Serenaya Reacts to "Limit Maximum - Obvious Cheater Fakes Blind Progression in FFXIV" by SimonFawkes

I tried to see it, man...but this wasn't blind. No pun intended. I'm not posting this to feed the drama, nor do I have anything against Max personally, this is just my take from uneducated start to indefensible end. Please watch the whole thing or at least skip to the second half since my final view changes quite rapidly and I'm too lazy to edit in a clip of the moment I came off the copium lmao. We read some comments at the end, too.
Original Video - • Limit Maximum - Obviou...
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[@ember-evergarden]

That's why when Limit did Asphodelos he came up with 0 strats the entire tier and kept his mouth shut. No guides for him to look up. lmfao

[@klopfer14000]

Whats extra funny is that a few days before this video came out Max was on Frostys podcast and was quite fervent in his belief that players who don't go in blind are robbing themselves of an amazing experience xD

[@davidepannone6021]

That dude must be real fun to hang around huh. Imagine even caring lol

[@lostsoldier415]

Laughing at “maybe its a weird limit break boss” literally the ONLY boss in the game that does this and you have no way to know this unless you know that specific mechanic that only this boss has

[@Sammysnows]

usually, there is a warning "transcend your limit" but if you talking on A12 then it is just a trial and error because it's the first time Senix introduce boss require tank lb3 to survive in Normal mode. (T12 is actually the first but nobody doing it because it is too damn hard for casual raider)

[@HopSkipandaRump]

@@Sammysnows it wasnt about the tank lb tho, the whole "dont lb" thing was about how WoL will use hallowed ground if you use a dps lb on him and he isnt casting/has not already used HG

[@Sammysnows]

@@HopSkipandaRump Ohh that part now it make sense, my mind somehow went to the ultimate crossover part

[@shadowace940]

I'm pretty sure I was in his chat at the time and he told chat he had done that fight before. Or maybe it was E1S. Either way, he did say he did the earlier fights already. I wasn't paying too much attention so I could be misremembering.

[@switters8679]

@@shadowace940 You are an idiot or a liar. Which one do you prefer, I do not mind either one.

[@salami155]

Him talking shit about a community(FF14) as to why he wouldn't play the game, then decides to play it, engaging for the first time with the community by putting on a "blind progression showcase", making money off the new viewers... then finding out he's just a liar. This is why people are mad. Many people welcomed him into the community but it turns out he was just a bad actor. This is not how you make friends. It also validates all the social media trolls in the FF14 community who try to spread fear about the big bad WoW players. When THEE WoW Player comes over to play FF and proves them right, it's so very very disappointing.

[@arseniykorchevskiy1564]

This just seems so weird to me, I don’t think using guides is wrong whatsoever and I do it all the time, but lying to make it seem like you are just figuring shit out like a 5 head just comes off very disingenuous and like he is trying to seem like he is way better than he is. I personally don’t like his stream due to this and a few other things, but I still hope he continues playing the game and whether or not he uses a guide or not in the future, i just hope he is honest about it. I also don’t think trying to get him to admit he lied is ever going to work out, we can just hope to nudge him toward revealing if/when he or his group is using a guide in the future.

[@vonvon1960]

Guides are especially encouraged if you're a tank/healer.

[@dabooz8893]

He did it for the content and to try to show people that he is a super smart raid leader.

[@Lost_01]

Jesus Christ the most annoying thing to me is Max’s clear need to feel like he’s the smartest one on the team. “No I get it too!” Like he’s the only one allowed to explain mechanics and shitting on his teammates

[@Lost_01]

Like he can’t just let his teammate have a win he’s gotta prove he understood it too.

[@xanione____2354]

You care way too much abou others

[@Lost_01]

@@xanione____2354 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@HERO-zy6bg]

That bothered me the most. He even tried cornering his own teammates when they understood mechanics that had appeared in other content (tethers).

[@vdinh143]

Which is what made me appreciate Scripe a hundredfold more as a leader. He played a backseat role (BLM), did his job and let the team do their job. Roger would do callouts because he was good at callouts and whoever had mechanics input would come forward with it.

[@arseniykorchevskiy1564]

predicting e10s savage from normal mode, the warrior of light stuff, and ramuh were the most obvious to me

[@TamotojiTukamo]

Sfia probably knows it too but he didn't want to call them out

[@mukstar]

I bet limit max was worried when echo started to raid in FFXIV, the difference between the two groups is night and day and any non FFXIV could probably tell who is truly blind after watching both groups.

[@zanagi]

truuu

[@vdinh143]

It wasn't Echo. I mean, it might've been part of it but this behavior started after their terrible night in E2s (very very early on). He felt humiliated by how slow the entire team was and his attitude towards his team (especially his healers) spoke volumes about what he was about to do.

[@wackantheduck6883]

Max, the raiding savant, is simply more intelligent than the entirety of every group that has progged e8s. He figures out the easy mechanics of this baby game in seconds since his constantly expanding brain mass is filled with hardcore literally impossible wow mythic raid mechanics (not being handheld by DBM, STOP FUCKING BULLYING ME , THOMAS). FFXIV players need to simply stop being so sensitive and accept that Max, the raiding savant is simply too powerful for their weebcringe game, they also need to put up with his "true and real, but harsh" opinions or accept the judgement of his benevolent moderators.

[@neopolitaneagle212]

dam u mad

[@wowitsfrostygames155]

@@neopolitaneagle212 2 weeks late but enjoy your r/whoosh

[@neopolitaneagle212]

@@wowitsfrostygames155 o i know just doing this shit for fun

[@wowitsfrostygames155]

@@neopolitaneagle212 mmm makes sense

[@jamiestwrt]

Lmao 🤣 xdddd

[@vv0sans693]

47:11 “… you know how embarrassing it would be that it take us sometimes like a full day to kill ?” Yeah, you’re right, that’d be pretty embarrassing.

[@ViciousCatz]

Well, when he did the ex of the two new trial, he brought along people who knew the mechanics, quota "just tell me where to go or im just gonna follow" he never intends to do anything blind, its sad, was hoping for a good blind prog, since echo isn't playing for a while

[@hannasaynwittgenstein-berl6931]

echo is back, but sadly they are not streaming their group 1st clear because half of the group (iirc meeres,tobo, and zhatsi) cleared them on PF with rando but there's panda normal together P.S : they are looking for dedicated crafter who can pentameld for their WFR if you interested

[@arseniykorchevskiy1564]

Also, the point with the clouds of darkness was that 1. he started talking as if he’s had a revelation before he actually sees that the cloud was being slowed and 2. he said you slow it by standing in front of it which is a very specific thing with moving objects in this game and you would expect him to assume to stand inside of it and not in front of it. This isn’t damning by itself, but considering the other clips combined with that it was the first pull of normal AND that he didn’t even do CT, which first shows you that mechanic, seems pretty bad.

[@TheRealLink]

One of the only times you actually do that is in WoD so yeah, unless he had knowledge about that without firsthand doing it, it's odd.

[@Kijokobodo79]

I've been playing since stormblood and i did not know you can slow down the cloud lmao.

[@Switch72nd]

@@TheRealLink They have all played the game before, this wasn't their first time playing 14, there's no reason to think that they wouldn't have gotten cloud of darkness in the roulette before. I've watched Max do WF races many times before, he does pick shit up pretty fast. But there are some things that are kinda shady. Honestly I think he was just using Cactbot vs looking at a guide.

[@Umbrellify]

didnt think this was legit at all but those SoS clips.. ouch. also lol at THD getting called out by max/wow andys for calling out mechanics that appear in 7 different skirmishes/dungeons/alliance raids. saw it happen continuously in chat for things as ridiculous as 'stack markers where u stay for a couple hits'

[@andrewshandle]

The fact that he pulled out "maybe there's a checkpoint like the Sha of Fear" when that raid that came out in November 2012 and thinking that nobody would think it was weird is bonkers.

[@NoEphingIdea]

what a profoundly stupid comment lol... the guy lives and breathes wow, remembering a fight from a decade ago isn't that crazy for anyone with a normal functioning brain

[@CineGoodog]

Also props to you to react to this and not turn a blind eye like most FFXIV streamers, you got my sub and my respect.

[@shakeweller]

As a former WoW player, I'm extremely disappointed because I used to look up to max

[@drewblock1365]

Thing is, when he denies his group watching vods, he specifically says how embarrassing it would be if they 'all' looked up the videos.

[@AlexxxxAlpha]

Majority of vets, hardcore or casual raiders, would agree that he is a fraud when he said he was blind progging. We are not blind and ignorant to make us believe that he was indeed not lying.

[@DakonBlackblade2]

Its obvious Max has an ego, he made a point to use as many UI mods as possible just to irk ppl and say how much better his UI was over the default one.

[@tomahawklegend]

...or he's played wow forever with that UI and he prefers it, irrespective of what other people think.

[@DakonBlackblade2]

@@tomahawklegend Nope its pretty clear he did it to irk everyone, he made a point to tell ppl so at every opportunity he had. His UI also looked nothing like a WoW one, it looked like a carnival lol. Even Sfia was somewhat uncomfortable with the lengths he was going to mod everything in the game after awhile. Do you think it is normal for someone to join a new game he knows disallows addons and the community has a very anti addon mindset (for the most part) then instantly go into contact with the addon developers just so he could use as many as possible and help develop new ones without even trying to use the default settings first ? None of the Echo ppl even bothered wasting 1 second with addons lol.

[@tomahawklegend]

@@DakonBlackblade2 I mean personally I like the look of his UI just because it's similar to ElvUI in WoW. Having tried out FF for a while myself I've find the playerbase to be very aggressive about people doing things differently and this seems to be one of those cases.

[@kovacsbenjamin7960]

@@tomahawklegend def. ui settings are crazy detailed. You can do basically any layout with that and ui macros. The only thing you can't change is the default ui skin.

[@osheri6265]

@@DakonBlackblade2 leave addons out of it, that's a pretty cooked take. Do you think sfia and co isn't using XIVAlexander and a VPN to gain an advantage? Addons don't make you a god they just allow you to customise how you get the information the game is giving you in a preferable manner. If you want to use some shit UI with horrible textures and horrible party frames then nobody is stopping you, but you cant shit on players that want to have a clean looking UI. Now if they bring a DBM like addon into this game then we can discuss this again as that is giving you an advantage, which then means everyone needs to start using it which then means the developers need to balance mechanics around it. But customising your debuffs to look how you want them to look and position where you want them isn't going to make you a god. Its just preference.

[@greatgoatsby3068]

Max vs Scripe is like night and day in terms of personality and being genuine. I tried giving Limit a try but Max and that chick were too much to take in terms of their ffxiv raids. Also big shocker: "TOP TIER WOW RAIDER LIES TO HIS STREAM AUDIENCE?" yeah no shit considering it's Max.

[@CineGoodog]

Does he lies often to his audience? Tell more.

[@sgt391]

Sfia clearly knew by watching it (not that he teached Max), but he called him out only when it was too obvious

[@nthnthms1212]

I like how Simon started showing questionable sus and ramped it up blatant sus.

[@vc4961]

Pretty obvious it wasn't 100% blind, don't at me.

[@dabK3r]

one does not simply write "dont @ me" xD

[@CineGoodog]

I watched him 1 day doing Shiva and saw the uptime kb mirrors and said "nope, that's BS"

[@smurfaccount9269]

@

[@SimonTang8484]

I wish more raiders would react to this original video and call him out for the fraud he is like you did. I have nothing against other WOW players (Love Echo's stream BTW), but what Max did as an individual is unacceptable and more people should know about this. Somehow most streamers tried to avoid this topic fearing it would affect their own channel performance...what a shame.

[@Serenaya]

Well my intention was not to call out directly or make it seem like I have some personal grudge. I don't dislike Max objectively, I don't even know the guy and stream personalities are not necessarily who they actually are, so my judgement of him (as mentioned in the video) is limited to this incident alone and not indicative of how I feel about him as a person. I absolutely disagree with how he went about this and I hope he'll do better in the future, but I don't think a slip-up like this means that he is a bad person on the whole, though I realise those that have known about him longer have a different view and that's fine. However yes, I do say how I feel and I do come at things from my honest perspective. I'm not really bothered by people disagreeing with me, in fact I actively encourage discussion because I think it's healthy to be upfront and to not hide.

[@MrAngryMonkey100]

I called him for it and the FFxiv savage raiders blacklisted me for it

[@PCMRvsconsole]

@@MrAngryMonkey100 Why do ff14 raiders kiss max's ass?

[@MrAngryMonkey100]

@@PCMRvsconsole because he can get away with things that the rest of the community is not allowed to do...

[@sgt391]

@@PCMRvsconsole didn't many of them reacted to his "blind progress"?

[@vdinh143]

The benefit of the doubt that stems from Max being an intelligent player falls apart when you watch him for hours upon hours and try to understand him and WoW for days and weeks and essentially have no choice but to conclude that he is not an intelligent player; just an egotistical one.

[@nathana5718]

I think there are plenty of other conclusions to draw.

[@yabiyabi]

I wonder if you or anyone else could answer; in hindsight was he as intelligent on WOW too or was he able to pull the same trick but without being caught?

[@nathana5718]

@@yabiyabi His guild was consistently in the running for world first and took home the first US title in I think 8 years. What are you meaning to say? Have you listened to him speak about WoW or just came here to trash him?

[@nathana5718]

@@yabiyabi I think its important to note that WoW doesnt have an equivalent to “blind raiding” as FF does

[@yabiyabi]

@@nathana5718 I see.! That is so strange to read ^^;

[@hellsing154]

I remember when this video came out and stopped at the first one that he was lying about his prog. Im sorry theres no way you gleamed all that information in 2 seconds of seeing them. If he said have to kill the clouds it be one thing but how the mechanic works 100% on the savage version on first pull of normal is stupid. Than the limit break niche just nails that coffin shut so hard. You can not blind guess that niche of a mechanic. Its supposed to take you by surprise 100%

[@stardustdragonx3612]

Yeah Max is a fraud.

[@chadikhr7258]

clear as day he's not going in blind in these fights

[@ManhNguyen-vd5qj]

We'll find out if he's legit when the new Savage raids comes out. But I'm in the camp that he totally look things up.

[@cainstuart2681]

He already said he'd copy whoever was ahead of him

[@Ddista]

@@cainstuart2681 which is sus if you think about it, I mean all his talk about blind progression and "no backseating/mentoring" then straight up stating that he's just gonna copy anyone ahead of them

[@flarierza33]

What does he gain from faking it though? Nothing. I don’t see any reason why he would fake it. And he only said he was blind progressing the eden raids.

[@Ddista]

@@flarierza33 ego

[@Ddista]

@@flarierza33 ask tourself, what was his reason for blind prog in the first place? why emphasize so much on the importance of blind prog only to openly admit afterward that he won't be blind progging going forward. heck, why do any of us blind prog

[@duo1666]

Havnt watched all of the video yet, but i want to comment on the cheating being inflammatory or unfair as a descriptor; If the event was advertised as everyone doing it completely blind, then yes, its completely fair to say it is cheating to have someone not be blind. They set the rules of what was going on by advertising it as blind, so not following through is cheating according to their own standards. Edit; After watching the video i can confirm cheating is the most appropriate word to use. The rules were set to be blind, he clearly wasnt doing it blind. He cheated. Period. You can even claim he cheated the game itself since it looks like he had a parser loaded. So he cheated in every sense of the term.

[@xanione____2354]

Wtf? You good?

[@duo1666]

@@xanione____2354 Yeah? I mean, i only stated the truth.

[@xanione____2354]

@@duo1666 but why do you care tho? Why does Max watching guides in a fucking video game makes you so mad, you being general like this comment section

[@Zakjuh]

@@xanione____2354 Because Max himself made it important, dumb Max shill.

[@duo1666]

@@xanione____2354 Im not mad, i dont even know who that idiot is nor do i care about him. But its clear he disappointed a shit ton of people who were told they would get a specific experience, were excited for said experience, and were completely denied that experience because the person straight up lied.

[@highfiveguy]

Really appreciated how you gave Max the benefit of the doubt for as long as you possibly could. Would have been a lot easier to just agree with chat (who had already seen the whole video). Honestly, seeing you go from "well he's a very good WoW player so maybe he could figure some of this stuff out" to "... okay he's definitely using guides and lying" is probably just as damning as the video itself. Just like you, I lost a ton of respect for Max after seeing this.

[@andrewshandle]

So I agree with your point that the other players were probably playing blind and getting big boosts in their stream, so I imagine didn't feel comfortable calling him out. Plus none of them would do it live anyway, that's the kind of thing you'd do privately, and if tells you he's not cheating, I imagine they'd believe him because they played with him for dozens, if not well over one hundred, hours. The problem is when you look back on it all edited like this and realize, yeah there's no way he'd know this stuff, _especially_ when his solutions are basically identical to PUG strategies. The irony of course is, let's say they go slower by doing it actually blind, that's another few weeks of high stream counts and a chance to get even more fans, while doing it fast might feed the ego, I'm not sure it was actually beneficial at all. Nice video, it was probably best to leave it as it was because I do think it's important to give people the benefit of the doubt, but by the end you saw what I saw in the video, nobody is that good/lucky/perfect on guesses based off zero information...and it's impossible if said person hasn't actually played the game before to use as framework for their guesses. As I said in my other comment when "maybe this is like that one raid boss from WoW that was released a decade ago" as the reasoning behind a decision and his own people started calling "copium" on it was the icing on the cake for me...and that was even before the LB stuff. ;)

[@niksolu]

Max is now kinda butthurt. Instead of proving people wrong in pandemonium savage he and his group had a 9th member who looked for guides and watched others streams...

[@PaulSmith-fd2gy]

Also kinda passively trying to make this game seem like its easy and simple to figure out. This is normal behavior from alot of high end wow players. Not all but alot of fucking ego in that game.

[@Froggsroxx]

He cheated himself of the experience. I feel bad for his group because he tainted their experience by not letting them fully figure it out as a group.

[@Elyndyr]

For him they were just tools he could use to jerk off his ego unfortunately.

[@sgt391]

His premise: "you don't like me", "FF community is toxic" Still he, nor any streamer is reacting to this. Now I know he's a lier, in wow or any game.

[@FahadGG1]

Only in echo I trust

[@FieryFoxGirl]

The most egregious part of the whole thing to me was him pretending he came up with uptime knockback mirrors but not understanding the finer mechs of it and getting his smn killed by not moving LOL. Either that or intentional to make it look more fakely blind. Both ways annoying

[@rexex345]

Serenaya, props for playing devils advocate... As hard as it must have been.

[@Serenaya]

I just didn't know, man, and despite everyone saying it I wanted to see it for myself. I hadn't watched much or seen the clips as I said. I try and be reasonable wherever possible but I just couldn't by the end. Way, way too convenient sadly.

[@rexex345]

@@Serenaya oh I know how you feel, i was skeptical and keeping an eye out too, but as I watched it was just impossible after a point. Admittedly, for me I caught on to something not being right cause when I tried this tier, I was still legally blind and thus really had to learn the pug straits, so alarm bells kinds started sounding when I saw those same strays pop up... An no I'm not even going to pretend I'm good enough to do this myself, I failed to prog farther than e10s and straight up passed on SoS.

[@Serenaya]

You should do SoS Ex one day. Very cool fight, easily the best extreme of the whole expansion in my opinion!

[@rexex345]

@@Serenaya admittedly after my last trip to the optician, turns out playing FF14 since I started at shadowbringers' launch and actively trying to raid actually fixed what was wrong with my eyes... And my optician has mandated I need to clear the next savage when that comes out to see how much of an improvement has been made... Which is going to be a pain cause all the Light DC statics want at minimum e12s clears or ultimate clears... So that's gonna be a whole thing on of itself. 😭 But lord knows once I've gotten endwalker done first thing I'm doing is making a of for SoS cause, yeah, why not.

[@Serenaya]

Wow, that's quite something! Fellow Light gamer too, bonus points! Best of luck, friend.

[@erdbeerpanda1804]

I don't care if people watch guides or do the content blind, to each their own. What bugs me is his "holier than thou"-attitude, and telling everyone that blind is pretty much the only way, while obviously informing himself beforehand of the mechanics. SoS being a great example. There is no way, you would know he can use Hallowed Ground against a DPS Limit break. So his acting of, they shouldn't LB because the boss is weird, is suspicious af, but what gave it off for me, was his surprised reaction and asking if the boss took damage. Like, just think about it. That reaction would NEVER come into your mind if you didn't know, the boss can do it. You would just use LB without a doubt.

[@Sammysnows]

the only thing i now somethings is definitely not right is the second he figure out lion in a mere second. my first blind run this, our static literally face the cone away from the middle Which means if DPS has it say goodbye for your uptime melee. and the big lion were our big obstacle because we don't want to face it to the tethers, and it took us 3 lockout to know that you can literally aim it to outside

[@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773]

I mean, its not hard to think that Max is a liar anyway..."World First" WoW raiders use DBM and Weak Auras to tell them how to defeat the boss in the the first place. So in essence they are never doing WoW raids blind...so why expect someone like max to do them blind in FFXIV.

[@kovacsbenjamin7960]

Oh man I'm so tired of the fake hype around WoW streamers "learning" ffxiv xd I'm so happy that this game is not made for twitch streamers to boost sales with the manufactured hype of world first races.

[@Serenaya]

I hate to break it to you but the hype around world first races on this game is only going to grow now that it's gained so much more attention. The upcoming savage tier for example is probably going to be the most popular one yet. It's a good thing considering that raiding needs more attention if there's ever going to be more raid content here, if such a possibility were to exist.

[@kovacsbenjamin7960]

@@Serenaya oh there will be hype, sure. That's not what I thought about. The game is not made with the same mindset as WoW. Everything is tested on the PTR there. It's basically a race about who can spend more gold on resources on the live servers. So boosting for resource is absolutely accepted there even by blizzard. And now it's a common thing between casual players too. Who wouldn't do it if that's what they see from the top players? You can pay irl money for gold in the store and buy a full clear for anything. And there's the other thing with MDI, the failed e-sport attempt by the company. Blizzard tried to monetize the shit out of the hype around pve and it's a big part why the game is in the current state. That's why I don't care much about the world first race hype. Yoshi P can do whatever the fuck he wants with the game and it's brilliant so far but realistically SE can easily fuck it up anytime (it wouldn't be the first time for the company) once they see the opportunity to milk the growing playerbase. tldr, I don't want to see ffxiv slowly turning into WoW and that's why I'm so sceptical about the top 1% wow refugees and world first races. :D

[@kovacsbenjamin7960]

@@Serenaya it's not releated to the world first race at all but the CEO of SE just announced that the company will focus on the NFT and blockchain gaming trend and it's a major red flag for ffxiv. The community is not happy. I told you, SE can fuck it up anytime with shitty monetization plans . And it's already happening. :D

[@stevenalvarez2924]

"If" they played the game from the beginning, chances are they would of completed the savage runs in less then half the time they do now because FFxiv uses our familiarity to mechanics to let us know what is coming.

[@KazaarTV]

damn he so good at predicting, maybe he should do this for p1-4 now so we know exactly what will be there next week ;D

[@Salt_Mage]

Funnily enough they had a 9th person watching other streamers to take their strats. Also there was no "hold up hold up" from Max in Pandemonium funnily enough.

[@laughingoctopus785]

@@Salt_Mage ya i saw that .. it was so cringe .. i dont get it why would anyone want to be a 9th on the first week?? and streaming it too lmao

[@XCC23]

@@laughingoctopus785 TPS also had a 9th man. Let's not pretend that's weird. The weird thing is using the 9th to look up other people's strats when you've previously insisted that the fun part is working out mechanics.

[@laughingoctopus785]

@@XCC23 comparing TPS to these guys lol chill .. as much as i dont agree with some of sifa or sindalf takes but they are still pretty good at the game .. max is pretty average and he is already past the point of being new to the game

[@laughingoctopus785]

just checked his logs and i take back what i said about him being average he is way worse than average

[@Enomino1]

Banned from Max's chat because in Scripe's chat, i questioned max's "blind prog" to Echo's being vastly different and questioning whether or not max actually blind progged. So yeah. I was banned from Max's chat for having an opinion on Scrip's chat. The pettiness and the fragile ego that max has is amazing

[@johnnyhoang7388]

Why did you even bother going back to Max's chat after you knew he cheated? You were going to expose him in his chat?

[@Enomino1]

​@@johnnyhoang7388 In the beginning i was actually excited to watch max and his group prog. But the more i watched, the more i questioned. It was from how quickly Max and the ninja in his group, Seralene(sp?), would figure mechanics out after seeing it once or twice. And not simple mechanics, but some of the complex one, in addition to the ones mentioned in this vid. They would know details of the mechs that they havent even seen in full but was so sure that "it has to be that, i bet thats how it works". But even up to that point, it was still speculation on my part. Even when i mentioned it in Scripe's chat (What i said was a statement that compared how much more genuine Echo's blind progs felt compared to Max's group), it was still a statement of speculation. I didnt know for sure, but Max's groups just felt suspicious. But that comparison and speculation in another person's twitch chat was still enough to trigger Max's to ban me his. Its okay because by that point i wasnt even watching Max anymore. I dont really care to watch him or his group. Like others have said before, he is very elitist and has an ego. He wants everyone to remember he is a WFR level WoW raider, stating it in his streams every chance he can to justify why he is so 1k IQ big brain. Its just too cringe to watch anymore. But thats just my opinion. If others like his stream, well, thats good on them.

[@luuxii]

Same, but I mentioned the vid in no way hostile manner ln Preach's chat and I got banned from Max's chat, also denied my appeal. The mods are the worst copium nutjobs.

[@kitten1591]

I know these clips are only of Max, but it does seem to show Max specifically coming up with answers and strats to mechanics, just like that. No one is that big brain 5head just after seeing it a 2nd time. It's kinda sus that it's always the same person that seems to figure all this stuff out...

[@Oyst8Y6h]

I think the original vid got a lot of views since it spoke out the questions and sus a lot of new viewers had, but your vid I think shows what the attitude most ppl should have. Personally I watched most limit and echo. As a long time xiv players who knew nothing abt wow streamers, my only problem was the way max talked to scripe after echo cleared e4s. For me he lost my respect on e8s LR insisting hourglass when they did square and hadn’t even 2nd sets of tower as everyone know, square totally works (aka ilya). I still enjoyed watching since their journey reminded me when my static did these fights just those claims and attitude is kinda annoying.

[@crystalgoddess4085]

The WoL part gives him away 100%, no other footage needs to be shown. There is absolutely no way that anyone going into Seat of Sacrifice blind would know that he casts Hallowed Ground if you cast an LB while he is not casting anything, as that is the only fight with that mechanic. That would be akin to immediately figuring out Eden Titan's "Massive Landslide" blind, as it's basically the reverse of normal Titan's Landslide, instead of a line directly in front being the area to avoid, it's the safe zone.

[@Lilybellmusic]

I still think even that has 1% chance of being genuine reaction. No other boss casts limit break and has LBs are part of their cast, so it is very unlikely, but still possible, that he guessed may be something will happen if LB is used on the boss. However, the sword triangle attack is actually indefensible. He couldn't possibly know unless he watched a guide that 1. sword will be moving, 2. there will be multiple swords (which in normal there wasn't), and 3. there will be a safespot. Even the fastest strategist needs to see the sword create at least 2 sides of the triangle to know that you need to be outside of it.

[@Koranthus]

@@Lilybellmusic also my thing with that mechanic is knowing to stand outside instead of inside. It could go either way if you are blindly doing it.

[@HikingFeral]

It's for 1 of 2 reasons , 1) - They are doing it on purpose to try and make Wow seem super hard and Wow's raiders to be amazing gods at gaming or 2) - he wants people to think he is a total chad at any raiding, in any game, without even practicing, he wants them to think that they reside in the deepest pits of the seventh hell, whilst he looks down upon them from the very pinnacle of the heavens! - I mean when you literally have to cheat to get people to think you are completing content for the first time, it's time to hang up the towel and stop streaming, don't stop playing and enjoying games but stop streaming them because you are a liar and a thief and not an intellectual.

[@kye4216]

I imagine it was to gain a small mental edge over Echo. For example say Echo spent 8 hours figuring out a boss and then they see Liquid do it in 45 minutes.

[@OhSunchips]

Yeah, I was thinking it's either to make FFXIV look super easy compared to WoW, that a WoW raider could figure stuff out in a pull or two and clear the fights in record time, or that they wanted to shit on Echo and look like the superior team, like 'look how long it took Echo, we're so much better we found this out in literally one pull' Or that Max needs to feed his ego so badly that he just does it for himself so people think he's the literal best raider ever, meanwhile what would he be without plugins and a team of analysts and programmers.

[@kzkaa.]

off topic, but I see what you did there

[@eska4511]

Today I learnt WoL casts hallowed ground if you LB him. nice.

[@nikki2220]

i talked to a lot of WoW raiders with multiple years of XP which haven't touched FF once. When I showed them some fights in FF in normal I wanted them to predict any Savage mechanics. No one got even close to what he said. This is completly BS from him.

[@SaloMatt]

The major telling thing with the e9 clouds for me is that he stands in the cloud, but somehow figured out that it's a line of sight from the boss rather than proximity.

[@MrAngryMonkey100]

but that mechanic only shows up in WOD 24 man..How would he know that E9S mechanic if he didn't run the alliance raid?

[@Switch72nd]

@@MrAngryMonkey100 They've all played the game before, no reason to think they wouldn't have done cloud of darkness at one point or another while leveling and doing roulettes.

[@AdiosSalvi]

Every time I type limit maxium the algorithm gives me cheating after his name LOL

[@SkogenWhisper]

of course he got something out of "cheating"... he was able to get more viewers interested in his streams, which ultimately results in a monetary and ego boost.

[@Asin24]

I mean if you state you are blind progging, and then you look at a strat then effectively you are cheating. That said I think it would be better to say he was a Liar over calling him a Cheater.

[@CineGoodog]

when you set rules for yourself and your team and you break the rules that is 100% cheating. I don't know where you guys get your concept of cheating.

[@doolioart3314]

You can cheat in multiple ways, depending on the context. In this case, lying about this specific element IS cheating. By definition. Let me paste an example from my other comment: If I announce I'm doing some "eat only one egg a day and gain 20 pounds in a month" challenge and then I gorge myself at McDonald's everyday, wouldn't "cheating" be an appropriate term to use? I cheated, I did thing x that was forbidden to do by the rules set by whoever (in this case, me). This is the same thing. Would you not call me eating at mcdonalds cheating in the challenge above? I know you're not saying it isn't, but I see zero need to ponder over the usage of the term or muse about it being clickbait etc. It's a very simple case of cheating, it's not some complex take full of nuance. It's normal to call it cheating.

[@firefox30570]

With the information given, yea, id say its very likely he knew about the mechanics.

[@angrytwitch5128]

I have farmed SOS 20 times and i didn't know about that mechanic. lol

[@sfcpudding]

You apologize for it at the end, but I actually super appreciated your approach to this. Giving benefit of the doubt at first, assuming he was acting in good faith, but being willing to change your mind when presented with evidence to the contrary is, imo, how people should operate in basically all cases.

[@aarongeorge4885]

Guys. The problem with this is that he lied an said he is doing blind prog when he clearly watched a guide..NOTHING IS WRONG WITH LOOKING AT A GUIDE TO CLEAR CONTENT TO COLLECT YOUR LOOT.

[@MrAngryMonkey100]

It is wrong to make a claim you are doing blind prog then you look at a guide. IMO you make a public statement as Maxx did and then reneged on the said statement. A person with integrity would follow through after making that statement. and as the video proves Maxx has no integrity or the care of the 7 other people's experiences he has ruined to fuel his ego (which is overinflated)

[@MrAngryMonkey100]

but it's ok because he is a "savage raider" he can say and do no wrong...

[@kinglouiethe2nd]

I just feel like wow is such a complicated game they are already one up on this game. Wow is insanely complicated with the mechanics.

[@imilkynote]

THE CHAT: "GET OFF THE COPIUM" lmaoooooo

[@aeveriezussia6676]

it's not just the viewers he's lying to. It's all the people in that static that wanted to blind prog. He took away 7 peoples time of fun they can never get back, that's what I think is the biggest problem!

[@RealTaIk]

"hold up" is something I ususally hear from cheaters, like "clara"

[@apexreactions4231]

I mean it’s by definition cheating even if you don’t include the use of addons as cheating. It’s presented as a blind prog challenge, and because it isn’t blind, it’s literally cheating. Sugarcoating it like that is just weird.

[@itsspookie]

Serenya our streamer who doesn't clout chase and not afraid to talk about this while other FFXIV streamers dont wanna touch it. Love you Fam

[@cashnelson2306]

good lord imagine giving a shit about who does and doesn't comment on this

[@edagos391]

hey this wasn't bad usually these type of stuff tend to go to weird places but honestly you handled the whole thing very well i hope nothing but comes of this to anyone

[@serpently9404]

No wonder why they disbanded after

[@DekkarJr]

ooo ima change my names to that pink color u got :) its soothing

[@brikaro1]

I'm almost positive that he saw vods of a lot of the fights when his friends were pitching him the game to play, and that's fine but he clearly wasn't progging blind like Echo was.

[@NirvashAokai]

Just wow, Max did not go into these blind. This man must think we are all stupid lmao.

[@nataliet4293]

I've fallen so far down the react to ff pipeline. This is about as good as people seeing emet for the first time in SoS.

[@Smartiezs]

Serenaya losing hope in humanity in one hour

[@mbarkmkm6654]

the only way this will be confirmed or not .. is with the new EW raids lets see him figure out those raids at THAT rate XD

[@CorrupTed666ersdg]

How you know that ... How would you know I know that .... end discussion....lol

[@benelemenope1625]

nice prog of emotions here :D

[@hewshack23]

what gives him away for me is the E10s

[@zhongjie]

Limit and Echo are not on the same level. Much to the same vein as Max saying they're just going to copy the most progressed team for endwalker progression that's what they do in wow too, hence ending up 2nd vs Method/Echo in almost every raid tier except two when Method was embroiled in their controversy and disbanded. Also Method/Echo being EU have a full day of handicap as server resets on Tuesday for NA and Wednesday for EU and they still can't win

[@hannasaynwittgenstein-berl6931]

i don't know about on WoW but i do agree on FFXIV, they are clearly not on same level. the fact that echo can go blind,Craft their own Strat, and execute everything by themselve while Max snipe every strat from other team,literaly hold their prog so someone can write a guide for him, and having 9th person and somehow Echo were ahead on kill until Last boss is actually insane

[@ideliv3r673]

Lol, you're clearly just super butthurt about this. You have 0 idea what you're talking about in the race to world first. Limit starts first, which means they get to pretty much every boss first, which means that they're the ones adjusting strats from the PTR, not Echo. This means Echo can just hard copy their strats/adjustments for any boss that causes issues and save time. Also, since Limit gets to a boss first, if that boss is bugged/overtuned (there's usually always one or two bosses that need to be adjusted in some way) they literally have to waste time on it while all the other guilds catch up. Secondly, since Limit have been actually able to day raid they've done exceptionally well in WoW. They always branded themselves as hardcore guild, but it really wasn't until like 4-5 tiers ago that they even had a legitimate shot to compete with Method/Echo since they literally could not raid the same # of hours as them to finish out the first week. For example, the first tier of the last expansion, they literally couldn't pull the final boss, that they had down to sub 1%, because they were missing key players on the last day of progress. The only time the server reset *ever* favors Limit would be if the raid is incredibly easy/short, which *never* happens anymore. OR if the end boss of the tier cannot be killed with week 1 gear, and requires a reclear to kill. This has also not been the case for a LOOONG time. Every end boss is essentially killable week one. Also, Limit lost the most recent race because they were down 2 entire guild wide ilvls to Echo on a boss they essentially had to sub 1% HP remaining. It's absolutely their fault because they didn't run as many splits as Echo did in preparation, but if they had those ilvls the DPS check for the final boss would have been infinitely easier for them to hit and I can't see a possible world where they don't kill the boss first. TLDR: Echo and Limit are both incredible guilds and to say either is 'not on the same level' as the other is completely absurd.

[@laughingoctopus785]

@@ideliv3r673 wrong xD .. they mostly struggle on DPS checks and how to get more gear for the raiders.. the one day is a huge advantage and most hard mechanics are 99% on the last two bosses in the wow raids.. despite this advantage NA is almost always losing the race .. and even if there was an issue with a boss , usually happen, it would just balance the scales a bit .. one day advantage is always better no matter how much copium you inhale .... TLDR: limit = JG BEANSWORTH LMAO

[@ideliv3r673]

You actually said nothing of value there aside from "I'm right you're wrong". You didn't even mention anything that would be a counterpoint to anything I said, lol. Copium? I prefer watching Naow and Gingi, but that doesn't change the fact that Limit has just been playing better as a complete guild in most of the more recent tiers.

[@laughingoctopus785]

@@ideliv3r673 if it doesnt matter switch the one day around and lets see how NA reacts quit ur bs

[@holmesholmes.8784]

oh come on max, why would you do this, you were doing so well

[@fervelozart3284]

You say it, this guys are the best on wow using add ons on raid, without that this guys are trash raiding on wow. So to me this guys are so fake. And only jump to the hype to gain some money.

[@matthewmccaghren163]

While I agree that he didn't do this blind. This is a bad take. Max and his guys in his guild write the scripts for the add-ons used during those fights. Those all come from the world first scene

[@cashnelson2306]

Lmaooo yeah that SOS ex clip is a hot, smoking gun. Absolutely hilarious that Max was a name known to FF players for like, 3 days before he had a reputation as an asshole lmao

[@AgentRood]

Don't know why this video came up on my timeline, but I'm amused watching the copium tank slowly run out...

[@yabiyabi]

a small critic on you reacting to others video; don't forestall in commentary before watching it longer. You seem to go on a banter before the video and every few seconds in the video with questions obviously the answer will be given in the video. Just a little criticism but otherwise the manner of which your attitude is and gives off is very positive so I enjoy watch Edit: I guess you realized in the end XD You are wholesome. subscribed. Hope to catch you live someday

[@Serenaya]

Your feedback is noted, thank you! Sadly what goes in head comes out of mouth a lot of the time. It's tripped me up a few times! Will keep it in mind once I'm back to reacting to stuff. Currently Endwalker has me busy with long streams that don't really have room for vid watching, for now. Soon(tm)

[@yabiyabi]

@@Serenaya Please take it not too negative, you are wholesome for wanting to give people benefit of the doubt. I too, was at the same mindset. I even worried the person who made the video would be labelled as 'jealous', but it was evidently not true. That said, enjoy your endwalker expansion, I am currently also busy with it. enjoying it and taking my time of the world hehe

[@spoopy1985]

I appreciated the commentary pauses honestly. If i had wanted to watch the original video i would've just done so

[@yabiyabi]

@@spoopy1985 Oh that's not the thing. But I get the point

[@saint3211]

Honestly, Seren saying something then being tripped up instantly after resuming the video is kind of rare but so so funny when it happens. Top tier content.

[@salviosama7942]

It's hard to make a call one way or another, when you take into consideration these guys have been theorycrafting and puzzle solving raid bosses for 15 years at a cutting edge level, and getting paid handsomely for doing so, it is plausible to think they did organically figure it out.

[@salviosama7942]

oh nevermind i was huffing cope

[@nonamiyazomo8907]

I would use the word cheating because you are cheating yourself and your static out of an experience.

[@zagorim7469]

It is cheating. Not at FFXIV but at his own challenge.

[@TyLeeslilsis]

What gets me most is the insistent uses of, "I think?" "I guess?" "Maybe?" If you're genuinely guessing, you're not going to know the exact way a mechanic works. It's going to be a guess. There's no, "Let's try this" or "What if we/you did this"... He nails the mechanic and then covers it up with making it sound like a personal guess. >.>

[@m__zombi]

Interesting video You seem cool as hell Have a sub 🤘🏻

[@suzleber4]

"I guess" is another one besides "hold up."

[@AstrumKitten091]

Since the streamer click baited i think it is only fair the callout video click baits too :p

[@casualobserver2000]

As someone who had no idea who limit max or echo were before seeing them play ff14, its clear that echo are raiding blind and this guy isnt. Any one of the things on its own you could just say "yeah good job you cracked it" but taken all together its a bit much. There never seems to be a mechanic that gets the better of him for 2-3 days the way it does for echo. Most people im sure wont care, but dont take credit you didnt earn.

[@johanthompson6819]

The scary thing is his pride will be unaffected by this coming to lite when if you did the raid blind and genuine thats a pride shot

[@Shinjiku]

My reaction to this video was pretty much identical, I'm trying to give benefit of the doubt but the video was smartly written to start with a lesser accusation and escalating from there to slowly ease people in instead of throwing the most egregious accusations to start with and padding with lesser ones.

[@4thwall826]

i read guide and never notice any debuff, the stack, the spread, the TB… and these fking gaze, fuck these gazes

[@Catlady29]

BOOOO FAKERS BOOOO GET OFF MY GAME

[@lj_aderyn]

Ngl I didn't know it was LoS in e9 I thought you just had to be standing in the same tile xD but then I haven't savage raided this tier so I guess I wouldn't have learned that

[@jamiestwrt]

What a cringe artist lmao

[@coltbusick6644]

The most tragic thing is, there’s nothing wrong with proving with a guide as long as you are honest about it. I feel like this has opened up too much drama and angst over some notion “reputation.” I’m a midcore raider who uses guides. It’s not as glamorous as Blind Prog, but it’s not as scandalous as this either.

[@crazagres1839]

Lying is supposed to have negative effect on people's opinion on you. Normal social behavior working properly is all.

[@coltbusick6644]

@@crazagres1839 oh big agree, just to clarify I meant Limit Maximum looking up guides and claiming to be blind opens up too much drama. The original video is just one of the natural consequences of why happened.

[@rusampler1877]

" "Nothing personal" "