Shai Agassi: A new ecosystem for electric cars

www.ted.com Forget about the hybrid auto -- Shai Agassi says it's electric cars or bust if we want to impact emissions. His company, Better Place, has a radical plan to take entire countries oil-free by 2020.
TEDTalks is a daily video podcast of the best talks and performances from the TED Conference, where the world's leading thinkers and doers give the talk of their lives in 18 minutes. TED stands for Technology, Entertainment, Design, and TEDTalks cover these topics as well as science, business, development and the arts. Watch the Top 10 TEDTalks on TED.com, at www.ted.com/ind...
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[@metsesell]

ahh it is so comforting to hear there are people out there working seriously to get these things actually done .. thank you

[@LuminaryXion]

I could listen to him talk for hours... This is quite a man, who's dedicated so much to this. Admirable, impressive, and truely inspiring.

[@INUID]

The first electric car was build between 1880 and 1890 (like the "Flocken Elektrowagen"). Hundred years ago (1910-1925?) more electric cars are driven as gasoline cars in some cities. What are we talking?

[@vincentyang3928]

2020 is coming

[@liltachanka9913]

its here boy

[@irkiIIer]

and google says its still 4 cents a mile lmao

[@fergus247]

They are. People are giving this guy, Shai Agassi, too much credit. Look up Tesla Motors for example. Id rather listen to their views of the future, they actually have an electric car in production. Its a roadster, looks great, goes from 0-60 mph in less than 4 seconds. Bravo

[@polymath7]

What report are you referring to? 6% of the *entire* land surface that falls within the boundaries of the United States may not sound like much, but this is a huge chunk of the relatively flat, open, presently undeveloped land that would be *available*. This would also be an enormous project. To put it in perspective, concrete -all the cites and roads- presently covers less than ten percent of the land surface.

[@rmcdaniel423]

@ 1:45 "We are bound with the laws of physics and the laws of economics." . . . "How do you do it from the power of the consumer, up... not from the power of an edict, down." How utterly refreshing to hear someone who is seriously working for environmental issues, that also understands the reality of science and economics. The green revolution will blossom best when economics are taken into account. It is coming, inevitably, and the dinosaurs that don't change will surely die. As they should.

[@meneeredwin]

Good concept. Especially about the split in car/battery ownership and the exchangeable batteries.

[@patflah]

Yes. It helps to listen again (multiple times if necessary). The number 80 that Agassi refers to is, supposing a kind of Moore's law in the future drop in cost of battery miles (better energy density, etc), by 2020 his battery miles - which are currently 8 cents/mile become 2 cents/mile. And his supposing the 40 mile/gallon ICE automobile, his 2 cents/mile becomes an 80 cent gallon of oil. (2 * 40 = 80). I found his use of his numbers confusing (obviously) and smacking of hucksterism.

[@bannor99]

@TheArfdog Renault has a roadmap of models starting with the EV version of the Fluence. I don't understand why the LEAF doesn't have a switchable battery, considering that they are practically one company and Renault doesn't have significant North American prescence while Nissan does.

[@bannor99]

@TheArfdog He's pulling all the pieces together - but you're wrong about the car coming first since current electrics have range limitations and that's the piece that Better Place intends to provide. Have a charging spot where you're likely to be for more than a quick stop - at home, the office, the movies,etc and have a swap station for the long trips where stopping for more than a few minutes at a time would be an inconvenience.

[@shuforce]

for those who thinks battery pollutes, keep in mind that the first thing car companies like honda and toyota buys back when the car get into an accident is the battery. it's because it's recyclable. even acid battery gets recycle too, go visit the car junk yard before throwing in your contradiction. any idea is better then no idea, Agassi is actually trying something here.

[@d1oftwins]

@renehenckens 1: To get that many batteries requires production on a MASSIVE scale yes, mass production is needed, as well as for fixed battery EVs. But that has nothing to do with your prior question. 2: Because charging costs money Of course it does, but YOU are paying for the charge. So by contract Better Place has to deliver you a fully charged battery. I don't understand your concern in this point. 3: eehm...what? The battery is heated or cooled so a constant temperature is maintained.

[@Atoyota]

This may sound crazy, but for recharges at any location on the power grid, if we had a network ID system that identified the user charging, and remote billing at a standard rate, plug in anywhere would be easy. Couple that with a way to charge while in motion on major roadways, your range would increase as well. I think the idea of battery switching/replacement would then only become a matter of battery age and recycling.

[@fergus247]

Shai Agassi, if his vison is so great, his product so superior, why does he need to persuade governments around the globe to adopt these? If these products and visions were really so good, people would buy them people would adopt the ideas. This guy is just trying to establish a monopoly on the future electic car fueling market, using the power of the state. And he is doing a damn good job so far. Monopolies are not known to make the world "A better place"

[@bannor99]

@pianovocal Actually, most of the infrastructure is already there - the electrical grid. The Battery Swap stations are to deal (mostly) with range anxiety for the long trip. The other part is the installation of charge spots. My enthusiasm for Agassi's plan is that he does keep it real - he's really thought this through. There's a 1hr talk in Australia that gives more info as to the economics of the plan. Also, his plan doesnt need any new inventions - we've seen too many that didn't deliver.

[@OneoftheImmortals]

midare, I have. I also love their roadster . . . BUT it is neither being mass marketed nor affordable. I would like to see the likes of a 1974 Eldorado and the 2009 Pontiac Roadster being mass produced with electric batteries and cost under $18,000.

[@wokemorty727]

energy from burning coal is part of the reason he didn't consider hydrogen because it worked out to using more coal powered electrons than clean. his proposition is to provide charging stations in every parking lot (as is already available in scandanavia) and battery exchange stations. clean charging is provided for, and battery exchange stations serve the equivalent of gas stations. there is no need for people to charge at home just like people don't fill up their gas tanks at home.

[@OversizedTwit]

It's efficiency of scale. The idea is that even a single, efficient coal plant (depending on the kind of coal being used) produces less carbon output that the energy output of all the automobile engines it would be replacing. I don't have the figures in front of me so I don't know that that particular example is necessarily, specifically true. But the general theory is actually quite sound.

[@MRSketch09]

Actually, in Japan they have developed an electrolyte solution for batteries.. you can drink it. It just doesn't taste good. There was an article over at jalopnik com todays date 4-13-09

[@Jahaison]

One question I would like to ask is would you move toward recyclable batteries and how then would batteries that follow a recyclable plan then affect the economic outlook of the cars?

[@eLurkr]

one problem i see is that if it takes 1 min of charge to charge for one min of driving, suppose you ran out of energy on your way to a place.... would you have to stay there for the length of your road trip?

[@thisistheendpt2]

The concept is to swap the battery taking a fraction of the time it takes you to fill your tank with petrol. A smart system would direct debit your account upon the machine swapping it over. Easy :)

[@FederationAdmiral]

simple, things like Fusion Power Plants are under development, the Infinite Battery (already developed), and other such devices.

[@roidroid]

it was interesting what he said about the car companies, how they are only interested in hybrids. We all know the popular rumours that the car companies are in league with the oil companies, but never has it been made so obvious to me. Listening to this talk - it now seems obvious to me.

[@pianovocal]

Dandaniels1978 I was not commenting on how long it would take to swap a battery. My concern is the infrastructure. Which like anything else on a national or global would take years to implement, electric grid or no electric grid. Batteries for such a concept or currently very expensive. Even GM has not started selling the Volt because of cost factors. Tesla starting at $95,000 for their electric car, it is a little high for the general population.

[@TheArfdog]

@greendaymotors The cost of burning coal is miniscule compared to the cost of running a gasoline engine?? what??

[@Jrsutton922]

@Bailey Actually, no, it's completely feasible. We already have the technology, and the automakers can add the receiver in the assembly line. All that needs to be done is create the program the organizes it, and places the technology along the highway system. It will be expensive initially, yeah, but as stated, it will quickly pay itself back in money saved.

[@livebyreason]

When his company puts battery stations where i go then i will consider. The oil companys have already made the effort to market oil to me.

[@1966human]

To luiza2166 ethonol isnt good enough, it produces polution and noise and ethanol is still using the fossel fuel system. There is no ifs buts or mabys on this subject. The man who gave the speech is 100% correct with his ideas.

[@DanieltheBibleNerd]

Is there somehwere I can read the details of his plan? How would the infrastructure be developed and how much would it cost? How does battery swapping reduce the cost? How do we get the powerplants needed to provide all of the electricity and would it come from nuclear, solar, or what. How does he overcome the problems of solar and wind in terms of consistent energy production? What about the grid?

[@midare]

Have you checked out Telsa Motors? They have a sedan coming out soon "Model S" ... I love their roadster, personally.

[@mo1elftausend]

You still need to fill the battery. So you replace oil by mostly coal, oil, nuclear and a little bit of renewable energy.

[@PremierSullivan]

Even if, hypothetically, the US were to get its electrical power 100% from coal, because the gas powered car is so inefficient, electric cars would still produce less emissions.

[@pianovocal]

I feel it would be wiser to use a hybrid that uses flex fuel that uses gas among other more cost efficient and greener choices. This way we use the current infrastructure and start going towards a more efficient energy and green energy source, be it electrical (if it does not use coal to be made), hydrogen,bio fuels or etc.

[@2Plankah]

Great talk but he barely talks about where the power comes from. He mentioned wind mills and solar panels as the power source but is that going to be enough to support the massive and increasing numbers of cars? The majority of power stations in the US still run off of fossil. It is a great start though and I hope more minds like his come together to fix this growing problem.

[@YourHealthyPlanet1]

There is also a very good three part presentation on KZbin with Agassi and he answers many of the concerns, some you've raised too. With the collaboration they have with Tesla Motors and Renault/Nissan and the context of creating a sustainable clean personalised transport system they will minimise pollution, and remember that pollution is simply fuel for another process once we understand the whole picture. Some of the cars being manufactured have very high recyclibility.

[@pianovocal]

There are other options. I cannot go into detail, but I know one company out there who is making the better mouse trap. This mouse trap will have the POWER to push big vehicles including tractor trailers, with amazing fuel mileage. No batteries needed.

[@bannor99]

@pianovocal Did you listen to his talk? I guess not - his whole business plan is built around the consumer NOT owning the battery. You buy the car, battery not included, and then you buy a mileage plan. The miles you buy are provided to you in the form of a swappable, chargeable battery.

[@jewlzorjay]

Yeah but who foots the bill when a faulty batt breaks som1's car? or when som1 crashes and breaks the batt? how are they going to be able to store the diffrent types of batt? imagine a pump that pulses electricty all you have to do is set it to your batt and fill it like a petrol car. Technologically i think changing the batt is a step backwards its like saying change your gas tank every time you need a refill. the best thing to do is work on filling that batt quicker.

[@Traviskolber]

@sbhuyan It can come from a lot of different sources. Solar power, hydrogen power, tidal power, nuclear power. There are many options other than oil.

[@eLurkr]

Awesome, the only problem i see is that charging centers will become like parking spots...! waiiiit what if each parking spot had its own charging station?? like the parking meters anyways, great idea

[@TheArfdog]

@Jrsutton922 Interesting, but wouldn't there be a problem with dispersion on cloudy days for lasers? I'm not sure what obstacles there are to radio, but i'm sure they are substantial. Can radio waves be made as coherent as visible lasers? Like a radio wave laser?

[@BrooklynOx]

Envision this battery swap system in the Rocky Mountain Institute Hypercar....game changer.

[@rmcdaniel423]

Battery exchanges. Sorta like how we exchange propane tanks here in the US. Take your empty one anywhere, anytime, and get a full one immediately. Brilliant! With that model, the people who cry about limited range no longer have a valid objection. In the immortal words of Captain Picard: "MAKE IT SO!!!"

[@Finiras]

no it is not expensive at all actually, compared to the other electricity 'sources'. and the technology is advanced enough to ensure that there will never be an accident like that.

[@800lbgorillainc]

I agree with you cooley47td, the electric car will be like the hybrid if that, they are doing this to make people think theyre trying to give them a choice, there is too much money in performance parts and classic restorations to put that many electric cars on the road, at least here in the USA

[@sbhuyan]

What i dont understand is....He talks about reducing fuel and charging batteries while parking.....dont we need power to charge the cars????or is that not coming from fossil fuels???

[@chawk111]

But the power still has to be generated somehow right? Presumably it's more efficient to do this on a grand scale (power plant --> grind --> car) than on a much smaller one (car's combustion engine) and the resulting pollution reduced more effectively.

[@pianovocal]

bannor99 I agree with arfdog. To change the infrastructure, would be huge. I can appreciate your enthusiasm bannor99, I am all for enthusiasm, but along with enthusiasm one needs to keep it real. I have studied different inventions out there about cars of the future. Trust me there are great ideas out there, that will not demand such an infrastructure to make no gas or extremely high mileage POWERFUL car a reality.

[@pianovocal]

Also electricity currently is not always done cleanly. Coal is a product we use to create electricity. Coal is not the best thing for the air. I do want to move away from dependency of oil. But electricity is not the only option.

[@BigO8872]

I think that is a great talk and is one of my favorites, especially because I am from the Detroit area. The problems I see with it are just as previous posters have said, the cost once taxes are added will be just as high as what we are paying now. Great idea though, and I would love to see one of the big three jump on it and take it as far as possible,

[@n8iveidiot13]

in the davos afternoon... that might be a city because i dont think it is an english word it may be from another country though all together (sorry if this was hard to read or not) i hope i helped

[@d1oftwins]

@renehenckens 1:Like shuforce already said, batteries are recyclable - 90% of a lithium battery if I remember right. 2:Why the hell should the battery swap station give you a not fully charged battery? Jeez!?! There will be enough capacity per swap station so this doesn't happen. 3:The Batteries have a climate system for that situation.

[@bannor99]

@TheArfdog It looks like the US Congress can't get anything done lately and it will probably get worse soon. Agassi is taking a state-by-state approach in the US - California and Hawaii are on-board. I think Australia will be the acid test - if that works out, Better Place will have less trouble convincing countries but they're doing pretty good so far.

[@DrZenith]

I've read recently (The Economist, technical quarterly supplement) that some researchers have come up with a new type of battery which can be recharged in around 5 minutes. If that's so, and assuming the car has a range per charge of 100 miles or so then the electric car is already a feasible alternative to the internal combustion engine.

[@princeofexcess]

Im not talking about electricity being more expensive then gas. I am talking about clean electrons being more expensive then coal electrons and therefor the cost of charging a car at a station that uses clean electors will be bigger then charging it at home(where u get coal electrons). And if clean electrons were efficient we would already use them. And increased use of electricity would create bigger need for it which would mean more coal plants as well

[@MoDa87]

even 8 cents a mile is less than what I pay now in the uk. plus my car is cheaper in the first place. So what is the issue. Batteries do follow moore's law, but even if they did not. 8 cents is good enough for me.

[@princeofexcess]

if the car charges you can charge it with whatever electrons you want the ones from coal too and people will charge it that way he says that you could charge it all with clean electrons doesnt mean its going to happen sadly. We have electric cars now and people charge them with the coal electrons i dont see how he was proposing to change that

[@in4theride75]

Don't quote Wikipedia, it makes you sound stupid. And I would like to see the source you found 3% from. In actuality most geothermal plants produce at most half of that amount. Binary geothermal is tested and reported as emitting zero carbon dioxide. Flash geo. is rated around 60 lbs./MWH which is 27.2 kgs./MWH. The dirty style of geo. is geyser geo which emits around 80 lbs/MWH or 36.3 kg/MWH. But geyser geo actually filters what comes out and reduces CO2 in the air. Modern Geothermal is clean.

[@Right3ousMan]

Could I get the link for this 3 part video you speak of?

[@sivakumarsivanandham8672]

I joined the KZbin link. But attendance link not came

[@Trazynn]

@Jrsutton922 Sounds lovely but cold fusion sounds more feasible than that, which isn't that feasible.

[@d1oftwins]

@renehenckens 4:Like Agassi in the video already said, Better Place is buying energy from alternative sources. 5:WTF?!? Do you think that Better Place will run down the batteries to the last kWh so that their customers only get 1 mile per battery swap? Really? Of course there will be a certain threshold where "worn" batteries are sorted out but it will be way before 40 miles per battery.

[@mwtillotson]

Did you really just derail a conversation by attacking his favorites list? That's really what we need on KZbin - more ad hominem arguments. Good job.

[@in4theride75]

Ah, but an electric car's top end speed and torque are significantly less then a combustion fueled car. In a race where there was tons of slowing down and speeding up at low speeds they are amazingly better, but in races where they maintain high speeds they get wasted.

[@DrZenith]

Creating a mass market will be the thing. As soon as the electric car becomes a real alternative and takes off in the States then the battle will be won. (I agree with you about the TED vids, the best of them are truly excellent)

[@killingswitch]

The name Shai means "gift".. . This is certainly the case for him, bravo!

[@Jonobos]

Ah, the call of the terminally unimaginative. "If it doesn't fix everything then it isn't worth doing." This sort of change IS going to happen. It isn't a matter of if, but of when. You can either get on board or be left behind. Tackle one problem (like the auto industry) and watch the others fall into line.

[@MoDa87]

i think you should actualy research the subject more. this guy has the solution now to change the whole system by 2020, not wait years and years for new batteries. and nissan-renault are bringing out electric cars by next year, build for this system.

[@gadzometer]

Yes. And don't forget geothermal, tidal and wave. I live in Australia and we have massive amounts of open unused land. The wind conditions may not be ideal all the time but at the moment we are squeezing oil out of coal seams and shale oil. We are happy to burn the methane into the air, salinate the soil and invest huge amounts of money in making new cost effective retrieval methods. Just invest this in wind and geothermal instead.

[@pianovocal]

Of course the engine or motor would have to be much more efficient then or current engines.

[@Traviskolber]

@pianovocal But it is the most stable and most efficient at our current tech level. He already said he tried biofuels and hydrogens for cars, and they didn't work. Solar panels on cars would just be fucking moronic. Any other options? Not right now.

[@MasterFebo]

This is all great, and I think electric cars are the only way forward, but lets look at all the perspectives here: Electric car models are different from normal cars. You do not need gears, or an axis, or strictly speaking a steering axis. small motors can be put directly in the wheels and one is goes faster if you want to turn. So to make it short: all car manufacturing plants and oil refining plants are now useless and need to be remodeled. next step? how will this affect the economy?

[@Godsfree]

Forget the numbers. Pared to its essentials, this is a very good idea and could be entirely workable for a large portion of the people. Any system that can use non-polluting renewable energy (solar, wind, hydro) to produce portable energy (battery, fuel cell, etc.) is a great place to start. What other viable near-term choice is there?

[@pianovocal]

One of the problems with the electric car is the battery. Batteries are very expensive to buy. Take the Prius, after 5 years when it is time to replace the battery, get ready to open your wallet to the tune of $6000!!!! There are other very clean ways to go. Much less costly on the pocket book, and is more powerful then electric cars.

[@Traviskolber]

@renehenckens Too late. Denmark and Israel already support both programs. You get free parking spots, massive subsidies, tax breaks, AND the car is cheaper in the first place. Face it, this is the way of the future.

[@LusoCMD]

spot on, electric is the way to go we must go this way for the love of our children and not go with what big car companies say we need to go on, they are affraid they'll lose their scarcity monopoly, but we must make them change or else they'll lose the market all together while this develops, companies should greatly increase current cars mileage efficiency and go for hibrids, forget hydrogen!! then slowly turn everything electric and powered by the sun,wind and maybe nuclear

[@victoire781]

I just saw a documentary about Shai Agassi ! He is like Steve Jobs ! Visionary Man ! "Better place" amazing idea. ( from France )

[@chri77777777]

Yes ^^^ that is exactly what I would love everybody to be greatful for Shai's work - and not only focus on BPLC seeming to fail ....

[@Pashtenok]

@32ndegree Guys, sorry to to disappoint you. But he is Israeli. Jewish. Shay is a Hebrew name. Agassi means of-a-Pear in Hebrew. Agassi is a 1990 Technion computer science graduate. Technion is in Israel. Look for his lecture in in Hebrew before the 2008 Industrial Engineering and Management Graduates in Technion.

[@YourHealthyPlanet1]

Some AMAZING breakthroughs are happening all around the world ... reducing the cost of solar for instance by 42% in just one year. These breakthroughs are unstoppable and electric cars are coming our way, along with clean energy in all fields.Thank you Shai for your amazing vision for the world.

[@rmcdaniel423]

You asked about motorsports with electric cars. You might find this interesting. Bear in mind this guy builds these cars in his home garage. Imagine what whole race teams with big sponsorship financing could do. Search KZbin for "Electric Car Drag Racing | Oregon Field Guide | OPB". Electric cars can built to have some serious balls! :-)

[@stopcrazypp]

I take it you aren't a high tech person, the li-poly batteries today are nontoxic and are landfill safe. Lithium batteries are in general extremely low toxicity batteries . We are no longer using only lead acid batteries that we drive around in cars, which contain lead which ranks among the most toxic metals. Lithium is different. You basically can't beat nontoxic in some of the newer types. & yes recycling is the answer for the rest, what do think we do with car batteries?

[@polymath7]

"The battery is not like the oil. It isn't source odd energy." Of course it isn't, but I don't see where he implied the obverse. He clearly suggests that the power for the cars will come from wind and solar. Though to be sure, this is highly debatable and the forty-five seconds or so he spends on this proposition are comically short of any sufficient -let alone cogent - expatiation.

[@ikeusa]

I'm curious how state governments will fund their transportation projects in a petrol free economy - battery swap taxes presumably.

[@trakkaton]

Electric cars are the best way to go if you want to continue with cars. However, it would be MUCH better to end suburbia, end individual transportation, start with public transportation or HPVs. Cars have a lot of neglected problems: Ground sealing, noise, accidents (we're talking millions of people here!), and a car needs half of the energy DURING PRODUCTION!

[@GrimSoul66]

So what is going to happen to all of the batterys?

[@OneoftheImmortals]

guitar2adam, these videos give me such hope for the present and very near future.

[@dancerlabe1]

Interesting. Awesome ideas there man. I'm planning on buying a brand-new car for my parent's 25th anniversary. This has totally helped me.

[@princeofexcess]

@TheArfdog Nuclear plants are only expensive to build there are less expensive to operate then coal plants. (also we just developed technology to burn the nuclear waste from nuclear plants to get even more energy from it ) Comparing to renewable energy nuclear is really cheap!

[@benjis007]

someone clarify for me how this is a good solution considering that most of our electricity generation comes at a great cost in oil or burning of other fossil fuels (coal)...??? So, isn't electricity just oil twice removed? Help me out.

[@garadgd]

i still don't get it how do they produce a mass amount of electricity i the US without coal and fossil fuels. I get that they have windmills in denmark and a solar panel in israel or w.e But how to we get enough electricity in the US???

[@gmcannon]

man I want electric cars to be available... it'd be dope.

[@tofujiny]

Tesla Model S voted unanimously by Car and Driver Automobile of the Year 2012. First unanimous vote and first electric car.

[@MoDa87]

i never read anywhere that he actualy got money from the government, as far as i know better place is paying for everything themselfs, all they need from the governments is the legislation in place to do so. ie building permissions. if you can find me a source that states how much better place as a company gets from any government, please let me know, as i have not found any. thanks

[@wokemorty727]

he said CLEAN electrons...meaning NOT FROM COAL...he specifically mentions this...

[@FreiheitKampfer]

I am happy to see people sitting there.. Yes. The guy is recommending eco-fascism. If it were really a good idea, then he would be taking the private route. My econ-tip: short-sell solar-panels. Why? because government agents are irrational since they aren't spending their own money.

[@napertownclown]

This is what will help get the US out of the recession.

[@800lbgorillainc]

This electric car bit is bull because if you remember the wind-up toy then you know that they can create a car that makes it's own energy as it moves, as it moves it would constantly charge itself, but if you wanted to make money it is not a good idea