwe7410]

As someone who repairs espresso machines. The Bezzera BZ groupheads surprises me as one of the best designed espresso machines in the market. They are extremely serviceable and has much less issues with coffee trapping around the grouphead causing dirty tasting espressos. If you value longevity, you will need to know this. It also has a very fast startup time in the grouphead and boiler, way faster and cleaner than the E61.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi q, Thanks for lending your professional opinion of the BZ group! Marc

[@lejeq]

What other dual boiler machines would You recommend?

[@qwe7410]

@@lejeq Depends on what you find important, the total start-up time, reliability, value, 110v/230v, thermal stability in the coffee extraction or stronger steam strength. Most DBs are designed differently. The larger the steam boiler, the stronger and better the steam. The larger the coffee boiler, the more stable the brew temp, but the more stale water is retained. The larger the total size of the two boilers, the longer the starting-up time. Some machines, particularly in the USA, can only heat up one heating element at a time, which starts slower. Bezzera DB is designed for a quicker start-up to be more energy efficient. LMLM for stronger steam, faster turnover of water in the brew boiler but likely less stable and longer start-up time I'll prefer Bezzera or LMLM for DB, they have stronger characteristics that are either good for home users or for good results. VBM/Rocket/ECM are generally similar, with the difference in the start-up time and functions. You will need good support for the machines. If you are located in the USA, WLL can give you better advice. They have been giving solid help to the community. For homes, I prefer a heat exchanger for its simplicity and reliability.

[@cherylschwarz3950]

Mine is out for delivery! I’m so excited!

[@MarkJames-wm7to]

Love these Whole Latte Love videos but Mark’s videos are so excellent. His voice and confidence delivers the perfect videos!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey Mark, Thanks for the kind comment! Marc

[@Luforge]

Once again, a very detailed and comprehensive video Marc. Love your work!!☕☕👍

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey J, Thanks a whole latte for the comment. Just returned from the SCA show in Boston. On my way back I stopped in NYC and spent a day at Devocíon Roastery in Brooklyn. We sampled many excellent Colombian coffees with their staff made with various flow profiles on a Dalla Corte Zero commercial machine. Their lead machine tech told me he watches our channel regularly and refers customers interested in home espresso to my videos. Check out Devocíon in Williamsburg here - an awesome shop: www.devocion.com/pages/devocion-cafe-williamsburg-brooklyn-ny Marc

[@mriverdance]

OMG. Choices. Want to up grade, but so many selections. Appreciate your videos. Thanks.

[@Jez3134]

I bought the BZ10 last week as an upgrade from a Breville infuser. The BZ10 is brilliant, makes incredible shots, has big steam power, built like a battleship. I was worried about the warmup time of a HX machine vs the thermoblock I'd been using. I switch the BZ10 on, weigh and grind my beans, get the milk ready. By the time I've put the milk back in the fridge, put the beans away and grabbed the pan and eggs for breakfast it's ready to pull a shot. Probably the most seamless transition to a higher end machine I could have hoped for. If you guys are looking at upgrading to a HX, Bezzera make some amazing machines. I was also looking at the Mara X and ECM Mechanika, the sub 10min warmup of the BZ10 won me.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey Jeremy, thanks for sharing your experience with the Bezzera! Heated BZ group makes a huge difference! Marc

[@markd2942]

BZ13DE ordered and on its way! Can’t wait!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey Mark, Congrats on the new machine! Marc

[@ozpain1]

Yet another spectacular video!!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Wow, thanks! Marc

[@MongooseReflexes]

Another great review! That's definitely a sharp looking/performing machine. Would you happen to know if Bezzera will be updating their DUO MN anytime soon?

[@wakeawaken430]

I am not a candidate customer as I live in Europe, but I always enjoy your videos, plus Mark seems a nice person

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Glad you like them! Marc

[@budkin]

Looks like an amazing machine, thank you!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

You bet! Marc

[@seanwolfe9321]

Just ordered mine…thanks guys.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Our pleasure!

[@TomJones-tx7pb]

Nice video and a nice machine. Love the internals.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thank you very much! Marc

[@kheops101]

Man I never can get enough of Mark videos! You're doing an amazing job Mark and you're enthusiasm is so uplifting! Thank you for the great videos!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Well thanks so much! Heading to the Specialty Coffee Expo In Boston tomorrow. So excited!!! Marc

[@davidbehm6712]

Recently pulled the trigger on a BZ 13 and Bezzera grinder as an upgrade from the Breville Barista Pro, which finally gave out after 6 years of use and abuse. I've been very happy with the result; the shots taste great, it heats up quick and I can quickly prep multiple drinks in a row. I will say that there are a couple of nuances that are less than ideal...the baskets are definitely not precision (one of the holes in my double basket was not punched through), the water reservoir is a cheap plastic (has a pretty strong plastic-y smell), and the solenoid valve on mine doesn't quite line up with the downspout, so I occasionally get a bit of a spray with hot water after each shot. These are relatively minor things though, and looking back I don't think I would have made a different choice. Its been a journey picking out a prosumer machine and thank you whole latte love for your great content!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi David, Thanks for sharing your thoughts and kind words on our content. Rare for manufacturers to include precision filter baskets. Only one I recall seeing was an IMS Competition basket with a high-end Rocket Espresso machine. Plastic reservoirs are nearly universal. One exception is the external glass reservoir attached to the ECM Puristika: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-puristika-single-boiler-espresso-machine-cream All plastic reservoirs use food safe materials. The blow down valve outlet can spray a bit - be sure it's mounted properly. There is a top and bottom to the tube which mounts in the drip tray grate. Thanks a whole latte for sharing your journey! Marc

[@chavitavb]

I just received my BZ13 today and it's a dream! I find it way BETTER and easier to use than the Rocket Appartamento. In fact, I think my espresso taste even better lol. I vowed to my machine that I will never mistreat it as I did to my Appartamento. How often should I backflush and descale this machine ?

[@digitalrob06]

Another great Marc video - you’re the man dude! This machine is really tempting me to upgrade from single boiler (ECM Casa V, which we love) to a heat exchange machine. Quick question - is this machine only US compatible voltage wise?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey Rob, Thanks for the kind comment! If doing milk drinks on the reg upgrading will change your life. So much faster. Yes, the most current BZ13 to best of my knowledge is available only in North America and compatible with 110v/60hz only. Marc

[@Markymark1408]

Marc - Great video, how would this compare or compete with the Linea Mini?

[@erlynlopez9731]

Keep it up Marc...

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thank you, I will Marc

[@jettav88]

Are you going to sell the new Aria Bezzera? Also if price was equal do you like the Mozzafiato over this for the rotary pump? Thanks!

[@lubenzz]

Hey Marc. When are you going to do a review of the new Profitec Pro 800 2.0

[@j0.ZEF-Who]

MARC - looking good my man - like the smaller logo and lack of branding as much as possible - if ya buy the machine yo typically know whom made it - cheers

[@devotedpickleball]

I’m looking into getting this machine for a coffee trailer since it is NSF rated. How many drinks could I expect to do back to back?

[@sergn717]

Thank you for the review! Not a lot of information on BZ13 out there. No preinfusion on this one? How does this PID actually work since it's an HX machine? Is there a predefined offset basically? Do you need a cooling flush before pulling a shot?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Sergey, No pre-infusion on the machine. Yes there is an offset between actual boiler temp and temp delivered at the group. In general, a cooling flush is not required unless the machine has been sitting on and idle for >20 minutes or so. Marc

[@user-zx1ir7jt4c]

can the colored accent panels and wooden knobs be added later on?

[@dushanK]

Brilliant review as always. Too bad BZ13 is not available here in Australia

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi k, Thanks for the kind comment! Marc

[@Koofteh]

Are you going to stock these on WLL Canada?

[@pavlomuntianu5121]

Hello, thanks a lot for a great overview. I have a question and would love to know your opinion. I have a BZ10 and in the beginning, after reading forums, I downgraded the OPV pressure to 10 bars in the beginning and 9 bars at the end of extraction. At this moment I can pull shots which I consider ok. However I am now considering if I should try to move the pressure settings back to the factory level. Could you please advice what is best? It would be awesome for the Bezzera users if you could make a video about it and what are the pros and cons of having different pressure setup. Thanks in advance!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi PM, You are welcome and thanks for the question. Some users report better results with different pressures. Personally, I'd leave pressure set the way it came from the factory. Reducing pressure also reduces the flow rate of water through the coffee. That might be bad, good or make no difference depending on the coffee used. I firmly believe flow rate is more important to espresso quality than brew pressure. We have this video using a machine with easily adjustable brew pressure which investigates changes based on brew pressure: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4utp3yNjLV_n7c Marc

[@Elfin4]

Very nice

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thanks Marc

[@wb9914]

Great vid as usal. What I wonder, is the color raspberry red of Eureka identical on the Bezzera BZ13?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi W B, It's very close but I cannot say it's identical. Marc

[@TC_Prof]

Bezzera ftw great machine. Duo DE ❤❤❤❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@moradit]

Does Bezzera BZ13 DE come in two versions? One with shot timer and one without? The bottons and PID digits color are different. You have another review video for BZ13 DE in April 2020 which seems it is different with the one you reviewed here.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi m, The BZ13 DE comes in a variety of versions. It's had a number of updates since 2020. Here are our currently available models: www.wholelattelove.com/search?q=bz13%20de Marc

[@FinalRhapsodyMusic]

Very nice review, that totally matches my experience this the previous edition of this PM machine. I have a very hard time steaming 6oz of cold milk on this machine with the two holes. Could you please show me a few photos of the starting position of the pitcher, relative to the steam wand? I cannot for the life of me figure out a correct position to introduce air and then swirl the milk for correct integration for latte art. However, blocking one hole gives me good result, although taking double the time of course.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi D, Thanks for the comment and request. Here's an excellent video with details on wand position and technique. It's not done on this machine but should answer your questions: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aoG2dKasbNCWgaM Marc

[@Schmorgasblab]

Very nice.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thank you! Cheers! Marc

[@stefans8459]

Hi Marc, Really great review and very helpful, though it left me wondering: I would love to have the machine as shown as upgraded BZ13 with Shot TImer. However, I live in Europe where only the Crema is available. Any clue if Bezzera is considering these upgrades or one could import a BZ13 from US (obvious 110 v issue) Thanks a lot Stefan

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey Stefan, Over the last decade more manufacturers are producing specialized product versions for different regions and retailers. Our product experts bring consumer feature requests to manufacturers and work with them to implement. I unfortunately do not know what Bezzera has planned for EU models. Currently we do not ship to EU but if you have a friend in US/Canada...

[@Hello-itsme9]

Hello sir, I wanna ask you a question about the shower screen of my machine, it is loose not tight, is that normal? does it affect the brewing or not? thanks

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi H, Your shower screen should not be loose. Here's our technical video covering the BZ group on you machine. Should help you fix the issue: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bXfcpKqep7p2abc Marc

[@Chris-nj2jz]

Would you pick the BZ13 over the BZ10, if so why? Or money factor aside would you choose a Profitec Pro 300? Normally I make one espresso and one cortado a day. Love your videos, thanks!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi VB, Thanks for the kind comments! We do our best to be as detailed as possible. I do not review Saeco products at this time as I do not have access to them.

[@sactu1]

Thanks once again Mark. After seeing your review of the ECM Synchronika, I went ahead and bought one. Lovely machine, but it has a very annoying habit. During every couple of extractions, the thing goes through abour 5 seconds of boiler refill, which drops the steam pressure from just over 1.5 bar down to barely .5 bar, causing a less than ideal microfoam consistency. Have you had this problem with the Synchronikas you have reviewed? I've asked the ECM rep down here (Australia) what the issue is, but have had no joy at all. Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Tks, Jim.

[@jules5350]

Not Marc, but I would contact customer service

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi OMP, Strange that your service (steam) boiler refills every couple of extractions. First thing I'd check is the fill level probe on the boiler. If not familiar, you can see it at ~15:00 into this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nWSseaZ3lN5kpJo which does a full internal tour of the machine. Any chance you're using water that's too pure? Need some minerals in the water for the probe to work. Marc

[@sactu1]

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc. I'll look into those two areas to see if it will fix the problem. Otherwise, it's another call to customer service. Cheers, Jim.

[@dan_craig]

Hi Marc. I have had my BZ13 DE for almost 2 weeks and still trying to figure out the magic combo of grind size, amount of coffee and hand tamping pressure. In another video you mentioned the BZ13 should be at 9 bar during the shot cycle and no matter what I try I just get either 12 or 6-8 bar. The machine manual recommends 20 grams of espresso and the Whole Latte Love set up video they use 17 grams. Any suggestions? Also my machine won’t hold the shot timer program. I hold the manual button until the light blinks, then I take the 24 second shot with the double button and the next shot seems to always be 12 seconds anyway. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi dc, I wouldn't focus too much on the brew pressure. The machine comes out of the box set to a good max brew pressure. I would focus on basic dialing in process. The amount of coffee dosed is up to you. If you want to go with 20 grams that's fine so long as it's not so much you end up with an impression of the shower screen in your coffee puck after an extraction. 17g is fine as well. Whatever dose weight you decide on stick with that amount as you dial in the grind size. The goal when adjusting grind size is to pull your shot in 20-30 seconds. If you can weigh the output of your extraction while in progress that helps. You're looking to get double the weight of coffee dosed in your cup in that 20-30 range. That's the basic 1:2 espresso ratio. Note that measuring coffee output by volume in milliliters is not accurate. When dialing in, use manual brewing on your machine until you get the ratio and timing down. The progammable button uses a flow meter to measure brew water so if you programmed with the grind a little finer or if the grind changed to coarser or maybe you lowered dose weight in between or there was a channeling of brew water through the puck on the next shot the same amount of water may come faster. Dialing in requires consistency in variables other than the grind size. So, keep dose weight the same as you adjust grind size. Be sure and distribute coffee evenly and use about the same tamp pressure for each shot. Keep in mind grind size is not set and forget! As coffee ages or when you change coffee type or dose weight grind size will need slight to moderate adjustment. My guess is once you get the timing right you'll see between 8 and 10 bar on the machine's pressure gauge. Hope that helps! Marc

[@tariksadic]

Hi marc, what do you think about that using bz 13 de in a small coffee shop? Is that machine able for making 40-50 espresso based drinks per a day? Thank you 😊

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi t, While it's possible that volume is probably more than the machine can handle unless drinks are really spaced out.

[@44Bigs]

Oh man I wonder if I can change upgrade the computer or software in my Mitica PID to include that timer display. Any idea? It seems like both use the same PID part number (7434021 for the 230 volt version). Mine reports version 1.04 on power up.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi 44, There's an additional piece of hardware (box) in the machine which drives the timer - so more complex than software/firmware upgrade. Marc

[@44Bigs]

@@Wholelattelovepage Aww that's too bad, but thanks for your reply! 🙏

[@MarcesAurelius]

very interested in the WLL DE version (upgrading from an Oracle) and also wish to also move Single Dosing - 1. simple on/off switch to use a Smart-plug to program “on time(s)”? 2. have been very interested in the Zerno v2, is that a “good match”? even though not sold (yet?) via WLL

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi MA, Thanks for the interest and questions! 1. Power switch is mechanical so you can use an appropriately rated smart plug for programmable on/off and remote startup. 2. I have not used that grinder so cannot give an opinion. Hope that helps! Marc

[@MarcesAurelius]

@@Wholelattelovepage thank for the rapid and very clear answers do you think WLL might also sell the Zerno? I have enjoyed and value the WLL the videos for many years and would like to buy both an espresso machine and grinder here

[@Wholelattelovepage]

@@MarcesAurelius You are welcome and thanks for your support! It looks like the grinder is direct sale only from the maker and is currently waitlisted. Think it's unlikely we will carry it. Marc

[@w.p.6948]

is it somehow possible to get the new wire drip tray insert in europe?? i have a bz13 (and love it) and i think the new wire drip tray looks much better and more modern than the old one!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey w. p., Unfortunately I do not know about availability in Europe. I do agree it looks better! I'd check with a local dealer. Marc

[@SouthJerseyBrazilianJiuJitsu]

Hello Mark. I recently bought a BZ 13 from whole latte love. I love it. One problem though. I tried to program shots and they are very inconsistent. Sometimes I get 26 grams and sometimes 55 grams. Sometimes it run for 22 seconds and other time 32 seconds. Any advice on how to fix this? I use a constant 18 grams of coffee with a spring loaded tamper so my tamp is also constant. Thank you in advance

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi SJBJJ, Thanks for your patronage and sharing your love of the BZ13! Programmed shot volumes are measured by a flow meter within the machine. It measures in the cold water path prior to the boiler so slight variations in amount delivered to the cup are possible based on variables like coffee dose weight, grind size, etc. But 26 to 55 is a rather large variation. Are you certain you programmed correctly and are using the same button each time? You can test accuracy by weighing the amount of water delivered when pulling a few blank shots - just hot water from the group with no portafilter in place. If they're fairly consistent then issue lies elsewhere with programming mistake or inconsistent variable. I think it's unlikely there's an issue with the flow meter but anything is possible. If you find large inconsistency in blank shots please take a short video showing a few and contact our tech support staff here for assistance: support.wholelattelove.com/hc/en-us Marc

[@SouthJerseyBrazilianJiuJitsu]

@@Wholelattelovepage not sure if my other message went through. I said great advice and that’s why I love whole latte love. I pulled back to back shots as you suggested with no porta filter in it. The dose time was consistent from 13.1 seconds in the first shot to 13.8 seconds in the last shot. The dose in grams was consistent from 96.3 grams on the first to 95.8 on the last. I will try to program again later today. Key notes my coffee is all from the same bag (morphea from whole latte love). My grinder is a consistent 18 grams (eureka Libra from whole latte love) and my tamp is a spring loaded tamper and gravity distribution tool). I not sure what I am doing wrong. Thanks again for your help and advice.

[@giovannibrucher]

Too bad i coudnt wait a few years for the updated version. i love mine the way it is but i missed out on the included botomless porta filter and the new drip tray looks so easy to clean!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi GB, Thanks for sharing your love of the BZ13. Like many successful products the BZ13 has been upgraded over time. I too love the new drip tray design and naked PFs are a lot of fun and great for technique appraisal. Marc

[@Oscar11880]

Have seen the machine so far only with red display. Is the white display with shot timer a special version?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi nsp, The BZ13 we carry with white display and shot timer is a special version only we carry. Marc

[@sdrawkcabvag]

Outside of the obvious difference of HX vs DB, which would you recommend, this or the Silvia pro x? Just for a solo user doing 2 lattes a day. Which has better build quality?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi GM, Thanks for the question. The BZ13 is a step up in build from the Silvia Pro X. Drip tray is a little small on the Pro X but not a big concern if doing 2 lattes/day. Pro X uses 2 vibration pumps. BZ13 uses 1. You will have independent and tighter control of brew and steam temps on the dual boiler. I do like the higher mounting of PID control on the Pro X and ease of use but overall, I prefer the BZ13. Hope that helps! Marc

[@sdrawkcabvag]

@@Wholelattelovepage thank you! it's interesting because everyone says the Silvia's are "tanks" but they say the same things about the Bezzera :).

[@verluc]

Hello and thanks for the video. I am considering the Bezzera brand to replace my current machine (I live in Italy) and noticed the the BZ13 model is no longer manufactured. As I understand the Crema model replaced the BZ13 model, is it correct? And... what about doing a review of this model in the future? Thanks

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi LV, I believe the BZ13 is an exclusive product for us in the North American market and no longer available in EU. Marc

[@verluc]

@@Wholelattelovepage Ah, ok, and do you think the model Bezzera Crema is similar spec wise?

[@rcroofingandcontracting3840]

Need some help. Had my heart set on the ecm synkronika. I only have 16” depth to work with. Looking for a double boiler machine. Any suggestions on a model that will fit my area?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi R&C, The Profitec Pro 300 is a compact dual boiler machine. From back of case to front of front feet is 14" so would fit. From back of case to front of drip tray is 16.5" so a slight overhang of drip tray. It has smaller boilers, is not plumbable and does not have the E61 group. But it does heat up quickly and is a PID machine: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-300-dual-boiler-espresso-machine#product-specs Since you mentioned the Synchronika, guessing you might be interested in a plumbable dual boiler with rotary pump. The Bezzera Matrix MN or Duo MN have a depth of 14" from back of case to front of front feet. The drip tray extends out to 18.75" so you'd have some overhang. Matrix and Duo are identical internally, Difference is the exterior case. Matrix has semi-transparent LED lit side panels while Duo features more traditional stainless case. Here's the Duo with videos available at the link: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bezzera-duo-mn-dual-boiler-espresso-machine Matrix is currently out of stock. Hope that helps! Marc

[@rcroofingandcontracting3840]

@@Wholelattelovepage correct looking to plumb in the system. So you know the measurements for the ecm from back to front feet?

[@jonbishop1131]

Waited MONTHS for the BZ13 and finally settled with the Casa V. BZ13 was in stock about a week later. Go figure. 🙄 Anyways, the Casa V will do for now.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Jon, Bummer, supply chains have been a nightmare! Marc

[@matthew8194]

This might just be an opinion but the wood handles look waaaaay better than the ugly standard bezzera portafilter

[@jeffmezzullo5864]

Can you do a couple back to back lattes on this thing? I usually don't have this need but on occasion when I have a bunch of people over for dinner.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Jeff, Yes you can! Marc

[@jeffmezzullo5864]

@@Wholelattelovepage Can you only get the white side panel with the DE machine?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Jeff, Yes you can - right here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bezzera-bz13-de-bianco-espresso-machine-rosewood Marc

[@rustycolon9368]

Is this machine supposed to be backflushed? And how frequently? I know it came with a backflush disc, but there is nothing in the user manual indicating how or when, or what frequency this should be done. Thanks Marc.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey Rusty, Yes, the machine should be backflushed. Frequency depends on use. Recommend backflushing with a cleaner like Cafiza every 100 - 140 brew cycles. Plain water backflush without Cafiza is recommended every 20-30 brew cycles. But some do the plain water daily, some do weekly and some not at all. Hope that helps! Marc

[@rustycolon9368]

@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you!

[@dukebuck]

A year later, how would you rank this machine in terms of customer service feedback/etc? I'm torn btwn this, the Profitec 300, or the Profitec 400. How would you compare/contrast among that set? Thanks!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Sam, thanks for the question. Feedback has been excellent for the Bezzera machine with 5 out 5 star customer ratings. A bunch of verified owner reviews here at bottom of page: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bezzera-bz13-pm We currently use a BZ13 as our daily driver in the studio. It heats quickly due to the electrically heated group. Compared to competitors the BZ13 is a good value. The Pro 300 is the best value in a dual boiler PID machine. I prefer the lever operated valves of the BZ13 over those on the 300. With a "ring" style group under brew boiler design the 300 heats quickly as well. Both machines are most appropriate for lower volume usage due to smaller boiler volumes. The Pro 400 is the only E61 group machine of the bunch. It can be equipped with flow control on the group which can be useful if you're into specialty grade coffee. While the BZ13 and Pro 300 have degree by degree brew temp control the Pro 400 runs in 2 basic temperature ranges under PID control and a 3rd setting which pops the steam pressure. Here's a link to a side by side spec comparison of the machines with current pricing: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/compare?products=NDQ2Mzk0MjY2NDI0Niw2NjU5MjkxNzA5NDk0LDY4MjY1NDc4NzE3OTg Hope that helps! Marc

[@dukebuck]

@@Wholelattelovepage thx, will check it out

[@MongooseReflexes]

Would there be anyway to buy just the white LED PID display w/timer, to upgrade the red one on my Magica PID?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi M, To the best of my knowledge there is no available individual upgrade. The timer function requires an additional internal component wired into the PID so not an easy swap out even if that component were available.

[@MongooseReflexes]

@@Wholelattelovepage Oh alright, that make sense. Thanks for the reply.

[@user-pr8uy9bw8y]

Hello Mark, Trying to decide on machine from you guys.. i am in Montreal and my first criteria is heating time... sure i would like to have more features like a rotary pump, dual boiler , pre infusion , flow control etc... more is better... it will for home use only .. so i figured out, there would be no real need for a dual boiler and rotary pump. Except may be for the noise.... could you please help on narrowing my final choice ...i have been looking for few weeks .. dozens of models and not enough time to go through everything on the market... thanks a lot. Btw , i was leaning towards the bz13 .. but it has no preinfusion 🤔

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi there, Thanks for your patience in my response. Was offline on vacation. The BZ13 is an excellent choice. It's a good value, solid performer and it does heat up quickly. One of our favorite machines at its price point. If you want to go to a machine with more features and are concerned with heat up times the simple solution is an appliance timer. If preinfusion is important to you you might have a look at the Profitec Pro 400 with flow control. Flow control allows you to do user controllable pre-infusions. The P400 is an E61 PID machine but it runs in temperature ranges rather than having degree by degree control. For many users that's enough and allows you to select a lower brew temp for dark roasts and higher for light roasts. Check out the P400 here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-400-espresso-machine-in-matte-black-with-flow-control-and-blackened-oak Hope that helps! Marc

[@user-pr8uy9bw8y]

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks a lot for your input.

[@JanoyCresva]

THis machine or the ECM Classika with flow control? We're upgrading from our Breville machine. Your site has both in the same ballpark price.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi JC, Classika is a single boiler so there's a wait for steam after making espresso. It may not be the best choice if you do a lot of milk drinks. But, the flow control does open up more extraction techniques with specialty coffees. The BZ13 uses a heat-exchange boiler so steam is always available. It doesn't have the extraction flexibility of the Classika but milk drink work flow is much faster. If you're in US/Canada you can book a free live video demo with a product expert who is very familiar with both machines using our CoffeeCast service: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/coffeecast Hope that helps! Marc

[@markd2942]

Do you guys not sell the Bezzera Crema? I understood the BZ13 was discontinued and replaced by the Crema,but nothing on your website indicates this

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Mark, The BZ13 is very similar to the Crema but with a couple of upgrades we worked with Bezzera to incorporate in the machines as compared to the previous BZ13 like a white PID display and automatic shot time in that display. Marc

[@markd2942]

@@Wholelattelovepage I did t see the Crema on your website. Do you sell it?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

@@markd2942 No we do not. The BZ13 is the crema with added upgrades.

[@JesemanuelRamirez]

Is the Bezzera BZ 13 the same as the Bezzera Crema? Can the OPV be adjusted as well? I had trouble opening the machine, could you post a video on how to open it for service?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi JA, The machines are similar. Here's a video showing how to remove the housing: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZnTJiIR9nr6Eh6M And how to adjust the brew pressure using the OPV: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gmempJ6YeJ2Ura8 Marc

[@JesemanuelRamirez]

@@Wholelattelovepage thank you I’ll take a look at those

[@astronomical13]

Interested in this machine but worried about the long-term quality of the buttons, wish they would have gone with switches instead.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi a, Talked to our machine techs we have not had unusual issues with the buttons. Marc

[@Ultrazilla]

Come to see Mark's beard, stay for the machine.

[@jettav88]

When will you review the Aria? Thanks!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi j, Thanks for the question. I'll review if/when I get one. Marc

[@SouthJerseyBrazilianJiuJitsu]

Hello Mark I will be receiving a new Bezzera BZ13 in a couple of days from Whole Latte Love. It will be paired with a Eureka Libra and Maromas Orpheus beans also purchased from Whole Latte Love. The BZ 13 will be replacing my Breville Barista Pro. In an effort to save on some coffee would you be able to lend me any guidance to grind size when the new machine arrives at least to get me in the ballpark

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi SJBJJ, Congrats on your new machine and grinder - that's a nice pair! Unfortunately I cannot say set the grinder to a "5" for that coffee. Numbers on the grind setting are for reference and do not relate to a particular grind size. That's true with all grinders. Even if the numbers did represent a particular size the grind size you need for best results is particular to your setup and variables like dose weight used for your extraction. You will need to dial in your grind size. Start with a grind size that is somewhere between table salt and granulated sugar. When you pinch the ground coffee it should hold together a bit and you should be able to make out your fingerprint in the pinched coffee. When you see that you're close to the right grind size. Your goal is to have your extraction take 20-30 seconds to produce double the weight of your ground coffee dose. I suggest using a dose of 17 grams of ground coffee so you'd be looking for 34g in your cup in 20-30 seconds. If you do not have a scale capable of weighing your output, The Orphea will produce a liquid volume of 45-55ml in your cup including the crema when weight is about 34g. Try and use the same weight of ground coffee (easy with the Libra) each time you pull a shot, tamp firm and even. If shot is too fast, adjust grind a little smaller. If too slow, adjust grind a little coarser. It will likely take a few extractions to dial in the grind size. If you change variables like coffee dose weight or coffee used then grind size will need some adjustment. Here's a video which demonstrates the process of dialing in grind size: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q5-reYelfM-mnqs Hope that helps! Marc

[@SouthJerseyBrazilianJiuJitsu]

@@Wholelattelovepage thank you so much.

[@SouthJerseyBrazilianJiuJitsu]

@@WholelattelovepageHey Whole Latte Love. I love my new Bezzera BZ13 from you guys. I also got a BWT pitcher but can’t seem to find any good instructions on set up. The back like doesn’t stay on and I am not sure if it’s defective or I am doing something wrong. Can you recommend any videos on set up? I can’t find any. Thank you in arvance

[@rodrigolarrea8273]

one question, this machine can be used in a coffee store? or just only a home use? thanks

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey RL, it’s commercial rated NSF in US so good to go. As mentioned best in lower volume use commercially. Marc

[@rodrigolarrea8273]

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc for answear my cuestion, cheers from Argentina.

[@SonnyMagon]

What is the biggest difference between the bz group head and the e61? Is one known to be better?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi SM, The BZ group has an internal heating element which helps get the group up to temperature faster and helps regulate overall brew temp. That regulation is not necessarily better than what you get from an E61. E61 has very large thermal mass and thermosiphon looping out to the group. Driven by convection, it constantly circulates boiler water to keep the group hot. Depending on the machine, E61 group makes other functions possible like soft pre-infusion, line pressure pre-infusion in some direct plumbed machines and flow control which allows user to modify the brew water flow rate to the coffee. E61 has a port for optional accessories like group head temperature gauge or pressure gauge (common on machines with flow control) which gives a more accurate on coffee brew pressure reading than standard machine gauges. If you like a machine that's ready to brew sooner then BZ group might be better. If you like options available on E61then that might be a better choice. Hope that helps! Marc

[@SonnyMagon]

Great! Thank you kindly!

[@arashmahmoudi8560]

Hello, my friend, İ have b2016 bezzera. İ have a qustion, i would love to know your oponion 🙏🏻 How can i rise the water temperature, now its 82.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi AM, Here's a link to the manual for the machine: cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2222/6103/files/B2016_Manual.pdf

[@1966Lucas]

Marc can you please awnser Is there pre-infusion on this machine?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi PL, No pre-infusion on the BZ13. Marc

[@MrEngineeer]

Is there any way to do pre-infusion with this machine? please help 🙏🏼

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi SB, There's no pre-infusion beyond what you get from the slower pressure build of the machine's vibration pump as compared to a rotary pump machine. Marc

[@MrEngineeer]

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc for responding, btw I love your videos, and I just bought this machine from you guys and that's why I'm asking... I understand it doesn't have a pre-infusion function built in, but I was wondering if there's any way manually do it, like turn the brew on, back off, and then back on again... also maybe you can talk to the Bezzera folks in possibly coming up with a mod/upgrade that can be purchased and added to the machine to achieve this. Or maybe even an optional firmware upgrade :)

[@Wholelattelovepage]

@@MrEngineeer My pleasure and thanks for your patronage plus kind comment on the vids! You may be able to briefly turn the pump on/off, wait a bit and turn back on. Honestly not something I've tried with the BZ13. The risk is the solenoid opens and releases pressure from the puck and disturbs it. I have done the on/off/on with other machines with solenoid valves without that happening. Just don't want pressure to build too much in the initial on/off cycle. So I'd say give it a try. I do talk to Bezzera and my gut says the response will be they have other machines with a pre-infusion feature for those who want it. But, one never knows. Marc

[@MrEngineeer]

@@Wholelattelovepage ok thanks that's super helpful because now I know what to look for when I test it. I'll do the on off, then take out the portafilter and inspect my puck for disturbance. I guess I could use one of those metal screens to avoid the disturbance if it does happen :)

[@seanwolfe9321]

After a month with my BZ13pm, I have a concerning issue. Sometimes the steam is strong and will heat the milk to temp in about 20 seconds and a very powerful vortex. Other times it’s very weak, almost no vortex and will take close to 60 seconds to get to temp. Milk is not expanded at all either. I’m doing nothing differently and find nothing I can do to change it. Steam pressure definitely varies greatly. I sent a tech question in a couple days ago, no reply as of yet…

[@markd2942]

Looking at purchasing this machine. Did you get this issue resolved?

[@seanwolfe9321]

@@markd2942 no….absolutely not.

[@markd2942]

Might need to call the customer service number and see about sending it in for repair

[@seanwolfe9321]

@@markd2942 they don’t have the parts…. Good suggestion though.

[@seanwolfe9321]

@@MyChannel-wg8ml it’s not discontinued, but it doesn’t seem they stock very many proprietary parts. These appear to have to come from Italy. I would love to hear it from WLL, but it doesn’t seem they have commented yet so I take that as they must order them.

[@ariasadhu7648]

Worth BZ13 or arcadia DE PID 1G sir?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi AS, What's your budget? The Arcadia is a commercial multi-group machine. Much different and costs a lot more than the BZ13. Marc

[@mcready]

Is this machine avail in the UK?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Mc R, I do not believe it is. The BZ13 is an exclusive at Whole Latte Love. Marc

[@manxman8008]

Hmm is it MOvember?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Lol!

[@andersbjrnskov8130]

How come is this not available here in Europe? Its an Italian brand and they are made in Italy? That really do not make sense? 🙄 I was actually consider of getting this, instead of my good but old Expobar Office Leva 2 db (Brewtus in the us)....until I found out that you cant get this in Europe??? 🙄😕😢😭

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Anders, The BZ13 is a custom machine made for the North American market with some subtle differences compared to similar models with different names available for other parts of the world. Not unlike what auto manufacturers do with model variations for different markets. Marc

[@gordanbabic8028]

you are not telling the truth when you mention that portafilter is angles for paralel tamping. it is clearly not paralel to the surface

[@anotherguycalledsmith]

New hair style? Great, you make Apple's _Craig Federighi_ envy your success… Just kidding, it looks good ;-)

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey AGCS, Ya, thought I was having a bad hair day! Marc

[@anotherguycalledsmith]

@@Wholelattelovepage Dear Marc, you make my day! See you ;-)

[@rxonmymind8362]

Readithr comments customer service isn't too good on this machine. NOT WLL or Marc I mean Bezerra. They don't answer their customers. Hmm...🤔time to switch gears I guess. More research.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Rx, If you've got questions, we have answers and we provide customer service and support for Bezzera. We have coffee pros on staff to help you out and resources like our Bezzera Support section loaded with videos, manuals, etc by model: support.wholelattelove.com/hc/en-us/categories/4410129035667-Bezzera Marc

[@toddpower4674]

Looks like your wife cut your hair.....lol Sorry man But it's a nice video

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Bad hair day and you should be sorry! Marc

[@niekversteege]

I don't like this. It's going to make me spend money.