Shawn Cee and Anthony Fantano DISAGREE??

In this clip, Fantano and Shawn Cee discuss the normality of Long Albums stacked with unnecessary songs.
Unfortunately NOT an April Fools joke...
Check the full interview with Shawn Cee HERE: • Talking to Shawn Cee
===================================
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Instagram: / afantano
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video editing and thumbnail done by emahn

[@benbrian9884]

How DARE they have a respectful discussion!!!!!

[@lupomena]

This would never happen on twitter

[@thecameraman6275]

IMPOSSIBLE.

[@danielmcmillian5336]

Such B.S.

[@Itachi_Uchiha___]

I know right!? They should ripping each other’s throats out over this shit!

[@noahstanfield6745]

yes, Shawn saying "Nope" in response to a lot of melons points is very respectful.

[@joshuawashington758]

Love Shawn's face when he tries to get Fantano to call Future a legend.

[@tayw4090]

thug is a legend. Future not so much

[@astronxxt]

@@tayw4090 lol, thug not on future’s level in terms of legend status. you may think he’s better but he’s not touching future

[@mistathugdesolation]

go listen to turn on the lights by future, shit came out in 2012. listen to anything before that song came out and name one song that sounds like that besides what chief keef was doing. future is a legend and also one of the most influential rappers of all time

[@joshuawashington758]

@@tayw4090 Dawg I love Thugger, but he's not touching Future yet. Not even close, not even by a longshot.

[@AntiSoma_SinAnestesia]

Future is a shitty person

[@bearlyhardley]

I definitely started listening to music the way Anthony is describing, just cherry picking my favorite songs and creating a medley playlist. I think streaming services definitely motivate that with a “liked songs” system. But, as soon as I started watching the melon, I realized I was missing out on a lot of the experience of a whole album. And once I started listening that way, I could actually form more cohesive opinions on artists I like and dislike, mainly because I feel I gained a more holistic perspective on the artist. It’s like actually sitting down to watch a movie from beginning to end instead of just your favorite clips. So yeah, the album might be dead but I really hope artists like BROCKHAMPTON (rip) can keep coming up with great concepts for album experiences.

[@moze_-]

I don't feel it's a requirement to have to to listen to music exclusive in an album format. For someone who's job it is (like melon) then yeah, it makes sense. If you're a dude who likes music, especially across multiple genres like myself, it feels like being tied down. I recommend listening to the whole of an album maybe two or three times. Get the first listen in, feel it out a bit, then go in the next two deciding which songs are good and which ones aren't. Out of that, you've pulled your medley. I'm not going to listen to all of Billy Talent II just to listen to Fallen Leaves (although I end up listening to 75% of it)

[@bearlyhardley]

@@moze_- well in the process you’ve laid out, you still listen to the whole album at least once, which is what I literally never did as a kid lol

[@imsmokey4331]

@@moze_- Yeah i listen to an album multiple times n form my opinion on it. If i only like a few songs bad album but imma keep those two songs, and if i like a handful or all the songs great album and i end up going back to the album to pick which song i wanna play for the day, sometimes ill come back to listen to the whole thing if it has no skips n just play it throughout the day. But listening to an entire album every time can get boring and exhausting even if it is that great

[@moze_-]

@@bearlyhardley I'd say I did it more as a kid. I had to buy either cd's up until i was like 9 or 10 y/o, or whole albums on iTunes (cause it was cheaper than buying songs). Now you have KZbin and Spotify and are able to look up any type of music from any genre or time period, or made up time periods. Oh, and all that's now available everywhere you go in the computer you carry in your pocket. Right at your finger tips, 24/7. I know, I sound like a boomer, but I'm only 23, I was just kinda poor as a kid so I was like, 4 years behind all the good tech until I could buy my own shit.

[@moze_-]

@@imsmokey4331 Can agree. It's also great to have the ability to also choose listening to whole albums or songs. Sometimes I get in a mood and it requires like a nostalgia album binge of certain bands for a day.

[@VertigoOfficial]

I hope that the album format doesn't die. Streaming any song you want at any moment is fine, but most of the time it ends up with mashing bunch of favorite high energy songs with no room to breathe. Filler songs although hated are necessary. They really help appreciate the highlights, especially when artist actually sits down and thinks about tracklist for more than 2 minutes.

[@TheNadroj10]

True, I like your perspective

[@randomusername1735]

I don't agree with calling them filler songs. They're lower energy songs, that does not mean their quality has to be lesser I agree about the albums though. I used to use playlists but now all I do is listen to albums because of the specific vibe that the artist has crafted and I can choose one perfectly for the mood

[@yungrawi]

@@randomusername1735 well it’s just that the quality often IS lesser

[@kyuube9609]

disagree heavily thats like lets say travis scotts "rodeo" had 5 filler tracks added to the 14 original tracks the album would lose how good it is to me because instead of going 12-13/14 he goes 12-13/19 it would lose how AMAZING the consistency there is on the record

[@stopwaitingfam]

nah there does not need to be filler tracks that's just what people have been led to believe due to what's mainstream. Listen to: Honor Killed the Samurai Atrocity Exhibition B4DA$$ I'm sure I can think of more but every song on these albums is essential to it

[@KiIIua_]

Another reason why I love doing full album listens: songs that have a seamless transition into another song. When I listened to Abbey Road, no one ever told me it had a 3 song epic medley and it blew me away. Or when Mellon Collie And The Infinite Sadness has the last and the first song create a perfect loop that seems to bring you back in time 2 hours before you went on that crazy ride. Little things like that are what make me love connecting with artists. Had I cherry picked songs and lazily skimmed through the album, I would have missed something so awesome. A lot of artists still care about the album experience they deliver to their audience and as listeners I feel like we should not take it for granted (even if the length appears to be overwhelming)

[@bigkoby]

8 song epic medley you mean😈

[@outerspacegaragesale5410]

More than a 3 song medley, but yes, Golden Slumbers -> Carry That Weight -> The End is amazingly amazing

[@KiIIua_]

@@bigkoby You're right lol

[@strahljd]

Pink Floyd's The Wall also create a loop with the first and last song. "Is this where we came in?"

[@reginaldgrey8613]

king gizzard song transitions are so flawless

[@aidanmcpavian5638]

I don't think the album format, or whatever the core essence of the album format is, will die. Because artists (as in actual artists) love that method of communication too much. People like kendrick, Tyler, saba etc will always want to communicate a bigger story / concept than can be told in one song. Hence why I think the album format will continue, just maybe not in the mainstream.

[@cherrypieconsumer4982]

Yea y someone like pump makes albums is beyond me. It's just not for everyone

[@hazellnut3005]

The final battle of music reviews

[@passadelirious4947]

Fought while listening to "Way 2 Sexy"

[@mister-pinkman]

I listen to a whole album front to back a few times, then I pick my favorites and put them in a playlist. That way I get the whole album experience, but don’t have to go through the whole album again if I don’t like a few songs. After I’ve experienced the album I just go with what I’m in the mood for. But if I love the whole album, then I’ll go back for another front to back listen.

[@justinschwender8518]

same here, i don’t necessarily agree with the argument that it’s a bad thing that people are trending towards listening in playlists rather than strictly the album in order especially after the first couple listens.

[@tylersquanto8938]

Same. This definitely requires more time, patience, and active listening though. I’m sure most people don’t care enough to put that much effort into listening to a record anymore though.

[@sknight2810]

I used to do that but im lazy asf to do so now, i’d rather either: remove the songs i dont like instead of making a playlist (idk if u can do that on Spotify but if u add the song in to the library in apple music, u can remove them) OR stop listening to the album altgt if it’s just a lil more than mid with a few skip bc i dont got time to skip like this

[@annechrystelleetemengono1858]

Exactly

[@maverickREAL]

I feel like the best solution is to release a pack of stuff that was scrapped from the album as a separate project later on and encourage people to mix and match, essentially making their own version that they consider the best. It makes listening to albums a more interactive experience where there's no real right answer so it encourages you to critically evaluate all the tracks instead of just making a blanket statement off a couple.

[@roxkstarr]

That’s what chief keef did he took songs that were on is album or singles that people loved and make mixtapes from it so people can just listen to those certain songs

[@josephflynn3886]

Untitled unmastered being a great example of scrapped material being released later

[@jd2981]

Sort of like the whole side b thing?

[@shiningnightmare5616]

@@jd2981 yes, like what Carly Rae Jepsen did (which actually resulted in more positive reception for both sides)

[@jd2981]

@@shiningnightmare5616 Yeah, that's actually a pretty good idea. I guess we need to try to push for this somehow as music listeners

[@dumper2003]

I've personally always been torn on this debate. On one hand I love it when artists give their listeners a perfectly concise album that flows from one track to the next beautifully with little to no filler. Like Brockhampton albums, Kanye's run in 2018, Igor, Yeezus, etc. But while I love when artists do that, I can't help but think about all the tracks that were cut and scrapped and how I could have actually loved a lot of those songs. So it's this weird push and pull between giving the fans all of the music vs giving the fans what you consider to be the best, but what you consider to be the best might not have been what the fans would have preferred if those scrapped songs had dropped.

[@connoryup574]

There needs to be a balance. You don’t want it to be too short, cause you might disappoint fans, but you can’t make it too long, as you might make fan disinterested. Like Shawn said, I think 45 minutes, 10-13 songs is a good middle spot. If a record is past an hour, I think you have to have the good majority of those songs be good-to-great, and if there’s any songs that aren’t at the same quality as the rest of the album, and don’t add anything , they should be removed, and if you want to, release later down the line as single or on a deluxe. Typically, these artists making 90 minute records(at least mainstream artists) are doing it to maximize streams, and a lot of the album is filler. I think if Drake cut his most recent albums in half and left the best stuff there, his albums would have a lot more replay value, at least it my eyes. Same with Migos, they’d actually probably be in a better place now career wise if they had shortened Culture 2 and 3.

[@nextlevel3884]

@@connoryup574 I have to agree with you with what you said about Drake and Migos cause if Scorpion,CLB,Culture 2 and 3 was cut down to 13-15 tracks,they wouldn’t have been as divisive as They are.

[@dionysianapollomarx]

They should have a miscellaneous category for the stuff that didn't make the cut for a concept album. Easy reason. I want quality, and I don't want to miss out on the stuff that didn't make the cut but could've. Best of both worlds in my opinion. Maybe the EP format is how it is done, but I don't know, maybe my music consumption categories is messed up in the moment.

[@memphiskash]

the solution is for artists to simply make better music then they won’t have to worry about anything

[@joarborneland1708]

What the fans might have wanted dosent matter, the artist decides how the album is going to be based on their vision

[@julianvollan1405]

The reason I love listening to full albums is the experience an album can give me. Listening to albums like TPAB, GKMC, Blond or Some Rap Songs makes all the songs in the album better, because they have a reason to be on there. Sadly most people listen to the easiest songs to listen to, so the best songs doesn`t get the praise they deserve in the mainstream. Just look at the individual streams on Kendrick`s albums.

[@samaraisnt]

great point; the best song is often not the mainstream chart topper, esp with albums.

[@jesuspernia8031]

I swear GKMC felt like a whole movie I was watching without even being as long as a feature film. Amazing project

[@BIGAMBERFAN]

100% agree. piñata by freddie gibbs is one of my favorite albums ever. but when i want to go back and just put a particular track on, it hits and it’s good, but it doesn’t hit the same. the sequencing on that album is excellent, every single track just hits harder in the context of the full album

[@Demonace34]

I searched for GKMC in the comments because that is the one album I've listened to front to back over 100 times and the phone calls and how it is pieced together makes it an entire experience. With cutting songs, it seems we would only get boiled down singles.

[@acaptainnachoz2111]

@@jesuspernia8031 fr

[@muhammad2150]

“who cares about the best track i’m way too sexy” 😭😭

[@angelusgnz5784]

Shawn’s music cred went 📉 after that

[@Andtron]

Lmao

[@stellar1252]

@@angelusgnz5784 ? He literally clarified next sentence that he doesn't really like it.

[@dynomar11]

3:00 totally agree. I haven't made a playlists in years. I just listen to albums

[@STATFANs]

me neither. I only have 1 single playlist where i put every song i like there. have about a thousand now

[@SagerWorld]

@@STATFANs thought I was the only one

[@fanetooo]

@@STATFANs weird

[@mister-pinkman]

See, I make a playlist every 2 years or so and put either entire albums in there (if I like the whole thing) or put only the songs I like off the album in there. I usually only listen to the album front to back once or twice, and then I go back to the songs I prefer the most.

[@fisheatsyourhead]

I use albums for new music and play lists for stuff I know, sometimes you don't have time to listen to an album so you just play a playlist on shuffle

[@DrManhattanLoL]

Some albums can definitely justify the length TPaB was 80 minutes iirc Random Access Memories was like 70 minutes College dropout 73 minutes But you really have to give me an album with a truly next level experience for me to be that Invested for over 70 minutes of listening. 45-50 is usually a nice spot

[@gabrieletraini3849]

Tpab is 80 minutes???? Every time I listen to it I swear it doesn’t feel that long. I guess that just means it’s truly a goat album

[@samt3412]

@@gabrieletraini3849 Mortal Man really extends out the runtime

[@krubyte497]

@@samt3412 Yeah mortal man takes about an 8th of the album with 16 songs on the album.

[@manuelc3423]

Exactly this, why would I want to listen to some mid mainstream pop rap record that's like an hour long... They don't even realize that their records would get more positive reviews if they focused on the bangers and left out the generic and forgettable tracks. I'm starting to think that maybe they do it to give an impression of dedication and artistry, like they're saying "hey look, we made a record that's an hour long! We really put a lot of work into it, and you won't get the full experience unless you listen to the entire album"

[@HertoftheCity]

@@manuelc3423 they do it because more songs = more streams = more money made

[@rsusa19]

I always listen to an entire album front to back a few times before I decide to pick out tracks that I love and put them on my "everyday casual listen" playlist. If I have free time, and if I really dig an album, I'll occasionally spend the time to listen to it front to back again. It really depends on the artist and how much I've enjoyed the flow of an album listening to it in order from start to finish.

[@biglad4395]

They should drop a collab album

[@Wowisawow]

the r&b album from shawn cee with fantano on bass

[@MADD-MANX]

Call it: THE NO LEGS

[@michaelwatkins9479]

I agree with both, Shawn just argued his point a little better. Neither one is “wrong”. It honestly just depends on the artist. If the artist generally puts the art first, I have no problem listening to the entire project, no matter the length. It’s when artist pump out mediocre project with 18 tracks that I pick and choose. I can definitely see Shawn’s frustration. Imagine having to ACTUALLY listen to a lot of these shitty projects. Like… you couldn’t pay me enough to listen to a duluxe album from future lmao

[@joaquin5929]

@@untilco future 90 minutes is pretty bad bro

[@samaraisnt]

disagree tbh, he was just emphatic

[@tyler_da_wiz]

Agreed. It's like how I'd listen to a hour long Pink Floyd record over a hour long the Chats records. It depends on what musically is happening and what they are deciding to do with that hour (sound textures, little acted bits between songs, preludes, etc)

[@dominicbooth6719]

Future been great bro

[@mj3673]

Shawn Lee reviews albums, maybe that's why his perspective is the way it is, but most ppl want more music then less from an artist to choose from, and most ppl like Anthony said don't listen to the entire album, they just pick the ones they like out the batch.. So for a 17 track album, most ppl might like 9 or 10 songs if the album is really good, but most albums might have 4 to 6 good songs realistically..so most the album isn't being fully played

[@trban8r]

I agree with Shawn, there’s absolutely no reason these albums need to be this long. I definitely don’t think they know for sure which songs will be chart toppers, but I do think they have a pretty good idea of what will be popular and what is filler. Hell, even on a first listen, a lot of people can probably guess with around 70% accuracy what songs in an album will be hot. Obviously there will anomalies and I also don’t think they need to go nuclear and go as short as something like ye, but for sure all of these long albums have songs that are very obviously a cut below the rest and could easily be trimmed off.

[@brando8888888888]

A lot of it is due to the streaming era now to boost their numbers I think. Even if people don’t listen to them often initially they’ll probably listen to most of if not all the tracks on the album and they know that.

[@thomasnelson5758]

On that second point, even artists themselves can barely tell what songs in an album will be hot. I love citing the example of Kanye's Graduation, where apparently when Kanye played it to Jay Z (president of the label), Jay pointed out 'Drunk and Hot Girls' as 'THE stadium anthem, the one people will be singing for years to come', and Kanye himself said about Stronger that 'it pales in comparison to the original (Daft Punk song), and won't hold up years from now'. Lmao So I kind of disagree with the notion of people can guess what songs will be hot. No one really knows what has staying power and what doesn't. Even on MBDTF and Donda, in the moment, All of the Lights and Hurricane were considered the hot memorable songs. But with time you see more emphasis on Runaway and Come to Life.

[@ninjaboy191]

its jus fucking funny how everyone discounts Ye because it was too short and now donda is too long. Ye just cant ever make haters happy becuz face it, haters dont WANT to be happy.

[@trban8r]

@@ninjaboy191 I like ye, I just don’t think its length should be the norm

[@trban8r]

@@thomasnelson5758 I think the difference is that you’re talking about albums with around 14 songs, where at that point the majority of songs should be quality and yeah, it is tougher to determine what will stay relevant. When we’re going to Donda or CLB number of tracks, I think it becomes way clearer what can go. I’m not saying they only need to keep songs that they think will chart, but that they should keep albums in that 14ish song range, where you can include songs that you’re not super sure about but still think are good.

[@sassytabasco]

Nails' "Unsilent Death" is 13 minutes, Swans' "The Seer" is 2 hours. Kids See Ghosts S/T is like 24 minutes, Death Grips "Powers That B" An hour twenty. But they're all BRILLIANT. The lack of storage limitations for audio have really pushed the album away from say, vinyl limitations. ie.), It has to be short enough to fit, but the customer needs to feel like they got their money's worth, so it has to be at least so long. Also, compared relatively to Hollywood cinema, there's really no "adult movies are 2 hours, kids movies are an hour thirty" standard that albums are required to meet. To me, this will always be the greatest tool if the album as a format; it's really obvious when an album is padded with filler, and it's also really obvious when the album needed to be something more than it is. That's because the freedom from time constraints let's the music speak for itself. If I see a hour-plus album, Im personally saying to myself, "okay, we'll see". But if it's paced well, I'll forget I ever thought that shit in the first place. The best albums to me, feel just like turning the last page on a good book, or watching the credits roll on the big screen. This sense of fulfillment and completion. It's obvious that this isn't what Shawn is talking about when he talks about too-long albums. I think he just engages with albums differently than Melon, but that's fine. I think I engage with albums more like Fantano than Shawn, though. If something wants my attention for fuckin' FIVE HOURS, fine! Maybe I'll check it out. But it better be good. But man, in the end, if it actually is THAT GOOD, I'd be singing its praises like anything else.

[@keymstr3110]

dude we dont care

[@sassytabasco]

@@keymstr3110 You cared enough to reply, anyways

[@infectedanimal9830]

@@keymstr3110 I care, I found it a interesting take makes me consider listening to a full album I never would of sometime

[@TAL1SMAN6]

tbf the powers that b is two albums, n’s on the moon and jenny death

[@sassytabasco]

@@TAL1SMAN6 Yeah I guess it's a strange example. I do kind of think of some nice young black friends on Mars as different from Jenny death because of the release dates

[@CypressDahlia]

I'm with Melon on this one. Yeah, albums are bloated, but I just pick the songs I like and I can usually tell if I don't like a song if I listen to the instrumental, the vibe, a little bit of the verse and the hook. So like 20 seconds. While Shawn is right about the time thing, he is an album listener/reviewer so maybe it's his job that's making him weary of these long albums? Cuz he's kinda obligated to listen to them. I just sift thru for my favorites and having a lot of options is nice.

[@samaraisnt]

yeah I feel anthony was thinking more of the actual listener & how they experience albums, while shawn was just *personally* annoyed cus he listens to so many albums lol.

[@ViolentMLG]

One thing that people fail to mention today is the insane versatility of all modern artist, their need to 'do it all'. I LOVE long albums, because it means I can hear 6-8+ songs of a particular artist I want to listen to, and possibly more, as opposed to a 10 song album where I only hear 3 tracks that fit what I want to hear from that artist. This isn't the 90's or 2000's, I remember listening to Pac, Big, 50 Cent, Jeezy, Eminem, etc, front to back, but that's because these artist had a particular sound and stuck to that particular sound. I haven't listened to a full album front to back since 2020, and before that, since the early 2000's. Most of the artist who have most of their project make my playlist are artist who have very distinctive sounds and don't push out of their lane much, IE, Gunna, Pop Smoke, Nardo Wick, Est Gee, King Von, Pooh Shiesty, etc etc. You may not like these artist, but the people who do, they really like them and listen to most of their music. As long as artist plan to be versatile and really check every box, then there is too many styles and sounds to hit. Similar to what you said, I literally go to an album page, click through every song, skip 2-3 times throughout the track, if I like the vibe, I put it in my playlist. Typically 80%-90% of the songs put on my playlist will make the final cut, some will get cut because of some dumb interlude or something I didn't notice. This is the way of modern music, I don't mind it.

[@papasheev5252]

I mean that’s sad though because artists should be putting effort into their art. Why tf are you going to make a 90 minute album if a majority of the music is dog shit?

[@zoom7676]

there is no way this is a real comment… if you unironically listen to music this way then you genuinely disgust me… 20 seconds ?? jesus have some integrity

[@CypressDahlia]

@@zoom7676 I unironically listen to music this way. Go talk about it to your therapist.

[@MaxMax-zo9vq]

I’m always going to prefer shorter albums to longer albums, but that’s mainly because the way I consume music is on my commute. Both are great albums, but I’ll take an “Illmatic” over a “Life After Death” any day. I don’t think there’s really a right answer and people’s takes are entirely dependent on how they consume music. But in either case, the album has to be good or there’s no point in even having the debate.

[@hahaaxd4041]

I actually agree with both takes. It depends on how you yourself approach an album. You can see the album as a whole and say this album overall is underwhelming but I like this and this track, or you can just pick and choose by listening to each track a little bit and deciding if it's for you or not, which is something you can decide rather quickly, you either fuck with it or you don't, that's not rocket science.

[@julianluna8688]

I think the issue with releases today is that artists will drop an album pretty much just as a "batch" rather than a concise body of work. Sure not every album has to have a theme but the streaming Era really has pushed a lot of artist to not trim off the fat but rather bloat their own releases because they know the more tracks are on the record the more streams they'll receive. Just receit that Cole 95 South line.

[@danieljohnson9412]

Shawn Cee pretending to recognize Madvilliany samples is still one of the most hilarious and cringe things I’ve ever seen

[@bakhtiyarguseinov9402]

Fax

[@viroz6562]

He probably recognizes them.

[@the__answerr]

Timelaps?

[@illyad5435]

No cap it’s like no way dude 😂

[@gotworc]

🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓

[@TroubledTrooper]

I'd like them to split up compilation records and concept albums, so you have songs that are arranged in concept or form for artistic purpose in an album that is intended to be taken in it's entirety, and then later or maybe at the same time you have a compilation record of all the songs that are intended to be taken apart for playlists and such. That way we can serve both listening communities, those seeking more out of an album as an artform, and those listening casually.

[@prodbyzaqq]

🍉 da 🐐 no 🧢

[@1lps1]

“translate to english” 😭

[@dannylight7022]

@@1lps1 he said that Fantanos toes smell funny

[@aaronpescasio]

prodbyzaqq da 🐐 = 🧢

[@pedrorian528]

Watermelon da goat no cap

[@chuyozuna2398]

@@1lps1 😂😂😂

[@jmcfar03]

i will always listen to the whole album from artists before picking singles off. sequencing in albums is a skill in itself and there's always an intent or a reason for tracks being placed at certain points. for some artists, this is likely no longer the case, but for artists like kendrick, there tends to be a meaning behind how an album is constructed.

[@gerosky77]

Love when 2 of my favorite You tubers cross over! 🔥🔥

[@matthewricker3709]

This feels like when Myke C Town and Feefo have their friendly disagreements on DEHH😂

[@huh5950]

nah albums ain't dead I NEED them, I zone out listening to them as a whole, whether that's commuting, working out or something else, I REALLY don't like playlists of random things, some can be good but they are the ones that have a certain mood and put songs in a certain order just like, you guessed it, ALBUMS

[@HipHopfan_]

I'm still an album listener. I only listen to albums from front to back and don't listen to a singlr playlist

[@DaveDEF82]

I am turning 40 soon and I aways find 1 1/2 hours to listen to an album if I want to. Hell, I had the time to watch the freaking Zach Snyder cut of Justice League...

[@mrmxyzptlk8906]

Snyder Cut was beautiful

[@K_DC]

There are some songs that artists choose as 'singles', but we've seen a good amount of times, where it's not chosen correctly. Especially in the U.S., in hip-hop, when the gatekeeping of the IN 'sound' of a given year/season is narrow. We've seen in interviews, when artists are generally surprised when certain tracks popped off. Lastly, [Way 2 sexy] is just terrible.

[@xxnijaanarchyxx6095]

Well but look at KSG for example. Thats a 20 min album full of bangers. Ye and Cudi knew 'yeah these are the best of the full batch of songs we made' and released those 7 songs

[@maxhedman]

We need a podcast with these two legends debating music

[@neoguy2809]

"My two favorite African-American creators"

[@joaquinlewis3558]

I think the album format is dead in terms of the experience, but I don’t think the album format will go away. The album format is way to profitable, tours are centered around them, more streams for a bunch of singles is possible, and it gives breathing room for the audience in terms of releases. If every artist switched to releasing singles, the merchandising, touring, and cashe of an artists and their songs would disappear. The market would be flooded with a ton of singles from everyone all the time. At least with the album format I get a break in between big releases. All in all, I think the album format is way to profitable and integral to the music industry that it won’t go away m

[@richkingtodd7679]

They’re not even disagreeing. It’s 2 different perspectives that I know too well. This should’ve been more like a “Yes and/ but…” kind of conversation.

[@sicroyalty]

so i think this is a tough discussion to have, because it's involving the two extreme examples of music listeners. Single listeners vs. album listeners. I'm the person that knows singles are coming and gets the hype for the album, then i burn that album out in the following month or two to really experience it. Then there's the single listeners who go "yeah i love those guys" but know five or ten songs. But the thing is, those single listeners already exist while albums are the main format at the moment, and have before this conversation existed. So i think if artists stop dropping full albums, the hardcores and the people who listen to those full albums will drop off completely because that's not what they're here for, and casual fans/singles listeners are fickle anyways, so catering to them could be detrimental to their revenue and relevance.

[@szymek2013]

The boys are debating and I'm loving it

[@theincredibledrl9684]

I'm the type of guy to just: - Listen to an album; - Pick out my Favourite songs from the album and just put them on my playlists; - Listen to those songs; - Go back to the album, listen to the least favourites and see if they grow on me; And that's it. I just not the type of person to sit through an entire project multiple times In order to get the the song I like. But If ya do like sitting through album's that's completely okay 👍

[@matthewengland8699]

If the album is more than 45 mins there are really only 2 ways it goes Amazing and quality and effort shine through and it stands the test of time It has 1-2 really solid songs and the rest of it is just for money and we can all tell its BS

[@matshbocks]

I'm moreso with Shawn on this one being honest. sometimes I like to listen to albums the whole way through as their own albums, and even if some people are looking for the tracks they like in one, I feel that having a smaller size can allocate for people picking out who's gonna like what.

[@RoarTheRapper]

Great conversation!

[@washingmachinedoesntneedme4947]

Make an album cohesive, independently of how many songs has. Put your best songs only. 20 minutes. 40 minutes. 80 minutes. Cohesive.

[@synthiandrakon]

Long albums are only really a problem for the small minority who actually still listen to music in album form. For the vast majority, it feels like big albums are just more options that you might like. Or a different way to describe it is that for the artist, its more pulls on a slot machine to hopefully get a hit

[@Bxrry]

My 2 favorite

[@lrba5524]

i think they're both kinda right. I don't think Drake released CLB for the sake of making a dope album, but I also don't really think he's throwing shit at the wall either. I think he just felt pressure from the industry that has been leaning long lately. I think what's missing here is albums are released for critical clout and academy-type notoriety. I think talking about music and debating who the best rapper is for example is still a crucial part of music consumption and what is gonna come up in those debates is which reviewer gave what album what, what albums are some of the best in recent years.

[@klctht6606]

These 18+ track hip hop albums are fine with me long as they have enough variety. When an album goes past the 45min/10-12 track format you know there's probably no interconnected tracklist or concept to be found in it, but i liked Drake's More Life, because it flowed pretty well, the production felt and sounded consistent, and it didn't hit too many terrible low spots. it's great for a ride, a road trip, a vacation, it's not supposed to do more. Tory Lanez' Memories Don't Die is my guilty pleasure in this same lane. Some similar but better thought-out or more conceptual examples of this are TLOP and Donda, or G Herbo's 28-track long deluxe version of PTSD. The problem with CLB or Culture 2 and 3 is that there's nothing holding the album together, and a lot of the tracks themselves are simply terrible. I don't think any possible 10-track trim of CLB would improve the album much. Also, this is all mostly happening in Hip Hop. In other genres, albums haven't changed much really (unless you wanna bring up the neighboring R&B or the influx of clearly hip hop-inspired viral pop artists). I hope this problem which isn't that big to begin with, doesn't translate into the demise of the album format with labels or streaming services leading us into a world where playlists replace albums forever. Albums, however long or loose and unfocused, still bear a hint of their creator's personality or mindset at the time of creation, even if it's greed or creative drought.

[@ngolokantecar]

i still like the album format and hate playlists put together of different albums or artists. what i do though (with donda for example) when the album is too long i make my own version of it and throw away songs i dont like. so it is a better listening experience for me

[@BigBallerDuck]

For a lot of the long hour+ albums I make my own cut in playlist to try to cut out the filler and fix the sequencing

[@Mark-xw5yt]

I used to listen to my own big ass playlists. Then I started just putting on a song and letting the algorithm choose. Now I pretty much just listen to albums

[@Lucid874]

The immovable object and unstoppable train collide in an 8 minute video

[@unhelpfulrevelations7989]

Honestly I don't think there's a single double album I've ever listened to that I can enjoy all the way through without getting fatigued. I'm talking Beatles white album, Mellon Collie, Skinny Fists, Electric Ladyland, various Swans releases. If I actually average out my enjoyment, not a single one of them is stronger than like a 7/10 purely because the listening experience is not enjoyable as a whole, despite the fact that I like these artists a lot.

[@roxkstarr]

That’s why mixtapes are a priority to me take those songs that people loved and put it on a whole tape like chief keef did before because most people aren’t going to listen to a whole album if they only like 4 songs or 5 songs out of 25 songs just take them 4 songs scratch that bs ass album add 5 more songs and drop a tape to test what people will love and what they would hate so now you know what to do on your album to make it one of the best you dropped or atleast put more thought into it now a days they just drop albums like it’s a just a comp of songs I’m not gonna listen to 20+ songs just for me to like 3 and the majority likes 5

[@samuelcourliss8496]

I don't ever listen to long albums unless I'm at work trying to pass the time. Nothing makes time go faster than doing mindless work while listening to an album and when it ends, realizing you've gotten through an entire hour in the blink of an eye

[@smoovychevyss6486]

Is this a taste of a future Fantano/shawncee podcast 🤔. I’d listen.

[@mrmxyzptlk8906]

MBDTF is 70 minutes, blows by so quick, masterpiece

[@royalkina]

By "the people" he meant the bots. I doubt more than 2/3 of listeners in any streaming app are actual human beings. Great discussion by the way

[@Leon-le1vq]

I like to listen to albums I love from front to back but there's also tracks I bump regularly from for example Pegasus by Trippie Redd, which is an extremely overbloated and painful experience if you listen to the whole thing.

[@towersthetoad2161]

at this point i listen to albums exclusively, and 95% of the time they're all albums i havent heard before

[@somethingsomething9008]

Imagine if debating politics went this well

[@valaska4059]

Just do bonus tracks or a throwaway album simple tings

[@RavenMcCarthy]

I loved this and need a love button.

[@nedeggert4290]

Video summed up: long albums are good if they’re good and they’re bad if they’re bad

[@l1p0v]

NIN's The Fragile is 103 minutes , and that's without bonus tracks. One of the best albums ever created.

[@professionalmemeenthusiast2117]

The more I listen to it the more essential almost all of it seems. I think it could lose 6 or 7 minutes at most, and at that length that's absurdly good.

[@michaelmantinaos8330]

Only the real music heads still listen to whole albums

[@trenhen4311]

It’s so sad that’s it’s fr come to this. 90% of listeners just skim through albums

[@mister-pinkman]

I listen to whole albums a few times, THEN I pick the ones I love and put them in a playlist. If I really like an album, but dislike a few tracks on it, I’m not gonna put them in my playlist and listen to them. Because I don’t like them.

[@luvpluuto]

@@mister-pinkman this is the correct way to do things

[@MaxMax-zo9vq]

The majority of people haven’t listened to full albums since the digitization of music purchases.

[@manuelc3423]

After Donda I've been really questioning that. That record is long af and it's not that worth it when you look at the tracklist. And it's not thaaat concept focused to justify it's length. Had a similar experience with Cities Aviv's Man Plays the Horns. That record is waaay to long and a bit underwhelming as well, even though it has some beautiful songs

[@andymejia5456]

Idk what Anthony is talking about, the album format is not dying. People want album drops, people look forward to album drops, vinyl records are booming, people are discovering great albums all the time now w the help of tik tok/spotify. Me personally i love listening to entire albums in one sitting and hopping on the next album, whether if it’s just in the background, or i’m letting it consume me.

[@wade_west]

The only album that was hard for me to finsh was Indigo by chris brown back in 2019

[@royfablooo2810]

Maybe I need to change because I'm the guy who listen to the whole album, I ain't a guy who picks out the songs and put em on my playlist I don't have that. I pick an album I want to listen and then I'll listen to it Front to back.

[@CruciaLou]

Give me the longest album, if it’s consistent and it’s a consistent artist, fuck it. To be a fan, you gotta jam it out and feel it out. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@ytm23ak]

Love listening to entire 1 hour + albums on my walks if they’re good consistently through. Gives a ton of variety and I always find a new favorite every time I listen

[@773ohh6]

I try to make my playlists sound like an album. There’s interludes between the songs but from different artists.

[@stoic8168]

Why don't we just let artists release what they want and how they want then we can either listen or not listen... people make shit too complicated and it doesn't need to be

[@iliiiillil4240]

I agree. People act like they have to listen to the music all at once.

[@bluesyace9564]

music critics are the most stupid people to exist cuz everyone responds different music in different ways, you can't nah, you SHOULDN'T put it on an objective scale and give it ratings, that makes no sense, we don't want thematically perfect songs every time, we don't want melodies perfect in respect to the instrumental every time, we don't need an album to be conceptual for it to be good, sometimes people relate more to corny lines, sometimes people just want bangers that don't have substance, sometimes people want to listen to sth deep and don't care if the instrumental is that, sometimes people just wanna vibe and dance to sth like panda by desiigner, I feel like every piece of music serves a purpose and if one person that is not the artist at least likes the song genuinely from the bottom of their heart, that makes it a good song. If someone likes friday, then that's a good song, nothing more needs to be said

[@nonono7973]

I don't think any critic of any kind ever claims that their views are objective. The point of being a critic is to critique. Music critics, movie critics, food critics, and whatever other kinds of critic all have knowledge about their given field of criticism to offer valid and educated thoughts and feelings. Hype and lack of concept still rank high for fantano anyways (Lil Pump - ST and Die Lit being prime examples)

[@mrlense2078]

Some people like the "unnecesary" songs. Extra songs are not a detriment to you because you don't have to listen to them and those who want to listen to them do exactly that.

[@blackattack8212]

And I definitely disagree with cee cuz it's so many one hit wonders you can go off of two songs for songs now people arguing and fighting you can't be that individual and plus you can have a name like Chance the rapper you got to have a niece in a market for that type of music so once it first album came out and nobody was feeling it cuz there's no type of genre for it his name made it go down even harder so I disagree just because you can name drop somebody doesn't mean it makes that album or song incredible or bad so saying just because the name makes it popular I disagree the market for it and the people behind it what makes it

[@dgayle2348]

Artists need to identify whether they're singles artists or album artists. If you're a singles artist, go for a lower quantity album 10 tracks, 11 max. If you're an album artist don't go past 15-16.

[@samaraisnt]

!!! (this is actually the best take.)

[@DeezNuts-hh7pw]

It’s intresting bc I remember in the culture III review I think where Fantano was basically saying Shawn cees perspective. Recorded music really hasn’t been around that long in comparison to the entire history of music, and streaming just being a fraction of that. The landscape for music and our culture is constantly and rapidly changing.

[@ninjaboy191]

Man, not gonna lie, it kinda makes me sad that prominent music journalists on youtube are trying to say long albums are bad from every perspective. Art is art, let the artist release what they want to. I loved the FUCK outta Donda and it was very long. But guess what? I wasn't just checked out after 12 songs, I was engaged the whole time because I needed to experience what Ye was putting out sonically. I CRIED during come to life, whereas I saw streamers pass over it and then only give it another chance when reddit and twitter praised the song as an underrated gem. Now I get it, Shawn is right, not everyone is Kanye, but we need to allow the space to be open to longer albums so we can get more Tyler the Creators, more JPEGMAFIAs. Allow these artists who are true artists and not radio shills to pack their albums with whatever they please.

[@elmaestro14]

Kid experts without brain at his best

[@londreebaskit2874]

Peggy love

[@maxxmarino6500]

Bro these guys matter on KZbin, in real life they aren't prominent.. they have the illusion of mattering because they collected subscribers, but it's not necessarily because their good reviewers, they just entertained the subscribers enough to gain a click. Doesn't mean shit in real life though. I never in my life have picked what music I'm gonna listen to based off a Fantano or Sean Cee take. It's just some shit to watch to kill time. Tbh most of the time I don't agree with either of them at all, it's just funny watching two random guys who have no musical accolades bullshit their way through ten minutes of footage by using a vast vocabulary and memes to somehoe justify a bad take. They produce their reviews like a kid doing a PowerPoint in school for some class, they do a good job of seeming professional but I'm reality Fantano sucks at music and Shawn sucks at singing, they even do their weird little musical numbers and pretend to be joking because that way if anyone critiqued them like they do to real artists they can fall back on an excuse of "I'm not trying for real" they wish they had talent but don't, so instead they make money by shitting on those who do

[@LunaBey777]

12 songs is not a long album. It’s just 2 more from the minimum an album should be.

[@therealmusichead]

Simple solution, if you don't want the full album because it's "too long", buy the individual tracks you like. 🤷🏿‍♂️

[@markhegedus1981]

The insanity of viewing art and product never ceases to amaze me. Shawn refers to them as "artists" while talking about music as if people were picking their favourite cereal flavours.

[@randhika5636]

i think this is why kanye hated showing features in his recent album, even opt out from streaming service all together since he thinks that streaming services destroying the art of music album in the first place when the listener just listen to the most popular song in that album. i don't blame both parties but it is a sad truth about it. it destroys album integrity and art, but the feature is also needed in streaming services.

[@steadyrhythms9571]

this was scary and intense

[@Hamzethegoat]

Weeknd’s last two albums had amazing album formats in my opinion and they were both short 14 to 13 songs

[@Zarrx]

It really fucking depends maaaaaaaan, I don't need a 17 song trap album, it's fucking trap music. lower it to 7, 8, or 9 and I might listen through the whole thing but other wise its fatiguing. Metal often falls into this category for me. Too similar a song, Drake isn't far off. For an artist who has a deeper talent pool of sounds i'd say 11-12 is my perfect amount on an album, maybe 13.

[@suckmyduck7029]

I think if you're going to rate an album, you have to listen to the full fucking album, I've had so many conversations with people about albums, and people form such strong opinions on them without even actually listening to them. Besides that, I don't think a listener has any obligation to listen to an album in it's entirety.

[@nikolademitri731]

Good and bad points from both yinz imo. I hard disagree on “the album is dead”. For more mainstream artists, and maybe a massive part of the mainstream music consuming public, it’s maybe dead? Or at least I struggle with calling a lot of that crap a “work of art” and/or a “genuine” “artistic statement”. Ok, maybe that’s the death of the album in some way, but “the album is dead”, writ large? Hell no, that’s some silly ass sh!t, and Tony knows it’s bologna. I get albums from indie and underground artists from Bandcamp or wherever, and it’s clear that the album is a labor of love, and that fans love it (and yeah, some more mainstream artists still believe in that too, and not just mo trax mo munee, hashtag not all ffs). That said, I’m not down with all out denouncing longer albums. It can get frustrating when it’s over an hour, especially when we’re talking 80+ minutes, but also many of my FOAT albums are over 70 minutes. If it fits the artistic statement, and there’s not a whole ton of filler, then I think it’s not only okay, but can be necessary in making that album truly great. Sure, what’s filler is subjective, but let’s be serious, we can damn near call a lot of trax damn near objectively filler, especially when you’re talking the most mainstream artists going for the extra album length to pad out for contractural obligations, or for the “mo monee” approach on streaming platforms. It really depends on the situation, but I don’t buy the, “you’re making me do labor” thing, even if it can feel like work on some albums. ✌️

[@Frijolero18]

I wanna see Shawn listen to a 3-hour drone album lol

[@tienwang113]

it's quite simple, some albums are intended as an experience and can be listened to in one go. other albums are not designed as such and can't really be viewed the same way.

[@spookyboi8446]

Idk the only drop I look foreward to from Future is which baby mama and child he is dropping.

[@Swagghanistan]

6:24 - MEEEEGOS

[@madonna_rocket]

Albums can be as long as they justify themselves to be. Does anyone really wish that To Be Kind or TPAB or The Epic were shorter? If you put a bunch of unfinished bullshit on your album it's a whole other story.

[@Girt-]

Anthony hearing him say beyond an hour is enough knowing full well that most of swans discography consists of albums that are 2+ hours

[@rampageraptor3589]

TNDstreams Could someone ask melon to review (any of) the following? I live in the Netherlands, so I cannot watch the stream. Thanks in advance

[@User-oy1vy]

These guys are great

[@jkadriann]

I’m a big listen to the album in whole person

[@MayankKumar-ch8pq]

I agree with a bunch of things here but if as an artist you are telling yourself that I can't release a long record cause I'm not Kanye(or any one who's had a really successful career till that point) you are practically attacking your own self confidence and that just sucks. Also I don't think artist expect everyone to listen to an album in a single sitting either, that's a choice we (a minority) has made for ourselves.

[@your_doctor_and_plumber]

"Future can do that bc he's Future" makes no sense... Shawn doesn't understand that the logic behind releasing songs in groups as Fantano explained can apply to anyone, big or small. Not hating on Shawn or anything but I don't fw how he always gives opinions so arrogantly to make it seem like they're facts or no brainers, when really it's just his thoughts. That's why I can never get through his album reactions, he's always so sure of himself and quick to judge. There are so many more open minded "reactors" on YT

[@camraging641]

If anyone does that it’s Anthony. The way he extends and adds words that aren’t necessary clearly spells that out lol. Both are great I just think your point is weird. How is Shawn speaking as if what he saying is facts? It’s not. It’s just an opinion you disagree with

[@your_doctor_and_plumber]

@@camraging641 it’s not weird.. the point is *the way* he delivers his opinions is often times so arrogant and pompous like he’s on some pedestal of hip hop knowledge. Like bro can’t catch a vibe w a song/artist then he’ll go and say they’re trash, don’t put out anything of value, lyrics weak, etc. when the whole point/value of the song was the vibe (that he missed) in the first place. And he’s so quick to judge esp in album reactions. He’ll hear a bit of song/instrumental he don’t like then automatically make a silly/disgust face and decide he ain’t fuckin w it the rest of the song without giving it a chance or looking for why it would be appealing or the artist’s intent. Or he’ll go into a reaction w a whole laundry list of things he “expects” from the artist instead of simply sitting down and listening to what *they* want to give Like I said, there’s way more open minded YT reactors out there. Ppl like Jon Denton, Vibevilla even Mr2KGod who aren’t so blinded by their own biases and can give artists a fair humble listen

[@josephkreye1364]

I agree with Melon on that, that’s a damn good point