Science Used to Be Weird - Safety Third 106

[@TheCalifornianeskimo]

This week on safety third - the gang discovers ethics

[@pandometer4748]

now im imagining an alternate universe where safety third does an its always sunny intro lmfao

[@nautiplexriftscrubler8979]

"discover" is a big word for what they did

[@TheGingey]

Considering they were discussing torturing animals I do not think they came to the right conclusion

[@CosmicDragonEternus]

I think it's more like they "undiscovered" ethics

[@duskpede5146]

god this episode is killing me, jane goodall had NOTHING to do with koko the gorrilla, she researched chimps

[@remyslosberg7313]

That's just what they want you to think /j

[@PJSproductions97]

Actual trainer was Francine Patterson

[@ReallyBakedGamer]

jesus, from the basic neurology of insects to jane goodall being "cancelled", allen pan is just a misinformation machine today

[@ReallyBakedGamer]

also, let it be known that gorillas and chimps do not behave the same in any way, chimps are unempathetic psychopaths, gorillas are sophisticated, caring and empathetic, dont piss it off though, it wont mutilate you but itll warn you and if you continue to offend itll slap the shit out of you, putting you in the hospital. orangutans are basically the air nomads of the ape world, theyre just super chill.

[@ReallyBakedGamer]

today's lesson is, never listen to engineers talk about animals and think they're correct

[@DAVOinIN]

Yeppp physicists at least would make this conversation interesting, but engineers will just make a claim that is easily disproven and then stick by it.

[@lettersnstuff]

if they don’t have a phd in the subject, don’t listen to them. and sometimes don’t listen to them even if they have a phd.

[@DAVOinIN]

@@lettersnstuff I mean this isn't true at all. (As someone getting a PhD) There are plenty of experts in this world who don't have an MS/PhD. What really matters is how long they've studied/worked on a topic, who they learned from, and whether or not their work meets the standards of their field.

[@HailHydra27]

I love the instant decision that it was a global cover up rather than they just got the wrong person

[@hovesssharedspace8490]

stronger minds can overcome the "wrong person" lie easier

[@RyanMercer]

I wish Kevin would do some more really dumb laser stuff, but maybe only because I've now got 9 cutting/engraving lasers in my garage.

[@CephBacon]

At least styropyro has been uploading more frequently the past year

[@incy2k]

I used a high power laser to clean up Williams yard! When?

[@RyanMercer]

@@incy2k right?! I keep looking at my 20w fiber laser thinking "if I put it in my lawn cart with an ecoflow and use the detachable head, how much damage can I do to the English ivy..."

[@happyskating2000]

Turns out they were able to get the dolphin to approximate words for fish treats. I guess the rest was extracurricular. I believe the story is the research study ended and she was allowed to continue it in her own. Essentially animal abuse for “science”

[@rustroomofdoom]

The reason that most of the time dogs dont *express* pain is because they're sort of aware that it's not good to be injured and so they basically try to hide it from us. In the wild, if an animal shows pain, it's more likely to be targeted by a predator. For us, that's massively different due to how social and empathetic we are as humans.

[@TheGingey]

Same deal with the sheep and goat, they are prey animals they aren't going to show pain.

[@dth99times]

Some dogs are definitely more willing to show pain, at least from my limited experience. I've had a dog that would have injuries from attacking squirrels or running into or up trees, and she would act like nothing happened unless it was particularly bad, and a dog that would yelp and whine for a week if it stepped on a sticker. Probably mostly for attention, but it definitely felt the pain.

[@Biggest_Mike]

Yo the Koko gorilla scientist who did all the shady stuff was NOT jane goodall. it was Francine Patterson

[@surge-fox]

They found out later in the episode

[@harken9978]

they figured that out-

[@quantuminfinity4260]

@@surge-foxNo, they still think it’s Jane Goodalls organization. It’s not and has nothing to do with her beyond the vague mental link of “women who work with gorilla” they have.

[@Stevie707]

I just looked it up, to learn the extent of the demands were made. Apparently Koko didn't just want to see women's nips, she wanted to see men's nips too!

[@gljames24]

I had a classmate who raised sheep and he told me they spend the nights thinking of ways to unalive themselves.

[@ac.creations]

But do they dream of electric sheep

[@realfoggy]

They also beep beep at night

[@tv-pp]

The sheep or your classmate?

[@Stevie707]

One of my friend's goats hanged itself from a tree overnight. We still have no idea how it managed to get up into the tree, and slip in such a way that the horns got stuck in a crook of the tree, but yeah.

[@brumm0m3ntum94]

do note that jane goodall was the one that lived with chimps in the wild, the koko girl was penny patterson. also, koko, much like myself, liked all tiddies, not just women’s, might’ve also been nipples specifically. i believe robin williams, for example, talked about koko grabbing his nipples

[@brumm0m3ntum94]

note i commented this before they found out it wasn’t jane but i’m leaving it up because they didn’t find out about koko’s lack of preference when it comes to nipples

[@Biggest_Mike]

who can stop the Allen Pan misinformation machine 😢

[@michaelmoorrees3585]

Creating what's "real" on the internet. Jane Goodall only studied Chimps, not gorillas.

[@marekprchal4573]

it really keeps surprising me how dumb they sometimes are. these are smart people, but the lack of some basic knowledge is astounding.

[@matthewsharp1178]

It’s so funny

[@EnigmaMaster]

For supposedly "smart" people , they got all their stories wrong. Lmao

[@foximacentauri7891]

@@EnigmaMasterwell have you ever been to a pub with a professor? Smart people can get really dumb when it’s not serious.

[@bdogswag1114]

My absolute favorite thing they do is split the audio channels when they start having two conversations at the same time. It works so well in my headphones

[@slothfulcobra]

the big dolphin researcher was really into LSD, the dolphins that took LSD killed themselves while tripping out by not coming up for air

[@powerlifting1012]

Natural selection, the dolphins that survived will go on to breed a super race of dolphin.

[@venkaramon]

I love that the first 10 mins epitomizes most of what happens in Will and Kevin's life. They get something, doesn't look into it and then surprise Pikachu face when it does what it's supposed to lol. Never change guys. Of course the goat is gonna poop everywhere and it's gonna eat the tastier plants it's a goat

[@Cockerham]

accidently exposed as the goat expert.

[@venkaramon]

I mean it's a goat. You don't need to know much to know it's gonna poop everywhere

[@ryanmichael3125]

splitting the audio when the two groups are talking was hilarious

[@flyyf1]

was just about to say this haha, made it a lot easier to hear what was going on for some reason

[@bumblebee4245]

It's a running bit that they do

[@jaspervandenameele4834]

Haha it's fun to see new people are passing by

[@Lil_Tom351]

It’s great, but if your phone is on low power mode one of the conversations gets put through the speaker for phone calls, and ultimately gets drowned out.

[@incy2k]

What about the way they start the podcast and how well they introduce guests

[@anegginthesetryingtimes7636]

The lack of ag literacy in the crew really shows. If you want grazers to be useful, you need to fence them into the desired area. The first question that I would ask is, "Why is the goat anywhere near my house, where it can grind its horns on my siding?" They really got a goat before putting up a wire fence.

[@venkaramon]

They got a goat before literally looking into anything. Will was literally surprised how much it pooped. Even I know goats poop a lot and I've only seen a goat irl like twice ever. Same reason his tractor broke immediately. They get an idea do it without looking into it then get surprised it's not the way they imagined it to be. It's hilarious considering their type of content.

[@beachcoww]

​@@venkaramonI personally love it

[@cornonjacob]

I'm pretty sure in the video of them getting the animals you can see them getting told by the owner to close them in where they're supposed to eat, although I think their response was "we want them to eat stuff across the entire property

[@nathanieljames7462]

Now tell me you're surprised by their actions 🤣

[@krillianlastrange4886]

I love this podcast but they really don't know anything but physics. Every time they touch on a subject I know about (finance& tax, I'm an accountant) it's really obvious they're just regurgitating half-remembered news articles

[@ellabun]

Koko was always a scam: 1. Apes, even Koko, have never shown the capacity for *language*. The signing they learn is simple and they do not use grammar. While it is still impressive, It is an insult to sign language to call what Koko does sign language. 2. Koko's handlers have always mysteriously given translations far more complex than the signs made by the gorilla, and there has always been a layer of obfuscation such that only Koko's handlers are able to "properly" interpret the signs, including those competent in ASL or BSL. Animals are amazing and animal communication is an incredible field that is still uncovering all sorts of interesting stuff. Machine learning has been an amazing tool allowing us to look deeper into the chatter and calls of bats, dolphins (they seem to have names!!!??!?), etc. and even synthesize communication for them to interpret, but Koko is not some magical pariah, just great ape (heh) misused in a long term scam that probably has/had good intentions.

[@valicove]

Please get cody'slab as a guest.

[@ac.creations]

Cody Slab!

[@UnreliableAdvice4all]

​@@ac.creations or if you spell it backward: Balsy Doc

[@logan758]

@@UnreliableAdvice4allriveting

[@jeffreydutra]

He's going to open sauce

[@djSpinege]

I would love that. Hes such a legend, Been watching him for years.

[@bolivianPsyOp]

This is wild: Lovatt (the researcher) stayed on the island and married a photographer who had photographed their research. They later moved back into the Dolphinarium and converted it into a family home. Together they had three daughters.

[@knigo7967]

According to google, a termite hill is made of roughly 20% Aluminum and 23% iron, meaning it shouldn't be that hard to extract those and (using a title oxygen from the atmosphere) turning it into Thermite!

[@therancidpizzabox2977]

I’ve never had both headphones in when you did the split convo. Instantly and completely overwhelmed. Is this what it feels to have a sheep brain?

[@Wezla]

Is this new? They did it for a moment early on and I was genuinely startled by my PC speakers

[@therancidpizzabox2977]

@@Wezla they always joked about it but I don’t know if they’ve ever actually done it before. It’s so jarring and I love it.

[@messyg-tar2251]

​@@therancidpizzabox2977they used to do it really often in early episodes

[@venkaramon]

They have done it in almost every episode except 1 or 2. They do it A LOT lol

[@therancidpizzabox2977]

@@venkaramon but they actually split the channels between the headphones? I usually listen in my car and just realized it switches to stereo so that totally could be

[@joshuakosar417]

You could 100% bully a chicken into killing itself. They are super social and super sensitive creatures. You'd have to be an absolute monster to do it, but yeah.

[@a.........1._.2..__..._.....__]

For folks who dabble in science. It boggles my mind they didn't anticipate that the eaten grass would be converted to piss and shit.

[@mf--]

Not rocket science but conservation of matter should have come up at some point.

[@myrealusername2193]

In the video they mentioned that it seemed like much more piss and shit production than grass removal

[@shiftymiata]

Did you miss the part where they discussed how they weren't even eating the grass?

[@venkaramon]

​@@shiftymiatapoint is it still ate something so of course it would turn to shit

[@f3rny_66]

thats what happens when you just dabble, you don't think ahead

[@nathanieljames7462]

Allan Pan coming up with the most overcomplicated Tamagotchi ever 😂

[@byanymemesnecessary8848]

16:00 I'm an exterminator, you're correct about non repellents being a problem, but the active ingredient itself isn't the problem. Fipronil is a common flea and tick medicine for cats and dogs. The problem is these non repellents are first designed for termites and as such they are designed to last for years, where as most common insecticides last a couple months. They also tend to be much worse for pollinators than more common pyrethroid insecticides. Pyrethoids can be detected by insects and they will avoid them.

[@Leadvest]

When dealing with animals(especially invertebrates) it's important to not think about pain or suffering, because those are very hard to quantify. Except in terms of rationalizing culling. It's important to think of quality of life, and prioritize quality over quantity. A long life, or large colony isn't necessarily conducive to good life. I've learned this lesson many times over dealing with animal hoarders who seem physically incapable of learning it. Think about the enrichment the animal is missing, about its place in the ecosystem, and about how it impacts you and others. If you don't want to make goat cheese, don't get a goat. If you don't want to be taught shallowness of mortality by an animal that barely counts as being alive, don't get a sheep. Insects don't have the same pain receptors as us because they're that different, but obviously they get nervous system shock which can overload them in a similar way as with extreme pain. Borax/diatomaceous earth(silica shells of diatoms) are great because they're cheap, non-toxic to people, dogs, cats, birds, but they're not nearly as effective as insecticide that's soluble in fatty tissue. Biggest issue with animal care is that an emotional response, and aversion to certain options, can lead to more pain and suffering than experience and critical assessment. As soon as you put on emotional blinders, you also become blind to the animals state of mind.

[@Trade4Lewt]

I legit think that the jane goodall mandela effect thing is because of a infamous internet videos of a women who owned a chimp who mauled one of her guest and the video is the phone call of the Jane Goodall look alike, who also happened to own a monkey, freaking out with live commentary of her chimp mauling the person and then she asks the 911 dispatcher for the police officers to bring a gun

[@HardcoreGamerAus]

I enjoy the multiple conversations at the same time. It’s stimulates my adhd.

[@TildeSounds]

her name is missing in the description

[@colinflack4517]

I'm more surprised they said it in the episode

[@TildeSounds]

@@colinflack4517 fair

[@Haarschmuckfachgeschafttadpole]

It's part of the running gag where they don't introduce guests. Estefannie is another science youtuber.

[@skateruwu]

No way we finally get to see what they're looking at on screen?

[@exileisland2675]

Someone roped me into showing a sheep for 4h and they're dumber than chickens. They destroyed everything. shit and piss on anything that wasn't grass.

[@northerncricket5199]

What could possibly have been said that was bad enough to cut out of the Peter the Dolphin episode?

[@namyx_71]

thank you so much guys, this was the worst one yet, enjoyed it thoroughly.

[@cameronboggs7292]

15:10 fun fact most scientists agree that spiders that live in your home are not well adapted for survival outside so by taking them outside you're just sentencing them to starvation and death by exposure

[@patiolunch]

i feel like the thing they do where they split the audio when they all talk at once actually genuinely helps me listen to them and it feels cool to actually be able to process multiple trains of thought at the same time

[@bedeviere]

RETURN OF THE LEFT RIGHT AUDIO it was very crisp this time, thank you

[@chimkinovania5237]

nilered where

[@Evan_124]

In Montreal clearly

[@liamcallahan]

He left the podcast a while back, but they'll bring him on as a guest sometimes

[@Alvin-wx2ep]

Agred

[@skasev]

The sheep ate Kevin’s weed?!

[@johnnysun6495]

Me when allen spreads misinformation: 🤭\ For the record, Jane Goodall had nothing to do with Francine Patterson/The Gorilla Foundation

[@baltzermisje619]

It’s sad that koko the gorilla sadly didn’t really know sign language

[@ellabun]

People need to know this. Animals are amazing and the kind of BS like Koko's claimed language skills really gets in the way of understanding them.

[@aydencaulder5393]

This is one of my favorite episodes so far 😂

[@TheUltimateTerran]

This might be the best episode. rolling on the floor laughing half the time!

[@a.........1._.2..__..._.....__]

William legit not understanding mental and physical pain being separate and having differential effects was... interesting.

[@powerlifting1012]

Even if I was on death row, it would be incredibly upsetting and unsettling watching myself get mutilated even if there was no pain just the odd tug and pull here and there.

[@a.........1._.2..__..._.....__]

@@powerlifting1012 kzbin.info/www/bejne/iWXUYY2MocaqbM0si=3TGNkVhWMyjDhraot&t=1m39s classic example. Mental torture using a popsicle pretending to be a torch.

[@_ch1pset]

If y'all were wanting to "dig up dirt" on Jane Goodall, there's actually alot of controversy over her book and some of her methods she used in her famous research with chimpanzees. I will say, if you go down this rabbit hole, it leads to misogynist blogs. You might argue, some of the criticism is overly critical because of her outsized impact as a woman.

[@TheInnsanity]

Great to see @Estefannie back on the podcast, forgot to link in the description though, lol.

[@BeardedPiper]

I laughed my ass off so much during this episode. Thanks for making my day better with the absurdity.😂

[@ropssalis4891]

I love how they divided the conversation

[@Pherberg]

I just wanna say Thank you. I love this show, and I Appreciate it immensely.

[@Maxjoker98]

Let's see how fast the Safety Third crew can teach a goat and a sheep english.

[@BanjoJeff]

What did they expect the sheep and goat to do it not poo everywhere? They are for turning plants into poop. If you start with a lot of plants you are going to get a lot of poop

[@happyskating2000]

Listening to William, describe studying philosophy, is like listening to someone describe studying mathematics as drawing squiggles on a blackboard.😂

[@ThatGuy_33]

18:15 A couple of years ago, I stepped on a rockfish, and it was the worst pain that I had ever experienced, However I still think that better than painlessly losing a single finger.

[@nicholash.7656]

Thursdays are good days!

[@Quamsi]

I was going to listen to this while I eat lunch, but on second thought I think I will wait until this evening 😅

[@D-Arora]

I started watching some of the Half Baked Science episodes. Now all of Allen's animal facts and his disdain of koalas makes sense.

[@MrFadjule]

Where did you find said episodes?

[@D-Arora]

@@MrFadjule they were a bit hard to find but the live streams are on KZbin. youtube.com/@halfbakedscience9978

[@warw]

Hey Will, for your ant issue, you can trench around your place and use fipronil from 'domyown' pest control. It'll prevent subterranean termites as well as your ants and more for like 10 years, it only takes a few hours to do.

[@Phoebebee323]

Koko couldnt actually speak sign language. it's like a parent hearing their baby say blobo and think that means they want their bottle

[@SuperScott3000]

i unironically enjoy the split conversations when the audio is split accordingly

[@eyespliced]

If you think goats are bad, then never, ever, ever under any circumstances get chickens.

[@yairakatz8688]

This makes sense to me... because I absolutely love goats and chickens...

[@adrunkenloner]

I'm so proud of Nigel, they changed genders from one episode to another

[@epicthief]

28:50 there is an actual study on squirrels that unalive themselves via fast moving cars because they get depressed

[@Decaf.]

Some great sound bytes from this one

[@antoniomafera1378]

i can't believe none of them had heard about the robin williams bit where he talks about coco's nipple thing

[@stdorn]

You'r right about dogs and pain. ive seen my dog running full speed smack his head into a tree and just took off running like it didnt even phase him.

[@Lasershark666]

I skipped taxes for 4 years and never filed an extension, I was owed money every year so I didn’t have to pay a fine or anything, just had to file the oldest on paper once I did it

[@DavidSmith-gs6us]

I’m pretty sure the lady who trained Koko was named Penny

[@ComicusFreemanius]

Old farmers saying is, "sheep is the only animal the would die twice if it could". They're _dumb_ dumb.

[@NorroTaku]

the split audio was awesome 😂😂

[@iMilby]

I think I finally figured out why I'm drawn to this podcast. You each represent my last few brain cells 😂

[@HDMICIDE]

the way the audio channels got swapped atleast twice by 30minutes bothers me 29:53 you can hear it

[@thelastcube.]

this was Unhinged with a capital U, i love it

[@support_theory8754]

omg I was not prepared for when you split the audio

[@SatanSupimpa]

I consider Taofledermaus a science channel, you should invite Jeff to the podcast.

[@damprat141]

As someone with a literal mental block in my comprehension of empathy and feeling of emotions . The whole talk about "are they actual feeling pain or is it just a response telling them its how they are supposed to act" hit way to hard. There is mo solid answer to any of these questions

[@jarrettnelson2936]

This is might be the funniest one so far

[@harthroth]

Listening to these guys is like listening to the robobrain scientists at Big MT in Fallout New Vegas

[@leafyleafyleafyn9785]

will they apologise to jane goodall in the next episode?

[@SheWhoWalksSilently]

As a person who felt like her house was built on an anthill, the ants were inescapable, ants can get WRECKED 🔪🧨⚰️💥

[@ElTeteh]

I think everything experiences pain in some way, so I think the question being posited is more what feels pain in a way that is simmilar to ours. Because at the end of the day pain really is just a signal our body developed to notify us "Hey no this is bad stop touching this/being hurt if you can help it", so I think bugs probably feel pain in that broader definition. You could even say that machine learning programs have "pain", in the sense that they are given a score based on their performance, where gaining points encourages repeated behavior and losing points is basically telling the software "don't do this again it's bad for you", which is simmilar to what a pain signal accomplishes. ie: If you wanted to make a software that needs to preserve the integrity of a physical body it controls, you'd send a signal when it falls or get stabbed to tell it to avoid repeating this outcome, which is what pain is to us, I guess? The difference being that softwares are lacking the sentience to suffer from the pain, so should we rather ask ourselves if bugs (or the sheep) can suffer from pain? In which case I think we get stuck because what is suffering, how sentient/intelligent do you have to be to be capable of suffering? Wouldn't suffering be proportionate to the intelligence of the being that is suffering? In which case can even a bug and a computer suffer in their own way that we cannot comprehend?

[@giovannigiorgio4622]

Whats easier 1 goat or 9 goats?

[@ranran_giran]

the 9 goats will take care of each other

[@coffeebreak7668]

@@ranran_giran If you didn't say it I would have

[@twisteddman]

I hope will has fenced the goat and sheep into an small area by now - thats how you get them to eat the grass down - then you move the fence to another area

[@seldoon_nemar]

I'm worried about Nigel in William's basement after today's episode...

[@rocketamadeus3730]

He'll come out when he's ready, that just happens to coincide with when William feels like letting him.

[@JohnDoe-p4o]

It was actually darker than that. Peter did not just starve himself. He actually dove to the bottom of his aquarium and did not come back for air. Intel he suffocated.

[@Reeceander]

I introduced my friends to this podcast with this episode. I don't have friends anymore.

[@un7n0wing85]

The art piece you're thinking of at the end is called The Dream of The Fisherman's Wife. You're welcome.

[@happyskating2000]

If you were a philosophy major you definitely shared the classroom with people like William. It’s actually a lot like engineering. It can be painfully rigorous. But there’s also the “backyard philosopher” realm. Granted if you study philosophy you kind of by nature start with a shit load of history. Which is boring af even if it’s foundational material for much of our modern understanding of the world.

[@happyskating2000]

Lol I say people like William but I’m definitely thinking of one person in particular now that I think of it 😂

[@jacknikolai5416]

49:07 Allen sounds like a vault TEC

[@jacknikolai5416]

1:24 they are the worst especially in summer when they escape then get in the road if they get hit it’s your fault

[@lucagacy]

can you make it more obvious of who your guests are?

[@Trade4Lewt]

www.youtube.com/@MichelleKhare

[@jacknikolai5416]

5:34 that’s how they escaped breaking the fence they don’t care it’s electric too

[@anthonyk7924]

Koko loved Robin Williams. When she was told he had died. The signed “cry”. Robins stories about Koko was how hairy Robin was and how much Koko liked seeing Robins chest.

[@savioperera8724]

stereo is back hell yeah

[@jangrewe]

Somebody doesn't know what "scraping a webpage" means... very irritating.

[@dickjoe]

that WAS irritating!

[@doaimanariroll5121]

I’m 90% sure they’ve bullied Nigel into ending himself

[@TheSpookiestSkeleton]

I've heard a cockroach scream when it was getting ate.

[@munaq-jp]

Sorry, guys. But I think Jane Goodall has to sue you all now. It's only fair.

[@Zayllyaz]

Kevin at 37:53, nothing more

[@f3rny_66]

this is like that fly episode of breaking bad

[@m_lies]

You have something very wrong, many animals that are generally prey don't show sings of Pain or Sickness in order no not stick out as the ideal target...

[@teteeheeted]

This episode made me backtrack I have to be honest. Out of all the episodes to show my Mom…

[@ZoniesCoasters]

Every episode gets worse, keep it up!