she tried to STEAL my cat 🐈‍⬛ r/EntitledParents

who will win the coveted karen in the wild trophy today? will it be cat stealing mama? papa insisting the kid can ride your unwell puppy? mum who uses minion child to take donuts from someone's trolley? let's find out! x
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[@abigailhoneycombe]

2:03 "no business bring a dog in here" ...sir this is a VETS office

[@llynxfyremusic]

Sir this is a Wendy's energy

[@phlackbillip]

That first story boils my piss, imagine telling someone that their sick dog has no reason to be at a VETINARY CLINIC.

[@petrastedman669]

For me, it's more that his reasoning was you wouldn't bring an *unsafe* animal to the vet, which isn't necessarily true. We just took my mom's new cat to the vet, and there were 2 very big dogs wearing muzzles b.c of the issues they were in for - illness where they couldn't have his mouth free, and aggressive behavior. But the first time the owner said no, you freaking listen. That's just common courtesy.

[@durabelle]

Yep, that dad was completely ridiculous! Even the friendliest of dogs can react aggressively when in pain or in fear, as many dogs (unsurprisingly) are at the vets. It's okay to ask the owner if you can say hello to a dog in the waiting room, since some are there only for a routine checkup or vaccination etc. but if they say no, that means you'd better leave the poor pup alone. I'd go as far as to say that a veterinary clinic isn't necessarily the best place to bring children into, but it most definitely is the right place for poorly pets, however well or badly behaved they happen to be.

[@s.a.4358]

@@petrastedman669even animals who are not the most well behaved need and deserve medical care. And some animals are not aggressive but just nervous around strangers, which can make them act up if feeling threatened, they could be not on their best behaviours because of pain or be stressed about going to the vet. As long as the animal is not actively being aggressive or disruptive to other people, just let them be!

[@vogelvrouw]

Right?! That kid has no reason to be there

[@Berylthe-peril]

It’s never ok to ride on a dogs back.

[@kimjacobsen3552]

Wildlife veterinarian here, and a proud cat parent. Not only does allowing your cat unsupervised access outside statistically reduce its life span, particularly in urban areas where vehicles pose a major danger, but domestic cats are an introduced species that directly lead to the destruction of native populations, particularly native birds. Domestic cats are what we call “super predators” in that they will kill prey animals not just for food but also for recreation, which has had devastating impacts in many endangered native bird populations and have even been linked to the extinction of several native animal species in different countries. Not only that, but things like cat bells do not prevent cats from killing birds.

[@emilytamar]

yes yes yes

[@Knitting_in_seattle]

Yep this is what I was going to comment about

[@whoahanant]

This is something I point out all the time as a cat owner. It's kinda gross how neglectful it is in general about animals. All other pets you wouldn't allow the same kind of free unsupervised roaming, so it's ridiculous to allow cats to be the exception when they cause so much damage.

[@theoriginalnik]

This was what I was going say, thank youuuuuu

[@TutTuT.]

Came here to say that! Cats are genuine menaces. Mine is a rescue I found in the trash, she doesn't go outside (doesn't want to all that much despite knowing what it's like) and leads a very happy life. That being said, she does have access to a balcony and has managed, over 4 years, to grab 3 birds. Including one yesterday. I maybe managed to save it but the other two definitely died (she ate one). If that's what a lazy, sheltered, spoiled cat can do *from inside an apartment* then imagine what kind of massacres an active cat can do outside...

[@zoekrishel6677]

The first girl is lucky the dog didnt bite her!! You never approach a sick animal, like you would find at a VET CLINIC! That one really irked me

[@zoekrishel6677]

My Vet did say that cats need to stay inside- they are domesticated and do not need to go outside- there are cars, catnappers, dogs, other cats that could be sick PLUS cats are destroying the local ecosystems. I was also told that i was anthropomorphizing my cat and it was not ‘sad’ to be inside.

[@greenginger6668]

You never approach an animal that’s not yours, period. That’s something more parents need to teach their children, adults can use their discretion when it comes to strays and such. Dog attacks maim and kill so many children every year bc kids don’t understand boundaries… especially not interspecies boundaries.

[@kellyl13]

@@greenginger6668 I don’t know if I completely agree with you, but parents should at least teach their kids to ask the owner before petting their dog and supervise their encounter.

[@s.a.4358]

Exactly! Also the child didn’t even approach herself, which would be forgivable as she is 3 years old, but the dad told her to go up to the dog. That is crazy to me, why are you teacher your child potentially dangerous behaviour?? Don’t approach an animal you don‘t know and try to touch them. I am constantly trying to make friends with any cat I meet on the street and any dog that is willing to be petted, but I always do it careful and see if the animal is into the idea or not - or ask their humans if there is one around. Even a “good boy” can be skittish or have bad experiences that make him uncomfortable with strangers.

[@greenginger6668]

@@kellyl13 that’s what a meant. You never approach an animal you don’t know/ own without asking first. I was just bad with words

[@olgar.6604]

I disagree with giving the kid a donut in story 2. In my opinion that would be rewarding malicious behavior, in this case, attempted theft. Next time they might think "I better try to get these donuts, at best I get the whole box and at worst, I might still get one if I cry hard enough that like one time when the lady startled me. It's better than not trying and not getting any at all".

[@Rikrobat]

It also reinforces the entitled mother’s stance that child crying = can still get what I want. I feel bad for that child; they’re being taught to be a menace

[@s.a.4358]

Agreed. I do feel bad for the child because he was egged on by his mom (who probably does crap like that regularly so the child is not being taught how to behave adequately) and got scared but I don’t think that’s OP’s problem or for her to fix. I don’t blame the child but taking things out of someone’s shopping basket is wrong and wrong behaviour shouldn’t be indulged.

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

Besides, the kid wouldn't have been startled or had a word said to them at all, IF the kid hadn't been trying to touch something that didn't belong to them and was already in somebody else's possession-have a little accountability for the natural consequences of your own actions, kid.

[@rachelann9362]

Agreed. It gets mom what she wants, it gets kid what it wants, despite having a firm boundary to NOT steal donuts or guilt trip/ shame someone. It’s giving in to the tantrum. Many Karen’s do what they do BECAUSE it works.

[@whoahanant]

As someone with 3 rescued cats, domestic cats are a serious problem across the globe. They're an invasive species and should not be allowed to be free roaming. They kill thousands of small animals ranging from birds to small mammals which also effects mid size predators by out competing them from their prey. Domestic cats also don't always hunt for hunger because they have food from you as the owner, they hunt for fun as well. Cats shouldn't be an exception in the pet world to be allowed to free roam unsupervised and it's why certain islands in the world have permanently banned domestic cats. They cause tons of damage but in comparison to other pets they're given an unfair exception to just roam wherever. Outdoor cats also upset your neighbors indoor cats, you could be making another households pet stressed and miserable because your cat is bothering it on their property. There's alot of bad about "outdoor cats". Which just shouldn't exist unless you have a working cat much like a working dog, like farm dogs and cats who have jobs to do. Additionally to all that you're basically risking your cats life every time you let them roam unsupervised. Disease, parasites, cars, horrible people, predators, accidents, ect. You can totally be outside with your cat, just like all other pets, in various different ways. Catios for a safe enclosed space, harnesses (my cats actually walk with me and my dog on harnesses) and other ways. Cats shouldn't be an exception to all this. Making your indoors more cat friendly is what helps keep cats from wanting to go outside so often as well alot of play and excitement, high places and some attention is good for keeping them entertained rather than loosing them outside all the time. Some groups in the pet communities in general get treated much worse and their animals banned for being "maybe invasive", sometimes not invasive at all but still get banned but cats have been allowed to not be banned despite them overtaking multiple ecosystems and overpopulating on the streets. The reptile community specifically have to deal with all the time but sometimes the fish and even bird communities have to deal with some unfair bans on their animals vs cats. If your cats "likes a little freedom" then you should be responsible and give that to them but safely and under supervision. My 3 were all strays off the streets, my own streets, none of them even remotely cry or whine or stress about going outside. Because the house is built for their play place and they'll get to go outside for some fun with me on a regular basis.

[@samantharose7951]

Agreed, the local free roaming cats cause my dogs a lot of distress

[@DangerNoodleBoop]

Billions actually, in the US alone estimates are over 2 billion birds killed annually by domestic cats. About 2/3 are from feral cats, the remaining 1/3 cats with homes that are allowed outside.

[@teri2466]

👏👏👏 There are lots of cats that roam where I live - feral & pets. It drives me crazy.

[@whoahanant]

@@DangerNoodleBoop yeah I was talking about various species though haha. People only ever focus on just the birds but their impact on lots of other species is also crucial.

[@Paigewe]

Thank you for writing everything my blood was boiling about. I didn’t want to spend the next 15 minutes writing a small novel 😂

[@bakalaurel]

I work at a GP vet hospital in the US and let me just say I am so tired of seeing 1- and 2-year-old outdoor cats dying traumatic deaths from being hit by cars, and I don’t even live in an urban area. I’m sure that ER vets and especially vets in cities see even more HBCs than we do. Not to mention outdoor cats that have been attacked by wild animals and suffer brutal wounds and painful deaths… these are preventable issues that are devastating to see and horrible for the cats to experience. I’m not against cats going outside at all, but unsupervised outdoor time is dangerous for the cats as well as for the wildlife like birds and rodents. Walks with a harness and leash, screened catios and fenced-in yards, and even kitty strollers and backpacks are great ways for people to let their cats experience the outdoors in a safer and more controlled way. Just don’t forget to give them flea, tick, and parasite prevention regularly as directed on the box!

[@rebeccajesse4604]

I used to live in a place with a thriving coyote population. Never saw the same outdoor cat twice. I just can’t imagine being willing to take that risk.

[@bakalaurel]

@@rebeccajesse4604 I can’t imagine it either, it’s heartbreaking

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

Yup, a coyote / fox or bobcat / lynx will kill and eat a cat if it gets half a chance, and bobcats / lynxes can climb trees. Not to mention wolves, bears and cougars where they prowl, though I do hope that rural people have a bit more respect for nature and keep their cats safe.

[@Whateverhasbeenmynameforyears]

I had a hawk sitting 10ft away watching our cats on our deck. (I have ours trained if I clap the head inside as fast as they can for this reason)

[@neverlandhunter6988]

Shaaba, the indoor/outdoor cat debate is very cultural. In the U.S., every cat shelter I've interacted with has had an expectation that cats be indoor only unless they are feral or working cats (think farm or factory cats). I watched a Kitten Lady video where a U.K. shelter wouldn't adopt out cats that wouldn't have a garden option. Indoor/outdoor cats are at a higher risk to be killed in the U.S. due to our large quantity of cat eating predators (the biggest among these in my area being coyotes). Our car culture doesn't lead to good road outcomes either. With that said, I'm very passionate about having your cats indoor only (unless lead trained or they have an enclosed area outside). In the U.S., cats kill almost 4 billion birds every year. Cats are invasive species. They eradicate small mammal, bird, and amphibian/reptile populations. You can keep your indoor only cat healthy, happy, and stimulated. You cannot keep your indoor/outdoor cat from destroying your local ecosystem.

[@neverlandhunter6988]

@@someonewithazeldaprofilephoto Yes, there's evidence to show it helps, but it will only reduce the amount of prey they can catch and kill. I'd also worry it would attract predators like dogs or coyotes, but I don't know if there's any evidence behind that.

[@leftminnow9110]

​@@someonewithazeldaprofilephotoI don't have any experience with cat bells, but I have heard that they can learn to move so that the bell doesn't. It's really best to keep the cats indoors if they aren't in a supervised/contained situation, just like a dog would be. Not only is it best to keep the cat indoors for their own safety and nature's sake, but also for your neighbors. No one wants cat poop in their gardens or sandboxes, or dead critters left in their yard if they don't have a cat.

[@neverlandhunter6988]

@@leftminnow9110 I appreciate the comparison to owning dogs and bringing up stray cat poop in other people's yards/gardens. Cats are the only pets that are given a societal pass to be outside, unattended, without an enclosure (I'm not considering livestock) Some people do this with their dogs, but I don't know anyone who's ever argued it's okay to. You don't believe your well loved dog isn't getting enough stimulation and joy in its life, so why believe your cat doesn't have enough being indoor only? As for cats using your yard as a litterbox: my sister lives next to a cat hoarder. The cats love spraying on the wheels of any parked cars. It makes an absolutely awful smell during the hot weather. There's also a small risk of toxoplasmosis from gardening where cats have pooped.

[@durabelle]

@@someonewithazeldaprofilephoto Cats' hunting style is mostly stalking, they stay extremely still until the prey gets close enough for them to pounce, and by that point the warning bells are too late. It mostly just slows down the inexperienced cats, but once they learn to be patient the bells aren't worth a thing. We'd need to develop a device with motion sensors on it, so that it sounds a warning when anything approaches the cat, not the other way around. I also told this under another comment, but I took in a cat used to roaming free, and instead of keeping him as a total indoors cat I taught him to walk in a harness. He still had enough freedom to stay happy, but never caught another bird. (He did once catch a shrew on our walk though, so even that's not 100% effective.. but the shrew ran out of a bush right in front of the cat as we were walking past and the cat instinctively grabbed it, absolutely nothing I could do about it 😔)

[@restlessellis]

The uks roads are just as dangerous, and we have probably more train lines around our population centers which are accessible to cats. There are also dogs in gardens and on leads, foxes and badgers and a large gull will have a go at a kitten and a buzzard would take a smaller cat if they get the chance. The uk is just massively behind the times and likes to kid itself.

[@A_T216]

House cats are absolutely devastating to local bird populations. Please, everyone, keep your house cats inside unless you have ways to not introduce new predators to your ecosystem, even if they're only part-time predators at most. There's cat patios and houses, there's fenced gardens, you can take them on walks with a leash or in a specialised backpack, etc. But please protect your cats (from disease, cars, etc) and protect all the other critters as best as you can.

[@InThisEssayIWill...]

YES. This! Not just birds, but all kinds of wildlife, especially when they're regularly fed indoors the hunting is just entertainment for them, also those critters carry fleas and worms and can harm your precious fur babies health. I'm a life long pet owner and will readily admit I have not always followed this rule to perfection (when we first moved to the country I was uneducated about the ecosystem damage and didn't understand the dangers, I've lost babies to wasting (cytauxzoonosis) and to the roadway. Not to mention hellish flea infestations it is just so much less trouble to keep them indoors. Even cats who you've adopted from outside will eventually stop trying to get out because I promise you they know how cushy they've got it.

[@LadyLightningstorm]

A cats expected lifespan drops dramatically when you regularly let them roam outside. Mostly because of cars.

[@anacsadder]

Two of our previous cats were indoor/outdoor. One went to the vet multiple times for abscesses from puncture wounds, and the other got a couple of different parasites before I moved out of the suburbs and started keeping him inside. My current cat only goes as far as our screen porch, but he seems perfectly fine with it. He seems to prefer finding comfy places to sleep in the house, honestly.

[@user-wi3yx3gy2o]

Hey what pride flag is that? Is it an asexual or non binary micro label?

[@LadyLightningstorm]

@@user-wi3yx3gy2o Aroace. I'm not sure if that has a space or hyphen or something.

[@oreolaw9911]

hello I'm a vet nurse I do agree with you but indoor cat needs more attention and more care and a lot of people aren't willing to do that and we have started seeing indoor cats that have worse states of health than they should for their age because these cats are not receiving enough care and attention from their owners. honestly I personally think nearly half of the people who have indoor cats shouldn't even have them because those cats aren't having a good quality of life and keeping them stuck inside without proper enrichment is just cruel

[@morningtime7187]

​@@oreolaw9911does it really matter if they're neglected indoors or by putting them outdoor and making it everyone else problem? Either way you got a pet and won't take care of it. Just because someone else is feeding or the cats scrounging/hunting, doesn't suddenly make it good that the owner neglects it.

[@friendly.felidae]

GP vet here and cat owner in the UK. You are looking at a difference of life expectancy of about 10 years if you let your cat outside. You risk death by car, death by poisoning (intentional and accidental), parasitism (which can be deadly if the burden is high enough and not caught), and so much more. If you have a cat that has always gone outside, sure the quality of life may be reduced by trying to keep them in. However if you have a kitten or young cat, it is really just about having proper enrichment. If you take the time and energy into socializing and playing with your cats it is great quality of life. It also allows you to better catch health issues early on while still manageable.

[@jessicamarino7448]

25 year vet tech career - can confirm, we do hear the phones in our sleep...

[@flaweddream6562]

I'm a CVT and I've been out of clinic for several years, but I still have flashbacks when I hear a very specific ringtone, lol.

[@petrastedman669]

Our old cat would run outside sometimes like she was busting out of jail, sit down all pleased with herself, then look around like 'wait, where am I? How do I get home?' One time she ran out into the rain - and wouldn't come back in. Just sat there meowing that she was getting wet until I got her. (Sigh) I miss that beautiful idiot.

[@zarasoliday1300]

I know most of the comments are going to be about letting our cats outside. I am slightly worried about how strong I would be if my adopted cat came from a life where they were used to going outside, and I suddenly had to be the one to deny them that. However, she was rescued from a wood pile as a kitten and didn't seem keen to go back outside for years. There are a lot of reasons why we chose not to let our cat roam unsupervised outside, but one of the biggest ones for us was the absolute decimation of local bird life. I am incredibly interested in ornithology, and my partner comes from a family of birders. We were very aware of the effect. However, this just gave me an excuse to find a cute harness for our fur baby, or just forces my neurodivergent ass to go outside and touch grass every now and then when she just wants to sit on the porch and chill. I understand that's not an option for everyone all the time, but maybe adding it as a tool in your toolbox will help reduce the amount of unsupervised time your cat is outside, while also giving you some benefits. ❤

[@Kyrii]

I have a cat who was indoor/outdoor before I got him. It took a few weeks of him bashing at the door before he chilled out, but he did eventually chill out. But some time later, I harness-trained him so we could go on walks, I leave the windows open when it's nice, and we just got a catio last fall. Sounds like you're already doing some of that, which is awesome. But yeah, you can absolutely convert an indoor/outdoor to an indoor-only, it just takes time.

[@clearlyseverely3155]

Okay so that dad was absolutely in the wrong, but I also work in a vet clinic and I have worked in reception-- part of your job is to manage the area, and it should never be that all people are actively taking phone calls. Even if they are on a phone call, you keep an eye on those in your area and that's what a hold button is for.

[@stolenrelic]

This! I used to work in the veterinary field (now in the human medical field) and I wouldn't go back to that clinic after that experience.

[@Kyrii]

Answer to the indoor/outdoor debate on cats (if you can): catio. They're much safer from cars, people, predators, and disease indoors. But if you can afford and have the space for an enclosed area outdoors, it's wonderful! Otherwise, harness-train them and take them for walks. It's adorable. It takes my boy a full hour to loop around the house for exploring. The house isn't that big.

[@mendicantcrow]

Haha yeah our walks can be that slow too. One of my boys will cover about a block on his leashed walk. But the other just likes to check out the area around his house, hunt some bugs, and eat some grass.

[@gus8824]

Please don't let your cats wander around pooping in other people's gardens and spreading disease. Plus killing nesting birds, getting into fights/mating with other cats, putting themselves at risk with traffic... everyone I know with outdoor cats has had one die or be seriously hurt, get scratches or wounds that become infected, because they are allowed to come and go

[@BlackKoshka23]

Cats can be trained to go for walks on a leash if they absolutely need to go outside. They can also be trained to jump on the owner's shoulder if needed (like if there are things that scare the cat).

[@dogwoodleaf]

The outdoor/indoor cat thing is something I’ve studied in college. “Outdoor” cats are a highly invasive species with a drastically reduced lifespan. They hunt and kill tons of birds and other mammals, having a somewhat disastrous environmental impact. They’re also susceptible to vehicle deaths, being hunted and attacked by other animals such as coyotes, and contracting diseases / getting parasites. If you want your cat to have outside time, invest in a cat patio or harness train your little buddy and take them for walks. Make sure they have plenty of engaging things to do inside, like play with toys, scratching posts, and having food puzzles. Leaving a cat outside just because it’s “easier” is frankly not okay. Cats take responsibility and time to care for, and if you can’t provide that, you should not own a cat.

[@Kangamoos]

With the donut one, you can't reward that kind of behaviour, I know it's tough and I would have considered it too. The kid will learn that getting upset gets them their way.

[@ramion6857]

Two cat tales. 1. My mom has a few cats at her farm. One can't go outside because she starts coughing every time. (She is not happy about it.) 2. Another family member had two cats. (One passed away about a year ago.) They loved going outside. Her neighbour, we suspect, tried to drown one because they were in his yard. Those cats were never allowed back outside. (It was suspect due to a few reasons, but I don't fully recall, and it was 7+ years ago.) ... I will always advocate for cat patios. They are enclosed and safe. No worrying about what might happen to your cat... or, quite possibly, what your cat might do.

[@EmpressOfCatsup]

You can google indoor cat initiative to find leading feline behaviorists' recommendations on how to keep cats safe and happy inside. No pets should be running loose outside.

[@gabrieldartemius9940]

I've heard a lot of stories of cats getting into trouble outside and they're all so horrible. It's not just running into cars, they can get into fights with streetcats, who already have a territory they'd typically want to protect, and they can get fatal injuries from those fights and horrible illnesses like calcivirus or inmuno diseases that are just as bad for them as they are for us. One cat was left in the parents of their owner hands because they had an unavoidable trip, and when the owner came back the cat had been let outside and came with a lethal disease and ended up dying. There was a story of a cat that was rescued and continued going out until at some point got into a horrible fight and came with a big injury; the cat never again WANTED to go out. And they are aware, I think most streetcats love to stay inside and don't miss the outdoors, because they KNOW how good they have it. It's not fun outside, it's only fun and games until something happens, same as with us. We make stupid decisions all the time too. But we're responsible for them so it's on us to make sure that never happens. ALSO: if your cat is depressed you're doing a bad job as an owner. Your job is not only to feed them, it's also to make them feel happy lives. GIve them the enrichment they need and deserve and they'll also stop knocking things off your shelves and tables to get your attention. ALSOx2: cats are VERY effective hunters. It's well known that they're a danger to birds everywhere they live. They've contributed to a lot of loss of bird communities. AND I'D LIKE TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO PEOPLE THAT POISON FOOD FOR ANIMALS. YOUR CAT CAN ALSO EAT THAT AND DIE. There are tons of bastards out there, don't let them get your pets.

[@neverlandhunter6988]

I don't understand how someone can let their cat out and not have immense anxiety about what they're doing/getting into all day 😅 Even people who obsess over their cats will let them out to wander. You wouldn't let your dog out unsupervised, why is it okay to let your cats out?

[@minohki]

I live in an area with a ton of abandoned cats and feral cats. Lots of people in the neighborhood, including me, feeds them. That said, I don’t claim ownership of any of them. Also, 100% on the side of pet cats should be kept indoors. It’s is safer for them and for the environment. And, at least in the USA, unfixed cats being allowed to roam is rampant. Which just leads to more cats with no homes.

[@DragonbornCanid]

the thing with keeping cats indoor only is that cats are invasive species almost everywhere in the world, and as such are incredibly successful hunters. theyre known to wipe out entire species of birds and cause A LOT of, sometimes irreparable, harm to the environment this way. a cat CAN be happy indoors too! a safe and comfortable fenced off yard, toys, and playtime can keep them happy inside and keeps the birds alive :) even if you think your cat isnt a hunter or wouldnt be good at it: they are. even just destroying nests and the like is extremely harmful! eggs dont run. so please please PLEASE, respectfully, keep your cats indoors 🙏🙏🙏

[@albtraumeryoctogram3594]

Pet cats should never be let outside unless in a Cat Patio or on a leash. Not only for their own safety (outdoor cats live 5 years on average, indoor cats live 15 years on average), but also for the safety of native wild animals. As pet cats are invasive nearly everywhere and have caused several species of birds and lizards to go extinct. If a cat is "too bored inside and needs to go out" you (general you) as the owner have failed to give your pet proper enrichment. A cat needs multiple toys and daily dedictated play time as well as at least one cat tree so they can climb and scratch their claws. If you cannot provide this you shouldn't have cats. No one is entitled to a pet. Sorry if this sounds heated. I take animal neglect very seriously as it's a huge issue.

[@shyliek11]

On the outside inside cat topic, just because it’s something i think about, i’ve seen a lot of ways of doing it. I grew up on a farm, many of my cats were indoor/outdoor because of this. My grandmother lost a cat to coyotes due to this, and also had issues with the cats chasing chickens, getting too close to horses, etc. Now my mom has had strays come to her house because she has a barn and it’s warm. She feeds them but doesn’t let them inside, where she has a very old cat with a disability that it distresses to have other cats she doesn’t know. This cat has two friends who go inside and outside but stay in the immediate yard. Once my cat got lost for weeks and I was devastated. He came home eventually and after that he never went far outside the yard again. He moved with me to my apartment in the city for college and I bought him a leash and all figuring he’d like to go outside. No. He hated it, despised it, screamed and peed and ran back inside. He lived the rest of his life inside and we never tried to make him leave except for vet visits and the like. My partner got a cat who’s very interested in the outside so we put him on a leash and he’ll explore a little. Eventually we made a small catio in our garden box (basement unit) and he can be safely outside while supervised. When I researched it more, I found a contained area like a catio was what seemed the best due to the fact cats are an invasive species in many areas, there’s far too many poor beans without homes due to unfixed cats wondering around and they are in danger especially if you live in a city or town. That’s just my opinion, I think many people who live on farms have indoor/outdoor or just barn cats and as long as you get them all spayed and neutered it’s usually that they stay pretty close to home. The most important part is spaying and neutering. There are SO SO many unhoused kittens. I grew up seeing far too many kittens not make it through their first winter, be run over, get stuck in something dangerous, etc due to people not being responsible. FIX YOUR CATS! It’s so important in case they get outside or you let them outside. I still recommend a controlled area for them to be in, but most of all I’d say just be responsible for your babies

[@stabbun]

Oh, that reminded me that I think my grandma said the lost a cat on the farm because it was behind a horse or a cow 😢

[@ChibiRandom13]

This is very similar to my experience as well. As long as you're actually responsible with your outdoor farm cats and make sure they're well fed and taken care of they tend to live healthy lives. Urban cats I feel have a far different experience and need to be treated differently as a result.

[@solacessewingcorner1396]

fun fact, domestic house cats are actully some of the most sucessful hunters and can be an invasive speices in many places. This is actully always the reason I heard for not letting them outside. I have heard many tales of cats reaking havoc on local bird populations

[@killer_rabbit42]

Every cat I've had in my adult life has been an indoor cat because growing up we had cats that would go outside & some of them never came home. If I ever had the space, I would love to build a super secure outdoor enclosure that my cats could go in & out as they pleased so they would be safe as well as the wildlife.

[@OingoDeLaBoingo]

My family has a ton of cats outside and it drives me mad! They've had multiple hit by cars, or disappear, or ended some other horrible way yet nothing ever changes. Not to mention all the birds, lizards, and rodents they ruin the populations of I think if you wanna let your cat outside you have to have a way to keep them contained to a limited area, have a yard (but not a lawn cuz gross) or put them on a leash or in a cat backpack, something

[@gracelovely3838]

I want to add that if the cat is getting fat, it is a problem. Even a cat with no allergies or special requirements will have their lifespan shortened by many years if it is overweight. If i found out someone was essentially giving my pet a bunch of junk food and hurting their health, I'd be upset too

[@emmaoyle9451]

The not letting cats wander outside thing goes beyond your pet’s safety. Domestic cats are the #1 killer of small animals like birds and lizards. Outdoor cats a significant factor in the population decline of many, already vulnerable, native species.

[@olgar.6604]

When I was in the process of getting my youngest cat, I got denied once the guy giving the kittens away learned that I was planning on letting him out (and even having other cats that go out). He said that he once lost a kitten to peritonitis (FIP). I looked it up and was horrified and decided not to let my new kitten go out. Also missing pet posters freak me out. My kitty is happy inside as I play a lot with him but also because he never went outside. I'm sad though that kitty might be missing out on many cat experiences :(

[@neverlandhunter6988]

Those experiences could include being attacked by predators, dogs, and other cats, getting hit by a vehicle, consuming something toxic to them, and being harassed or stolen by humans. You're giving them a statistically longer life and you can give them just as much mental nourishment that you would give a dog.

[@stabbun]

We got my cat Larry as a stray found by my dad's cousin. He has (had?) FIP and it was the scariest thing to experience. I can't even type what I saw, but it hurt me so bad to see him go through that, even though he's an indoor cat now for most of his life! Luckily he's still alive and well but I really thought I was gonna lose him.

[@finnsnow2495]

The problem with the cat one is that if you let the cat out and go into other people's garden then you habe to accept it will eat things beyond your control and be fed by other people. The EP makes the point it's her garden and honestly OP is lucky they haven't given the cat poison. Now that they pissed them off of be worried about them putting poisonous stuff in the garden to hurt the cat. They can simply claim it's pest removal or for weeds and they don't owe your cat a duty of care in their garden. They are lucky they lived in a complex that took their side but it's pretty entitled to think your cat can go anywhere and expect duty of care to be placed on it by others. Like of course you could just not feed the cat but also the cat is in their garden probably shitting in their plants and stuff.

[@606Jelly]

Totally agree. Here in the UK indoor/outdoor cats are probably still the norm (as opposed to indoor only), but cats are also regarded as "free spirits" in law...which basically means if they're taking food from someone else, tough luck. If they move in with someone else and dont come back to you, tough luck. It also means there's no legal requiment to report it if you run one over in your car, unlike with dogs, because they're not regarded as property. Folk can't have it both ways - if you think the animal is yours, then you need to supervise it or keep it in. If you think it's a free spirit, then you can't control the cat's interactions with the neighbours. If your cat hangs out (and probably poops) in someone's garden, who are you to say that they can't enjoy spending time with the cat by feeding it? If I get another cat I'll want control - and therefore outdoor access will be supervised.

[@finnsnow2495]

@@606Jelly That's so sad or doesn't get reported if you kill one but honestly even if that was a thing here people still wouldn't do it. Yeah, my cats are indoors it's safest for them, the enviorment, and although I no longer live in the city at the moment it was definitely the most respectful to the neighbours. Like yes lots of people don't mind cats hanging around, I'm one of them but not everyone is like that. Also my cat needs special food so that'd also be an issue. I think my cats are pretty happy I let them out on the harness and they enjoy open windows, when I lived in the city I even let them out on our fenced yard supervised but off the lead. I don't think they are misreable by any means which is most people's argument. I do think there are exceptions like if the area is relatively safe and the cats already been outdoors free range for most of it's life or if it's a barn cat but mostly the cats just as happy indoors as outdoors. It's like say I g the dog would be happier off lead, maybe that is true and it's also true a child would be happy with limitless candy but that doesn't mean you let them do that lol

[@sarahkuntzman3014]

I feel like kids Easter egg hunts are usually plastic eggs with the candy inside. So the candy isn't directly on the ground, but it's still there and pretty accessible for a dog to eat

[@theonlyenekoeneko]

That was a vet clinic, not a petting zoo!!

[@unapologeticallylizzy]

And even at a petting zoo, I still don't think it would be acceptable to try and ride the animals? Likes, dogs are not ride-able animals.

[@animeamm]

Hell to the no on the dog story. If I'd have been in the vets office I'd certainly have gotten the attention of a staff member and/or told the entitled father that a vet's office is a place to bring animals, and *not* a suitable place to bring a child (or adult) who isn't aware of boundaries when it comes to other people's pets. The story with the doughnut, sorry no I'd not give the kid a doughnut, mainly because, in my mind, that's both rewarding the kid for bad behaviour (stealing, even though it was done with the Mum's encouragement) and tears mean you get rewarded even if you don't say sorry [there was no mention of accepting culpability from either the Mum or her child]. Also for the others in the store who had an opinion on it, who's to say that those doughnuts weren't for OP's kids/nieces/nephews/etc? Even if all the doughnuts were for OP shops work on a first-come-first-serve basis. Easter Egg hunt should definitely have been done with little plastic eggs (alongside the organiser having a map with the placement of every single egg so as they could collect any missed ones, as the plastic could be damaging to other wildlife in the area) or lightweight stones/rocks painted in bright colours that the kids could exchange for the chocolate eggs. I'm from a family of gardeners and dog lovers with quite a number of cat haters sadly. The dislike of the cats in my family is linked to one thing: owners letting them wander wherever they like so that they come and dirty in flowerbeds and damage plants with their digging. I like cats (though I am sadly allergic to any that haven't been spayed [if my skin brushes against places they've marked their territory or I'm near their litterbox I come out in hives]) but as a domestic pet I do feel cat owners should have to follow the same kind of rules that dog owners do in regards to keeping their pet within their private property and on a leash when outside of that area. Puppies and dogs undergo training to learn this so in my opinion cat owners should have to do this with kittens and cats too.

[@aprildawnsunshine4326]

That poor kid! Mom's grooming him for crime, whether intentionally or not. Glad he saw everyone's response to her bad behavior and hopefully he'll grow up to be a good person anyway.

[@Trish620]

Its also quite rude to let the cats go into peoples yards. Even if they have their own litter boxes, they will still go in peoples garden beds ruining the soil for almost 2 years.

[@unapologeticallylizzy]

It's not rude at all. My cat goes into my neighbour's garden. My neighbour's cat comes into my garden. This is normal.

[@Trish620]

@@unapologeticallylizzy its fine if you both have each other's permission. Otherwise not okay. You can't safely eat food created in that dirt. You can get toxoplasmosis, a brain parasite.

[@orionspero560]

The thing is cats outside at all is a major league ecological catastrophe. Has been a move since the sixties to ban outside cats under international law. There is push back from those places that were at least at some point under the Is control of britain ( Note, I didn't say Great Britain). Because that group contains 5 NATO members and 2 strategic powers, it has been held up for the past three generations.

[@faithpearlgenied-a5517]

Why didn't you say Great Britain? I hope it's not because you think the Great means 'great' as in fantastic? 😂 That's not what the Great in Great Britain means. I'm going to presume you're not stupid and there's some genuine reason. Just to be disrespectful I'm guessing? like not saying the full name of the country in anyway changes anything? 😂

[@orionspero560]

@@faithpearlgenied-a5517 I was specifically not including the old country in britain for longstanding familiar political reason. It's an affectation of an old jacobite exile family.

[@orionspero560]

@@someonewithazeldaprofilephoto Written includes wales as well as england great britain includes the old country , which I was not including for historical political and familiar recents.

[@samanthamyers5719]

Ok but fun idea for the egg hunt story. Why not set up an egg hunt for the puppies! Fill the eggs with dog treats and have the dogs try and find them with their noses. This is a fun activity people already do to train dogs for scent work.

[@TransDragon]

There are cat collars, harnesses and leads to take them on walks. It's adorable!

[@penultimate225]

Cats should not be let outside at least not without supervision, many of them might flee, they are more likely to get sick or hurt and thus not live as long and they also can damage the local wildlife (birds and squirrels) We only let our cats outside if we are also in the yard to keep an eye on them

[@borealernadelwald]

With the indoor/outdoor cat debate: Yes, cats might be happier roaming outside, but so are pretty much all pets. Your caged bird, your caged hamster and your dog would all be happier living outdoors, living free. But they are also in more danger outside. Predators, diseases, cars, poison and cruel humans. If you can offer your pet adequate housing and enrichment it's a lot safer for them to live inside and most of the time they'll live a much longer life than outside. Cats do well as indoor pets - you can let them have access to a secure balcony or a catio if you have that option, but there are also other ways to give them some fresh air. A leash or like one of my acquaintances that has more skittish cats (and neither balcony nor terrace), installed a metal grate on one of her windows so the cats can safely go on the outside windowsill. And as others mentioned, they do cause a lot of harm to the population of birds and other critters. So in the end it's both, their own safety and the environment, that most cats should be indoor cats.

[@moonlit_tia]

Not even getting into the harm that cats have on wildlife and vice versa, I have seen and heard way too many people get sick enjoyment out of hurting and killing cats. This older man bragged about "playing fetch" with his dog by throwing kittens and watching them be mauled to death. I've seen cats shot for simply passing by someones garden. Too many people are comfortable with talking about killing cats because they simply don't like them. Even if cats weren't at risk of disease and other animals, I would never feel comfortable with letting my kitty go outside unsupervised. I get so worried over the thought of her getting curious one day and going to far and getting hurt or killed. She's a rescue (my dad found her drowning after bad storms, she was barely 4 weeks and coughed up water all night but survived) and she enjoys her indoor time, has only ever gotten curious a few times because we do make sure she has plenty to do inside. She also gets to go on balconies supervised (if they aren't enclosed in some way) and on a leash at times. If you want a cat and care about them you should do your best to make sure they're both safe and happy and that is possible when they're not allowed outdoors, it just takes effort.

[@GraupeLie]

Horse owner here, and I muttered to myself, hearing that first story "It's a VET'S office and it's a dog, not a horse" - but even with horses, you don't just go around putting your kid on the back of an animal that's not yours! Even if it's a pony. Even if it's actually suitable for being ridden by kids. You just DON'T. You don't even let your kids approach and touch animals they don't know. My horse is an Icelandic - small and stocky - and he's a very polite horse, but thanks to entitled parents, I always tell strangers with kids that he bites and kicks. Also...I have cats as well, and with cats as well as with horses or other animals, don't feed an animal you don't know! Don't feed without asking the owner! There might be allergies or whatever. Feeding an animal can not only make it gain weight because the owner loses control over the feeding schedule, it can also seriously harm the animal or even kill it. So don't do that. As for cats going outside - mine are indoor cats and I'm very happy about that. With enough enrichment and feline company, a cat is perfectly happy indoors, and it's a lot safer, too. Also, it's safer for the wildlife outside. But if the cat is used to going outside, keeping it in the house can definitely be difficult or even impossible, so I do see both sides here.

[@unapologeticallylizzy]

Yeah I'm pretty sure there was a story at one point where some entitled person was trying to steal/get their daughter to ride somebody else's horse. It's okay to ask, but you have to accept it if the horse owner says no.

[@mendicantcrow]

I have two cats, one who was probably an outdoor cat before we adopted him. Both our boys are obsessed with the outside! How we deal with it is taking them on daily half hour leashed walks! This lets them prowl around their neighborhood safely for a bit, and leaves them tired and happy afterwards 😊. No cats are lost, no birds are harmed, and it becomes a great way to bond with our pets

[@averyark]

I've had a neighbours' cat literally break into my house while we've been out on multiple occasions and we didnt just claim them as ours lol

[@gnatscrafts]

it’s also important to keep cats inside to protect local birds! their fluffy little selves can ruin ecosystems :(

[@jennifers5560]

Here’s a donut because your Mom is the drama!

[@1rkhachatryan]

I think if your cat has to be let outside, it should be like under your direct supervision in your backyard and not like free roaming all over the place.

[@user-rw7wz1uv9g]

My aunt has always let her cats outdoors, and all of them met grisly early deaths, ranging from freezing to death in a tree to getting hit by cars, to her husband not knowing the cats were sleeping inside the lawn mower until he turned it on. Please keep your cats indoors.

[@LITMasonEdits]

letting your cats roam around outside off a leash is not only dangerous for them but its dangerous for the local ecosystem. frankly its abuse

[@rage_of_aquarius]

About the 3rd story, in my experience, Easter egg hunts are conducted using plastic eggs with a wrapped candy placed inside. My dad would put a Reece's cup in each of the eggs before hiding them, and 90% of dogs would have no trouble sniffing that out.

[@mikna5758]

Giving the kid a donut in that situation it's reinforcing the behaviour. If the mum is not going to do the parenting, it's up to the reasonable adults around them, sadly, to teach them consequences. We don't reward bad behaviours because you cry.

[@PierceSimms]

OP with the donuts said just about what I would have said. Don't teach the kid that not only will he be rewarded for bad behaviour, but he should obey his mother without question of whether the act is right or wrong, because she will make sure he is rewarded. I think it was good that OP scared the kid, I hope that becomes a mark on him that could literally save his life one day if his mother is the kind of person who teaches her kids to steal for her. He did something wrong, and he faced consequences when the person who told him to do wrong told him he wouldn't. Trust issues aside, he should be able to start thinking about the kind of people in his life, even if it'll be years before he can control that.

[@Piccylo]

The ideal with cats is to keep them inside but take them on little walks, trips, or supervised outings in the yard. They're invasive species for most environments people have them in, and it's very possible for them to get hurt as well, but they have a natural territory that's far larger than a house and average yard, so little excursions is good for their stress. Little neighborhood walks might also help them be able to learn the area so they're less likely to get lost if they do get out. This isn't always feasible, though. A cat who *wants* out *will* get out, and a cat who *wants* to sprint away likely will find a way.

[@kaimactrash]

Keeping your pet cat safe is a great reason to keep them indoors, but it's also very good for the local environment. Cats over hunt and have lead to multiple native species around the globe being whipped out entirely. Supervising pets outdoors should be the norm, domestic cats have a mental level of young children and we don't just trust kids to go wander around wherever they want as long as they like.

[@susanharris6959]

Always makes my day when new Shaaba posts!❤🎉, If the guy gave the child a donut, then he would think that behavior is acceptable when it is not. He did things right!

[@JamiJR]

Cats belong indoors unless you have them harness trained for walking.

[@MsBlulucky]

omg these stories are _infuriating_ ! dog riding: if you can't leave sick pets alone, then a vet's office is the last place on earth you should be in! donut stealing: wtf? of course the mum was unreasonable af after prompting her son to steal, but did other people really expect OP to _reward_ that kid for trying to steal?! cat feeding: cats wander and sometimes people feed them which I wouldn't deem wrong per se. But if the owner (and the owner is the one who legally bought/adopted the cat, gives it food, love, and shelter reliably, and pays the vet bill if the cat is sick - not the one who gives the cat occasional treats) tells you to stop feeding the cat for whatever reason, you stop feeding the cat. Easy as that, why would anyone even feel the need to discuss this?! As the owner of a cat with special dietary needs I would certainly hope that no one ever tries to feed my cat with food that can potentially harm her.

[@roselover411]

In the US, rural areas and small towns have less of an issue with cats going outside. But in urban areas and large towns+, it's highly discouraged to let your cats go outside off leash to roam. They cause a lot of damage to local wildlife and with so many cars constantly around, they're in danger just wandering around. If you want to let your cat outside, you either put them on a leash or you have an outdoor playpen they can't get out of (like a catio).

[@kika0427]

We made our outdoor cats, house cats after moving, because we were worried they would try to escape back to the old house and - one thing I don't think people mention enough - kept getting sick/worms because of the small animals and birds they would catch and eat, plus our neighbours had big dogs - and they were more stressed about the change of house than the fact that they were no longer able to go outside. I think as long as a cat has enough stimulation with toys and such, food, water, and a litter tray, they can be kept inside even if they were previously allowed out.

[@cathleenc6943]

The dog has every reason to be there, but if a child is not well behaved and good with animals, the parent should not be bringing their child with them to the vet's office. I would have liked to hear that OP complained about the man, and even the oblivious and unhelpful staff members.

[@dstrctd]

My dad hates cats, so we never had one when I was a kid. A kitten showed up on our doorstep when I was about 10, and my mum and I fed it and called him Casper. After a few months he disappeared, and I later realised that our next door neighbour had adopted him as an indoor cat. (Because I would see him in the window) At the time I was grumpy at them for stealing “my” cat, but when I grew up I realised that being an indoor cat was a much better life than never being allowed inside at ours. (This story has a happy ending for me and Mum too, because I’ve had cats since I moved out, and Mum and Dad separated last year and Mum got a kitten the first time she saw an adoption drive. She’s making plans for a catio.)

[@cuartemi6582]

I grew up in a place with a lot of moose, and if you didn’t know, their poop is pretty spot on in size and shape of those little foil wrapped chocolate eggs. I knew a kid who wasn’t old enough to realize the eggs he was hunting for should have foil on them, and he did not have a great Easter that year

[@morganstiefvater2019]

I wouldn't have given the kid a donut, but I would have said I was sorry that he had to deal with his mother.

[@PinkApocalypse]

In my state in Australia you actually legally can’t have your cat roam or on other peoples property without permission, you can have your cat seized. Cats are also very bad for native species if allowed out freely! Most people I know either have indoor only cats, or walk their cats on a leash like I do hehe

[@ravennocturne4145]

the world should implement this

[@hailhex]

the thing with letting cats outside is that it's MAJORLY awful for the environment, like to the extent that it can potentially lead to the destruction of entire local ecosystems. domesticated cats are not part of the natural wildlife / ecosystem of any area and therefore any mark they leave on it by roaming about and doing whatever is detrimental

[@ravennocturne4145]

it's also extremely dangerous for the cats due to cats and potential predators

[@pebbleshy]

I could never have a free roaming cat again, even if it was what I grew up with. First of all I care way too much about its health and wellbeing and don't want it to get sick, run over by a car or get in the hands of ill intended people. Following that I also realised that maybe some of those people that don't want cats in their garden have good reasons for that and are entitled to it, as much as Im entitled to not having other peoples dogs running into my garden, so a matter of common courtesy and respect going both ways. Lastly the domestic cat is very damageing to the wildlife and while cats are my absolute favorite animal and I would never blame a cat for doing what cats do, I can't completely ignore all the small native birds and critters, that I do also care about. It also just strikes me as weird that cats are somehow the exception, when everyone agree that every other household animal/pet can't just freeroam, with some being very severely limited in acting out their natural behaviour and movement, such as rabbits, which are often kept in way too small cages. Currently live in a flat on the second floor with my cat that has never been outside. The dream is to one day have a garden and then getting the ideal compromise: a catio.

[@Below.average.version]

in my country (Australia) cats shouldn't go beyond property bounderies as they kill a lot of native wildlife. So its more for their protection rather than the cats.

[@hyperplaguerat]

My cat gets supervised trips outside only. She's been an indoor kitty her whole life and is still healthy at 12 years old.

[@sheenaghm3053]

As a vet nurse, I still remember the first time I saw a cat who had been hit by a car, and I'll never forget it. Over the years I've seen outdoor cats who have been hit by cars, poisoned (deliberately by cruel humans, or secondary rodenticide toxicity), mauled by dogs, involved in cat fights resulting in abscesses/FIV infection, shot with an air gun, etc. They also cause so many wildlife injuries and deaths and, as I'm in Australia, we're seeing local councils enforcing stricter laws around cat ownership to protect our native wildlife (overnight or 24-hour curfews). My cats are all indoor cats, with plenty of enrichment and a catio.

[@myrrysmiasi4866]

my cat slipped out of the window for 20 min before I noticed and when I found her she had already hunted two voles :c gonna be much more careful going forward. We take her out on a leash for at least an hour combined every day because she's easily bored and will make it very known :P but even on a leash there's been some close calls where I've had to make her let go of a bird or mouse. As soon as our landlord fixes our gate I'm building a catio and hopefully she will be more able to entertain herself... edit: also, when I was a kid we had a cat that was let outside whenever he wanted. My mom wouldn't believe our neighbor that the cat was regularly pooping in her garage and I still feel super embarrased about that! You might think you know exactly where your cat is going outside but unless you're keeping a *constant* eye on them you really can't know.

[@emmafischell622]

Same for my cat! He managed to get outside for a short amount of time and killed at least one chipmunk in that time. I make sure to play with him more now and he seems happy to stay indoors so I haven't needed to harness train him yet

[@Kat-uu4jc]

As someone with an Assistance Dog, I’ve encountered a lot of situations with my dog especially with kid who’s parents either aren’t watching them or just refuse to do anything about the situation. My pup is of course, very good with kids and when training her I did a lot of desensitisation and training for things like grabbing her tail, standing over the top of her, playing with her mouth, touching her teeth, hugging her around the waist etc. to prepare her to accept these things if they happened. In saying that, while I know she is good with these things, I would never ever allow anyone to DO any of those things to her if I could help it. I’ve had to physically stand in front of my dog and block people and kids from getting to her, I’ve had to slap (adults) hands away from her and physically remove a kid who was latched onto her waist (the kid came up behind us so I didn’t see them until it was too late) and because my pup is tall (about half my height) and the ‘perfect’ height for a small kid to sit on, I’ve had adults suggest their kids could ride her as well as kids try. I absolutely would’ve done what OP did it that situation or even been more aggressive about it. I will physically move away from people if we’re stuck somewhere like in an office or line I will change seats or move to the back of the cue while giving the parents a glaring look if I don’t feel comfortable chewing them out with words. For situations like a drs office or vets where you are seated, my dog has a command where she tucks underneath my legs so that if anyone wants to get to get they have to go through my first and you can guarantee they’ll be getting a kick from me if they ignore me when I ask them to move away. I think the strangest interaction I’ve had with a stranger was a grown ass adult male who saw my dog and I walking in the grocery store and picked up a pre-packaged bag of lettuce and slid it full speed across the floor in front of us. My pup does do some guide work (I am not visually impaired but have dizziness/faints and become overwhelmed in busy/loud environments so she’s very used to guiding me around obstacles and getting me out of a store, to a seat or quiet area etc. To my pup’s credit, the bag a lettuce didn’t trip her up at all, she simply saw it coming and stepped over it and then moved to the side and stopped to alert me to the obstacle on the ground and then continued on like it was just a regular day 😂. The guy who threw the lettuce was a bit disappointed at her lack of reaction 🤷‍♀️ Just to say, that people are absolutely wild and can act so entitled towards your animals (especially dogs) and think that they are owed pats or entertainment. My pup loves people because I don’t ever put pressure on her or put her in a situation where I know she will be uncomfortable or where something might go wrong - because it’s not dogs that are ‘unpredictable’, it’s people. I regularly tell people they can’t approach or pat my dog even when she’s not working because it means when my pup is around people or in a busy environment she doesn’t feel as though someone could come over into her personal space and grab at her at any time. We have a very specific routine and command for meeting/greeting people to get pats, treats etc. And she knows that if that routine and command doesn’t happen then I will throw myself in front of her, put myself between them and physically move hands away from her. When we go to so many new different and novel places that most pet dogs never see (think an elevator, carnival rides, haunted house, hospital etc.) it’s so incredibly important that she has unwavering trust in me that I can control the situation and the environment around us. Especially with ANY animal in a vets office - you should never approach and especially teach your kids that. Typically animals that are in that office are feeling unwell, usually in pain and in a scary/difficult environment which is when an animal is MORE likely to be stressed and their behaviour unpredictable. That ‘father’ is just asking for his kid to get bit and he’d be the type of person to try to sue the dog owner and have the dog put down too 😤

[@heyna1185]

My biggest issue with cats going outside is their impact on local bird (and other endangered animals) populations. If it was just for the cat's own safety, I don't really think I'd have a strong opinion on it but I believe we have a responsibility towards our environment and that includes keeping cats indoors (or finding other ways to make sure they don't cause harm to endangered animals).

[@turbgar]

Also as a little fyi since this was longer than I intended - I sometimes come across as being mean or rude with my wording but I do not intend that way - it's just something I have spent a lot of years researching and learning about cats health, nutrition and other stuff so I am quite passionate and to the point about it - not trying to make anyone feel bad. I have friends who let their cats out and it's their choice, I don't treat them different or think less of them. It's not hard to enrich your cats inside your house. Some places legally consider letting your cat free-roam neglect, same as with a dog. People don't let dogs free roam so I don't see where thinking cats should free roam came from... They should have cat trees and hides at home even if they were going out. And games that make them move with their parents(wand toys, springs etc), even just hiding treats and having them hunt them. There's so many things to do to make your cat both happy AND stay healthy and safe, I will never understand someone claiming they love their cats then let them free roam outside. Even if there isn't a sudden trauma, it shortens their life span and causes health issues. My childhood cat was an outdoor cat, as I was a kid with no control over it, and he died at 8 years old after 4+ years of arthritis so bad he couldn't stand without daily meds. Vet confirmed it was from spending so much time outside, climbing and jumping, that he got it so severely in all 4 limbs by such a young age. My current cats are a larger mix and indoor only, without on a leash with me for walks, and they still act like kittens and have no chronic health issues. I understand genetics and diet play a role as well, however none of my other younger cats have had issues either. This is the first time I never had to bring a cat to the vet for more than their vaccines spay/neuter. And beyond the pet parent-ness, cats are not natural anywhere. There are many species of bugs and birds that are literally extinct because of domestic cats. :( not worth. save the bees.

[@weaverliss7522]

Between cars, dogs/coyotes, birds of prey, & other people it’s a really bad idea to let cats roam outside. That and they do a ton of damage to your local bid population. Screened in patios, going on leashed walks and supervising them in a fenced in area are all pretty good alternatives to free roaming.

[@silverghostcat1924]

People who let their cats free roam are irresponsible! Even more so if the cat gets hurt and is still allowed to roam. Wildlife aside, it's terrible pet stewardship. There are horrible people, cars, and while cats are predators they are also prey animals. If you love your cat keep it inside or a safe enclosure outside.

[@heatherbc7914]

Tbh, it's pretty entitled to let your cat outside to do its business in other people's gardens, i've had to spend so much money on cat deterrents and other things to keep them from using my vegetable beds as latrines. That's not to mention the environmental damage and the risk to the cats themselves.

[@callumkrueger6620]

The main thing for me with the last story is... if you have an outdoor cat, you forfeit control over what it eats. Period. It's going to hunt, it's going to come across food scaps on the sidewalk, it might get into the trash, and, yes, neighbors might feed it. Of course, lady who said "oh but this is my cat bc it comes to my house" is entitled, but so is op for not realizing the extent to which their cat is not under their control.

[@neverlandhunter6988]

Agree completely. I understood what Shaaba was trying to get at with her "no feeding kids" analogy, but unattended children should be mature/old enough to know not to accept food from strangers and if they are coming over to the neighbors house every day to eat, it probably means their home has some type of food insecurity. Cats are animals not children. And your cat has a dietary restriction? Maybe you shouldn't be letting it out where it can eat up parasite ridden mice, human leftovers, and toxic plants.

[@user-fr6zt6jx6y]

In my experience, hidden eggs are usually plastic eggs with chocolate or other small candy or prizes inside. Hiding them in the immediate vicinity of the dog park seems unnecessarily risky, but it's probably not loose chocolates on the ground.

[@Camrela]

Bird thing aside. There are Coyotes and cars that go way too fast in my area. Even had a cat that was killed by a hawk when we were kids. So mine are staying inside. ❤

[@200Misaki002]

I remember many a story of people letting their cats come and go as they please and then they suddenly just never comeback, my grat aunt is a great example of that and the guy that was getting new cats every time the coyotes would eat them. It's not included about cats been hit by cars or taken by other people, they can get into fights with other outdoor cats, they can eat poisoned things or just something that's not great for them, they can get parasites, fleas, ticks, among other things. I'm pretty sure there have been studies where it has been proven that cats that have free access to the outdoors usually have shorter lives than those who are strictly indoors cats (or with outside catios and leash walks).

[@Asongbook]

#1 dogs don't have the musculature to give kids rides. Cat people if neighbor claims cat, invoice them for half the vet bills

[@rachelann9362]

Former vet tech and full time receptionists, yes. We hear that phone when we aren’t at work. I dreamed it. I dreamed it for YEARS after my last day. I’d still have conversations IN MY DREAMS with difficult clients, the sad sad calls. I wouldn’t have stopped the phone call i was in, but I would have put them on hold for a moment to say something to the dad. If my call ended, I’d let it ring and have a word, take back to an empty room if we had one. But that man absolutely would get an earful. Heck as someone waiting, I’d have to have a word with him. I have pitbulls, so I have learned one needs to advocate for your pet. I have great difficulty advocating for myself, but I absolutely will set FIRM boundaries for my pets.

[@meowcoww]

In Australia, there are areas where you are not allowed to let your cats outside because they are such a huge threat to the native endangered wildlife. There are also areas where certain poisons are used to kill pests that the cats need to be protected from. I so want for cats to be able to be free, but at this point I just see at as deeply irresponsible for where I live.

[@elizabethbertucci9313]

That’s the kid who won’t see a problem swiping anything from anyone. Other students, teacher’s desk, … That parent is raising a future larcenist.

[@TV-1997]

I mean how were they supposed to know it's not a stray / abandoned cat if it was constantly wandering around their house? People feeding and taking in stray cats is very common AND it's another risk you're taking on by letting you cat outside without supervision imo 🤷‍♀️

[@kira7of10]

We have the occasional coyote in my neighborhood and cats have disappeared. Not a good idea to let small animals roam free.

[@Dragonspeak30]

We have wild animals and maniac drivers in my neighborhood...my cat stays inside

[@SageRue]

Frowing up we had a cat, my parents got him when he was already 18 months old and used to going outside, they originally intended to keep him inside but he would do whatever he could to get out so eventually we got a cat flap because keeping him in caused visible distress. He lived to 17.5 years old. We then got a new cat. She was a kitten when we got her, and we once again intended on keeping her indoors. But again, she showed very clear signs that she wanted to be outdoors. So we started using the cat flap again and she lived to 12 years old (dying of cancer, we where told by the vet that her being an outdoor cat is very unlikely to have increased the likelihood of this). Now my parents have two kittens, and intend on keeping them both indoors. It is clear that they are both far less smart than the other cats where at this age and we dont think it would be safe to let them out. BUT, if keeping them indoors causes any sign of distress we would let them out. Our priority as cat owners has always been quality of life. We want them to live happy lives above all else.

[@princessofhell4639]

Yes thank you!! Our last cat went outside and lived till 19. And our current one will literally claw at the curtains in my room to let me know when they want to go outside.

[@giki42]

"You wouldn't feed someone's child randomly in the park" Come to Indiana, if there is a cookout in the park and you are in said park, they will offer you food basically until you at least take something (generally smaller towns)

[@lianneosullivan6535]

I've got cats and keep them indoors; i can't imagine the anxiety of letting them roam near main roads and people can also be very cruel to cats. I have loads of cat furniture and shelves for them to climb, a cat wheel to run in and plenty of toys and they're happy lil beans.

[@roxyleighsmith6601]

I definitely would have given the kid a donut, but I'd have said to him "remember not to take things without asking". The mother clearly wasn't teaching him the correct way to behave so 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@somethinunameit637]

18:41 so idea for cat and home owners. If you have a second floor deck, you can fence in the area under the deck, put in grass, cat stimuli out door toys and allow your cat to freely be in the out door space. The fencing will keep kitty in and wild life out. (Bonus points if you have a lower level window that opens up to that space)

[@salty_pearl]

Never EVER let a child try to touch, let alone ride, an animal they don't know without owner consent. (TW) When my mom was a girl, she tried riding a neighbor's dog in this exact fashion and it bit her whole nose off. Even if this dog was a collie (assuming based on "Lassie") which are usually pretty good natured herding dogs, don't take the risk. Absolutely baffling!

[@ari-cu6ql]

About the easter egg hunting: in Germany it is custom to hide chocolate eggs and real painted eggs in small baskets outside. So they aren't plastic but they also usually don't get muddy. Unless your child doesn't find them... 😂

[@afineblueline]

In the donut incident I think OP was right not to give that kid a donut. At least someone in this situation was willing to parent that kid. I'm sorry for the kid though, not because of the lack of donut, but because it gets a bad start in this world in not being prepared for life.

[@anniespring8986]

The irony of the dad saying a dog that’s not good with kids shouldn’t be at the vet is that even if the dog was reactive that is the only place you would have to bring it anyway. Not to mention otherwise reliable dogs can lash out under stress or when injured so its generally a good idea to just give dogs at the vet space because even a really sweet dog could behave in ways the owner doesn’t anticipate under stress.