Atheist Debates - Atheist/Christian dialog, Matt Dillahunty and Michael Suderman Part 1

[@j.rayredden1528]

Even as a child I considered "god" an absurd proposition. After 67 years I have neither seen nor heard anything that has changed that.

[@ramommeke]

J. Ray Redden / i can understand that. I had the same. I literally compared the existence of god with the existence of Santa Claus I’m 37 now! And I’ve never believed in Santa. I only see the reasons for not believing in the existence of any god pile up.

[@machintelligence]

@@Karla Jordan I guess I was born a skeptic. Before I was 10 years old I found that, while the existence of a god was debatable, the idea that such a being would want to be worshiped was absurd. Do I care what microbes think?

[@8BitZ0mbie]

i was about the same age when i came to that conclusion. Nothing has convinced me otherwise since that time. it still seems a preposterous proposition

[@8BitZ0mbie]

@@utopiabuster except that you were indoctrinated into that position. you didnt come to the conclusion of jesus without intervention from those around you. its not inherently obvious that jesus came from nazarath without reading a book. there is no way you even could have come to that conclusion if you didnt read/were told about, the bible. if all the bibles magically disappeared instantaneously, no one would come to that conclusion.

[@ramommeke]

utopiabuster 2017 / nope. You were taught that god is an existing concept. And then went on to live your life finding out if there is truth in that proposition. You didn’t get born knowing about the concept of god and refuse to believe it. That’s simply nonsense. It’s a nice way of justifying your beliefs. But it’s not at all the same from both sides. Nice try though.

[@GenuinelyQurious]

One of the best talks I’ve listened to! Matt articulates exactly the things I’ve been subconsciously feeling for years.

[@sbnwnc]

Any updates?

[@martman123456]

Who let the gods out?! Zeus...Zeus...Zeus, Zeus!

[@redpillpusher]

martman123456 LOL

[@DBCisco]

lol

[@alexandert696]

Do not blaspheme against Zeus you infidel !!!! Wait wrong religion..

[@DBCisco]

@@alexandert696 lol, Alex !

[@QueenBoadicea]

Loki thinks this is a trick.

[@TheOddSavants]

Absolutely amazing answer to the very first question Matt. Thanks for being a great representative of all of us!

[@veganatheistandmore]

This was a pleasant conversation. Thank you Matt for your work, it is greatly appreciated.

[@kimchi.88.]

The qs in the beginning were a great way to create and relieve tension. I quite enjoyed that back and forth!

[@DBCisco]

Agreed, that was a nice icebreaker.

[@kimchi.88.]

Android of course!

[@basher4828]

me too actually! great insight!

[@kimchi.88.]

@Neil Mcintosh Athiest

[@evolutionisbull5h1t]

@Kimberly D Why did you become or decide to call yourself an atheist? What kind of atheist are you exactly? What really sells you on that? Why not just call yourself an agnostic?

[@EmperorsNewWardrobe]

Loving the ‘get to know you’ questions at the start to soften the one-way apocalypse later

[@joshuashepard583]

I always skip the "tell everyone who you are" sections. I'm about to spend two hours listening to who you are. lol.

[@starlaminde8436]

I take it without finishing just started to watch, Matt won?

[@dontbeculty2117]

Very enjoyable discussion! I love how friendly both sides were! Of course it's always great to hear Matt speak.

[@AllenIsbell]

Matt was the only one actually answering questions.

[@DutchJoan]

29:28 The very first serious question about the meaning of life, why we are here. At this point Michael Suderman does exactly what Matt asked not to do: fill in what you think that the other person thinks/feels/experiences. Michael "compares" his view with Matt's, not even knowing what that view is. Just already assuming his experience of meaning of life exceeds Matt's by definition because "God". *This was not the question!* I'll watch the rest of the video, but I've already checked out in my mind. Edit: Matt's honest and direct answers have brought me back. Matt is right: with or without God, we have to do the work. Michael begs the question quite a few times and appeals to emotion in my opinion. He doesn't offer a satisfactory answer to any of the three questions, he doesn't make his relationship with Jesus real, it's all theology.

[@badgerbush3556]

CH2517Joan That's religion in a nutshell. It offers paradise after death with no evidence and at the cost of your morality and ability to make sense of the evidence we find in the world and universe around us. To believe you must ignore evidence to preserve belief. Its organised insanity.

[@victorruiz7359]

Badger bush the second book of the Maccabees ~170BCE gives us one of the earliest references of an eternal life after death. And is no where near the bronze age writings of El

[@djb903]

As far as I know, I've got one life to live, so let's cooperate and be nice to each other.

[@HappyHippieGaymer]

That is in all our best interests if we want to continue living that one life to the fullest.

[@ulfhazelcreek8108]

I really appreciate the laid back format. Should be more of this in all different types of public debates, especially in politics. A few questions, time to reply in depth. And the sitting down is great. Also, mr Dillahunty rocks.

[@e.jamesshepard7183]

Nice to know Matt actually has his own thoughts and Michael has no thoughts of his own.

[@NathanFree84]

I just don't know how Matt does this. These people just talk word salad, they say a fuck ton without actually saying anything at all. He has the patience of a saint.

[@captainzappbrannagan]

Matt you are at the top of your game here. Clear concise and well explained. I don't understand how you don't convert theists en mass.

[@josecastro7436]

Just goes to show you how powerful religious indoctrination is.

[@IAteTheCannoli]

It's because of the potency of religious thought. People can become so indoctrinated that there is no hope for them getting out.

[@captainzappbrannagan]

@@IAteTheCannoli There is always hope.

[@starlaminde8436]

I’m sure he has….but they won’t admit it and continue to pretend

[@justlookingaround9834]

For all the people saying that Matt didn’t come down hard enough, I’m 42 minutes in and just feel he is finding the correct level of discourse for the audience. I assume as the host is a Christian most of the audience might be.

[@deadpiratetattoo2015]

Skin in the game? How does a god suffer physical pain? Ludacris. A bad weekend. How does someone getting beat up benifit me? It doesn't. The whole story is just crazy.

[@JMUDoc]

Worse - the god MADE IT SO that he would have to get beaten up for your benefit. "I can't forgive humanity unless something perfect dies... I know - I'll incarnate myself and sacrifice myself to myself so I will be ABLE to forgive humanity!" Er... WHAT?!

[@deadpiratetattoo2015]

@@JMUDoc hilarious. Let's not forget he knew what was going to happen and did it any ways. What a dick

[@JMUDoc]

@@deadpiratetattoo2015 He's a loan shark who tells you you owe him money, pays himself that money, then expects you to be grateful. And if you're not, you'll end up in the torture chamber he built.

[@deadpiratetattoo2015]

it is baffling how self deluded religitards are. They have to know that book is b.s. Noah's ark? A talking snake? That whole garden of Eden fruit story. Don't eat that fruit. Create us knowing we will eat the fruit. A fruit that we couldn't have known was wrong to eat. Its the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil for fucks sake. Eve couldn't have done anything wrong. Sheer didn't know what wrong was. It was a setup. Then he sacrifices himself to himself, and that somehow helps me? Fucking nuts. You have to really ignore a lot of shit to buy this crap.

[@stylis666]

@@deadpiratetattoo2015 To add more to the pile of shit, time is experienced logarithmicly and pain is relative. Meaning, that if you are 3 years old and just enjoyed x-mas, it is another 3rd of your life before your next x-mas. That feels like forever. If you're 30 years old it takes 1/30th of your life and that feels like it flies by. Now imagine you already lived forever. How long does an earthly weekend last in your experience now? Not much of a sacrifice is it? Death and a weekend in hell for Jesus was not even comparable with a pin prick for us. It wouldn't even compare to a fingernail tickling your ballsack for a femtosecond. On top of that, god could just reincarnate again and again if he enjoyed life so much, or make more sons if that was the sacrifice, or change the rules, reset the universe, make himself invulnerable, forgetful, etc. etc.. There simply was no sacrifice regardless of what happened.

[@benjammin8184]

This was very chilled and respectful. You need a break now and then from a formal setting to relax. This helps us understand eachother in different ways. I'm quite disappointed that Animal from the Muppets didn't pop up in the background and bash out a drum solo.

[@tcain4734]

Matt killed it at the end. If this guy was on a phone call with Matt he would've been cut short because I can hear how Matt would respond to everything he said. Well done Matt

[@charlesdarwin180]

"It's really a dialogue, not a debate." Really? I'd say, anyone defending supernaturalism needs to defend that position with evidence. Let's listen and find out.

[@redpillpusher]

same ole song from christian side. But as annoying as it may be it’s good to continue to have these discussions so that it’s readily available for the next gen and anyone on the fence to watch. the theist side will preach to the choir while the atheist side will enlighten everyone else specially those teetering on the fence.

[@wompbozer3939]

Super cool intro. It’s refreshing when you have mutual respect on both sides. Even Matt looks like he isn’t pissed at all.

[@sunmustbedestroyed]

Suderman seems a nice and sensible guy, but I'm astounded he actually believes such nonsense. Just give it up, dude.

[@khanhminhnguyen7274]

I disagree. I don't believe that a fervent Christian like Suderman can be considered a sensible person. No body with a deep sense of compassion and humanity can be all right with a god who would allow non believers to be burned for eternity simply because they are not convinced of his existence. Regardless a person's characters, not worshipping Jesus = being burned in the lake of fire forever and ever. I can never see a devout Christian at that level a nice person. It is simply a mask to hide their sadistic intent.

[@Human-gc2yt]

@@khanhminhnguyen7274 sure they can. Matt was once a Christian until he came to his senses. As was I.

[@khanhminhnguyen7274]

@@Human-gc2yt I believe that people are responsible for their own thoughts and action. I am not convinced that people like Suderman are victims of indoctrination. Just because people have a religious conviction does not mean they cannot think independently unless they don't want to. I myself am religious, but I am capable of thinking for myself and never undermine my humanity to worship a supernatural dictator. When an abstract idea supersedes humanity, engaging in that idea makes that person dehumanize himself.

[@Human-gc2yt]

@@khanhminhnguyen7274 I agree with all of that.

[@Human-gc2yt]

@@khanhminhnguyen7274 would you agree that Matt dilluhunty is a sensible person?

[@vincentparrella3424]

Great dialogue,I think the respect factor was awesome,Thanks Mike and Matt .

[@tomnanD3]

Faith, hope, and trust are not synonymous. Faith is not a virtue and "person of faith" is not a compliment. Faith, by definition, is belief without evidence.

[@CleastIntwood]

@@verumestmundum4006 You're ignoring the second definition: "strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof." Also, what's a "peer reviewed dictionary"? I'm not very familiar with how dictionaries are written/compiled so maybe that's a real thing, I've just never heard of such a thing before.

[@CleastIntwood]

@@verumestmundum4006 No problem, regarding the correction! It was a genuine question. :) Could you explain what a "personal entity" is? That's a new term for me (english isn't my first language). Is this true for all sects of christianity?

[@CleastIntwood]

@@verumestmundum4006 I think I see what you mean now. A "person" (in a sense) but not human? And yes, denomination is what I meant. Thank you!

[@xnoreq]

@@verumestmundum4006 Well that's just BS. Are you seriously trying to hide behind a most pedantic and deliberate misunderstanding of a single dictionary definition? The point of the above dictionary definition is not belief in doctrine per se, as you try to hide behind, but the belief in the content of the doctrine, i.e. the claims that gods exist, that magic exists, etc. That is to say having religious faith is having faith e.g. in the Christian god, YHWH, Allah... Dictionaries also contain this definition: faith: The process of forming or understanding abstractions, ideas, or beliefs, without evidence, experience or observation. So it's exactly as the OP said: the kind of religious faith we're talking about here is belief without evidence.

[@xnoreq]

@@verumestmundum4006 As for trust. Sure, you can put as much "trust" into Jesus as a child puts into Santa that he will deliver the wished for presents. It's called gullibility / belief without evidence, i.e. religious faith.

[@biglazyhunt]

I think Michael represented his beliefs honestly. That being said Matt was excellent. Clear, consice, considered, consistant. Well done! Thanks for putting this up

[@CommieApe]

Hell yeah time to light the Dillablunty while Matt destroys somebody with some reason and logic

[@jayparkerTBAS]

Match? Lol

[@BeardslapRadio]

Can we stop talking about ‘destroying’ each other, it’s a bit juvenile - this is a civil discussion, not an online deathmatch.

[@mr.blonde1709]

WORD. Im not the only one who watches these religious debates while LIT.

[@caramel7050]

matt pwns CHRISTARDS with FACTS and LOGIC 😤😤😤

[@deadpiratetattoo2015]

Best way to listen to Matt logicise.

[@staceylikesthelogicalthing8042]

I liked that this was a discussion, rather than a shouting match. Great job, guys!

[@vegasflyboy67]

Do you need to be convinced your mother is real? If a god wanted to be known we would all agree, there would be no convincing, there would be no doubt. There would be no need for the middle man, the preacher, the apologists, you could have a real relationship.

[@evolutionisbull5h1t]

Let me ask you this, does every rich, powerful, famous, and extremely intelligent person in our society walk up to you, shake your hand and talk to you? How do you hear about them and how do you begin to communicate with them if you want to? You seem to me like your an atheist, are you one? If so why did you become or decide to call yourself an atheist? What kind of atheist are you exactly? What really sells you on that?

[@DontCallMeAaron]

EVOLUTION IS BULL5H1TdotCOM The fundamental difference is that we can verify that those people exist. They actually do things and we can see that. We also don’t think they created the universe.

[@aspacelex]

EVOLUTION IS BULL5H1TdotCOM Having a good reason to think that someone exists and communicating with them aren't the same thing. What religion is it whose god isn't interested in / incapable of reaching out to everyone?

[@FuckFascistYouTube]

I legit had someone (a complete stranger) tell me (online) the other day that Jesus was communicating with me directly through him. I asked him basically the same thing addressed in your comment - why God/Jesus don't reveal themselves to everyone in a verifiable way... and that was his response - Jesus *IS* communicating with me! And he's doing it through this complete stranger I've literally never even seen or met in person! Not gonna lie, I couldn't argue with him. Long story short, I'm a believer now! Lmao. People are silly

[@vegasflyboy67]

@@FuckFascistKZbin You could argue with him, you simply took his word without question. This is how people are fooled and taken advantage of. If the god can talk to him it could easily talk to you or anyone for that matter. It's really that simple. This is why the god always agrees with the believer, because it's a meme that is the person's ego.

[@GerardoValenzuela]

Matt has to be one of the best speakers of have ever heard. Takes complicated ideas and is able to explain them so that they can easily be understood.

[@ToxicTerrance]

Matt: "I'm a mind reader" Everybody in the room: "Clearing neurolnet history.."

[@alcapirobi2915]

That was corny.

[@tjwreds1]

I'm a fan of the dialog format. Please continue these in the future. I suppose there is still a time and place for formal debate, but It seems a difference of tradition, method and formality. Dialog method is the new sliced bread of the god/no god conversation.

[@kylefromthewood8829]

Him: I have a degree from Oxford. Me: Oh wow. Impressive Him: In theology. Me: Oh wow. Nevermind.

[@mzavros]

LOL! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@kevykev2]

Lol

[@nevadataylor]

@atheismISbullshit Thats all you got? Ad hominem attacks?

[@vincentflannigan2727]

@atheismISbullshit You could probably say why you think so

[@vincentflannigan2727]

@atheismISbullshit Im pretty sure Matt has said he would love to debate Craig a few times. If you could start a petition to get that going that would be awesome

[@dennisheffy3220]

Preaching has no place in a debate.

[@jessebryant9233]

Philosophical bias has no place in a debate.

[@lamaar8252]

Sigh... Nothing new from the Christian Side. #AppealtoEmotion

[@FuckFascistYouTube]

What were you honestly expecting?

[@antediluvianatheist5262]

@@FuckFascistKZbin Maybe some creative repackaging? An interesting philosophical argument?

[@FuckFascistYouTube]

@@antediluvianatheist5262 Honestly I'd rather hear a theist spew the same tired arguments verbatim than try to "repackage" it. At least they'd appear more honest that way. Theists should either own their shitty, fallacious arguments at face value, and admit they are garbage, or just drop them entirely. You can polish a piece of shit for centuries, but at the end of the day, it's still a piece of shit.

[@antediluvianatheist5262]

@@FuckFascistKZbin That is an excellent point. Though in terms of intellectual execise, kinda dull. But different people get different things out of these debates.

[@FuckFascistYouTube]

@@antediluvianatheist5262 Yeah I hear you. I get different things from these debates. I do like a good Dillahunty/Giunta debate every now and again. It definitely changes it up. It does get old watching theists get obliterated time and time again lol. Unfortunately, those seem to be the majority of debates though.

[@thickerconstrictor9037]

It truly baffles my mind that in modern times people can still believe in a God. But then again it baffles my mind every single day I go on social media and see people that are completely oblivious to sarcasm, completely oblivious to videos that are made strictly to be funny and sterical and that people watch a video and automatically assume it's true when not only is it completely obvious that it's not true but a 15-second Google search will confirm that it's not

[@FinneousPJ1]

"Matt is the president" If only

[@OCDTraci]

Regardless of what you do (or don't) believe, I think all the men (including the moderator) were very respectful. Well done on both sides.

[@kwabenabempa7893]

Michael easily slips into preachy mode

[@starlaminde8436]

All theists do when debating Matt…it’s all their ignorance knows.

[@shawnmarrier6340]

As i venture more outside the reality of life and away from religion, it becomes so clear to what faith did to me. TheraminTrees, a KZbinr, has an upload called "copying enemies | the after-effects of abuse". In it he quotes Benjamin Franklin when he wrote "He that lieth down with dogs shall rise up with fleas", And that is exactly what happened with me. I brought with me some of the arrogant ways religious people have. I know I hurt people with how i viewed them, how I talked to them, and how i interacted around them. It has been so refreshing to come out of a judgmental personality. I have met more forgiving people outside faith than I ever knew inside Christianity. Thank you Matt, for being one of the top four in opening my eyes. Yourself, Christopher Hitchens, Link aka TheraminTrees, and my brother has been the keys to my new life. I tip my hat to all of you.

[@Redhunteur2]

Don't feel alone; your story sounds quite a bit like mine and many others. I am honest enough to recognize the person I was when I was a god believer and that person was not someone I am proud of. I am embarrassed at how much I allowed people to manipulate me, but I now understand that they--being victims of the brainwashing themselves--did not mean harm to me and thought they were looking out for my best interests, just as I thought when I did those things to others. It really is like a vicious cycle not unlike sexual abuse where the abused may become an abuser. Shawn, feel proud of how far you have come from those depths you used to find yourself in so that you don't see how bad you were, but how much you have progressed. If there are such things as "gifts" that we have, I think they are created by us, despite our setbacks and traumatic instances. They are a badge of honour; a testament to what we are capable of when we are honest and seek actual truth. Only when we are honest with ourselves does the veil slip. And while what we see is not always pleasant, I have pride in that what I see is real and true and I am happy with that reality. Wonderful to hear your story and thank you so much for showing others what is possible. I wish I could thumb your comment a thousand times. Cheers!

[@nollattacykel]

Suderman preaches all the time during the question regarding evil. Interestingly, when he brings up India and slavery, he should consider what his ancient book says about slavery in Exodus.

[@CC-td7si]

Also what did he go to India to do exactly?

[@ephramwalton]

What is the meaning of life? I will just repeat my sermon from last Sunday.

[@Trevor_Austin]

dee - There was a Monty Python film that explained that.

[@zilmore5712]

This world is not my home just passing through

[@evolutionisbull5h1t]

@dee This life is a test, that depending on how you do on this test, will effect where you go next! You seem to me like your an atheist, are you one? If so why did you become or decide to call yourself an atheist? What kind of atheist are you exactly? What really sells you on that?

[@jinxy72able]

The glass is always full. It is just half full of water, and half full of air.

[@SnuggLeona]

Actually its more accurate to say its always 99.9999999999999 % empty :P

[@andyrains5687]

I always say it's twice as big as it needs to be.

[@nitehawk86]

Engineer's view: The glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

[@davepugh2519]

When asked to name his favourite superhero, I'm surprised Mr Suderman didn't say "Jesus"

[@deadpiratetattoo2015]

The tap dancing this guy does about the after life is hilarious. His flock is at stake.

[@Lou13Cyf3r]

that's how the charlatans operate

[@jessebryant9233]

So? If atheism is true then folks can do whatever they like. If it works for them, it's good, right?

[@deadpiratetattoo2015]

@@jessebryant9233 you can do whatever you want anyhow. I kill as many people as i want to. None. If the threat of hell is all that keeps you for being a sociopath then you have serious problems. " If it works for them it's good"? How do you get there from; " you can do whatever you want" to it being a good thing? Quite the stretch.

[@jessebryant9233]

@@deadpiratetattoo2015 Yep. And? What's your point? Are you saying there is such a thing as 'good'? So what is 'wrong' with being a sociopath? Dude, you just indirectly assumed objective moral values and duties. But that's not possible without an objective point of reference that exists independent of the human brain! _I'm afraid that you are not being rational or consistent! You're stretching it bud._

[@deadpiratetattoo2015]

@@jessebryant9233 in saying there is no such thing as "good". That was your comment i was quoting. You strawmaned that last part. It's easier to mock something I'd you misrepresent it. You assigned a value to it. I don't know any athiests thatwould agree withthat last part. Dishonest.

[@houssamghabra7222]

Matt, (OH MY NATURE) how beautiful your words are. you are great person.

[@ncooty]

A bit surprised to hear Matt talk so much about _what_ he thinks rather than _why_ (epistemically). Also somewhat surprised that his approach veered toward a debate/ adversarial tone toward the end--something I thought would put the audience on the defensive rather than effectively achieving the goals I might have had in his shoes.

[@nitehawk86]

All the others seemed interested in was "feels over reals" so the usual epistemology wouldn't work so well.

[@DBCisco]

Sooooo, the meaning of life is to devote your life to a Bronze age myth and an imaginary friend ? I prefer reality.

[@TheFunGun5]

@Justin Morgan You've fallen into the basic theist trap of equaling purpose with value. Human life in immeasurably valuable, to say otherwise is psychopathic. Just becasue it happened by random chance dosent change its value. What changes when you disregard the theory of a god is you free yourself from dualism. Your singular precious life, the only one you get, becomes infinitely more valuable. And no, your fallacy regarding it being meaningless is exactly that. If you work hard and build an empire your generations of family will live well. If your a monster a kill millions humanity will collectively despise your name forever. People don't last forever, a legacy will good or bad. And your orgy or holocaust comment is hilarious. Maybe stop trying to equate godlessneas with chaos. Just becasue their is no grand plan out for mankind(meaning we don't have free will) does not give free reign for chaos. Humans invited laws long before gods.

[@DBCisco]

@Tim Smith Which God ?

[@TheFunGun5]

@Justin Morgan Sorry but I'm not falling for this theist trap. If something I said went against your statement bring it up yourself and counter my comment. I've addressed your points to the extent I thought necessary. Im not going to write both sides of this argument, do your own work.

[@TheFunGun5]

@Justin Morgan So your taking the psychopathic line of reasoning then. But to address your point the very reason that life if precious if becasue it ends. Life is finite, and anything in short supply is always intrinsically more valuable than that which if infinite. But I'm not going to argue the worth of human life with you. You've already established that you'll go to any lengths to prove tha god=worth, even if it means saying psychopathic things like "life has no value". Good day, keeps bowing to that immoral sky wizard, its already comprised your morals anyways.

[@TheFunGun5]

The morning dew on your yard, while maybe having numerous single celled organisms residing, is not sentient life. But thanks for showing me just how far you'll reach and how low you'll go to keep this going. Theres a joke here somewhere. "Whay does a theist and a nihilist have in common?" But I digress, thanks again for showing everyone else here as well just how off tangent you'll go to prove your "point". We're done.

[@portaccio]

Christians love asking what is the meaning of life/what is our purpose, but I want to know why, if god did indeed create us, why did god create us? What does he want? Company? Does he want us to praise him? WHy? Is he lonely? Are we just sentient tamagochis, a play thing for a super intelligence? Why did he create the earth and all life on it?

[@TshaajThomas]

Get more education.

[@heckle9]

We are created so that "god" may exist. You likely would have come to see the same conclusion based on the questions you write in your comment.

[@jeffnarum1373]

I am a big fan of Matt. If I had to guess what his answer to the "biggest misconception" question, I would have been wrong. His answer was very well thought out. It was advice, to both believers and non, about how to have a conversation. Thanks Matt, for showing me to think beyond the conversation.

[@Hasse23]

6:33 That Dillahunty is the Android guy is a big bonus

[@xnoreq]

He worked in IT after all. No sane person with IT knowledge would choose Apple.

[@FinneousPJ1]

@@xnoreq I've worked in IT consulting and many ppl have iPhone

[@xnoreq]

@@FinneousPJ1 Consulting? LOL. I may have expressed myself poorly but I was talking e.g. about software development, i.e. people that don't just get paid to say smart sounding things but actually have a clue and have mastered a craft.

[@FinneousPJ1]

@@xnoreq I'm afraid you have no idea what you're talking about. The cyber security consultants whom I worked with were extremely knowledgeable.

[@xnoreq]

@@FinneousPJ1_"The cyber security consultants whom I worked with were extremely knowledgeable."_ So knowledgeable that they picked a proprietary and closed-source system with known backdoors over which you have no control over an open system where you have full control? Yeah... I rest my case.

[@russellh9894]

I recommend watching at x1.5 speed. At least the very beginning part.

[@Lou13Cyf3r]

atheism IS NOT A "worldview". fairytale magical wizards are irrelevant to the world and dude needs to quit preaching, just answer the questions outright like Matt does. I understand his paycheck does depend on it, but quit the preaching, supposed to be having a conversation.

[@egilsandnes9637]

Agreed. But as soon as you group people by what religion(s) they have, weather you have 0, 1 or more (ok, that would be silly), you end up by categorizing atheism as a world view togeather with religious people. It's better than calling atheism your religious view anyway.

[@Lou13Cyf3r]

@@egilsandnes9637 I can't see it like that. atheism only has to do with the idea of an invisible magician who is everywhere (and nowhere). that's it. everything else we see in nature seems to operate without it

[@Katalyzt]

Exactly... Well said RoAcH812 ;O) Katalyzt

[@egilsandnes9637]

As I said, I do totally agree. I think people use "world view" in lack of a more approriate term.

[@Lou13Cyf3r]

@@egilsandnes9637 i would agree also. may sound wierd, but I think it's more of a "life view" maybe. does that seem more on point than world view??

[@MinhPham0407]

I realize that it is impossible for apologists to discuss/debate the topic of god without preaching. Matt presents what he thinks, Michael gives sermons.

[@ianyboo]

44:30 he gives the Christian response to suffering and evil. I have a question based on his response. I magine if God created two identical universes, Adam and Eve, the garden, the snake, everything identical down to whatever level is necessary. Both universes have free will. So... Is it possible for Adam and Eve to freely choose to not sin and does God know which universe this will happen in? If yes to both. Why didn't God just make THAT universe instead of it's twin?

[@disciplinarydisability9108]

That's a pretty good question. I'm going to keep this in mind for my next Adam and Eve discussion,

[@ianyboo]

@@disciplinarydisability9108 thanks, I think it might be original. At least... I've never encountered it elsewhere and I came up with the scenario on my own. Use it as much as you can! A follow up I sometimes ask is "which is the better world?" Forcing a believer to usually admit that the one with sin, our world, is actually the better one, the one that God wanted to happen from the start. Meaning suffering and evil were always part of the plan. Hope that's useful :) And if any Christians read this please please give me some feedback on how I might improve this question or what I might have missed. If there is a strawman in there let me know!

[@Hexalobular]

That is a good question but omniscience and free will are incompatible, no matter how much Christians claim that God is outside of time that explanation fails as soon as he "inserts" his knowledge into the world. Peters three time denial of Jesus is a perfect example, if Peter (not to mention the Romans and the rooster) have free will then Jesus can't know he will deny him exactly three times unless it's already happened, which means it happened without Jesus saying it would, so god has to reset time so it can happen again with Jesus predicting it, but then he's changed the situation so it might not happen exactly the same that time, so another reset, but if Peter really has free will he might act differently even with the same starting situation so God has to keep resetting time until they get it right.

[@bonnie43uk]

Good question. Here is another thing to ponder and a question I've been asking Christians, Q:Could God have created this planet without shifting plate tectonics which result in terrible earthquakes, which, obviously result in the deaths of thousands of people, including babies and children? I've yet to hear a coherent answer from any Christian. Also, a tag on question, why did God create insects and microbes which give us things like Malaria and cancer? what's that all about?

[@Redhunteur2]

I thought of that in regards to heaven. There is supposed to be a place of pure joy and bliss without death or suffering, AFTER we go through life on earth. Why not skip the earth and go directly from a lovely garden to utopia? That's because it's fake and reality isn't like that so they make up an origin story and make up an ending that hasn't happened. It's clearly nonsense.

[@ronaldmendonca6636]

HEY! You started with MY idea: Soft questions at first. You forgot, Beatles or Stones?

[@christopherianlister5212]

the problem of evil rules out an all knowing, all powerful, loving god you can only have 2/3., but it's of little importance as the point remains that god hasn't shown up.

[@QueenBoadicea]

1:03:20 What surprises me is how Mr. Suderman speaks as if decent social, political and personal reform, scientific advancement, hospitals, et al., only came forth because Christianity was the source and cause. (That’s an interesting look at history; I’ve never heard that from my teachers in school.) He lightly brushes aside inconvenient or unpleasant facts about how Christianity may have been also the cause of horrors in the world: the Inquisition, Salem witch trials, the Crusades, Children’s Crusade, St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre (part of the War of Religion [1568-1592]), the Holocaust, Queen Mary’s persecution and execution of Protestants, the systematic torture and/or execution of other heretics in Europe and America, etc. (Moments of weakness? Cute euphemism, that.) It’s as if he’s stating, “Yeah, there have been some bad things but all the good that has happened outweighs all that!"

[@victorruiz7359]

Thirty years war. You forgot about all the "good guys" fighting "good guys" in Ireland as well. What about all the thousands of slaves that died under Hebrew law. I think god kills over a million people in the world because he knowingly made things that would rebel from him.

[@Captain-Cosmo]

The atheist was very kind to the Christian. Michael is a nice guy, but he's a complete lightweight with no coherent argument to support his cause.

[@andyrains5687]

Just shows a university degree doesn't bestow intelligence.

[@gerardtrigo380]

I would love to have Hitchens here to answer that man's response to evil is "not how it was meant to be," and "Jesus brings hope."

[@eddycherestal8208]

Hitch might be gone, thank go...... I mean goodness we have Matt.

[@veganatheistandmore]

I was just thinking the same thing.

[@afishinsea950]

don't say thank god whatever you do! make a big big change!

[@evolutionisbull5h1t]

@Eddy CHERESTAL @ vegan atheist and more @Ka Sc "don't say thank god whatever you do! make a big big change! " (You shouldn't say the phrase "goodbye" either because it originally means "God be with you"!!! Do you believe your life, body, family and the ground you walk on are all a gift or something else? If you believe they are all something else then what do you think they all are then?)

[@peacelove6632]

Eddy CHERESTAL it’s true, he’s in spirit the continuation of Hitchens in so many more ways than Harris or Dawkins or Krauss. Love him. And I believe in God, though I am a Hindu.

[@evolutionisbull5h1t]

@@peacelove6632 How could you like this person even though you believe in God? Do you only believe in the Hindu pantheon of Gods or do you believe in other Gods as well?

[@bearpio92]

Matt makes more sense and with clarity in one sentence then the other guys whole paragraphs.

[@thajarin]

The framing of these questions really lend themselves to long answers from the Christians... Matt seems to struggle to find any thing to say at all. Most of them do not have much to do with not believing and none seem to be about the evidence for believing despite the claims that this Sunderman is some sort of thinking man's christian.

[@Hitch11]

I see "dillahunty" in the title and have to click. Then I see the cowboy boots...alright let me get a beer. Here we gooooooo

[@hewasfuzzywuzzy3583]

HA! They put their drummer in a box. They definitely don't like drums in their "worship music" all that much.

[@RikardPeterson]

That comment makes me assume that you're not a sound engineer. :)

[@wbdill]

It's to prevent sound bleedover into other microphones because drums are acoustically loud.

[@L0NGHA1RB0Y]

Sometimes stick swingers got so much spirit You can lock em in a box and you still gon hear it

[@rembrandt972ify]

That is where they put the chicken wire. Those Christian crowds get wild.

[@victorruiz7359]

It has no ceiling its no box

[@ManicPandaz]

I've always thought the whole "what the meaning of life?" Question is like "what's the meaning of stone?". Neither has some non contextual meaning but each have possibilities.

[@CommieApe]

48:53 Appeal to emotion incoming 49:32 So because Yaweh chose to come to Earth they're more likely to exist? Even if they die here its of NO consequence to "God". so no God doesnt have "skin in the game" Lastly other Gods have become mortal for some reason or another so nice misrepresentation of other religions to make yours seem superior

[@Trevor_Austin]

A civilised discussion. We will all become wiser if this how we talk to each other, even if we disagree with the other’s fundamental beliefs.

[@tomnanD3]

Religion is silly.

[@oscarmstudio432]

This was a much more wholesome debate vs the discussion between Nye and Ham.

[@killax1000]

17:30 wow, I would not be able to sit there silently while he said faith doesnt mean faith.

[@NZCombatTV]

There is a difference in the question what is "The meaning of life" and "The meaning for Life". The question "What is the meaning of life" is really a none question or the wrong question when trying to justify a reason for existence. "What is the meaning for life" is easily answered "reproduction". A "meaning of life" can only be answered as a thought of wishful thinking and fantasy. Thus the question "What is the meaning of life" is subject to your faith or belief.

[@monsterram6617]

Those chairs look oddly small and uncomfortable.

[@Imrightyourewrong1]

They took the chairs from the Dillahunty and Harris discussion and shrunk them.

[@edwinicogo5022]

to prevent the debater from sleeping.

[@monk4258]

After watching many debates from different atheist and religious folk i no now why people get sucked into religion, because one side of the argument makes you fell warm and fuzzy and the other side is cold ass facts.

[@DBL6Domino]

You can hear at 46:00 he started getting really preachy, and I started getting really annoyed.

[@anthonyanello1244]

Unfortunately we as people turn this into a battle because we have egos and want to be right and want everyone else to believe what we do. When it turns into a battle, no one wins. Also unfortunate is that this happens in life where Christians and Atheists battle it out by focusing on the broken acts that everyone does. Even though I am a believer and a Christian, I can certainly sympathize with those that are not. For those that haven't felt or seen the presence of God, I hope that someone in your life can share love to you in a way that reflects who God is.

[@jeromesavary7033]

Theists suspend REALITY to believe in a FANTASY

[@jeromesavary7033]

@Bluemonsoon are you dumb???

[@user-zb8tq5pr4x]

@Bluemonsoon No, that's not what he's saying.

[@stevephillips8083]

Very well said, Matt. Thank you. I know I can’t see into the future, personally. Seems others can ;)

[@ramommeke]

Matt did such an amazing job! Beautiful debate! And this Michael seems like a great guy. Very honest !

[@rationalmartian]

Yeah,he seemed like a reasonably nice bloke. However he pretty much is it seems limited to simply preaching and leaning on emotional appeals, everything else amounted to little more than white noise, as Christopher Hitchens would say. I find it difficult listening to seemingly rational, educated adults making baseless bald claims, making definite statements when in reality they are merely guessing and talking such vacuous, vague papp and dross. The poor guy is indoctrinated and brainwashed to the point of delusion. I do find childhood indoctrination so extremely distasteful and repugnant.

[@ramommeke]

rationalmartian / we can hear in his responses that he doesn’t see god as an actual existing being. He sees Christianity as a concept which brings people closer together, and a concept that does good in the world. He even said some things which directly indicated that he knows that god isn’t actually an existing being. Like you say: Indoctrinated poor guy

[@benjammin8184]

@@ramommeke Okay I just ate a dictionary. My bad.

[@ramommeke]

Ben Jammin / should’ve eaten a Bible

[@benjammin8184]

@@ramommeke I'm bullshit intolerant, haha. :)

[@NZCombatTV]

This is by far the best debate I have seen regarding God vs no God. It's a shame though that Micheal drops back to a presupposition and slides back to evangelizing when answer questions

[@davidbutler1857]

12:00 That whole 'you secretly believe' is a real common one.

[@johncnorris]

Matt was a good guest. I suspect he would have liked to offer a few more counterpoints to Michael's pronouncements.

[@Felddagryph]

The Greek gods also entered into, interacted with, and had skin in the game, That's just one of many examples. Michael is either incredibly ignorant or being disingenuous. I'm inclined to think he's honest but ignorant.

[@andrew_35]

It's also weird that he thinks christianity is the only religion that promises justice after death. Don't nearly all religions have some version of an afterlife?

[@andrew_35]

It's also weird that he thinks christianity is the only religion that promises justice after death. Don't nearly all religions have some version of an afterlife?

[@chillster9119]

I actually kinda like the way they started this off, however it feels almost like marriage counselling

[@CC-td7si]

It's the host too, very fake calm preacher voice

[@rickibristowe3458]

If I can live my life only to see 'this' God die by my hands, Then my life was worth living.

[@marcsoucie4010]

A refreshing change from the usual pugilistic dynamics of a classic debate.

[@christian53050]

Michael makes long rows of bold assertions...

[@jinxy72able]

Matt I hope you do a review of these (part one and two), seems there were somethings Michael and some of the audience said that needs to be addressed.

[@jonathangeorge787]

I have never asked this but how does God die? Jesus is god but he dies. And then he comes back. If he comes back how has he sacrificed his life? Doesn't coming back negate the "sacrifice". Why have I never questioned this when I was Christian? This whole thing seems like a poorly written story.

[@GuitarDog_atx]

Blue, it's not that complicated. jesus didn't have to give up anything. You don't get a refund for this "sacrifice". It's especially stupid since god is responsible for it all anyway. It's not our fault you base your life on a fairy tale. "Xtianity - because you are so awful you made god kill himself"

[@Cynnas]

@Bluemonsoon oh look, another mind-numbingly stupid theist who would rather arrogantly throw insults and not answer a simple valid question.

[@GuitarDog_atx]

Blue, I don't presuppose god's existence, but you do. I don't claim to know anything about your shitty god other than what's in the bible. This isn't really complicated - you believe and worship and evil god, but you claim he's good. And then you and your ilk influence the political direction of the country. If you didn't believe in shitty gods you wouldn't be on an atheist channel. If there is a god, I give him/her/they more credit than you do. I'll say it again, you can't defend your pro-rape, pro-slavery, pro-genocide god. He's totally incompetent and the average person is way smarter and more moral than his evil ass is.

[@JeramyRG]

@Bluemonsoon He gave us the power to know.. Intelligence creates Intelligence; to say you can't know or won't know. "With the intelligence I give you, I ask thou to deny your rational thought that, again, I gave you; and believe in me through blind Faith." - Jesus Your thoughts are.. ironic.

[@aquillafleetwood8180]

Jonathan George...Christ had a painful and bloody death! By raising from the dead, it showed that we too will be raised from the dead!

[@ketumii8373]

Matt Dillahunty is such a great debater.

[@MickeAndersson67]

Matt is indeed brilliant. But Hitchens is greatly missed.

[@andyrains5687]

Upon the shoulders of giants.

[@evolutionisbull5h1t]

@Micke Andersson You seem to me like your an atheist, are you one? If so why did you become or decide to call yourself an atheist? What kind of atheist are you exactly? What really sells you on that?

[@MickeAndersson67]

Two possibilities. Man made gods, or God made man. I find lots signs of the former. But not a single evidence of the latter.

[@Blazingbiskit]

@@evolutionisbull5h1t how come you spam replied to every comment thread with an unrelated cookie cutter uninformed question spree? And then didnt respond for three whole years??

[@PretiumLibertatisEstVigilantia]

So Matt just made Christians to become just a little more secular. This guy just moved his goal post to agree with Matt on the idea that people should care for each other here now as if there was no afterlife. This guy agreed.

[@HumanisticJones]

"It was the Catholic Church that started up orphanages." Yeah, lets go over to Ireland and have a conversation about Catholics and their orphanages.

[@user936]

Never heard the Lucky Sock analogy before. I might have to steal them 👀

[@nogod7184]

Whenever a theist/priest/pastor speaks, I always struggle to stay awake.

[@loyisog4795]

You’re allergic to bulljive

[@gemmi08]

Watching this now. Will comment more when done....or during

[@Berbs73]

I love Matt. He gives me hope for humanity.

What's the deal with the (unnecessary) introductory questions about paper or plastic, cats or dogs? The host is trying so hard not to make this conversation awkward and as relaxed as possible that he puts forward questions like this is some kind a beauty contest.

[@ephramwalton]

Yeah, went on too long.

[@str8todamoney]

I don't see anything wrong with it.

[@cmack17]

Michael is speaking gibberish.

[@nitehawk86]

His tactic was "ignore everything Matt says and deliver a pre-planned sermon"

[@youngandsuccessful22]

Damn Matt destroyed this debate before it started lol