Shimano EP8 vs EP801, Which One is Better?

[@abelramos8652]

Shimano is for me, very good in pedal response, feels natural. But at the end, is a ebike and you need power.

[@rawmancemtb]

Exactly. It's a horrible design philosophy to make the motor for someone who doesn't ride an ebike. Bosch has it all. Instant power. Overrun that allows you make a full crankback rotation to switch timing from one foot to the other. And with the latest update on the 801 Shimano failed to even copy a 3 year old formula by adding the backpedal overrun cancel. So what you want to use the overrun for cancels the overrun... EP8 both the weakest and least range somehow.

[@timscarman4599]

Agreed. Love the natural feeling and response on my. 2022 Merida eOne-Sixty 700, my first e-bike…. plenty of power. Little experience w. other motors, except Turbo Levo gen 3 (a mates bike) and Bafang on my commuter step-thru. I e had no issues w. my shimano and have done 3 ½ thousand kilometres. I’d go shimano again. Maybe new Merida eOne-Sixty 875 w. 801 motor. Torque is what counts for me anyway

[@Venna78]

Would love a bit more detail of the differences between them. Like more in depth about the improved seals and the better cooling, preferably a disassembly of both motors side by side.

[@TheLoamWolf]

Thanks for the input. If you head to our website, the written feature has more of those detaild. We had already seen a number of videos doing just what you had mentioned, so we figured that we would focus on what all those changes actually mean in the real world and in the trail. But, we may still take that idea and do it again if people seem interested in it!

[@glenross7747]

Absolutely love the EP801 in my Nukeproof Megawatt. I ride with lads who have both Giant E+ and Bosch CX and smoke them both on ascents(and I'm over 20yrs older than one of them)💪💪🤟

[@TheLoamWolf]

Right on thanks for sharing that’s Rad to hear.

[@Lgarner17_]

What model?🔥

[@glenross7747]

@@Lgarner17_ 2023 Nukeproof Megawatt Comp.🤟

[@glenross7747]

@@Lgarner17_ Sorry, only just seen your comment - Nukeproof Megawatt Comp 2023-24 (AdventX). Absolute BEAST.💪💪

[@rawmancemtb]

Definitely nothing to do with the motor. Bosch is just a superior motor.

[@burt3343]

Great video again. Could you tell which one has the least battery consumption?

[@emilysona]

I just made a similar comment. It seems like no one is willing to test the range of the Shimano EP801 against the EP8, Bosch, and other brands. I've asked every E-MTB channel, and no one seems ready to take on the challenge. I'm starting to think the EP801 might be just as inefficient as the EP8 and no one wants to say it to stay on good terms with Shimano.

[@superyamagucci]

@@emilysona Send me one of everything and I'll do it. No allegiances here 👍

[@claytonprice7833]

Just a question to through in the mix. Once at pace, is the Continuous Peak Power the same on both motors?

[@grillob3]

With great power comes great battery!

[@briangong007]

Maybe a follow video taling about free shift and auto shift...

[@TheLoamWolf]

That’s a good idea and we are actually planning on it with Shimano this year!

[@cabbynate]

The 801 now that has the update that gives the motor overrun.

[@SamsBikes]

Great work was going to do something similar... but now no need haha

[@TheLoamWolf]

You can do it! Haha. Have fun and we’ll give it a watch when you do.

[@burt3343]

Yes please Sam, could you add which one has the best battery consumption as well. Would really appreciate it ✊🏻

[@TheScramble8]

Does it eat the battery more, tho?

[@mattparmer466]

I can't speak to the EP8, but I got a '24 YT Decoy in January with the EP801. It has a 720wh battery, and weighs damn near 60 lbs. Maxxis Double Down tires, and I weigh at least 195 lbs geared up. Riding in boost with steep climbs gets me about 4500' of vert. Trail mode gets to about 4.7k of climbing, eco can go for 6500-7000'. I heard lots of bad things about the EP8 but the 801 feels great. Didn't seem any louder than my friend's Bosch CX. Hope this helps!

[@Venna78]

EP801 being a bit more powerful should result i a bit less range compared to the EP800. On the other hand the EP801 is supposed to run a bit cooler so that might give it some of that range back.

[@TheLoamWolf]

There are so many variable factors to consider in this equation, however if we were to hypothetically say that the same rider was putting out the exact same cadence, human-watts and same tire pressure, dirt conditions and repeated the same test loop, the EP801 would likely draw more battery but only in certain portions of the trail. Namely the climbs where you’re using that extra power. It better manages heat, which is a battery sucker, has Fine Tune which can help with range management and has some changes to the gears themselves internally. But. Yes, if you’re just climbing straight up a wall and relying on that extra 100w of power each lap, it will use a bit more.

[@mattcgtx4809]

@@mattparmer466what mileage / moving time do your examples represent

[@mattclark1278]

See my comment here for details but net: riding the same setup (YT Decoy) as the other guy responding here but riding it back to back against my 2023 Decoy (ep8 w same 720W batt) the 801 uses a LOT more power (15-20%). I've had to detune the power for my big ride/climb days (22-25mi, 4k') back to ep8 levels of assist (which honestly: is fine - I realized thousands of miles ago that assist level is almost entirely how fast you climb, not how much effort you expend doing it). I enjoy the xtra ooomph on the shorter (12-18mi, 3k'-ish) rides when I'm scrambling fast. Franks and beans.

[@mattclark1278]

I ride both an ep8 and ep801 with 720W batteries on my YT Decoys. The ep801 (which is NOT backwards-compatible with ANY ep8/ep8000 components) eats battery at least 15-20% faster (which makes sense if you believe the 20% increase in power). HUGE bummer. I regularly climb 3600' and ride 22-24 miles and I've had to use Shimano's e-Tube app to massively detune the stock profile to get anything close to what I got range-wise off the standard programing of the ep8. For rides where I'm just hammering steeps for 60-75 minutes and in boost the whole time I do like the extra power. Again: a range comparison would show that with the extra power I'd need a 800-850W battery to equate to an ep8/720W combo. Shimano definitely did NOT make the motor any more efficient IMO. Quieter? Yes. Less noticeable rattle? Yes. Better sealed? Supposedly. But Brose still smokes it for range w a 700W (quieter and more-natural feeling too). My buddy with a Bosch has a 800W battery so I can't speak to range or efficiency, but I can say his Bosch is louder and feel less-natural in assist uptake (not major issues).

[@TheLoamWolf]

Thank you for sharing your input and experience. Just out of curiosity, I see you have Decoys which are same bike, is rear shock, tire compound and pattern/pressure the same on the 801 and 8 bikes? While evaluating range and efficiency, it would be great to know if you're running the same tires and rear shock as suspension bob, rolling resistance also play into that. As a whole though, more power does usually mean, less efficiency, just look at cars or trucks.

[@mattclark1278]

@@TheLoamWolf hats off to you guys for all the great content. To add more depth/color: same size rear, same size crank arms (160), same exact tire (Minion DHR2 maxxterra), same PSI (22), same gearing. Only setup difference is coil vs air, but bob is *minimal* on both platforms, so no chance that comes close to explaining the chasm of difference. Importantly, both bikes in same modes throughout each ride and I'm doping the same ride (which is front-loaded with a bunch of climbing, so you can literally watch power drop-off at 15-20% earlier in distance w the 801). I've narrowed it via e-tube adjustment to about a 5% loss for the e801 (and it gives a similar feel to the ep8 assist level), but I think it's time for Shimano to reassess and redesign their next-gens around adding efficiency as from what I've read they're clearly losing the battle to Brose and Bosch. Does it really only play to people who want to go hard for 25+ miles and thousands of feet of steep climbing? Yes. But should all motors be similar in performance range? Again, yes. IMO Shimano has returned to the pack on power with the 801, but also managed to fall further behind on efficiency...

[@TheLoamWolf]

Awesome thanks so much for your information and awesome detail! It really helps us and others when people share quality experiences like that. And we appreciate the kind words, we’ll keep doing the best we can with the small crew we have! 🤙

[@VUO4E]

@@TheLoamWolf "As a whole though, more power does usually mean, less efficiency, just look at cars or trucks" no, not really but you have to compare apples with apples.

[@emilysona]

Can you do a range test comparing the EP8 and EP 801? The EP8 is not very efficient and drains the battery much sooner than my Bosch-powered bike. No one has done a range comparison of the EP801 against the EP8 and the Bosch CX4. That would be an epic video and would finally answer the efficiency question many of your viewers have.

[@TheLoamWolf]

We will try working on a comparison during our eMTB shootout in a couple weeks. Range tests should be taken with a grain of salt though as riders weights, riding styles, preferred power mode, terrain and a plethora of other factors can greatly effect an eMTB's range.

[@emilysona]

@@TheLoamWolf Thank you very much for your reply, It's an honor to have a conversation with such a prestigious channel, one that I've followed for many years. I appreciate your insights about the variability of range tests due to multiple factors such as rider weight, riding style, and terrain. Regarding the Bosch system, it is commonly known for its energy efficiency and powerful output, which is indeed a great feat of engineering. I own three e-bikes: a Santa Cruz with the older EP8, a Scott Ransom eRide with the Bosch system, and an Ibis also equipped with the latest generation of the Bosch Smart System. From my personal experience, I can affirm that I get between 10 and 20% more range on the Bosch compared to my Santa Cruz. This aligns with the numerous positive reviews and comments about the Bosch system. Given my interest in possibly purchasing a bike with a Shimano, particularly the new EP801, I'm very keen to see a detailed range test comparing it under similar conditions to verify if there has been an improvement in efficiency. Your upcoming eMTB shootout sounds like the perfect opportunity to explore this, and I look forward to the results! Thank you once again for engaging with your viewers on these technical yet crucial aspects of e-biking.

[@TheLoamWolf]

Thank you so much for the kind words and it’s an honor to have such awesome fans and engagement from people who want to talk tech, details and share their own experiences too! We will certainly dedicate time to testing range and efficiency in our shootout beginning next week! Thanks again

[@mattclark1278]

@@emilysona I believe your Ibis comes with an 800W battery? And the Santa Cruz a 700 or 750W? This is why it's hard to compare, but I have seen a comparo that tries to normalize the differences and shows the Brose as most efficient, Bosch second or third and Shimano way down the list.

[@emilysona]

@@mattclark1278 Hello Matt, Thank you very much for your reply. Actually, I own three bikes at the moment: a 2021 Santa Cruz Bullit with the EP800 motor with a 630WH Battery, a 2022 Scott Ransom eRide 910 with the Bosch motor and the smaller 625Wh battery, and my latest e-bike, the Ibis Oso, which comes with a 750Wh battery. I wanted to tell you about the bikes I own because the comparison I did was not with the Ibis Oso, but with the Scott Ransom. It has an almost identical battery size to the Santa Cruz Bullit, and the range difference is astonishing. There’s no comparison-the Scott Ransom blows it out of the water in range, even though it is a heavier bike. I don't know what Bosch is doing to get this efficiency, but Shimano is very far behind. This is why I'm so curious if Shimano has been able to improve the efficiency in their new EP801 motor. It’s one of the reasons I saw the video and wrote in the comments, inquiring about a range test with the EP801. I have not been able to find a single KZbin video doing an actual range test comparing the EP801 with other motors or with the older EP800.

[@RockMumbles]

Nice!

[@TheLoamWolf]

Thanks!

[@antonyb]

what camera gear do you use for your videos

[@CHIEFSFAN1969]

Please repeat with 801 vs CX. I have a CX but it’s the only e-bike I’ve ever ridden, so just curious.

[@TheLoamWolf]

Right on thanks! We’ll get around to it!

[@jordanmackay3568]

CX wins in every category. Check out Sam's bikes he's doing a full motor review on the best motors

[@thim8009]

I have 4 extra batteries for ep8 on decoy. I will just bump the levels up in profile 1 and more miles in profile 2. I would like one with ep801, but my battery's aren't compatible.

[@mattclark1278]

Yup. I was riding two ep8s on my decoys then went to the new uncaged 10 with the 801 and nothing is cross-compatible anymore.

[@S14AA]

Pretty crap that nothing is compatible

[@WoooVegas]

How would the 801 compare to the 85 nm giant e + elite trying to decide between the rise with the new motor and the giant e+ elite

[@jordanmackay3568]

Get a bosch motor over anything. Maybe the new Brose

[@kanutecarson1]

The Yamaha motor in the Giant bikes is really nice and compares well to my friends Bosch orbea wild. The Bosch is slightly better, but I would go with the better deal.

[@Gerald-iz7mv]

@@jordanmackay3568 why bosch motor? which bosch motor do you mean and which bike?

[@therealridedmc]

:58 seconds compared to 1:09 seconds is more than 10% faster. It’s more like 18%.

[@ELi2190]

I’m looking at NORCO eMTB Range or Sight but the Shimano EP8 is the dealbreaker for me - I’m looking for something with assist up to 28MPH as I will be riding mostly flat

[@TheLoamWolf]

The new 2024 Norco eMTBs are equipped with Bosch motors. However, no Class 1 eMTBs have assist past 20mph.

[@K1ngJame5-mtb]

@theloamwolf does the ep801 rattle just as much as the ep8?!?! I just couldn’t take the ep8 motor rattle on my SC bullit

[@billcarboy]

As an Ep8 owner pretty much confirms what I always suspected, down on power compared to other full fats. Pity shimano don’t offer some kind of power up grade for the Ep8. Feeling short changed shimano 😠

[@TheLoamWolf]

Certainly would be an awesome upgrade if it was able to plug n play!

[@mattclark1278]

Get the 801. But if you can buy a bike where you can get a 750W+ battery, because I don't think Shimano supports a slave battery...

[@Jan07362]

How can you tell if you have ep801 or ep8

[@reidcoleman7176]

I live in Western WA where we don't have a lot of technical climbs, but mostly fire roads. Would the Shimano or Bosch be better suited for my needs?

[@TheLoamWolf]

If you mainly just have fire roads to deal with or smooth singletrack, both systems will be equally fine in terms of power. Shimano has a bit more of a natural feel whereas the Bosch will make you feel superhuman.

[@reidcoleman7176]

@@TheLoamWolf thanks for the reply. Would love to get your teams thoughts on the Commencal Meta Power SX now that they have the Bosch motor

[@michaeltoland4498]

Hey let’s talk about battery life… better or worse than ep8? In our group rides (teamoldsoil) with 6-20 riders on all makes and motors the shimano runs out of electrons before all the others. On a typical ride will have 30% battery left with bosch 625 battery and shimano 630 is pushing home.

[@TheLoamWolf]

Certainly love to hear more. Are the rider weights comparable? 15-20lb rider/bike weight makes a notable difference. Also tire design and compound. Even tire pressure. Rider strength and their output and the gear selection/cadence also are factors. Moving into the motor/battery. What power modes are being used? Since Shimano doesn’t have a “smart” mode or auto mode to adjust power delivery on the fly, this will certainly be a factor as well! One great thing about the new fine tune on 801 is the ability to make more than just the 3 eco, trail, boost selections. Yes, still behind Bosch for sure in terms of autonomy, but if you’re active on the controls it will help! Range and battery consumption are very interesting topics to discuss and are much like MPGs on a car! You could give 2 drivers the same vehicle for a week, and their MPGs could be wildly different..

[@michaeltoland4498]

Rider weights are close, and understand how different power settings can make a big difference. Typically most of us ride in EMTB mode. Two of the riders have sold there shimano equipped bikes and have moved on to bosch bikes, trek rail (625watt) and Mondraker w/625 battery. On a 20-25 mile ride we all are within 2% of one another. The shimano and 720 battery(Santa Cruz bikes) are close to the same range now as the 625watt Bosch. The turbo levo w/ 700 watt has slightly more range by a few percent, than the 625 Bosch . I Have like you,spent time on the pivot Lt (love it, thanks Pivot) and can only imagine what the bike would be like with Bosch power unit, and 625 and 750 watt options. With the smaller battery,the bike could be light… Emtb of the year material. Thanks for your great content.

[@TheLoamWolf]

Thanks very much for following up and the feedback as well as kind words. Glad to hear you love the LT, so do we! Time will tell if it’ll go the way of the AM with drive unit….

[@michaeltoland4498]

Only a matter of time. And back to the original question, is the range better or worse , old vs new?

[@mattclark1278]

Worse. More power eats more electrons. My ep801 easts 15-20% more power in standard modes than my ep8 (both running 720W batteries). On longer rides I've had to detune the 801 to ep8 levels to keep the same distance/climb potentials. Read: it got zero improvement in efficiency.

Nice effort from the Shimano with the EP801, but still, the Bosch CX is way punchier, not to mention the Race motor. If only Pivot had equipped the LT with the Bosch motor, that would be my first choice for a e Enduro bike

[@topchoice1621]

The increase in performance by 10 seconds isn’t enough to justify buying a new bike Bosch has the best bang

[@S14AA]

Over a 60second climb maybe but in a 2 or 3 hour race that's ganna add up

[@sorcererzv]

EP8, EP801, EP600 do not have linear modes. That's why I switched from EP8 to Bosch CX and will never go back. Bosch gives you a choice, with the Flow app

[@TheLoamWolf]

Interesting to hear and thanks for the feedback!

[@S14AA]

Pretty disappointed owning a ep800 that they didnt make it compatible with existing battery prob wont buy a shimano again

[@porroco]

New ebikes ep801 motors that you like to use autoshift will come with xo1 transmision. Shimano casset is not as good and strong like aram xo transmision. Propaine with sram broose motor will have sram autoshift

[@PahadiPedaler]

That ep8 sucks. So much happy with the switch to Bosch performance cx. No way putting my money on another shimano motor anymore.

[@rhubarbbs]

You said "unit"...

[@TheLoamWolf]

At least once. Haha

[@04RedFairLadyZ]

Different but same …..different but same

[@andrewford9974]

Bafang is better

[@bambaramba6509]

Shimano will loose thousands of current EP8 users due to this and the recent update intended for 801 only.

[@Jimmyrush89]

I’m on my 3rd ep8 motor in 14 months. Absolute trash, avoid shimano motors at all costs ☠️

[@bambaramba6509]

Shimano will loose thousands of current EP8 users due to this and the recent update intended for 801 only.