Roselia would've been GREAT in Gen1

Rules:
1. Only my starter in battle
2. No items in battle, except held items
3. No glitches, exploits, or save states
4. No movepool evasion-boosting moves before level 100*
Rule details:
-- I make no attempt to have the exact same rule details between generations.
-- I am allowed to manipulate my starter
-- I play the game at 4x game speed
-- For fair comparisons my Pokemon have perfect (or near perfect) DVs / IVs
-- I am allowed to catch HM users - I can use all field moves
-- Evasion boosting is allowed if the move is not obtained from the Pokemon’s movepool. For example, using Mimic or Mirror Move to boost evasion is allowed.
-- Surge's trash-can-puzzle is automatically solved
-- The bike is allowed in gen1 & 4, banned in gen2, and allowed only to bypass terrain in gen3
-- Saving between league members is allowed
-- I can pause the game and timer to take breaks
-- Items obtained with the ability Pickup can only be used if the starter obtained them
-- The footage is sped up & slowed down to match the pace of my narration
These Rule details apply only to generation 1:
-- All battle-mechanic glitches are allowed (glitches that occur outside of battle are banned)
-- In generation 1, I'm allowed to skip Marowak with the Poke Doll
If you didn’t read these rules and left a comment. Thanks for helping with the algorithm.
Patreon: / scottsthoughts
KZbin memberships:
/ @scottsthoughtspokemon
X: / psychicflying
Thumbnail art by BrianLS: / brianlsart
Illustrations by Sarina Vail: / sarinavail
Video Editing by Shawn McMullen
STAB: bulbapedia.bul...
DVs / IVs: bulbapedia.bul...
Damage Calculation: bulbapedia.bul...
Stat and Catch Calculators: pycosites.com/...
Gen1 Crit Rates: www.smogon.com...
Growth Rates: bulbapedia.bul...
Learnsets: bulbapedia.bul...
Base Stats: bulbapedia.bul...)
If you're new around here, Venomoth is a Psychic/Flying type, you can't change my mind.

[@Flaming_Rok]

One criticism out the gate when it comes to this backport has to do with the learnset of Roselia. Because Mega Drain is a Gym Leader exclusive TM in Gen 1, no Pokemon would learn it naturally (the ONLY exception to this rule is Pikachu in Yellow for Thunderbolt), so Mega Drain should not've been part of their levelup learnset. As for the equivalent of Grasswhistle...Sing was right there, the other song based sleep move, and both moves have the same accuracy! I don't think these alterations would nerf Roselia too much, but it is worth mentioning. Looking forward to the rest of the video however!

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

Another suggestion would've been to make magical leaf based on the swift code but with the razor leaf animation

[@pjanderson4876]

I see where you’re coming from with Grasswhistle, but I have to disagree. Scott usually tries to think about what GameFreak would have given it if it were a Gen 1 Pokémon, and they might have given it Sing early game and Sleep Powder a little later. I agree with Mega Drain though, GameFreak probably would have given it Razor Leaf and/or Petal Dance. I’m leaning more towards Razor Leaf, because Petal Dance is the signature move of the Oddish line, but Razor Lead has wider distribution. They both pass the vibe check for Roselia, but I think Petal Dance fits better.

[@pjanderson4876]

@@adventureoflinkmk2That’s more like how Gym Leader Matt does his back-ports, but Scott usually doesn’t change any moves, unless they’re required for the Pokémon to work. Like Smeargle would have to get Sketch backported, but Roselia can function just fine without Magical Leaf. It would prefer Razor leaf in practically every situation.

[@Knytewish]

I feel like Jolteon learned thunderbolt back in gen 1?

[@pjanderson4876]

@@Knytewish it did not, no Pokémon learned Thunderbolt by level up, excluding Pikachu in Yellow. That’s true for basically all the Gym Leader TMs, no Pokémon learn that move by level-up. Maybe I’m forgetting an instance of something, but I know for a fact that is true with Thunderbolt.

[@trevorp875]

I'm convinced that Surge saw some horrible stuff in war so he doesn't have it in himself to win a fight anymore. He's not bad, he just doesn't have that killer spirit anymore....

[@aLime404]

I love that despite hiring artists all the time for his videos, Scott cares SO deeply about sprites that he feels compelled to make the backport sprites himself

[@williamstanley9048]

Here before he corrects the title typo

[@Metalhammer1993]

Shhhht don't draw attention to it😂

[@Canvas-nb]

same!

[@eljay13]

It'll take a bit since he schedules uploads

[@Snipergod1024]

Also here. Would'v gang unite!

[@redshirt8611]

Made it before the typo got fixed

[@NevG27]

Ok that bruno driveby was *chef's kiss*. Kudos to the editor.

[@RobinTheMetaGod]

That chef meme is fucking stupid.

[@wildstorm3486]

@@RobinTheMetaGodit may be stupid but it’s still funny. Losses up a little and have some fun. But if you really don’t like it. That’s fine too. We all have our different preferences when it comes to humor. If you don’t like this type it’s fine.

[@nachorzeszut1857]

the "ranked: 104/1025" on the tierlist hits so hard, one day it'll be something like 1000/1700

[@mindustrial]

If he would stop doing backports and re-rankings until he at least did all Gen 1 it would've been done :D

[@kalma5003]

Gotta spice it up somehow to keep things more interesting

[@nachorzeszut1857]

@@mindustrial but it brings variety to the gen 1 videos, it's interesting to see how Pokémon design and balance has evolved in all these years

[@Naxhus2]

Let's say he does a pokemon a week, and there are 100 new pokemon released every 3 years which is about how often they release a new generation, and that he only ever does pokemon in their generation (eg gen 2 pokemon in gen 2, which we know is not the case but for the sake of the assignment)... that means he'll catch up about 20 pokemon a year, which means that he will catch up in approximately (900/20) 45 years.

[@nachorzeszut1857]

@@Naxhus2 Scott has said several times that he wants to increase the number of videos a week he releases, but yeah, it's going to be a slow process

[@frankieinjapan]

That was an awesome run. If roselia was actually in gen 1, GF would've given it poison sting to start, and absord at lebel 29, then a bunch of status and shitty normal moves haha 🤣 but hopefully we get a Gatr backport someday, my favorite mon 😁

[@pjanderson4876]

If he backports Feraligatr, I want him to use the Gen 3 backsprite so we get a whole video of Gatr Cheeks

[@Duothimir]

​@@pjanderson4876Feels like it's wearing nothing at all... nothing at all... nothing at all...

[@Dictionary_Remix]

As a Roselia/Roserade fan, Im very happy with this choice of challenge!

[@Glidus]

oh we are being FED this weekend 🙏

[@kevinpatridge]

Scott I was finally recovering from daily December withdrawals and now you’re spoiling us again 😭 love the content!!

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

We're ramping back up! Daily December is happening again this year :D

[@MrValravnen]

Fantastic job on the pixel art :D You really captured the spirit of the gen1 sprites, and it looks great to boot!

[@Erranteumbra]

You should keep growth and get rid of mega drain for the mid game. You can teach mega drain again from the tm from Erica when you need it again, and growth solves the dangers of koga’s psychic and Blaine’s fire attacks.

[@SmashMath151]

I also noticed this! It does take a few seconds of extra menuing, but probably well worth it for the consistency.

[@ace94d]

Something worth noting with Mega Drain is that you can re-teach it it with Erika's TM. So if the Growth strategy saves more time than re-teaching the TM (which IIRC is about a 5 second time loss? Basically, one reset I think) then you can still use it. Something I wondered is if keeping Growth for the 5th Rival battle into Koga / Blaine Gym and only Swords Dancing afterwards might be worthwhile? You can set up on Sandslash as long as you want and the main draw of Swords Dance mostly seems like it'd go afterwards especially since badge boost still boosts Body Slam, but it might be too slow to do the extra setup / miss ranges on random stuff I am not thinking of. But the TM reteach strategy at least seems legit.

[@TheDarkFiddler]

After a two week trip in the Adirondacks my video backlog is MASSIVE, but I still clicked onto this one immediately. Love your work, Scott!

[@EmanuelleMaroni]

This video feels like an ode to my favourite Pokémon and i thank you kindly for blessing my evening with it 💚 so happy to see other people recognize the prowess of Roselia!

[@lucasyoungers]

22:59 I love the Pokémon Adventures art for the Elite Four SO MUCH

[@6smeargle]

Can't wait to see the backsprite! Edit: Oh, that's actually really nice! Gen I sprite jank with the same colouration of the flowers - tasteful.

[@gambleralex5083]

Back port from Scott! Lets go great surprise upload

[@tylerthompson3075]

"The bug-type specialist, Koga." Um... Uh... Who's gonna tell him?

[@ChrisWilliams-ur7fn]

"The dragon type specialist, Lance."

[@MoriartyGod]

No question the best solo Pokémon challenge channel. Used to watch Jrose before i discovered Scott. Never misses on a video.

[@VestedUTuber]

Just to note, using the higher stat makes 100% sense for backporting across the special stat split, since every Pokemon moving from gen 1 to gen 2 used their gen 1 special stat to define the higher of their two special stats in gen 2

[@DwunD016]

Februarys community race! This will be a fun watch

[@luizbezerra4373]

Just started watching, but something that came to my mind: instead of Sleep Powder, wouldn't it be better Sing to replace Grasswhistle? After all, their accuracy is very similar, while Sleep Powder has a much greater accuracy.

[@ItsFireTiger]

You gotta remember the typing... If it's grass type, GF gives it Sleep Powder If it's any other type, GF gives it Sing

[@luizbezerra4373]

@@ItsFireTiger but Grasswhistle is literally a grass-type Sing: a sound-based move with low accuracy that induces sleep.

[@eekajmoneybaby9309]

Oh yeah another backport video. I genuinely like seeing these as I feels really funny to watch how a newer pokemon would have stacked up to the original 151? And peaks intrest in what if this pokemon was a original mon. Would love to something like what if the dragon fight type from gen 7 was in gen 1.

[@ryansainsbury7858]

That backsprite is far too well-done. An AUTHENTIC Gen I backsprite should be weirdly zoomed-in on the head, with Roselia's three skull triangles jabbing outward at bizarre angles and taking up 60% of the image. I should have to stare at it for a solid thirty seconds before I can even figure out what you're even *trying* to depict. It should look like the first attempt of a six year-old raised in a household whose religion forbids the use of undo buttons.

[@GabeOwzer]

Back sprite is spot-on 👍

[@TheAnalyticalEngine]

Come for the pokémon, stay for the cat pictures

[@Gungho73]

Same. I can listen to this in background. I can't listen to cat pictures.

[@PraefMace]

And here we are! Didn't expect one video so soon after the Shellder one but it is a very welcome surprise! And droooopped my balllsssss!

[@mech-nzplays2847]

I LOVE all the lines you say even if you think you say them too much. it makes them memorable!

[@flarespawnkryptgodd3384]

Holla if the title still says "Would'v"

[@PLF__]

first time watching a scott video oj the day of the upload… cant wait to see this run

[@Smileyrat]

Cute back sprite. Love that you kept it true to form and the "hands" were not coloerd becuse of the system limitations.

[@AlexanderJamesWhite]

KZbin comments are great for algorithm. I love these backports. High quality content.

[@mr.number9279]

I love the Bruno uh, "mention" lol. "There's this guy. He's not an Elite Four member. Here's Agatha, the second member of the Elite Four." I like how basically you describe Roselia as the "mom I want [x]/we have [x] at home (lower quality version)" meme template in regards to Roselia and Victreebel, but the problem is Victreebel at home (Roselia) is still an absolute beast, lol.

[@bettyunicorn6132]

If Roselia was in gen 1 it won’t learn mega drain or toxic by level up. Only Pikachu in yellow learns a gym tm by level up. And it’s the special starter Pikachu.

[@beeflion]

Oh I missed these back ports! Thanks Scott!

[@Shadowvanify]

Surprise backport video! Awesome!

[@Nicholas86753]

I love this so much, please backport more Pokémon!

[@KRACKSMACK]

Bruno: “Hey” - Amazing. The disrespect hit an all time high in this one 😂😂😂

[@rainbowphoenix1363]

Its so weird how the world seems to be trying to kick roselia down, its nice seeing you care so much about this Pokémon most people forget

[@kevinsips3658]

A surprise video is always a wonderful gift, so thank you, Scott! Anyway, my actual comment is that: no razor leaf is a shock to me

[@masterthune]

I was thinking, with your back port series it would make a lot of sense to do a backport of all Pokemon that are an evolution or pre-evolution of gen 1 Pokemon also Pokemon that are/were show cased in gen 1 but were later gens ( such as Togepi and Marill)

[@adamtucker6623]

Love to see pokemon being backported like Gym Leader Matt's content

[@kevinsips3658]

A surprise video is always a wonderful gift, so thank you, Scott! Anyway, my actual comment is that: no razor leaf is a shock to me. @6:44: “[Mega Drain] is a big upgrade when compared to growth”. Oof.

[@naraiceylob]

Razor leaf did exist in gen 3 and Roselia didn't learn it so its understandable not to include it. Razor leaf could have been included to replace magical leaf and giga drain filling the need (that I see before watching the video for a mid game grass move).

[@kevinsips3658]

@@naraiceylob yeah I am just surprised that Scott didn’t sub razor leaf for magical leaf, that’s what I was trying to get at, maybe I didn’t phrase it the best.

[@naraiceylob]

@@kevinsips3658 fair. The constant crits might make it an overpowered substitution. Or too like victreebell.

[@kevinsips3658]

@@naraiceylob perhaps. I thought it would be addressed at least, maybe that’s what was most surprising, since it seems so easy to… one-to-one those moves, I guess? Like I always thought of them as very similar moves, so I thought there was no doubt he would give it razor leaf

[@tekno4blood]

*time saver* when you buy the 10 super repels, instead of pressing up 10x and down once, press right once to add 10 (hitting 11) and down once to drop it to 10. That's 2 button presses, instead of 11.

[@IainsTheName]

Can you do this in Vanilla Yellow? I always assumed that was added retroactively in Yellow Legacy?

[@Gabbo-uf4eq]

Roselia's abdorb on the rock-hard Pokémon of the first gym... I have a deja-vu 😂

[@mason5789]

Loved this video Scott! Really refreshing to see another video like this.

[@Marchingvenusaur]

The back ports are awesome. I imagine theyre a shit ton of work, and it shows.

[@randommanomega6826]

One quick thing about Gen 3 tutors: even though it's a Gen 1 TM, Swift isn't a tutor move in FR/LG. For some reason, it got grouped with Gen 2 TM moves like the elemental punches in Emerald, so Roselia probably should've gotten TM 39. Granted, outside of Sabrina it almost never matters anyway...

[@bananaspice1967]

The cute little rose being strong pleases me

[@anthonyzazo2008]

Hey scott just wanted to point out some trends that usually only cost you 1-2 seconds per run but still wanted to point it out anyways. 7:40 at the misty fight, your sequence was double growth into triple mega drain which equals 5 turns. As long as after 1 growth, mega drain 1hkos staryu (sorry if it doesnt im just assuming it does) the sequence of growth, mega drain, mega drain mega drain wins the misty fight in 4 turns. Specifically, you often know all of the damage ranges like the back of your hand but im not always sure if you need to set up 6 hardens or set up 6 turns but im assuming you often set up to +6 because mashing the a button (and trying to get stat boosts) is still very fast but at times it appears you waste a turn or two setting up all of the way. (also another thing i understand which you pointed out is saving in front of the brock fight I noticed theres a few major battles on paper you should never lose but you save due to muscle memory/being ultra safe).

[@drewfobbe7851]

ahh, i love this series! Slaking would probably be the best gen 1 mon

[@DarthBupsbricks]

I just want to take a moment to acknowledge the beatiful sprite of this roselia

[@SmashMath151]

This one was quite fun to play, though something like Acid would've been nice for Nugget Bridge. Perfectly sums up the Gen 1 phenomenon of not wanting to crit at the wrong time!

[@Fergueschwartz]

I love ideas like this.

[@iskander0725]

I am so so curious how some of the new age Normal Types would handle Gen. 1. Stoutland comes to the top of my mind. Love it when you do backports, Scott.

[@TheMoogleKing93]

"New age" - Stoutland was released 14 years ago. That's how long ago Pokemon Red was released before Pokemon Black.

[@banditrests]

I’m always psyched when we get a mimic lick strat. There’s just something really funny about Gen 1 physical ghost damage being the path through Agatha

[@Pikatwig16]

If you're looking for more backport ideas, then maybe bring regional variants back to their debut game to see how they do (IE, Alolan Raichu and Alolan Vulpix in Yellow, Hisuian Typhlosion in Gen 2)

[@perkypenguin1663]

It's great to see Grass types slaying Gen 1 and getting respectable results. If only Exeggcute and Exeggutor got SD in Gen 1....

[@andrewburgess-linden9612]

I had a dog named Rosie, she's unfortunately no longer with us. R.i.p. Rosie

[@voicelesstalent5426]

I always wanted a shiny roselia, and I finally found one in a challenge run of Pokémon sapphire

[@Kmn483]

7:04 "I believe that gamefreak gave Bulbasaur the poison type just so that it wasn't so bad against poison types in the early game" Meanwhile there's Charmander that's weak against the first 2 gyms and mt moon.

[@Knytewish]

3:10 that was hilarious. Dude was just offended by you and left without the tutorial.

[@bavarian995]

I would'v reread the title before uploading, Scott

[@JakeTheHawk]

The sprite work was fantastic!

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

16:40 perfect run dies here, F in the chat, press F to pay respects

[@34autobot]

Kanto's league is called they Elite Four because there are exactly four trainers: Lorelei, Agatha, Lance, and Blue

[@eekajmoneybaby9309]

Still hoping to see a tier list for back ports specifically then, could do side by side comparison to the gen it's competing against

[@garrett7261]

awesome video enjoyed it keep up your great content

[@hhjan594]

Been a while to actually see a Psychic/ Flying Venomoth

[@PapaSmurfJuju]

One of the best grass/poison types ever!

[@bluethemew9273]

Roselia is a good Pokémon in both design and stats while not the best considering latest Pokémon and their stats but I bet Roserade backport would be possibly better, albeit it’s a stone evolution so you’d not learn moves in this game but I feel it would learn moves basically like victreebell, sleep inducing and a decent attack move with growth if you give it a similar set like how roselia got, considering Gen 4’s odd level up set

[@HelloJohnRyan]

The back sprite looks great!

[@mjdxp5688]

This is kind of a weird idea, but I can't help but wonder how well Scyther would do if it started with Twineedle, the best Bug type move in the game. I feel like Bug being super effective against Poison could make Scyther very good, even with the difficult Brock matchup.

[@inventiveusername5191]

First thoughts on seeing the moveste: Sleep Powder instead of Grasswhistle feels a bit questionable because sleep powder is such a better move. Giving it sing might have been fairer. If any move was going to be ported in for it I reckon Magical Leaf would have made the most sense - type swapped swift is fine with gen1 mechanics and it's also one of this thing's key STAB moves.

[@ItsFireTiger]

It's not questionable at all if you remember GF always goes for Sleep Powder on Grass Type Mons specifically

[@samig9032]

Wonderful work as always. But I must say, giving it a 100 spc stat and not 90 makes no sense to me. The base stat total is 400 in Gen 3. Giving it 100 special is buffing it to an effective 420 stat total. Whereas 90 spc preserves its intended strength.

[@lulugaj5859]

I noticed that you calculate stab incorrectly in your overlay. It should not multiply the base power. it is used on its own in the damage formula, so the results are different. Here is an example: Here i made the charizard normal type in the calculator ( to get stab) Lvl 36 Charizard Hyper Beam vs. Lvl 36 Charizard: 66-78 (48.8 - 57.7%) -- 96.4% chance to 2HKO And here I made Hyper beam 1.5X the base power(like how you do) : Lvl 36 Charizard Hyper Beam vs. Lvl 36 Charizard: 65-77 (48.1 - 57%) -- 91.9% chance to 2HKO See, you get different results. Its a bit weaker. And i am pretty sure this is the same for all gens.

[@SourceOfBeing]

On the tier list, I think it'd be nice to have something to make it easier to see which pokemon are from gens. An outline or a background colour for example.

[@OneMoreDesu]

I think anything that gets a free Brock/Misty split is going to do rather well

[@brandonlangley1009]

Great run. However, I think you should have given it Razor Leaf in place of Magical Leaf. With Roselia`s speed and Razor Leaf`s critical hit ratio, it would have been a decent move.

[@brandonburns18]

Just abused the sleep/growth strat in Yellow Legacy with Venusaur… This run is going to be top tier

[@Sternreign]

Can't wait for the eventual Palkia Backport. Would also like to see a Kingdra backport.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I did Kingdra already, go check it out!

[@Sternreign]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon I'll check it out after this. Thanks.

[@joshuafleury4017]

Rosie is one of my daughter's nicknames, short for Rosalynn, good nickname choice 🤙😄

[@GenerusCrow]

Which of Koga's Pokemon are bug-types? Surely you can't be meaning the Fire/Psychic Venomoth

[@ultimapower6950]

Fire/Psychic? I thought it was Ice/Psychic

[@GenerusCrow]

​@@ultimapower6950 I think it was Ice/Psychic for the second run

[@gypsysprite4824]

This makes me wonder how Roserade would fare, with much better stats and poison sting in exchange for losing most of its levelup moves (if you based levelup moves on gen 4) and a more annoying crit rate

[@coolnath99]

love the back sprite

[@rhade3845]

I wouldn't mind seeing a back port of espeon and umbreon.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Yeah, I'd like to do those two, although, Umbreon is a tricky case for a backport. Dark-type, and it's BST is a bit tricky because of the stat distribution. It's challenging to balance it correctly with the other Eeveelutions. Probably one of the hardest Pokemon to backport from gen2 to gen1.

[@rhade3845]

@ScottsThoughtsPokemon espeon is definitely easier to implement, but definitely understand the umbreon issue. I assume you would have to recode quite a bit just to mimic the type, like turning all psychic attacks to ghost, and have them interact with umbreon as if he was normal type, but most of that is likely hard coded, and not something that could be modified.

[@sopadumacacoumadelicia5]

I definitely wasn't expecting this but alright, Im curious about it. Only thing though is that imo Sleep Powder is much, much better than Grass Whistle, wouldn't really call it an equivalent. Hpynosis woulda been a better fit, even if it sounds a bit weird

[@GerBessa]

Sing. The normal type doesn't matter on a status move, since the AI never controls the Roselia.

[@sopadumacacoumadelicia5]

​@@GerBessa I forgot sing existed 🤑

[@Axioanarchist]

3:33 i couldve sworn you did a backport run with Misdreavus, or was i thinking of someone else? If not, theres a suggestion :) Edit: oh just got to the end, that would explain it lol

[@johnlordly]

AH yes exactly what Gen 1 needed another grass/poison type

[@BrianKnieling]

When you run out of ideas start back porting everything to gen1

[@maxeidemuller7278]

I think something went wrong with the critical hit ratio. 1 in 8 attacks should be crits. Throughout the run there are almost no crits. The first notable one is against Koga.

[@Salnax]

I was about to leave KZbin, but then I would'v missed this.

[@davidestabrooks211]

I feel like Magical Leaf could have been replaced by either Swift or Razorleaf for this backport.

[@tidalwave2k11]

I don't usually comment, but doing so because it's good for the KZbin algorithm

[@nelsondaily]

The backsprite is absolutely beautiful! Good job Scott!

[@ChaosWindScar99]

Hey a backport, nice. Thanks Scott!

[@pjanderson4876]

34:03 Couldn’t you keep Growth over Mega Drain for Koga and Blaine, and then teach it again with the TM before Lorelai? Or does Mimic throw a wrench in that plan?

[@pieair]

Oeh😮 a backport again 😮 and now not a backport but a typeswap port for venomoth. Giving it his REAL type....ice fire

[@VCV95]

Good spritework!