Sail Life - LPG (Liquefied Petroleum Gas) aboard, part 1

[@christianlemee7696]

Xcellent ! I am a liveaboard in a 24 foot 43 year old French built plywood boat , moored in Køge Marina. Sold my. House, mooved out and stored my books and stuff. Feeling free like you Mads! Hope to meet you some day, good VDos!

[@bsdaemon]

While working at a local propane shop I remember more than once having groups of hunters stopping by on their way to Alaska in the fall. It seems that the butane systems they had installed on their RV was failing them in the chilly weather. At around 5C the butane begins to condense and provides no vapour pressure, without which you can't actually have a flame. We refitted them with propane, which has a boiling point of -37C and would allow them to make coffee on the coldest of mornings! In short, in Denmark heading into winter, propane is definitely the appropriate choice for you.

[@wilsnich02]

Hi Mads, We just mount our gas bottles in a bracket hanging off the Pushpit where it is outside and just vents over the side. You can get Stainless Bottles but my galvanised bottle is 20 years old (and has always passed the 5 yrly inspections). That way you don't need special vented storage lockers and can have bigger tanks.

[@nikolaychekan9861]

Hi Mads, Nice work! I would not worry about the final look of that box - it's going to be stored inside the locker anyways. Also, not to worry about butane not evaporating sufficiently to light the stove in colder temperatures. If I am not mistaken, it's an LPG that you will store in a canister. that is it is stored as a liquid. When you actually use the stove the gas will evaporate, cooling the liquid. Consequently, the temperature of the liquid butane can actually dip below boiling point of the gas, which will create a problem. However, your stove is unlikely to use so much gas as to cool off the liquid sufficiently. in the end, in the winter you can use a self-regulating cable to warm up the canister. those cables are used for defrosting rain water pipes along thr edges of house roofs. etc. I am not a big fan of electricity and gas in the same place, but properly done cabling will minimize the risks.

[@kiplingslastcat]

It's sooo good to finally see you "living aboard". I have said it before and will say it again, you have an infectious personality and it is a joy to watch you doing what you do. Also, as someone who has tried to learn a few foreign languages along the way, and failed miserably, I have to say that you have a wonderful command of English! (Oh, not to nitpic, but it's Butane, not Butan. lol... nitpic) Keep up the good work... I look forward, as always, to your next vid!

[@RailwayWorld]

Another nice upgrade for the quickly approaching winter ! That book "Milk & Cookies" distracted me just a little@ 3:00 LOL :)

[@froogal8887]

Hi Mads, Seeing you using the MAS epoxy in this video reminds me that I stopped by the Black Bear Boating stand (by chance) at the Southampton Boat show last weekend. The owner of Black Bear Boating is a really cool guy. We talked about the wooden schooners that they build, the reconditioned Saab engines that they install in them, and how you are getting on with moving aboard your boat. Take care.

[@SoCalSurfer69]

A number of cruising people make a mount on the stern using one of the vertical stanchion so the bottles hang over the side of the boat. I have also see them use a SS fender and a tall thin bottle that fits inside it and use a sunbrella fabric cover over it.

[@GoT_17k]

LOL with you on the umbrella defense Mads

[@redsnappersadler34]

Good job Mads. A boat next to mine had a gas explosion, and the burns two of the men suffered were awful. PS - Get out sailing when you have finished this!!

[@SailLife]

+redsnappersadler34 Yikes! That's bad! Burns are horrible. I'll do the installation to code and litter the boat with alarms.

[@passmeby9398]

Just for info: Meth = one carbon; Eth = two carbon; Prop = three; But = four. The "ane" just means a simple chain of carbon atoms with hydrogen attached.

[@jonathantan2469]

Natural gas is Methane & Ethane. It's what they use in the home gas supply from street gas pipes, & in cars marked NGV (natural gas vehicle). On the other hand, LPG gas is Propane or Butane. It's what is used in this video, cooking/BBQ gas cylinders, and also in cars.

[@brice5517]

A 3kg bottle should last between 1 and 2 months depending of your daily usage. To save on gaz while in the marina, you can buy one of those portable single burner induction plates. Very efficient and affordable.

[@passmeby9398]

Calling LPG butane or propane is a bit of a misnomer. LPG is a variable mixture of both depending on local laws and ambient temperature. The propane percentage can rise in the winter because of its lower boiling point. (for the same reason that gasoline changes formula as the seasons change) Natural gas is mostly methane and ethane which is lighter than air. LPG will "pour" into low areas like bilges and basements. A spark will easily ignite the vapor. The summer blend, high in butane, is more difficult to vaporize which may make it seem more difficult to light. Don't be "fueled" though these gases can explode when mixed with the right ratio of air (just like an internal combustion engine.) Sorry about going on here but this is an area of expertise for me.

[@SailLife]

+Pass Me By There is no need to apologize! Your comment was very useful :) It only says butane on the canister but after checking online it does seem to be a mix. There was no information about the ratio or if they change the mix depending on the season. I'll call the company to see if I can get an answer :)

[@rodrigoleonardo2597]

Instablaster...

[@youngypaul]

I am not sure about Daniel Pearson's comment about "Butane being lighter than air" Google said this... Butane. This gas is more commonly called L.P., bottle gas, propane, butane and various other trade names. Liquefied petroleum gases are all heavier than air and will collect in low places when not confined. Carbon dioxide (CO2) at room temperature and atmospheric pressure is a colorless, odorless, slightly acidic gas.

[@breehornsailor1193]

hej Mads, uh, that Gas is a topic. It is heavily discussed in every sailors forum. The grey propane bottles are much cheaper in germany, jut 210dkr for a 5kg refill. And in terms of security, a lot of "experts" are discussing on this. :) Nevermind, good video again. No words about your and your dogs feelings in the first days. How is your mood? best Michael

[@lifeislikesailing]

It will be nice to have that stove working properly and safely!! Have you thought about Carbon Monoxide detectors/alarms as well?

[@bakesail7541]

You can always get a grill for the guard rail! Of course, it may not help when it's raining...

[@pwijland]

Took my gas installation out of my boat this year because of a leak and ordered a Origo with an oven. However there was a fire at the factory so this will be delivered only somewere next year 😔. Good thing was that I saved on my insurance due to the fact that I don't have any gas onboard.

[@moejaime2654]

HI Mads ! nice to see you doing project so soon after moving in . I did not know that they made the type of fuel you are using in that configuration . I wanted to know if that type of fuel last longer then propane ? Also I wanted to ask if you have seen the way some boaters set up their LPG tanks by hanging them on the rails off the stern ? Its seem to me that that would give you space savings . Is it allowed to install tanks like that where you live ? Here in Miami I have seen it on some small boats with tanks on the stern rails. I know it looks ugly but if you don't mind it would save you a lot of space . I know that the tanks I have seen are aluminum or powder coated ; some even look like the life raft from far away . Just want to know your thoughts on this Mads, and if it could work for you ?

[@clidiere]

I've experienced problems with butane when just a few degrees below zero, with a bottle 1/3 full. I replaced it with a full bottle, and the problem went away. So I suppose it was more of an issue with the temperature of the bottle (thus pressure) than an issue with the temperature around the stove. The simple solution is to finish almost-empty bottles during the summer. Not a big deal.

[@razzorbladz]

also if you want a gas bottle onboard it should be outside perhaps under a seat in the cockpit

[@Bernster3040]

Great Outtakes!

[@dawntreader7079]

i think it's time to take that boat sailing.

[@ironjocelyn]

Interesting info about this topic. I'm only familiar with propane and alcohol stoves, so I learned something today! Nice to see Jøkull relaxing with you. How is he liking being a liveaboard so far?

[@ExpatMoe]

Perhaps usefull to get a cockpit tent before autumn weather sets in?

[@SailLife]

+ExpatMoe Very useful! It's at the top of my wishlist, but I'm a bit low on funds currently so it'll have to wait a few months :)

[@tobey1974]

Hi Mads. Why is it necessary to glue the box together with epoxy? Is that just something one always does on a boat?

[@jicahans]

My experience has been that weather forecasts are often not very toothful.

[@ItaliavsChile]

I am in the process of installing the oven on a b31 mk2 boat here in denmark, were can i find the regulation? Also i have a question about heathing, the refleks oven you have is great "66m", i just wonder how much money did cost in denmark to buy everything? I am in tuborg havn in sjæland !

[@christianrubek]

Nice video Mads! Have you considered making a rain shelter on your cockpit? I mean like a permanent solution, or is that not high on you looooong Todo list? ☺ ps. Super fede videoer! Glæder mig til at se hvordan det er at bo ombord i Danmark

[@SailLife]

+Christian Rubek Nielsen A full cockpit enclosure (cockpit telt in Danish) is at the very top of my wishlist :) Sadly all of my savings went into getting rid of the house without still being in debt. I hope to get a full enclosure in a few months :) Mange tak :) Vi er nu 6 både her i Skive. Det er super fedt og kan klart anbefales :)

[@nicksmith7552]

See you got a beard trim at the end of that video Mads ! Greeting from the interior of BC.

[@salt669]

Mads, why is there masking tape around the mast inside of the cabin, it has been there for a long time.

[@SailLife]

+john salter In short it's because I must have tuned the rig differently than the previous owner. The rubber blocks use to be held in place by the mast but now need a bit of tape to stay put. The boat will go on the hard in a few weeks and as a part of that I'll replace some wiring inside the mast and re-step it. Hopefully I'll be able to get rid of that unsightly tape ;)

[@nbadhorse]

To quote a famous line from a famous movie..... You're going to need a bigger boat.

[@SailLife]

+nbadhorse True! And that is the plan :) I'll live aboard my current boat for around 3 years to save up money to buy the boat that will take me around the world.

[@mjallenuk]

I always wondered if a non LPG stove is a good option on sail boats?

[@dsilver333]

Hey great video

[@AlexBaranets]

Why didn't you go with electric cooker? Cheers

[@youngypaul]

Looks like a good Mini project! Some things to keep in mind and I am talking from my experience with an LPG setup. (same same but different) 1. You should have a gas/fuel detector in case of leak after the bottle (i.e hose or stove) 2. I prefer to shut off my fuel source at the bottle after each use. This got tiring with a standard bottle and tap as the bottle was out side in a below cockpit seat hatch. The solution is to get a solenoid electric cutoff. You can turn the bottle off from the comfort and warmth of your galley, even if the bottle is located remotely. However this is all for LPG setup and I am not sure if the theory or fittings are the same for Butane bottles. But they are basically the same thing so I am sure the differences are minimal. They can be found here at defender - search.defender.com/?expression=propane%20solenoid&s=1

[@paulwyand6204]

weif the butane won't light you can use the heating stove for one pot

[@wimdreesen7923]

Hi Mads,I definitely recommend to apply the solution mentioned by Sander Mertens below, which is to use a heating blanket for the gas cylinder. (www.powerblanket.com/propane-tank-heater/ ). A butane gas cylinder will not be able to release any gas anymore below -1°C , a propane gas cylinder will do the same at below -43 °C. But that is the theory which is specific for the type of gas. It is not only a matter of these useable temperatures of the gas, there are other factors that play a role for a proper functioning of your gas stove. At first, the pressure regulator needs to have a minimum gas cylinder pressure to be able to regulate the gas pressure while maintaining a sufficient capacity (gas flow) to your gas stove. At cold outdoor temperatures this might be a difficulty. The second thing is that the gas pressure regulator reduces the gas pressure in order to guarantee a 100 % gaseous substance, instead of the pressurized gas liquid in the gas cylinder, which is called evaporation/expansion. But liquid gas requires heat to expand, which it obtains from the air surrounding the gas cylinder walls, that will get colder, and consequently lowers the gas temperature even more. This depends on the gas flow quantity : If you connect for instance a gas powered appliance that requires a lot of gas flow to a very small gas cylinder, you can even see in summer time that ice will build up on the outer surface of the gas cylinder wall, and the gas appliance will stop operating. So, the purpose of the above heating blanket is not only to keep the gas above a certain temperature, but also to provide the necessary heat for a proper evaporation of the liquid LPG, into gaseous LPG for your gas stove. The above explanation is also one of the reasons why (older) LPG fuelled cars were always started by petrol in winter. Then, after some driving time, when the engine cooling water was warming up, it was possible to switch to LPG because the gas regulator/evaporator in cars were heated with engine cooling water, providing the required heat to evaporate the liquid gas. Anyway, thanks for another nice video and I hope you will soon feel "settled" aboard the boat !

[@shanghaiakademiet3424]

Hvor fandt du “opskriften” på kassen?

[@judithnieuwland3611]

Hi Mads Thanks for a great video again! We just updated our gas installation to include a gas heater (propex) and we installed a gas alarm (www.force4.co.uk/department/safety/fire-gas-safety/gas-fume-alarms/pilot-gas-alarm-single.html) and a gas leak detector like this: www.gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/Marine_Gas_Leak_Testers__Bubble_etc_.html The detector is fitted within the copper pipe and shows bubbles when the gas is leaking. Our gas canister is an outboard-draining locker outside and we have a gas hob and oven, and now a heater as well. Oh, and we also have two valves to be able to shut off the gas: one in the boat and one outside, next to the canister. By the way: I once asked you for the make of your oil lamp and I am happy to say that I have been given a delite/sorensen oil lamp for my birthday! So thank you for that advice! :-)

[@jwhatter]

Apparently, we share the same weather forecasters...

[@sandermertens9592]

Hey Mads, I used to have a lot of trouble cooking in the winter aboard boats with propane. I had to boil water, put it in a bucket and set the gas tank in the bucket.... Otherwise there wasn't even gas flow in the stove! I solved it using something like this (www.powerblanket.com/propane-tank-heater/), although I had it built into the locker.

[@tedboender]

Wearing Jackets already? Ouch!

[@SailLife]

+S/V AIRPOWER Yup, summer is so last year ;) While I'm writing this it's 14 degrees Celcius inside the boat. Good thing spring is just 8 short months away ;)

[@moejaime2654]

Oops I think someone gave the same idea about hanging the tanks off the rails ! oh well guess it serve me right for being an "land lover sailor" !

[@peresrup5872]

Hej Mads,, jeg ved det er en gammel video, men jeg er igang med at lave gas installation i min Ballad, kan du ikke skrive dimensionerne på den gas kasse, jeg kan simpelthen ikke se dem i din video, det ville være en stor hjælp, også tykkelsen. mvh Per NB det er noget af et projekt du har gang i med den nye båd, held og lykke med det, jeg følger med her på kanalen. 😀

[@Mike2500able]

Mads, I know you have limited amount of space so check ou this video from starsloop kzbin.info/www/bejne/mKGTaayonMdnaas He has found a cool way to hold extra fuel and it's pretty easy and cheap.