Zwift Trainer Difficulty: Faster Climbing on Zwift? // 350W Lama Lab Test

The Zwift Trainer Difficulty put to the test up Watopia Wall - Same watts, same conditions, one lap with the setting at 100%, the next at 0%. Does it have any impact on my in-game speed? Remember to click SUBSCRIBE to support this KZbin channel: bit.ly/3aUph9W
Watopia Wall Lap #1 - 354W 2:18
Watopia Wall Lap #2 - 352W 2:20
Thanks!
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#zwift #cycling #fitness

[@patjschmidt]

The best way I can express the setting is: If the same power is put out at 0% and 100% you will cover the same segment in the same time BUT the gears you use will be different. The slider is a virtual cassette IMO...

[@Ocky3533]

This is what I've been searching for. Just hooked up everything yesterday and I am riding around in 52/11 like it's nothing...and I certainly can't do that in RL. Was trying to figure out if I needed to adjust the Kickr or the setting in Zwift, so I'll try this tomorrow.

[@Thomas-fy9yc]

Did you calibrate the trainer? I actually feel it’s slightly harder than real life cycling

[@scottromine4955]

I agree. I find it harder to maintain wattage on climbs than on flats in Zwift. Opposite in real life.

[@danzirulez]

Haha, I put an 11-32 cassette, to climb alpe du zwift. Default 50% setting. I could have just popped the slider back to about 25% :-D Read about the slider, but up until this video I never understood it. Best explanation. TY Lama! :)

[@7371301]

It’s a gear selector! Plain and simple. If you can’t ride up a hill in Zwift because your front ring(s) are HUGE then lower the Difficulty in Zwift. If your front ring(s) are small then increase difficulty. Zwift gives you things so you don’t have to regear your bike. RIDE ON!

[@jamessingleton4856]

Pretty impressive to be talking 'seemingly easily' with a heart rate of 180! Motivational stuff

[@ptocknell]

Watching you hold 350 and not having any difficulty breathing reminds me of watching Beachbody instructor Shaun T talk through the insanity workouts. Excellent video and outstanding job on both of those climbs.

[@jeremywalter9238]

Hi Shane, nice to see that you’ve made a video about something we discussed a few days ago 👍🏻👏🏻

[@bryanpearson8954]

As always great video Shane and the best explanation of trainer difficulty I have seen. Much easier to understand.

[@EmmettPate]

I may be wrong, but it still seems like the best way to get folks to understand the slider is to equate it to swapping out the bike's (or trainer's) cassette. Without the slider, you'd be forced to swap cassettes when going, for example, between Volcano Flat and Alpe du Zwift. The slider is like a virtual cassette swap. Just as in the real world, changing a cassette doesn't change the climb's gradient but it certainly changes how you approach the climb.

[@Psyk078]

That would indeed make a lot more sense, call it cassette swap and just add an hint like "Heading for the hills? swap to a bigger cassette to spin!"

[@johanvandermerwe2928]

Emmett Pate This is how I worked it out for myself. I rode Alpe d Huez once with a triple chain blade set and once with a compact. I found Alpe du Zwift hard on a 39-25 combo and much better using a 34-25. That’s when I thought the difficulty slider which is always set to 75 might just make that difference

[@GreenTeeProductions]

Emmett Pate, so glad you said this. I watched this because I’m out of gears and was thinking about buying a new cassette. But I’ll just tweak this setting instead!

[@GreenTeeProductions]

Emmett Pate, so glad you said this. I watched this because I’m out of gears and was thinking about buying a new cassette. But I’ll just tweak this setting instead!

[@DaveHarper]

Nice video but this simple comment is what makes it make sense. Just saying, the only difference is how it feels in the legs(?), doesn’t explain anything. Saying its like changing cassettes makes perfect sense and is understood. That said, Love the videos you do!

[@alexhumphreys2609]

Great demonstration and it helps me understand. Big difference which should be worth mentioning is the influence on the cadence max and min has.

[@evertidema3338]

Loved the video ( and the setup). I normally run just a bit under 100%. Around 80% derefed thru a pragamatic approach of gears,cadance and enjoying a climb.

[@lifeafterlon]

I did wonder too. 🤔 Thanks for the great vid Shane.

[@ashfield001]

Shane you’re a bloody legend. Simo.

[@zedgee4514]

i just started zwift trial on a volt so ill be checking out your vids thanks good content.

[@jayshockey5461]

Great stuff as always! Love yer videos!

[@cliveking7976]

Having done similar tests with 100%, 0% and 50% up the Epic KOM, the real benefit that I also see for lower % is the fact you don't run out of gears on the block. Keeps the chain straighter! Reduces the little & big combo for long periods and allows better control of cadence. Leaving at 50% feels right, but for races 20% to reduce the gear changes 👍

[@richardmathew1969]

Clive King spot on!

[@kidsafe]

There’s a benefit to increased flywheel speed/momentum. It means the whole system is less sensitive to whatever disjoint pedaling style you have. It’s why trainers with tiny flywheels and strong resistance units almost always feel like pedaling through sand. You’re forced to work different muscles (calves/hamstrings) and while the total amount of work is the same, those smaller muscles tend to fatigue / give out faster.

[@joopvanroy6599]

so you're saying a bigger gear on a Neo or a Kickr would be better than a smaller gear? So less ''trainer difficulty"? You think this translates to ERG mode , too?

[@cliveking7976]

Joop van Roy it doesn't translate to erg mode. That's completely set by restitance of workout or none if freeride. As someone else has commented here, harder the resistance the further up the block you go which generally slows the cadence as well. It's all about the feel :)

[@kidsafe]

Joop, reducing trainer difficulty allows you to use bigger gear ratios to output the same power/cadence. This has a few effects. As Clive mentioned, you can potentially have your chain in the middle of the cassette more often...it's more efficient, reduces wear on your drivetrain and it's quieter too. Also as I mentioned in a reply, it means the flywheel is spinning faster (has more momentum.) This allows your pedaling to be more free while spinning with high resistance at low flywheel speed forces you to pedal in a rounder style that exhausts smaller muscles like your calves and hamstrings.

[@pauldamian2988]

Every time it starts raining in zwift in one of your videos, I keep waiting for Von to run in with a squirt gun and start plastering you!!! ...immersion... nyuk! nyuk! nyuk!

[@DomenicPaolilli]

Great video. That was me with the KOM 😂

[@gplama]

The 1:30something? That’s Flying! 500-600w

[@DomenicPaolilli]

Yeah 1:39. Averaged about 560 watts up it. Love ur videos 👍

[@herobo123456]

Domenic Paolilli Averaged 560 watts lol how did u feel after that??

[@fiddleronthebike]

@@DomenicPaolilli 560 W for 1:39 - impressive!

[@philadams9254]

What's that in w/kg? Epic time.

[@petef15]

An interesting test would be to do the kom based on feel and cover up the power data, and see how fast you do it on each setting.

[@vlavrynovych]

Nice video. It helped me to understand how it works. Thanks.

[@dalis994]

At first, I thought that this setting was useless, but later on I found out that it is exremely helpful. I change it a lot depending on my inteded ride effort.

[@garrytwiss4584]

Cool vid Shane, always wondered if there was a difference. One similar lama lab test that would be interesting would be on pedal stroke analysis using the vectors (or other pedal power meters) testing how heart rate changes with differing pedal styles but generating the same watts. So standing vs sitting vs rounded stroke vs stomping. If you get what I mean? The objective to identify pedalling efficiency. 👍🏼

[@kidsafe]

It would identify pedaling efficiency, but only for Lama, and only at the wattages tested and at his current training load. :)

[@kenny5692]

I use a 23 tooth straight block on my drivo and lower the trainer difficulty to about 70 percent. This is to make it similar to a 32 cassette on steep climbs. The drivo is slow to change resistance so having a tighter ratio helps it along making gradient changes and make it less drastic on the drivo. Also this increases flywheel speed in climbing ranges. The drivo is more content to hold me back and not slip on steep sections at low cadence.

[@richardmathew1969]

Just tried the same test and I much prefer 0%. Its much easier to keep steady power and cadence. I used to think this was kind of unsporting until I heard one of the In The Pens podcast guys saying they always race with 0%. Sweet.

[@stevem2939]

Hi Richard ..... Totally agree. 0% flattens the hills but you still have to get watts up BUT at 0% your avatar will fly downhills with no pedal input......therefore 0% is not a flat road so also it does not turn your smart trainer into a dumb trainer. Look at the end of this vid where Shane does a U turn down the hill.........

[@ErcoArgante]

Nice video, thx! I fully agree that the total energy spent is independent of the trainer difficulty setting. However, in practice there are also transient effects playing a role. With trainer difficulty set at 100%, when I hit a steep section, I do not immediately change to a lighter gear but I keep pedaling at the same cadence and consequently increasing my power output for some seconds. In the same way, after finishing a steep section, I do change to a heavier gear, but there are always some seconds where my power output drops. So for me, with trainer difficulty set at 100%, I see more variation in my power output graph than with training difficulty set at 0%. This does have a negative effect on total performance. It's the reason that "normalized power" has been invented, providing a more realistic way of representing a rider's workload (so also performance) than average power. Of course, it's my own choice to do this "delayed gear shifting", but I could imagine many others do the same.

[@waynepatton718]

Hi Shane another great video.

[@dugasman]

Cadence changes ! you feel your legs in a different way, because your cadence increases when you slide the difficulty towards 0%. Also the range of available gears you can use on your bike decreases. So it's easier to spin out of the available gears you have on your bike. If you move the slider to 100% your cadence decreases because there is more resistance from the trainer. Also the range of available gears on your bike increases in this instance. So it's harder to spin out of the available gears you have on your bike. You still need to output same wattage to achieve same speed and time goals, but what varies is the cadence at which you ride.

[@maccathirtythree]

Great work Shane - hopefully this will clear it up for some people - #hells500

[@zoltardo]

Haha 218 it takes me like 10 minutes to get up that damn hill :-)

[@bendobson5348]

This is where zwift could do with a lap button.

[@atanasg]

+1. I was about to suggest "borrowing" the lap button from a head unit (by connecting it to the power meter in parallel) but looking the stats GPLama came within 2W b/w the two efforts so not a biggie in this case. Super impressive consistency, GPLama!

[@gustavorincon1640]

It's the same time because it's the same work, however, the effort is very different, much easier to hold x watts on 1 constant resistance that to respond to changes, effort will shift with gradients and cadence/gearing will follow, that means that different muscles and energy systems will be more or less used

[@Mg67890BFF]

Am I the only one who keeps it on 100% because I'd rather feel the changes in gradient more as its more immersive and challenging?

[@GetzenBassPlayer]

I agree. I think of the slider as a virtual cassette change.

[@alanthompson9240]

Have to say, as a slightly heavier guy (84.8 kg), I like 50%. For races I’ll put it slightly lower so I’m not as shocked by grade changes, basically 40%-ish.

[@derekdykstra9615]

Seems like you could call it the "spin---->mash" setting.

[@dylanxnangle]

Finally a way i can understand it!

[@SubitusNex]

So, you could almost simulate the resistance change while in "off" by going up a gear when the incline goes up, because then you need more power to maintain the cadence (getting that leg feel)

[@jasonmcmahon1285]

I struggled with a sort of pulsing of difficulty feeling when on long steep climbs like Alpe du Zwift - every two or three revolutions it would spin out a little and then go back to what felt harder. I reached out to the trainer manufacturer for help and they advised backing the trainer difficulty. They told me "The Trainer Difficulty setting doesn't actually make the ride/workout harder or easier. What it actually does is change the amplitude of the resistance changes." I backed it off and hey presto, smother feeling all the way to the top. Lots of people call anything but 100% cheating, but actually, by spinning out a little with the trainer set to 100%, I was actually gaining a moments respite each time, so really, for me 100% was cheating.

[@jimdennison]

Good vid! Yeah ‘Watts is Watts’ and Zwift bases it’s calculations on Watts (x weight). Be aware though that higher trainer resistance / higher gear at lower cadence (for same Watts) has a different physiological impact than lower resistance/lower gear. The body will fatigue quicker (Watts will drop) with higher resistance. Arguably 🙂

[@gplama]

How someone produces watts or responds to effort is a different topic.

[@liambarber9036]

We should get a Lama army Jersey on Zwift!

[@RixterNow]

I think the rain slowed you down on the second lap. If it were dry you’d have been 10 seconds faster. LOL

[@darinsteele7091]

When going downhill with the difficulty set easier the flywheel never backs off on your tire, so you don't get much of a break in the legs going down hill, in a real life scenario you're probably going to be taking your legs off the pedals sometimes especially in a draft, today I lowered the difficulty almost to zero for a race and pedaling the whole time really burnt the sugar up good for the whole 28 minutes. Setting it lower is ok for TT flat type of courses but for hilly/descents it's not the greatest. You just need to find the sweetspot for your gear ratio, I have a 9speed with a Tacx Vortex and it changes gradients too fast, so I like to keep it around 20%. Even at 50% the gradient changes aren't gradual.

[@huaiwei]

After so long, I finally understood why I never got to coast downhill like how others describe it. My difficulty is set to 0% and it is a consistent hard pedalling both up and downhill and I never knew it was due to this! :D

[@TheDomLouis]

Nice test. Would doing it in ERG mode , via a custom workout give a more accurate timing? Not necessarily for difficulty slider, but say for working out how many watts to push to do a climb in X minutes?

[@joopvanroy6599]

Lowering the setting essentially changes your gears on the bike. I live in flat country so my bike gearing isn't set up for 10%+ climbs. Lowering the setting to < 50% alleviates that issue without having to install a new drivetrain just for a virtual ride.

[@ORBEX]

Joop van Roy at least somebody gets it!!!

[@nicolacheccacci3769]

i've not problems...i got a long cage shimano 11-32 on my bike

[@groovymoon9386]

Yes.. but also makes for slower descents I have tried it..

[@groovymoon9386]

"Trainer Dificulty" is a misnomer.. "Grade Simulation" would be a better name for it... If you hit a 10% grade with it set at 50% Zwift will tell your trainer to simulate a 5% grade. etc...etc...

[@DaveInVegas]

I find if the resistance is too low, like below 50%, I spin out too easy going into sprints. I prefer about 75-80%. I also will change the setting based on the race if I'm looking for a result.

[@slippin_jimmy]

Does Zwift have a chart that shows how the percentage changes affect your relative gearing? For example, if the lowest gear on your cassette is 28, does lowering from 100% to 80% make that a virtual 30 or 32, or does 0% make it a virtual 42 cog? If I was going to lower the percentage, I would want to know what my new gearing is so I can relate it to outdoor riding.

[@tobleramone]

Why? Just ride and work it out as you go.

[@nezbian]

Shane's cadence up the hill was 79 rpm @ 100% and 86 rpm @ 0%. For me the trainer difficulty makes it easier on the knees at lower settings.

[@gplama]

Just to clarify - You're discussing 'the feels', not the in-game effect.

[@nezbian]

understood. my knees feel better :)

[@okreidieh]

@@nezbian Technically, 100% shifting to a lower gear could get your the same feeling as 0% at a higher gear ... The real change is the gear you need to put out a specific power at a specific cadence. So long as you get a gear with a high enough cadence, your knees won't feel bad regardless of whether you achieve this with a low gear high trainer difficulty or high gear low trainer difficulty. In a sense, the higher trainer difficulty just translates to more shifting.

[@craigthomasutube]

@@okreidieh Right! And more shifting on the Alpe, for example, can be more challenging as loss of power is inevitable going from 10% or higher to almost flat then back to 10at the switchbacks. I find my fatigue occurs at the switchbacks at 100%. Ven-top however, if I remember correctly doesn’t have the grade changes so I end up getting into a groove and stay with it till the end.

[@PeterMacca88]

I have found that on rides like the AHDR humpday ride I fare better in the after party on 80% trainer difficulty rather than the default of 50% because I can push harder into the resistance on the little rises. Even though the average power required is the same for both settings I think i produce power better when I need to generate torque into little power climbs rather than increase the cadence. I'm sure other people would have opposite experience.

[@isabelgarcia9429]

I feel the same. new to zwift but on flatter routes I always have the trainer to 100%, just feels right. I dont know if I could climb the longer, steeper climbs like this, but 5% to 8% is ok. I'll give it a whirl on a biggie, might change my mind.

[@isabelgarcia9429]

Don't know why it's posted in my wife's name. I,m Bob

[@divyagarh]

Would the trainer difficulty setting affect FTP test? I mean my Zwift difficulty setting is at max right now. I know it feels harder while riding, but while doing FTP test ERG mode is off, does it mean it will be much harder to reach your FTP goal or not?

[@nationsnumber1chump]

Training this winter, thinking about doing all my rides at 100%. Want to make sure I'm ready for the on off on off efforts

[@gnidaerd]

So, the 'feel' as you say is that you notice the change in grade as it appears to change on the screen? Instead of NO change in 'feel' as the grade changes? I ask as I did my first Zwift session today and wondered why I couldnt feel the transition into the climbs nor the easing as I rolled over the tops of hills. Was set to 50% as standard. Also seemed like I had too much road speed for a given gearing )e.g. I had 51kmh indicated when I was in 39 / 23 and 260W. Anyhoots, I will work it out. Next is to dump the iPad (as it wobbles with the bike) and get an Apple TV or Chrome cast??

[@barefeg]

It doesn't make a difference with a huge asterisk that supposes you'll be able to turn the cranks at a reasonable cadence. This is crucial in races where you want to keep your glycogen reserves as high as possible for the final

[@jarrodwright6082]

I’m still pretty new to Zwift. Just wondering about KOM’s with trainer difficulty settings?? I’ve just got a new Kickr 18 (love it! Your videos made the purchase way easier) and have noticed my climb times are a bit slower. (old trainer couldn’t control resistance) Does Zwift show you information on what riders were using when achieving KOM’s? What trainer and what difficulty setting etc?? Great channel GPlama

[@gplama]

Zwift just cares about w/kg (power/weight). So if you've switched to something with 'more correct' power reporting, then the times may be slower or faster. Zwift know what devices people are using (it's in the data channels) but only report 'power', so we don't see it as riders. I find ~80% to be a good balance of hill simulation. *Again, that 80% does not affect the in-game speed, only my feels in the legs.

[@einandrew]

Does a lower setting normalize to make flats a bit more "challenging" gearing-wise? Running into an issue where I can only generate good power on flats in my highest gears. The theory would say I can then drop the trainer difficulty setting and get more power in lower gears on flats and declines. Does that work out that way?

[@dakalla]

So with that slider to zero it would be like cycling on a non interactive smart trainer, like for example the Elite Turbo Muin. Is that right?

[@gplama]

Exactly

[@ZKelly22]

Can you only aero tuck on specific trainers or is it possible regardless of trainer? As long as it's the right percent grade and speed

[@sprintkick9793]

So I conducted a similar test today as I’m still somewhat skeptical. Been on Zwift for over two years and every single ride has been at 100% with flat Florida roads 53/39 & 11/28 gearing. The alp is a grind and best time is 69 minutes. My power would decrease as the climb progressed. Today I did it with the slider moved to about 75% to simulate the feel of an 11/32. I beat my time by 2 minutes and kept my power up almost until the end. This on the back of 25 laps of the volcano circuit the day before. So with less than fresh legs I still best my best time. I guess my hang up is if it feels easier in the legs I should be able to put more power down which increases my speed.

[@johnbowers5447]

Slower cadence recruits muscles differently, and you should be more efficient when not grinding. So a long climb should be easier, in that sense, on the easier trainer setting despite the fact that the same wattage will get you the same time up Alpe du Zwift no matter what setting you use.

[@titaniumben9923]

All that really proves is that doing 25 laps of the volcano gave you a nice little bump in fitness.

[@ChrisWorfolk]

Great video! What about descending? Sounds like a trainer difficulty of 0% could prevent you from spinning out, and therefore reach a wattage you couldn't normally reach in real life / at 100% difficulty.

[@gplama]

Yep.

[@atanasg]

"It should be a little bit easier to hold 350W through here." Yeah, lol, speak for yourself!!!

[@RossTheNinja]

atanasg I reckon I'd last about a minute at that power

[@atanasg]

Nice! According to my power curve my best is 45sec 😳

[@peebee1357]

Would like to see a down hill vid , when racing the higher % is great uphill but down hill is brutal , spin fest and loose ground

[@monetaryjack1705]

I leave it at 100% with a 50/34 and 11-32 (2x9 Sora set up).... If I tackle the Stelvio or Ventoux on Wahoo RGT I'll consider lowering TD to 75% which is to take into consideration that if I ever did these mountains in reality I'd probably swap out for an 11/36 or even 11/40 cassette.... I don't mind working the gears on a hilly course- keeps you focussed on the view ahead and the profile, and probably ensures a more fair and even wear on the cassette rather than sticking to just a few gears (or worse in ERG, one gear....)

[@bogingerbrewing2426]

how do you change them

[@mr.motiv8]

Great video! But an unrelated question, would you mind helping me with your video set up to get you greenscreened and displaying your zwift within the same session? Thanks.

[@gplama]

The basics of the setup is covered here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mIupmpl7pNeKpLs

[@authorjohnwquinn]

Question - Having that slider set at 0% affected the Kickr Climb, right? It didn't go up and down as much?

[@gplama]

Correct. See my video here on this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bXK9kJ1mfal3m7M

[@andyh8239]

I've noticed your RPM v.s. Speed drift apart even though you are staying in the same gear. Do any of the trainers lock the speed to rpm tighter?

[@Glutzie]

that would be a flat - if trying to get a power target and the grade changes you have to spin faster or slow to adapt

[@dewidavies7995]

Thanks 😊

[@ccdbcvtrider1]

lowering the difficulty pretty much makes you increase your RPM's. you have to produce the same wattage, so lowering the difficulty means upping the RPM's. your example here proved that too...you were doing 73RPMs on the first go, then 86 on the second go at the same location of the climb and producing the same wattage and virtual speed.

[@tsgarage2382]

yup he was lower 70s more at 100% and higher 80,s with 0%

[@Beejayxx882]

But very different gear guys..

[@adampartridge7625]

I’m still a little confused ... I get the watts need to be the same but does the higher difficulty level mean that it’s harder on your legs? I guess that’s when you work through the gears right to make it easier? do you have a general preferred setting that’s best of both worlds? ... or a preferred setting for training vs racing vs a more chilled ride?

[@Ocky3533]

Hey Shane, enjoy the channel. Just got a Kickr 18 and CLIMB and my first ride on Zwift was fun, yet I found myself in a range of gears that I normally wouldn't expect. I was spending A LOT of time in 52/13-17 whereas I normally wouldn't be able to handle it. In theory, if I increase the difficulty slider in Zwift this would effectively put me back into a more RL range of gears, correct? I didn't touch my small chainring on my first ride in London. I also performed a spindown after 10 minutes of riding as recommended. Thanks!

[@gplama]

The slider at 100% (all the way to the right) should give you the 'most realistic' experience with gradient simulation, and gearing you'll have to dive through.

[@bencopsey]

Would be good to explain the reverse impact on descents and how racers use lower settings so the don’t get so much free wheel effect and can generate more watts downhill

[@alextasch8114]

Actually I am pretty sure you generate more watts downhill with 100% difficulty, and able to travel faster.

[@garylugg9860]

@@alextasch8114 it does , downhill you wont spin out so you can hold great raw watts which in zwift means great spped. raw wattage = greater speed

[@MickM]

Thanks for clarifying that the setting makes no difference in game but how did the effort feel to the meat motor? How were the two runs different to you?

[@gplama]

Both just as taxing.

[@robertasmtb]

Great💪

[@GraydonPatterson]

I equate the Zwift trainer difficulty settings as 'gears'. At 100%, I'm riding bike with a 53/39 chainring and 11-25 cogs, versus a 52/36 chainrings & 11-32 cogs at 50%. Its really only noticeable on climbs (and descents)

[@patrickbureau6717]

question: at around 0.28 in the video, we can see a choice for routes. Is that gone now in ZWIFT ? I dont see this anymore. I only see the default and I have to use the Zwift companion app to select the other directions to see where it would lead me

[@pajakgdynia]

It is quite old video, but the subject is still hot. Could you provide average power and normalized power from both tries? I don't understand understand why did you need to change the cadence with difficulty=0, when you hit 350. Is there any difference in behaviour with Neo? (where the trainer bahaves as in ERG mode)

[@ditannyc]

Hi Shane. I am 55 years of age (5' 8" and 150lbs) and at this late stage of my life I am enjoying road cycling. I have almost 52 years of martial arts in me, a ton of wear and tear and surgeries on my knees. Regardless I dream of hitting a steady 300w and currently on 13 rides on Zwift I average only 130W. Yesterday I rode my first race 12.5 miles with 700+ climb. At start of race 37 guys shot like rockets in 6 seconds vanished from my sight. I took off with another guy who took off with me and at the end he was 5 minutes ahead of me. I finished in 39th place with 52 people behind me. My difficulty level was set to 75% from the standard 50%. In the Zwift videos I heard the higher you place the bar the more realistic the climbs will me. I cannot believe I have no legs left after so much martial art dedication and I still hope to do positively good as I always set sights on realism at my age but also prove to myself I am not average. Thank you for reading

[@dancudds]

I go 100% for races. Climbs are where the attacks generally happen and you want the trainer to give you that feedback rather than having to shift gears to put out more power. If you ride at 0% diff and don't shift on the grades the pack will fly right past you.

[@MishMash95]

5:09 Got eeem!

[@Koobca.]

My understanding is that trainer difficulty can adjust how you produce those watts ( torque x cadence). 100% you need more torque and less cadence (check video, watts and speed are the same but the mean rpm are like 70-80 on 100% and 80-90 on 0%), at 0% you need more cadence. Time, speed and wattage will be the same. This can affect your gearing but that is how I understand it. Even his heart rate was aprox. the same. I started using Zwift (and a trainer) like 2 weeks/1month, I ride at the default 50%, being a heavy rider I use more power on the legs rather than rpm. I notice that my gears always run out, I tend to use the heavier gears (big ring in the front, smallers at the back). I will try to adjust the trainer difficulty so I can take more advantage of my gears Correct me if I’m wrong, I’m new to this and only searched this now. If my trainer only makes 6% incline, am I riding on a discount everytime Zwift goes above 6%?

[@gplama]

What this shows is that watts are watts when it comes to in-game speed. When it comes to how you as a rider produce those watts, that's very subjective. Some riders are more efficient at lower RPM, some at higher RPM. If you're on a trainer that can only reach 6% simulation, that's all the physical resistance you'll feel. In game your avatar is subjected to the gradients as shown on screen and will be slower at 12% than 6% at the same power.

[@stevem2939]

Hi Shane Out of curiosity I reduced my trainer diff from 100% to 0% and did a test ride on Watopia Hilly Route. Sure enough after hitting the first climb (which comes along quite quickly) I felt no resistance change and upped my gears and cadence to maintain watts, which I found alot easier on the legs !!!! At the top I did a U turn and came back down,...expecting to keep pedaling as the downhill should still be 0%. Instead my avatar SPED UP to over 50 kph with hardly any input from me !!! My avatar even adopted a tuck position !!! This must count as a massive advantage for anyone in a race @ 0% trainer diff......... or even users with dumb trainers and power meters. Have you experienced the same ?? Am I missing something ?? I have a Tacx Neo.........Cheers Steve

[@micbanand]

as I see it. if you have a 12/25 casette you set it low. if you have a 11/32 you set it high. so it simulate a low medium or high gear :)

[@szabiakanich]

Still not 100% sure I understand. Let me know if I got this right. At 100% you would need to use a gear just like you would in real life climbing at 7% to produce 350 watts. At 0% you could use whatever gear, even 50x11 and spin it up to produce the 350 watts.

[@Voss27]

That's right.

[@iancruz2066]

At 0%, you actually made the smart trainer a dumb trainer

[@adammillsindustries.]

Ian Cruz Yes. The guys on dumb trainers fly away from you down the hills. It’s a necessary evil to make Zwift appealing to the masses.

[@Dennis4523]

Adam Mills hey fuck you , my dumb trainer and wahoo sensors only cost me 100$ and they sure as hell work well

[@benkretz]

@@Dennis4523 That escalated quickly... I think the main point that we all must remember is that the game interprets wattage. Wattage, no matter how expensive the trainer setup is, is consistent and that is what makes it a great tool for all levels of cyclists to train at. I think Adam's complaint is that the program makes it impossible for him to produce 350 watts on a 10% downhill grade, but this is exactly the same problem as real life it is just that everyone is on the same road. (I have a dumb setup too) They get an incredibly realistic feel for the ride and their drafting experience is way better than ours. Hell, I would give up the 30 second descent in every ride for the other hour to be more realistic and have the same feel as a group ride if I would shell out the money.

[@lehtjug]

I have ride 100% trainer level all the time. I want to keep realism level perfect as possible. It's part of a cycling to feel pain in a legs. Gives a pleasure ;).

[@kidsafe]

Juha Lehtinen While I do enjoy some immersion, 100% grade simulation of a virtual road is not one of my requirements. I want some feel in races and fast group rides so I can react on ramps, escalators, etc. but that’s about it. I can get my 100% realism outside.

[@lehtjug]

yoog it's true that there is a good reasons to change difficulty settings including those you mentioned. One good reason is tyre slippage issues with some wheel on trainers. Lower the settings will help prevent that problem.

[@petedannatt]

It's a lot easier on a lower trainer difficulty for those of us who can only manage half that power output and would otherwise run out of gears! Try the test with a CAT D rider who might have yo grind away at 50 to 60rpm. Would they end up slower yhsn the guy on a lower trainer difficulty who can maintain 85rpm? PS, as many have said you are a legend. I can maintain 350w for just about 1 minute after which there is no way I would be talking!

[@bradleyjsmithod]

Sorry if this was addressed earlier, but have you tried using Instant instead of 3 sec average for power display? I find the feedback is better for maintaining a given power during intervals which might seem counterintuitive, but the smoothing creates a lag that I end up chasing more. The refresh rate on the display seems the same, just more accurate.

[@gplama]

This does not have any impact on the in-game speed or pacing. 3s average is simply a visual change to what's shown on screen. Workout mode in Zwift will only show 1s average at this point. It ignores the setting.

[@neil_down_south]

So if the wattage and time stayed the same, but trainer feel changed, does that mean cadence also changed?

[@bn_ln]

Only if the same gear was used. A mechanical analogy would be riding up with a T39 chainring vs a T34 chainring

[@MrBongo1111]

The gear changes so the cadence changes . One side benefits a high cadence the other a low cadence . It effectively gives you a broader range of gears .

[@gplama]

Yep. It gives the ability to use more gears ... but the game doesn’t care. It’s all watts (and a few other things) that contribute to your in-game speed.

[@Pulinski]

So the question for me as a heavier rider with a FTP lower than 200 is; a) Do I ride at min on the slider and spin to work cardio only? or b) Have the slider on max and increase my tolerance for grinding gears at low cadences? My knees often suffer at low cadences when climbing outside. I am already running a 50/34 with 11-32. Will training the knees work or just result in injury?

[@gplama]

That's a tricky one. Best left for a qualified physio / coach who can evaluate you / your riding / goals etc.

[@IGotsBadFeeling]

I think the lower your FTP is the lower the slider should be. I'm not sure if you can build a tolerance for grinding. What you do get is knee issues. And that is something you don't want for sure. Just spin to win I'd say. And once your ftp gets better you can increase the slider so you can hold higher watts at a reasonable cadence.

[@michaelwilkens6865]

Question: Is the "Trainer Difficulty" setting the same as the "Incline" setting in the Zwift Companion App?? Are they linked? Meaning if you change one, does it change the other? Or are they two different settings that do something different? If so, how are they different? Thanks for any responses!

[@gplama]

No. Incline I believe is ‘level mode’ within a workout which turns your trainer into a resistance unit with 10(?) levels of resistance. Trainers usually have SIM, ERG, and Level modes.

[@DrBunnee]

Is it okay to have a really high cadence when pushing high watts? I usually get to above 100 cadence and don't get too tired when pushing over 220 watts, I find that i can old the watts for longer with higher cadences

[@gplama]

Sure, if that works for you.

[@JBSpine007]

It seemed that you had a higher average wattage at 100% than at 0% and your cadence was higher in the second run. Did you go back and look at what you average watts were for each climb?

[@MateusMartinss]

I notice that your cadence was high in the second lap, is it because on the easy difficulty the trainer offers less resistance and you can spin more? or it was just an easy gear? Usually I go just a bit easy then the 50% mark, I prefer it because it looks like it's a bit easy to stay on top of the gears

[@gplama]

Yes. But cadence has no influence on in-game speed.

[@acostaml1008]

Hi Shane, what if you set the trainer difficulty to 0 and join a zwift race or trying to set a PR for segment. would that be easier (for longer ride duration)?

[@gplama]

It might be subjectively easier... but that's to do with how I produce the power. The purpose of this video was to show Zwift doesn't care what the slider is set to. You still have to produce the power for the same times.

[@LeeCassidy]

I've seen a video that states that adjusting the difficulty slider down from 100% is just like adding more teeth to your cassette (so it's just like virtually swapping out your cassette). Seems to be the easiest way to think about it.

[@gplama]

That's an easy way to think about it, yes. Technically what's happening is a little different.

[@jsteinig]

Which level of the trainer difficultly does the percent grade match reality? For example if it were 8% on game, what “difficulty” would I have to set so that trainer is actually 8% as if I were outside?

[@gplama]

More on this soon.

[@midhc5072]

Interesting. What effect would the trainer slide have on a non ERG mode trainer if any? Would it for instance, calculate the riders profile and slow the virtual wheel speed if set to 100%? Asking as my 5yr old daughter is hooked using it for her monthly Race at your own pace medal. She's using a 20" wheel and pedalling like merry to achieve her 25 mile goals each month particularly when the road goes up on Zwift.

[@gplama]

There is no slider for non smart trainers.

[@tunafishjoe]

I've seen some Zwift videos where the gradient changes in decimals... So instead of jumping from 1% to 2%, it will go from 1.1% to 1.2% and upward. What trainers off this level of precision? Is this an older feature? Thank you!

[@gplama]

Likely an interface change from Zwift. I'm not sure how granular the gradient specification is within the FE-C and FMTS profiles. I'll look into this.

[@tunafishjoe]

Shane Miller - GPLama Great! Thank you!

[@simonjones5320]

To improve outdoor climbing on the trainer what is the best approach to take with the slider? 100%?

[@gplama]

Train for the specific demands of the climb you want to do better on outside.

[@GaragemdoCaio]

I always go with the following. If you have 11+ gears I set to 100%. Anything less I proportionally (roughly) decrease it. No gears I would set to zero or close to it.

[@glenngundermann2433]

Does it affect going downhill as well? My 8-speed chain doesn't work great with the 10 or 11-speed cassettes in my studio and I can't use the bottom half of the cassette, I.e. 11-16.

[@gplama]

Downhill explained here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oGibdYKIerGcirs

[@robbieryan4356]

Hi Shane, thank you for all your video's firstly. Secondly, i want to start 'vEveresting' but in my eyes if i don't have it on 100% then i'm cheating? However i only have a 11/25 cassette with my short derailleur- so forgetting times to ascend surely vEveresting is lot easier on lower trainer difficulty than 100%? Apologies to you/ all if already answered but it's just not sticking in my dumb head for some reason. Thanks in advance :)

[@gplama]

You’ll have to follow the vEveresting rules as published on their site

[@jenniferfry7153]

I'm using a wahoo kikr V5. I don't seem to have the option to adjust in my zwift setting. Am I missing something? Is this not an option with this trainer?

[@davidstevens7346]

If it's raining on Zwift, does that count as Rule IX?

[@reynaldogarcia3799]

You didn't say which you liked more. Any preference?

[@gplama]

Riding outside is always better :)

[@Psyk078]

I think he said around 75% in another video?

[@peterlethbridge7859]

Hi Shane, I could be wrong but when the trainer difficulty is set to 50%, I only get 50% of the climb grade on the Kickr Bike. Is that what you are seeing? Or is this just a lag in the smoothing effect?

[@gplama]

Yes. By design. More options/integration within Zwift would be nice with these new Smart Bikes.