She-Hulk - A Lesson In Terrible Writing

[@Naveication]

Hulk: - Experimented on as a child - His father killed his mother - Turned into a monster against his will - Captured by the government - Experimented on by the government - Involuntarily killed lot's of people without wanting to - Lived in hiding from the government for multiple years in a third-world country separated from his loved ones - Love of his life died - Unable to commit suicide because the monster within him prevents it - Got stuck on an alien planet for years - Got controlled by the monster within him while on that planet - Pressured to save the world multiple times She-Hulk: - Is a woman - Gets catcalled by men "I have so much more experience controlling my anger than you! :

[@codenameprototype6219]

Precisely

[@muthusubramaniam5894]

Are you trying to say that all those traumatic things that scarred Bruce for life and caused PTSD, anxiety and suicidal thoughts are worse than being catcalled by hooligans or having a condescending co-worker??? How dare you??? I'm gonna go call the woke police...

[@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad]

@@muthusubramaniam5894 I'm gonna call Corporate. I'm gonna call Manager.

[@sepehrjafari793]

She also has to go through her period's cramp every month

[@3u-n3ma_r1-c0]

i thought that was intentionally made as like, a contradiction. when she gets mad while explaining how she doesnt get mad.. i mean I thought it was like, the point. the idea was that, it *does* eat away at her, and she *is* mad- hence the purpose of the whole 'she-hulk' thing, kind of a message to a group of people whom like to pretend that the things they suffer through daily dont bother them when they really, truly do, and this side of her- her 'hulk' side, is supposed to represent something thats genuine and unfiltered. or well it probably would if this was a good show, but I dont think it is.

[@ninjaswordtothehead]

I like how she says she hates having her own area of expertise explained to her, as *she explains controlling anger to Professor Hulk* .

[@MrMisanthrope84]

This is the annoying undercurrent to the entire show. She's lecturing the wrong person the entire time.

[@sauros1]

can we have a new term called fem-splaining?

[@Grimalken1969]

Yup, a man compliments her on her appearance, and another takes time out of his day to do for her, what he thinks is helping out.

[@calebevans2258]

I mean, she’s a woman so it doesn’t apply to her. 😂

[@dougsmith6262]

Like how in Batwoman when she's miffed that people mistook her for Batman and says "I'm not about to let a man take credit for a woman's work", while oblivious to the fact that she's appropriating a man's gear and reputation.

[@vinjass]

Don't you love when she says she's sick of men explaining her field of expertise, while she explains Bruce's field of expertise

[@F9023JFjcDfsdfw2e]

Democrats don't know what hypocrisy means, or double standard for that matter.

[@concernedhomosapien9807]

I am sick of humans myself, i think i am ahead of the curve this way, i am more WOKE than WOKE, i am unable to sleep

[@Tetrathegod]

Woman moment

[@echs457]

I think that was supposed to highlight her apparent hypocrisy. She then goes on to say "i'm never gonna use my powers" and has to use them.

[@roryasrorri701]

it's okay when women do it

[@zootopiawilson]

Drinker, your idea of Jen being injured and Bruce giving her a blood transfusion is actually the comic book origin of She-Hulk

[@kenechukwuimm]

How did they flop this ffs

[@gianmatute7577]

It is like an ubisoft game trailer and the game itself, just a downgrade in every way

[@matheuskirisame]

This only proves anyone outside could do a better story than Marvel at this point, since the guy loreblinded managed to think of the real story without knowing it.

[@IronDeficiencyMan]

Yall don't realize this version of Bruce would never want Jennifer to deal with being a Hulk, after everything he has been through. It makes more sense the way it happens now

[@oneaboveall1922]

@@IronDeficiencyMan so Bruce would rather his cousin DIE than her be a hulk? are you serious?

[@gyrfalconhawk8120]

Maybe if Disney stopped making female characters who are strong, and started making strong characters who happen to be female, people would like them more

[@sparky844]

fr

[@dao_of_potato4957]

fr x2

[@dao_of_potato4957]

fr +1

[@airena1449]

*claps in agreement*

[@iltuilpe2432]

the problem is that they think that a woman is only strong if she has the weird feminazi archetype , a woman can be a strong in so many ways and environments its crazy they only chose the man hating one , i guess that is what they want us to be , fighting between eachother.

[@spiritbx1337]

She literally makes fun of the people that sacrificed their lives to save the world... And she is supposed to be the one we cheer for?

[@solidbhatt]

Marvel: yes

[@Doggieworld3Show]

She's a lawyer ;)

[@theguy8474]

@@Doggieworld3Show ahem* woman lawyer

[@Flame_Overseer]

@@Doggieworld3Show 😂

[@timberwolfmountaineer873]

@@theguy8474 Lawyerina*

[@BarkingCur]

The sad thing is, that “I control my anger better than you” speech could work if the writers realized the irony of the situation. Here Jen is, ranting about how awesome she is at controlling her emotions, all while losing her cool and yelling at her cousin. Meanwhile Professor Hulk calmly listens, not even raising his voice. Who handled their temper better in that scene, Jen or Professor Hulk? Now, suppose this is all building up to a critical moment of self-realization. Suppose at the “dark night of the soul” moment in the season, Jen realizes that her narcissistic, self-absorbed attitude, combined with her She-Hulk powers, have made her dangerous to herself and everyone around her. Her earlier claim that she was no superhero has proven prophetic because she is in fact becoming a supervillain. In that moment she must reevaluate everything her cousin was trying to teach her at the beginning of the series and realize all he was trying to do was help her. The problem is, I am not at all convinced this is what the writers are going for. Even if they are, unless they improve the writing and ease up on the male/female stereotypes, the audience may not hang around long enough to find out.

[@duckman9327]

make this person a marvel writer

[@Caffeine_Club]

They clearly had her state she meant to change on purpose, which pissed away a perfect opportunity to show a personality flaw that she can work on to overcome.

[@maneskinned]

nice writeup

[@fran3ro]

Who is this "Professor Hulk" you talk about? I only saw Soyhulk and She-Bitch

[@beatsbygoldfinger1924]

You wrote all this when you don’t gotta watch fam 😂. I don’t understand all the hate to a COMIC BOOK SHOW. You gotta watch shit for what it is instead of what it should be because it’s the director, producer and company’s direction for the show. And It’s marvel man they sell a certain brand if you not into it there’s way too many movies and tv shows out there to enjoy.

[@jffry890]

My favorite part about that pretentious speech was her literally seething with rage while stating how well she can control her anger while at the same time proving how she's so easily triggered.

[@izuoh2704]

She did it on purpose. The point wasn't that she feels nothing, it was that she can control it once it happens.

[@supereststinger]

When I saw that, I thought they were going to go the route of: "I think I'm better than you, but, in fact, I'm the same." Then they did the out performing shit. Then I was like: "Oh. They are going to give her a gigantic flaw that counteracts this!" I was naive to think this would be good.

[@stefantsarev4442]

So, let me get this straight: - He almost gets killed by the gamma radiation that made him into the Hulk; - He was chased across the world by Ross and fired upon countless times; - He lost Natasha; He almost lost his arm due to the Infinity stones. But yeah, she had it worse because she was catcalled.

[@KasumiKenshirou]

He also lost Betty Ross. (I don't remember what happened to her in the MCU.)

[@koopa5504]

And somewhere kids go to war.. but women in first world countries have it the WORST! The literally get catcalled and don't know what to dress in the morning, they really be living in a horrible patriarcic world!

[@matthewdenz1045]

Don't forget that he tried to kill himself only to find that the thing that already ruined his life now makes it impossible for him to die.

[@steffanyschwartz7801]

@@koopa5504 random women think she has it worse then a kid in Liberia who had to fight with general Buttnaked and the cannibal president

[@Neon1880]

hey just to add, her dad beat him for 15 years, and his dad beat his mother to death

[@djcoasters2732]

Love when she says she’s great at controlling her anger while she’s raging hardcore in front of Hulk.

[@SubZero-hs9xc]

The problem is not a dialogue base by the ideology of the character But a rant of the writers

[@MrMisanthrope84]

And she steals Hulk's jeep, tries to run him over with it, and trashes his house. She acts like an irrational dick and petulant brat for the entire episode.

[@rbu2136]

After she nearly murdered some guys who went heyyyyyyy

[@thephoenix4093]

that was the point. to show that she actually needs hulk she denied him because of overconfidence so Bruce just made her angry to show her why she needs to stay.

[@donk8961]

Exactly, she's not controlling her anger she's holding it inside her.

[@ethanwright7040]

Jen - a lawyer (a good paying job) -a high standing at her job - is desired by people -has many friends - one friend won't stfu about her Also Jen: it's so hard to be me boohoo

[@Treblady]

First world problems 🤣

[@azazelgrigori9244]

Yeah, women in high paying careers are always victims. While men who do society’s dirty jobs are just uncultured brutes

[@TheGaurav831]

@@Rek_Rc lmfao 🤣

[@TheGaurav831]

@@Rek_Rc np bro

[@azazelgrigori9244]

@@Rek_Rc I see you're point, but I don't think that's what the show is doing.

[@cristianmunoz2480]

She Hulk could have been such a good show but they hired writers that haven't even read the original She Hulk comics

[@YelenaSkunky]

Yeah, that's really sad. They should have hired someone who knows and respects the freaking source material. Otherwise, why doing a She-Hulk show?

[@cristianmunoz2480]

@YelenaSkunky because they see a woman hero and used her because she's a woman.

[@liamphibia]

​@@YelenaSkunky And someone who knows how freaking lawyering works.

[@jeffl4147]

@@liamphibia You mean the court system 😭i aint ever heard that before, had to say it out loud to myself and everything yes i know this comment is a year old, fear me

[@ELputinruska]

Because feminist is shit

[@RainbowdashLT]

what made me hate this, even as a woman. She explains how she has to control her anger all the time and men calling her emotional. M e a n w h i l e, are we gonna forget the fact Bruce nearly blew his brains out because he became so depressed and felt awful having hulk in his head, and it drove him nuts...but he didn't. nice nod that society doesn't care about mens mental health edit: Bruce did pull the trigger, but hulk didn't let him die and topped the bullet. I forgot about that it has been a while

[@faoy2024]

Over a million men a year go through actually follow through with it too. Thank you for realizing that.

[@spookyscarysteve]

Well it’s less that he didn’t and more like Hulk made him survive it. Isnt the quote “I bit the bullet, he (refering to Hulk) spit it back out”?

[@Helena-me6mp]

@@spookyscarysteve yep (more or less)

[@zqninja3334]

He did fire, but Hulk spit the bullet out. Watch the movies :/

[@markheinle6319]

ohhh dang you dropped the mens mental health thing. that will absolutely play. great work

[@nategwright]

“I’m better at controlling my anger than you” She-Hulk said calmly.

[@strawberrydingdong4097]

"Did you put your name in the goblet of fire, Harry?" Dumbledore asked calmly.

[@Red-jl1qr]

@@strawberrydingdong4097 yes that was the joke nice catch

[@thegoblin2004]

Exactly, she loses her shit while say how good she is at anger management

[@steelin666]

What a great callback to a classic meme.

[@blindfire3167]

Tbf, I think it was written as a comedic thing since even Bruce makes a face or 2 how she's contradicting her self (and She-Hulk the comic was written with comedic focus) but I think the director probably changed it thinking it would be better serious (or maybe Disney/Marvel execs thought they were poking fun of women for getting angry at being cat called and went with this rather than the comedic genius it could be...) There's a video that someone put together that puts footage after each statement she makes where it shows how contradictory she's being, and it's genuinely funny. Top it off with Bruce getting back at her saying she's not gone through anything yet and then apologizing for what's going to come of it would be an easy Emmy, but now we have to live with this shit. Edit: I haven't watched the series yet, but just found out they went with "They got into a car wreck where BRUCE is the one knocked unconscious and bleeds from the arm, which gets into her small cut which turns her into a Hulk rather than SAVING HER GOD DAMN LIFE LIKE IN THE FUCKING COMICS! I mean, how the fuck is Bruce, who now has full control of his powers get hurt and knocked out while she gets away with a minor cut on her arm??! What sense does that make?!

[@flamingburitto]

Just to put it into perspective, here's reasons why Bruce can be angry: - Having an abusive father who beat his mother to death - living with a monster inside him - being hunted for a good portion of his life - living with the consequences of the harm caused by hulk, and blaming himself for it - being so depressed by it that he was gonna end his life. - after seeing no way out being so conflicted that he pushed himself into isolation into a third world country - after finally having a team and a "family" he has to watch the love of his life die and his best friend also sacrifice his life. And this is just stuff in MCU, go into comics and there's whole lot more. And now, reasons why she hulk is angry? - catcalling And she tells Bruce that she has been controlling her anger infinitely more??? edit: 3k likes!? today is a good day.

[@SamtheBravesFan]

Don't forget people being mean to her at work.

[@adrianrussell7769]

That's the kicker. She's may be better at managing her anger, but Bruce has like, a lot more anger to deal with. He has so much anger it literally manifests in separate personas. They could have highlighted this difference without belittling Bruce's journey.

[@spqr1945]

Still she suffered more, because she is a woman.

[@christopherbronson3275]

And don't forget the mansplaining

[@JWeb66]

Or older men who've had years of experience in the same profession telling her how to do her job.

[@isaactheicemancombs7443]

6:35-6:55 The blood transfusion thing you mentioned here is her actual origin in the comics. Congratulations you know more of the source material than the writers of the show

[@bartolomeestebanmurillo4459]

Bruce: PTSD, hunted by the military for years, isolated himself because of the Hulk Jen: gets her panties in a twist because of catcalling and mansplaining.

[@cord113]

Also, do you remember what Bruce said about what it's like getting forced into becoming the Hulk? "I don't get a suit of armor. I'm exposed, like a nerve. It's a nightmare." She doesn't seem to have to deal with that problem.

[@ky1ebetts]

Right? Women have it so damn difficult! Only when it’s convenient for them tho.

[@patrickoverstreet2372]

Worst part of that is in the original version of the character shes relatively ugly so stays as in hulk form since shes a giant sexy woman and it makes her feel confident and happy with herself. She has only ever been catcalled in hulk form XD

[@venturatheace1]

@@patrickoverstreet2372 not too far off from the show then.

[@ramixnudles7958]

@Emotional D Reported, Unwanted content or spam.

[@Electrical010]

If you make a character with ZERO flaws, you already failed in story writing.

[@captainb.mccrea5480]

If you make a character with only flaws and no strengths, you already failed in story writing too. She-Hulk description pretty much

[@HeortirtheWoodwarden]

What do you mean no flaws? She's insufferable for one.

[@captainb.mccrea5480]

@@HeortirtheWoodwarden no, they’re saying because the feminist, females-are-better-than men empowerment writers, made her as a ‘perfect and strong female character’ and making her character in show as apparently a perfect example of how strong females can be. The character itself is insufferable and inconsiderate, but in the show she’s apparently perfect for the writers

[@Electrical010]

@@captainb.mccrea5480 True.

[@firstlast9846]

I’m not a writer but that COULD BE an interesting character… If you have zero flaws and essentially flawless - *What if* it sent the character insane that they are perfect - and actively start pursuing morally questionable actions to scrub themselves of that “perfect” label… point being - they could’ve gone 12,000 directions with this series and they chose to be lazy 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@youvebeengreeked]

Bruce was abused by his father, who killed his mother in front of him, he had his gamma incident, was hunted by the military, fled into hiding in South America and attempted suicide, all while coping with the PTSD of turning into a giant green hulking monster and killing potentially dozens of people. Jen gets complimented on the street and patronised at work…

[@scrbroadcast]

@The real Ludwig van Beethoven uplift female characters at the expense of male characters... Feminism

[@MrMisanthrope84]

Don't worry they'll do the same with Iron Man when they make Ironheart. Completely revise his history and pretend Ironheart being mildly picked on at her high school is equal to Tony having his parents murdered by Winter Soldier, building his own company, having that company stolen by his best friend, having his heart almost ripped out, being held prisoner by terrorists and having to operate on himself, having his ass kicked by Thanos, building an entire fleet of Iron Man mechs by himself, having the US government come after his stuff, forming the Avengers, taking out giant flying whales in New York, almost nuking himself, having to fight his best friend because he sided with his parents killer, and finally sacrificing his life heroically for all of mankind's continued existence. They'll somehow neuter Iron Man and adamantly piss on his grave and make out he was some sort of toxic masculinist, even though despite being dead for years he's still everyones favourite Marvel character. I'm dreading it because Disney have been utterly predictable with this shit.

[@glassofwater281]

@@scrbroadcast that's my problem with many people. They say they want equality but treat one side worse than the other.

[@TheAnonimoshadow]

I wouldn't say "complimented in the street", but i agree with all the rest

[@wigglerwarrior3167]

Also don’t forget he struggles with a second, animalistic personality trapped within his mind while she’s completely sapient. On top of that he was a prisoner in his own body while stranded on an alien world for two years, and failed to save the woman loved in the battle to save the universe.

[@gallahant]

At this point i honestly do not know if the writers are promoting feminism or mocking it. Weird times we are living in.

[@bubbasbigblast8563]

The big irony is, the writers really DO need their job explained to them.

[@waynehewett4017]

To be honest I think you could explain it the studios and writers til the cows come home and it wouldn't make a scrap of difference People are hired by how many gender politics boxes they tick not by any talent, experience or love to write good stories that people actually want to see Just see what Kathleen Kennedy did to starwars and muti billion dollar franchise ?

[@nenmaster5218]

In Short: The authors Personality-Problems are showing through the Work. As is normal for basically all Work. Drinker mentions 'Petty Firstr-World-Problems' at the end, which makes me think were all ill-prepared for the Third-World to really come to the First-World now. Just one Example would be the Droughts and Water-Shortages and the Rich-screwing-us-over explained in the Video 'Were running out of Water' from Some-More-News.

[@dragons_red]

Because the are NOT experts

[@mnomadvfx]

In terms of the whole of cinematic/media history? Yes. In terms of what Disney/Marvel wants out of them? Not even remotely. They are literally just trolling men in the audience now whether the protagonist is a woman or not. They certainly aren't courting men to be interested in their media anymore.

[@GambitsEnd]

They know what writing is. Everyone can do it. They're just particularly bad at it.

[@StrugglingInTheInterstice]

"I generally don't like living in a world where being what a man is, is a horrible thing; and no matter what a woman is, is a wonderful thing."- Patrice O'Neal

[@jddi1527]

Same

[@WarlockX4]

The GOAT Patrice O'neal. He was taken way too soon...

[@soulbrotha6969]

Long live Black Phillip

[@misterwizardman4309]

i know right

[@smokingcrab2290]

Now replace the words "man" and "woman" with "black" and "white" and you now have another Marxist tactic.

[@DoctorInk20]

*Fun Fact:* Bruce giving Jen a life-saving transfusion is _literally_ how she got her powers in the comics. The writers could have had instant brownie points had they just stuck to that basic concept.

[@nolimitstrength]

I also thought this was dumb like how hard would it have been.

[@chalkdemon8019]

@@nolimitstrength it would’ve made her the “damsel in distress” the Fem-Nazis can’t have that, not even for a micro-second.

[@macmcleod1188]

@Emotional D please everyone report that post as spam.

[@countofdownable]

Can't have a man saving a woman's life.

[@echs457]

How often do the mcu writers stick to the comics?

[@tannerpeterson7164]

I love how angry she sounds when she tells Bruce that she’s good at controlling her anger…

[@Llama_charmer]

Why yes thank you for pointing it out i am incredibly humble

[@CheeseTheWhistle]

I'm not angry! You're angry!

[@benjaminaswad6486]

Her being able to outperform the Hulk at everything, first try, is THE MOST Mary Sue writing ever created.

[@Sude3220]

Besides that one character in a sexual trilogy we will not mention and give power to its name.

[@KyBerLeger]

did you not see the one scene where she threw a boulder and it landed slightly farther than the boulder Hulk threw so he proceeded to throw another boulder completely out of the atmosphere?

[@rons_seb]

@@Sude3220 sexual trilogy??? 50 shades??

[@pedrojustice]

most mary sue, yet there'`s always tomorow

[@davidokinsky114]

Why bother with a character arc when you can just make the character awesome to begin with.

[@Gloromo]

Its so strange to me how the "modern" way of empowering women is to ridicule and talk trash on men. Like how can you possibly think that this is an appropriate let alone the right way?

[@GozUnlimited]

Well there are 2 ways for a tree to grow taller then the rest. Use time and energy to grow above every other tree. Or chop all the other trees down. Guess which one modern writers opt for.

[@puppz3347]

@@GozUnlimited Right. Instead of just treating it fairly, taking care of all the trees. Make the area into an artifial golf camp with one singular tree.

[@discordlexia2429]

It's just venting frustration and passing it off as activism. What really pisses me off is when people recognise how much men are manipulated by societal pressures, and yet still think that shaming men from every angle will fix anything. Like, if they shamed toxic men while portraying kind and helpful men positively, that'd make sense, but they don't. This is not the way to fight dangerous gender ideas, it's the way to reinforce them. The people doing that are not my allies.

[@pruthvirajshinde9991]

And also how their idea of empowerment is always taking something from the men....never about coming up with something of their own ...take iron man From them ...take Hulk , take Spiderman , Thor , Loki , fking take everything. Why is this not tyranny ?

[@aidenaune7008]

its because doing so would require admitting that men are better than women in some ways, it doesnt matter to them that the opposite is true too, they hate the idea of men being better in an way because it requires admitting imperfection. there are countless movies and stories that focus around the strengths of women, and women generally love these stories, but they arent superhero movies. the woman doesnt get to be the strong one that saves the day because it goes against the very concept of a woman, it is contrary to what makes women special, and it undermines what makes men special. this is why female superheroes are so rare. men and women are different, each has different roles in life, this is because of a single aspect of nature: children. women, when pregnant, are virtually helpless, especially in the past when food had to be hunted, they couldnt take care of themselves. even after the baby was born it still needed the mother's constant attention for at least 2-3 years more, and by the time that was over she was pregnant yet again. women cannot take care of themselves AND be mothers. this leaves the job up to the men, who now need to feed not only themselves but their wives and their children, they need to protect them, lead them, because the women cannot. these actions require strength and determination, mental skill, quick thinking, etc., and these are the aspects that we see as virtuous in men, those who embody these characteristics are heroes. women on the other hand, since they cannot fight and the men are gone all day, have to be the ones to care for the family, for the household, they need to do the chores, they need to care for the kids and the elderly, and they need to hold the community together. women who fulfill their roles effectively, just as the men who fill theirs, are seen as virtuous, or at least were before feminists came along and ruined everything. women are happiest when they are caring for their kids and maintaining the household, when they are keeping social bonds strong, and it is the women who embody this that we see in the same light as we see the heroes. movies focusing on women dealing with struggles regarding these roles and rising to the challenge are some of the greatest movies out there, and their main characters the best women in media. and before anybody starts whining and complaining accusing me of saying "a woman's place is in the kitchen" or something of similar belief: yes and no. women are happy when caring for others, when maintaining a household, but women shouldnt be confined to just this, and they arent the only ones who should be doing chores. a woman may be most fulfilled if she uses her time to make her home look nice, but that doesnt mean the man is free from responsibility in cleaning up after himself.

[@theoneneo5024]

That scene in the lawyer's office actually makes me see her as privileged and entitled. She gets to blow off any criticism and has a worshipping fan telling her how awesome she is. Imagine if they switched her and the man, the point the writers' were trying to make would be much different.

[@AnthonyIlstonJones]

Actually, if they switched her with the man the whole show would have made more sense.

[@MrMisanthrope84]

She acts like Star Lord all the way through the first episode. Star Lord gets called an idiot and buffoon. She Hulk gets called stunning and brave.

[@brainrich1358]

Mad Men did the "fan" (Peter kissing ass to Don) better. He wants to be like Don but fails at every chance he tries. It's not until later in the show he buckles down and works on being Peter and not a Don clone.

[@Ravathiel]

I'm trying to figure out why some Goverment Agency hasn't busted in, trying to capture her after her "stunt" at the court office. Kamala saves a chick from a building, and was chased the entire time for it. all while Titania is... a Super Powered Influencer ?

[@synchaos9141]

Tldr Jen is what a karen sees herself in their worldview

[@Excelsior1937]

“Someone who drowns in 20 feet of water is no less dead than someone who drowns in 50 feet of water.” This is a quote I picked up from the social justice scene when I was still actively involved with it. It’s meant to be a lesson about not comparing pain and trauma because no matter who or where you are, life finds a way to be difficult and painful for you. That’s why Bruce’s horrifically tragic backstory didn’t stop me from empathizing with She-Hulk feeling pissed off about all the years of disrespect she went through… UNTIL she snapped at Bruce about how she’s gone through “infinitely more than you”. That is sheer disrespect no matter who you are saying it to, and the narrative seems to paint her as entirely in the right. Earth to She-Hulk: Don’t try to make pain into a fucking competition, especially not when that competition is one you’ve already lost.

[@coldstuff9784]

That's a good way of putting it, her outburst was crappy but I can personally understand her troubles. It's really lame to a lot of people but I experienced some trauma that makes me have a really strong reaction to things like catcalling. It's just disheartening to see it mocked to the ground as feminist whining.

[@Birthday888]

@@coldstuff9784 Tbf, I don't think the backlash would have been nearly as strong if she hadn't tried to claim that her experiences were far worst than Bruce's and that's why she could control her powers better. There were a variety of ways they could have addressed her problems, but they chose to demean the problems of someone driven to suicide by them. It's disgusting in every definition of the word, and if the situation had been reversed, you know everyone would have been in an upraor about it. And if the show had called Jen out on her assumptions on what Bruce's life was like, that would be another thing, but it pretty much backs her opinion to the letter.

[@haku8135]

With Jen it's more like she's laying on her back in 2 inches of water screaming "I'M SO FUCKING OPPRESSED YOU'RE ALL LUCKY I'M GOOD AT CONTROLLING MY INFINITE ANGER!" If your 20 feet of water is people saying you look attractive and your field of expertise (which she ISN'T an expert, she's totally incompetent as a lawyer, the writers ADMITTED they couldn't write legal scenes) being explained to you, then I'm just gonna put my foot on your head to keep you right at the bottom. Drown in it bitch, that's not even pain.

[@jeffreyhailey2941]

​@Birthday888 you guys really think those writers know the history of the Hulk?? You can tell they give a shit about the audience so whats makes us think they even KNOW what Bruce has been through as a character??

[@nesamdoom]

@@Birthday888 She was a well to do kid while he had to struggle with not being hunted because he might accidentally throw a tank through a building and kill innocents. A dude hitting on her isn't quite the same thing.

[@alienape3171]

It's like the mulan issue. She was amazing because of the things she overcame. Now she's born perfect. It's like they are afraid to show a woman starting as a weak.

[@BossyGerbasi]

For real, the animated first movie is one of my favorite Disney movies. The live action was absolute trash.

[@Rebacon]

Yes, and honestly that's infantilising. There's nothin "feminist" about putting other (male) characters down to make the boringly perfect, female main character appear stronger. Why can't they tell a story about a realistic, flawed human overcoming struggles, who just happens to be female?

[@Joemama72096]

I thought Mulan was solid honestly lol the music isn't bad

[@PotatoWithALaptop]

@@Joemama72096 compared to the original it is shit.

[@AutoSearPin]

Most girls are afraid of this… they just have to be liked and be perfect and they’re allergic to being inferior in any way, that’s why talking about their inferiorities pisses them off

[@NickNapoli]

“She-Hulk” proving that wine moms can’t write a tv show.

[@LordVulcan93]

How DARE you you assume their parental status.

[@spiffywolf2850]

Lmao!

[@TerrorFront.]

Yeah, well, like we already knew that

[@RAS_Squints]

You are giving them too much credit for actually being married

[@matthewhinkel6079]

*whine lol

[@ariamaddison257]

Hulk: “I was hunted by the military for years.” Jen-Hulk: “A man whistled at me once.”

[@kdb678able]

Hulk: "My abusive father murdered my mom in front of me when I was small child." She-Hulk: "Sometimes my co-workers don't listen to me."

[@georgeclooney6208]

And I had to kill him for it🧐

[@Era551]

@@kdb678able truly Jen had it much worse

[@Grimalken1969]

Yup, an unsolicited compliment by man. Way worse then hitting that last breaking point, and you put a gun in your mouth "and the big guy spits the bullet out."

[@ramixnudles7958]

@don't be surprised Reported, Unwanted content or spam.

[@AngryBoozer]

Worst thing this show did was perpetuate the mental trauma competition mentality. When someone tells you about their mental issues, you don’t try to 1-up them. They’re opening up to someone only to be told that it’s nothing, have they tried being mansplained to?!

[@edgelordleon5859]

Gee. It's almost like this is why you hire writers, not activists.

[@margarethmichelina5146]

And then I found out the director and the writer is the same person that gave us the cringe "I'M PICKLE RICKKK!!!!" meme

[@InternetMameluq]

Writers are activists. If a story doesn't change the way you see things it was a bad story. The reason this show sucks is because it's written by privileged burgers who've never encountered hardship in their life.

[@edgelordleon5859]

@@InternetMameluq You're partially right. But the idea of storytelling fundamentally is to engage and you can't engage an audience without nuance. Activists are more concerned with pushing messages, not telling nuanced stories, so they fixate on those messages first rather than crafting a story around those messages.

[@princessmarlena1359]

@@margarethmichelina5146 oh my God, seriously!? Well, makes sense…damn no talent writers.

[@InternetMameluq]

@@edgelordleon5859 I would agree, but I feel you're misappropriating the term activist. The people you're describing aren't activists, they're 'activists'. Meaning that they're Ideologues and propagandists. An activist cares about an issue enough to take action. When they see their actions have no effect, they must adapt, and when they fail to do so they cease to become activists. As you can see from 30 years of the same ineffective propaganda: they don't care, they just want attention, or are charletanins

[@KFP_Fanboy]

Jen tells Bruce Banner (who was raised in an abusive home, lost his lover, watched all his friends die, and got chased down by the government) that she has to control her anger infinitely more than him just because she is a woman. This is a reference to the fact that Marvel writers suck now.

[@thelastmotel]

While Jen clearly grew up in a supportive, loving home... the total opposite to Bruce's childhood.

[@nboy7]

Its funny how these woke liberal women who have all been raised by rich parents in neighbourhoods isolated from the chaos their families cause in the first place, think that they have lived through so much hardship and have been constantly victimised. Its truely baffling that they dont get called out for this, the US is really completed screwed up right now.

[@trissi4468]

Don't forget how he watched his dad killing his mum.

[@rumo510]

Or how he was wrongly incarcerated and forced to basically murder people for sport.

[@clogs4956]

In fact, I have problems as a woman in controlling my anger when I see half-arsed Woke rubbish ruining my decades of Marvel (and DC) comics reading.

[@TruOnyxfire]

Don't forget, when Bruce first turns into the Hulk, he's very caveman-ish looking, very crude features, even monstrous. When Jennifer turns into She Hulk, she, apparently, turns into a super-model, more attractive in every possible aspect. Her hair even changes it's very style, from short and curly to long, wavy and luxurious. How lucky for her. And lets look at that rock tossing scene, Bruce uses a flick of his wrist, she uses a shot-put, full arm throw. Not the same strength.

[@eplcmeme420]

Exactly. I swear to god when will they learn to write a woman without focusing on the fact that’s she’s a woman and sexualising her.

[@josmith1815]

@@eplcmeme420 waman WANT to be sexualised. As much as possible. How else can be they keep getting the free ride they get at men's expense.

[@weirdguy1495]

While I will agree most of the time about the critiques of this show, the comics made her look like a supermodel in contrast to Bruce from the start.

[@TheRR3D]

It was written by a fat girl that’s why that ended up happening.

[@MrMarkman12345]

Just like in the comics

[@patricklewis9787]

I like how you use these kinds of shows as what not to do instead of bashing it. Makes it way more entertaining and educational then just ripping it to pieces

[@osmanyousif7849]

You forgot one more “Marvel Rule”: 6. A woman can never be at fault for anything, nor say it herself. Edit: I’m actually referring to when a protagonist gets supposedly beaten by the antagonist in the end of the second act of movies/tv/video games, leading for antagonist to immobilize protagonist, while they carry out their evil plan. To which the protagonist is left sulking, and says, “I failed, and it’s all my fault.”, because they could’ve done something to prevent the conflict. Therefore, the protagonist is on the verge of giving up, believing that the antagonist has already won. But it’s not until they get some motivation to realize that it’s not too late, and begin to use their head to figure out a way to free themselves and take on the antagonist in a smarter fashion. But unfortunately today, that will require thinking and creative thought. Something that movie-makers today don’t have.

[@LegacyComics100]

Women good, even when women bad, women good.

[@alexh6767]

Wanda?

[@cocoduck7745]

weird that's the rule of thumb for twitter and reddit

[@gianna526]

indeed, women are always perfect no matter what. I actually had this EXTREMELY weird experience in Walmart the other day. I was just walking down the aisle, and I bumped into this guy, he looked to be in his 20s or something. And it was my fault, I wasn't looking where I was going and he was just standing there. I apologized, and he looked me square in the face and said "It's not your fault, you're a girl." and he just marched off, and started aggressively texting on his phone. I have no idea what that was about, and I'm still confused about it.

[@Justmonika6969]

@@alexh6767 They constantly keep validating her as a misunderstood hero.

[@killerecho]

The irony is, in this age of conflicted, sympathetic villains, the protagonists are written exactly like classic baddies, i.e. toxic, abusive, self righteous, and vengeful toward the world for refusing to acknowledge their greatness.

[@LeonardTavast]

Honk World is a perpetual carneval where up is down and evil is good. It's all a constant mindless subversion; a teenage rebellion with no end in sight. It doesn't create good art and it doesn't make society better; it's only sowing division and confusion.

[@killerecho]

@Giovanni Doria I don't give the writers any credit. The reversal is not intentional. They genuinely think these lead characters are inspiring, heroic, and relatable when they actually come off as entitled narcissists. Hence the irony. But it's a window into how they think, especially when you consider a lot of these Mary Sue characters are just stand-ins for the writer's own ego vicariously living out their daydreams and fantasies.

[@grambo4436]

Dont forget anti-heroes as well. They too are conflictes, sympathetic, well written and hated by heroes like that.

[@ilovecokeslurpees]

It's because the writers are bad people so that is all they know how to write.

[@judas1213]

@Giovanni Doria It causes me actual mental anguish knowing how accurate this checklist is... I want to go back to when movies were movies and not Twitter posts in 3D. 🤢

[@alainagray45]

It gets me so mad as a woman to see these shows and movies trying so hard to lift us up by putting men down. It makes us look so petty. There are struggles girls go through that boys won’t understand, and there are struggles boys go through that girls won’t understand. It seems like these marvel movies can’t understand the idea of equality. Women being absolutely perfect while the men are portrayed as idiots is NOT equality. It’s offensive that the writers feel the need to do this. If they want to show a strong woman, then don’t bring the men down. Bring the woman up in a way that doesn’t feel forced or entitled or arrogant. Anyways my rant lol

[@Dareyouhow]

Even besides the pettiness of it it nearly reinforces the opposite... if they have to create such artificial wins for a woman, a female character with so little credibility for why she's good at things all anybody thinks when they watch it is what a load of BS. It implies you can't naturally have a strong female protagonists without warping the plot and reality to fit that narrative. It needs to exist naturally within the world, not have a fictitious world built around it.

[@scamscaman9682]

if i may ask, is natasha romanov someone who fits the description of "strong woman"?

[@Clearlyclynn]

You couldn’t have said it better!

[@joseCalderon1976]

I totally agree with you as a "man". I remember watching Ripley in Alien and Aliens kick ass and never once did I think about her gender. Those were the good old days. Well after Alien 3 came along and all the other stupid movies about the the Alien franchise 😂

[@Dareyouhow]

@@scamscaman9682 Honestly I'm not very familiar with the character, I did see black widow but I remember very little of it. I know I enjoyed it though so I would hazard a guess at yes, certainly moreso than this she hulk

[@aspiringjoker2883]

"I control my anger infinitely more than you!" She says to Hulk as she loses her temper.

[@RealDrDoom]

Are we forgetting that Hulk spent years of his life being hunted down like an animal by Ross, living in fear of turning into the Hulk around civilians, and even tried off-ing himself multiple times. I find it laughable for her to use "being a woman" as an excuse for her to be automatically good at controlling her anger. There was zero character development. There are so many ways they could've conveyed the same message in a much more powerful manner

[@iconic8986]

Apparently the writers forgot about Bruce’s history and that somehow experiencing “cat-calling” is way worse in any shape or form than of the pain Bruce has experience.

[@trevorknight9704]

How she controls her anger is completely contradicted by the scene outside the bar.

[@Captainval28]

You do know women experience rape, domestic abuse, and get catcalled a lot plus it’s only the first two episode ever calling it a bad show based on the first ever episode all because of your sensitive feelings over what you do to women being highlighted in a show about a women is just stupid

[@overtimeworker59]

@@Captainval28 yeah sure but it's still lazy and generic reasoning. They could've done a much better reasoning for she-hulk's rage. It could be better but for now it's not looking good.

[@Captainval28]

@@overtimeworker59 I’ve not watched it so I don’t know the reason but I do know that people shouldn’t be angry at it including the catcalling part esspecialy given it’s from the perspective of a women

[@lucuador1992]

She really compared catcalling and mansplaining to the horrible trauma that Banner dealt with.....and says that she has it worse??? I want to know what was on the writer's mind when they decided that was a good line

[@dizzyheads]

@hkh4+fillys play And even then people who hasn't experienced trauma pretty sure know whatever Bruce went through (Which is countless stuff) Is significantly worse than that

[@eef_04]

I mean just existing as a woman can be traumatic/scarring. But yeah comparing (actual) trauma is always weird imo, no matter what the trauma is

[@docal2]

@@eef_04 because just existing as a man can never be traumatic/scarring, right?

[@eef_04]

@@docal2 if you wanna pretend I said some shit like that, so you can get mad, go ahead LMAO 💀💀 But for the record, I DO think that just existing as a man can be traumatizing/scarring. It’s just that it’s an oppression issue when it comes to women, and usually a “toxic masculinity” related issue when it comes to men

[@sheabenitez8897]

@@eef_04 how tf is it traumatic to exist as a women ? Tf r u talking about 😂😂

[@headcrabo..2301]

It’s so weird for she-hulk to act this insufferable, in the comics she was SO close with Bruce especially when he needed a place to stay away from his abusive father and the fact that he also saves her life by using his own blood because of a lack of options. But in this garbage she became hulk because SHE is a hero and is for some reason incredibly spiteful and self-conceited… Look how they massacred my girl!

[@notyou2353]

Wow. Ruined a healthy and close, nonsexual, relationship between a man and a woman. Albeit it's fictional, but still. Can't even have a story of healthy intergender relationships with some people.

[@foolishgenius]

Well they took a page out of the Halo TV show book they probably didn't even look at the source material

[@cicatrace]

@@foolishgenius Halo wasn't that bad, kinda happy they try to make a show out of it at all. This is THE shooter that made me a fan of shooters along with cs 1.6. But yeah the storyline is very different. I never had the feeling Cortana was more than just an AI and a hologram while playing the video games. And there was no humans living amongst the covenants 🤣

[@MrWeedCat7070]

We know. 😣 Imagine. They just shit smeer these characters off on incompetent writers.

[@danielcobia7818]

It sucks that they've ruined well written comic characters. Cap Marvel and now She-Hulk were both written way WAY better in the comics than this garbage. I mean, you just pointed out some of the things that were in the comics that went completely disregarded by the writers of the show that would have improved it by at least one parsec.

[@thomaspetrucka9173]

She gets angry while talking about controlling her emotions. It’s a classic “hero rejects the call” setup. Imagine the power of that moment had she turned into she-hulk while ranting, or hiding it and having it come out later. The biggest problem with the character is that she’s not allowed to be wrong about herself or the world, and therefore does and learns nothing! But this comments section knows all that. 😂 Guess I need to take my own advice.

[@bloodrunsclear]

The insurmountable problem with modern writing: how to make people victims without ever challenging them

[@thomridgeway1438]

Ah you are so wrong! These woke apologists are great at writing victimhood, but actual rounded, interesting characterisation based on human experience ... never!

[@bloodrunsclear]

@Wise Acres If you think religion doesn't involve challenges or actual victimhood you need to do more research

[@bloodrunsclear]

@@thomridgeway1438 I'd say it was wasted effort, but there's no effort involved.

[@metal6948]

@@thomridgeway1438 You use the word woke and your argument falls apart. You sound like someone’s drunk uncle dude

[@bloodrunsclear]

@Wise Acres Everyone worships something.

[@michaeldexter2544]

So, let me get this straight: Bruce grew up with an abusive father, spent *years* on the run from a government that was trying *very* hard to kill him, lived in terror that if he ever lost control literally *thousands* of people might die, and was so distraught by all of this that he tried to kill himself on multiple occasions -- but Jennifer thinks that she's had an infinitely worse time of it than he has? *REALLY*?!

[@bartudundar3193]

Bro. You dont get it bro. Like once a man catcalled her, its basically the same thing.

[@Wi11-doger]

@@bartudundar3193 that made me laugh

[@tioraytm]

Hahaha. 🔥🎯👍🤠

[@limpa756]

The funniest part is a man wouldn’t cat call her

[@ii-wt7jq]

@@limpa756 Tatiana is a good looking girl and you know it. If you feel the need to insult an actor's appearance over bad writing which is done by guess who, The Writers, you need some help.

[@alexalexalex797]

This “tv-show” is protected by the magical shield of “If you dont like it, you hate women!”

[@Zodroo_Tint]

They using the race card too not sure why.

[@kikasshows8132]

Alex Alex Alex….you have a good f***g point :3

[@andrewgreeb916]

Can we start attacking the incompetence of the writers and producing studio? They had every opportunity to do it better.

[@warofnoise5394]

same with Prey

[@kikasshows8132]

@@andrewgreeb916 Would like to say that we can but what is the point. All we have left is learn from these mistakes, and make something better :3

[@Scuva5608]

Whats so funny is that what you said about the initial car crash and Bruce having to give Jennifer a blood transfusion is what actually happened in the comics. This show was totally a miss. Great review as always! Edit: The character is so much better in the comics. She's a nobody, no one respects her, she has no friends, and nobody's into her. But when she becomes She-Hulk, everyone wants to know her. While Bruce sees the hulk as a sort of parasite, Jen sees it as a savior for her.

[@LeAndre_McCoy]

You just described the show

[@Scuva5608]

@@LeAndre_McCoy Not exactly. In the show Jen had friends, those guys outside the bar were into her, and she didn't want to be hulk at first so...

[@xminusone1]

Yeah but the those who wrote the serie know She-Hulk INFINETLY MORE THAN YOU.

[@jollycooperation7446]

"Don't try to mansplain my current situation with these new found abilities I posses because you have no idea what it's like." She basically said to the only person in the world who can help her control her current circumstance. Marvel is better off scrapping the show in its entirety.

[@DGTHO]

Not at all what she said, she pointed out that the things he's training her for dont' apply. she doesn't have intense anger issues, decades of unaddressed trauma, doesn't want to be a super hero, and most importantly has no alter ego that goes crazy. he's an expert of the science involving the hulk, but not...mental health.

[@kingslayer447]

@@DGTHO he is a master at controlling the mental health problems of becoming a Hulk and how every other facet of life impacts the Hulk. You know..coz she was about to kill 3 men who cat-called her....coz she is so level headed lol poor excuse mate.

[@DGTHO]

@@kingslayer447 you really ting her shouting is the same as attempted murder let's not even discuss the fact that she was just in a car crash, blacked out, in an area, she doesn't know and now dudes she doesn't know are following her. Her reaction isn't anger problems, it's how a person reacts.

[@Graciashauf]

Don't worry you can still play stock puts on AMZN before rings of power releases because apparently how it does will determine the companies streaming future (not my words) load the puts

[@NormanReaddis]

The thing is how the west is trying elevate the women like Korea and Japan are doing but never fully understood how they do it. Korea and Japan had more female leads than males but they never condecend the male and still submissive and feminine to their core. The west is doing "all men bad women did it better" approach the metoo style. They want to bank on the Korean/Japan trend the way they see it with western woke sensibilities.

[@adamgillespie3393]

You cannot be an underdog and the winner at the SAME time. Their needs to be a journey between the two, that's the fundamental flaw in her character development.

[@pleasestopsayingliterally2572]

Bingo

[@giornikitop5373]

@@jameslewis2132 maybe when they stop believing they can do anything just because they are women, then men will stop.

[@alal2192]

It feels like the writer couldnt fully express everything

[@jameslewis2132]

@@giornikitop5373 but they can.... soooo

[@tpruss97]

that's the issue with most shows like she-hulk, mulan, etc. they skip the journey that made us like them and understand them, and instead go straight to the destination expecting everyone to be happy.

[@Arkeli5]

What makes me laugh most about all of this stuff, is how they blame toxic fans when things don't go well. You're a new show, you don't have any fans. Unless you consider the fans of Marvel your fans, in which case maybe don't bulldoze all of their favourite characters that made them fans in the first place. In the words of Tony Stark, "Not a great plan."

[@Deathend]

"People love this character and their story. Let's take said character and re-write their story to fit our political agenda!" -later- "Why don't these people like our story? They said they like the character.. They don't like our version of the story? That's discrimination!!!" Like bruh

[@jcekap9522]

@@_ripVanWinkle_ Really. Say more. I'm interested to hear this. I thought people exaggerated your kind's existence.

[@jaypaul15]

@@_ripVanWinkle_ you do realise that even women are disliking this show and a big part of the criticism is how unlikable, mean and insufferable the main character is? And none of that has a thing to do with her gender.

[@jcekap9522]

@@_ripVanWinkle_ Uh Huh. Go on.

[@jcekap9522]

What happened to Seus ? It was entertaining.

[@tristandaries1129]

That last scene could have been interesting, Bruce COULD have calmly explained all the trauma he’s been through, but no, losing you mother and then girlfriend, and killing your father while the world ostracises and hates you is nothing compared to being cat called

[@HUMAN-fq5ff]

Notice how in Daredevil not once does any character tell Matt that he has "will power and resilience." Yet pretty much any person who’s watched the show will tell you that he’s strong willed and has hardcore resilience, because we have seen him get beaten to an inch of his life numerous times, only to get back up and go fighting the same people who nearly killed him.

[@bigphrogboi4817]

They're about to retcon the whole daredevil show by cheesing him up in she-hulk though 😭

[@markd9803]

Great example of “show, don’t tell.” He’s tough, resilient and badass, because you see him being tough, resilient and a badass.

[@tomigun5180]

@@bigphrogboi4817 Insecure women are intimidated by a fictional character. :)

[@remy12]

The Netflix daredevil series is marvels best work and I don't see anything coming close anytime soon.

[@MrMisanthrope84]

@@remy12 never gonna happen on Disney's watch.

[@tinglemccringleberry8899]

The alarming thing is how many people read that script and was like “yeah ok no problems here looks good”

[@MrTridac]

It's okay when women do it.

[@NoName-kg4uy]

Yeah they prob didnt care anymore. Just a quick cash grab for them.

[@aliensconfirmed3498]

Majority of the people (largely Americans) were in fact calling it good. Goes on to show how far we have fallen, specially America.

[@Denji2006]

That's the problem with writing "political first". If your chain of command are all indoctrinated, all you need to do is meet the quota list and you'll get anything green-lit. Not at all different from religious propaganda.

[@candyman9635]

@@aliensconfirmed3498 Stupid show for stupid people.

[@Realandauthentic]

I love how they talk about Women overcoming the odds and all that, but NEVER actually show them growing to beat the odds, just them immediately being a Mary Sue type character.

[@masterodisguise2983]

I swear, the people who come up with this *shit* has some sort of NPD

[@francescoghizzo]

A lot of good female characters in the 70's and 80's were really well written, they were just human being thrust into a difficult situation by life and had to learn and adapt fast to survive. Think about Sarah Connor, a damsel in distress in the first Terminator who turns into a real badass by the start of the second movie, just by training alone. Or think about Ripley, just a common spaceship crew member by the first movie, who gains courage and skill by fighting the first alien and uses all these knowledge about the Xenomorph behavior to lead a whole team of space marines in the second movie. And I could go on and on, citing Laurie from Halloween, Nancy from Nightmare on Elm Street... I surely can't understand: - How did feminists come up with the idea that in the past there were no female leads? Have they ever watched a classic movie in their life? - How did writers came up with the idea that the only way for a woman to shine is writing all the men around her as incompetent and dumb @ssh0les? - Do writers really think that a Mary Sue character, with no real struggle, is going to be received favorably and found interesting by the audience? - Do writers really think that the only way, the only way to write female characters into a movie or tv show is changing the sex of established male characters? Why not writing a new story from scratch with a female character as its lead?

[@sorrydudebros]

It's not even THAT well written. They're never even going to show "the odds" in the first place without having them get ABSOLUTELY DESTROYED 3 seconds later in some boring predictable scene.

[@Michael-dj6pd]

exactly like the latest predator movie

[@oldben1800]

yeup....that is the creativity of shows now...just talking about doing things. perfect metaphor for our era of humanity tbh

[@abrarkadabrar7829]

I'm not even mad at the gender representation in the show. That's been beaten to the ground by MANY people already. It happened. It's part of Marvel universe already. I'm just impressed and relieved that there can be people like you who can confident not only say "This can be done better", but actually go into possibilities for improvement in proper writing characters and stories. Everyone spends so much time saying that something sucks, it takes away from the point of it needing improvement. People can tell why it sucks, but can't tell HOW it can be improved. So really I appreciate you going into detail of, even if it's not word for word a retelling of the original comics, how the show could have been written and presented better. Kudos to you, sir.

[@heraldofwar]

Comics She Hulk = Fun, flirty, light hearted and likeable. M SHE U She Hulk = Miserable, angry, snarky and a narcissist.

[@welshcrusade1562]

M She U. nice

[@TheMeta141]

(sigh) i miss ACTUAL Jennifer Walters, she was so fun

[@predator7939]

This literally shows how female characters have massively degraded over recent years. What an absolute disgrace.

[@joshchapman7384]

I love how she gets all high and mighty about controlling her anger but is barely controlling her anger at that moment. Then she has the gall to say that she is infinitely better than Bruce at it. A character who's ENTIRE story arc is about controlling his anger.

[@Stopsign32v]

Guuuuuuuuuuuuurl POWER!!!!!!!! YEA!

[@triplemoyagames4195]

Also forgetting all the stuff he went through in the Hulk Movie. Like being hunted down by the military like a dog. Or the fact he was ABUSED by his father

[@shisah5544]

@@triplemoyagames4195 also the fact that he watched his friend die saving the universe- someone he’s still mourning over in this series, he lost years of his life stuck as the hulk until Thor found him, and all the pairs of stretched out pants he has to fold and iron for the rest of his life. He’s also probably now tasked with leading the new avengers as seen in Shang chi which is incredibly stressful; how can she even think catcalling is on par with what Bruce has been through, not even considering the abuse he went through as a kid. This show is tone deaf

[@keiondarby9869]

thats literally why she can control her anger easier/better, because she hasnt gone through literal trauma yet so its gonna be a lot harder for bruce to control himself

[@reddvortex7554]

@@keiondarby9869 nope wrong idea. When faced with traumatic events that entices great amounts of anger Bruce would beat her infinitely as what she just said. It is portrayed that she can control her anger better but the reason for that is because she is only angry at everyday things/tiny problems. Compared to what Bruce has gone through

[@jarrettzeller4246]

The writers tried so hard to make women look awesome in this show that they actually did the opposite

[@oftenseen22]

Which is interesting considering the fact that it looks like the creative team for the show are women. I guess they can't make themselves look awesome.

[@wayneshobbygallery]

@@oftenseen22 Which is exactly the irony in on itself. These female writers they hired had a specific agenda & now they revealed their true colours via this series, which is unfortunate... I sure hope Marvel Studios would be very careful next time when finding female writers for female-led MCU projects. The Ms. Marvel series & Black Widow throughout The Infinity Saga are good examples of how female-led characters should be written.

[@Adamkalb1]

@@oftenseen22 They could do that if they cared about catering to the audience for which they were hired to write, which is not only women, but the Marvel fanbase at large which _just so happens to include_ women and non-binary people. Until they decided "Nah, let's have none of that and see how the reception turns out! We have the same superpower in real life as She-Hulk, which is using our gender as a shield from criticism when we do not do our jobs correctly, and using systemic sexism to act like we have it worse than Bruce Banner and disregard all of the torture and troubles with which he has dealt instead of copying any of that character development with his cousin Jennifer Walters. Ha! No one can criticize us openly because that would be sexist!"

[@JuanThaSilva]

They over complicate and was stuck inside their Leftist agenda. That’s what they did.

[@jimmy22334]

It really is funny. The women showrunners tried to make a women positive show but actually embarrassed themselves for everyone to see. It's amazing.

[@MS-715-7Y]

A blood transfusion to save her life was the original plot from Marvel. Bruce's cousin was seriously injured, and only his blood was compatible enough to save her life in time. But, the usual premise behind all successful "super heroes" is that the hero first is broken down and helpless for a while, only to push back against all odds and overcome the obstacle that's holding them down. It is under such extreme circumstances that heroes are born. Even most super villains had gone through some serious and nearly fatal life crises, before becoming super powered. Even Kill Bill's Uma Thurman underwent such difficulties, moments of weakness, helplessness, and critical training from a at least two great men in helping her succeed. And none of that assistance diminished Beatrice's acts of courage, fighting spirit and survival skills.

[@TheImapotato]

and since Kill Bill's audience was predominantly men, almost all of us, when she saw her child said "You rotten S.O.B. I hope she kills you slowly for this"

[@Mutiilated_remains]

As a woman, instead of marvel being like “heres the female version of a male character” we should actually get a character than hasn’t already been introduced. They should add more characters like Black Widow and Gamora if they want actually interesting characters. Yet they kill off their best female characters…

[@brendanhogan2002]

Scarlett Witch!

[@MrSamulai]

Although I'd like to see them try and introduce a male version of Black Widow.

[@chrisbarrett2117]

Except she hulk has decades of comics.

[@supermajesticman3898]

I agree but also that has nothing to do with the show, She-Hulk was made in 1980, and the show has been pretty comic accurate.

[@lukesmitha2358]

@@MrSamulai basically Hawkeye

[@chrisdaniel1998]

How dare a man (who's entire comic identity is dealing with having to suppress his emotions) try to talk about dealing with his problems to a woman. I'm really glad this show is sending the right messages to its viewers

[@pizzapower3166]

IKR. This isn't encouraging unity. It encouraging "us VS. them".

[@chrisdaniel1998]

@@pizzapower3166 Exactly! Literally the opposite of equality

[@jahronwilliams5003]

It’s always going to be men vs women, until the end of time

[@pizzapower3166]

@@jahronwilliams5003 Yeah. But, here's the thing. It shouldn't. It's not that there's nothing we can do about it, it's that media like this is fueling that when it shouldn't.

[@tcrijwanachoudhury]

@@jahronwilliams5003 that's crazy, we literally need each other lmao

[@cryptojihadi265]

When your goal isn't to tell a story, but to preach condemnation of one gender while lionizing the other, THIS is what you get.

[@ronhargrove1176]

I don’t understand why men haven’t given up on women yet I can’t see myself showing respect and love to a group of individuals who don’t show the same majority of women have this mindset yet men still chase after them why it’s not worth it y’all simp for them you will never see a women simping for men unless that wall is coming then it’s shaming tactics they show you every day they don’t fuck with you let them hoes be

[@birdingup1147]

lionize for those who dont know what it means (i didn't): give a lot of public attention and approval to (someone); treat as a celebrity.

[@luislaplume8261]

Dear Crypto Jihadi, Wait til you see the Woke, Cancel Culture, Social Justice Warrior Liberal TV season this month. You ain't seen nothing yet! Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!

[@fergusflanagan7823]

Its almost like Marvel doesn't realise the main percentage of its fans are men.

[@abby9448]

@@fergusflanagan7823 i get what you mean but thats not really relevant. even if it was most women it still wouldnt be okay yk?

[@TheScottishMutt]

Thanks for the write-up; this actually saved me from watching. At first I was curious how the hell they were going to create another Hulk and I wanted to watch the first episode purely for that. Those first two points are right on the money: even if these things are super common and everybody watching this show have experienced it, you still have to show it to the audience so that everyone's on the same page. This is like the opposite of Chekhov's gun: everyone knows somebody is going to die in this scene, but nobody in the audience knows how and they're speculating left and right - then the character ends up getting shot from a mysterious sniper that's sitting off-screen that was never seen beforehand.

[@hunterolaughlin]

Chekhov’s Gun. I see another TV Tropes fan as I am.

[@barenheld9239]

Jessica Jones and Karen Page are great examples of female marvel characters. They go through hell. They make mistakes. They hurt people. They cry. They drink a lot. They‘re humans in this crazy universere where people with powers actually exists. And they still try to be good. To make a difference. Female characters work. But not like this…

[@Razordreamz]

Jessica Jones I thought was done well. Not a perfect character, a character with deep flaws but always has the audience on her side.

[@margarethmichelina5146]

Thank God, Jessica Jones show existed before the " Mary Sue Strong Female Character who's selfish and arrogant" era came. Man, even Season 2 Jessica Jones show is still better than this eventhough they're butchering Trish's character.

[@TheKrensada]

And of course it's cancelled.

[@user-is7xs1mr9y]

I also liked Agent Carter. I know it wasn't a perfect show, but it made sense that she was treated so poorly at the beginning by her male colleagues, it was the 1940's after all. She had more reasons to feel like a victim, but she didn't, she proved she was capable and earned respect. It's a shame it got cancelled as well, but at least she ended up with Cap so there's that.

[@judas1213]

Stone cold facts.

[@SPARTANTROOPER]

I'm amazed that every writer who makes a "strong female character" fails to realise that strength comes from adversity. But none of their characters ever have to struggle or suffer for anything and are just naturally flawless at everything they try.

[@Jamoni1]

They honestly believe that just being a woman means they've faced more adversity than even the most tragic man.

[@TakeHit0]

They just suck as writers. Look at overlord or one punch man. The main characters are OP right from the start but they make the show work with good writing.

[@austin842]

Zoomers are soo entitled and sheltered they lost most of their logical thinking skills. We have had awesome badass and WELL WRITTEN females for years until recently. Sarah Connors, little girl from kick ass, OG princess Leah etc etc

[@pinionification]

Hmm... yeah, the most recent examples I can think of are Fury Road and Atomic Blonde... not exactly "new" movies...

[@josephcoon5809]

Sarah Connor, Ellen Ripley, Leeloo… Weird how the Boomer Generation wrote far better strong female characters and Gen-X LOVED them. Seems like the problem is Gen-Y and Gen-Z…

[@Unserioussam328]

"I can control my anger" She says to a man who's lost his wife, watched friends die, saw a mad titan slay half the universe and fought to bring them back. Who had to struggle for years with what he thought was a demon and a curse, who had to see fear in his own friends' eyes whenever he had even the slightest inconvenience as everyone was utterly terrified of the unstoppable unreasoning force that is HULK. But yeah ok. I'm sure it's almost equivocal to say that catcalls and being mansplained are just as bad. Mhm. FUCK I hate that scene so much.

[@collenrung5009]

We all do.

[@mudkipfan2420]

No need to hate the scene Hate the writer

[@Adamkalb1]

I hate all of this false equivalency that tries to compare generalized minor acts of misogyny to loads of personal trauma and loss. Catcalling is small potatoes compared to Bruce Banner losing his family and being experimented on in a government facility to be turned into a mutant green monster he does not want to be! Now I feel like turning into Hulk or She-Hulk or They-Hulk! or whatever pronoun-Hulk labels are still available for me to take.

[@nesamdoom]

@@Adamkalb1 it's 2023 and I still am not throwing a fit if a woman calls me 'dear' as an affectation to a sentence, so I prolly should get hulk powers before Jen.

[@dominiquejones3805]

He tried 2 bring Natasha back but couldn't & sacrificed his arm

[@Wolffman109]

Alongside Drinker's proposed changes, another thing that could make the opening scene even better is if Dennis brings up a time Jennifer WAS offered a big court case, only to massively screw it up somehow, which caused a lot of problems for the firm and caused Jennifer to get demoted to where she is at this point, lending a sense of credibility to Dennis shutting her down.

[@garintj1547]

I absolutely love how she gets angry at Bruce whilst describing that she's good at controlling her anger.

[@aisac21]

Irony at its finest. Not sure if the writers meant to do this to only have her realize her silliness later in the series, adding to her character complexity as someone else here stated in the comments ( I doubt it as well), or they just went for it because of the humor of the irony itself... ..anyway....go away now....:)

[@slowemm]

Exactly its really the writers clowning

[@clkgtr12]

@@aisac21 you're overestimating the writers

[@jaredtexter4440]

Sounds stunning and brave to me I don't want canceled 😂😂😂

[@albertovalcarenghi350]

Leaving aside the guys that could have been killed outside the bar, thanks to how good she is in controlling her anger. This show is delusional BS

[@cragre28]

That scene where she lectures Bruce about how hard it is to be her every day with cat calls, men who tell her what to do, and being almost murdered every day, WTF, made me want to punch the TV. Bruce has been literally hunted for decades by the military and others so they cage him or make a weapon that would cost millions of lives if they succeeded. He literally lived in squalor in India and still risked getting exposed to Ross so that he could provide life saving medical care for poor people. He got so tired of trying to control the other guy, he tried to kill himself by shooting himself in the head, but the Hulk spit the bullet out. He was about to destroy a city in Africa and kill thousands just because someone got into his head and made him mad. He literally helped design the Hulkbuster to stop or kill himself just in case. At the end of Age of Ultron, even though he had met Natasha and was in love, he knew that he was too dangerous to stay on Earth, so he sent the Hulk to space. Then he was forced to live as the Hulk for 2 years straight and was a slave to a warlord who forced him to fight people day after day to the death, or be killed himself. Then when he got the chance to be a real hero as Hulk, he failed and got beaten easily by Thanos. When he finally got back to earth and was able turn back to Bruce, he wasn't able to stop Cull Obsidian and become the Hulk, that was about kill one of his best friends. Then he failed as Bruce Banner in the Hulkbuster to stop Thanos again. When he gave humanity a second chance, he almost lost his arm and lost Natasha for good. Now he's stuck with this witch who acts like she has no idea what he has been through, and maybe Bruce hasn't told her, but she should know as family at least part of it. But no, men whistling at you is so hard to deal with, f the patriarchy.

[@DarenKnighty71]

W reply

[@CPT_B]

this comment deserves more likes

[@G.N.F462]

That always seems odd to me that Bruce wouldn’t of told her all the things he has to go through. But if he did tell her, that just make her look like a terrible person

[@UnlinearX]

All true, however i think it was worked out by smarty pants geeks that Hulk was lost on war world for closer to hundreds of years if not more, due to the time dilation. Depends on when you think he got there.

[@Patrick3183]

Lol nobody is cat calling that dog. She is not pretty.

[@PronounceGaming]

Not that I agree with the scene existing in the first place, but off the top of my head Jennifer could've cited the fact that she's had to defend murderers, rapists, and pedophiles despite how angry and disgusted she felt towards them, which would've been a far better example of her alleged control over her temper than what was written. The only conclusion I can reach is that the writer of the show was never cat-called in her life, hates men, and is using this show to get payback.

[@ctc-ml2ry]

u snappin❤‍🔥❤‍🔥

[@AlwaysW175x2]

Then it's the job she chose

[@TOBY-jy7bz]

@@lizw5587 As far as I know he only defends good people

[@Pwnsweet]

This is probably more accurate than you think

[@nolandavis1129]

But they can’t do that! Because then we would actually sympathize and relate to her and apparently that’s not what they were going for.

[@beatzdyer]

The biggest problem with "The Message" is that it's not a bad message. It's just portrayed in such a bad way that it undermines and mocks everything it's trying to say

[@lupuscorvus841]

Your description of how She-Hulk became She-Hulk is exactly what happened in the comics, except for the fact that she took it quite well and had a very positive attitude about now having the power to help others and EMPOWERED to be self-less. She even consoled Bruce by saying that he made the right decision and tried to convince him that his powers aren't a curse but an opportunity to make a positive difference in the world...ya know...like a hero...

[@Zay-e5p]

Honestly this is an amazing concept. Not only would this make her likable to both men and women but she’d be relatable as well….I love her design as a character and I’d love for her to be a popular character but oof

[@sarkastodon30]

I think it was intentional by CD by describing the OG comic origin story as the logical better approach.

[@thomasconza1167]

I have the very first issue of the original She Hulk. The alternate version is exactly how she became She Hulk.She was shot down in the street by a group of thugs, and the only way Banner could save her was with a hastily constructed blood transfusion.

[@RanMouri82]

In other words, a *good* kind of empowerment. However, feminists don't actually feel empowered because they're desperately trying to prove they're better than men.

[@randompoorlydrawndragon3076]

Wow, an actual human being, not a "woman" not a "man", just someone that actually cares for another, *wonder when we can get that kind of hero*

[@ung0dly467]

I believe there's two different types of terrible writing. Terrible writing because you're inexperienced, which, I feel, is excusable. And terrible writing because you tried to make something political/controversial and shove it down our throats like it's a new hot button issue that hasn't been beaten to death many times over.

[@collenrung5009]

Yeah, right on!!! So true that is. This is the inexcusable form of writing, shit slapped psychobabble.

[@bucketofsunshine6366]

Agreed. And as an author who used to be semi-woke, I cringe far more at my shitty (though minor) attempts to SJW than at my inexperienced writing whenever I go back to read through my old stuff.

[@Kyleplaysgames567]

Exactly. If you try to please everyone you will end up pleasing no one.

[@nebulous9280]

Inexperienced Writing is just that. Everyone has to learn somehow, and the only way to write good stories is to write some bad ones first and learn from your mistakes. These people either have little experience and are trying to shove politics down our throats, or they're inexperienced and see criticism of their work as criticism of the ideas they thoughtlessly spew out, and REFUSE to learn.

[@jneumy566]

And some shows like this, Rings of Power, and Velma somehow manage to do both to perfection.

[@andrewhezekiahdaniel]

"Show don't tell." Like so many MCU films and shows - particularly those with female leads - the writers failed to do this over and over again.

[@TheMeta141]

atleast they have enough self realisation to know what kind of character they're writing so they have to tell us over and over again how "good" and "kind" they are

[@Magneticlaw]

Ah, yes, few things cry "amateur writing" more than the time- worn info dump.

[@Shawn6751]

Disney is constantly being fed money, maybe Winnie The Pooh is probably the wake up that they need.

[@Alakazzam09]

If you want a really stark contrast in visual story telling check out the old Incredible Hulk tv show. Sure, it's campy, but the visual story telling is top notch. The use of shadow and light, the low angles when Hulk is on screen, the green glow in Banners eyes when SHTF. It's a nice palate cleanser right now.

[@chrystaltemple4818]

What’s sad is how little Jen cares for her cousin and all the pain he’s been through.

[@calvinwilson3617]

I love that she talks about how she is always talked down to about her expertise, to the guy who is literally trying to provide his expertise to someone who has never had any

[@scottschroeder4920]

@don't be surprised So… now spammers are adding replies to the comment they’re spamming…

[@nigielschroeder3510]

But thats the thing, she doesnt want Bruce's expertise, she wants to go back to being a lawyer. She's trying to prove that she controls her emotions every day

[@jamesgordon177]

@@nigielschroeder3510 ok Karen aka Darren

[@nigielschroeder3510]

@@jamesgordon177 ?

[@gusty9053]

@@nigielschroeder3510 While failing miserably at it in the same breath. "Not a great plan".

[@SuperGoose42]

I like the implication that, because she's perfectly lucid and "in control" when she gets angry, she was about to kill those 3 dudes while being "in control" What's that called again? Murder? Yeah that wouldn't hold up in court Ms Lawyer

[@stoyanivanov5542]

"Your honour, my client was purely gamin'" - Saul Goodman

[@swarley39]

And missed opportunity for the writers to have banner point that out after she said she's in control. But they couldn't do that because muh feminism

[@brettbarker8444]

So what she actually meant is “I get angry all the time but don’t do anything about it because women are naturally weaker physically than men. But if I had the opportunity I’d tear them apart.” Actually the making of a supervillain, huh?

[@Nichi-Ji]

Or she just turned to scare them and Bruce reacted poorly and decided to knock her immediately before anyone could see what her plan was

[@usafriptide1719]

@@Nichi-Ji Dude if you actually watched it you can clearly see she goes in for a punch, but did you watch it no. You're not gonna waste your time on this garbage show, heck even Disney knows that most women don't support their own so not even they'll watch it. Which is why they gave it to throw away writers cause it's a throw away show for them. They've made massive amounts of money with the Marvel franchise that they can do this kind of crap.

[@CLSGL]

“Marvel : It’s Okay When Women Do It”

[@justforever96]

"that means it is _not_ illegal" Richard Nixon

[@rainbowslushy223]

Its like the writers can’t decide if they want her to be “ GiRl BoSs” or a victim so they just have her be both

[@chrismaracle7729]

A case of wanting her cake and eating to?

[@sree3650]

Just like a modern day feminists who jumps around from being empowered and being a victim according to which benefits her the most. 🤷‍♂️

[@irrnfhdns9svjwjw269]

Called women in real life

[@eggpod4567]

@@irrnfhdns9svjwjw269 It's called being a liberal in real life.

[@gromswowguide7927]

Hey if you tell society that you’re a perfect person but also a victim, you get the perfect excuse to get all the benefits of being in power, but also not taking all of the responsibility and downsides of power. Perfect.

[@slowemm]

Marvel is doing a great job of writing terrible, unlikeable characters and insulting its main fan base. 👏

[@firstlast9846]

It’s main fan base eat it up.. I don’t mind the channel…. But look at “Reel Rejects” *That’s Marvel’s audience* people who eat up the content, scream, yell and laugh at the mid projects… and that “Coy” guy is unbearable

[@wolfgangkranek376]

Also, who needs a second She Hulk, we already have woke Bruce Banner.

[@alexphilipose1351]

After endgame, I just knew it was going to go downhill

[@JoJo-vg8dz]

The executives of Disney have an agenda : Vilifying men, white people and heterosexual people. They don't like super heroes or Sci fi. It's just a platform for their propaganda. It's like a cult. They are deeply disturbed. Motivated by hatred and revenge. They carefully bought the franchises that target a public of men in order to piss them off and lecture them.

[@ajpat9620]

@@alexphilipose1351 Exception of that was Spiderman films (Far From Home and No Way Home).

[@kin2955]

I’m now consistently more excited to watch the Drinker’s review of marvel content, than I am to actually watch the movie/show.

[@Tfaonc]

More succinct, more intelligent, more interesting.

[@pablocruz531]

Same

[@Alan_Edwards]

Channels like CD, HeelvsBabyface and Nerdrotic are my only sources of information on the latest MSheU crap. I refuse to watch even if it's just to see how bad it really is for myself. If they give the thumbs up I will give it a shot. Until then, I do not want to be counted as an actual viewer in any way.

[@arseeoliveira6934]

Same here

[@brent847]

the group stream was really great! 2 guys and 3 women and their critique women think it was crap too.

[@finlaywilliamson6196]

Dude you need to plug your book more! Enjoyed your stuff for a while and only now realized it existed. Will be picking it up for sure 👌

[@wackyjaci6869]

Very good points. I'm a 35 year old woman, and when I watched this first episode I was absolutely hinging on her being, literally and figuratively, knocked off her high horse. She is not humble, she is not compassionate, and she is not a good representation of an internally strong and capable young woman. The writers, I feel, have a lot of personal development to experience in their lives. They'll learn that in time. But honestly, more scripts need to be mass reviewed before being filmed and released, because the vast majority of them are not just embarrassing, but also damaging to those who watch it seeking a role model and image to aspire to. This show, so far, is an utter disgrace...

[@collenrung5009]

Right on!!! Well spoken Miss, very true and on the mark. You would think someone in this corporation would find it a wise idea to get truly innovated and intelligent people behind these films and shows. Especially you'd think with all the money involved and at stake. But alas, MCU keeps dishing out shallow and poor quality productions.

[@Scripture-Man]

Well said, miss!

[@waynehewett4017]

See the problem is the next generation are going to think this is the normal way people treat each other How women should treat men and think women can be narcissistic self entitled assholes that are prefect in every way The problem is men aren't tolerating women's shit any more Sick of being nothing but a ATM machine, doormat and a emotional punching bag for women Yet still women wonder why men don't want to commit to anything

[@wackyjaci6869]

@waynehewett4017 This post feels like there's a lot of personal matters to unpack, but I'll respectfully state that I'm leaving your life out of it and am going to speak on a general level when I say: Both genders have bad apples and bad role models. These are people we all would rather not see glorified or put into a lead position of power and respect in a narrative sense. That said, regarding those bad apples as permission to generalize dislike or disrespect is where this problem will continuously perpetuate itself. It's not a matter of creating an 'other' party in order to fulfill the role of evil and create a game of victims wanting justice, because that reality only exists in story books. People are more complex than that. The reason we should never, ever, follow that example is because most people who we see as bad apples are doing that very thing. They're taking at least one negative experience and generalized targeting it against all 'others' who can be categorized under it. This is a pattern of war that humans have a strong propensity for, and I'm not pointing it out as a manner of judgment, but from a place of compassion and wanting to communicate a viewpoint that is emotionally healthier for all parties involved. The only time I would judge is when the party is informed, but unwilling to grow as a person and choosing hate instead. This show's female lead lost me as an audience member after the first episode. I hope they utilize their fumble as a means of character growth to reflect on her behavior and realize how viewing herself as the victim and as the suffering party had her completely disregarding a loved one. That is unacceptable and needs to be addressed with healthy communication. The goal should never be to figure out how you're the victim of the situation without regarding others - that's what narcissists do. The goal should be to respectfully express how you're feeling and what you've gone through, and trust others to respect you in turn and help you through it. Making a show based on another person becoming a hulk should not be focused on the differences in gender, because that just promotes the 'others' mentality. It should have no dialogue about them even being different genders, because it doesn't matter in the least bit at all. Being able to meet the challenge as two humans with a healthy relationship should have been the goal, where women could feel that equality not because it was spoon-fed to them by downplaying and disrespecting the other gender, but because they got through it just as well. In a show called She-Hulk, though, which is as sexist a title as calling it She-Lawyer or She-Doctor, this isn't a goal I can see them pulling off. And that is where the disappointment lies.

[@waynehewett4017]

@@wackyjaci6869 I completely agree it doesn't matter what sex you are To be honest it's hard not to get personal and reflect our own experiences being in narcissistic toxic relationship As In my family and my mothers family about 90 percent of both sexes are narcissistic scum bags So as you can Emagine it wasn't a good environment to grown up with Unfortunately my last partner was again a Narcissistic person as well God know why I stayed for 16 years and had 2 kids with her And it effect both my kids and probably will for live Perhaps I had rock for brain and was thinking with the wrong head ? The fact is kids and the younger generation are influenced by media And now believe this is the normal and exceptable way to act in real life To acted like the bird in shehulk , rings of power , the woman King and any of the dozens of other shows and movies Been used as platforms for identity, gender politics and pushing the message Emagine acting like entitled prick at job interviews or going on marathons with no practice or training but you can do anything just cos your a prefect Mary sue It will not end well Like Ray in starwars where she pulls force powers out of her ass Things like this are teaching our kids the wrong lesson Instead of working hard ,treating others with respect, asking for help., training ,practising, failing and achieving goals We have a bunch of entitled , narcissistic assholes that think they are gods and the world owes them a living To be honest thats not a good look nor will turn out well It's the same in relationships they are all selfish and self centred and only interested in what they can screw out of people With 90 percent of the world population of both sexes being narcissistic scum bags already we certainly don't need to breed more of them

[@stevetrent4638]

I like how she talks about how much better she is at controlling her anger than Bruce while angrily ranting at Bruce lol

[@taunteratwill1787]

I love how you think this ads quality to this horrible shit show. 😋

[@Good_Watch]

@@taunteratwill1787 huh?

[@aceq6207]

Realistically it would be harder for women to control their emotions than a man. Men are logical as to where females are too emotional who can't check or control themselves

[@JustinHunter-Gaarindor]

@@taunteratwill1787 Your sarcasm radar is broken. Go get it fixed

[@DailyCorvid]

@@JustinHunter-Gaarindor no no I want him to carry on with the broken radar, it amuses me to see such whooshiness in KZbin comments 🤣🤣

[@tytanm-2380]

"You know, any time someone calls attention to the breaking of gender-roles, it ultimately undermines the whole concept of gender equality by implying that this is an exception, and not the status quo." -Knuckles, literally

[@meatshield6027]

God I loved the sonic boom show. To bad everyone hated the characters.

[@TheSpecialJ11]

This happened to me in a really surprising way. We did one of those bias exercises where it's "Think of a _______" the blank being some profession. For doctor I thought of a woman. Half of my doctors in my life have been women, maybe more if you factor in my childhood seeing pediatricians, and that became my default thought of a doctor. It was just normal to me; I didn't even notice the "successful women". They were just people. So then when they said "Men are typically thought of as doctors and women nurses" it really pulled me out of my actual perception of gender equality. Now certainly I had a lot more female nurses than male nurses, but in my life that meant it was majority women when I went to the hospital.

[@ranarman5866]

One of the writers wanting to get the problem off their backs and finding a way to put it inside the show brilliantly

[@collenrung5009]

I like all superheroes and supervillians or who ever character regardless of what gender, ethnicity, or sexuality. That's all fine, all good if it's a good story that's great . Never thought of it as an issue, why would it be? But if I wanted to go see the adventures of say, Tom Sawyer in the deep South in the 1800s or whatever, and now it's an Asian girl, what? In a sence who cares. Or say I was in the mood to see a movie about Muhammad Ali and now he's a Hispanic lady. The point I was trying to make ( I know those were silly or whatever) is I wanted to see the character's intended story. There's nothing wrong with showing a different light on a character I suppose. It's when it's blantenly slammed in your face for no reason in heighting the character or the story. Which I think MCU is doing carelessly. They aren't portraying interesting characters or stories. Sorry, those were probably lame ass examples. It's just there's so much material out there to make really enjoying , thought out stories with out flaking out.

[@thisguy9540]

i love this

[@JeromeBellon]

The worst part about the car crash scene is that it goes contrary to the Hulk trigger. It's not just anger, but more generally increase in tension. Being in a physically traumatic situation should also trigger the transformation. Having him save Jennifer would have made much more sense in every aspect. If they don't want the moral questioning of transfusing his blood voluntarily, they could have kept the accidental transfer during the crash... though we'd lose the very interesting character arc where Bruce questions his choice and Jen possibly blames him. But no. We live in the era of "me too" overcompensating, so a woman can't be seen being saved by a man anymore. Everything else is bad enough, but this scene by itself ruins the whole premise. It takes you out of the story, breaking immersion and suspension of disbelief, all for the cheap intrusion of real life politics into our entertainment. I'm also sick of fan-baiting, where great characters from other media (comics and games) are taken over by big entertainment corporations, stripped of all their content save for their names and - just sometimes - their basic skills, then pushed back to us as completely corrupt content that only bears superficial similarity to its original material. I haven't enjoyed anything from the big movies and series studios in quite a while because of these trends. Instead, I'm looking through smaller labels for creative and original works. The last one I really appreciated was Deadpool, which was - funny enough - made with inferior budget, but a team mostly respectful of its original work. If they had been reasonable, other directors should have learned a lesson like: "be more respectful of the work and its fans." Instead, they learned the more superficial lesson of: "be less reverential and drop dad jokes everywhere, regardless of the tone."

[@druw7523]

Privileged wealthy female writers: “My life is just so rough, it’s so hard being a female” Me who has to choose between paying rent or putting food in the fridge: “That’s rough, my condolences”

[@Mr__Geno]

You new here? Lol

[@SilverShadow02]

I'm sure they would trade rich and overweight for good-looking and trashy any day

[@charliecharliewhiskey9403]

They say the same things in front of soldiers who have been injured in battle.

[@MrMisanthrope84]

@@charliecharliewhiskey9403 I mean this show is that. The Hulk is literally a war hero at this point, who got wounded, maimed in battle, both psychologically and mentally. And there she was with her pumpkin spiced latte telling him he sucks.

[@charliecharliewhiskey9403]

@@MrMisanthrope84 That's a good point... the fact that he is a "superhero" kinda made me forget his character is effectively a war hero.

[@svenornitier]

I really appreciate this teardown-- not only did he explain what's wrong, he also pointed out the missed opportunities.

[@ablur5129]

Yeah man the stuff he suggested sounded way more interesting. Instead they got lazy and made people dislike the character instead what a shame

[@Khazandar]

And yet the fanboys (and girls) call this channel "Toxic masculinity" xD

[@King-ys8br]

@@Khazandar its normal behavior from these snowflakes.....as soon as u criticize the shit they are into they’ll call you every ist and ic that exists.......when in reality we criticize these garbage because of how bad it is and we want it to do better

[@eleanorscott6339]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZjXXnaeqK2lf7s Here's the full video that explains it..

[@moonknight2515]

He's a talented writer, that's why he's so passionate about it and disappointed by the lost opportunites of all these movies and shows

[@6oodfella]

"When incompetent men explain my own area of expertise to me", says the woman explaining anger to Hulk.

[@rocix.1647]

Don't forget that the lawyers might kill her for being female!

[@RS-ls7mm]

Good one.

[@WarlockX4]

When are the new videos coming out my friend?!

[@bubbasbigblast8563]

"You don't know what anger is like! I get cat called!" ".. I was used by the government as a weapon, and I saw a genocide happen right in front of me without being able to stop it." "But someone thinks they're better than me!" "..yeah, okay."

[@smokingcrab2290]

I like how her best reasons as to why she's better than the hulk are simply minor inconveniences all humans have gone through.

[@sparkeythehamster]

The worst thing is that I can see the bare bones of what might actually have been a good show in this. I actually like Tatiana Maslany in the role, and I think she can be quite charming when given the right lines. The idea of having a lower-ranking hero who doesn't actually want to be a hero but gets dragged in anyway, has a lot of Netflix Marvel vibes, that I actually quite liked. With so many super-powered individuals in the MCU now, it makes sense that not every one of them wants to throw themselves into life-threatening situations but still has to deal with who they are. Won't lie, I actually enjoyed the arc in episodes 2 - 3 with Abomination and working him back into the story. But the rest... and then the patronizing and preachy themes. I'm a woman, and I cringe every time we get one of those speeches about how hard it is to be a woman. Even if they did want to use that angle, they never actually show it to us. Jen is a lawyer, earning a good salary, she has her health, a good education, and a loving family, and yet, we get told that her life has been so much harder than any mans', particularly her cousin, Bruce. And all the while, they're working in so many stupid chick-flick clichés. "Oh my god, we need to get you some better clothes!" "Girl, you need to get out more and date." "It's so hard to date and have a career." All the women in this series are either evil villains or brainless bimbos, apart from the lead who varies between being likable and an absolute cringefest. Then the men are all either jocky idiots, or comic relief idiots. Wong was so out of character, particularly in episode 4, it made me want to cry. Who are these shows even for? They're not for Marvel fans, they aren't even for female Marvel fans.

[@ahzora8017]

You better not let other women hear you say this. If you have valid criticism for this show they assume it’s because you hate women. To woketivists criticism = women bad

[@sparkeythehamster]

@@ahzora8017 I don't think that's typically true. I have a lot of female friends who are also Marvel fans and none of them liked this series. You'll always get your loud minority who scream about the patriarchy every chance they get, but I think most female Marvel fans found this just as awful as the men did.

[@krisxxn4756]

You definitely nailed some egregious flaws here. The MCU making “female” content is such a monkeys paw situation for me. I thought I wanted it… but it seems like I forgot to wish for GOOD female-centric Marvel content. The flattening of female characters into inhumanly hypercompetent caricatures is depressing.

[@MrMisanthrope84]

Yeah. All the same. Same bland corporate female characterisation masquerading as 'strong'. Christ Almighty, make it stop. Surely this isn't what anybody wants?

[@IsaiahRichards692]

I love how they portray girl power by implying female superheroines will never get off the ground without a male superhero laying the foundation first! Female Loki. Female Thor. Batgirl. Supergirl. Valkyrie.

[@shiori00]

That's the MsheU for ya

[@menaatefadly]

Honestly I wished the same! And now I regret the new era sadly. I still believe good writing can bring us such interesting unique female characters if they just hire GOOD writers

[@normal6969]

Not only hypercompetent, but assholes too. :( They give to those women all the toxic personality they hate so much in men. But why?

[@dmitriimekh6288]

If you ask for a real lawyer, who is appeared to be female, the only answer that I can think of is Kim Wexler. A real cheracter, that has her own flaws, who is struggling to do the best she can for people. I still remember that arc, when she was at her lowest in the HHM because of Jimmy and his problems. And the only thing she could do is work harder, do whatever she can to solve her problem, and she did it by herself, she help the company, finds Mese Verde, and all that hard work goes to Howard. That is how you write struggling woman in a lawyer company, not this bulshit.

[@WaxTheDolphin]

It's a shame Drinker doesn't talk about Better Call Saul.

[@virajphadtare4816]

@@WaxTheDolphin probably because he doesn't have to

[@PostCrisisRH]

@@WaxTheDolphin What is there to say, its amazing

[@perunplague9794]

Kim was such a good character. They even made Howard sympathetic in the final season.

[@gekozilla7339]

The MCU wishes it could make a character a fraction as good as Kim or a show 1% as good as Better Call Saul

[@notbloodylikely4817]

Honestly, it's getting embarrassing now. Actors just collecting paychecks while self entitled writers foist their first world problems on the rest of us.

[@eyezj7412]

When has that ever been different. Very few actors do more than collect a pay check and frankly I don't blame them. It's a job not a calling

[@jddi1527]

Yep

[@Shockkings0714]

It’s been happening sense the inception of Hollywood. Stop whining

[@eckyx9019]

Money........anything goes.

[@MrMisanthrope84]

It is absolutely just that. Nail on head.

[@clapdrix72]

We need a petition to get Drinker as a writer on the next Marvel show. The show he just described could have made She Hulk a poignant, dynamic sleeper a la Andor, rather than a punchline and one & done.

[@JohnSmith-fe1oq]

'Jennifer being badly injured and Bruce reluctantly giving her a blood transfusion, saving her life at the cost of turning her into a Hulk' is actually the exact description of her comics origin. Honestly, this change alone tells you everything you need to know of this sh...ow.

[@nascar138]

Exactly. This Disney version just makes it like "OOOPS!!!! I got some of Bruce's blood on me. I hope nothing bad happens." Now I'm a Hulk and I'm gonna be the BESTEST EVAR!!!!"

[@freakygeak]

that's what I thought as it's been years since I read comics

[@adamlucas4753]

It also converts a tidy character creation plot-wise into a terrible mess. The Hulk being contained within Bruce makes sense. The majority of a recipient's blood being replaced from the blood of Bruce Banner transferring some/all of The Hulk into them makes sense. People undergo bone marrow transplants and (re)gain immunity function all the time, dialysis removes and adds effective amounts of chemicals to people's blood all the time. But every last spatter of Bruce's blood transferring near or whole Hulk abilities on anyone with an open wound? That makes it seem more like a blood-borne pathogen and anyone who eats a meal prepared by Bruce after he forgot to wash his hands should be getting Hulk abilities.

[@riastradh]

I actually like the show’s version better because you cannot convince me Bruce fucking Banner would willingly put the hulk inside another person

[@selfdescedgelord7699]

@@riastradh he doesn't willingly put the Hulk in her you pepeg. There was no way to save her but a blood transfusion and only his blood matched.

[@yespls6260]

So irritating how in a lot of these films/shows, women have to be born virtually perfect and not make any mistakes in their expertise to be considered "strong".. frankly it's pretty misogynistic of Marvel/Disney to make their female characters be completely perfect to be considered "successful"

[@jadookazam9319]

Well its the same for men, not trying to defend this show though. This show lost me already when i saw rhe first ooster for it.

[@SpagettiSpeltWrong]

It's sexism both ways. It portrays men as fumbling fuckfaces who can't tell their left hand from their right, and it portrays women as average who can only rise above if they're put up against men who are so far below that simply counting to five is enough to get you above. That's why I liked Black Widow as a hero. Not once does she feel like the strongest character in the room (except for that once scene in Iron Man 3). She's a fighter, yes, but in no way is she the strongest character. She's a spy and a skilled fighter, and grounds most of the superhero characters since she's one of the only humans without a supersuit or super powers. She and Hawkeye play similar roles in the MCU. They're the anchor. They keep characters on their feet and ego check them when they step out of line. That's why I love Widow and I love Hawkeye. Obviously not all female characters have to be that anchor, (If Captain Marvel had been handled correctly, she could've been a great example of a powerful character who could kick everybody's ass but still be a character) but it does go to show that female characters can be good if being a woman isn't a top priority for the writers.

[@nakajimakuro]

Agree, the whole fake self positivity is really unhealthy

[@rider338]

Well good news pretty sure this was written by a woman

[@AnonningAnon]

It's a show based on misandry, ofc it's going to have a side of misogyny; because to put men down, you also have to deform what it means to be a woman.

[@lazerstudios9982]

"I control my anger infinitely more than you" Ah yes, the guy that suffered PTSD, depression, attempted suicide multiple times and failed, had an abusive father who killed his mother because he hated his own son, military persecution, branded a war criminal essentially, ganged up on by Brazil thugs, losing the love of his life (because Universal won't allow Betty Ross), and tried Brazilian martial arts and learned breathing and meditation techniques to manage anger. Being catcalled on the street even when you're not even that attractive prior to the transformation by betas and incels (I hate using those terms) who's standards have lowered due to loneliness is infinitely more challenging than any of those things Bruce endured.

[@Cadrieldur]

Facts comin' at you at supersonic speed

[@hardcastle4419]

Her shirt should have read 'Hollywood loves China' .

[@TheMeta141]

just looking at her normally let alone coming out of that bar just has me thinking. dude really? you're THAT desperate? any port in a storm i guess

[@jeremypayne5078]

Fuck, now I'm a little frustrated that Drinker didn't have a hand in writing this show. Every one of his ideas would've made it better.

[@rb9882]

Imagine literally succumbing to anger while telling Bruce/Hulk that you’re infinitely better at controlling your anger due to being a 💁🏻‍♀️

[@magnusthered4973]

Jesus Christ the moments it that time of the month everyone’s screwed

[@Saikontesa]

And all this while he is sitting there as hulk. Which manifests when Bruce gets angry. But the Hulk is calm. I don't know...who's controlling the anger better?

[@mnomadvfx]

@@Saikontesa Without the suppressor he would always be Hulk full time since before Endgame.

[@eyespy3001]

Smart Hulk doesn’t succumb to anger, hence the name *Smart* Hulk. Thought that was pretty obvious…

[@TommyCeltic]

When did they make an emoji for cunt?