What if the EOC was never released?

[@devinmcdrip]

Osrs was only made because of eoc

[@shark3x]

Not everybody wanted OSRS though

[@FreddyMercry]

Honestly I would have much preferred a 2011 OSRS. That was my favourite time of RS.

[@definitelydaniel69420]

osrs is decent. pre-eoc is best

[@Bleacherzzz]

i personally love eoc. not a fan of osrs but hey, to each their own.

[@Trazerade]

I wouldn't of minded pre eoc servers, Osrs nostalgia lasted a bit but now I just wish it was pre eoc tbh

[@Selci93]

Dungeoneering, curses, overloads, summoning.. ahh yes.. those were the times....

[@rehanshaukat2035]

Stop ir bro your hitting me right in the nostalgia

[@transformlifemusic]

dungeneering was amazing. i still try to find dungeon crawler games that match the feel. if you know of any let me know and lets play them together.

[@DarthDinos]

I maxed cb like 2 weeks before eoc 😭

[@jollygrapefruit786]

Dungeoneering was a legitimately great minigame. I wouldn't be opposed to it being put in OS, but not as a skill.

[@Tay_Singer]

EOC came 2 years too early. RS2 still had time to run, then slowly release the EOC update. Jagex really rug-pulled us all and I'll never forgive that. Went from playing everyday to nothing. It's comparable to losing a close person to you.

[@brere45678]

Facts, years of playing the game from like 06 grinding the game hard and immersing yourself with your life in runescape just got wiped out.

[@toxy3580]

I quit the day I got into the EOC beta. Just gave my bank to my clan mate and never played again. Didn't been play osrs until 2016 because I couldn't trust Jagex. Still don't trust them really, don't agree with the osrs balance changes so I don't play much.

[@transformlifemusic]

i cant believe its already been almost 10 years since eoc update. it felt like it happened just yesterday, literally torn me. the only hobby in my life i was good at and it was fucking ruined.

[@Tay_Singer]

@@transformlifemusic I know right, just remember to set some real life goals and work towards it. All the best to you my friend

[@grandcanyon2]

@@toxy3580 this is late but i had similar story i starte dplaying rs in 2000 during the beta the game game out in late august summer 2000. I enjoyed rs2 once eoc came i quit the game. I heard osrs was coming out i played non-stop for 30 days i hit lvl 90 on osrs doing well but i was busy with life and the thought of retraining all these skills again made me quit as i had like a 1800+ total lvl 123 and like 8x lvl 99s skills. So i quit and didn't return till mobile came out and i slowly played on mobile then afgter 2 years i went to pc. Now my toon is even stronger then it ever was on rs2, 2200+ total max lvl.

[@SmdLmd]

I'm probably the only person here that liked the 08-09 Pvp / BH years with the trade limits. The economy of runescape was at its peak due to items disappearing from the game . Bots were non existent . You never knew what kind of drop you'd get from another player with a risk . Literally it was the most enjoyable part of my runescape career .

[@mihuuuu]

i had a lot of fun at those times, essentially your playstyle had to be complete for you to risk equipment and fund your pking supplies

[@checker297]

item sink and inflation via the statues/armours via pvp worlds it made all those armours go up, in all honesty though I loved that period for merching as it was a different time when you were limited by 5% and junk trading and all that stuff, plus rares were so much cheaper back then, probably junk, not sure on the exact date everyone started buying back rares. Traded a disk of returning for a set of full sara armour lol

[@furkan1503]

yeah Pvp worlds, Bounty Hunter Death match etc were awesome.

[@Wooleneyes]

Yes I loved when everything was expensive it felt very rewarding because of all the hard work you did to get it, nowadays it takes no effort at all to get the things that are worth obtaining in this game

[@MotionMasterMike]

You’re not alone bro those days were golden

[@SoupRS]

Your videos are always produced very professionally man, nice video

[@BobTheBuilderBuilding]

They say that if you are early, The best runescape content maker will respond

[@SoupRS]

yes

[@BobTheBuilderBuilding]

Iron memro I actually find his guides pretty useful

[@rswillmissit]

Thank you!

[@b3astpwn]

unlike you and your going to the bank 12 times ever 5minutes guides

[@scaper12123]

The biggest reason I feel people hate eoc is because it was such a major change and many people could never have been prepared for such things.

[@starlord7058]

It literally became a different game. Items you owned that made 50% of your wealth became worthless and cheap overnight... dragon claws? No special attack weapons? All trashed overnight.

[@Frank451Martin]

Yeah it completely change the meta so drastically which really pissed off a lot of old players. Hell I was also livid when they announced it and stop playing RuneScape entirely for couple of years.

[@007kingifrit]

it ruined every aspect of the game. when it came out special attacks didn't exist anymore. and every enemy had a range and magic attack (without an animation usually) it was a cheap wow clone with a skillbar, but i never asked for a skillbar. i like click and wait gameplay

[@Labyrinth6000]

It made combat much more engaging and faster to train.

[@wokeil]

Just looking at osrs bosses and the different mechanics in place to make them more difficult it seems that your first point isnt really valid.

[@shahzadarif4712]

None of his points are valid it was pure speculation and a way to defend eoc. Osrs is still running strong

[@bird9188]

@@shahzadarif4712 because eoc is actually very good and adds a lot of depth to the combat that osrs doesnt have

[@RSGameboto4]

If there was no EoC, there would be no Oldschool.

[@AndrishhRS]

Cause there would be no need for it

[@gabrielgagne2004]

+AndrishhRS if there was no old school I would never came back even if the combat system remained the same

[@Jayseph143]

@Emily's Wig, he's one person with the same opinion as many others.

[@reade_me]

1 person of a HUGE amount that returned because of old school

[@kidsinafrica3080]

sherlock thats the only good thing bout it they made shit update and then they made good release of osrs. The devs knew how shit eoc is so they made osrs

[@CrewDino]

Well if you think about it. The reason why runescape released the armors and weapons they did is because it fits with RS3. The items armors and weapons wouldn't exist if RS3 did not happen aka EOC. Meaning they would create new content and if they were to introduce those new items it would balance with the "current state" of the game.

[@ForestFairy]

Rs3 came out 2 years before EOC

[@prodnashb1144]

@@ForestFairy what? eoc was released 20 nov 2012, rs3 was released 22 july 2013?

[@KingCranaus]

Oh hi

[@freebee95553]

Not a valid argument, I would much rather them rework armor stats than reduing the whole combat system.

[@rswillmissit]

This video has become my (currently) most commented video overall! That's pretty epic - I love reading the discussions!

[@PainTitan0]

I like this video!

[@kingstrman2535]

Hey this is KING str man! thanks for featuring my thread! didn't expect that at all :D

[@Jin-lx7or]

That Nokia armour though hahahaha

[@TheeRNightGamer]

I don't mind EOC, it needed to be done. However, I did mind my account progress, I was enjoying the simplicity of the game which is well known for, then it got a "sex change" without the player's concern lol is like they threw my time I invested of fun away.

[@TheeRNightGamer]

if anything RS3 should have been a different game, Not the continuation of OSRS

[@SparcMacLlVE]

EOC killed the game in my opinion, sounds like yours is different though ;)

[@Piraja27]

I thought you would stay neutral on this Sparcy.

[@Xenotaurr]

Well it obviously didn't seeing as there are 50k+ people on at any one time during the day...

[@Xenotaurr]

+Cameron Sweet I agree with this. They rushed it as they had already delayed it, and it took a while to balance but if they released it they way it is now people would most likely adapt.

[@ioverslept.]

But you're sparcmac

[@yesjo1456]

SparcMacLlVE it gave birth to a new game

[@iDragy]

we would have never had the sellwands meme :(

[@FreddyMercry]

nor would we have had the ban emily meme

[@YOUTY209]

EoC being reverted panic sell wands!@@@

[@trolismyword]

Emily would still have faked cancer so yes we would.

[@notoriousthief]

If eoc was never released, i would never be able to kill Nomad. I'm just that bad a player.

[@SchneiderOSRS]

He-Hey Guys..I like both rs3 and osrs plz don't belt me with rotten tomatoes (I'm allergic to red)

[@realbanker6072]

Same bud

[@reade_me]

same its kinda fun watching the people who are biased for what they play throw unproven "facts" around to insult each other XD (actually I've seen both sides claim they have double the playerbase of the other)

[@reade_me]

私はお尻が好き *triggered*

[@TheCooderix]

Hell yes. Both are great. Grew up with "OSRS" but currently main RS3. Sometimes it's quite a unreal feeling that i'm back in gielinor again. It's been so long.

[@mxvdbos]

Nederlands is een kut taal

[@Murgins]

SO it basicly turns in to OSRS

[@deanzeez]

Rude

[@zakinfinite]

with better graphics

[@mistermystery1999]

With micro transactions

[@zakinfinite]

mistermystery1999 true

[@Arnexis]

Although osrs doesnt have a declining player base. osrs is growing.... a lot.

[@solanumtinkr8280]

I think one main point was missed in the video. The Old combat system had been riddled with legacy spaghetti code and was in fact breaking down. When you can drink an extreme potion and watch your slayer task gargoyle get buffed, there is a problem. When you spend months locked into low hits with any weapon except the pollypore staff. something is broken. Without the EoC the old combat system would have continued to be stuck in the broken rut. So what would happen? With no rebuild new weapons and weapon mechanics would continue to be added making the spaghetti and RNG aspect of the game more and more complicated, introducing more and more incurable bugs. With no incentive to rebuild the system it would eventually only be held together with duct-tape and prayers. With the "unlucky" few simply quitting out of sheer frustration of their cursed accounts. They would have gained an increasing reputation for a combat system that was totally broken While such an alternative Runescape may not have come to pass, without the investment in the EoC to pave the way, NXT may never have happened and as browsers stopped supporting Java, well. It could have been very bleak outlook. I for one, without the introduction of the EoC would have quit. When you go in with top tier gear, prayers and overloads on a shared slayer task and the other person in mid level gear and not using much else at all out DPS you and out kills the NPC by a wide margin every time, something is very wrong. After hitting rock bottom, the hints of the EoC and the combat system overhaul, kept me clinging on for 6 more months of bug ridden combat and the eventual release of the Beta which I can honestly say was rip roaring fun. Thank goodness for the EoC fixing that mess!

[@michaelperrigo]

About time someone speaks sense!

[@tomcatfdynasty]

I remember I kept ignoring the polls about EOC just thinking it was another random update that would bring in more new weapons and armor. Back then all I did was pk; in f2p I would range/2h and in p2p I liked to brid. I had just completed the quest for curses and camped guilded altars for 3 days to get turmoil and when I finally hit it I was burnt out. Decided to take a break and try bridding with the curses the next day . What really sucks about this is that this was literally on the night of November 19th when I decided to take a break until the next day to try it out. I log on the next day to this HUGE overhall and wouldn't you know it there's pretty much no way to brid AND the com at levels got all dramatically changed so me being only 47 def became a prob since I was maxed everywhere else my cb jumped like 11 or 12 levels. Was just a shitty week basically. Lol

[@Valosken]

I do think the game would be better if it hadn't been released (more people around, for one, but also a better economy, as mentioned), but not that much. Maybe do "What if Guthix hadn't died?" for another one.

[@xLeetz0r]

I quit several years ago and I still miss the crap out of pre-EoC RS.

[@CyrusBluebird]

which song did you use in the video? I'm not talking about the outro song.

[@rswillmissit]

In order; Memories of Guthix, Forest, Saradominists. All in-game tracks. :)

[@CyrusBluebird]

+rswillmissit cheers.

[@TheInsaneTeddy]

"Jagex aims to please most of the community" 🤣🤣🤣 for 100k+ players they had only about 400 players beta test EoC...LOL

[@Mrvideosandgames]

Hey, what video editor did you use?

[@catlikelegotehepik]

I didn't mind the eoc, I just didn't like the new armour/textures (it made my pc lag)

[@RNG-999]

Dude, download the complete NXT client and wait an hour or two for the client to automatically install the 8Gb cache whilst sitting in the lobby. NXT is meant to load everything automatically from that 8Gb cache instead of CONSTANT loading like java. NXT made my potato laptop go from 20fps on Java to 65fps with the NXT client.

[@catlikelegotehepik]

+TheDevillChaser Woah seriously :o, thanks

[@RNG-999]

No problem. I'm being serious, more OSRS players need to see NXT for themselves. This is the reason why RuneScape still has potential and why a company bought Jagex for 300 million.

[@RNG-999]

You'll need to wait for the cache to download completely. Do so by starting the client and waiting in the lobby while logged in. At the bottom right-hand corner you should see a percentage for the cache download.

[@checker297]

pretty sure jagex got bought, they are hiring chinese translators etc for a chinese release of runescape.. why the sudden push into the chinese market, probably has to do with that chinese mining company which im pretty sure just bought jagex.

[@crooks9011]

I've watched very few of your videos but i find them very well put together and interesting keep up the good work!

[@Coureano]

That didnt make sense at all, Will. You're indirectly saying that this will happen to osrs, cause it will never have EoC, and still, 07 has like 3x more players than EoC. There's no way one can convice anyone that EoC was a good change, it killed the game and splitted the community... Just think back about how the game was great and everyone loved it, with the "boring combat system", they could just keep releasing bosses like 07 does, Zulrah, wildy bosses and keep the game alive and awesome like it allways was, EoC was the worst change ever, and nothing will change that :c However, great video bro!

[@quietessv2354]

You miss the part where the microtransactions (that were already in the game, and growing) would've been a major reason behind the downfall? OSRS has already learned from RS3's mistake and has excluded these, which is why it has one less thing to worry about. It doesn't matter though because people are already complaining about how boring PvM seemingly is. The new boss on Zeah, forgot it's name, is literally just turn on protection prayers and smack it.

[@edvinasdryzas4235]

I agree with you

[@ExcalibursLPs]

if osrs were the only game that existed, then this would be true. however, since both osrs and rs3 exist simultaneously, osrs can have these changes that don't ruin the game, as rs3 travels more linearly as an mmorpg and osrs is intended for a certain player base and this can move more slowly as a game

[@thehiruko5808]

Are you stupid..? osrs barely has a few thousand more players. 3x???????? you seriously need to learn some maths, also many osrs players playe rs3 but they are maxed there and waiting for new content.

[@butterdies]

07 only has more players than rs3 cuz of the bots..they're very close numbers tho

[@plok742]

Pking was essentially as active as it is now as it was right before Eoc was released. I think pvm would easily remain the biggest player group and would probably diminish in numbers as the game went on with the old system. Another thing to consider is to what extent the "gains" mentality would be prevalent in the community like it is today considering not long after Eoc Suomi paved the way for 200m xp all skills. Honestly I think the game would probably be worse off than it is today and ironically 07 has probably helped rs3 more than hurt it as this point.

[@quietessv2354]

Suomi came before EoC, his mindset was influencing the community before even squeal of fortune was released.

[@zakariabouziane5682]

U should take a look about rs3 pking now bro it’s completely dead

[@plok742]

@@zakariabouziane5682 not surprising, RS3 in general is in a terrible state

[@zakariabouziane5682]

​@@plok742yh about a year and half ago they made an update where they killed pking completely and i quitted right after it but now i created an osrs acc that i pk on but still a noob tho i started osrs 1 week ago

[@majornewb]

EoC killed Soul Wars which was the best way to train combat. I stopped playing in 2012

[@icahk-]

Does anyone ´know the name of the song starting around 5 minutes?

[@Meekox]

Every game dies in a time, but Jagex sped up the death by releasing eoc

[@freepz4980]

whoa that is deep. KAPPA

[@pie101112]

so they sped up the death of their game by adding new content unimaginable with the old system?

[@pie101112]

+iam vete our bosses take far more skill to kill. all os gets are the bosses rs3 didn't want. enjoy that snake boss we voted against.

[@sir0swyn654]

It's on a slow rise because the addicts, like me, are returning. Lmao

[@cabbagedestroyer1693]

eoc won't kill rs. Microtransactions on exp buying will. Imagine if they release treasure chests in osrs

[@kailianglf2]

1:15 (paraphrasing) without EOC, difficulty is capped at Nex/QBD untrue; with Nex and QBD both dropping lv 80 equipment, there's 19 more levels completely untouched outside of Daemonheim at the time. granted, absence of the myriad of CC and escape abilities limits complexity of encounters on both PVE and PVP fronts, but there is definitely more room for raw power creep.

[@jonathanwhite8417]

First comment I've left on the many videos of yours i have seen! I have always been anti- EOC, but after listening to this you really have brought another perspective of what could have happened instead! Great video

[@rswillmissit]

Wow, must've made a great impact if it got you in on the comment section! Thanks dude! :D

[@osrsjeemo8151]

agreed.. i hated eoc but we would never have had osrs without it and both rs3 and osrs are great games in my opinion just not a fan os rs3

[@trisseus2302]

nice too see a video on this topic that was actually very well though out keep up the good work

[@thegreyknighttyr3658]

I know I'm wasting my time commenting this since it feels like I'm largely ignored in all mediums such as RS, facebook, youtube, etc. However, I enjoy these videos ever since I discovered them and so I like to weigh in. I really like the EOC. I know it can be weird and clunky for a lot of people and it made people quit cause it was different or "not as good" as the old combat system. Guys, I've been playing since 2006 Halloween event and I've been around for the Wildy removal, climbing boots, sof, and so on and I swear EOC is not the worst thing that's happened to this game. It makes the game's combat more inclusive and intense. You're not just switching gear and finding safe spots, you're moving around, using abilities, and it just looks better than just flailing your weapon at the enemy. It could have been implemented better, but the EOC is a decent update. Ok done with my post. You may thumbs down my comment/ignore it completely now. :)

[@rswillmissit]

Hey, thanks for the good words! I take it as a big compliment you make such a long reply when you feel like it's not being read. :P It's true though, EOC was never the worst to happen to Runescape. The community is very 50/50 on the update, and the great majority of the ones who did not enjoy it, went to OSRS. Problem solved! In the long-term, I do believe EOC was the best choice for the game. Oldschool was released because of it, and the two games are the reason the game will be alive for several more years. If one of them disappeared or never happened, we'd be in a much worse condition.

[@thegreyknighttyr3658]

Oh yes, I've been playing RS since middle school. It would be awful if it just disappeared. That's a huge part of my childhood. Lol

[@mightyblaster3320]

I very much agree with you on that. I was close to quitting RS before EoC came, and it really made me enjoy pvm activities again. Its much more involved, and theres a lot of unique mechanics that couldn't have been done without EoC. I also agree that it was implemented badly though, but I dont think there was much Jagex could've done about it. They needed to make it live, so that they could get the most accurate feedback from players of all types, not just the beta players.

[@Gamewizzz]

I've been playing for 10+ years and i have pretty much seen all of the updates from bad to worse. but EoC was just horrible. i have never witnessed such a huge mass of quitting. the removal of wildy was bad but that only affected pkers. EoC affected both pvm and pvp. I quit wildy was removed and came back. quit when dungeoneering was announced and came back. however after eoc i quit and never looked back. that update in my opinion was the worse. all of my progress just felt like nothing. osrs i have been on and off with it but tbh I'm not liking in the direction it's going and I can see it dying down very soon.

[@KrateKarrot]

This is a video explaining why the old combat system wouldn't be viable in the long term when OSRS has existed for 10+ years with the old combat system and has 5X the amount of players compared to rs3

[@ThePascal20]

im glad eoc happend just because we got oldschool now lol

[@parabalani]

Is it possible to kill vorago and arraxor in legacy mode?

[@Fridge_Fiend]

you need more people for rago but yeah and you can do arraxor but doubt high enrage. The new boss Telos is impossible without EOC however.

[@66msm]

rax maybe rago no because defensives are required to tank

[@JasonWilliams89]

Yes

[@66msm]

the more people u have at rago the more bomb tanks you need so doing rago with alot of people on legacy would make it more difficult

[@JasonWilliams89]

Mujtaba Meghjee You're wrong, I'm afraid. Rago is possible in Legacy mode.

[@alvarokeskkula2691]

What is this?! AlternateScapeHub?! On a more serious note, nice video :)

[@Spek4life]

I want the pre eoc time, right before that terrible new graphic upgrade of the new armor looks

[@ItsEveristo]

EOC Ruined Runescape for me, and I will never go back for that reason, Ive tryed to give it a chance without success, I used to play two MMOs and that was Runescape and World of Warcraft and I loved how different they were, the simple but captivating game play of Runescape and the more complex game play of WOW was the perfect balance that kept me paying for both these games monthly, I took a break from both game for about 2-3 months while I was traveling, when I came back I was Broken to find out what had happened to Runescape... I still play WOW till this day, but Runescape only makes me feels like I Wasted Years of my Life Building an account I do not recognize anymore.

[@simptrix007]

If I had the option I would play OSRS if I was able to preserve my account from back then. I wouldnt be willing to grind all the stats and quests from ground up. I hate to switchscape and running full manual to stay relevant.

[@markusajo5007]

can't we just directly compare osrs for no eoc? like how the unique bosses are there?

[@latibass]

We'd be stuck in a nostalgia shithole forever.

[@Collin93387]

If eoc never existed I'd probably still be playing. It drove me away pretty quick. My friends liked it but I hated it so much

[@snapdr4g0nz]

My only issue with the EoC is that it was simply unfinished on release. Legacy combat should have been a permanent system within the Wilderness and in Minigames, Special Attacks should still have been there, and Legacy combat options should have been there from release. The update came a little too soon, and should have remained in Beta for a little longer, and ffs they should've given us a reason for why the update was necessary rather than just releasing it to the community's disapproval.

[@mks2134]

That is the real issue most people have. EoC was such a huge train wreck on release. If Jagex had worked together with the community more, talked more, had Revolution there from the beginning, and possibly Legacy, it would have gone so much better.

[@Ursmoov]

finally someone said it

[@L33tSkyProductions]

this is the only comment that makes sense lol. its a shame that the community wouldn't have been split if they just didn't rush what could have been a fantastic update :/

[@Piraja27]

I blame players for not trying to make EoC better, only feed back they agreed to give was 'I hate it make it go away and I wont tell you why I hate it' They did say that EoC and pre-EoC could never co exists, they still do not. Legacy is still following rules of EoC eventhough EoC lost lots of its aspects of being the original EoC like how armor works and lifepoints.

[@mks2134]

Piraja27th / Mestasi Honestly, I believe it would be for the better if we could remove Legacy, but at the same time, as long as there are people who use it I can't condone removing it, as that would only split the playerbase even more.

[@brandonmcgillis]

I remember actually enjoying the time where they updated the graphics but didn’t have the ability’s. EOC might of been a godsend cause we most likely wouldn’t of got osrs . It would be very interesting to see how the game would of played out if they never removed wildy and free trade and never implemented EOC.

[@ducemirandamango6972]

EOC needed to happen and I'm glad it did , the game is much better now and it continues to evolve.

[@Fridge_Fiend]

Mod mark" alright we've got this exciting combat system lets fuck it up by adding tiny beams you have to dtand in with a click based movement system.

[@MMXIIISNIPER]

+Jetzido truueeee

[@realbanker6072]

How long have you played? 10 Years for me and EOC made me quit for 3 years

[@Fridge_Fiend]

Real Banker 8 years and eoc brought me back

[@Fridge_Fiend]

TE4L Eoc was definitely needed for new bosses. Made the game much better imo.

[@bobfrombilling]

For the most part, I like EOC, it adds a new layer to boss fights as you stated. In my eyes, there are two areas they should have addressed with the new implementation. They should have removed the combat tick system with the release (or at least made it faster). They also should have either implemented classic combat only in the wildly to preserve pking, or what every other MMO does and have weapon/skill stats be altered in PvP. Just my two cents.

[@YanlucasxD]

I love eoc, the old combat system ( osrs ) is boring af

[@dhamx4100]

i love this kind of vids will haha great job bro

[@JoeWuhPuh]

EOC may have 'ruined' Runescape in the short term, but it sure enough saved Runescape in the long term.

[@TheNateGatsby]

I completely agree. I still do wish they had worked on the combat system a bit more before release though.

[@randomdude9133]

i dont see how its saved for the long term lol. fukin 2 players per world

[@pqh1000]

Cause split player base is still a player base 2 games double the profit membership on eoc means membership on osrs, can we all just stop hating on both and enjoy them, I enjoy both versions

[@houseeater56]

randomdude9133 show me a world with 2 players

[@JoeWuhPuh]

randomdude9133 EOC is part of the reason OSRS released. Thats why EOC saved runescape.

[@blackcharas]

I’d still be playing RuneScape, maybe I would of achieved may 99s.

[@falconpawnch7]

I miss 2010-2012 Runescape. EoC killed the game.

[@northfront8451]

true

[@negativeenergy5603]

I want old school to evolve into RS2

[@Ub3rtim2]

So you want 90% of their updates to get deleted?

[@purpleice2343]

old school is RS2 at 2007 you idiot.

[@oDTRT]

Just play osrs

[@herygh4284]

i kinda like the EoC update, but the server lag or my connection often doesn't respond well with my skill use, so i can only realy use the auto skill rotation, i would probably like it more if the connection was more responsive

[@modmark1689]

Jagex kinda released op gear too quick and screwed up. They could of done a number squish or something and released some type of mini actionbar, with certain key abilities like incite and provoke.

[@simonarnold7936]

Pretty much. Never understood why they released the action bar and EOC at the same time. The action bar should have come first, and EOC delayed until it was properly ready. So you might not have been able to put abilities on the action bar prior to EOC, but food, pots, weapon special attacks, prayers, spells? Then once players had come to realise the benefits and uses of the action bar, adrenaline and abilities would have followed on later in a far more fluid manner.

[@spellthief4086]

Great quality content, ya earned my sub!

[@vertoalias]

I liked the video but it moved a bit too quickly and was difficult to keep up with, maybe if you explained things in a little more detail it would be easier to keep up with :)

[@rswillmissit]

I'll keep that in mind! I'm noticing that on other details aswell. It will make the videos longer in the future, but that might be for the best. :)

[@wiizzle1390]

+The Official Channel Of RSPS Lewis lol 13 years old you didnt play rs 07 you played in 2011 or maybe 2010 (im 13 to)

[@usingmytime729]

song at 4:34 plz i really needed !!!! thanks

[@kinglink15]

Loved this, MAKE ONE of if Guthix didn't die.

[@MaxYo]

This video was awesome! Keep it up my man

[@XrodGaming]

So EOC is a good thing?

[@gamereviewer104]

Not exactly but EOC did save Runescape in long term since without EOC Runescape would not be able to compete with other MMORPGs.That's why OSRS was realeased.If they didn't release EOC Runescape's playerbase would be dropping.Sure,it attracts some new players but without EOC there would be elites everywhere killing the noobs resulting in them quitting very quickly.

[@JavierPwns]

Lol no. Just look at OSRS, it has a higher player count than RS3. People don’t want RS to compete with other MMOs people played RS for RS, if they wanted something like other MMOs they’d go play MMOs. EoC is inferior to other mmos

[@jokered1133]

nice vid, i love some seriousness every now and then cos it inspires runescape players.

[@Crooked_Man]

Disliked because you said EoC

[@TO_ET]

Fuck off eoc is good

[@gamerpanda3590]

@@TO_ET That comment came out 2 years ago

[@xLionsxxSmithyx]

@@TO_EThaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaphhhhwaaahahaha you think EoC is good... that's a great joke.

[@p6n7l]

@@TO_ET fuck you then

[@Discokrieg]

I love how a 3 year old comment started a "no u" fight.

[@somethingcreative8369]

I couldn't keep a straight face until the nokia armor came up.

[@prestonwatkins8182]

When the EoC beta was first started I was extremely excited to see the combat finally becoming more entertaining. I've played RS for a little over 11 years now and have enjoyed almost every update to the game, adapting to the changes that are constantly made. I honestly couldn't wrap my head around the fact that players hated the EoC, and I actually have built up a bit of a resentment towards Old School elitists whose only argument against the action bar and ability combat is "It's like World of Warcraft now." Variety has always been RuneScape's strongpoint and Jagex had to implement the EoC in order to continue adding variety to the game. If that means losing a group of PvPers who would rather aim to become the best at abusing tick rates and weapon swapping rather than slightly more complex but more sensible stuns and combos then so be it.

[@wesleyg2403]

Tbh all you said applies exactly to RS3. Players are leaving it, it is elitist and totally not welcoming to new players, everyone is maxed/clanned up. RS3 is exactly the thing you described in this video, meanwhile OSRS is exactly the opposite of it. A fair balance between noobs/experienced players, welcoming to new players (since not everyone is maxed). Kind of ironic that OSRS will eventually surpass RS3, which makes it living proof that EoC truly is a bad bad bad idea, which indeed, in the end, hurt RuneScape FAR more than it would've benefited it. Imagine if the playerbase of RS3 and OSRS were combined in an OSRS game with RS3 graphics. Now THAT would've attracted far more people to the games than the split universe we live in now.

[@ahmedsamak1131]

eoc was something essential to the game, i've been playing since 2006 and i never liked old combat cuz it was not fun, unbalanced and RNG focused rather than skill, and like you said , it was essential to the game. players that quit the game would have quit anyways wether eoc was released or not, they just seemingly found a good excuse for themselves to quit the game rather than try and see that eoc is much more fun , they just assumed eoc being bad and quit the game. And also imo eoc is better for pvp as well, much more balanced and counter-able ,better than getting ice barraged then rip if im using melee , or any of the other unfair ways that ppl could have had died for. i just hope ppl give eoc a chance cuz its really worth it

[@Fridge_Fiend]

Eoc is too op for pvp imo as it creates a huge learning curve. Amazing for pvm though where its more forgiving to learn.

[@Puggernuts]

That's all good and well for you and the 3 other people who actually like eoc but no dude lol. They would not have quit anyways, what an ignorant statement. Most if not ALL of runescapes veteran fans prefer the old combat system.

[@nintendu64]

@@Puggernuts lmao this nobody plays minecraft for the graphics nobody played rs for the fucking intense button mashing combat smh games dead because idiots at jagex got greedy instead of listening to playerbase. If they did a linear poll of everyone on the game EOC would have lost by a landslide.

[@curtchrist8929]

I can't believe you have made me agree that Evolution of Combat was a required update... Mind blown.

[@gruntage95]

Three things to fix RS3 without removing EoC, as suggested by an OSRS primarist. 1) Remove microtransactions in the form of Treasure Hunter (and it's clones) and Solomon's. Bonds can stay, as they actually benefit the economy. 2) Remove the weapon tier system. Not every weapon has to be inherently better than all the others purely because it requires 5 levels more to wield. Example: Black Salamander vs. Dragon equipment. 3) Advertise Funorb more, because honestly - I miss the hell out of it.

[@mehiskortel6435]

Fully aware that this comment is 5 years old, but id like to know if you are still active on runescape? And if so, thoughts on the current state of both games?

[@alanoo176]

1:06 hang on since when was chaos ele a harder boss than corp

[@JohnDayguy]

Without EOC the game would still had that boring combat system and would be repetitive

[@drscaperune4391]

mmm yes...Although: 1. Community is divided into osrs and rs3 -> very few players -> not so filled worlds -> less minigame activity -> less fun in doing something for fun instead of grinding 2. Pking was very easy to learn pre eoc, if you step into wild right now, boy you going to have some problems trust me...And you don't have acces to some abilities ( can be gained as drop from raids/telos ) and that's an unfair advantage, so many weapons where you as newb that comes back, no idea has what they do. HOWEVER pking isn't about pure gear anymore, if back in 2012 you used a whip and he used a rapier, you'd lose, now it's about skill. If you both have good pking skills however again then the rapier guy will win ofc 3. The economy was a lot better. Yes you can say "oh but items that exist in the game for 9 years long are cheap ofc", well there are plenty of moneymaking methods with 4m/hour consistent, killing high level bosses goes a lot easier which brings more gear into the game. 1 hour of bandos is a guarantee bandos chest solo, imagine that on osrs.

[@BeatsByPento]

1. Pretty much divided into simple combat slower xp to complex combat faster xp. 2. Why is simple better in this case? The game was still losing players before EoC and they had a go at making it more like 99% of MMOs to become more accessible. The idea that abilities make it harder is a lie as again most MMOs have abilities and they weren't failures. 3. This point makes no sense. The amount gold is valued at has changed as well. Its called inflation. Ags was what 70-80m? for a long time. Nox Scythe is 253.2m at the moment. That's more than double the AGS and could make 2m/hr when Ags was priced that much. Even if new items weren't added to the game at all; the weapons and armour of old would drop in price as more and more and more come into the game. Supply and demand. Same amount of demand as new weapons don't get released but more and more people leveling up and killing Kree. The item will drop.

[@Trazerade]

Lmfao and half the game wouldn't have quit

[@drscaperune4391]

Vigilantiee 1.You have no idea what you are talking about. 70% quit after eoc, when osrs came back SOME people played that ( people don't want to grind over and over, some put years into their accounts ). it's osrs and rs3 two completely different games that have barely contact with eachother. It's about a lot less people playing than before eoc, instead of 120k on Rs, it's now 30k rs3 and 40k osrs. Playing with a lot of people is very important, it gives the impression that the game is powerful and attracts a lot of new people, nobody plays an MMO with 5 players. A huge playersbase is important for so many things, it gives more of a feel of accomplishment when you get a 99 and 50 thousand others don't, minigames are never empty, it's about fun. Did you even read what I said lol? 2. Dude. Everyone was used to the combat system for over 10 years. Not everyone wants to learn something new, so many pkers quit. It is harder lol, did you ever pk in eoc? you can't outeat shit, if you get deep stunned and you don't freedom, you're dead. your protect can be turned off by snipe anytime. Pre eoc was less hard, it was rng. People hated it, but loved it just as much. 3.Again did you read? Do you even play rs3 because then you'd know you can go camp any gwd1 boss solo and get a drop in 2 hours ( that's supply for ya ). It's about MORE items coming in the game than before eoc. Secondly a lot of items became useless after eoc ( that's demand for ya ): PvP armours, dragon claws, ags, spirit shields, Dragonfire shield... And you just picked the most expensive t90 that there is. drygore set is 30m. Ags is supposed to be a spec weapon, the t90s you use for everything Melee related. And that's tier 90 fam, everything lower is not 250m lol.

[@drscaperune4391]

TE4L hybridding is pking, and yes it takes a lot of skill and talent to do it, but there is still rng involved. You'll open your eyes in a fight on rs3 against the average warbands pker, it's not button smashing, that I can assure you :p before eoc it was just camping protect with proselyte on and rapier on your slayer task and that's it. Now you can choose what abilities ( single or multi type ) you'll use, if you go for a sunshine or wild magic...eh Don't get me wrong, I played rs3 for 4 years with a lot of breaks ( for a lot of reasons about the game, nothing else ) and I'd pick pre eoc any day of my life. My account is 5 years old but idgaf. Some people don't have the time to start over, and me neither really but again idc :p

[@ProductofWit]

I actually like EoC. It's excellent for bossing. I played Classic back in 2001 to 2002, and rejoined RS in 2014 (did check out RS2 on release as I did RS3, but never remained). A friend of mine got me to rejoin RS and it didn't take me a long time to get used to the new combat system. It was only later that I learned much of the community hate RS3. I think much of it is nostalgia and bias though. If you are high level in OSRS you're unlikely to have enjoyed high end RS3 content.

[@Noah-ov9zq]

The only mistake was EoC was that it was too poorly introduced and wasn't ready when it dropped. It was a necessary thing that needed to come and in glad it did (though I do wish PvP and mini games were more active). Awesome video as always as well

[@Piraja27]

I blame player base for it not being as good as it could have been.

[@nothingbutastupidshit4039]

I just wished they introduced it gradually instead of suddenly.

[@reade_me]

i agree with you piraja this whole player base is pretty stupid =/

[@roadtolife3458]

Blaming the player base is stupid. If you make an update the community doesn't like, it's a bad update. If you, on the other hand make an update that everyone enjoys, it's a good one. That's the ONLY criteria by which you can judge an update.

[@simonarnold7936]

Agree, it wasn't so much the advancement of the game's combat mechanics that was poor, rather the atrocious manner in which it was implement. If RS3/EOC had been put in a more staggered manner, when it was properly ready and tested, I think it would have had a better uptake. Something like: action bar with old interface > NIS > introduction of abilities > EOC > RS3 with gaps of a month or so in between each 'stage' and interactive tutorials at each stage, rather than all dropping like a huge nuclear bomb on the community, it would have been so much better. Because the EOC combat system itself, once you get to grips with it, isn't all that bad.

[@calemross2531]

Very good video fam. i enjoyed it. thanks :)

[@Kioh2]

This is coming from someone who's played since 2005, EOC was in no way the worst update to Runescape, if anything it was the removal of the wilderness and trade limit but I digress. I will admit that when EOC first came out I despised it, but with the balancing improvements they've added and revolution mode (the mode that allows you to automatically cycle through abilities) it's become very clear to me that EOC was 100% nessisary, even now in osrs the developers are struggling to avoid power creep and it's because of the limitations of the osrs combat system. EOC does not have this problem as it's diverse combat allows the developers to create side-grades to already BiS gear and it means certain a pieces of gear are more useful in certain fights than others. This also means a lot of this side grade gear is kept valuable too. I like the ability to choose if the combat is automatic while doing slayer tasks and then manually controlling it for boss fights, its great fun. Osrs may have the nostalgia grip right now but it's not perfect and that's becoming more and more apparent every time the osrs devs add a new piece of high level gear. Additionally the community of osrs are vile, just go to wintertodt to see what I mean, I returned to RS3 last month and here is how I summarise it. Osrs got the nostalgia and PKing but the true and friendly community of runescape moved with RS3. Plus as somebody who prefers group content and boss fights RS3 is my home now, friendly people, better balance, better group content and a good clan system. The osrs community made my nostalgic version of runescape something I just can't enjoy anymore and in a sense I thank them because I've enjoyed RS3 more than I've ever enjoyed osrs.

[@am1d]

Good, Go and play ur stupid rs3, you goblin boy.

[@yoji3789]

@@am1d stfu lol. He is totally right.

[@thunderbraindevelopmentser3264]

Hi, I started Runescape years ago, approx 8 months before the release of RS2, so i played classic for a good 8 months, not hardcore as it was a new game and i was learning the environment from scratch, and it was way more difficult then it is now, so i got to about 50 Combat before RS2. I played RS2 all the way to EOC, through the trade limits, through the removal of pking and addition of bounty hunter. I have seen so many threads talking about this, and i think we may be slightly off point. 1. Runescape Classic was about pking, occasional PVM and many skilling clans- but everyone wanted to be the worlds best pker. I never thought of becoming the worlds best woodcutter ever, anyone here? 2. Runescape has always been about the combat within the game, every skill or pvm attempt eventually results in applicability to a combat benefit or bonus. 3. Runescape originally had a PKer pyramid scheme, and still does even- if you are one of the unique people who love clicking a fishing spot for 500 hours, you are feeding the combat "pyramid", the ultimate peak of that triangle, is PVP. Its easy to solo bosses, even OSRS Bandos, is easy compared to a live player just waiting to bang you in the face with a gmaul combo. 4. I now play OSRS, because i miss the time when Runescape was at its peak! This is my choice, -game VS game to a NON Rs player, completely neutral person, they would vote Rs3 every time for obvious reasons. 5. EOC is a MUCH BETTER game for players playing RS for the 1st time ever. Runescape needs to compete with current games, so they don't emulate the "BBM to whatsapp shift"- EOC excellent job for the business going forward! Its not for me however, i like OSRS. And thank you for making the old servers available to us who choose the old version. As HARD Headed as we all are, all of us playing OSRS "WONDER" what the new game is like, we wonder what the new gear is like and wonder what the new bosses must be like.

[@Alic_R1]

I play Eoc, I have fun on Eoc. Still, I wish the update didn't happen.

[@legendarysixsamurai-shien402]

Well in the grand scheme of things the fact that the game is still running after 19 fucking years is a pretty big accomplishment....

[@C22772]

Osrs managed to avoid this

[@Itsmoraka]

I love turning on the auto generated captions on will miss it’s videos 😂

[@rswillmissit]

Hey now that's illegal sir

[@fcb7buc]

I think its good if EoC wasn't released neither would Osrs be

[@eemelikorteniemi3966]

are you saying that it is good eoc was released because osrs was released or that it would have been good if it hadn't been released because then osrs would've never been released?

[@fcb7buc]

Eemeli Korteniemi Im saying that I like OSRS better than Pre EOC

[@hashimi419]

I prefer pre-eoc honestly.

[@fcb7buc]

and that's fine man you can have your own opinion

[@Seldanas]

I quit Runescape until 2021 due to EOC, now I'm playing OSRS F2P

[@delbrs9249]

Well darkscape had loads of rax items in it... So not impossible

[@Piraja27]

Yes but as the video mentioned, no enrage system to keep players from farming it without making it impossible.

[@wallie6]

Yeah, darkscape was pretty cool when it was around. RIP darkscape.

[@Piraja27]

Wallie _ I logged in, saw it was legacy only. Logged out.

[@reade_me]

I loved darkscape ^_^

[@finalfanta15]

god i miss darkscape....ugh

[@samasaur6068]

i doubt there would be any squeal of fortune items allowed in PvP, they wouldn't even allow overrides in the wild when I still played and in old school clans do dominate but usually during certain times of the time and multi primarily. still very possible to go solo pking as the wild is very active

[@samasaur6068]

awesome video;

[@Celestial_Lunar]

there are dual rapiers you can reclaim if you lose one of them for free that are tier70

[@Piraja27]

You still cannot have cosmetics in wildy, except retro versions when you use the real one underneath it. You always could bring mtx items into wildy that are physical objects. They did this mistake with skilling item called Silverhawk boots. It made agility so unbalanced that they had to nerf and apologize for them. So yeah, Jagex might have done what this video said, release op weapons to mtx. Edit: forgot to say what weapons you could bring in wildy with mtx. The lucky weapons, lucky dragon claws, whip etc also armor like Divine shield or Bandos.

[@Celestial_Lunar]

+Piraja27th / Mestasi But mtx items are dropped in the wildy and turn into nothing even with pray protection on. and there is no way to reclaim them

[@Piraja27]

vbui16 That is actually only correct back then but they still are mtx items that you could use for advance in wildy. Would be only matter of time till they would have made more, which they sort of did but they aren't as strong, convinient though but not as strong.

[@Shmagalag]

In other words, EoC saved Runescape?

[@rswillmissit]

In the big picture, I would believe it did. Without OSRS it would be a different story, but as things went the way it did due to the EOC update, I'd say yes. :P

[@ciaranmullen6779]

i disagree considering the fact that osrs is more popular than rs3 but this is going of numbers which could be affected by the number of bots in osrs compared to rs3

[@rswillmissit]

ciaran mullen Oldschool would never exist without EOC. No Oldschool, no game to have more players than RS3. WIthout OSRS, no return of quit players, equals a less popular game overall. EOC saved the game. :)

[@BrownayRS]

Jagex foresaw this, that's why they released it against the will of the majority of the players.

[@tvkillsyoulol]

I believe that's false. If Eoc didn't come out, the player base would be as high as ever. The players that are on now are simply back from when they first started, yeah there's new players but as you showed photos of "pre-eoc" it clearly shows that PVP was bigger then as it is now. Jagex could of stilled fixed the bosses so they weren't op and could still introduce the new weapons. They clearly lost the players when eoc came out, from 200k to what 90k? That's a big difference.

[@deadlyshizzno]

Without EOC I guess we would never have had OSRS so I'm pretty satisfied with how things played out in the end

[@jordanwise5]

runescape would be dead without 07

[@ZanryuGaming]

This was well put together, but there's nothing to suggest that TH in a non-EoC game would be aimed at PvPers. The PvMers of the current game are the equivalent of PvPers in a non-EoC version, however despite this TH is aimed at skillers more than anything else. There's nothing that directly increases your effectiveness in PvP or PvM. If anything TH would be aimed at skillers even more due to there being a larger amount of them.

[@sarphog]

lolno, this is too much speculation to be credible

[@TheScroll]

There are no what ifs though. It is a theory, not just a simple speculation.

[@sarphog]

The Scroll Again, lolno. This isn't a theory, it is at best a hypothesis, which in essence is speculation. This whole video is a string of "if that happened, I think this would most likely be to follow", which I don't deem credible

[@TheScroll]

sarphog the only if I heard is the title. Everything else like Squel of Fortune, death of PVM, skillers getting richer etc makes sense to me. I consider it as a educated guess imo.

[@TheScroll]

sarphog Also, most popular games encourage P2W... Altho I kinda disagree with what Will came up with. The grind would be gone though like what has happened in RS3. There is high end content so that exp bonus encourages people to get to that high end stuff while being efficient with time. So in a nutshell, it encourages less grind for high end content, which a love for grinding PVP community like OSRS would not like at all.

[@TheScroll]

Exactly^

[@TheChaoticBlade]

Tbh, One of my most favorite things to do in RS3 is PvM to the point where my 4 highest skills (aside dungeoneering and invention cause lolcomp) are all combat related, All 3 combat styles and constitution, I can guarantee that if EoC never happened, PvM would be one of my most hated aspects in the game because it was so boring and repeatative, All my combat stats would've stopped at 99... maybe 100 cause of Slayer and future quests giving combat xp rewards, So imo EoC was one of the best updates we've had and I am glad we got it :D. Now I just wait for the huge amount of dislikes and hate replies to this comment.

[@arakken9081]

I love eoc it got rid of the cancer pking community, hence why os has such a cancer community

[@RNG-999]

LITERALLY the reason why OSRS is cancerous as fuck. Long live RS3.

[@clawno123]

+TheDevillChaser nerd

[@Ursmoov]

EOC pvp community is aids too

[@youtubeisgarbagesuckme]

It's also a lot smaller

[@nothingbutastupidshit4039]

+Smoov OSRS's community is literally just filled with the most cancerous elitists and you cannot even deny that. There was a guy who started the game a year before me, and he called me a noob for not playing back then.

[@michaelallen8662]

I understand your points about bosses getting increasingly harder without the abilities the EoC added to deal with them, however they could have just added Prayer skills, or an new skill with abilities to unlock that would help you with that problem... :p Other then that all your other points are very good and interesting :)

[@jermu7157]

I'm glad EOC happened. We wouldn't have osrs without eoc.

[@Kakashi42069]

So basically what OSRS will be in like 3-5 years?

[@bastion5686]

Thriving and successful with 100,000/110,000 players and world populations of 498-1800+ over 16 population eoc worlds?

[@checmate1633]

SMH never really understood the runescape community, literally after every second update there were people crying how this would "kill" the game. People obviously still dont understand that EOC was necessary to compete with other mmorpgs and to attract new players. As much as you liked the old combat system it was rather boring and well just old and needed to be modernized. You couldnt really make up new tactics which is a lot better with eoc now, it makes fighting bosses and combat in general a lot more interesting. But a lot of players dont understand that because they never really gave eoc a chance or tried it with a extremely negative attiude. Ofc everyone misses the old times in rs but jesus christ people have to accept that the game has changed and move on. Glad all the wimps are in osrs , a lot more peaceful having updates without riots every second update. The only thing that downgrades the game are MTX and therefore the pay 2 win crap.

[@alec952]

For awhile though EoC hurt Runescape more then it helped, more players were quitting then joining for a long time. Runescape almost died for a update that wasn't ready to come out yet. I personally believe they should of made seperate servers for EoC to see how it would turn out instead of only asking so many players to test the game.

[@simonarnold7936]

If they had phased in EOC, bit by bit, with a staggered implementation over a few months interval, I think it would have been better received. Dropping the EOC bomb in the way they did, threw too many players into a sink-or-swim scenario. I became one of the swimmers, but many simply threw their hands up into the air in defeat and drowned.

[@alec952]

Simon Targaryen Exactly, they could of brought EoC in a different way. It was poorly dropped in my opinion. I personally quit after EoC mainly cause i was a pure and it ruined my account and everything i had was pointless.

[@Microtardz]

I quit after Soul Wars died :|. Honestly, both OSRS & RS3 need more large scale *safe* PvP content, with some decent rewards. Castle Wars doesn't cut it, because it gets old after about 15 seconds. Soul Wars was great, because it was very dynamic. Trying to keep boss levels at a point where players could/couldn't attack it.

[@africaneedsdrugs]

Nothing is more evil than having an opinion.

[@jayhide2923]

if it didn't have EOC, i would be still playing the new one.

[@TheVesylum]

It's funny how you talk about it as destroying the game, causing player lows every year. But that's what happened WITH EOC. WIthout EOC there wouldn't have been the initial major drop in players either. PvM is the most popular thing in EVERY RUNESCAPE GAME, EVERY SINGLE DAY. The game would actually be thriving, rather than the state it's in now where there actually are no new players.

[@ACMunk]

Nice use of the full out corp war screenie :) Zer0 vs OTG in 2010 I believe.

[@eusoff3]

So you're basically saying that eoc is a miracle in disguise because it brought back OSRS?

[@kirkendauhl6990]

seeing that record low for players juxtaposed with that 6,069 players online made me literally shiver, I'd feel so helpless if I was one of those 6k people still on.

[@Mr_Glenn]

if EOC never existed I would not have came back. EOC is fun.

[@PS3productionz]

Always love you videos, Will. I have to say though, this is all purely hypothetical. Who knows what would have happened to Runescape without the EoC? All I know is that, regardless of what anyone may think of the EoC, it did give Runescape a second lease of life. It generated so much controversy and publicity that, from a financially strategic p.o.v, it helped the game entice more people to play.