Sardonicast 136: Puss in Boots: The Last Wish, Shazam! Fury of the Gods, The Prince of Egypt

[@cameron2069]

Ralph is currently busy working on an eighteen-hour video essay detailing the landmark Italian representation in The Super Mario Bros. Movie.

[@zeebooboo9663]

Man I wish.

[@glitchesandglitter]

Ralph was finally arrested after his GTA style crime spree

[@ShadowRubberDuck]

Or maybe because his mic has finally stopped working

[@MichaelMan2000]

@@ShadowRubberDuck Bro was just on mute the entire time

[@1997residente]

The Rock not allowing to have a Shazam cameo in Black Adam and insisting to fight Superman is hilarious to me. Like bro, You signed to play Shazam's main villain. Imagine playing Magneto and not wanting to fight the X-Men. You insist to fight Punisher instead.

[@matttriano]

Because the actor who plays punisher had big opening weekends

[@soapbiter36577]

As crazy as that sounds we also have a venom film franchise that doesn't have spider-man

[@meciocio]

The Rock biggest power fantasy is to play a superman-like character in a superhero movie. There was obviously no chance for him to play Superman because of his skin color(the reasoning in his mind) so he seen those fan art of a decade ago portraying him as Black Adam and was like "Hmm, that's close enough" He doesn't care about Shazam or the lore, or comics in general. He just wants to be on screen with this symbolic american character, Superman, and be shown just as powerful as him.

[@kinhamid9665]

What they're missing is that god's existence is never questioned in Prince of Egypt, thus making whether people believe in him or not not the goal of the story. The religion is simply the backdrop, not the message. As an atheist, I fuckin' love the film.

[@waywardlaser]

You guys are ignoring the entire brotherhood aspect of the Prince of Egypt....the heart and soul of the story.

[@RickRaptor105]

Adam's take on Prince of Egypt being propaganda to scare children into being good-behaving Christians is an issue with churches and schools making an event out of any bible-based Hollywood movie, not an issue with the movie itself

[@Nicole-kc1vx]

He claims that yet its an old testament story, had nothing to do with Jesus so can't claim it forcing kids to be good-behaving christians. Moses is the main prophet for Judaism, more important for Judaism than christianity, so it's more so Jewish propaganda than Christian.

[@diamondinmyeye6160]

The movie still chose what to include and how to present it though. It's ultimately the director's choice, but I agree that any attempt to be faithful will become fire and brimstone.

[@equu497]

Adum letting his socio-cultural views get in the way of a film? Never...

[@tenki_]

@@equu497 normally it's never an issue, but i can excuse him on The Prince of Egypt as immaculate as it is, it's an adaptation of a fundamentally controversial source, i can't really fault him for his opinion, even if they're completely wrong and he should have his KZbin film critic license revoked

[@rouge939]

@@equu497 what’s wrong with that? Would you also call out someone who’s religious for liking the movie?

[@ezgames6925]

What’s crazy about The Rock as an actor is there’s literally a clause in his contract that states that he he should not lose a fight on screen. Meaning we cannot see a power struggle with Black Adam and that automatically feels like a non starter for a super hero.

[@shawklan27]

His ego is too much lol

[@duskplains1235]

I think he’s past the point now to do something as impressive as John Cena playing a character that challenges his perception like Peacemaker. He will still keep his presence and media power even if he has a bad movie though, which is his main goal.

[@derekricaurte3837]

@@cookieface80 i'm pretty sure him vin diesel and jason stathum had it during fast 8 and that's why they had huge production problems on that movie

[@1997residente]

Even Arnold Schwarzenegger left his ego aside by playing a Batman villain. The Rock is not Arnold: He is Steven Seagal with Will Smith D.N.A

[@firstnamelastname816]

Listening to Alex hesitate to refer to former podcast guest David F. Sandberg by name and instead calling him "the director" is one of the lowkey highlights of this week's podcast

[@somerandolad]

It's oddly endearing in a way.

[@georgewootten4428]

qrd?

[@pablonchas]

@@georgewootten4428 Ralph and the director had a big fist fight prior to this podcast, Ralph lost and was severely injured hence why he couldn't appear on this episode. The director then proceeded to threaten Adum and Alex (notice the fear on their voices when talking about the director)

[@georgewootten4428]

@@pablonchas woah hang on really??? that's crazy!

[@SkiBat64]

​@@pablonchas lmao

[@Transmission_Rory]

Okay, so there are a lot of things in their criticism of The Prince of Egypt that I just vehemently disagree with. I'll try to address them in this comment, though if you have any rebuttals, feel free to add them below. *The use of CGI* I'd say the 3D in this blends well enough with the 2D animation. Maybe the basket flowing down the River Nile would be the exception, though the texturing on it is a lot more detailed than some of the other films around this time that tried to blend CGI with traditional animation (You can make out the individual weaves on the basket, compared to something like the CGI used in Anastasia or Quest for Camelot). *"Rameses is an idiot"* He's portrayed in the film as dedicated to retaining his empire and legacy by pursuing any means necessary. The first act establishes the control his father has over him; putting a lot of pressure on him to not only continue the dynasty but to top his father in terms of legacy. Like God, he can be vengeful when humiliated or not getting what he wants. Not to mention, loving and full of rage at certain moments. Unlike God though, he's a mortal man who views himself above others, seeing the Hebrews as less than human (Which is thought to him and Moses at a young age), living a decadent and overly lavish lifestyle while the slaves live in squalor. His stubbornness and pride are ultimately his downfall, losing everything but a fallen kingdom all because he doubted the possibility that his Gods aren't real. Despite his determination and bloodlust at the climax, he cannot beat the "one true God", ultimately living alone and crying out to his now departed stepbrother on the other side of the sea. *"God is kind of an asshole"* Given Rameses' enslavement of the Jews, whose empire is built on their suffering and his unwillingness to grant them freedom, which leads to boils, famine, and eternal darkness, you understand why God resorted to drastic measures to get him to relent. The film doesn't glamorise the fact that the firstborns are dead, Moses is regretful that it had to come to this, breaking down crying outside the palace and feeling forlorn when he arrives back to the slave village. *"Every song except for 'Deliver us' is forgetful"* Really? So "Heaven's Eyes", "My People Go", or "When you Believe" didn't even seem distinct or memorable? Stephen Schwartz knew what he was doing when composing each track, the man has had experience with The Hunchback of Notre Dame in writing for animated films. Each song has a purpose in the story, the lyrics help communicate the central message that the film is getting across; that it's better to see yourself as equal to your fellow man than above them. Granted, I'm not a fan of "Playing with the big boys now", but for the rest? They live rent-free in my mind. *"It's scary and fucked up"* This is more a subjective take for me, but I think it's good to scare kids. Back then, films like The Witches or All Dogs Go to Heaven had scary moments to show the reality of life, that it isn't all sunshine and daffodils. I'd say kids’ films are neutered in what they can't show nowadays (Puss in Boots TLE is a good start, so let’s keep the gravy train rolling), so there's nothing much to prepare them for the real world. Yeah, some of them went too far like Watership Down and Zemeckis' Christmas Carol, but I'm going to remember them a lot more than Minions or Trolls. There's no way you can water down the ideas of genocide and plagues in this adaptation, I respect that this film doesn't talk down to children or treat them with mittens in tackling this subject matter. *"This film is propaganda"* Hearing them discuss this and how Adum was shown this in church makes me think that this problem lies with those who were showing him the film, not the film itself. I mean, I had to watch Casablanca for Leaving Cert English. I can acknowledge that the film is objectively good, even though I’m not fond of it. When you compare Prince of Egypt to some other Christian films like Pure Flix or Passion of the Christ where they focus on the wrong aspects of religion (Using strawmen arguments and focusing on how Jesus died in Passion's case), its leagues above them and more effective. They knew that "story is king" when adapting this religious text, adding in a human element that modern audiences could relate to (Moses and Rameses relationship is given a lot of complexity in its conflict). “Treat others how you'd like to be treated”, “don't be a greedy bastard”, that's it, that's the lessons they're getting across for people to take in. By just widdling it down to "Fear God or else", it just overly simplifies what the film is trying to say. *"It takes itself too seriously"* I'd say the film balances its tone well enough. Act 1 has a lot more of the light-hearted capers and jokes with the chariot chase and the "no one will notice" gag. Not to mention, the comedic moments land when it feels organic to the character and environment. Aaron's neurotic lines about "enjoying the work" feed into his fear of the higher-ups, trying not to incur the wrath of the Egyptians. Once Moses learns of his true origins, the tone naturally changes to being dramatic. It knows that the mural scene, Moses accidentally killing the slave driver, burning bush and final plague are moments that don't require a quip or mocking tone to "lighten the blow". This is a story about the Book of Exodus, it's a tale that means a lot to the three Abrahamic religions (Even if it was banned in three Muslim-dominated countries). There's a reason we hear the phrase "biblical proportions" used to describe stories like this in tone. *"They're trying to be Disney"* No, not really. According to the behind-the-scenes, Jeffery Katzenberg pitched an Exodus adaptation to the company, with them rejecting it. When he left to create DreamWorks, he met with fellow co-founders, Steven Spielberg & David Geffen, in Steven's living room. Steven said to Jeffery: "You ought to do The Ten Commandments". Does it have some similarities with a Disney film? Sure. But to say its sole existence was to "copy Disney" does it a disservice. I'd say it was trying to be "better than Disney", which it accomplished. *The High Priests being superfluous* While I'm not a fan of the High Priests in the film, I get why they've attained the position in the palace. To quote South Park: "What's better than telling people a stupid story and having them believe you?! Having them PAY you for it, stupid!". Of course they'd be tricking the pharaohs for so long, they've got a cushy spot in this palace. *"None of the performances stood out to me"* I'm not the biggest fan of celebrity voices in animated films, but a majority of the cast in Prince of Egypt bring a lot to their characters. Again, not a fan of Steve Martin and Martin Short as the high priests, they're there to play themselves if anything. Yeah, you could say that about a lot of the other actors here, but hearing Jeff Goldblum's voice coming out of Aaron's mouth feels right, it adds authenticity to the characters' nervous, timid and at points, sceptical nature. Patrick Stewart brings an elegance and authoritative tone as the pharaoh and Ralph Fiennes is just killing it as Rameses. He can be compassionate and heartbroken when required, but menacing and bloodhungry as well (That "great cry of Egypt" monologue he gives is pure thespian, you buy that he's going to wreak a terrible vengeance over his empire). Lastly, I didn't even realise that was Val Kilmer as Moses. He too brings a lot to this performance, with you realising the evolution in his character as the film progresses. He starts as boastful and easygoing, but later on is stoic and determined. The choice to have him (As well as a combination of other actors) being the voice of God is a neat choice from a production standpoint. It shows how people interpret God as they see him, with all of us having a different experience. *"The story kind of sucks"* Has anyone noticed what they don't discuss in this episode? The conflict between Rameses and Moses; the central relationship that creates the drama. It's the best part of the film since it has put the legwork into establishing how hard it is for these two to be enemies. They have newfound responsibilities that are at odds with one another, even though they act like how real brothers would (How Rameses is joyful to see Moses again after his exile to the desert). One stays within his royalty, the other renouncing it for a better future. The lyrics in "Heaven's Eyes" reference this: _"A single thread in a tapestry_ _Though its color brightly shines_ _Can never see its purpose_ _In the pattern of the grand design_ _And the stone that sits on the very top_ _Of the mountains mighty face_ _Does it think it's more important_ _Than the stones that form the base?_ _So how can you see what your life is worth_ _Or where your value lies?_ _You can never see through the eyes of man_ _You must look at your life_ _Look at your life through heaven's eyes!"_ I think I've gone on long enough. To be honest, I was expecting them not to be too fond of this (Adum especially since his IMDB ratings are up before the episode's release), but I wanted to hear why. Hearing it though makes it come off like they couldn't make out the forest through the trees, focusing more on nit-picky problems. The Prince of Egypt is a masterpiece to me, but not devoid of flaws. I've listed my own problems with the film, but they don't detract from the greatness that lies within. It's easily Dreamwork's best film, both from a technical and storytelling aspect.

[@Skateowlcreek]

Well, Adam’s favorite guy is Michael Haneke, great director, but borderline boring films. He’s a hard sell for something like this.

[@andrewheaney4874]

THANK YOU! I 100% agree with everything said here. The film isn't flawless; my biggest problem is the jarring difference between the singing and talking voices, as well as some songs not being as good as others (looking right in the directions "All I Ever Wanted" and "Playing With the Big Boys Now"), but it is a masterpiece to me as well, and the best DreamWorks film. Their criticisms were surface-level, disingenuous, and provably wrong. Adum especially should feel ashamed.

[@rerditirerthz5568]

THANK YOU 2 Said everything

[@Grim_October]

I’m atheist and this is one of my favorite animated films. I like all the points you made in its defense. (Edit) Also, I grew up watching this in a hyper religious community (I live in the Deep South) and never felt like the movie was being super manipulative, I felt like it was telling the story.

[@vjara94]

The cg can be noticeable, mote if you watch a lots of movies and you are more preceptive to it, but I don't think it was bad to the point of taking you out of the story. God can kill newborns and make things fall from the sky, but would not just simply make the slavers sleep a night and not catch the slaves while scaping, he's kind of an asshole.

[@nib1448]

Half of Adam’s problems with Prince of Egypt have nothing to do with the movie itself just with religion haha

[@nib1448]

Not to mention being propaganda doesn’t inherently make a piece of art bad. Battleship Potemkin is commie propaganda but damn is it a good movie.

[@SubxZeroGamer]

I mean the whole point of the movie is telling a religious story. It's not as if it's historical in any way. Pretty impossible to separate them lmao

[@cinemarxist_]

@@nib1448 The difference is that Communism is good

[@AGamingEntity]

No, think about the themes of this story to someone who isn't already in aw of it's themes. Thematically this film is pro authoritarian and pro "religious figurehead who leads everyone to freedom" which are themes (outside of religion) that people can disagree with. The story (again, outside of religion) doesn't really make much sense from a character perspective, and only works if they are just vehicles for a message, but it being told as a character story makes it all come off as ridiculous. You obviously didn't listen to Adum's criticism's and let your bias (whether religious or not) get in the way of understanding his opinion.

[@AGamingEntity]

@@nib1448 No, the themes of This movie and Battleship Potemkin do completely different things to a child's mind, both are propaganda, but one elicits fear in its viewers in order to convince them (not saying that was intentional - at least in the movie adaptation - but it is an inevitable bi-product) and the other is presenting the viewer with how good an ideology is. Both are propaganda, but are not comparable, also Battleship Potemkin isn't a mainstream children's movie.

[@thumbaumrrr]

For the record, the purpose of each plague was essentially a middle finger to each of the Egyptian gods and what they did. So there actually was a purpose to the way the plagues were done. But I can't really blame you guys for not knowing that.

[@leo50perez]

Based

[@diamondinmyeye6160]

I learned a thing.

[@RareCinephile]

I also saw the plagues as a showcase of God’s capabilities and a warning for Ramses. Basically saying, “Hey, if I take your son away from you, don’t say I didn’t ever warn you,” and I know others will call it overkill for God, but to me it showcases how big Ramses’ ego and pride is, and how much God had to do in order to convince him.

[@Accountnamehere1968]

Maybe it's my copy of the Bible, but even I wasn't aware of that.

[@rheawelsh4142]

Yeah, especially since back in those times people generally believed their God was the most powerful as opposed to being the only real one, so each could be seen as the Christian God battling and defeating theirs

[@FilmFanatic211]

As far as voice acting goes in The Prince of Egypt, Ralph Fiennes was acting his ass off in that sound booth! If you go back and watch the behind the scenes for that movie, you can see how he put as much emotion into his voice as he could. What elevates the movie for me is that central relationship between brothers.

[@michaelscott8901]

Timestamps in description! Questions: 1:33:51 Have you guys ever lost your love for film? 1:39:46 Thoughts about the “forced inclusiveness” complaint? 1:45:57 Thoughts on parasocial relationships?

[@lordanzu8763]

What's the movie recommendation for the next Sardonicast episode?

[@joegreenwell5476]

@@lordanzu8763 It’s Alien by Ridley Scott! Very excited to hear the conversation. It’s been a while since I watched it so I can’t wait to rewatch it. Edit: Sounds like they’ll be watching both Alien and Aliens which works for me.

[@knowledgeanddefense1054]

Martin Luther King: “A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for him, in order to equip him to compete on a just and equal basis.” Anyone who complains about pushing diversity in media (or elsewhere) is either being a, consciously or not, bigot - or just a complete freaking moron

[@Vosk21]

I didn't expect Adum to adore Prince of Egypt or anything but neither did I expect him to come away with such r/atheism level takes. vague shit like "There is no story", "God just does shit for no reason", "Fear propaganda". He's clearly out of his depth and dismissive based on a kneejerk dislike of the source material

[@doelroarpa3489]

I mean, yeah, god does just do shit for no reason in the film

[@Vosk21]

@@doelroarpa3489 he pretty clearly says to moses "i want to free the slaves". I suppose you need a reason to be against slavery?

[@doelroarpa3489]

@@Vosk21 I mean the making one guy in charge of freeing them and doing it in a way that kills a bunch of innocent children. Why not just free them himself? He's god. Also, when did I say wanting to free slaves didn't make sense?

[@Vosk21]

@@doelroarpa3489 To your first question, it helps to have the context of reading the bible. God is like a fanfic writer who can't understand or force the actions of his own creations. He wants them to do moral good and justify the concept of free will but at the same time his creations HAVE free will. There's plenty of things he COULD do himself but his actions wouldn't carry the same weight as his word made manifest in the actions of his progeny. To your second question, I was being catty. My original point was that Adum insists there was no story, but that's just wrong. The story from Moses perspective was ending the slavery of the jews and the conflict of giving up his entire life of comfort and privilege to liberate them. Adum was just being dismissive and refusing to engage with the material. I respect the hell out of Adum and find that his tastes and mine often sync up, but this was not it. He really showed how little he knows or cares about the subject and gave empty and uninformed critiques. I think it's funny that Alex was humble enough to submit his own nostalgia as grounds for his rating of the film, but Adum let his own animosity towards religious weirdos in the US color his understanding of a very straight forward story. His ego got away with him on this

[@doelroarpa3489]

@@Vosk21 so yeah, he does things that don't make sense. Like killing the children rather than intervening.

[@aexcezz9573]

The Prince of Egypt isn't just about the Exodus story. It's also about how two brothers are torn apart because of God's plan, and how unfair it is for both of them. Moses didn't feel worthy to be chosen by God and didn't want to cause his brother pain. Rameses although the villain, had to choose between his brother and the kingdom his father left him. You see their relationship dwindle not out of selfishness but because of what was chosen for them. In The Plagues one of Rameses lines is "Let my heart be hardened" which references how Rameses was going to release the Hebrews but God wasn't finished punishing them because Rameses didn't listen to him so he hardened his heart. Maybe it is kind of difficult to understand this from a secular viewpoint.

[@Andrewexploded]

@@NeverSaySandwich1 Wouldn’t needing a religious person on the podcast to explain why the movies good be counter intuitive to the whole purpose of this podcast. The films merits should stand on their own regardless of an individuals religious belief.

[@aexcezz9573]

@@Andrewexploded Well Prince of Egypt is a universally acclaimed film and a lot of Adum's gripes with it had to do with religion over the film. To understand the movie you have to have a fundamental understanding of God even if you aren't religious. If you don't accept God to be real even in the context of the film of course it isn't going to make sense.

[@equu497]

@@Andrewexploded agreed, but if someone's judgement is so tilted against religion (Adum), then having someone to counterbalance that isn't such a wild idea

[@freddiesimmons1394]

god as a character is perfectly understandable from a rational viewpoint the same way Gandalf is. I think they just missed it somehow.

[@ajzeg01]

They should’ve invited Schaffrillas back on the podcast, an animation buff who it also religious would’ve added a lot to the conversation.

[@miguelzepeda9086]

I really like Ralph's take on puss and boots: the last wish, it was quite insightful

[@joegreenwell5476]

He said so much with so little

[@johnl6192]

He left me speechless tbh

[@nib1448]

I thought it was pretty bloated tbh. He said so little over such a long time

[@skbirdandsiggi10]

About as insightful as his usual takes

[@cthulhutheendless1587]

I’ve always remembered Prince of Egypt as being an infinitely more traumatic version of Disney’s Hercules

[@overlookers]

"My time has come. You must continue your podcast without me." *_- Ralph Sepe_*

[@cinemacola6398]

I went to Puss in Boots the last wish out of nowhere on New years Eve. My gf wanted to see it and I had never heard of it until that moment. The movie had us hooked from beginning to end. Such a great movie that's creative,funny and heartfelt. Seen it four times now.

[@DavidJohnson-qu8iu]

You guys didn't miss the boat on The Prince of Egypt, you missed the harbor

[@davidcronenverga3528]

😮X

[@firesaint4569]

Is Adam a moderator on r/atheism lmao

[@trevise684]

i think the message in prince of egypt was missed, the message isnt to fear god, the message more heavily focuses on the brothers pride refusing to let moses people go., at the expense of his own peoples suffering. his stubborness to change is the more prevalent message. veggietales is propaganda, this movie is not veggietales

[@trevise684]

yall were just traumatized

[@ryantakach1478]

ya i thought it was about “toxic masculinity”

[@FuhrerHeisen]

lmfao totally the cheeseburger song and pirates who dont do anything is total propaganda. I get it but at a certain point the constant need to make an enemy out of each other is so cliche

[@davii2663]

yeah Moses's story, a *Christian* story lmao. Anyway, love u adum but if The Prince of Egypt is propaganda, Lion King is a monarchy apologist. I would argue it's a more valid argument

[@statueteethtv]

The problem with your argument is that lions kings of the jungle its supposed to characterized

[@jeremyrugg3015]

I mean, there is literally no way that it isn't propaganda, whether you agree with it or not. Propaganda isn't automatically a bad word, it's a word with a definition, that this film hits. And I say this as someone who enjoys the film a lot more than Adam.

[@statueteethtv]

@@jeremyrugg3015 Prince of Egypt side of things i agree lion king nah lions are called kings of the jungle for a reason makes for a fun story prince of egypt was held back by American censors could’ve flourished

[@RyanDaly]

The Prince of Egypt is my favourite animated film of all time! Next to Spirited Away ofc. Those films made me see animation as a true art form when I was a kid.

[@SaltandPepperFreak]

Spirited Away is actually my favorite animated film

[@RyanDaly]

@@SaltandPepperFreak You have good taste my friend 🤝

[@SaltandPepperFreak]

@@RyanDaly same

[@mathyoucanwaitk7905]

Dwayne Johnson just seems so insecure that he can't be seen next to another actor that can overshadow his character

[@mathyoucanwaitk7905]

@Sarcastic dude But DWAYNE JOHNSON has a very similar amount of fame as DWAYNE JOHNSON so DWAYNE JOHNSON might get intimidated by DWAYNE JOHNSON if DWAYNE JOHNSON tries to play the same role DWAYNE JOHNSON played a few years ago

[@just2good]

“I kind of have to just be there like Rainfurrest 2015. It’s a part of our history.”

[@luisbarajas5202]

This has definitely got to be adums biggest L. God damn imagine thinking the prince of egypt is propaganda, I'm an athiest and hate almost every christian media that I experience but god damn. I have never heard anyone ever have such a weird perspective about that movie. The prince of egypt is one of the most passionate and artistic interpretations of a biblical story out there. I'm honestly disappointed adum did not enjoy it, he's missing out on so much.

[@kairos_fluent]

@@cokemaster3710 If you want to properly learn about any subject, you would listen and examine *external* sources, not just your own intellect. So for e.g., for health/fitness or personal finance you would spend time listening to/reading about other people who are into that/practice that. But Adam makes an exception for religion, he doesn't learn anything about it because he's not curious and somehow expects to reach some level of understanding using *only* his own thoughts. " A form of insanity, really, to think that you can navigate the realities of eternity, and life and death and life after death and the great questions by looking into your own brain is pathetic, it's sad. " - (John Macarthur)

[@iamnotthatguy7166]

@@cokemaster3710 that tends to be the case when you’re narcissistic

[@boobysr]

@@cokemaster3710 damn it's almost like your feelings and personal experiences inform your opinion

[@al112v4]

@@cokemaster3710 Bunch of babies lol. Also the dude using a quote to sound smarter (not defending Adum, just watching how stupid we can get at times).

[@maydaymemer4660]

He hears the word “Christian” and goes into Attack Mode but if he knew it was a Jewish story he wouldnt have been as harsh

[@benjaminbarks2245]

It sucks that Ralph’s audio has gotten so bad that we can’t hear him anymore.

[@Advent3546]

1:20:55 We already have a movie about The Book of Gob, it was called A Serious Man by the Coen Brothers

[@instigatingapostle]

1:46:00 Damn God was taking Alex’s soul out of his breath like they took the children’s in prince of Egypt

[@nib1448]

I think this would have been an amazing selection to have Schafrillas as a return guest

[@bensonburner7037]

Uh yeah like it might like be a good idea like you know to have like Schafrillas like back on the podcast you know like

[@akiman9368]

Adums Prince of Egypt take is his own equivalent of Ben Shapiros Imagine review.

[@ezgames6925]

I feel like people get more annoyed at “forced diversity” when it’s with an already established property. When it’s with movies that already set itself up as being diverse from the beginning, complaints that they’re “forcing diversity” are seen as silly. Like if a movie was awesome and fantastic but the only thing that took you out of the movie was the fact that a character was black, then you might just be racist.

[@barsbarsbarz]

​@imtoophat3571 facts no matter what people will call it forced

[@PauLtus_B]

It does sometimes go as far as "white male lead" being "neutral" and anything else being "forced diversity". People tend to be fairly blind to their own racism though.

[@knowledgeanddefense1054]

Even adding "might" is pretty generous

[@ivan_ivankovich]

Couldn't the propaganda criticism towards Prince of Egypt be easily as applicable to many other animated or not feature films? You could argue that the Lion King romanticise monarchy

[@3lancerofficialmaybe871]

True, but when I saw Prince of Egypt as a kid I was told that what happened was real, I can't say the same for the Lion King

[@equu497]

@@3lancerofficialmaybe871 I told my brother Gru from 'Despicable Me' was real when he was a youngin. Anecdotes aren't arguments

[@3lancerofficialmaybe871]

@@equu497 I was told by institutions in line with my government (Church of England) that what happened was real. I was also told by my Church, my parents, grandparents, etc that is was real, obviously not really comparable to you being a dick to your brother.

[@AGamingEntity]

No, showing god killing children of families who don't believe in them is definitely psychologically different from the lion king idolizing monarchy

[@Cadaveralien]

@@3lancerofficialmaybe871 So the propaganda criticism towards Prince of Egypt can be easily applicable to many other christmas animated or not feature films?

[@danthehomosapien2722]

Never thought I'd see the day where Adam was the only one defending a mediocre superhero movie (I liked shazam 2 btw)

[@KentzHodiono]

Nothing to do with how they've collaborated before in a previous episode, oh wait

[@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09]

Calling it mediocre is being very nice to it

[@AngusKhaw]

Lotta brown nosing from Adam in this one

[@JohnnyBurnes]

02:02:00 Notice Sigourney Weaver's gradual decline in sanity from being stern at the beginning of Alien to singing to herself in a panic by the end. It's such an overlooked aspect of her character and acting talent how she incrementally changes behavior.

[@docvince1491]

Adam acting like a euphoric Twitter atheist during the Prince of Egypt review is embarrassing.

[@notsoaveragejoe7275]

I agree with Adam. When you're a kid you only pick up on what is literally being said or shown - kids don't think about subtext. If you've been brought up in a religious family and they show you this film with the image of God killing newborns if you don't do what he says, then of course that's a form of propaganda. You can't really see it any other way. The film might be saying other stuff that adults can pick up on, but kids will only see the black & white, not the grey. If that was Adam's experience then that's obviously valid.

[@debodatta7398]

His praise of the Shazam fury of the gods movie was cringe too, we get it you like the director and you’re friends with him but fuck trying to swing that movie as one of the best dc films is absolutely shit

[@stumbleswith40]

Embarrassing for you?

[@al112v4]

Holy crap some of the comments here are extremely hilarious, I'm glad Adum just says his opinion and doesn't bother to fight over sentences like this or @Debo Datta's comment, which is even funnier. This also reminds when certain people lost their minds when Adum didn't enjoyed the Indiana Jones movies, when he clearly explained why he didn't liked them, and oh, he didn't said in any moment that Shazam 2 was one of the best DC films lol just that he likes when a director has a voice.

[@badassbowlingbird]

He's right though. Teaching children about the bible and subsequently (also most importantly) the existence of Hell is psychological abuse.

[@pootlovato837]

It’s always great when one of the boys are out and we get an Alex episode

[@Chromaray]

I would've loved to hear a third opinion for this set of movies in particular.

[@Advent3546]

It's hard to recognize Sardonicast without Ralph having terrible mic audio

[@brianfromthechannelbrian]

Maybe I could see Prince of Egypt being fearmongering propaganda for children if Dreamworks had, like, Pureflix's ethos, but seeing as they've... never made another movie with an agenda like that, its a random criticism.

[@kairos_fluent]

When Adam is talking around 1:20:50 about the story of Job in the bible - it wasn't a bet since God has omniscience , he knew Job's faith would hold. It's really about a dialogue about the mystery of human suffering, where we see Job's questioning about God with himself and among his friends. Finally in the epilogue his answers are satisfied not through words alone (that would be an endless verbal battle) but seeing God face to face.

[@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09]

Shazam having a family moment of the roof of a building while innocent people were being killed by monsters below them was unintentionally hilarious.

[@timothymcqueen3408]

My biggest laugh in Puss in Boots is when Puss literally gets his ass slapped by Perrito.

[@dirrdevil]

Ralph is the God of Sardonicast: distant, absent, mysterious, wrathful. If you don't subscribe to the Patreon, Ralph will take your first born son's soul.

[@darrenm.7980]

So sad to hear about Ralph's passing. Hope Adam and Alex can continue without him

[@ZhilTP911]

The Shazam 2 director recently published a youtube video talking about how he communicates his vision and uses scenes from the movie as examples.

[@dogtheories]

i kept hallucinating ralph laughing behind everyone else listening to this im so used to him just being there

[@_e1i]

Tip for you guys: next time you review a movie with religious themes, take off your fedoras and focus on what’s actually in the films, not your hatred of religion

[@koolkat9214]

The biggest wasted opportunity in Shazam 2 was that they didn't make Mister Mind the main villain even though they teased him in both end credits scenes. He is an evil worm who is hyper intelligent and has mind control and psychic abilities that can rival Professor X. Basically he is plankton if he was alot more dangerous and I shit you not, was an ally to Adolf Hitler in the golden age comics. There was also Captain Nazi as well and Sabbac (The devil from black adam) Who was essentially the devil version of shazam in that each acronym for his name is based off of Gods (Solomon, Hercules, Atlas, Zeus, Achilles and Mercury) and in Sabbac his acronyms were (Satan, Aym, Belial, Beelzebub, Asmodeus and Craeteis) but because Dwayne Johnson fucked his character up we may not see him adapted properly again.

[@koskazoli2841]

It's weird to hear Adam and Alex's take on Prince of Egypt or Last temptation of Christ. These films mean so much more to me and it makes me feel I don't have the ability to call myself an atheist. Instead I always feel deep down I'm a man of faith although I don't really practice any religion (except for praying). Also I'm just fascinated by any kind of religion like the guy from Life of Pi.

[@RickRaptor105]

If you "feel deep down a man of faith" and even pray, that means you're not an atheist. The whole point of atheism is that it means you don't believe in any higher power.

[@koskazoli2841]

@@RickRaptor105 It just makes me feel stupid when I'm listening to rational atheist opinions...

[@obscure.reference]

faith is just a good thing to have objectively helpful and empowering

[@thumbaumrrr]

Wish the life of pi movie had but more effort into the first half of the book. They basically only spent like 20 minutes on it. You should really read the book, it's ten times better than the film

[@albedo5455]

You're not an atheist, you're a deist.

[@05pincat10]

I was listening to this episode on apple podcast but as soon as i heard Adum's take on PoE i came to youtube just to check the comment section

[@Maya-ve8bq]

Prince of Egypt is an amazing movie lol it just shows how subjective film can be

[@sawtoothhorse]

Joseph King of Dreams is actually the story before the Prince of Egypt

[@SonicHaXD]

So glad you guys talked about Puss In Boots. Excited to hear you guys talk about Shrek 5 XD

[@KuraishiRei]

Alex and Adum, on the first question, the part of "Commenting about a film that you didn't saw" I do that all the time, my friends and colleagues never suspect and they sometimes quote my "opinion" about a movie a pretended I saw. It's quite easy, I think

[@scraftyboi]

Wish you guys had waited for ralph before this episode, dynamic without him isnt as fun

[@WiloPolis03]

It was nice of Adum to let up and coming gamer youtuber Alex from IHE on his podcast

[@connorw2k]

I heard "who is your favourite furless hero" at the beginning so it came as a shock to me when Adam followed up with his own name.

[@cadoized]

i grew up religious with Prince of Egypt and Joseph King of Dreams as some of the only movies i could watch. Joseph is like, not very good from what i remember but i'd love to see more people talk about it

[@Persephone_ch]

Adum needs to have an entire stream where he explains why the skittles scene from Shazam 2 was actually a cinematic masterpiece.

[@joellbaldonado1263]

😂

[@docterwithane8300]

Does anyone understand what Adum means when he says Elon musk is acting insecure?

[@docterwithane8300]

@@NeverSaySandwich1 lol

[@MiqelDotCom]

Yes, I immediately knew what he was talking about. Despite being (sometimes) the richest person in the world he's extremely needy, thin skinned, and comes across as insecure in his behavior and twitter posts (examples: trying waaaaay to hard to be funny but just posting stolen boomer memes that aren't funny, or getting into dumb arguments based on misunderstanding stuff he should know, or doing weird stuff like blocking links to substack because he's afraid of it being a competitor and not realizing that it only makes him and the company look weak)

[@maydaymemer4660]

Hes just a loser. A successful rich one but Musk seems like he’s always trying to get friends pleasing a kind of person who doesnt exist

[@HayleighPaige]

I grew up in Catholicism and Mormonism (a great combo) and am now very far removed from those religions. And I love The Prince of Egypt so much, it’s just such a great movie even if you can remove yourself from the religion. It’s a beautiful retelling of a story and the music is INCREDIBLE, still one of my favorite soundtracks of all time! As a non-religious person, I completely appreciate this movie so much, it tells the story so we’ll regardless of if you truly believe in that story of the bible or not :)

[@maydaymemer4660]

Plus it’s fundamentally Jewish story and Christians connected with it enough to yknow believe in it

[@SnowpawShaw]

Dammit! I wanted to know what Ralph has to say about The Last Wish... I'm so frustrated

[@KE-yq2eg]

The gay man doesn't like the religious movie? No surprise there.

[@smexyboii]

No clue why people are surprised

[@FuhrerHeisen]

@@smexyboii people assumed as a movie reviewer he had integrity rather than just personal bias

[@maydaymemer4660]

Because he assumes it’s a Christian story made by Christians and not God’s Chosen

[@adaptationmusick]

Awesome question section this round. I enjoyed the final conversation about para-social relationships. Also, when Adum commented on his disconnect from people growing up. I'm always surprised by the abundance of self-awareness and self-compassion related topics that come up in this movie-critique podcast.

[@seazonegranec]

Saw Puss in Boots last night with my daughter. The wolf is amazing. Made me hyped for more Shrek and more Love

[@kingsleycy3450]

On Shazam 2, without the superhero craze a lot of them are just going to flop regardless of quality. The mainstream audience only ever care about Batman and Spiderman etc., and even they have to reboot themselves every decade to rebuild interest

[@ajzeg01]

Adum’s take on Prince of Egypt is as bad as Ralph’s take on One Cut of the Dead.

[@morganlefay3385]

the story of the exodus is thousands of years old, and is meant to explain the origins of the Israelites. it doesn't make sense to evaluate the story like a modern narrative. also i don't get Adum's propaganda point, at least in regards to the plauges... kids didn't die bc they didn't do what God says, they died bc of Ramses putting his pride before the people in his country, and the death of innocents was treated like a genuine tragedy.

[@doelroarpa3489]

Why does it not make sense to evaluate it as a modern narrative? Any story from any period of time can be judged by modern standards

[@maydaymemer4660]

It’s also funny because the movie was made because it’s a fundamental Jewish text

[@Corvy952]

I’m as anti religion as Adam but he really didn’t speak on the actually story of prince of Egypt. Did he completely miss the point of it? Bc as someone who grew up in Catholicism & later denounced it, revisiting this movie this is a movie of the destruction and complex relationship of a pair of brothers. Ramsays and Moses, religion and all that aside, are two loving brothers who are torn apart by fate. This is the same as a Greek tragedy and I personally feel it works. God is presented as cruel and harsh and at the end I’m on not his side. I sympathize with Moses and want him to grow, ramsays is given a bad hand. Idk I feel like Adam was really hyper focused on the religion aspect and didn’t look at Moses as a character or ramsays. Yes it’s propaganda that doesn’t mean there isn’t something in there to actually delve into and look beyond the surface. Loved Cinema Therapy’s video on prince of Egypt. Much more in-depth/nuanced, less focused on the religion aspect

[@maydaymemer4660]

It’s also what Adam misses is…. It’s not a Christian film. Like sure Christians believe that story happened, but the story is fundamental to Jewish culture and is pretty much the reason Israel exists as a country. Then the movie itself was produced by Jeffrey KATZENBERG

[@MrSpoodersaurus]

Really interesting chat about Para-social relationships

[@Farfaramir]

I actually did watch 65 before Shazam, and I got the exact experience that Adum got.

[@GamingAnimator1]

Prince of Egypt has better songs than Lion King, just saying. The only good song in Lion King is Be Prepared, the rest are pretty mid, the score's phenomenal though. The Plagues, Deliver Us, Playing with the Big Boys, When You Believe, so many incredible songs in Prince of Egypt. Also the fact that you guys did not talk at all about the incredible and believable relationship between Moses and Rameses is disappointing. That was the whole heart of the movie and created some great drama. Of course I expected Adum to just nitpick and not properly articulate like he always does, but I thought at least Alex would bring that up.

[@thisinhumanplace2037]

God their audio is so good wtf

[@ADeadlierSnake]

Wow, Ralph's audio was *really* messed up in this one--I couldn't even hear him!

[@NeutralGuyDoubleZero]

Adum and pals watch Shazam 2 just so Scoot can yell out how it's the Asian guy from 13 reasons why

[@andrewbaillargeon1459]

Ralph could leave forever at this point. I like him as a person but nothing was lost from him being gone. He rarely adds anything of note to a film unless it's something he absolutely adores.

[@jaden_bricker]

Ralph keeps Adam grounded, honestly. Adam will be going off and Ralph will remind him it’s not that serious, it’s just a movie. And I appreciate him for that.

[@andrewbaillargeon1459]

@Jaden Bricker You know what your right I will give you that. I just have been going back through old episodes as of late and there's so many times where it ends up just being Adum and Alex going back and forth, then Ralph will be like "yea it was good". But I totally see your point.

[@josephparkin1810]

He doesn’t really add much usually I agree, but he does occasionally come out with some funny/insightful stuff to say which is worth it to me

[@triplecastsleep1924]

The baffling part of the rock to me is that he can be good. His portrayal of Maui in Moana was very good, how he could emote with his voice and how the passion he brought to the film helped improve it's authenticity (Maui was supposed to be bald like the rock, but Dwayne brought up how long hair is associated with powerful warriors in polynesian culture). He just...isn't, a lot of the time. I think part of it is type casting, but a lot of it I think is that the rock's ego has become truly mountainous. If you look at the last few years of his career, he's basically just played himself.

[@getmario64]

Wow, Ralph didn't show up? Now we got two dudes just only one episode. Don't worry, hell be back. Probably because he is busy.

[@Nick-cg5hi]

This might be the best lineup ever

[@DanXmas]

1:37:02 it's called "On Cinema" with Tim Heidecker & Gregg Turkington

[@hottakestuesdays7450]

one guys dead inside, the other guy don't be ashamed of liking it.

[@hottakestuesdays7450]

tawky towny is awesome

[@dominicwatts7059]

Scrambling for my wallet so I can buy a couple hours of the “Adum Girlfriend Experience”

[@dirrdevil]

James Cameron could learn a thing or two from Puss in Boots films.

[@IyrenRoboto]

YMS has really bad takes yikes

[@bartholen]

When Adam was talking about the blending of CG with hand drawn 2D animation in Prince of Egypt, his standards are just completely unreasonable. Same with the action scenes in John Wick. In 1999 CG itself was still being figured out, and blending CG with 2D animation is still being figured out to this day. Him treating the wildebeest stampede from Lion King as the baseline standard for 1999 in that regard is just being cuntish. That scene was lightning in a bottle for 1994. It's like seeing someone run the 100 meter dash in 5 seconds due to a freak confluence of factors, and expecting everyone to be able to do the same from there on. The blending of CG and 2D in Prince of Egypt still looks fantastic, and him failing to give more credit than "it's okay" makes him sound like the pretentious restaurant critics from The Menu.

[@lilmovieperp3599]

you cant tell me 65 wasnt a fetish film. small dinos taking down the towering kylo HAS to get someone off....

[@Nightmarewrath]

If they end up doing The Super Mario Bros movie at some point, it wouldn't surprise me they get dislike bombed by defenders of the movie since both Alex and Adum didn't like it.

[@JDLaney-zk4wb]

The Rock is very thin skinned and has a very huge yet fragile ego. When Black Adam bombed, that Moana reboot was announced, and you just know for a fact that The Rock is the one who wanted this (since no one else does)

[@motherplayer]

No doubt. Only reason to explain how Moana is getting that fast tracked for a live-action remake in such a short time, as opposed to something that did much stronger like "Frozen" and is even going to be 10 years old this year. But no, clearly Moana coming first is showing they have better ideas, obviously. Nothing at all to do with Dwayne looking for a new star vehicle now that Black Adam isn't gonna go anywhere.

[@samir6047]

Adam's right about 65, but i loved the fact that Adam Driver was shooting and killing them and treating them like predators who are an actual threat, unlike Chris Pratt just being male khalessi and just shushing them, everytime they are on screen.

[@ayeg-dp5to]

I NEVER KNEW THAT WAS SANDY BULLOCKS WTF

[@holdensutter6257]

1:37:03 they’re describing On Cinema at the Cinema pretty much exactly here. I’d LOVE to hear their thoughts on that series.

[@mathieuleader8601]

*PLAYING WITH THE BIG BOYS NOW*

[@finallyediting914]

1:37:27 it feels like alex is halfway describing the setup of on cinema here

[@timothymcqueen3408]

Captain Marvel and Black Adam are really cool, but I’m not really butthurt about them being misused in the movies. I can just enjoy their comics and be fine.

[@JaneGo]

Ralph back on the jenkem this week

[@KuraishiRei]

For all of Shazam Fury of the Gods' flaws, I think it's a very well rounded movie. Seeds planted in the beginning come back all over the movie. Like Adam said, the director really tried

[@knurdyob]

I'm glad David S. Sandberg went on this podcast, because I think it might've subtly affected how Adam engages with film criticism, at least in this instance if for nothing else, it seems he is being a lot more understanding towards the reality of filmmaking, as the "director" has been humanized for him. I'm not taking credit away from the film or Adam's comments, just mentioning that he seems to be making a more balanced assessment of things, which is good for any critic to do. A lot of people think this is a detriment if you want to seriously criticize an art form, but I think the human element is insanely important in judging a work's worth as well. Not a lot of critics are smart enough to realize this, but I think Adam is on the right path, seems to be maturing a bit more as time goes on

[@WL1264]

Adam was suspiciously easy on both Shazam movies. Even gave the first one a 7/10. I hope he ain't doing to suck up to their buddy David f Sandberg.

[@diazinamon2431]

When you give Shazam a higher scorew than Spider-verse, you are absolutely being too soft on one film.

[@iamnotthatguy7166]

NOBODY LIKES A SUCK UP-PAH

[@SashaFilmsUnlimited]

I don’t know if this was intentional but there was an ad break what felt like every 5 minutes with this one. I felt the need to write a comment.