WHY SO HEAVY!! Elden Ring weapons

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Elden Ring's weapons and combat animations get SO MUCH right and SO MUCH wrong! Let's break it all down #PopcultureWeaponsAnalysed
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[@kirinixx]

The swords weigh more than they would in real life because it also carries all the emotional weight from their previous owners

[@prometheanrebel3838]

I also think because the character we play as is technically already dead(?), and therefore, slightly weaker than an alive person.

[@bustinmcdank8429]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/naDZoXx8icefoc0

[@CIoudStriker]

And because they need to be heavier in order to hurt and/or kill bigger stuff with them.

[@Onikame]

I actually chuckled reading this

[@aganaom1712]

EMOTIONAL DAMAGE

[@WJS774]

I liked Skal's take on the greatswords; "The animations are pretty realistic and believable for someone who doesn't know how to use a sword and also picked one that is way too heavy for them."

[@WJS774]

@@nordoceltic7225 Bold of you to assume that the devs ever pick up an actual sword...

[@castform57]

@@WJS774 some studios' animation people sometimes do a bunch of research on the subjects. In fromsoft's case, they've recycled and refined a lot of what they've done in the past, so they probably didn't do a similar base research.

[@fnurglewitz]

@@nordoceltic7225 greatswords were mostly for ceremonies, in battle it was better to have something like a warhammer to crush your enemy's skull

[@Edax_Royeaux]

@@nordoceltic7225 What are you talking about? Soldiers were shorter in the past. Average height of a WWI soldier was 5 feet 7 1/2 inches tall; the average weight was 141.5 pounds. People like Arnold Schwarzenegger exist today because we no longer live in a subsistence society where 90% of the population are farmers. Even Knights would struggle to get enough food for such gains and if their serving in a Guard, they aren't going to have time to workout and rest like Schwarzenegger did. They're going to be busy standing still for most of the day guarding a Lord. And if they have to travel great distances on a horse regularly, they also aren't going to have time for a rigorous workout. It was advances in agriculture, automation and nutrition that allowed for the average human to get taller and bigger.

[@u.s.s.chucklefucker1657]

@@nordoceltic7225 Yo, thank you for your smarts, my good fellow amateur historian.

[@kountesskorvinae666]

Imagine how truly terrifying a Giant Dad build would be if they'd gotten the zweihander animation right

[@m0-m0597]

imagine they made Giant Dad a boss

[@Skylander404]

One of my headcannons when it comes to the overswinging is that in Souls games (Elden Ring included) many of the enemies you face are more akin to objects rather than human opponents. These overswings may be telegraphed and leave you open against an intelligent human opponent, but when you are fighting hulking masses of flesh, monstrous animals, and literal walking TREES then I think a bit of overswing is expected.

[@Sk0lzky]

But invasions

[@hoen2009]

@@Sk0lzky they are not going to change animations for different type of enemies. Thats way to much work.

[@BryanVonFriently]

yeah this, one things like the claymore and zweihander, yes you can manipulate them more gracefully for more accurate strikes that leave you less exposed. But when there is a 6m tall superhuman in golden armor standing in front of you the answer isnt to give them smol strikes, you go all in and hit them with everything you can manage in that short of a time, you SLAM it into them

[@Ryuksgelus]

@@hoen2009 We can hope an additional mechanic in their next fantasy game is that they include different stances/forms for the weapon classes.

[@jolonghthong5377]

In my head cannon, it’s also that these warriors are PROBABLY a little exhausted, so over winging is just gonna happen no matter what. They’re always fighting and being rebirthed to fight again.

[@TheManofThings777]

For the heavy swings for some of the attacks, I like to imagine that the reason they're so telegraphed is because in the world of Elden Ring you'll be using these to kill huge monsters half the time, as opposed to intelligent knights, so you could get away with a bit of telegraphing since you're just trying to put as much weight behind the swings as possible.

[@guilhermelamin9344]

There is a itens in the game that say that the people of elden ring used to be much more stronger maybe this is algo one of the rasons?

[@ngVAT579]

That's actually how I play! When I'm dueling human or humanish opponents I tend to use faster weapons then for big bosses I pull out the Ultra Greatswords.

[@mrhyde4732]

@@ngVAT579 I take the caveman approach, big stick crush man just as well as it crush monster.

[@ashleycrow8867]

yeah the big ass tree aint gonna dodge your attack but you need the added force

[@Gunks_]

This was my thought too. Overswing and telegraphing aren't as big a deal when you're fighting a monster that you likely couldn't parry or guard against anyways. You just want maximum damage per swing then GTFO. Still a nice analysis to see and attention to detail is never bad.

[@Hereates35]

Its not overswing she is just really angry at the air.

[@slugmanestudios768]

I just want to say that those little section you made where you show the weapons being used are extremely useful. I am an indie game developer trying to make a more historically informed third person action rpg. Pure hema is literally impossible to, the enemies wreck you so hard because they attack faster than you can react through a controller so I am calling it"stylized historical combat" I am currently working on zweihander sized weapon attacks and stances and I'm essentially just gonna animate what you did with it in this video. Thank you shad man

[@shadiversity]

My pleasure mate, I have an upcoming video where I'll be going into more detail on better medieval combat animations.

[@slugmanestudios768]

@@shadiversity thank you so much. I love that, I am a programmer and have never done art before, so the more references, the better. Thank you so much for your awesome content :)

[@loisedubois5325]

How goes the game process?

[@slugmanestudios768]

@@loisedubois5325 not great I lost a year of progress in a source control error haha

[@beansnrice321]

The Banished knight greatsword has a moveset that more closely matches the real greatsword use, you might want to check it out. It's even a great greatsword to boot!

[@MrKamillordo]

Also Knight's Greatsword, same animation. Really elegant. Looks the part, too :)

[@madkoala2130]

Those two swords i only use since they are only animations for greatswords that dont slam to the ground. Seriously Fromsoft, why couldn't you put this animation for all greatswords while those ground slams leave for ultra greatswords

[@Zeek369]

You should do an analysis of Elden Ring's castles next! There's a nice mix of history and fantasy that I feel would make for a really nice series of videos. I remember walking through the entrance of Castle Morne on the south of the Weeping Peninsula and looking at how defensible the entrance is with a walled corridor and a lift that can simply be called up and nobody is coming in through there. Also the machicolations are fake, but so are the windows (since you don't get to go inside that castle), so that's likely meant to save a few polygons and you can assume they're meant to be real.

[@Zeek369]

learned how to look at these things in castles and the word machicolations by watching your channel too, so thanks!

[@jurtheorc8117]

Clothing would be neat too. Or otherwise seeing what details there are around from olden times. For example, I noticed the Astrologer carries an astrolabium on their belt-- an actual historical multipurpose tool that's pretty nifty but really rarely shown in fiction.

[@davidbaptist96]

As a souls fan I must say I'm a bit disappointed by the progressive loss of realism of the architecture in fromsoft games. Elden Ring is full of architectural elements (castle walls, towers, houses, roofs) that would be inaccessable by design. For istance is very common to find walls with battlements (so intended to be walked on) between two towers with no doors on either tower. In Stormveil castle you can do platforming on roofs and balconies that wouldn't make any sense irl. Please not that my complaint is only about aesthetics, not gameplay: not every architectural element needs to be accessible in-game, but putting a fake door/trapdoor would go a long way to make these elements more belivable. Demon's souls was incredible in this reguard: especially in Boletaria things made a lot of architectural sense. Even shortcuts were well integrated: the shortcut in stonefang tunnel is a lift that would be used by the miners to move materials, and so on.

[@Nahinalau]

Please Shad do this! I used your castle vids as reference, I wanna see you tour Stormveil Castle!

[@devin201df]

That would be very cool

[@AnimeSquirrel]

Over swing madness aside, can we appreciate the subtle body animations such as visible wrist rolls to decent leg positioning?

[@andykegs5584]

I love seeing your perspective on this, I wouldn’t even think about this in a game other than how to use the ‘set’ in a fight. Also it makes me laugh how they struggle to swing the heavy thing but once it’s on their shoulder they all seem to weigh the same.

[@lolicongang.4974]

Like alot of things. I have a box in front of me I pick it up . It's heavy I toughen up place it on my shoulder and walla I can carry it must easier.

[@randaru1527]

20:00 Estoc, along with some other twohanded thrusting swords, has the thrusting sword moveset, the exact same as your baseline rapier. Yes, it does mean more range with practically no tradeoff.

[@dreadknight0]

That's why Estoc was broken in early DS3

[@nicksande6880]

estoc = bestoc

[@platonios4666]

For the greatswords,I just think things like Zweihänder would be too OP if they had realistic animations...But when I look at magic in elden Ring...Ok,ez realistic animations for zweihänders next patch.

[@Bertoleyus]

@Siberian it is a nice change from previous games, though, where they were undertuned. They seem widely varied, accessible, useful, AND powerful. Before, in previous games, it was difficult to use miracles and spells because of how easy they were to dodge.

[@grandarkfang_1482]

@Siberian nah, just magic, Incantations take too long to cast.

[@jingleding9002]

@@grandarkfang_1482 respecced to try incantations and them respecced back to sorcery because of how fookin slow the casting is, I couldn’t pull off most of the dragon lightning like the dragon spear or lightning glaive within 10 meters of the shield knights without getting rushed and stun poked

[@platonios4666]

@Siberian I play as confessor and I dont really think,incantations are so good.I wanted to go cleric way but turned out,incantations arent very good so Im main melee now,despite my vitality and stuff sucks for a melee build.

[@Kitsunary]

Incantations are mostly for supporting yourself or messing with people. The most combat focused ones are the dragon ones.

[@RuneKatashima]

My only defense of their animations is that sometimes they swing low and in to the ground because Souls games (I'm just collectively calling all of them that, you know what I mean) actually have a non-insignificant amount of enemies low to the ground. Rats, slimes, dogs and even prone enemies and when the player swings and any standard weapons wielded by an NPC, it all hits based on collision. And this is just speculation but they probably overswing because testing said that felt good. I wouldn't doubt that because the games have been praised for how you have to commit to your swings and how heavy things feel.

[@pbsixgun6]

They could have just done a 'high/med/low' attack animations set instead of making unrealistically damaging (to the weapon) ground strikes.

[@noahk2503]

non insignificant

[@chloekaftan]

im gonna be honest, thrusting/lunging with daggers looks brain-dead stupid because it has no reach, you say its a deadly way of attacking but i see it as a pathetic way of attacking if we put it into context within a medieval setting where everyone has a sword, spear, or any other far reaching weapon. lunging or thrusting with a dagger is only deadly today because nobody carries a sword with them anymore. for the sake of argument you can lunge in game if you sprint before pressing R2 (not gonna bother saying the pc controls because nobody in their right mind would play this game without a console controller) the broadsword, longsword, and shortsword is animated in a way to depict that the user is not as skilled in it as you are assuming they are. historical accuracy may be important to you, but PVP balance is faaaaar more important for the developers because its easy to fix damage values, but much harder and costlier to replace weapon animations on a whim. "european swordsmanship has such a specific and sophisticated technique".. sure, if you were the son of a high ranking noble with formal training maybe, but most footsoldiers were mostly trained just to know which end of the sword to grab onto, and that's about it. they were cannon fodder and conscripts, nothing more. i think koei tecmo helped with fromsoftware's development of elden ring, which explains why japanese weapons exist in the game and why theyre animated well. i also think the greatswords/colossal swords are animated very well, because that basic btch greatsword/colossal sword is nothing compared to the "Guts" Greatsword which uses the same animations, DO NOT use the piece of trash newbie greatsword/colossal sword as a reference to base the animation on, 99% of all greatswords/colossal swords in the game are way bigger and heavier than this rinky dink toy sword. i feel like the clubs are meant to have an extremely simple fighting style (or rather no fighting style full stop) is because its an ooga booga weapon, literally nothing more than a "return to monke" meme weapon to joke about and never take seriously, or scream at the top of your lungs when some smurf somehow kills you with one. the mace is better and similar to the sword style but i do wish it had attacks that focus on crushing the torso or skull since these weapons were historically designed to make plate-mail the knights tomb by collapsing it into their body. if the blunt force trauma doesnt kill them, the unending torment of being wrapped in a fatally crushed tin-can will. i like the flail, mainly because i haven't seen a single game with a flail that is actually animated. as for its practical applications at smashing margit the fell omen's face in, or denting the scales of a dragon, yeah... nope.. you'll just be asking them to shove this weapon inside you while you beg for mercy. i think the reason the spiked ball of the flail sometimes stops abruptly is to prevent the time honored haunt of having a simulated physics model go absolutely berserk when its physics dont have any sort of limiters. (like most early 2000's/2010's games that had boob physics, or cloth physics, or hair physics) i think the halberd and spear is absolutely perfect where it is right now, asking the devs to add unnecessary tweaks to its animation is pointless, whats the point in smacking the butt stock/pommel of a halberd at a dragon? absolutely none. case of point. the tarnished that we play as likely doesn't even have formal training so most of their technique is depicted to be self taught, just be satisfied with that will you. every single buckler in the game will not block 100% of the damage, why? because its designed specifically to be gimped, some kite shields can block 100% of the damage but you lose stamina equal to the damage you should have recieved, it you lose all your stamina your guard breaks, and if the damage exceeds your stamina pool by orders of magnitude then the damage will bypass your shield completely and kill you. bucklers and kite shields are designed to be quick and agile, the bucklers excel at parrying, while the kite shields excel at blocking light attacks and arrows, both shields are absolutely trash against magic unless you cast "scholars shield", and both shields are quite light which is great for people not focusing on strength/endurance builds, but the consequence is that they have very little poise, which means that even if an attack doesnt go through it will absolutely bruise you arm and hand, and its a trivial matter to guard break you. this is why larger shields exist in the game, they are much much heavier but offer much more poise and can block attacks from even the largest bosses. and of course you move the buckler/shield away before striking because how else are you supposed to see? the buckler/shield covers more than 40% of your vision and it would be stupid to attack blindly. they also do this to prevent players from hiding behind their shield 100% of the time, imagine striking while your shield is up in a pvp focused videogame, reddit flame-wars will ensue, it does make sense for rapiers/spears though, but it has a glaring weakness which balances everything out. (just roll behind them and back-stab) tower shields and great shields dont need to be moved because all of them are positioned in a way that still lets the players character see in front of them. the uchigatana (and other blood loss meta weapons) are balanced well enough if you actually remember to make some consumables that mitigate blood loss. its not broken as long as you're not a bad player, which sadly most people are.. i believe there are also spells and incantations that can mitigate this debuff as well. i disagree with the light bow vs heavy bow argument because while light bows like the recurve bow can absolutely get similar poundage as a longbow or a warbow, you have to take into account that a longbow or warbow can draw a "war arrow" which is significantly heavier than a typical arrow, some much later bows even go as far as to draw arrows that are similar to lances (quick nod to the "dragonslayer greatbow" from dark souls 3 which literally launches a lightning imbued lance to shred the thick virtually indestructible scales of elder dragons) play Elden Ring to completion before you form an opinion on every weapon, for all our sanity's as souls veterans.

[@GangsterFrankensteinComputer]

@@pbsixgun6 I'm pretty certain you can attack h/m/l. If you look up you'll attack upwards. Like you need to look down to hit the glowing skulls on the floor.

[@ANDELE3025]

Actually, attack swings are based on upper body animation, so just moving the camera/not being in lockon lets you modify how high/were the centerpoint of swings is.

[@Guest291291]

Some weapons have diffrent moveset in their category. I'd love to hear your thoughts on banished knight greatsword for example, as your character does not treat it as a metal bonking stick.

[@Cpt.Cappuccino]

THIS!!! THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING OF!!!

[@DASCSWEM]

Yuup

[@odotawaissaku3755]

Godslayer Greatblade as well

[@mrhomosensual8717]

I was looking just incase someone already said this, I wanted to ask him the same thing!

[@TheJere213]

14:08 It would actually be interesting for RPG to include the skill and strength into the animations. For example if you have poor skill with swords the character will just swing it wildly and as your skill increases the actual animated swings become better and more controlled as well. Strength could make the swings slower and more clumsy overall if your character is too weak to properly wield the weapon and if the weapon is way too heavy the character could barely swing it (imagine a kid trying to swing a massive hammer). It would probably take quite a bit of work but the end result would be amazing if properly done.

[@lightningpenguin8937]

At first that's what I thought the you can't properly use the weapon meant. It would have been pretty cool if they did that.

[@stuglife5514]

Kinda like how guns work in new Vegas, cuz in NV your reload speed and your shakeyness is affected by your skills and strength, as well as recoil I think.

[@cooldude879012]

Gothic 1 & 2, actually do have something quite similar to what you describe. In both games when you first start out with no skill with weapons, your character swings them somewhat wildly and can only chain a few hits together. As your character's skill grows with weapons the attack animations, even the standard "wielding" animation, change to much more controlled and precise strikes that can be chained together a good number of times. Though, they are more "stylized" animations rather than "realistic" but, it still gets the point across that your character has gotten better at wielding weapons.

[@xeibei4804]

Thar literally used to be in dark souls 1. When you were not leveled enough for a weapon the character while trying to swing it would simply fail, i dont know why the removed it its so stupid

[@stuglife5514]

Fallout new Vegas did this with guns. It was based on your strength and skill with that catagory of gun. Heavy guns sway a lot, and the better the strength the less it sways and the high the skill the more accurate you are. Also you reload faster with a higher gun skill. Would be nice to see a system like this applied to melee

[@kai_27-82]

The banished knight sword is in the greatsword category but actually has its own unique two-handed animation set, which is FAR more controlled than the one shown in the video... so much so I can hardly believe they chose to use the one shown in the video on the majority of them! Would recommend checking it out just to see that they do actually (kind of) have an idea on europeon sword technique... they just chose to not give all of them the same treatment

[@drago2210]

That is an animation set present on some greatswords since Dark Souls 2, also in DS3 too. Really sad Shad missed it for this video.

[@senseifarm]

I can confirm that there are more greatswords that use this type of animation in elden ring. If I remember correctly those greatswords seem to be scaling better with dexterity than strength, emphasising their more skilled usage, instead of raw might.

[@thatoneLerrydude]

@@senseifarm I didn't find others than the Knight's Greatsword, the Banished version is the same weapon basically. What are the others you speak of?

[@Youssef_wa]

Mind telling me where I can find it?

[@jacobsmash1]

@@Youssef_wa kill sword-wielding banished knights in stormveil castle, rng drop (i think)

[@davidgerrard6613]

I was pleasantly surprised to see a flail. Most games tend to avoid them because I guess the chain animations/physics just aren't worth implementing when a good mace is an option.

[@Fragtastik]

The flail is great from a gameplay perspective as well because it gives Dex builds a way to deal Strike damage.

[@thecompanioncube4211]

Not only that, there is a freaking whip in the game as well. Amazing animation and range on that weapon. I thing Shad hasn't got it though

[@GremlinSciences]

@@thecompanioncube4211 He appears to be missing quite a few weapons without realizing it, or at least without mentioning them. I was surprised he didn't use the Grafted Blade Greatsword as the example of the ridiculously huge colossal swords. And I might be wrong on this since I mostly use DEX weapons, but it looked like he simply didn't have the STR required to use the colossal swords correctly, you get similar animations when using the Grafted Blade Greatsword with less than 20 STR but over 16 DEX.

[@SpaceEmperorGenos]

It's an unnecessary addition that isn't worth the effort you have to put in and all the variables you have to take into account. How do I make the animations flow naturally when the player swings? How do I decide which frame the physics take control of the ball and chain and which frame the actual hand animation starts so everything looks plausible? How do I tweak the physics properly so that the ball and chain don't just break and look silly at random moments because I simply fell from a high enough distance? How do I incorporate these things into the player death animation, let alone animations like running, blocking or falling? The only games I've seen use flails as an actual weapon choice are Chivalry: Medieval Warfare, and For Honor. Summed up, it rounds out to this; It's a very asinine and tedious thing to do, and it's easy to screw up. And when you screw up a weapon that has physics, people tend to point it out and focus on it rather than the other aspects of the game that were actually fun and not as tedious to make, such as story, atmosphere, characters or world design.

[@BlueBirdsProductions]

@@thecompanioncube4211 becuase whips fucking suck and always have in souls games LOL ewho the fuck uses a whip

[@joshuasimons9887]

(game developer here) from a game design standpoint a lot of these inaccuracies are not just for telegraphing but for making the attacks more forgivingly connect to enemies at all, whilst a real swordsman is able to produce quite swift efficient motions and hit targets on the scale of centimetres there's no way for a player to input that much information easily, the player is more doing hits with precision on the scale of metres, by having wider attacks (and more swings instead of stabs) it allows players to be less accurate and still get hits at a variety of angles in one button press. elden ring would be a lot less fun if we were missing every swing we took lol! :D

[@ASpaceOstrich]

Regarding the shields not blocking 100% physical damage. You picked the only kite shield in the entire game that doesn't block 100% physical damage. Because its made of wood. There are smaller shields than that which still block 100% of physical damage. In Elden Ring the rule of thumb seems to be if its larger than a round shield and its made of metal, its blocks 100% physical damage.

[@RainMakeR_Workshop]

Yeah, I've always thought Greatswords in a video game would be best made into a crowd control AOE weapon. You could even incorporate its bodyguard history and make it also a target protection weapon. Which could in turn make the dreaded "escort quest" actually fun for once lol.

[@BluePhoenix_]

Ooooh i hate escort missions, they are almost always bad.

[@HonorableAssassins]

@@BluePhoenix_ but RE4

[@Starsky3022]

Just wanted to mention that "thrusts" in the game have a different animation and mechanic to use them and they deal a lot of damage. So my guess would be that that's the reason why the usual animation does not include a thrust

[@Ceece20]

It also really effects how you parry. You won’t be partying much thrusts compared to a swinging animation.

[@DragonChief157]

also thrusts weapon/movesets have a stronger counter-attack mechanic, not "parry" or "guard-counters" but when your attack is hitting opponent when they are mid attack animation, thrust weapons have a more % damage modifiers for it as well.

[@Aodhan_Raith]

@@DragonChief157 Even more so than normal counter hit mechanics? Damn, that's a hell of a lot of damage.

[@Terratops474]

That, and Thrusting is a different damage type. I think they wanted to make all of your normal swings do Slashing damage so there's some consistency there.

[@spookbreaker1644]

Something you may appreciate: The "Carian Knight's Sword" has a hanging guard which has blocking frames on it's heavy attack.

[@ocularcavity8412]

Even though there is tons of overswing in the the animations and that could be toned down , i do believe for game play reasons you should leave some overswing options in some of the attack patterns because they help when combating multiple enemies at once at, I tend to rely on weapons with overswing it REALLY helps when getting swarm

[@Filteredcube]

90% of the criticisms can be summed up by "it's there for gameplay reasons".

[@ocularcavity8412]

@@Filteredcube That is because it is GAME.... AND in a GAME ....FUN should take priority over REASLISM because games are supposed to be fun. Imagine a version of GTA where you have to MANUALLY file and pay your taxes every in game year DOES THAT SOUND LIKE FUN? Imagine a version of Sonic the Hedgehog where he acts like an ACTUAL hedgehog..... they are cute but NOT fast nor can they BREAK THROUGH WALLS and KILL ROBOTS , If you want realism first you buy a Simulator NOT A GAME, that is why we iRacing and Microsoft Flight Simulator and Euro/American Truck simulator EXIST!!! In the Medieval setting with combat you have Kingdom Come Deliverance, and Mordhau (not accurate as iRacing but MUCH CHEAPER) and MORE REALISTIC!!! if you want realism then aim for title like those those but you want to COMPLAIN about realism in a game where SHEEP get away from you by ROLLING AWAY are you and you ride a horse that can DOBLE JUMP are you ACTUALLY listening you yourselves?

[@JB_0x00]

The thing about crossbows being easier to use than bows is kind of represented in game. Crossbows have no stat scaling, but bows do. So as your strength and dexterity increase, your bow damage will continue to improve, but the crossbow will remain the same. So for highly skilled characters, bows become the better choice, but crossbows are often better for weaker (less "trained") characters.

[@Bertoleyus]

I was going to mention this. I wonder how balanced it would be to have dex and strength change the reload speed and aiming precision?

[@Battleguild]

I personally think it should have scaled like this: Short/Long Bows: Equal Str/Dex Scaling and score Greatbows: Str Scaling (set minimum Dex score) Crossbows: Dex Scaling (set minimum Str score) I think of Dexterity in how well you can shoot a vulnerable spot and to fine tune your aiming. Where Strength determines how hard you hit.

[@leeash_]

this, and also if you have a character whose stats do not scale with bows, you can still give them a ranged option in their loadout without sacrificing levels ("training") for a secondary function

[@majormajorasic]

@@leeash_ That would be the territory of throwing weapons then, you got throwing daggers, throwing bombs, throwing trash as well for some reason.

[@leeash_]

@@majormajorasic that too, but crossbows work just fine for it

[@Gearshifta]

Poor Zweihander it carried me from the Graveyard to Gwyn on my first playthrough.

[@lucyrgb7056]

Honestly, much of the "not so good" animations come from previous games, where nostalgia beats realism. Like the Zweihander, it's an iconic weapon from the Souls franchise that even if its moveset is not realistic, we are already used to it and some of us prefer it that way. Amazing video btw!

[@midshipman8654]

… I disagree with this. i think its more due to game design and animation speed being important to the core gameplay. i mean tradition might be part, but its more for the design.

[@0Avi0]

@@midshipman8654 that's not really true, as plenty of weapons have great animations and are a lot stronger as a result. The game is not balanced perfectly.

[@xeibei4804]

Its not nostalgia its saving resources, resuing animations is simply money saved. Its laziness that the only reason.

[@Auvisome]

Zwei's animations arent even the same. It's way better in DS1

[@SMT-ks8yp]

But all the same issues with katana supremacy and stuff spply to older games. Nostalgia is not a reason to repeat mistakes.

[@perryborn2777]

22:40 there are actually a few greatswords that use a different two handed animation than the other weapons in the category, that you might enjoy quite a bit more. I believe the Exile Knight's Greatsword has much better two-handed animations than its counterparts, but I also am not well versed in historical fighting styles All I know is that you're not constantly slamming it into the ground, so it looks much better to me

[@arishiasol]

That and the Knights Greatsword do nicer animations that alternate between Pflug, Ochs and Vom tag positions from HEMA (although not perfectly, they sometimes still hit the ground between transitions, a big no-no in real life, but they are a little more accurate). And the reason it's the only sword I bothered to upgrade that is not a special/boss weapon.

[@Schizobaj]

Hello Shad, there are 2 greatswords that have a more realistic move set, they end every attack into a stance, those two are the "Knight's Greatsword" and "Banished Knight's Greatsword", you should check the animations of one of those two.(you can find where to get them on the fextralife wiki page)

[@vrcxdc3623]

Yeas, I wanted to mention them too. Banished has really great realistic animations, but does not have a thrust, so I ended uo using Claymore, but I really wanted that one

[@nitroturbo7869]

Is it the Hollowslayer/DS2 greatsword moveset?

[@kreatona4219]

@@nitroturbo7869 yes. I've been powerstancing two Banished Knight's Greatswords and it's been fun as hell

[@nitroturbo7869]

@@kreatona4219 Does it have a different moveset to the standard powerstance greatswords, like the Lordsworn sword?

[@kreatona4219]

@@nitroturbo7869 I'm pretty sure it doesn't, but the scaling and damage output works wonders for my build, as I'm going for faith/strength and have the swords infused with one being fire and the other being holy

[@lordhelmchen3154]

I think the main reason for overswinging the "straight swords" and "greatswords" is the hitbox of the weapon. Without overswinging the zone you hit enemies with would be like a very small cone in front of the character (maybe less then a 45° cone) and gameplay-wise that would be really tedious, especially when you fight a group of enemies, whereas with overswinging the hitbox cone is like 90° to even 180° wide.

[@SleeplessBanjos]

I would prefer a smaller hitbox if the weapon felt lighter and could swing faster (and cost an appropriate amount of stamina). Even if you needed more focus, it would be shorts frames for dodging and parrying, which is what a shorter sword should excel at (As well as comfortably using a shield).

[@CarlosAlola]

@@SleeplessBanjos yea sounds great but enemies can get you pretty fast

[@ducktape-3470]

@@SleeplessBanjos that's usually what the Rapier does in Game. Try it out or the Estoc as well, smaller cone but faster attack

[@Jaxuhe]

Yeah, I'm certain it's a videogame mechanics thing. Not only important for fast-moving enemies or groups, but the combat in general - the player *can't* have that amout of fine control of a character unless the game is built specifically for duels, with completely different mechanics in and out of combat. The overswing makes it easier to hit enemies mid-dodge or without targetting, so these weapons *feel* easier to use.

[@takezokimura2571]

And let me tell you, the hitboxes in this game are VERY accurate. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXu3Zqala7iWeZY kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6mqdZ2uf7SYa9U kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZKvgYicgcSXsMk kzbin.infopLZx3yy3mkk

[@lc1279]

Loved the video! Knowing almost nothing about weapons in general, but curious what your thoughts would be on the Cross-Naginata. It is such a cool looking weapon, and it has an interesting moveset. Again, I don't know how practical it would be, but that is why I am requesting your thoughts!

[@dragoneeley]

16:00 I do want to point out that there is a particular Greatsword that I do think does really well with its animation, being the Banished Knight's Greatsword. Its a lot more composed and they seem to have a lot more control.

[@Vastin]

Based on most of the animations, I think we can safely say that in order to fight the damned souls and giant beasts of this realm, they've switched from making weapons out of tempered steel, and chosen to go with some alloy based around Depleted Uranium instead. :D

[@masonjones7777]

it's apparently made from smithing stone: stones with magical properties and ties to holy magic. so the "because magic" clause takes effect as usual.

[@ItsDaJax]

@@masonjones7777 Everything needs plot bunnies.

[@masonjones7777]

@@ItsDaJax fine by me, I just think it looks satisfying to slap abominations with the claymore even if it isn't an accurate swinging motion.

[@SpaceEmperorGenos]

@@masonjones7777 Always that one guy who has to call bullshit on everything because "MUH HISTORICAL ACCURACY". Personally I don't care in the slightest a lot of games just use magic as an excuse so that ridiculous things get a pass. I'll tell you this much, it sure as shit beats playing Hellish Quart. That game looks astoundingly boring for anybody BUT the avid fencer. If you'd like to be unnecessarily stoic and nearly condescending towards more mechanics that don't need to actually be looked at in such a serious manner, you're now more than welcome to, Mason.

[@BlueBirdsProductions]

nah they just have high STR

[@derstehwahn6094]

I find it funny that you proposed to have crossbows be easier to aim with. In Elden Ring (and in all Souls games for that matter) most crossbows do not have stat scaling, meaning its damage output does not improve with your character, like the bows and other weapons do. So yes, they actually DID implement the crossbow like you proposed: Easier to use (meaning fixed damage) at the cost of having to reload it - with a short reload time for the sake of gameplay.

[@lucasrxrxx1859]

in terms of gameplay, crossbows can be fired with only one hand, thats a insanely good thing in pvp

[@aeriagloris4211]

Of course they do, they improve by upgrading them

[@MaugriMGER]

@@aeriagloris4211 yeah but not by skilling the Character

[@Animalace3]

@@aeriagloris4211 They get base damage upgrade, but not scaling damage upgrade. When you look at a weapon's damage there is two damage numbers with a + between them. The number on the left is the base damage, the number on the right is the added damage granted by the scaling the weapon has. So weapons with S in scaling for Dex will give insane extra damage for those with high dexterity.

[@liamonoanonymous6642]

in addition to this, in dark souls 1 the crossbows cannot be aimed over-the-shoulder but bows can. Makes zero sense

[@maverik744]

I'm missing two things here, I would have loved to hear your thoughts on mounted combat and also on dual wielding (at least for the "small" weapons)

[@pter8875]

One thing about the greatsword two-handed swings: even though they aren't realistic, they're just so satisfying and visceral. If you don't overthink it, that kind of oomph can really help immersion. When you attack towards the camera, I can't help but flinch during some of the swings because they just feel that dangerous.

[@Rigel_6]

I mean, given the days of R1 spam in Ds3, straight swords implying the user being unskilled and a dork is quite fitting

[@Monomiknose]

27:45 Sorry if there's a bunch of people already saying this but I just wanted to mention that categorization is probably for gameplay reasons. You're able to powerstance almost every type of weapon as long as they fit in the same "category". So for example, you can powerstance that club and that mace since they're both hammers, which I know because I did that very combination for a few minutes while testing out different builds. It helps keep it clear which weapons you can combine so you don't have to keep a mental checklist of "clubs go with maces, arming swords go with short swords but not thrusting swords, this lucerne doesn't work with other hammers despite being a hammer because it uses a move set similar to the halberd..." and so on and so forth.

[@ionlycomment5187]

It disappointed me greatly to discover you couldn't power stance swords with daggers. Sword-and-dagger is perhaps the most common way to dual-wield in real life.

[@raymondwiggins354]

In genshin impact they count a club (the debate club) as a claymore (though they pretty much just use claymore for big swinging weapons) Also, I wonder if shad will do a video about genshin impact weapons and attack animations. Interestingly, sayu says she can only swing her club (or other "claymore" classed weapon) thanks to her Vision (magic thing), which is shown as she is practically throwing herself with her swings with a sword/club that would probably normally be too big for her.

[@XdivineExp]

Honorable mention to the wakizashi which despite being classified as a dagger can still be power stanced with katanas.

[@philipfahy9658]

@@ionlycomment5187 You can however get a parrying dagger, which is largely what the dagger was used for historically. That being said, buckler parry all the way.

[@ionlycomment5187]

@@philipfahy9658 I know of the parrying dagger in the game, but can you power stance with it and a sword?

[@thekingofcardboard]

I've always felt that the wild overswinging in these games makes some sense, considering how many enemies are much bigger than the player character. I figure you need to hit the enemy much harder to hurt them. Besides, it's not like returning to a guarding position with a longsword is going to do much against things like Godrick the Grafted.

[@dehydratedculture9126]

I feel like the overly heavy swings of the swords is because you’re usually trying to kill a giant creature. Doing a little regular attack as you would against a human with a sword just wouldn’t make sense.

[@flintlickteig4603]

I would counter that most enemies arent huge, only some of them. Poise polays a great role in countering against the heavy strike argument, because youd still eventually stun them anyway with several hits.

[@Sibula]

Why not have the regular attacks be normal and good against regular enemies, while having the heavy attacks be like this and good against giant enemies like bosses?

[@LazyLoonz]

@@Sibula sounds like a potentially great game mechanic

[@LazyLoonz]

@@Sibula like smaller enemies will dodge every heavy attack but bigger enemies will be able to get hit by it and the other way around, and maybe some form a upgrade tree that increases the speed in which you can swing your weapon or choose the option to increase your dodging ability's "power"

[@gavinfairbanks]

@@Sibula sounds like the stances from the first two witchers

[@xXSamir44Xx]

One thing to acknowledge with Elden Ring in particular is that the descriptions of some of the heavier weapons mention how the user would need superhuman strength or "the strength of giants" to wield them. Which confirms that leveling your strength stat enough gives you superhuman, by real life standards, levels if strength. Doesn't excuse the overswinging, but it's a nice detail. Edit: I'd love to see a review of the more fantastical weapons, once you finish the game.

[@chimericpaladin35813]

i actually made a reply before about how its possible theyre using a different metal than iron and steel to make the weapons, if you look at the coloring of a bunch of the weapons and the color of the materials you use to upgrade them it makes sense to think that that isnt iron in them blades

[@bobussaurus7561]

Shad, I suggest checking out the more dex oriented greatswords, such as the “Knights greatsword”. They use the hollow slayer greatsword animations from DS2 and DS3 and it’s one of my favorite animations for the greatsword category.

[@cissuperdroid]

Yeah those attack animations are quite good, since the player actually maneuvers the blade back around to a "ready stance" for a follow-up if needed; underrated animations!

[@jsprmp]

Banished Knight's Greatsword also does this.

[@Sines314]

@@cissuperdroid Shortly into the video, I saw Shad using a sword, returning to that 'ready' stance, and I immediately thought he looked like Lucatiel.

[@amadhollow635]

Similarly there are some straight swords like the carian knight sword that on the r2 have a window where they have a similar poised stance, and it actually acts as a very bad shield

[@bobussaurus7561]

@@amadhollow635 wow, so does it actually have block frames during that like that one sword+shield weapon from DS3’s dlc?

[@PaladinJackal]

Being able to use such huge weapons actually makes sense in this world. As leveling up is a canon power the tarnished has. Your maiden gives you the power to turn runes into strength as she says. So you can literally chose to turn your runes into physical power.

[@thekindledsoul4330]

I appreciate the wardrobe changes when using the styles of different weapons. Can always count on Shad to further our immersion.

[@christophermcdonald1069]

When looking at movesets for each weapon, I recommend also looking at the attacks out of a crouch and immediately out of a roll. Jump attacks as well. In some cases they add, imo, an essential attack to their moveset. Thrusting for swords, for example. It's probably worth trying the entire moveset of every weapon. Plenty of weapons have unique moves to those in the same category.

[@majormajorasic]

And the weapon art attacks! The club for example has most of it's moveset change when the weapon art is activated.

[@marcosdheleno]

not only that but in certain cases, like the broadsword, its heavy attack moveset is completely diferent from the longsword.

[@NielsGx]

sprint attacks especially..

[@mikelibby990]

i am quite suprised he didnt mention anything about the unsheathe move with the katana

[@Suesserto]

I always like the roll light attack of Claymore.

[@StainlessPot]

Thrusting weapons have always been able to attack with the shield up, sine Demon's Souls. It's neat, yeah, and now there are guard counters for the other weapons, but those don't exactly look like the shield stays up.

[@tostitodon2067]

I've been watching your videos for a few years and I love all the videos I've seen especially ones that depict weapon, how there used and there practicality. So yeah a video on some of the wacky weapons would be really cool. Thanks for that awesome content😁

[@WadWizard]

Id like to mention there are a few other attacks, attacking from a backstep does a forward moving attack, attacking from crouched has a different attack as well as a strong attack while crouched, then with thrusting and curved swords if you press the roll/backstep button you do a sortof feint type thing, attacking from a run as well, and some weapon skills are specific to weapon types like square up is exclusively a straightsword ability and spinning chain is only on the flail so those might be interesting to hear about as for how longswords are used

[@drag0nmancer]

Shad, the Halberd category has different attack animations depending on the type of halberd you are using.The Golden Halberd from the Tree Sentinel boss uses the Axe head for more attacks and has different 1-handed animations than the more historically focused Halberd you used in the halberd section (which tended to use more thrusting attacks). the Golden Halberd 1-handed attacks usually focus on just lifting the axe head up and then dropping it down on the enemy, while the 2-handed attacks uses more angled swings/slices. And while mounted there are attack animations that use the spear-tip in the thrust animation almost like a lance.

[@zeening]

yeah he def seems to have missed ALOT of stuff or just made this video without having seen experienced the vast majority of weapons lol, something tells me he's still got mostly all the basic weapons

[@marsmeadiuvat2439]

There are greatswords that uses ds2 animation which is more realistic, sadly those are either rare drops or midgame loot.

[@sjcodan]

I think the overswinging is actually meant to be a gameplay mechanic, being able to hit multiple enemies. You're gonna have to swing pretty hard if you want to do effective damage to three guys with one swing.

[@ReCursedy]

Also for parry machanics

[@pogofgreed3707]

But that is what makes late game such a chore…! My only complaints with this game is the late game bosses. They are either boring, have stupid AoEs, stupid status effects, stupid move set, but most important. They seem so anti-heavy weapons. I could only use the roll into a poke mechanic with the Greatsword as any other attack resulted in me getting hit.

[@thatoneguy6126]

@@pogofgreed3707 true lol. I have a good track record with jump attacks though.

[@googleandsusansucks]

@@pogofgreed3707 Fast weapons has always been the best against bosses. This is true for all souls games. The upper limit for usable speeds seems in my experience to be the curved greatswords and the regular greatswords (played all souls games except Elden Ring). Slower weapons are more for PvP.

[@rasalgooch8204]

cope

[@darth_dan8886]

26:26 I like how while Shad goes on about how unbelievably heavy that axe should be, she just hovers it over the shoulder with one hand, not ever resting it on the shoulder. Like, "Yeah. What you gonna do about it?"

[@jasonburke3828]

You should definitely do some of the wacky weapons. Your opinion on what they are depicted from would be very interesting.

[@darenh355]

It would be really nice if by lvling up a certain stat, your attack speed would increase so that the weapons can resemble more of how they feel irl.

[@dilen754]

There were that game named Gothic 2, where your character takes different and progressively more elegant stances as you level up the weapon skill.

[@drakebloodknight7981]

Adaptability PTSD intensifies

[@Falx415]

@@drakebloodknight7981 Was that the name of the God awful DS2 mechanic where the speed you drank estus could get slower or faster?

[@drakebloodknight7981]

@@Falx415 you are correct. I am now rocking back and forth in the fetal position. ‘where are the s…where’d they go…why does my roll betray me…’

[@Youssef_wa]

That would actually work horribly in terms of gameplay imagine someone running a the Zweihänder as fast as the dagger

[@Nightweaver1]

I imagine for visual impact and game balancing purposes they have to make truly powerful swords overswing by a lot so that you can both see how powerful their strikes would be (even if extremely inaccurate historically) and so that the recovery time on them is slow enough to balance out how potent a hit from them would be. In real life if you were a knight with a zweihander, you would cut them apart in seconds no problem. Arms, legs, gone. But in a game you need to give the other guy a chance to hit you or it would just be THE weapon everyone goes to.

[@laurie1183]

It's more the way their combat works. The game uses Dark Souls animations where you're basically a novice and have no idea how to use the weapons. You're also sort of a corpse as well.

[@ninjaeddy1717]

Makes me wonder if you can balance things like great words while still depicting their techniques accurately. Guess I’ll watch the rest of the video!

[@mrbigglezworth42]

@@laurie1183 Sort of? You're about to be a corpse again, you just don't know it yet. Still, almost all the weapon animations take a little bit longer then you'd expect and outside of getting up there's no animation canceling. The whole game after playing it even gives the "fast" weapons a sluggish recovery time to emphasize that you really have to commit to actions...except dodging. You can do that practically anytime so long as your stamina holds.

[@loveluclins]

Even then you could do this by just slowing down the motion, good visual effects and sound design, rather than make your character look extremely clumsy and weak at the same time.

[@KeizerSosebee]

Also some of these people are easily like 20 ft tall so maybe its viable to overswing with all your strength as normal weapons are barely going to cut these bosses

[@ShiniSaba]

In regards to the daggers if you two hand them, you have access to a stabbing heavy/roll move and one handing/dual daggering does a stab when you do a roll attack too

[@8BitAnimate]

I would LOVE to see more videos focusing on Elden Ring! There's so much material I'd like to hear your thoughts on! Also I can't believe FromSoft released game of the year 3 months into the year LOL

[@GacPrime]

On the "weapon categories" topic, the big thing with weapon categories is that they determine what Ashes of War you can apply to a weapon. Thus, you can't try to stab yourself with a club, etc.

[@chimericpaladin35813]

funny i also commented on that, but most of the comment was about the metals used in the lands between at the start and after just devolved into ranting about crossbows not getting any ashes of war, or most anything, but fromsoft has always s@#$ on crossbows so thats normal, although im still salty about it.

[@chimericpaladin35813]

@@Nekogami04 i would imagine, same probably with sleep, poison, and scarlet rot, and a couple others, but that doesnt keep me from being salty about no ashes of war. plus from what ive seen of shad and other historical arms tubers, shouldnt bows be a quality(str/dex) weapon and crossbows be a dex weapon even if with low scaling, maybe with javelins/atlatl or something similarly throwable as the ranged str weapon, just a thought that popped in.

[@singularleaf3895]

@@chimericpaladin35813 ya, that's one of the things I really dislike. The crossbows look sooo good. But the bow is better in EVERY way. I wouldn't mind crossbows not having ashes if they had insanely more damage output, as a trade off.

[@chimericpaladin35813]

@@singularleaf3895 it seems theyre really showing their favoritism in elden ring, first they removed infusions for crossbows and bows in ds3, then they return bow infusions in elden ring through ashes of war, but completely ignore doing the same with crossbows, also factoring in the idea of the goats foot crossbow lever just not modeled and shown to the player which would explain that weird reload animation that shad commented on (an inbuilt reloading lever typically seen in cavalry crossbows or anything made on the slingshot channel would also explain it but the goats foot was the first i could think of), and strength not being a factor for bow damage in any fromsoft game, crossbows should be absolutely dominating in firepower, range and penetration, only being bested by great bows, which may i remind you are bows usually made for giants to use (could only imagine what sort of crossbows you could make with that in mind, frickin make the hand ballista look like a peashooter). dont even get me started about not getting to arrive with a crossbow as a starting weapon.

[@chimericpaladin35813]

@@singularleaf3895 i just ran into somthing interesting, they completely neutered the bows damage scaling in elden ring, maybe this was an oversight and is gonna be patched eventually but not a single bow has higher than d in scaling, one of the greatbows gets CAN get a c in str scaling but thats it, and all of the ashes of war that you can put on a bow dont give it higher scaling than that, they probably still outdamage crossbows but this means theres a chance for em atleast, and who knows, maybe when they update to fix the bows damage theyll "accidentaly" give stuff to the crossbow (ive always theorized that someone on the inside of fromsoft is on our side of the crossbow debate and thats why they havent been s@#$ on more than they have or just removed entirely as a findable weapon)

[@GarrettTBuse]

The over swinging is a consideration for crowd control and more easily hitting high and low enemies.

[@TealWolf26]

That's why I like the spins. An allowance that Shad made once for that combat form with greatswords. Spin = follow through and crowd offending. We must offend as many enemies as possible.

[@Ertzgiel]

Great video Shad, amazing content!

[@RansHappyGamingFamily]

This was really cool, I'd love it if you could make a follow up later, there are a lot of weapons with unique attack moves, there are also separate animations for jump attacks and sprint attacks and I'd love to hear your opinion on that.

[@Spidert4nk]

It's worth mentioning in the case of Estoc type weapons that having a sweeping slash is incredibly useful in-game when dealing with crowd control or incredibly erratic enemies that dodge side to side.

[@iota-09]

they also point out in descriptions that something like n estoc may be able to have slash attacks, but a rapier or other thinner and even more blunt rapier-class weapons? forget it.(can't remember if frost needly, rogier's rapier or the basic rapier mentions not having an edge worthy enough to use slashes)

[@darthplagueis13]

Kind of funny how FromSoft actually take two-hands-thing into account in a very specific way: Two-handing a weapon actually doubles your effective strength stat, thus increasing the damage dealt through scaling and also allowing you to wield weapons that you don't meet the strength requirements for. A pity that they don't consistently have two-handed movesets that really reflect the fact that you'd have more control with two hands.

[@Leonhart_93]

It's 50% more, not double.

[@MrGhosta5]

It's actually a 1.5x modifier.

[@climax050]

Its a shame that a lot of the two handing animations are worse than the one handed counterparts, slower and with more slams right in front of you instead of the wide sweeping swings you get in one hand.

[@b.calvinsaul1909]

Thanks, Shad! I really enjoyed this analysis/comparison. The weapons models are pretty amazing, and that they seem to have made an effort at accuracy and differentiation are impressive.

[@TrueUnderDawgGaming]

I love how Shad also plays with female characters Truly a man of culture

[@whitewolf3051]

He's not the only one who play female character. As long there is *no* romance subplot or option in the game, then I play female character also. I think other players are the same also.

[@codyworley5623]

I'm a G.I.R.L.

[@sleepydragonzarinthal3533]

I'm a dude, my mother was a weird mix of a bit of a helicopter parent but also let me play just about any game (so, mostly just nosy I guess), and she had a cynical humor about asking silly questions with an eye rolling tone about many games I played, and once she asked "you play as female characters a lot, is that because you have to stare at their butt the whole time?" to which of course I said "of course, what would you do?" and she just walked off and never brought it up again haha

[@theclassyxenomorph1301]

I always play as a male. Idk why but I just feel more comfortable playing male characters.

[@dragonwarriorz1]

@@sleepydragonzarinthal3533 I've always hated this idea of "I play as female characters because why would I want to look at the butt of a man?" Like, your character almost never shows their butt in third person games unless you're Solid Snake or something. It makes no sense.

[@JacksawJack]

The Brass Shield might be your jam. 100% Physical block and when fully upgraded has the blocking power of an unupgraded Golden Greatshield. You can easily get them from the soldiers at the gateway camp where you first meet your maiden. Well, if they feel like dropping them. :p

[@sillygreatjaggi7946]

When he made that comment he only had the wooden greatshield but it seems later in the video he got the godrick knight greatshield which does do 100% if I remember correctly

[@djcuevas1057]

I’m supposed to be an astrologer. Yet all I use is that damn shield lol.

[@Delano777]

the brass shield is a heater shield he was talking about a kite shield

[@thedeegeesaga]

Brass shield with the Skill that improves blocking for a few seconds is amazing for counter with shields

[@Sines314]

Brass Shield is the Standard in this game, it's so good and universally useful. Especially important in a game where upgrading shields does have an effect, but you can't realistically level up multiple shields due to the limited Smithing Stones. The Beast Crest Heater Shield has a clear niche as the lightweight 100% Physical shield, and pretty much everything else is a specialty shield.

[@torshec8634]

Nice, can't wait for the "Exotic Weaponry" and the Glintstone Sorcery videos.

[@arya.n.8252]

And the the moonveil

[@aced4fun]

Keep in mind, Fromsoft reuses a lot of assets regarding animations and items from past games Which adds a sense of familiarity for new players but also shortens how much time they spend making a new game But there’s still a lot of useful insight in this video that I’d love to see implemented in the future

[@CaffeinatedWolfe]

I just started the game yesterday; it's my first Souls game and I'm loving it. I've thoroughly enjoyed all of your prior videos comparing video game weapons to their historical/ahistorical counterparts they were inspired by, and this one is no different. Thanks for such an interesting and educational piece!

[@CIoudStriker]

Actually, most weapon categories in the game have two or more moveset variants depending on which specific weapon you are using. For example, there actually are greatswords that are swung very similarly to how you demonstrated when talking about the weapon class.

[@natewilson745]

I'm glad you said something because I was going to comment the same.

[@tyler1673]

Would be nice if they took a note from modders and allowed you to choose which moveset you used on your weapon since there doesn't appear to be much stat difference and they're letting you choose weapon arts. Ds2 has some of my favorite move sets though so I may be odd.

[@BackwardsPancake]

@@tyler1673 DS2 did a lot of neat things with animations in general, and I'm really sad that these weren't kept for the following games. Like every weapon type having unique backstab/riposte animations that made sense, and the ability to parry with a unique animation when two-handing a weapon. It certainly made its PvP some of the most varied of any From game (at least after the balancing patches).

[@yaboicryingseal8279]

There are some greatswords, like the Knight's Greatsword or the Banished Knight's Greatsword, that have a different and much more controlled two-handed moveset

[@TheSeth256]

Good commentary! It's definitely true that making movesets using good techinque makes gameplay more enjoyable, although some degree of including a cool factor is important too. The categorisation of weapons is mostly done for game balance.

[@cosmokicksass]

Hi Shad! The way you showed her holding the kite shield at the end is also my favorite way! Ps. Cant wait for more of your fantasy book series.

[@agasteenbrink]

I would love a dive into the claw weapons, I am curious how the "wolverine claw" style weapons would hold up historically, you see them quite often in fantasy settings, especially for monks and stuff

[@SuicV]

He's actually got a video on wolverine claws already, shouldn't be hard to find

[@agasteenbrink]

@@SuicV oh cool, I did not know that. I will watch it as soon as I get the chance. Thank you!

[@widdershins5383]

They are based off of historical Indian Katar daggers I believe.

[@randomyoutubeuser261]

In Dark Souls the Character seems to be incapable of using a Greatsword without overswinging and it seems he can't even lift the weight, yet he can swing the Washing Pole (a Katana that's longer than some spears) totally flawlessly

[@michaandrzejsigismundfreih7900]

Try Knight's Greatsword, Banished Knight's Greatsword and Inseparable sword. The have completely realistic movesets.

[@musclegeek1991]

@@michaandrzejsigismundfreih7900 no they don’t

[@Animalace3]

@@musclegeek1991 Judging by the amount of comments that say otherwise, I'd say those swords have better animations than the rest. Maybe not totally realistic, but better than most.

[@Chrischos]

@@musclegeek1991 no u

[@musclegeek1991]

@@Animalace3 no.

[@extremelyboredtatsumaki.495]

Hey! Been a fan of tour videos for some time. I’m glad you’re doing good! I haven’t kept up with how you’ve been doing after that surgery but you look lively and healthy, and that’s great! That’s all. :)

[@Wyzai]

7:15 the explanation is fairly simple: Cutting, slashing and thrusting/piercing are different damage types. For game balance reasons you generally need to pick one. Most daggers are "slashing" because that makes them effective against unarmored foes and weak against armor.

[@wombat4191]

But the funny thing is, that is the exact opposite of what daggers are. They are supposed to be good against armor but with very limited range. Why would you want to use such a small blade for fast slashing when you can use light swords for that (or realistically should be able to)? I don't see any reason why daggers have to be slashing weapons for balance, instead of what they are actually good at.

[@Wyzai]

@@wombat4191 Not really. Daggers don't go through armor as far as I know. You use them to hit weak spots, which the game calls critical hits. You don't use daggers to punch holes in plate.

[@wombat4191]

@@Wyzai Yes, they are god against armor because of their precision at close range, allowing you to hit those weak spots. And stabs are still very effective against many types of armor, just not plate. And none of this changes the fact that daggers aren't slashing weapons. In fact, some weapons that can be classified as daggers do not even have a sharp edge to cut with.

[@wombat4191]

@The RedCabbage Wouldn't going through poise be balanced by the short range? Besides, I'm not saying that daggers should just go through all armor and have huge poise damage. Furthermore, the blades are short, so of course you can't do that much damage to big enemies, even if you get through their armor. But yes, I think stabbing with daggers should melt through some poise. As for bleeding, what is this assumption that daggers should be better at inflicting bleeding status that some other blades?

[@wombat4191]

@The RedCabbage But it's a game, which means that any mechanic can be balanced with correct parameters. Make them not inflict status so easily or not break so much poise that they would be broken. Or make something else balance them out, whatever. The point is that stabbing wouldn't need to make daggers unbalanced. Of course I personally have got nothing against the game depicting daggers as slashing weapons. Of course, From Software is in no way obliged to make their game realistic, and I believe looking cool or powerful is higher in their priority list, which is totally okay. But the video was about how the weapon usage could be more realistic, and I'm just arguing against the unviability of that realism.

[@iceblade019]

A lot of games really destroyed the elegance of two handed swords

[@tysayre3692]

Can't watch this now but I will say certain two handed "Greatswords" use proper stance and have a fantastic chain of light swings, the heavies are still awful. Unsure of if he found those/was sent them. Edit: If moveset videos are already a thing look for the Knights Greatsword, you swing it like a damn fool one-handed but two-handed it goes into proper swings, still stiff but edging closer to proper drills at least.

[@cloroxusthestainlessone4324]

@@tysayre3692 to be fair, swinging a greatsword with 1 hand isn't exactly going to be the most graceful action

[@CyberJellos]

@@cloroxusthestainlessone4324 True, but most of the weapons in the "greatsword" category in this game aren't actually greatswords, they're longswords.

[@Noizzed]

Not all weapons in the same category have the same moveset. I think you would love the Knight's Greatsword's moveset, sadly it can only be obtained by farming it from Knights, the enemies that wear a full plate set of armor, normally found roaming the open world.

[@ericfoltz1979]

Didn't see your post before I commented, but I'll give you a like so hopefully he sees one of these and reviews that moveset too!

[@josephyoung4224]

There's also the Banished Knight's Greatsword (which has the same moveset and would be arguably easier to get ahold of early in the game) and a likely late-game (though discoverable earlier) Ultra-Greatsword called the Godslayer, which has a surprisingly reasonable moveset for a UGS, even when one-handing it. These movesets still have plenty of telegraph for readability in gameplay, but they look far more real than all the slamming the weapon into the ground nonsense. Which rather makes me wonder why From didn't use it with more weapons of these categories; they clearly understand how to make these moves fluid and realistic without sacrificing the feel in gameplay.

[@hats1642]

I got like three while farming the Mausoleum Knight at the Black Knife Catacombs for his armour.

[@adammathews1222]

The brass shield you get them from the godrick soldiers at gate front area near the starting point where you get your horse use the silver scarab or fowl foot or both they drop the brass kite shield

[@captainpollman]

Fun vid Shad! I definitely would like to see more Elden Ring weapon analysis. Like another couple people have noted, there is definitely a more accurate greatsword moveset in the game!

[@nyankahana6447]

The funniest thing is the fact that you can weild Zweihänder (literally meaning Two-handed in German) in just one hand

[@4Curses]

They only weighed 2-3kg. They were called Zweihander because you would use two hands to effectively use them on the battlefield. Not because you can'tt use it with one hand. only

[@PJDAltamirus0425]

They were used is one hand. You use it like a spear in one hand. I sorta of get over swinging two handed weapons in one hand because heavier weapons have higher momentum so they would be harder to stop in one place than a lighter one.

[@sakesaurus1706]

@@4Curses yes,and it would get tiring to hold 3kg out away from your core in hand so you have to use both hands and keep it close to the core. Doesn't matter how trained you are

[@maxcarter50]

I think the overswinging especially is baked into the game's mechanics and balance. Every action has a windup, attack and then recovery frames so that each action has a cost to it. That overswing is when you get punished by an enemy if you get too greedy or don't time your attacks right. Also for the heavier weapons, they want those weapons to have longer animations because they hit harder and cause more stance break damage. It's necessary for balance, so I doubt they'll make it too accurate to how it's practically used.

[@Bertoleyus]

Except katanas don't suffer from this. They're fast, good damage, have bleed, good reach, and are animated extremely well to minimize the overswing and punishable window. Not much of a surprise, it seems the Japanese video game company is biased towards Japanese swords.

[@4Curses]

@@Bertoleyus The fun part is, I don't see anyone use katanas.

[@Bertoleyus]

@@4Curses have you been watching ANY PVP? They're all over the place. Especially duel wield + frost builds.

[@Sporrik]

Katanas are probably the most powerful weapons in the game right now for both PvP and PvE. Moonveil trivializes any encounter at lower skill levels, and dual-wield status builds are busted for anyone with a modicum of ability.

[@jooot_6850]

@@4Curses Moonveil is busted as hell. From my short foray into this game’s PvP (I’ve only recently renewed my Xbox live) I’ve seen a couple people using it and it’s pretty strong

[@Jake-ky4yj]

i started out as a warrior and loved the dual scimitars, but then i swapped to dual falchions for more damage and i had no idea the animation changed. i love your review, especially how you go back to "its a game and this certain historical accuracy would suck as actual gameplay" as for a kite shield with 100 physical, there's a few; the beast crest shield is fairly early on, in a chest in a soldiers camp. pretty heavily guarded. the kite shield can be bought from the merchant just before the swamp (If i remember correctly) and then there's a carian shield, not sure if its a normal drop from the soldiers or if you find it somewhere, but that's the one i'm still using in the end game.

[@Ixarus6713]

In defense of the weighty and overswung attacks with these swords, generally, these characters are not attacking normal soldiers, they are fighting giant dragons, giants and mythic creatures. If you were fighting a dragon, you'd want to put all of your weight behind that swing... Also the overswing is meant to allow you to combat groups by slashing multiple enemies at once. And Fromsoft games rely on the philosophy of telegraphed attacks and timing, you commit to every attack and the aim of the lengthy animations is to lock you into an attack and punish you if you mistime it. Plus some animations just look cooler exaggerated.. I can agree that the light attacks should be like in real life but for the heavy attacks, they should exaggerate the weight and strength of the weapon, because otherwise it feels "floaty"..

[@acnash27]

I think you missed out on the opportunity to talk about damage TYPES associated with different melee weapons. Slicing vs thrusting vs striking (with clubs/maces) all affect enemies differently, depending on their armor class/type. I found myself using the longsword for 30-40h before switching to the morningstar, because strike damage was just so much more useful later in the game. Granted this has been the case in every souls game, but I just think it's a missed opportunity to talk about other things they got right. Great video!

[@selenagamya1612]

I started using the morningstar as soon as I got it, and I haven't been able to swap to anything else since, because strike damage works so well against nearly everything. Plus bleed buildup is always a huge benefit.

[@pulatelephonics]

It’s not just to telegraph for pvp, but also how difficult/time consuming it would be to give each of the more obsolete swords unique animations

[@TheShachimaru]

Great video Shad I love your content! Question to everyone, as I only played with the uchigatana from the start and I have no idea how greatswords work: isn't the game changing the animation of swinging the greatswords depending on how many points you invest on your strength attribute? I may be completely out of touch with this question. Also, I don't really think they were going for historical accuracy as the game is totally on the fantasy side of things. I believe they mostly wanted the animation to represent the amount of damage that the weapon can do and counterbalance that with the speed at which it can be wielded rather than trying to realistically depict it. Still, exciting video to watch nonetheless!

[@redjakOfficial]

In terms of fencing weapons : a Fleuret dosen't have an edge and is thrust only, a sabre has one, an épée has two. They aren't wielded exactly in the same way.

[@zbigniewstonoga802]

Hey Shad, I see you haven't really covered any of the so called "weapon arts". You can use those usually by holding down the left trigger while two-handing a weapon. I really reccomend checking out some of them. Most of them are far from being realistic but they are really fun. In case of the longswords your character actually assumes an almost-proper guard stance :D

[@Gryzz1e]

Awesome video Shad!

[@grayrook8637]

One more point for the historical accuracy on the spear: when you attack on horse back your spear has a more different move set featuring upward and downward stabs. In comparison all the other weapons I have handled basically just clip a enemy as you ride by. I can't say for sure about how totally accurate it is but this channel has taught me to think critically so I imagine between the length and needing such little area to use it's effective cutting range without hurting your horse (goat? whatever Torrent is) making the spear a favored cavalry weapon is pretty on point.

[@chimericpaladin35813]

which is sad when you think of how often players both ignore and insult the spear categories for pvp, i mean i get it, its often better to wide swing to catch the other player and thrusts almost always miss against players, but still maybe that'll change now that youve got a mount and spear will become popular in pvp but for some reason i doubt it

[@edisontrent618]

@@chimericpaladin35813 You can't ride the horse in PvP, so it definitely won't change that.

[@chimericpaladin35813]

@@edisontrent618 seriously?! what the f fromsoft, you give us a mount and advertise mounted combat but dont let mounted pvp happen, damn, i imagine alot of people are or going to be salty about that one.

[@edisontrent618]

@@chimericpaladin35813 Mount is too good for movement and getting out of bounds, the PvP is broken enough as it is.

[@chimericpaladin35813]

@@edisontrent618 so they just crush the dreams of everybody who wanted to joust each other in a fromsoft game, damn i could just imagine what sort of things could be possible with mounted pvp builds, a dedicated mounted pvp area like the area radahn hangs out in or maybe some other spot that has obstacles to make use of enhanced mounted mobility, and a discord server/reddit chat or similar group.

[@Sousabird]

Because the people who worked on the game *really* like Berserk.

[@kelvinsantiago7061]

Rip Kentaro Miura he will always be in our hearts. Alongside Stan Lee

[@robinthrush9672]

I remember when I was playing Final Fantasy 11 in college and I was playing a paladin/warrior build with a shield and using the mechanics to my advantage (increasing skill for a shield was very slow) and getting amazed healers that were bored with how little damage I was taking and then Square updated defensive stats so that shield no longer nullified damage (but parry still did!). I don't know why game devs think a shield shouldn't nullify damage, but a parry should.

[@sassygenetics1998]

Some other weapons I'd like to see your opinion on. The Carian Knight's Sword/Lazuli Glintstone blade as they have a unique heavy attack where they hold it over their head before doing a downward swing, this also counts as a partial block. The banished Knight's Greatsword/ Knight's great features a more elegant moveset than the greatswords you showed. Rogier's Rapier has a different heavy from the rest of the Rapier weapons. Then there are other weapon types like the Greatspear and I'd love to see your opinion on some of the Dual wield/ Powerstanced weapon movesets

[@vornamenachname9587]

To the first part, about the animations overswinging: This, too, is gameplay related. Enemies come in different shapes and sizes and - of course - in groups. While some people may dispute it, the hit detection in Soulsborne and Elden Ring by extension is quite precise. That means that the motions you showed around the 11:08 have far smaller "hit areas" (except for the final slash) than the overswung motions in the game. Your motions implemented in the game would lead to far more misses against smaller enemies and less hits against groups of enemies thereby making the game both more difficult and frustrating having your character continually miss. Furthermore, you only have two types of basic attacks, light and heavy. Ideally, both types of attack and their combos should be useful against all types of enemies, thus making wide swings a better option. Having different combos for different types of enemies would probably allow the introduction of more realistic moves, but that sounds like a coding nightmare.

[@-DeScruff]

The hit detection on melee certainly is precise, and its that precision that makes me hate how the Zweihander handles. (Try using it to break glowing skulls. - No rolling. Only reliable way is to do jump attacks) This might sound specific but, the Zweihander has the tendency to knock down enemies and it doesn't have a good way to hit low to the ground enemies straight in front of you, besides that jump attack. Side note: The hit detection with ranged is not nearly as accurate, or technically is actually too accurate and suffers from game logic problems. Play a mage for a fair amount of time and you will notice sometimes with an enemy running towards (specially faster enemies or horseback) you your magic attack will go right through them without actually causing damage. This might be a game logic issue because collision detection happens every 1/60th of a second, and if a projectile travels further then the size of it's hitbox in 1 frame, it can phase through an object. (Think: a 1 pixel 'bullet' moving 8 pixels per frame, has the chance to phase through a 3 pixel wide wall) - I don't think this ever happens with targets standing still, but can happen with smaller faster moving targets charging right towards the projectile.

[@iota-09]

@@-DeScruff just a question: does lowering the camera in this game still have you swing lower, like in ds3? i haven't yet had a chance to test that out as with the weapns i use(mainly greatsword and straight swords) i tend to be able to hit pretty much anything i lock-on to.

[@-DeScruff]

@@iota-09 For the most part yes! that said its still oddly hard to hit things lower then you with certain weapons

[@tomjon369]

Shad you're missing the key concept that goes into how the devs animate these weapons. They didn't make a mistake or not know how the weapon realistically would be used, they made an INTENTIONAL choice to sacrifice realism in support of gameplay. Tempo is the most important thing in how fromsoft designs its combat. Many of these weapons, spears and smaller sword categories especially in real life are utilized much more quickly and nimbly than the devs want them to in game, to perserve the desired tempo. If the zweihander could be swung in game as quickly as you swing it in real life that would cause serious balance issues beacause of the damge it deals, the heavy meaty overswings are conveying the weapons power as it has a higher base damage and strength scaling than smaller swords. The overswinging also helps to cleave multiple enemies for when you are surrounded or corned which often happens. Realistic medieval combat in a game WOULD be neat but simply does not fit into the fromsoft formula, so realism is PURPOSELY sacrificed by the devs to preserve gameplay. Anyways sorry for the rant, I'm glad you're enjoying the game and would like to see a video on the more ridiculous weapons.

[@JarieSuicune]

Which... just makes it sound like you somehow missed the key concept of this video: applying the real-world logic to the game. OBVIOUSLY there are sacrifices in realism done for style in video games, Shad even straight out says it!

[@myco9253]

Even then why would the devs make the o-katana so much better than the european equivalents? Clearly you can find a middle ground between gameplay and realism without completely chucking away how the weapons would have actually been utilized by a skilled fighter.

[@Earthslastlegend]

Amazing video and yes I'm no weapons expert by any stretch of the imagination but you can definitely tell and feel what's real and what's over exaggerated when handling the weapons. I specifically avoid the more lumbering over swung and clumsy weapons because it's just too impractical! Thanks man, this was awesome!

[@Regi3Australian]

Great vid, loved it, I'm gonna look into a shield build for my faith build now. Also, can't wait for you to find the hand balista 😂 please do reaction to the mote fantastical weapons. Especially the holy script you use to stab people lmao

[@musclegeek1991]

Unfortunately this kind of thing has become so prevalent that I feel like a game that realistically depicts great swords would have complaints about being “floaty” and “unrealistic”.

[@acolddarkgentlebruh8205]

The Drakeblood Greatsword in DS3 had a more realistic two handed R1 moveset, and I'm wondering if there's some that still has that moveset, since they've added movesets from nearly all the games. Still a lot of overswing, but a much more skilful looking moveset with a return to a guard position

[@alxsblv6164]

@@acolddarkgentlebruh8205 Banished Knigt Greatsword and Knights Greatsword has same animations.

[@acolddarkgentlebruh8205]

@@alxsblv6164 Nice, thanks

[@musclegeek1991]

@@acolddarkgentlebruh8205 is it the curved great sword move set?

[@Edge9404]

FROM games are not realistic. Colossal weapons are fun because they feel so heavy and impactful.

[@NoblesseOblige-17]

FromSoft always intentionally included that shield mechanic, that they get lowered while attacking with a non-thrusting weapon. It's their way of balancing them and giving certain weapon types their niches. It is unrealistic, yeah, but intended. Btw, really liked the video, I'd love to see a 2nd round when you get more/all weapons.