She Was Rejected with a 516 MCAT... Two Years in a Row. Why? | Application Renovation (S3 E13)

[@lynnemessner4187]

Ridiculous unrealistic demands for anyone. She is trying to get into medical school, not save the world single handedly! She has a good GPA, MCAT scores, clinical experience, volunteer time, interests outside of medicine and personal interest in medicine. In addition, she has to guess at whatever is relatable to the person reading her essay. The expectations for admission to medical school are superhuman and cruel.

[@lynnemessner4187]

In addition, the AAMC has predicted, within the next decade there will be a 55,000 to 100,000 physicians deficit in the USA. This includes primary care as well as specialties. It takes anywhere from 7 to 8 years to become a primary care physician, 2 to 6+ years as a specialist. So, the math demonstrates, we need to educate/train more students now! The current elitist system needs to get over themselves and admit the more students, like the talented, qualified student in this video.

[@breynoso19]

I agree. It's unrealistic and ridiculous.

[@Bejman13]

At the end of the day, medical schools cannot accept class sizes of 500 students. There just is not enough medical resources, faculty, and patients to accommodate huge class sizes like that. Everyone wants to me a doctor, but the reality is that they can only accept so many students into their program to give everyone the best education they can get. Obviously, everyone wants it to be much easier to get accepted into medical school. But the reality is that it is not feasible from the schools perspective to accept everyone with a 3.5 GPA and a 510+ MCAT score.

[@marvelousscript95]

@@Bejman13 I agree. To add on, medical schools can only accept so much if residency spots remains the same. It is not worth it to enter medical school and unfortunately not end up getting matched into residency.

[@BANYHU123]

@@lynnemessner4187 one of the reasons why PAs and NPs I think will be playing a larger role in the medical field in the years to come.

[@JenRob1109]

I think what Dr. Gray was getting at with the borderline GPA is that her GPA may be borderline for the school list she had. She applied to a lot of top 20 schools that are looking for 3.8+ GPA for a 514 MCAT score.

[@thephoenix7090]

i think so as well because normally he would say a 3.66 is a good gpa

[@joeburreaux7953]

Anyone else find it disturbing that a 3.66 GPA and 516 MCAT gets you rejected *twice*? Those aren't horrible stats.

[@Maureen-MO]

But wait, how many others are applying with those SAME stats for the same sits as her. Average applicants to a school is 7,000 or so and I’m not saying everyone accepted has better stats than her but showing two stats is not all going to get you in. Even if you have less stats, having other aspects that show high readiness is going to get you in compared to those with her stats, can’t tell their story and maybe her interviews weren’t the best either. You just can’t play the whole series on two stats. She gotta show up and explain herself.

[@GlamGoddes101]

they really aren’t but I guess this shows how important the writing parts of the application really are, they must weigh those parts heavily

[@tybera1114]

They're great stats. Medical schools don't let people in on stats alone, that ship has sailed long ago. We're not in the 1990's anymore. With that personal statement I'm not disturbed at all.

[@ShinySephiroth1]

@@tybera1114 I'm disturbed that Dr. Gray himself said a 3.66 is "potentially borderline" and said it might not hurt to take more classes.

[@GlorWolf]

@@ShinySephiroth1 a 3.66 is below average for matriculating students

[@TheToxicMegacolon]

It's fucking pathetic how med school applications are. She deserves to get into medical school. The kind-hearted people with solid GPAs and MCATs are being rejected while the cutthroat arrogant and fake ass people become doctors. Every 10 doctors I meet, I think only 2-3 actually seem to smile all the time and rest look miserable asf. It's saddening. It's not them, it's the med school app process that's fucked up.

[@intaxi99]

AMEN

[@scholaroftheworldalternatehist]

Most people do it for the money

[@雪底下]

I really don't think you watched the whole video, the personal statement was the real reason she didn't get in. She didn't answer the question correctly, and that's why she was rejected so often.

[@noortamim840]

These are so depressing to watch honestly

[@lickinglemons2358]

lmao

[@Th3Fr3m]

I'm a upcoming 4th year med student and I don't know why I'm watching this.

[@kansasmypie6466]

dr grays titles are getting more savage by the day

[@mreemzo9099]

i love it lol

[@nataliaorso1649]

😂

[@lauraflores3278]

They scare me lol

[@lynnterrific]

Right! 😂

[@Project0066]

I think one of the best pieces of advice I've been given through applying and writing a personal statement has come from my mentor (plus everything Dr. Gray has been saying). She reviewed my personal statement several times and she kept coming back to me with: how is this a personal statement for medical school? What makes this different from an application for nursing school, graduate school or PA school? And I think that's what Dr. Gray keeps getting at with "why do you wanna be a doctor?" Like yes, you want to help people, we all do. But there's plenty of other ways to help people (i.e. EMT, nurse, volunteering, etc.), so why medicine and why a physician? It's a very difficult question to answer, and I'm still working on how to address it in a meaningful way.

[@medcatmcat]

If anyone doesn't believe how competitive it is to get into medical school these days, show them this video...❗

[@jason_v12345]

I'm not an aspiring doctor, but as a patient, I want my personal doctors to have skills, knowledge, and to love science. I could honestly care less about whatever childhood trauma "inspired" them to become one.

[@maameoforiwaaamoahdankwah2847]

‼️

[@thesneakygamer4343]

That’s a big issue a lot of people have writing an app

[@DementedEeyore64]

So do you want a doctor with the skills to be a doctor, but DOESNT want to be one? Or one with the skills who AND wants to be one? I dont know your answer, but I sure know mine.

[@jason_v12345]

@@DementedEeyore64 Setting aside how unlikely it is that a doctor who achieves a high degree of knowledge and skill at being a doctor does not also possess a desire to be one, my answer to your question is: "No. I do not care whether a doctor likes his job."

[@DementedEeyore64]

@@jason_v12345 That's a stupid answer because then your life depends on someone who doesn't care whether not you live. Medical Schools obviously know this distinction and you don't. Thank god you're not the one making decisions. "unlikely it is that a doctor who achieves a high degree of knowledge and skill at being a doctor does not also possess a desire to be one" -- Thats not unlikely at all. It happens all the time, but obviously you too ill-informed and dense to know that.

[@nicholashaynes3483]

Wow this is very illuminating. My first reaction when seeing the title of the video was "Med school admissions is BS" - but then I took the time to read the personal statement and it makes complete sense why she didn't get in - her PS doesn't seem like someone who is ready to dedicate their whole life to medicine - it seems like someone who is peripherally aware of an interest in medicine but has not reflected upon it fully - just surprised to see that med schools really do care a lot about the PS. Thank you Dr. Gray!

[@GlamGoddes101]

i agree, someone people are really shocked she didn't get in but u can actually start to understand why when u listen to dr gray critique her statement

[@JoeG2324]

lol, you actually think they sit there and read that personal statement? no, they look at your MCAT, GPA and race.Then, they determine if they have too many whites already because they need to fill other diversity quotas. The whole system is fucked up beyond fucked up.

[@nicholashaynes3483]

@@JoeG2324 hmmm, well I doubt it’s as crude as that - but I understand being bitter about the process, as it is definitely flawed - I just want to get into med school, practice medicine, and never look back on the horrible process of med school admissions

[@googleboogle5120]

If all the applicants are like you then accepting the whites only will cause nonwhites to travel overseas to get flu medication.

[@ShinySephiroth1]

A 3.66 GPA is "potentially borderline" but then in Ask the Dean they laugh when people are worried when they had a 3.4 GPA? I am confusion.

[@dominicl456]

The math almost as wild as mcat physics

[@Russianboyz95]

it depends on the schools you're targeting.

[@ShinySephiroth1]

@@Russianboyz95 I was wondering if there were qualifiers for this specific request for this specific student (low credit hours, types of schools applied to, etc). With that, and I hope this is the case, Dr. Gray should have made made those qualifiers explicit for the audience. I'm crossing my fingers.

[@Russianboyz95]

@@ShinySephiroth1 A 3.66 overall GPA is below average for a lot of the schools on her list (all mid-upper tier MD). On the other hand, a 3.4 is perfectly fine for DO. So I guess it depends on whether you want to just become a doctor by any means possible or get into a strong MD school. Also it depends on the rest of your application, if you have some amazing story or activity then schools will look past a weaker gpa etc.

[@ShinySephiroth1]

@@Russianboyz95 Right, so I was hoping that would have been stated in the video. For one, I listen to these "podcast style" while working. I don't remember him stating any correlation between her schools and his recommendation to improve GPA. Further, if that were the case why didn't he address this stats based issue with her a recommendation to change her school list for more accepting schools? I thought the point was to get into med school instead of getting into a bogus "competitive" aka elite one. And none of this frustration is to you, btw - you're awesome for taking time out to help me process this. I'm just a little frustrated and confused and, honestly, scared! Haha!

[@tyaoliver767]

I love watching these because its interesting BUT as an accepted student who basically ignored all classical wisdom on this, I feel like a big thing that is left unsaid in this process is there is no magic formula to acceptance. Your absolute best bet is to use that application to show who your are as a PERSON. Not as stats or activity descriptions or anything like that. Just be your best you!

[@evangelinagarcia9336]

Congratulations queen! Thanks for the advice

[@jackreaction8502]

This is the answer! You go black queen❤

[@joslinnick]

I think that the entire reason she was rejected was because she forgot the apostrophe before the "s" in the first sentence at 7:26.

[@noahboucher54]

so true, i served 14 years on adcoms across the country and insta denied anyone with grammatical errors

[@Hi-qt2nj]

I was actually thinking the same thing.

[@danielogbonna7972]

Reading the story this applicant wrote for their "Human Anatomy Peer Mentoring" role, I agree with Dr. Gray, loved it. As someone who is drafting their activity descriptions that was a great example of what one should include. It was simple, meaningful, and brief. Personally, the story made me smile. With the advice Dr. Gray gave this applicant, I'm fully confident this applicant will get into med school -- with a few revisions to their descriptions and personal statement. Again, a great video with great advice. Appreciate the insight!

[@daltoncraven6149]

Is shadowing all that important if she had great clinical experiences already? She had a lot of research, volunteer, and clinical hours - does it actually matter if she shadowed a long time ago? I'd argue no and I don't think an admissions officer would think twice about it

[@JimMilton-gp9op]

It’s clearly not because she did get 2 interviews. Maybe she didn’t do so well in the interview process

[@jessicarivera4302]

I can't blame her, I don't remember a single thing from 10 yrs old. Then again, life wasn't so bright and shiny at the time so I can see how maybe my brain is purposely trying to forget lol. Wishing her luck!

[@dma67111]

Writing is definitely difficult. I’ve been creating many drafts for two weeks. Am finally at the ending. Now just finessing the grammar structure

[@AjaySensei]

Bro it took me like 20+ drafts to get my PS done. Way harder than I thought it would be but at least I have no regrets.

[@MatthewKGarr]

How many times is he gonna say “You’re explaining how you can be a doctor and not why you want to be a doctor” without telling us how to rephrase those examples or sentences?? Each of these is like 30 minutes of tearing down and no building up or guidance

[@milly.adam3196]

Because it changes per person why they want to be a doctor, and you cannot rephrase what she said, you would have to rewrite it completely

[@jordy6636]

This. I truly am grateful he's giving out all of this free advice, but I'm really struggling to apply it. To be honest, a lot of the advice seems almost a bit contradictory. "Use stories to tell me why you want to be a physician!" **uses story of experience that inspired me to be a physician** "Wrong! I asked why do YOU want to be physician."

[@what_do_you_want898]

he explains good examples in his book

[@MatthewKGarr]

@@what_do_you_want898 i don’t wanna buy a book after watching hours of his videos

[@what_do_you_want898]

@@MatthewKGarr yea same lol

[@mr.ssj3847]

honestly his issues with her application are like really small things. She should have been accepted to a medical school. I think she had everything that a med school could look for in a person.

[@shlorwhor19]

never clicked on a video so fast IM SCARED

[@mindfullyme4316]

Hi !! I want to introduce myself, I see you in Dr.Grays comments a lot and I just wanted to say good luck on your med school journey. I’m hoping we both get in :)

[@shlorwhor19]

@@mindfullyme4316 Aww THANK YOU and you too!!! We can do this :)

[@skyblossom2386]

Any updates? Do y'all get in?

[@shlorwhor19]

Yes, I'm second year now!! Time flies :)@@skyblossom2386

[@Taylor-ex8nl]

A glaring issue is a complete lack of non-clinically-related community service. Her only community service is medically-related, which is something we do for ourselves in part to gain experience and make sure we want to pursue this career. Non-clinical volunteering is something you do purely for other people, and the admissions committees want to see this as well. Her PS and her lack of general volunteering + school list are the problems

[@edwardheaney3641]

What about the choir fundraiser?

[@gaberivera7228]

I don't think the sales pitching here and there throughout her extra curricular activities is that bad IMO. I doubt adcoms are going through her app with that amount of scrutiny but I mean who really knows honestly.

[@grandselenium296]

I knew a friend and he had like very avg mcat and GPA. Turns out he got 8 interviews and 1 acceptance. Acceptance was because of connections. He wasn't rich, just had connections. That's how you do it folks...

[@kexz6926]

Yeh but that 8 interviews still mean something.

[@malavdave8]

Why is a story better than a sales pitch or a small description for your role in the work and activities section? Why are we advised not to talk about the skills we learned and have introspection, but just write a small story instead?

[@ruhanfarsin2479]

Because the whole application is a sales pitch, the reader knows why you are applying, they want to know about you as a person, when the class size is only 100-200 students they want to make sure those students are driven and excited to go into medicine while still being unique in their own right. It's fairly easy to tell what skills you develop based on your experiences, no need to spend half of your description writing it out, it wastes words and the reader's time.

[@sandrameesala6804]

I think its more of showing than telling. Stories show the evidence of your potential and the skills you have.

[@trevorerb7709]

@@sandrameesala6804 This! As hard as it already is to stand out on an application, you have a significantly higher chance of having something similar to everyone else if you just write basic skills such as: I am compassionate, or my responsibilities were... It is much better to write anecdotally because while everyone may have very similar skills, the stories they can write to convey these skills are much more unique to themselves. This way, while you technically aren't standing out "skills" wise on an application, the person reading will be much more invested. Which definitely improves your chances of your application being memorable enough to earn that interview invite.

[@abrahamkim2304]

Nothing like a bunch of 18-22 year old premeds in the comments to speak with unearned authority on something they still haven’t even gone through lol

[@UserUser-cy6gh]

What is it mean to be borderline? Do medical school typically reject students with 3.5 science GPAs specifically for their GPAs?

[@mahiyae1562]

Idk about 3.5 but some school do have like automatic gpa cutoffs

[@rohannaterry7288]

To my understanding a 3.5 is the bare minimum to even be considered, a 3.7 would make you competitive.

[@bradley3157]

depends on how competitive the schools you are applying to

[@what_do_you_want898]

@rohanna terry not true. he has several videos of students with ~3.1-3.3 getting accepted and the MSAR also shows this

[@joy_nia]

Do watering events for the PS have to be “clinical”? I wrote about tutoring because it had a meaningful impact on me but I don’t want to run into an issue of not talking enough about my clinical experience

[@raynapatel8875]

i was wondering the same thing!

[@kmp8563]

Yeah I'm in the same boat. I haven't been able to do any clinical work thanks to covid, and virtual shadowing is more informative than meaningful.

[@ahhmani]

I wrote briefly about tutoring (only one paragraph) and tied what I learned/valued from that experience into my clinical experience in the following paragraph. Then I wrapped it all up in the final paragraph and tied it back to my introductory paragraph as well. But don’t focus too much on the tutoring otherwise it will be like, so why didn’t you become a teacher then? Emphasize how what you learned from being a tutor tied into your clinical experience and how both these experiences made you want to pursue medicine. Make this last point very clear in your PS.

[@shauntp3692]

it seems like it is better to write actual proof of skill development and the impact one makes in the experience descriptions, rather than literally saying "this skill I had was further developed due to this experience".

[@ashleymagee236]

Instead of the "cliches" and "sales pitches" what is a good way to conclude and tie an experience back to relevancy?

[@noneofyourdamnbuisness3484]

I thought she was gonna say she was 3 or something when her mom got breast cancer and that's why she didn't wanna talk about it, but 10? that's more than old enough to understand what's happening and sounds way more impactful than dance. My grandpa had stage 3c colorectal cancer when I was like 5 and I remember that (prob didn't understand, but remember). I think if she focuses on that she will get in next cycle (at least I hope).

[@thephoenix7090]

normally i hear that dr. gray say a 3.5 above is fine and not say it's alright, but this 3.66 he made it sound so bad

[@conservativearabgirl5273]

it's the schools shes applying too, most are t20's that are looking for 3.9 gpas. i wonder why she didn't apply to some DO schools? If that was my GPA i absolutely would, knowing how competitive medical school is.

[@davidsoto4394]

Can someone replace Physics and Calculus with Statistics for prereques for medical school if someone is not good at math or was not given the oppertunity to take Physics, and Calculus in highschool?

[@sharonmills1013]

Anyone else bothered by her grammatical errors at 5:51-her description of her job as an Anesthesia Assistant?

[@janem8331]

I feel like she should have applied to some DO schools

[@jeann3860]

I know some people they really don't like DO schools.

[@lilliehayes6815]

Note for myself: Anatomy peer mentor activity, sorority - show impact through numbers.

[@adaezenjoku7527]

could it possibly be that she had no leadership listed on her application? except for the one example that wasn’t actually leadership

[@elizabethmerlinsky8190]

What is your opinion on including a passion towards something that is not medically-related in your personal statement if it factored into the reflection on what career to pursue? For example, I like languages, so in high school I had a dilemma between languages and sciences. Later on, an illness of a family member “planted the seed” and made me pursue medicine

[@GlorWolf]

is showing impact through numbers acceptable in a clinical experience (covid testing)?

[@joy_nia]

Wondering the same!

[@sergiootero5904]

It was a hot summer evening, as most in SoCal tend to be. Streams of sweat run down my body as I am essentially wearing a sauna suit like a boxer trying to cut weight before a title bout; unfortunately, I didn't have the Eye of the Tiger but a Q-tip that I have put into literally hundreds of nostrils for the last 3 months.

[@americangirllover490]

@@sergiootero5904 amazing

[@sergiootero5904]

@@americangirllover490 Did I get in?

[@flora7447]

I DONT GET IT!? Why didn’t she get in she had good stats. That personal statement was oof but still everything else was more or less okay righttt.

[@briannaolson4391]

Personal statement is really important! Shouldn’t be underestimated when there are so many applicants from every stats range. Stats check the box, personal statement and activities and story things are what differentiate you

[@tylerbielinski1933]

School list. Should’ve added more “safety” schools

[@what_do_you_want898]

schools get literally 1000s of applications of students good stats and only have about 50-100 seats. so they have to get really picky.

[@davidsoto4394]

Are you allowed to work as a scribe from home?

[@youngdudefromcali529]

I know this is off topic but do you think it’s a bad idea having an undergrad in nursing then applying to med school after some work experience and the perquisites are met?

[@tarunchandrasekar1220]

Late af but no not a bad idea.

[@noahboucher54]

@@tarunchandrasekar1220 late af but no not a bad idea

[@anthonyprotopapa6278]

is okay not to tell a story in the description section? I just think it would be more ideal to just tell about your certain description then elaborate with a story or 2 in the most meaningful remark section.

[@jeffsmith9420]

This is stupid. It's time to abolish self-control of licensure and the educational process for medicine and other professions.

[@adamzaki5067]

Question: I'm currently in high school and I have a question about the dual-enrollment classes. I am taking some AP classes with other dual enrollment classes with credits from another university. When I go to whatever institution and eventually apply for med school, will the grade I got in high school for these dual-enrollment classes (not the AP classes) show up on the AMCAS and actually affect my cumulative undergraduate GPA and if they do, will they appear in the high school portion, or the FR/SO year portion?

[@noneofyourdamnbuisness3484]

So I’m not sure about your specific circumstance but I think I saw someone who took dual enrollment in HS and it showed up on their app and affected gpa - look into it tho

[@andrescorona7044]

Yes if it’s at a college or university you’ll have to indicated that institution and include it on your app

[@Limitedonathios]

Yes, they show up for AAMCs so please take them seriously and do your best!

[@VasanthSathishgamingandsoccer]

high school senior right now- i asked my counselor the same question she said for dual enrollment classes the CREDIT transfers but not the grade so my C in Ap calc will give me credit in college but the C will not show up on transcripts

[@andrescorona7044]

@@VasanthSathishgamingandsoccer AP calc isn’t a dual enrollment course. Dual enrollment is when you take an actual college class alongside other college students

[@MrPaintballfanatic]

completely disagree with some of dr grey's takes on this one...

[@Xper1ment626]

Why am i watching these, im not even a doctor! 🙈

[@Maureen-MO]

So tired of these comments of when an applicant isn’t whole rounded in their application (bc right, we want to be reviewed holistically by adcoms), the reason they didn’t get in according to the comments is bc a black person took their spot. Anyone care to comment the comparison between white applicants accepted this year compared to black?

[@emw9247]

Blaming a black person is easy. Crafting a well-rounded application requires effort.

[@tal8871]

If race wasn't a factor in admissions decisions, nobody would ever think such a thought.

[@Limitedonathios]

So the stats are on AAMC and they demonstrate lower stats for black people vs other races. However, in any given cycle, HBCU medical schools can account for 25%-50% of black medical students (MD) in training in america (quoted at a conference), so a lot of them are going there and HBCU med schools prioritize experience and written potential over stats. So that's a big chunk of the data. So between the 154 other med schools black students matriculate into, pwi institutions and other institutions(bc there are a few latin serving and Native american serving institutions), the black students who matriculated have to be competitive for that class (even given underserved status when they are undeserved which disproportionately impacts poc and immigrants). My point is, don't let racists get you down, bc it will be a long painful journey if you do.

[@wa9953]

It's just racists showing their true colors. It is far more likely that a white person took their spot over a Black person. And it's bold of them to assume that it's "their spot."

[@marianahernandezflores4421]

No one takes anyone spot- no one is entitled to a spot. Stats are only a portion of the application.

[@troopernate8046]

cool

[@aniabella8229]

Love these videos but would love to see a person of color, it’s so rare to see representation of us in the medical field!

[@Mirrrh.1]

stop getting color in every single thing. Maybe not a lot of you guys apply or maybe they get in or maybe the students don't reach out. Everything doesn't have to be about race. Just close your eyes and enjoy the video

[@marcusfuller7637]

The wet plastic aerobically fail because knot cytopathologically tremble unto a uppity puffin. perpetual, late yacht

[@yotuba9493]

Yeet