REWATCH: Spider-Man 2 (2004) - The Big Thing

[@JHarv_]

3 people having a civil conversation, each have their own (sometimes opposing) opinions, while maintaining respect throughout? Here for it. Always have, always will love Harloff and these shows.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Thank you Jonathan!

[@RyanNilsen]

I’m early in this episode, but I’m here to defend and promote Spider-Man 2. This movie means the world to me, the train sequence is perhaps the best scene in any comic book film, I love the arc, Doc Oc is spectacular, and it’s hilarious

[@coolleyhigh]

The train scene iconic

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Lots of people swear by this one.

[@JeffZ1028]

The end of the train scene is kinda cringeworthy though... but in a hokey, Sam Raimi kinda way.

[@donp380]

Endgame portals scene > Train scene

[@Sco3000]

You really don't think that train scene has been surpassed by now? Give me with that warehouse fight in BvS any day.

[@zegsi364]

This movie shows the duality of having ur life be a mess and having everything going too well in ur life... Notice how Peter's life is a mess cuz of Spidey and how Otto and Harry's life are almost perfect... Harry is succesful, took over Oscorp, Otto was hired to do a once in a lifetime experiment. This movie is about responsability in a more traditional sense(find balance, get a job, make good decisions) rather than the heroic sense(save people cuz u have the power to do so)... But at the same time, Spidey is hated by most people, even aunt May. Its a small detail, but notice how, before singing happy birthday, she sees a newspaper with Spidey in it and she quickly says "get that thing outta here"... She clearly doesnt like Spidey and obviously it affects Peter among a lot of other things. As everyone hates Spidey, Peter loses stability and his powers also are failing him... Its not about portraying hes a loser, its the consequences of not having ur shhh together. And the consequences of being too cocky when ur shhh is TOO together lol... Throughout the film, Peter finds confidence after one key moment, when aunt May reminds him that people still need someone to look up to. This happens after she changes her mind about Spider-man during the bank scene. Its subtle but its there... So after everything in his life goes well and he regains his powers, MJ discovers who he is and she chooses him over her fiance... This movie is a masterpiece.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

I think people throw that word around too easy but I appreciate everyone who loves it!

[@iansmart4158]

Ive never heard anyone say they didn’t 100% love the operating table scene. That may be the most baffling take here! I gasped haha. Edit: to Coy’s point on the octo legs. They go so dark on the table because that’s before Otto has control. He would never kill that way, but while he was unconscious the arms kind of let loose in a major way. His influence tamped down that murderous streak.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Sorry, it drove me nuts!

[@famousthaneus9810]

The legs were controlling Otto from that point forward. They only went that dark on the operating table because the script wanted to reflect the drastic change in who we’d seen Otto to be until that point.

[@iansmart4158]

@@famousthaneus9810 he had influence. Hence the ending. But they were like his bad conscience turned up to eleven. Difficult to resist but still able toz

[@doomraven0]

For reals, that scene is easily my favorite in all the Raimi films, it fits his style so well and has no business being in a generally bright, colorful film which is why it hits so well.

[@codyt821]

Loved the convo guys, another great one. I just want to preface that I completely respect all of your opinions, and love the convos you have one films. However, I just don’t understand most of the takes here. I definitely don’t think it’s the best superhero movie ever or anything, but it’s a damn great comic book film. Raimis cinematography is just incredible, and his style fits comic book aesthetics so well, I don’t get how one of the main takeaways was wanting less personality in the films tone. The Doc Ock operating room scene is one of the coolest and best shot things I’ve ever seen in a superhero movie, the way it shows how ruthless, and dangerous the legs are is fantastic, and it’s just a lot of fun to watch. The score is one of the best to ever be put to film, the action is fast, well choreographed, and full of some great set pieces. I love Raimi as a director, and I have found some people have a hard time following his style, so maybe that’s part of the problem. I just don’t get these takes, I really don’t hahaha. Really fun to listen to though, and I respect it.

[@masamune2984]

“Tony Stark, without the money” is an incredible description of Doc Ock

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Truth

[@noeau4469]

I love these rewatches, they’re great. But, yes, please please please do Batman rewatches. Maybe not the animated ones the Koy and Winston were talking about, but definitely the 7 solo Batman movies

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Thank you and we will!

[@jesserodgers5625]

@@TheKristianHarloff (Shia-style): DO IT! 🤗

[@AJDaniels99]

I go back and forth between this and Spider Verse for my favorite Spiderman movie.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Fair

[@samrehl4660]

Great episode Kristian. The best part about this show is it’s a conversation and It feels like we are having it with you.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

I love that! Thank you!

[@doomraven0]

By the way, mad respect for bringing up Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind so much on the channel. Far and away my favorite film of all time and yet it feels like no one even knows it.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Easily in my top 10 if not top 5 movies all time.

[@isaacbrisson7059]

Please keep this series going and continue to do rewatches of other series

[@TheKristianHarloff]

We will, Star Wars happening on Sith at moment. We will do this one and then we will do Matrix.

[@jermainehaslam5634]

I think Spiderman 2 has a great story, the way it focuses on Peter's struggle to be both Peter and Spiderman was masterfully done and the whole dynamic between Harry and Peter in this movie was brilliant but great video Kristian!

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Thank you Jermaine! Happy everyone is finding these!

[@jesserodgers5625]

I've always NEVER understood the sentiment of this film being better than the first film. Thank you, Kristian, for existing! ☺

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Ha, well thank you for watching!

[@markm1261]

Great episode and I enjoy how the three of you see the same scene and see if differently

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Thank you!

[@NisGaarde]

Alfred Molina is so great in everything he's in

[@TheKristianHarloff]

He really is.

[@kallewardracing]

I'm in the group that loved your first rewatch discussion as well as this one, but I could also listen to you three read the phone book for an hour and be entertained. Whatever content you'd like to make, I'm here for it

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Thank you so much!

[@CinematicGalaxy]

Nostalgia plays a part in terms of my fondness, sure...but there are plenty of things I loved as a kid that I don't enjoy now, so it's definitely not what colors my take on the film. I still legitimately love Spider-Man 2, honestly a lot more than either of the Holland movies without question, and more than most superhero films made today, including a lot of the MCU. I like the way Peter is written, even if he's made extra dopey, he's easy to sympathize with and even empathize with, for anyone who has ever felt like too much is going on and once and they're crumbling under responsibilities. It's got a tight story, the action is even better, Molina's performance is wonderful, and Harry Osborn had some great development following the end of the first film. I honestly think the main weak link here is Mary Jane and how she's written in general. My favorite thing about this film is the follow-up to Peter's guilt over Uncle Ben's death, along with the entire plot of "Spider-Man No More." The emotional pathos there is right out of the original Stan Lee/John Romita, Sr. issues (which Raimi is a self-professed fan of). It's definitely melodramatic, but I just find it really works. And the action sequences...there's still nothing better than the Train Sequence in any comic book film to date. Nothing. What I also love about the movie is how sure it is of what it wants to be, and that it still feels so stand-alone despite being a sequel. I enjoy the cheesiness here because it *just* rides a fine line (unlike the 3rd where it was way overboard). I don't understand the criticism that the Raimi films are cheesy, yet the Mysterio villain monologue in Far From Home gets a pass. All that said...I enjoyed listening to this discussion! I'm not watching this because I want you guys to agree with me, I'm watching because I like hearing you talk about these movies! :-)

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Thanks for commenting! Homecoming dropping tomorrow!!

[@CinematicGalaxy]

@@TheKristianHarloff Looking forward to it! I'll still take Raimi's first two films over Homecoming, but Homecoming is definitely my favorite Spidey film of the MCU. Loved Keaton as Vulture.

[@WedgeOfSpite]

So refreshing to hear people who don't worship this film. As someone who has zero nostalgia for it (never saw it in the theatre, and only saw it like 5 years ago), I'm not some huge fan of the Spider-Man character, so for me it did not age well. And I respect it for what it did, but as an actual film, I don't enjoy watching this movie. It's not a terrible film, but it's not a terribly good film, either. My flabber is always ghasted by people who think this film is not only good, but GREAT, and not only GREAT, but the best Spider-Man film and/or CBM --ever. I don't think it's even as good as Batman Begins, which as you guys point out, is a year later. Though like you guys, I do respect Raimi's films for what they did for CBM as a whole. I found it interesting that you guys seem to think that the MJ characterization improved, because I thought it was much worse, and the relationship between MJ/Peter became just painful in this film. Though yes, as you say, it's inexplicable that she's attracted to the sad sack Peter Parker in this film. And she's SO wishy-washy, and of course, the damsel in distress...again. So many repeated beats, and not in interesting character growth ways, but in lazy ways.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Yeah just thought this was good not great.

[@RyanNilsen]

All that being said, completely respect Kristian’s opinion

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Same here my friend.

[@BJgrand]

I really hate when people dismiss other's enjoyment of something as simply being nostalgia based. Of course that plays a role in some things but there are many rational breakdowns as to why people talk this movie up. At the time of its release in 2004, critics were hailing it as the greatest sequel since Superman 2. Like, this isn't something people are now saying because they saw it when they were 12. I love this channel but this one part of the rewatch series just irks me lol.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Hey fair enough, I think nostalgia plays a part but I don't think it is a full reason of enjoyment for the films. I was pretty clear this is a good movie. Just think it is overrated on where it stands with lots of people.

[@CinematicGalaxy]

Yeah, I feel "It's nostalgia" is a strawman argument. I love this re-watch series, but that's not a valid reason as to why so many people still love this film. I mean, it can be a component, but it's not *the* reason.

[@Knight622ny]

4:20 yeah this movie gives Parker No Mercy!

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Ya

[@russellgiacontiere4999]

Kristian made me question if Uncle Ben’s killer was in this movie but Michael Papajohn was Uncle Ben’s killer and the chainsaw Doctor was Tim Storms but they do look similar. Thank y’all for doing these videos they are the best!

[@mprescott33]

When Harry tells Ock to ask Peter where Spider-Man is and Ock decides to throw a car at Peter. That’s so stupid and isn’t talked about enough I’m so glad you brought this up. Unless Ock knew he was Spider-Man already he’s dead. After he dodges a car Ock is like find Spider-Man for me and throws Peter into a brick wall hard. 🙄

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Yup

[@nectarinedreams7208]

If that significantly hinders anybody's enjoyment of the film, that's just weird.

[@illthoro1634]

I honestly don't know how anyone, except young kids who just want higher quality action scenes could put ANY MCU Spiderman movie over Spider-Man 2. I mean, we're a trilogy deep in the MCU movies and Spider-Man is just now gearing up to show us he can be Spiderman, with his own conflicts and personal dilemmas. Instead of ones handed to him by Tony Stark. We never see this Peter really struggle in his own world before becoming an Avenger straight away. We're a trilogy deep in MCU Spiderman and the characters around Tom Hollands Spiderman still haven't been built and fleshed out, outside of being Peter's friends. What do we know about MCU MJ? What do we know about Ned? What do we know about aunt may? They're all cardboard characters who aren't nearly as fleshed out as Kristen And Francos characters. Respect the opinions, but these were rough takes, lol.

[@tornadochaser2457]

Coy is mistaken. There are three very common misconceptions regarding comic book movies, which constantly come up - 1) Due to Tobey hurting his back while filming, the "I'm back!... My back!" scene is inspired by that. It isn't, it was already in the script. What is interesting and true about this situation though, is that Jake Gyllenhaul was set to replace Tobey if Tobey didn't recover, and Jake goes on to play Mysterio in Spider-Man: Far From Home. 2) Only New Goblin and Sandman were going to be in Spider-Man 3. Not true - The Vulture was going to be there too, an evil cellmate of Flint Marko's that escapes with him, and influences him to commit crimes and do bad things. Ben Kingsley was planned to play him. Spider-Man 3 was always set to have three villains. 3) Heath Ledger's response to the hospital bomb not going off on-schedule was improvised. It wasn't, it was in the script.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Our Batman rewatches of Nolan coming up soon!!

[@Spideymrw]

I hear you guys but some of the complaints are a little nitpicky. Complaining about how he is carried on the train after saving their lives is a bit much lol. That entire scene is so heartfelt.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Hey totally fair.

[@ntsofficiaI]

Amazing Spider-Man 1 is a good movie, and underrated in my opinion. I also enjoy it more than I do Spider-Man 2 as well.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

I am looking forward to the revisit.

[@melodiccanvas]

The original Raimi movies are so much superior than the MCU spider-man films. the 2 MCU spider-man movies are just so lifeless to me

[@TheKristianHarloff]

People love it.

[@caigecrampshee3709]

Nonono last weeks Spiderman podcast was fantastic. Very entertaining and really kept me company on the road. Keep it up. Love this series :)

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Thank you!

[@chrish5136]

Mask of the Phantasm might be my favourite Batman movie ever, so good.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

You know I have never seen?

[@chrish5136]

@@TheKristianHarloff I'm a child of The Animated Series so it may be nostalgia but it's what I think of first when I think Batman.

[@CinematicGalaxy]

@@chrish5136 Mask of the Phantasm is DEFINITELY my favorite Batman movie, bar none. Matt Reeves' The Batman has a shot at approacing it for me, though.

[@tashrif46]

6:59 but thats a big part of the reason it works. You see both the Tom Holland movies and the villains almost seem like an afterthought in the story. And the over-reliance that Spiderman has on Stark tech on that movie makes me wonder if he has any tech savvyness at all

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Hey fair enough!

[@tremontidood]

I respect your opinions…but It has nothing to do with “Nostalgia Eyes.” Greatness is timeless. Spider-Man 2 is a masterpiece and is one of the greatest comic books movies of all time. The great Alvin Sargent’s writing is top notch; one of the best screenplays in the genre. Nothing has topped the Train fight in my opinion. The entire movie is well balanced with the Sam Raimi’s style, drama, and comedy. There’s no other superhero movie where you feel the conflict of being a superhero better than this one. It’s super relatable, which is what makes Spider-Man a great character.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Hey totally respect that opinion. Thanks for sharing!

[@donp380]

Masterpiece? Relax.. it's a good movie but it's not even a top 10 superhero film.

[@alexlazzerly3677]

@@donp380 All opinions.

[@CinematicGalaxy]

@@donp380 I'll still take it over any of the MCU.

[@davidgeldner2167]

I completely agree with you Kristian .

[@Makzimillian]

Nolan's Batman trilogy rewatch would be marvellous! Batman Begins truly raised the bar and established the gold standard when it comes comic book movies and comparative realism in the genre! Also the epilogue tease with the Joker's calling card...could have have inspired Feige/Favreau to start the, now, signature post-credits scene in the MCU

[@TheKristianHarloff]

We will be watching them as we get close to March for sure!

[@SuperYoda2005]

How about an Indiana Jones rewatch for next year? (Yes including Kingdom of the Crystal Skull) 😂

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Leading into the new movie, definitely.

[@tashrif46]

4:36 when the life gets messy, thats how you feel. You feel unworthy. And it was perfect because those were the direct consequences of being Spider-Man.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Good point

[@jordanthefanboy4368]

I love this movie so much, I get the complaints, but there’s something so pure about these movies that just puts them over the top for me

[@TheKristianHarloff]

I can't argue with it.

[@nnpietro]

I’m curious if you guys have any thoughts on Danny Elfmans score and themes from Raimi’s Spider-Man. Revisiting these do bring some cheese and laughs but it feels like the scoring serves this Spider-Man well. These days the scoring process is so much more expedited and cookie-cutter. Regardless if you think a good score should be noticed or it feels like it’s definitely a component not to be understated. Even Joker has some forgettable themes or motifs but at least I walked a way with a world-feel aided by the visuals, the story, AND the music.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

LOVED the score!

[@Madferit91]

Wow I know everyone is entitled to have their own opinions and all should be respectable... but when Winston says "this is worst than most movies in the mcu" I just can't take you seriously. I legit laughed out loud when he said that. Terrible taste is an understatement if he actually thinks that.

[@jarednavarrete1740]

(Baby Crying Noise)

[@JohnDean16]

55:38 that laugh. Love it 😂

[@TheKristianHarloff]

:)

[@ShaneStLaurent]

I really like Spiderman 2, but never saw it as one of the greats. I was always more of a fan of Spideys first outing

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Same page.

[@artygreen4810]

Just rewatched Spider-Man 2 and.... Yeah it's still pretty great. The things that hold up are the emotional engagement, the great filmmaking and the score. Sure it has things that don't hold up, but how many classic movies don't? Let's not act like your beloved OG Star Wars movies don't have some things that don't hold up. Like in Empire, the way Solo aggressively comes on to Leia was considered romantic back then, but today it could be considered creepy or toxic.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Hey who knows!

[@CinematicGalaxy]

The OG Star Wars movies have some really cheesy dialogue as well.

[@doomraven0]

Modern political correctness is not a good lens to view anything from the past through. What Han Solo did in Star Wars with Leia has been called wooing and romancing for all of human history. He didn't rape her, for crying out loud. It is romantic, not toxic.

[@doomraven0]

Cheesy...from the ancient Greek for flawless😀

[@artygreen4810]

@@doomraven0 Never said he raped her. I'm saying the way he comes at her CAN be seen as toxic behavior by today's standards. I was proving my point to Kristian that even things in his beloved franchise may not hold up well since he loves to point that out in other franchises.

[@munsung07]

I like how Winston gets thrown under the table when uses the F word over Chucky but Kristian full on dropped like 3 of them when he was busy updating the English language with "lis". I love the energy and dynamic of these rewatches. It's been said but bears repeating, it's just like having a bunch of friends talk about movies. Very old school schmoes. Keep it up.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Thank you! Yes this is why I have been saying that this is my favorite show I have ever done. It is relaxed, no pressure and pure conversation.

[@EpicDubTime23]

I disagree with Kristian but I do love seeing 3 guys just talking and debating like civilized people. Quality content like this is severely missing these days. Good job to y'all 👌

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Thank you! Disagree as far as? I think the movie is very good just think it is extremely overrated.

[@EpicDubTime23]

@@TheKristianHarloff I mostly disagree on Raimi's more "cornier" style and Toby as Peter/Spidey. I think it gives the movie it's charm and flavor. Also think there's a pretty good overall balance between humour and darker themes. Spider-Verse is a damn close second but Spider-Man 2 is my favorite so far. I'll agree with you that it's not the best comic book movie ever, not even my Top 3.

[@Kenji-fm8kf]

These videos are so entertaining 👌🏾 keep em coming

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Thank you! Will do!

[@urbanexcursion]

Wow, you were right about this film being overrated. It wasn't as good as I remembered, but it was still a lot of fun.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Totally fun movie for sure.

[@johnnguyen3748]

Love the thumbnail! Love this movie, used to download the hd trailer with dial up internet and watched it over and over

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Haha nice!

[@Spideymrw]

This movie is so good. It has so much heart and Doc Ock was the perfect Villian for Spidey.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Great villain.

[@markibash2689]

The significance of this movie is that it deals with Peter’s philosophy. For the most part, Peter is just a vigilante who is morally unorganized. With this fact in mind, we can clearly see how inconsistent of a hero Spider Man really is; he doesn’t follow a certain schedule making him wildly unpredictable, and he is not trained with how to deal with complicated situations. This movie dug deep into spider mans roots as Peter not only remembers why he’s spider man, but also why he will FOREVER be spider man. In short, Peter develops from a confused but instinctive vigilante, to a morally incorruptible and durable hero.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Totally.

[@jarednavarrete1740]

I wish Campea and Stuckmann were on this show, cause I know those guys haven't seen Spider-Man 2 since '04

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Interesting!

[@julieneveraert9474]

I'm not a fan of the whole "it's a nostalgia thing" as if that's the only reason why so many people love this :/ it's a weak argument with no room for discussion. Respect your opinion though. For me the best movie with superheroes is the dark knight, but the best superhero movie is this one

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Yeah I think it is more than just nostalgia.

[@nectarinedreams7208]

The AFI didn't have any nostalgia for it when they put it in the top ten films of 2004, so why do people assume nostalgia plays a big part, or any part, in why the general public still love this film? It's just a very good film on most levels.

[@Spideymrw]

On the brief Batman rewatch discussion I do think you should. I know you mentioned the animated ones. Only do the theatrical releases. The flash movies are going to tie in both Michael Keaton(Val Kilmer/George Clooney) and Ben Affleck’s Batmen so I think it merits a rewatch series

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Good points!

[@jacobfleck9116]

Totally agree with Christian. This isn’t even my favorite Raimi Spider-Man movie

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Thank you Jacob!

[@Jeremy32Miller]

My only real issue is the whole subplot with Mary Jane and Jameson’s son otherwise I love this movie I really feel like the nostalgic argument is poor just because of how beloved the movie is

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Hey fair enough!

[@Reefism]

Emily Deschanel was the secretary who received the pizza!

[@TheKristianHarloff]

She was!

[@doomraven0]

I was in a weird place when Spider-man 2 came out. I had just gotten to my tech school after Air Force basic training and so it was the first film i saw on my own after having my entire life regulated for months. It blew my mind at the time but in retrospect that was because Doc Ock is probably my favorite Spidey villain and Molina is perfection. Every scene with Peter and MJ, together or apart is horribly cringe and i just don't have any desire to root for them. Their relationship is awful. Actually, i wanted him and the nice Ukranian girl to get together, better fit and she knows how to bake. Peter spends 10% of the movie as Spider-man and 90% being a whiny loser asking "who am i?". The action is still decent, even if it makes no sense (why is a bank filled with pirate treasure? Might as well have been a bunch of bags with dollar signs on the side). The subway scene is still fun...up until Tobey empties his bowels all over the front of the train while everyone watches. I do LOVE the scene in the operating room and the tone of the ending that felt so true to the comics. Still more enjoyable than not but i am with Kristian on this, i prefer Spidey 1 to this. But what do i know? Until NWH, my favorite Spider-man movie was TASM. I clearly have horrible taste. P.S. My gutter mind still makes me laugh like crazy at MJ's line, "You can't get off if you don't get on." Uncle Ben level wisdom right there.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Great points

[@rasalpaul4574]

Spider-Man 2 is by far one of the best Comic Book Movies ever. Great video.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Thank you!

[@archaicrule432]

It's so nice to finally hear I'm not the only one who thinks this one is so damn overrated. First one is the best one by far. I always thought part 2 was kinda boring. I watched the first one recently with my 4 and 3 year old boys and they love it and it still holds up. I finally put on Part 2 and they loat interest quick 🤷 I thought the first one, amazing spider man 2 and homecoming are the best one's

[@TheKristianHarloff]

It is a good one just not as good IMO that everyone gives it credit for!

[@markibash2689]

As much as people like to refer to tobey’s peter is a complete loser, I’d like to add that he’s also portrayed as a reserved individual in general. This Peter needs credit because he can be aggressive when he believes he should. There is a reason this Peter is handling his life better than Tom/ Andrews Peter ever did.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Hey agree to disagree but I get it!

[@christianrapper]

Whar? Garfield’s peter basically had his life together.

[@markibash2689]

@@christianrapper uncle Ben, his parents, Harry, gwen, captain Stacy. To be specific, how things ended. Andrews spider man never really had things end well for him. Some of it out of his control for sure, but he still made some bad decisions he couldn’t recover from. At the very least tobey was able to end on good terms with the likes of Harry, sandman, and doc ock.

[@markibash2689]

@@christianrapper actually, if the rumors are correct, Andrews Peter is going to be in the messiest phase out of all of the spider men whereas Tobey’s Peter is presumably living a healthy life with MJ and his daughter after “retiring”, thus, concluding his legacy.

[@deanlewis6109]

Definitely not the Spider-Man 2 retrospective I was expecting but still a great conversation. I thought they took the two different tones and melded them really well much like the MCU has done in the years since. But then I really like The Amazing Spider-Man 2 so what the fuck do I know?

[@julieneveraert9474]

I'm also a big fan of TASM 2

[@TheKristianHarloff]

I am looking forward to watching that one again.

[@deanlewis6109]

@@TheKristianHarloff it's the most Spider-Man-y movie of all and the suit is killer. Garfield is the GOAT Parker and Spidey in my opinion. I might even re watch it for your re watch.

[@doomraven0]

You are not the only one. I would rather watch TASM 2 any day over the Raimi films. By far, the best Spider-man live action suit, Garfield and Stone's magical chemistry, AG's great New Yorker, sarcastic Spidey, the beautifully done loss of Gwen, and that fantastic final scene. There's a lot more to like than dislike. TASM2, however, is still proof that Sony learned absolutely nothing from messing with Raimi's Spider-man 3. Sony and DC both are trying to capture that MCU box office without doing the leg work.

[@andrewcook3983]

I hope you reassemble this crew Kristian, to also cover Morbius and Doctor Strange 2 as they look like they all tie in to tell a bigger story.. Much like a Marvel Comics event works, eg Civil War, where you don't have to read everything, but you get a bigger picture if you do. And from the sounds of it Venom 2 fits in, but it doesn't open in my country, New Zealand, until November 25. This might be why there hasn't been a second Spider-Man: No Way Home trailer yet... We can't be the only territory where it hasn't opened.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Yes, will def get Winston and Coy on more to talk about this stuff!

[@thenatural1sttrpg]

I think the secret identity will work in the Batman because of Pattinson's posture as Bruce Wayne. The lanky almost sickly posture is very nonthreatening compared to his stature as The Batman. They look like two different people unlike the recent Batman/Bruce portrayals where they were all the same muscular build like in the comics and animated films. There's more disbelief I think in Pattinson's version.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

So curious to see that trailer tomorrow!!

[@tashrif46]

6:36 I mean let's be honest if we are going to criticise the first two Raimi movies for having the same kind of plot, then we should have the same kind of criticism for the first 2 MCU Spiderman movies where the villains were directly impacted by Tony Stark's decisions and Peter has to stop them. What none of the MCU movies has though, is the heart of Spider-Man 2. There are consequences for everything Peter does. That's why that scene when Aunt May tells Peter that there is a hero in all of us is such a powerful moment. Because that brings back his focus into being responsible rather than giving in to his desires.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Hey to each his own!

[@jimw966]

I’ve been enjoying these rewatch reviews on the podcast, but did want to throw in a comment to say thanks for these 😊 Have a great day.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Thank you! You too!

[@StargazingGarou]

You know what sucks? Listening to the podcast version while you're at work, then completely forgetting what you wanted to say by the time you can get to KZbin to comment.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Write it down! :)

[@StargazingGarou]

​@@TheKristianHarloff I would, but I really don't get the time to write much past making notes on testing orders at the lab. Usually, if it's really that important, I'll find a way to remember. (i.e. my fruit ordering by color comment from Goofball Ep3.)

[@iansmart4158]

Great Ep. Great convo. But man, these takes. Whew! Shout out to y’all for being so brave. And also, Spider-Man 2 is a masterpiece and the best comic book movie ever. But love hearing the differing opinions. (And Kristian, the tone is perfecto. You gotta get on its wavelength!) EDIT: sorry I’ll stop typing haha but it’s really surprising to me that the overriding take is “why did you do so much, can’t you just take all the personality out of your movie?” Very surprising that you guys just wanted a more conventional movie. The weird quirks is what sets it apart (and make ppl love this flick). Without that it’s as boring as anything else. I want Raimi to be Raimi! Just like I’d want Taika to be Taika (aka Thor: Ragnorak)!

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Hey I get all of this and am very aware that we are in the minority.

[@BenRnrA]

Great convo guys. I feel the same way about Spiderman 2. It's a great movie BUT Homecoming is in my Opinion THE Spider-Man movie. I love the Holland Peter Parker and Spidey. I think I actually prefer Spiderman 1 over 2 IMO. Cant wait to hear your thoughts on Spiderman 3.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Coming up next week!

[@emilnikolov_96]

The Raimi movies meant the world to me growing up , seeing Spider Man 2 in theatres was amazing. Rewatching the films I completely agree with everything you said. Raimis does nail a bunch of things like New York and JJJ but Nolan and the MCU completely changed the game and comicbook films have long evolved past Raimi's trilogy. Since 2004 I've read so many Spidey comics and watched every animated series out there and Tobey just doesn't do it for me. Coy puts it perfectly "He's big bang theory" very curious to see how he plays it in No Way Home . Oh and please do more rewatches with Coy and Winston , those two are always fantastic

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Thank you and we will!

[@drizzymoose3480]

Spiderman 2 (2004)is a masterpiece. period. Respect the opinions tho🤙🏾

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Totally respect that take as well!

[@Talented34tv]

Man, this was hard to listen to. Spider-Man 2 is still my favorite super hero film to this day and it's always interesting to hear opposite takes

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Yeah we knew not everyone was gonna be on same page on this one.

[@omarmir8426]

Hey Kristian, just getting started on this episode but I'm sure I'll love it. Pretty sure you've addressed this but if you haven't, are you going to make the occasional appearance on SEN live? Don't think you've been there since the migration to Twitch. BTW I'm loving the show way more, was already used to Twitch and I love how I can have the show on picture-in-picture mode on my phone and multitask compared to KZbin where P-I-P is not a feature unless you pay extra. Sorry if you've already addressed this, I've been out of the loop for a few weeks due to travel and sickness.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

All good! Yes I will host the first hour next Thurs!

[@omarmir8426]

@@TheKristianHarloff awesome!

[@ZachBobBob]

Yeah this movie is far from perfect but Winston saying The Amazing Spider-Man is better is sacrilege haha. Also that manscaped transition was masterful

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Ha well thank you!

[@Jimmie_Rudolfsson]

Of course Parker is a duche. He was a duche in the Stan Lee/Jack Kirby comics as well in the 60s. No surprises there.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Fair

[@alexpolk9325]

Totally agree with your take that this is a good movie, but overrated. Certainly not the best superhero movie ever made.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Yeah nostalgia adds to it but there is nothing wrong with that! By the way, if you haven't had a chance to check out Friday Night Titans, please do, love to hear your thoughts! kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJPWineqqbaarJI

[@DGenerationMC]

I remember HATING Spider-Man 2 for years because I first saw it in theaters as a kid and didn't get it. Just wasn't anywhere near as fun as the first one for me. Watched it back a few years ago as an adult that understood the themes it was trying to convey and I've grown to love it while co-signing the opinion SM2 is a top-tier Spidey film. Buuuuuuuuut, I'd still take ITSV over it as the absolute best by a decent margin.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

It is a take we share!

[@WickedArt5]

Yeah I definitely think the first one is better but I was a much bigger fan of Andrew Garfield spiderman movies. Nice to know I'm not alone on watching this one but I do love Molina's performance as doc oc

[@TheKristianHarloff]

I am a bit shocked that way more people are on our side of the fence that this movie is overrated but it certainly has the people who LOVE it!

[@WickedArt5]

Yes that is very true

[@philrm99]

Love these Spidey discussions.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Thank you!

[@DBuckyBoy]

If you do a Batman rewatch, should you add Batman vs Superman and Justice League?

[@TheKristianHarloff]

I am not sure yet.

[@hito157]

Ok I hear you guys, not the greatest superhero movie but definitely an important film for the genre. I enjoy Raimi's B movie style, its unique and works when used with restraint...there was no restraint! LoL

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Oh def important for the genre!

[@jp-0047]

Hi guys Is this movie a top ten Superhero movie, no no it isnt. Is Alfred Molina's performance in this movie as Doc Octopus one of the ten best performances by an actor in any Superhero/Comic Book movie? Yes - Yes it is, and it's not debatable

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Same page

[@tashrif46]

29:45 no it doesn't. In Guardians 2, I nearly walked out of the theatre with the number of cringe worthy jokes the characters were making.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

It was rough

[@tashrif46]

@@TheKristianHarloff and some of it were unnecessary as well. And in other times, it would take you out of a serious moment that the characters were having

[@mildmanneredcomicnerd8849]

Great episode as always ☺️☺️☺️

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Thanks again!

[@timmoth444]

EVERYONE! Comment like and repeat see you next time! Also subscribe on the podcast feeds!

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Thank you!

[@RyanNilsen]

both hollllland movies better??? First TASM bettter?????????!

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Facts

[@Spideymrw]

We get hit with the “Nostalgia eyes” when we love this movie and the Sam Raimi universe but I would dare say there is some recent bias with the Tom Holland films.

[@CinematicGalaxy]

@@Spideymrw You could make the case of "newness bias" with the Holland movies. Not for Kristian or these guys, but just for some of the arguments I've seen in other circles. Ultimately though, I think both criticisms are too dismissive of people's actual positives of these films.

[@apologeticcanadian542]

I agree with your take on how overrated it is and that the first is better.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Thanks!

[@neilvarma]

All time classic

[@TheKristianHarloff]

People certainly put it in there for sure!

[@adrianopasseri3262]

I love this film my second favorite Spiderman film in to the spider-Verse being my favorite one! Thom Holland and Andrew Garfield I think are the best Spiderman with a nod to Tobey Maguire. But Tobey Maguire I think is the best Peter Parker then Thom Holland defiantly second Andrew Garfield's Peter Parker was to cool and Skateboardie witch I'm sue wasn't his fault but the Script

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Fair

[@yoshimitsu5537]

I don't disagree with anything you guys are saying, but almost none of it diminishes my enjoyment of the movie. The only issue I ever had was something you all mentioned; Why the hell would MJ want to be with Peter in this? Spiderman, sure, but Peter?!

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Yeah exactly!

[@coolleyhigh]

There was a Chucky doll called My Buddy.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Well ti wasn't officially Chucky but yes. I know the song well.

[@TheMasonAguilar]

i miss collider heroes so much. get amy on here too :/

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Amy rules!

[@Jimmie_Rudolfsson]

I honestly don't get all the unabashed love for Shazam. It was quite good overall but the villains were in my opinion not interesting and the final fight was another DC orgy in bad cgi. Hope the second one is better.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

We shall see!

[@alonzoxi]

Best Spider-Man movie by far!

[@TheKristianHarloff]

You are certainly not alone in your opinion!

[@carlplumb1022]

Spider-Man 2 is the best one to date by far

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Interesting, thank you for the take!

[@sachaallari592]

BEST SPIDER-MAN MOVIE EVER MADE PERIOD!

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Lots of people feel that way.

[@ValdezN83]

It's pretty good movie ,and at the time it was my favorite, but now tom Holland Spidey is the best IMO

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Agreed

[@stan4242]

At the time, I enjoyed Spiderman 1 and 2, but I think the Tom Holland movies are the superior Spidermans.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Agreed

[@aoe41015]

Coy don’t worry about playing devils advocate for SM3. Nobody is expecting any good points from that movie review. It doesn’t need nor deserve any praise.

[@TheKristianHarloff]

You know, I know a lot of us on that page but there is a pocket of peeps who really enjoy it but I am with you!

[@ReviewKingMB]

Dang, I know everyone has their own opinions but the negativity Kristian was giving this movie hurt my insides lol

[@TheKristianHarloff]

See that's what I made clear, there isn't negativity and said the movie was good. Was more with the fact that I think it is overrated.

[@ReviewKingMB]

@@TheKristianHarloff You're right, maybe I was being hyperbolic with the word negative. I'm in the camp of loving this film but I definitely understand your points

[@gpauldejesus]

Hmm gonna be a hard video to get thru without having someone in the crew who loves the movie lol

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Yeah sorry!

[@dpaulk0308]

No dislike from me haha. I get all the points y’all are making. But to me this movie was seminal in my childhood in defining what it meant to be a hero and the sacrifices it requires. But respected yalls take and loved the episode!!

[@TheKristianHarloff]

Totally! Thank you!