Robert Crews: Afghanistan, Taliban, Bin Laden, and War in the Middle East | Lex Fridman Podcast

Robert Crews is a historian at Stanford, specializing in Afghanistan, Russia, Islam, Central Asia, and South Asia. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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EPISODE LINKS:
Robert's Twitter: / robertcrews22
Robert's Stanford page: profiles.stanford.edu/robert-...
Afghan Modern (book): amzn.to/3nYL5rX
PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: lexfridman.com/podcast
Apple Podcasts: apple.co/2lwqZIr
Spotify: spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
RSS: lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/
Full episodes playlist: • Lex Fridman Podcast
Clips playlist: • Lex Fridman Podcast Clips
OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
0:19 - U.S. invasion of Afghanistan
15:08 - September 11
32:43 - Bin Laden
1:08:12 - Withdrawal of U.S. troops
2:00:24 - War
2:11:39 - Leadership
2:27:49 - Afghan people
2:37:18 - Rumi
SOCIAL:
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[@lexfridman]

Here are the timestamps. Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast. 0:00 - Introduction & sponsor mentions: - MUD\WTR: mudwtr.com/lex and use code LEX to get 5% off - Ten Thousand: www.tenthousand.cc/ and use code LEX to get 15% off - Four Sigmatic: foursigmatic.com/lex and use code LexPod to get up to 60% off - Magic Spoon: magicspoon.com/lex and use code LEX to get $5 off - Onnit: lexfridman.com/onnit to get up to 10% off 0:19 - U.S. invasion of Afghanistan 15:08 - September 11 32:43 - Bin Laden 1:08:12 - Withdrawal of U.S. troops 2:00:24 - War 2:11:39 - Leadership 2:27:49 - Afghan people 2:37:18 - Rumi

[@tansky7511]

Now get Daniel Spielman on!

[@jackyoung4575]

When you said ' the correct response to 9/11 should have been a display of force like nothing the world had ever seen. ' i was thinking employ "speak softly but carry a big stick", so kill no body, but detonate like 6 nukes in the middle of the ocean and just record the video, haha

[@francescos7361]

Love Rumi .Thanks Lex stay beast

[@BaronVonTacocat]

You should get Ryan Dawson on; he is an expert on 911, Epstein, and the Civil War.

[@AllUserNamesTaken111]

I am sorry, Lex, but you really interviewed the wrong person here.

[@faryadkarimi1798]

As an afghan refugee , I can say that majority of this conversation is true and made me cry for many things said in this podcast. Thanks for keeping people educated about the history of this land .

[@bergssprangare]

Why are no afghani willing to fight for his country.. Now Pakistanis and Iranians owns them

[@underbelly69]

try fighting guerilla warfare against desperate individuals who hide and wait.... and attack when you least expect it - then hide again - amongst your relatives, friends and neighbors - how can you retaliate? how can you defend a position that is only attacked when your focus and guard are compromised.. it's easier to attack asymmetrically - than to defend all positions at all times

[@alibarache9179]

Faryad Karimi , you're absolutely right . I live in France , am morrocan but not refugee . Education is so important for all human race ! 🙏 (Ali)

[@bananarobotoverlord]

@@bergssprangare They don't fight like Americans fight. War to them is about taking territory and converting people to their side. They don't want to kill each other. War is more of a game to them.

[@paulrastrelli]

❤️FromLosAngeles 🙌🏾✨

[@imrankhaliqi4238]

As an Afghan Australian I found this to be such a beautiful conversation. One love. One humanity.

[@noisemagician]

Hello Afghan brother, I am just starting the full episode after watching a few clips.

[@perception_twin]

Hey fellow Aussie!

[@imrankhaliqi4238]

@@perception_twin G’day haha!

[@evamurray2564]

Hi from another Aussie.

[@paulrastrelli]

❤️FromLosAngeles 🙌🏾✨

[@masaa7170]

Wow, as an Afghan, have to thank you Lex (and Mr. Crews) for your diverse podcast guests and especially this episode, as there aren't too many people on media projecting or putting out a real positive picture from my beautiful country and the people. Our people want just what all people want from life, to be able to live peacefully with their families, study, work and provide for their family, community and country. We are proud of our country, culture and people, but it's a shame that firstly evil, corrupt and greedy (Afghan) politicians and world superpowers are playing with the people and country making it unfortunately to become a playing field of war... In terms of Afghanistan I would like to suggest to you another great man who is really educated on Afghanistan, who I think you would really enjoy as a guest, is Professor Thomas Barfield. Again, great diverse podcast with great guests, so looking forward to future episodes. Spasiba!

[@paulrastrelli]

❤️FromLosAngeles 🙌🏾✨

[@subtlefingercamel]

You can have the same guest on Lex's podcast and someone elses, and it's worlds apart. Lex's guests speak waaaay more and waaaay deeper about subjects. Wow.

[@RealLodoss]

As a Pashtun, I believe Robert summarizes the Pashtun very well in relation to the Taliban. Not all Pashtun believe in the Taliban ideologies. The complexities in regards to the Pashtun culture are countless which will require a podcast segment on it own.

[@bibiayube677]

Unlike religion i treat them all equally with scorn and disdain any country that is govern by a religious mad men can never prosper

[@paulrastrelli]

❤️FromLosAngeles 🙌🏾✨

[@aqe7914]

@@bibiayube677 Would you say China’s re-edication camps for muslims are justified then?

[@hamdanaziz1809]

Stop lying 🤥 😒 🙄 😤 😑 🤧

[@sparkleybitz]

@Jabran Khan, Gday mate the Aussies who were in Afgan always spoke highly of the Pashtun. God bless mate.

[@bethmckee476]

"The heart spans out on every side, as wide as the heart is wide." Thank you so much for embodying this, Lex.

[@jdlane5136]

I am getting addicted to Lex's podcasts. I thoroughly enjoy everyone of them.

[@mtbjason4]

I remember so vividly the narrative of "They hate us because our freedom" and whatnot. How many lives could have been saved if this conversation was possible in 2001.

[@RushRULES4EVER2112]

You said so much bud!!!!

[@juneack5848]

As a Persian American, thanks for the love Lex - great guest

[@lt.pepeflyermitchell104]

This guy talks in 3 round bursts lol

[@robv.1503]

Exactly what I was thinking haha. It's like dude let's put it on full-auto here!

[@2FastNSX]

Lol yea. Hes probably nervuos which is okay! Good topic

[@lt.pepeflyermitchell104]

@@2FastNSX nothing wrong with it at all, but doesn’t stop it from being kind of funny lol

[@2FastNSX]

@@lt.pepeflyermitchell104 yea definetaly. After i read your comment thats all i pictured when he spoke😂i would shit myself sitting talking with someone knowing it will be seen/heard by millions

[@ChairPacer]

Hahha he’s verbally rubberbanding 😂 his brain is thinking the words too fast, he has to wait for his mouth to catch up

[@justin8865]

As a veteran myself who's really really frustrated with our fellow Americans lack of knowledge or even empathy for Afghanistan. Thank you for bringing on a real expert on Afghanistan.

[@thegoatmen7736]

If Lex spoke as fast as Robert this would be a 30-minute podcast

[@JT-do8dr]

I normally play these at 1.5 speed, but not this one!

[@american_cosmic]

Didn't seem like was talking that fast... just packing in a lot of info.

[@thisway6539]

its sped up

[@alessandrolentini7603]

Slowed, it does sound more comprehansible though... XD

[@user-vv2pf1sy4m]

@@american_cosmic your ears are strange

[@Ottee2]

Interesting content, but the halting manner in which your guest spoke was annoying. Sorry.

[@anthonymunmor6252]

I know right

[@RandomNooby]

He seems to not fill the gaps with the usual erm and err...

[@johnb6034]

I can't believe these are free. Tremendous content again and again. Great work Lex.

[@coltoncheek7384]

Why would he charge for a conversation?

[@stanh24]

Gotta admit this guy’s staccato speech is hard to follow.

[@NA-lp2re]

I agree, however the content makes it worth the effort.

[@Eldorado1239]

I kinda feel he's just extra-extra-careful with his words. If that's the case, I fully understand. Topics like this, especially this soon... one wrong word and say goodbye to your social accounts and any public emails. If you are lucky the triggered person wasn't dedicated enough to find your family in person.

[@RandomNooby]

He seems to not fill the gaps with the usual erm and err...

[@FlagshipHistory]

As a Muslim American, I really respect how Robert highlights the experiences Muslims went through.

[@sophon238]

It's only through honest and open communication that we can reconcile the atrocities of the past and present and rid the world of the greedy vultures that profit off war and plunder

[@stephenlight647]

George Bush the Younger will be judged as the worst President in the post World War 2 era. And Afghanistan was not the major error. Iraq was far worse. It was, in my judgement not a mistake to invade Afghanistan, it was a mistake to stay. Also trusting the Pakistanis 😂-always a huge error.

[@ZZFilm]

@@Desi365 I’d have to agree with both of you. Bush’s great fall is the completely wrongful invasion of Iraq, and Obama is just about his whole entire international policy. Lots of dropped balls and whiffed swings. Pretty dumbfounding.

[@Jose-oq6kj]

Your podcast has truly ascended in the last year or so. Wow. Every episode is so deep and fruitful. Thank you.

[@thorschou9429]

Lex is a sobering presence in the Podcast-space

[@willloman812]

*sobering-up during a podcast in space

[@drummonkey9291]

@@willloman812 😂 that was some funny shit.

[@whispro4646]

I haven’t watched a lex podcast in a couple of months, but I’m glad to hear his voice again.

[@georgeb2590]

Lex sets the standard for thoughtful interviews and educating us on WTF is going on.

[@Fritzli26]

I have to put it on 0.75 when Robert talks, and on 1.25 when Lex talks xD

[@thisway6539]

this episode is editted heavily. play it at .75

[@oceantree5000]

I especially love the history/ current affairs guests, Kotkin, et alii. Спасибо большое, Лекс!

[@timw4432]

Stumbled upon this from autoplay. Phenomenal. Really interesting content lex

[@IdealSkeptic]

As a Pakistani and locating right at the border with Afghanistan also the religion,race,and other dimensions,the podcast is really optimistic and fascinating 😍

[@Mujarahdeen]

Lmao you’re more Indian lol. just cause your a neighbor doesn’t mean your like us we are so different lmao

[@giovannigarcia6786]

Robert seems so knowledgeable, and I’m fascinated. But 20 minutes in and I’m tapping out because my brain can’t process the speaking cadence for the whole conversation.

[@1986phippsy]

This is fascinating stuff! A great listen. Thanks guys.

[@jakestyles002]

This was an incredibly riveting conversation. Your questions were elegant and insightful and his responses were comprehensive and emotional. I learned alot listening to this and all of your conversations. Thank you.

[@fuadamirguliyev3756]

Hi Lex, thank you for the podcasts, they are truly useful. You know whom to invite. If you can invite Peter Joseph (author of Zeitgeist film series) it would be interesting to watch. Thank you for trying to make the world better!

[@animalsarkar401]

Hey Lex, love your podcast! Request to have Douglas Hofstadter as a guest, he's a crucial voice in the AI community who was at the origin of it all, from whom we don't get to hear much anymore!

[@michaelmccay123]

He did over 3 hours with Sam and Annka Harris not too long ago. I'm at the point in Beginning of Infinity by David Deutsch where he recalls a funny story about DH and his grad students. If you haven't read it I highly recommend it!

[@Galvaxatron]

I'm glad I got around to finally viewing this episode. Fascinating stuff.

[@michaellacy8510]

Why invade Afganistan and not Saudi Arabia and Pakistan? Well, Saudi has oil and Pakistan has nukes.

[@stephenlight647]

Correct.

[@patrickcassity4235]

I just started, this guys cadence is wild

[@Dom-os8vt]

Will there be video play on Spotify? I love your podcast Im selfishly gladly you started one 💪🏽

[@Dom-os8vt]

@Lex▫️Fridman• please don’t disrespect lex with this fake shit

[@jtfuller9462]

Was not sure if I would be able to sit through this podcast b/c the main theme of conversation but once the session started and seen Robert Crews wearing the UNC badge I knew it was going to be good. Great insight into the history and motivation behind the constant conflict and turmoil that's plagued that part of the world. Awesome convo Lex. Final note....GO HEELS! #GDTBH

[@topg-8]

Lex Friedman, i have a hugh fan and i have watched almost all your podcast since 2 years, a what great man and humble soul. Your are more than welcome to Afghanistan, you will see hospitality and humanely connection that almost rare. Hugh respect and love your work.❤

[@blevens7251]

Lex I'm truly astounded by the conversations you're having and how you interact with your guests. Bravo.

[@ynwicks7142]

Fantastic once again. The best way to listen to Dr. Crews is at 0.8x with the silences edited out.

[@ObieR]

As an Afghan American who was born here and raised in the East Bay area the gentleman refers to I found this conversation to be so illuminating and fascinating he’s pretty much right on the money about everything he said including Biden‘s extremely weak leader ship and puzzling decision making when it comes to Afghanistan instead of doing the work during the final stretch and making the hard decisions he let 20 years of sacrifice just slip away and now millions of innocent people are going to sadly pay for it. Just a horrific lack of empathy on Joe Biden’s part

[@markb8468]

Absolutely right.... And that is from the man who ran his campaign based on "empathy". I'm certainly not a Trump supporter but Biden is weak and senile. The afghan people will b the ones who pay for that. This interview was very enlightening and shoes how there is so much subtle nuance to EVERYTHING. There is never any black or white... Only shades of grey and those shades are only a result of which perspective u happen to be looking at them.

[@paulrastrelli]

❤️FromLosAngeles 🙌🏾✨

[@Ulyssestnt]

I joined the military in no small part because I wanted to help your country..one of my deployments was in a Provincial Reconstruction Team..I feel like we betrayed you.

[@zodiacmanan]

Excellent discussion - Robert wove a very wide web of stories and how they are interconnected.....

[@BradleyG01]

Most of the time, i cant just sit down and watch/listen to a podcast. I have to be doing something else while listening to it. but not this one. I'm gonna sit through and watch this entire thing with my full attention

[@richardpowell4281]

I agree 100% with Lex, we need like a Netflix for articles. Where you can pay like $10 a month or $15 and get like all the major publications in one place. I hate every newspaper outlet trying to get me to sign up for $5 a month. I don't have that kinda money

[@johnisblessed4782]

Ground News.

[@b_o_o_g_i_e__]

Paywall for science too

[@inthesunbythebeach]

@@b_o_o_g_i_e__ Aaron Schwartz

[@readingcsp]

Thanks for your work Lex!

[@CaramelSauce24]

Listening on Spotify and I just had to check the KZbin comments to confirm that this guest is a fast-rapper who knows history. I thought I was just tired but now I can listen in peace knowing that if I missed something, so did the lot of you.

[@michaelwelch2219]

As a OIF/OEF vet, and generally interested in cultures, thank you so much for this!

[@paulrastrelli]

Thanks for your service! ❤️FromLosAngeles 🙌🏾✨

[@michaelwelch2219]

@@paulrastrelli thank you sir

[@NsShadid]

Thank you so much Robert. This is wonderful.

[@mashtea818]

Thank you Lex this has a heart felt convo. Also very educational

[@danielcook4176]

Robert speaks at 1.5 speed already, so I can't speed listen to the podcast lol

[@dgenr8s]

It’s beyond annoying, distracts from the message and content, unbearable to listen in its entirety

[@thisway6539]

its sped up .75 is correct

[@justg2310]

please... more people like this!!! thank you

[@moneygame3348]

Lex gonna mess around and be the most distinguish man of my life time

[@avokado9444]

Thank you Lex for this podcast. Utmost importance that specifically YOU made this podcast. I shall always support your work for the advancement of humanity.

[@Wintrrsxo]

U gotta love the comment section on lexs videos

[@mahajafferany1737]

Amazing podcast! You have a new fan

[@aintveld5010]

Very interesting guest, looks trough another perspective(honest one). I like that!

[@runabath]

This should be on the news

[@RushRULES4EVER2112]

Lex, this guest was right on 🎯!!!

[@nikhilsahay895]

That pronunciation conversation was so revealing. Lex correctly pointed out lot of people pretend to care for whats happening in Afghanistan and yet do not care to even spend time to pronounce it right.

[@gregwong2132]

The war in Afghanistan was NOT a mistake. It was great business for the American war machine

[@hbjeff36]

Bingo. It wasn’t a failure. It worked exactly as designed

[@Jose-oq6kj]

I really enjoyed this rap flow style lecture xD (I'm joking around because my friends say I speak the same way and i'm happy to hear someone else who seemingly buffers while talking :D) In seriousness this topic is fascinating and I'm for sure going to sample Robert around 1:00:00 during the chin conversation, I think I woke up my flatmates laughing xD

[@nappygamer4950]

irelia main?

[@Jose-oq6kj]

@@nappygamer4950 in season 4-7 yea

[@cyclotrojan]

BRO WHAT ARE YOU ON HOW CAN YOU UPLOAD SEVERAL PODCASTS A WEEK OMG THIS GUY IS A PRODUCTIVITY GOD

[@tonytheagent]

Great podcast, what Mr Crews speaks about is on point. Being an American I am always perplexed that most people that I speak with on the subject of Afghanistan are not aware of these truths and facts. I am well aware of this information as I listen to more independent news sources . I think most Americans dont take the time to really research the information that is spoon fed to them through the Major News networks in this country. well done !

[@islomsobirov]

Lex, come to Uzbekistan/Tashkent. I will show you around, you are gonna be our guest.

[@elcringedad]

amazing conversation with Mr Crews, you really nailed it so well with nuance and much needed context and honesty. about the "survey" : its time to ask better questions (THANK YOU LEX)

[@Bazza1569]

Brilliant interview

[@ChrisGBaker]

Exceptional window on a reality we rarely see.

[@5AXISDLOCKHART]

It should have been over at Tora Bora Dec 2001 . Why the politicians decided to let Bin Laden escape is the question.

[@Ms123kill]

It gave them something to justify the invasion I think

[@szymborska]

Taliban offered to Bin Laden him up to end the war before it started. US wasn't interested.

[@K4ReeL187]

Taliban offer to hand over OBL in Feb 27 2001; kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKeYcn6ta8yqjsk

[@tony16991]

It's not that they let him escape as much as Bin Laden holding leverage over ISI. Al Qaeda and Taliban are different groups but the members are interchanging according to who holds more weight. To make it simple, ISI created Taliban, Al Qaeda taught Taliban IED mechanism, Al Qaeda killed Ahmad Massoud (Taliban's opposition in Afghanistan). Connect the dots.

[@tony16991]

Also you have to remember, America didn't kill Laden in another Nuclear country in the silence of the night, as much as ISI trading him for favours. Bin Laden was considered a dead weight at that time. It wasn't a win over terrorism but a political win for Obama. It was symbolic at best.

[@Greg-rj1jw]

Videos like this are why the internet is worth it.

[@Channel.SiaSia]

so much fawkin respect for both parties in this convo.

[@barbells_and_guitars]

This was fascinating.

[@richardgraham1167]

Interesting talk, but I have to use the closed captioning to understand what the guest is saying. A large part of communication is not just firing off words, but to speak in such a way as to be clearly understood.

[@tmyoshimura621]

omg my jaw dropped at the quote at the end.

[@ericbook2234]

Best podcast hosted by a robot

[@shivermetimbers4102]

Tomo mogato Mr Lexboto, tomo.

[@MegaClogger]

My God, this is such an amazing conversation. Thank you for letting us be flies on your wall, Lex.

[@AJ3000_]

Lex is the best thing to happen to podcasts since apple

[@drsmith3411]

For historical continuity I think your podcasts need dates of publication.

[@lashropa]

Thank you.

[@rj7777]

Thank you for many insights and thoughts. Robert always sounds 1.25 ;)

[@jesbenjamin3451]

Great podcast Lex.

[@ConservativeVoicesUniversity]

I would like to see Dr. Bill Warner on here with you Lex, he is a lecturer on Political Islam.

[@wahnasurf]

This episode has been out for several weeks now so not many viewing the comments section anymore but here is an interesting documentary to checkout. it has two parts... Afghanistan: The Great Game - A Personal View by Rory Stewart

[@kaylinpillay2313]

I want a setting were lex is 2x speed and the guest is 1.5 speed

[@thisway6539]

its sped up

[@BlakeAndrewz]

This guy speaks like that car Infront of you constantly pressing break going down a hill

[@khadim4allah]

I was planning to visit Afghanistan to see a local friend who did work to promote peace and co-gender education using parkour lessons. When the Taliban was closing in I had to cancel my plans because I feared his roll would cause me danger if they did close in. And well they did, he’s safe now, I always knew that the Taliban would know the word of Allah and would not harm him, but I was so afraid with American media. I pray for peace to someday be achieved and the world to be full of happiness and love.

[@danielm3711]

"Stan" is a Persian suffix which is the shortened vetsion of the word "Ostan". "Ostan" literally means "State" in Persian. So Afghanistan means "state of Afghans". Ostan and state sound the same because both Persian and English are Indo-european languages.

[@fredriks5090]

"Stand" is also derived from the same root, meaning "an established position". Standard and State is essentially the same word with differing flavors.

[@danielm3711]

The Persian word for Stand is "Istadan" which comes from the word "Ist". "Ist" , "Stop", and "Stand" they all have the same root.

[@theharrycoxpun8868]

"there's more to a man than his chin" he says with his chin held high and proudly! lol

[@yousafe007]

As an Afghan refugee living in Germany (and also a CS student hehe) and watching your videos all these years, this one really surprised me. Thank you so much Lex for this!!

[@paulrastrelli]

Welcome to The Hall of Fame Lex🙌🏾❤️✨ -THIS was a GREAT Conversation imo. SomeOne Wise Speaking + Intuitive Questions of Clarity + BONUS I Learned Something! = DopeShit KeepGrowingForward my Friend🙌🏾 #HF/CONTENT-Podcast #LexFridman

[@doobieblaze1628]

I'd love to hear what Dick Cheney has to say about all of this when he agrees to appear in public. His thoughts on Halliburton, Building 7, the "Weapons of Mass Destruction", (2) 20 year wars, and the abolishment of our personal privacy.

[@aduncaroo]

Lol he will never agree to an interview without knowing every question first

[@ZZFilm]

Hopefully Errol Morris can get him into a chair, staring down the barrel of the interrortron.

[@Channel.SiaSia]

@11:48: About the linguistic pluralism - The Afghani remark is quite interesting, as the "i" (ē) is thrown in to group/categorize, in a sense. There are many Afghans residing in Iran, currently, are all referred to as Afghani. I wonder if the offensive aspect exists within that particular culture. Any Persians out here that wanna correct me? lol

[@BasedHadrian]

Amazing podcast

[@FineFlu]

Lex brings the human experience to your home

[@tedwards000]

It is hard for Robert Crew to give easy answers to questions because the subject requires nuance and background.

[@princeofpersia222]

one thing I have to say about afghanistan/khurasan, there are many different ethnic groups living there, majority are persians/tajiks then afghan/pashtuns and uzbak and hazara but we can't call all of them afghan , Rumi was tajik so he's always been persian and iranian/khurasani . Thanks lex for this great interview.

[@TheKhan247]

Technically, Khurasan was an Arab/Abbasid province. This land of Aryans has been known by many names before the Arab rule and after that. On what basis are you calling yourself a prince - do you have authentic records of your lineage to the ancient forefathers? Afghan is a title, not a tribal name.

[@TheJGW]

Hey Lex, I’m sure you won’t see this but if you do could you get Mike Glover on the podcast to talk military Afghanistan experience. And if you could do some sort of podcast collab with Mike Ritland about his new book “Unf*ck Anerica” that would be epic too. Thanks for the content have a great Christmas and new year. Cheers

[@justinakers3196]

Cheers

[@nozzybazz]

I love Robert Crews. His books are excellent. But please take a speech class. So many details are lost because the cadence of your speech is off the dial.

[@Ulyssestnt]

I will never forget the visceral feeling of shock on 9/11,the feeling of being jerked out of the 90s post cold war neo liberal safe malaise into a world where stuff of nightmares suddenly became reality,it stil feels like yesterday to me.

[@senankhawaja4789]

Makes me proud to go to Stanford!

[@Anubis-hm7ro]

Thank you

[@khalidr3150]

@lex. You guys missed one very important aspect of pashtoon called " Pahtoon Wali". Pashto is a language as well as some basic code of conduct which superceed all the common norms, traditions and in many cases the religion.