Robert Greene and Ryan Holiday on the Keys to Power and Strategy

[@danhanks2936]

I had cancer, every month i would get chemo and a week latter i would get sick. I started to anticipate getting sick, i fought this by reminding my self to not anticipate and enjoy the good days.

[@bobbellendovich6825]

Background music is VERY distracting

[@kellieauxier5337]

Failure is information that you can count on. A gift to the right mind.

[@GameScenes4K]

I have found my life purpose after years of deep thinking and trying many things, I have a big relief but now I have a new burden upon my shoulders, since I am working hard towards it, there are times when I feel lazy or simply don't feel like doing anything because I am tired, it's like finding my purpose took me so much time and energy that now that I found it I don't have that much energy to work towards it. xD But this is just a passing feeling, it comes and goes, what I am learning is that discipline is stronger than motivation, I must build discipline or else I fail, simple as that and yet I know this in theory but in practice I am still lazy and unmotivated, (I don't enjoy the ambient and friends that surround me). I feel alone, this feeling gives you pain in the chest. I don't even know who is going to read this, I just had some things to get out of my head and I did, so thank you stranger for reading my comment. :)

[@saconner6299]

Same here! I feel like I could've written this myself. You are not alone in feeling this way!❤️

[@johnrodriguez2438]

Congratulations on getting clarity after some time of deep thinking and trying things out. If I can comment. It almost seems that if you don't do those things you know you are supposed to do then the result me be loss of self confidence. Also, visualizing us losing to the challenge or where we'll end up if we don't do those things increases productivity x 10. Just thought I'd share. Best of luck. You got this!

[@shaman7950]

This is the natural ebb and flow of life. The awareness of these thoughts is enlightenment and it is ok. Stay the course and know that your thinking is creating the reality.

[@camerondye6108]

Just remember progress isn’t linear. Keep growing. There will be better and worse days, but keep your inner eye on that vision and (what’s more important) on the values that inform and motivate that vision. Every moment is ripe with ethical potential. Never forget that. Try to live up to your ideals every day. You will often fail, but you’ll get far further in the long run than if you hadn’t. You’ll likely never hit your ideal, but you will always be striving and stretching toward the good. That is the path of a good life.

[@brandonb.6799]

I just stumbled upon this video feeling extremely melancholic and your comment accurately described how i was feeling at the moment. Almost like i needed to read this and it came at the right time. You may be by yourself but you're not alone. Keep your eyes on the goal and try to enjoy the climb as much as possible, 'cuz believe it or not, once you reach your goal you realize that the climb was the fun part. I wish you the best of luck and i'm rooting for you!

[@sambarryofficial]

My mind is BLOWN!!! This conversation has blown my mind. This video needs millions of views. Change the KZbin thumbnail on this! The topics spoken between you an Robert are incredible. I'm awestruck.

[@DiegoB0525]

At 49:00 I can wholeheartedly agree with him. I also had a stroke and had to learn everything all over again. Honestly in the end, it has made me a better person. More humble and patient, amongst other things.

[@TheTexasTakebyMissVikie]

You can Not say that Marcus Aurelius Antoninus Never had these thoughts of giving up, never despaired, never became bitter, never abandoned, most likely During his struggles he thought about it all, but made the Conscious CHOICE to keep going and push through... It's a choice To Just Get up out of Bed and try AGAIN to make This Day Better. I know my life has been a Struggle since I can remember which was age 3 ~ I am now 55 Life is still a Struggle But I make a conscious EFFORT to keep going despite adversity in Hopes that This will be the day that things ARE BETTER... TODAY I WILL IMPROVE WHAT I CAN AND ENJOY WHAT EVER LITTLE THINGS I CAN WHILE I AM STILL HERE TO ENJOY THEM... AND ATTEMPT TO MAKE A POSITIVE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD ALONG THE WAY... BUT TRUST ME I HAVE HAD ALL THOSE NEVERS CROSS MY MIND AND I AM THE ONE THAT HAS TO CHOOSE TO BRUSH THOSE THOUGHTS AWAY & CONTINUE MY DAY... WITH LOVE MISS VIKIE HOWELL💘 🕊💖🕊🙏🕊💖🕊🙏🕊💖🕊🙏🕊

[@TravelBits222]

I cannot get enough of listening to these two smart, profound thinkers. So refreshing to hear their knowledge and wisdom.

[@garristotle]

I see points where it looks like they might disagree and admire how they seem to consider and reflect on the other view and civilly reframe their point of view. We need more people who can model this in our community and public forums. The alternative is downgraded arguing or closing down to one-way commentary, something we have more than enough examples of.

[@eskpetri]

Knowledge yes but when it comes to covid I can't see no wisdom - only fear.

[@jenniferbate9682]

@@eskpetri maybe soon, new light will be shining on the cause of covid.

[@jameskiologwe]

0😊

[@TrietLyCuocSongGSH]

I also have the same opinion as yours. He is so wonderful, isn't he?

[@Henry_Sakayian]

A student and a teacher sitting together. You know how Ryan Holiday is discipline when im every interview he mentions Robert Greene. I really admire both gentlemen🌏

[@alexandraacreator-art]

great interview! wish the music wasn't there, hard to listen to unfortunately.

[@Fatima_316]

Always a pleasure listening to you two talk. Every time, in every conversation between you two, i learn so much; different things every time. Please keep recording these conversations and uploading them

[@TrietLyCuocSongGSH]

I also have the same opinion as yours. He is so wonderful, isn't he?

[@MyOwnBluetorch]

I've not heard Robert laugh so much during an interview, so great to see

[@bdesh1234]

my passion is listening to this channel on repeat and I never quiet apply most of them. This, i believe, this is the pinnacle of procrastination.

[@Wardamn]

I really love your work and the teachings you spread. I do believe that you're wrong about courage not being courageous because it's something that you personally don't agree with. Courage is to stand up against a large group of people who disagree with you. It doesn't matter what your opinion is on vaccines. It 100% takes courage to do what that teacher did.

[@totadol]

I love these two .. grateful to have the chance to see them together stimulating intellectual insights

[@ellengarcia4041]

These TWO are having a great RUMBLE! They are great to listen to nattering away while each pulling people of significance out of the air while blending each others narratives. Two intellectuals who are both on the same page and are able to discuss and inspire each other. No constant questioning. Just flowing along. And most importantly taking time to sit and observe a spider web.❤ Lovely.

[@Harmoneyy222]

Thank you Mr Greene 🌹 Extremely Grateful for all of your work and compassion

[@MarianneHMiettinen]

"[alive time] is making everything your own." That resonated with me.

[@rudibotha3947]

Honestly I have been sleeping on your podcasts for way too long, it's just such a good listen. Beautiful work guys ☀️

[@vernefits1953]

Pure alive time. Beautiful

[@onlyentertainmentandfun]

Always love listening to you both. I've learned a lot from 48 laws of power, thanks Robert Greene

[@TrietLyCuocSongGSH]

I also have the same opinion as yours. He is so wonderful, isn't he?

[@JaredJacobsonLaw]

Had this experience w every law school exam. Didn’t even study night before bc i knew i did what was required to give me best opportunity to succeed. Thx for reminding me 💯💯💯

[@KimikoMaui]

I find amazing in sublime daily. I'm grateful for most of my challenges

[@jaemeymatherly7598]

I didn't know Robert had a stroke. I appreciate your editing of this great conversation with a ledgend.🙌

[@nanaasodjoa1765]

Goldmine of Material’s ( Dr Greene and Ryan ,they’re the modern Philosophers in our time. Both insightful information’s is deep profound , timeless and Priceless. Thank you both for yours ‘ Superb and Noble works’ . Stay golden stay blessed and all listening. ✌️❤️🙏⭐️

[@lindabuitendag8414]

You have a right an obligation to defend yourself. Self-assertiveness: Consider and respect the rights and opinions of others while also standing up for your rights, needs and personal boundaries in a reasonable, confident, direct and CALM manner. Awesome Podcast

[@StefaniAndino-e8k]

I cannot get enough of these two. And when they are together, it's the greatest. Please come to Chicago!

[@ClaringtonMusic]

I say this with great respect and appreciation: I have always thought of you (daily stoic) as a pretty zen and brilliant individual. Watching this video it has shown me how there are levels to this game, the calm and thoughtfulness of Robert Greene is next level. Brilliant conversation and it really help to put into a spectrum the levels to this game! Best and thank you! 😊🎉

[@Andy-B1984]

Am made up entirely of flaws, stitched together with good intentions. Am a constant work in progress. I will never be a saint or sage, who is lol. Stoism helps me alot, its about being the best versions of ourselves! Most will never reach real saint/sagehood if there is even such a thing. Keep the chin up and keep on trudging. Our greatest glory in life is not in never failing but in rising every time we fall 💪😎

[@adamberry7330]

I saw Ryan on Joe Rogan, I bought Meditations on Audible and working my way through it will need a few listens no doubt. I've come to his chanel to get a jist of what Ryans about and I really find a strong affinity with his principles and those of the stoics. I've been on a path of growth for a few years now and i'm going to spend some decent time focussing on these people. Thanks Ryan and now you introduce me to Robert who is another man I find to have a great mentality, i'm keen to keep learning from you both. Thanks.

[@quantumfizzics9265]

no problem

[@kchingk]

my 2 favourite authors alive today. but i guess... if you put your life into work, and if your work is words, and if words echos into eternity, then one would never die. ;) # Robert Green and Ryan Holiday is eternal!! lol

[@kabel7985]

Passions are self-possessing, true love is love without expectations.

[@kabel7985]

…allowing one to be genuine without judgement, but having boundaries for self

[@jjut6182]

People should be ready for tragedy. A month ago my 18 year old little brother took his own life, we were home, some of us asleep already, he just walked outside and he was gone. God met him in our driveway and took him home. He knew a lot about this world when he was here, now he knows and see’s it all, I’m confident he will continue to be of help to me.

[@CC-qg6zl]

You are handling it with grace. You are doing this such a wise way, love to you, wise strong soul.

[@mv3845]

Great conversation, but the background music is very distracting! 😢

[@riffraffrichard]

I don't feel listening to music is dead time, life is so subjective. When I listen to music it has a meditative quality it gives me a reflective space and I often have insights, it helps me make decisions.

[@zincminus3793]

Bang on

[@emma9sachi]

Thank you! Currently reading The Daily Stoic and it is exactly what I need right now. Same thing for The 21 laws of human nature which I will need to read a second time because it is so dense. Thank you Ryan and Robert. ❤ Montreal, Canada.

[@brandonweemhoff9242]

Robert is clearly the master.

[@robertonallin6736]

I've been waiting for this for a long time. Thanks Ryan and Robert!

[@MrBirgerB]

Ryan released podcasts with Robert in November, January and April. You didn't have to wait so long😁

[@robo3456]

on video is slight better. You have to watch & listen@@MrBirgerB

[@kellieauxier5337]

Wisdom comes from the time and luxury of observation. It's all right in front of us.

[@AnneGarza-z7h]

thank you for sharing your energy and wisdom with the world. thank you for sharing your energy and wisdom with the world.

[@haliteabudureyimu638]

Hi Ryan, thanks for your amazing interview. I personally feel like that it will be better if you can turn off the background music.

[@aaronwimberleymbamsf5776]

Great meditation to start the day=] I have all of Robert Greene's book. Agree that asymmetry of information, ethics, and control can be powerful. I met Robert Greene's son about 8 years ago at a Real Estate networking event in "the big apple" and he was touting the strategical genius of his father. Skeptic at first as everyone is when someone tout's the genius of a family member, but after going deep into all of his books like, "The Daily Laws, The 48 Laws of Power, The Laws of Hunan Nature, The Daily Laws, War, and The Art of Sed." I will say that his works all sharpen the strategic mindset of those who study him. I find one thing that I extract from stoicism on a daily basis is the need to re-create ones ethos, mythos, pathos, and logos on a daily basis.

[@117Industries]

This guy’s good.

[@del-marmare1646]

I am so happy I watched this. Many thanks for the post.

[@sandrafrederick4923]

Thank you for this. I recently interacted (I cannot call it a discussion) with someone who teaches at Harvard. His method consists of coming at you with bits of information, along with pre-conceived notions about his audience and a chip on his shoulder. His method is more about throwing his ideas in your face and making you wrong (uneducated, ignorant, even bigoted is implied) for disagreeing with him on anything, essentially shutting down any chance of intelligent discourse. I have had pre-concieved notions of what a teacher was and I was very disappointed. I may not have learned anything from him in his field, but I have learned other things about dealing with people that suck, that perhaps he did not intend to teach.

[@marniebrimhall986]

This conversation is incredibly powerful. Thank you both so much ❤

[@josephflores1537]

What you two discussed about "Thinking" that it's some how a negative thing. Which I disagree, it's thought that brings you the solution of where your thoughts take you and how you can change your thinking to bringing where you need to be. I know when I meditate I have thoughts and ideas. And they're positive and life changing.

[@MsBogie25]

Thank you for this! I loved listening! I love the thought “the key to happiness is to be free of passion but full of love”. Someone already said they believe it’s because passion is more self-processing. I liked that a lot, I do know that passion was once a word to mean suffering thousands of years ago. I wonder if this is what Aurelius meant? I also wish we could have more of his work, life, and mind.

[@jenniferbate9682]

This is like the words of Jesus too. “ love one another, as I have loved you.”

[@hemghartimagar4364]

Ryan, I stumbled across your channel before but I never really checked out your content. About a week ago, I watched a video finally and a few more. I must admit it's been a revelation and I'm grateful for your work. Thank you, look forward to learning more :)

[@ivargu]

I'm in the exact same position :)

[@hyperdrone7478]

.,

[@Kraftpunk1983vc]

Me too. My perspective has really changed lately. Thank you for this channel.

[@C.Hawkshaw]

Same here. I started watching DS about 3 weeks ago and my life has gotten a lot better. Also that book that you recommended “Do the work” is very helpful. Thanks Ryan

[@michaeln2044]

I was introduced to Ryan about 2 years ago through of course the Great Robert Green. Went out and bought a few of his books. I would recommend The Daily Stoic & The Obstacle is the Way.

[@coolcurly9736]

What Robert said about he likes to feel he is standing 6 inches away from himself and observe himself is quite interesting. This is what happens to you when you take LSD, or do 10,000 of zen meditation.

[@letsgetit90]

This happen to me when I drank a whole bottle of THC. Has a mind of body experiences lol I was high as a kite while I was leaving my body and observing my ass doing nothing. 😊

[@CarTops]

​@@letsgetit90how much was that?

[@letsgetit90]

@@CarTops - this was five years ago, and I think it cost around 25ish for the small drink.

[@J.13333]

it doesnt take that long to feel like that during meditation

[@sampsonjkk]

Iu 10:23 10:23 10:23 I 😅

[@Denni84636]

Good talk but background music very distracting

[@scotttyler3248]

Love these guys. Just bought a couple of their books as a birthday treat. Keep doing what you do fellas ❤

[@FrasiIndelebili]

can't wait to listen to this! Robert Greene is one of my favourite authors! let's go babyyy

[@jennifromtheblock216]

I absolutely Love Robert Greene 🩷 his words have changed my life & continue to do so.

[@nunusameera1523]

Legend Robert Green

[@euanlewis5977]

wow! roberts final points were a brilliant note to end on.

[@dantarradellas7351]

OMG. Awesome. Two of the greatest minds today. Thank you.

[@jbmarsico]

thank you for sharing your energy and wisdom with the world

[@nyc466]

Re-listening to this particular conversation helped tremendously over the last few months. The relationship between these two is just wonderful - so special obviously, but how it gets deeper throughout these long forums and what I hear as "new" each time - really keeps me coming back. Ive suffered much loss lately and; although I continue to tell myself "I made a prosperous journey after suffering shipwreck ".. @ 27 min -hearing the "The Key to happiness is to be free of passion but full of love" - From our beloved Marcus' mentor teachings prompted a comment and request. Ive always struggled with this meditation. I love Robert's natural initial response - "I'm not quite sure?!" :) I meditate on this quote often - while taking walks and I think it would be great for these two to go deeper.. What does it mean to love? What does it mean to lose love? The different forms of love - which Marcus and his mentor were thinking of in particular. If it was Greek which has 6 words for such an emotion - I feel like this need an entire discussion of dedication. When I listen to Ryan explain how he takes it - It reminds me of the "wanderers" within Norse Mythology. If you've watched the Vikings show made by the History Channel and recall a wanderer (no spoilers) who says - "You must not try to posess me. For that is not love" - you'll know exactly what I mean. Yet this is intimate love. What did Marcus and his mentor really mean? If I struggle with this, I know I cannot be alone. For what else is more important than love, when I can also find myself seeing the responses from Robert & Ryan here ('..Other passions are outward..') coincide with “Love is from another realm. We cannot manufacture it on demand. Nor can we subdue it when it appears. Love is not our choice to make.” I think society needs help defining love before understanding & engaging in it, then bifurcating it from passion. I LOVE THIS. More #amorfati

[@TrietLyCuocSongGSH]

Very true, I really agree with your thoughts. He is so wonderful and those books help me a lot. And I'm from Vietnam and also have a KZbin channel about life philosophy. It's so happy to listen to his shared videos

[@charlestyrrell4212]

I listen to you more and more. Your insights into the Stoics are helping me and for that I thank you

[@karengallegos750]

WHAT! omg, too cool! Love Robert, and now Ryan! awesome find! thank you both, such great knowledge, thank you, thank you, thank you, for your books!

[@tonybocelli1754]

I was laughing about Roberts comments about loving to watch Squirrels and how joyful their life is... I saw a squirrel attacked by an incoming hawk that he narrowly avoided, the hawk swooped in and stuck, lost grip and then was actually attempting to continue chasing the squirrel up through the tree limbs to finish off the squirrel. I turned my bike around on a dime to attempt to aid the squirrel but his take flight energy served him just fine. Life for the squirrel almost came to an end, it no doubt must be prepared at all times for life's challenges, much like each of us. Stoic Warriors prepare and rise to the occasion or die trying! Embrace your journey and fuel your purpose with steadfast determination, self control and discipline.

[@ainsivalavie9946]

I wish I can listen this video and find finaly a way to tirn it into a turning point of my life. How many podcast, books and co feremce do I need to put all this knowledge in action and find out who I am what can I accomplish when I use all the means in my possession. Wish to all these people who follow this path a successful journey

[@makaylahollywood3677]

One of my favorite interviews. Only thing better- i'd be in the room;-) Thank you both!

[@Crusadersix6]

I just started listening and taking from it what I can without being religious about it. I'm amazed about the fear from Covid that still exists between both participants. Especially from people who didn't VAX.

[@MundodePeliculasShow]

Immersed in the world of storytelling and video exploration lately. VideoGPT silently joined the journey, enhancing my content with its subtle yet impactful touch.

[@SuperReasonabledoubt]

Inner spirited thoughts & actions can't be beat. They are God acting through you

[@miguelluceromendez7235]

Great talk. Eye-opening to say the least!

[@agasparotto]

Just amazing encounter!

[@harmlesscreationsofthegree1248]

Extension of his arm yes, but also an extension of his will. Ultimately almost anything can be a weapon, it is your intent that transforms it from a useless object into that weapon.

[@magicalmindtransformation3474]

I'm a brand new subscriber. And I'm HOOKED!!! ❤️ Thankyou for making this channel and teaching and sharing these wonderful life skills!!

[@youknow9229]

pleasae, turn off the background music !!!

[@catcontent]

That squirrel bit, where Ryan starts at 60%, goes to 50%, and Robert catches it, was so funny. The dynamic is absolutely fascinating.

[@scotttaylor3334]

Ryan, excellent channel and amazing show. You have introduced me to Robert Greene, and I will be forever thankful. I am in the process of converting the exorbitant amount of dead time to which I have been accustomed, into alive time after a series of pretty devastating personal setbacks over the past few years. Your books and the books you recommend from the great stoics and other philosophers have been a huge part of that process. I just ordered the 48 Laws of Power by Robert, and I'm looking forward to receiving it. Also, I just signed up for your daily stoic life program, and I am really looking forward to digging into it. Keep up the amazing work. Also, I think when you were discussing boxing I think Robert was searching for the Marcus of Queensbury boxing rules.

[@8bitstriker138]

I just realised that people will in generations look back at this as an old clip of two legendary minds

[@NeoSoulquarian]

Great points as usual. I like the tying together of the 48 laws and stoicism. A lot of the 48 laws feel so negative to me, that it feels hard to find the relation, but it also seems that it is mostly just how unfamiliar I am with the ideas.

[@austinthornton8729]

My question? I have had the pleasure of reading Robert greens, opus on human personality. I expect and hope to read more about his insightful strategies and outlooks on life as it pertains to being in the arena and dealing with people. However, we need to try and remember on what level of a battlefield we are on. That could be as high of a position as CEO of a company. When one has to really deal with enemies from within and without of your purview or company that you run. It’s important to remember though, for most people every battle is not a Waterloo. Or DJ, the average men’s enemies are minuscule compared to those of Titans of industry, great generals and kings. How does a person use implement the strategies on a day-to-day basis. If One is starting with a new company. Or working around a team of people. And it is the first time for them. This information could be very useful. Strategic thinking is important to be mindful of so they don’t leave themselves open. Once, your friends, your enemies, your neighbors know you. And you’ve let them in without having read these books. It becomes immensely difficult to change white you‘we contemporaries around you to what they think and feel. Perception is difficult to change. And sometimes situations are so nuanced, that not even the wisest of men can get a grasp of the outcome. Unfortunately because we just don’t have the tools necessary to implement such decisions. People today are much more cagey, men are on to other peoples subtle moves. So, I would love more examples in these interviews with Mr. Green, that show real in every day situations, or explain to us the strategies by the every day comings and going‘s of people who work regular jobs for a living. Perhaps even people who are landlords Who have to deal with difficult tenants. Although very very useful tool and something to be aware of in his books. I wish the author could use less of great generals etc. Instead use every day situations to show and give us these examples of much of the day today operations of normal people. If you have read this thank you.

[@wendysusanlovejoy3983]

I am a huge fan of Pollyanna. She knew how to find the gratitude of every less than desirable moment or event. I have spent my life trying to become a Pollyanna.

[@chuckmccaughan4008]

I absolutely love Robert Green, I think he’s one of the great electricals and thinkers of our time, however, I cannot listen to this podcast because I find the music so distracting and precious as a back drop

[@theMAKAproject]

Great watch. Was riveted the whole time. A thought: Maybe the squirrels aren't dumb or forgetful. Maybe they leave some of the nuts they bury to grow trees for future. Perhaps they are planting them for posterity for future generations.

[@MaxamedMaxamed-ih5nl]

Two great authors ❤

[@Lupelifts-lm2zn]

Can someone redirect me to more videos like this. Love this perfect blend. Love to hear conversations and ideas bounce off from the stoics. Subscribed!

[@rjbeats4842]

look up this chanel impact theory, also look up stoic philosophy and audiobooks regarding these topics and you can do the deep dive

[@vbkarate]

Dr. Jordan Peterson

[@RomanPeacock21]

I'm loving this Convo... However... And I'm just curious... Do you want to revise the comment about the "anti-vaxers"? Just curious.

[@avidhossanmansur9830]

Love this guy!

[@SuperWilkat]

I live alone with my dog. I try to take her point of view as much as I can as another living thing bearing witness to my emotions. Works every time to snap me out of whatever it is that has a grip on me.

[@jessicaibarra2737]

Could you active the english subtitles please? so I can understand better all the video (im not native speaker of english) 😊

[@jenburch1504]

Change it your transition language. For example some people have hearing impaired they use closed captioning

[@tommybahammy]

Emotions are like driving. Driving is dependant on the strength of the vehicle and the skill of the driver. Emotions are the same in that it is two things: emotional capability and emotional control. Hense someone with great emotional control can appear emotionless and yet nothing could be further from the truth.

[@davidshiller178]

Even the terrible music added to the video didn’t blemish these great discussions.

[@kellieauxier5337]

Now you are getting juicy. Love this. This is real talk. Lovely.

[@andydufresne299]

Alive Time or Dead Time is essentially "Get Busy Living or Get Busy Dying."

[@tammys8711]

This came into my feed after listening about INFJ personality type from Myers-Briggs. Really interesting, earned a new subscriber.

[@StoicEvolution1]

Epictetus: "Don't be perturbed, for all things are according to the nature of the universal."

[@fathersonfitness2014]

Really enjoyed this. Thank you.

[@AnupmaSbhardwaj]

Amazing video ,listen to this on loop ❤❤❤thanks a lot for this conversation

[@HenrySmith-wm9iz]

Wow! Thanks for sharing this ideas with us!

[@concertautist4474]

Big learning opportunity for these two about those wrong thinking critical thinkers who didn't want experimental gene therapy.

[@diannemeaddesigns]

There comes a time when you have to draw a line between empathy, compassion and understanding and when others should be held accountable and take responsibility. In my view, it would be a disservice to, and denial of Stoic principles being an enabler under the guise of conditioning to extend understanding and compassion. It can also have a disempowering effect on the individual who continually makes allowances, both self-esteem wise and from the perspective of the eyes of the culprit, come predator.

[@BashaerB-h2c]

30:00 I don't think you can genuinely forgive someone while you are still under the influence of their abuse. Forgiveness comes after you distance yourself from that abuse or from them. Forgiveness that happens while abuse is ongoing seems like a form of surrender and weakness because you didn't have any other choice and forgiving them gives you somewhat a sense of power and control (more of a narcissistic thing than pure empathy). I couldn't forgive my narcissistic mother while she cut me off from everyone and tried to make my life hell. I slowly started to forgive her after I distanced myself and could actually breath and see beyond her existence again. Even then it's really really really hard when someone hurts you and you try to forgive them because you feel "why do they get to get away with it while I have to deal with fixing myself now?" Seems unfair, but truly content people don't enjoy making others miserable. Hence, these abusers will never gain peace in their way of life which is the ultimate loss for them.

[@artandculture5262]

They atrophy, and lose their own development, but they never become self-known or regretful for their abuse. I agree that during continued abuse it isn’t possible to forgive as your self is under mental violation and one is adjusting to survive. I don’t believe that people who don’t have mothers like you describe can imagine what it is like to live past it and to create oneself when the one who was supposed to love by law of nature couldn’t love. When people complain in social activism I shrug as they believe life is general, but it isn’t. It’s a work of each unit of personality. No one can fight the life of someone else.

[@ahsengchong6115]

thank you robert

[@macblah-wn3hi]

Well done that teacher she was right.