Sit Down...We Need to Have an Honest Conversation About PEDs

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Dave Tate and joey szatmary sit down and have an honest conversation about PEDs. It's a conversation we think everyone needs to hear
#realtalk #peds #elitefts

[@steffanofumo]

Has someone who has a severe neurodegenerative condition and Testosterone has literally took me from a invalid cripple that looked like a skeleton, to muscular and semi-functional human, I still hate the stigma, I’ve had people call me a cheater meanwhile I don’t even compete in anything, meanwhile it’s ok to drink or yourself into a coma lol

[@martinbradley1062]

I have no problems with people taking peds its people who take them that say they are natural thats the annoying thing if its from an aesthetics point of view or strength to many fake nattys and then even more annoying is when naturals and or unnaturals call them out for being fake nattys and get called haters for pointing out the obvious

[@3AmRebounding]

100% agree man end of the day idc if someone’s on PED’s as long as they don’t lie about it

[@martinbradley1062]

@@3AmRebounding exactly if someone wants to take them for multiple reasons then crack on just dont be a liar and tell people your natural so it makes you look like you have elite genetics and your stronger than someone and or look aesthetically better than someone even tho its because your taking peds, if your brave enough to take it be brave enough to admit it

[@corneliusparkin2401]

So you would like for folks to admit to illegal drugs use when they’re questioned if natural or not? I find that ridiculous. But sure the guys that tell folks they’re natural without promoting. Those are tedious.

[@coreydw1]

@@corneliusparkin2401 some of the things are legal, so they can say it, without getting into specifics.

[@martinbradley1062]

@@corneliusparkin2401 alot of peds are legal and legal to buy but not to sell, dont tell people your a natty if you not and anyone who cheats to win is a pussy

[@DrAJ_LatinAmerica]

never explain yourself to anyone. Those who love you, understand the Why. Those who hate you will never try to understand. awesome content as always

[@bubbashrimp9005]

Nothing else needs to be said really

[@tomhines3404]

“You’re not gonna play in college, not even D3.” Ouch Dave I played D3 😂 but without any gear enhancement. I didn’t get on TRT until I was 30 when my total test was 169 😬 you do what you got to do.

[@mikehinson5935]

One thing that I ran into was “overdosed” test. I do have a script but also had some black market test. I was running my usual 150mg which is what I’m prescribed. Was using same amount so I thought and labs came back with test at 1625ndl. Normally with my script it’s 950’s. I guess some are overdosing to keep buyers coming back. No, not fake but could really jack up some labs. Mine are done quarterly so I instantly knew what was up and told my Dr. I couldn’t even feel the difference either but with labs dots were connected.

[@Cowboy.underwater]

Same experience, 862 up to 1275. The feeling is the same. 256 to 862 however is life changing.

[@jefffries808]

What lab

[@Cowboy.underwater]

@@jefffries808 no source talk on KZbin m8.

[@mikehinson5935]

@@jefffries808 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@jefffries808]

Yea I'm sure they're gonna ban u for naming the lab roll my eyes noobs

[@Football__Junkie]

I’m so glad guys are now so willing to talk about the drugs they took. It’s so stupid that our nation looks at PEDs as this horrible nightmare drug like meth, heroin, or fentanyl. Alcohol kills more people and is treated so differently. It just doesn’t make any sense.

[@srouse39]

My view on PEDS is unless your pushing to actually compete then don’t use but if you are good and almost great then take to help get over the hump.

[@soonahero]

Your view enables crime. You’re a monster.

[@bennywatts4174]

I almost got scammed by some guy selling bunk gear I asked him where he got it from and he said underground labs are better then pharmaceutical grade right then I knew the guy was selling b.s.

[@dlgh2697]

Thanks for keeping it real!!

[@Yupppi]

That's a really eye-opening perspective and comes up all the time in evidence based fitness or science in general, that it shouldn't be a surprise. But even then I always have my mouth open with "oh yeah, even the whey powder I use isn't in any way guaranteed to have accurate and even dose of effective ingredients" (even though almost all of it is whey so it's not too significant). But you could consider the same in painkillers, vitamin pills, heck even your juice can or fruit. It won't be even and accurate doses if it is even real stuff to begin with. And because it has a single number on the side we (I) treat it as true measure of what is in every bit of substance. Like even the nutrition listing on the side of the food product can be way off for your specific meal, because they didn't burn or dilute or particle accelerate the piece of meat/yoghurt/bread in your hand, obviously. And like all the bullshit companies and products measuring your levels of this and that and claiming absolute conclusions about that, while also selling with certainty something that helps with it. Despite the fact that it's really difficult to measure, probably a proxy and affected by everything from time of day, nutrition, sleep and mood. I don't know if it's more alarming that I deal with science as an engineer and still forget that, or if it's just natural due to engineers often working with averages and big picture effects rather than exact truth. Talking about 0 testosterone, Dr. Eric Helms talked about a really fascinating study where they tried to find out more about testosterone's effects on building muscle, and found out that people who had 0 testosterone, who were actually medically driven to 0, were still able to produce muscle during the study. The hormonal research is an odd one, seems like whenever we think we know what the body and certain hormone does and test it, the body has a way to compensate or balance for homeostasis, and it's very difficult to find absolute ranges that apply across individuals. Testosterone being one of those funny ones that greatly varies throughout the day and depending on how much exercise stress and other stress you got, sleep etc and there being individuals that would be deemed clinically low but doing great, and individuals who would be deemed as having great numbers but doing poorly. But then there's ads shoveled to men that imply that you have dramatically low testosterone for any possible symptom. And you end up substituting your own hormonal production for the rest of your life for possibly no reason. Completely different from having athletic goals and making the informed decision to trade some life quality for your goals.

[@DixonDeadlifts]

Please do a video on how people in federations such as the USAPL are beating drug test..

[@5hydroxyT]

this is why i would imagine state-sponsored programs are at a significant advantage...not just for quality, but for safety

[@garrettgraves998]

State sponsored ped distribution?

[@5hydroxyT]

@@garrettgraves998 like Russia, some countries in East Asia, old Eastern bloc countries...im referring to sports like weightlifting and athletics btw

[@chrisparsley1]

Does anyone know this wed site ifet me know . Thanks

[@jonstewart5386]

I found a cool doctor and get mine at Walgreens now. It’s pretty funny to see the look on the pharmacist’s face, lol!

[@richarddawson203]

Appreciate this high quality content

[@yuribezmenovwasright5625]

Test n tren are my favorite in spring and summer. Dbol and test are my favorite in the winter months.

[@awildstrongmonappears6770]

Erowid does some quality testing of MAS’s for harm reduction purposes. I wonder if they’d start testing PEDs

[@alessandror6001]

My only problem Is if you compete in a drug tested federation while enhanced expecially if you are in a sport where there are non tested feds like in powerlifting

[@millennial9252]

Just follow how NYC is responding to drug users, they gave up on discouraging the use of drugs all together and it’s about mitigation of death (specifically opiates). The point being, using gear should be easier to obtain and not underground crap. Her Doctors involved and monitor cycles and guys wouldn’t be dropping like flies. I really hope the overall lifting community (powerlifting, bodybuilding, etc) takes a hard look in the mirror and start openly talking about health so they next generation isn’t fucked.

[@andy51900]

You only get the play the Tren Ace card once 😆

[@benbray4982]

Biggest thing that put me off gear was not knowing what I'm injecting. That and I'm weak as shit naturally, I would always be disappointed at how little gear was probably gonna do for me. Then it's all because I'm just weak and can't cut it to reach my goals with no excuses. I've out lifted a few guys who were running a good amount of gear but honestly, the vast majority of people don't have the training knowledge, knowledge of their own body or the discipline to bang in 3 to 6 months of solid work, day in day out, to get the best of it. I think if you have to ask if it's time, it's probably not time. If you were Usain bolt and faster than everu other sprinter who has previously popped for peds, surely you'd want to see what peds would do for you as you're naturally the fastest man alive.

[@John-cena6483]

I appreciate the honesty, as a fellow weak person, I just plain don't see the point of giving up my health to bench 405. That said, I plan on benching 405, it's just not gonna happen for a decade or two.

[@benbray4982]

@@John-cena6483 seen many a person come in and deadlift 550 first time maxing out. That's obviously uncommon, but when you've seen it a few times and KNOW one of those people has never trained in their life, just been a mechanic, it's pretty disappointing. These people aren't usually bothered either and don't realise their potential. Funny old world. Grass is always greener etc.

[@paulwaters4672]

​@@John-cena6483Joe you will get there if you keep records of what your doing.. everyone responds different to different routines..Id suggest 9 sets of 3 reps..Start with something you can you know you can do with 5 reps..next week add 5 to it and same for next 6 weeks..

[@garrettgraves998]

Honestly finding quality gear is pretty self explanatory. If guys are using it already and getting yoked your good to go. It doesn't have to be a science experiment.

[@DannyHamar]

You can still get staph infection. I Just had sepsis (staph in the blood)

[@azmidlyf]

What was the lab Dave was mentioning?

[@chrisparsley1]

Did you find which 1 they are taling about

[@eliteftsofficial]

marekhealth.com code: TABLETALK

[@Vonnie12]

I think putting out good information about peds is extremely valuable but the problem is that 99% of the information out their is dog shit but information and knowledge is always a good thing in every way.

[@Football__Junkie]

Not only the information but the drug quality is worse now that Western labs don’t like to produce high quality steroids. Guys having to get stuff from China or Mexico is just dangerous.

[@gregwilliamson7682]

I'd eat people before I give up meat. Sounds like your next t-shirt slogan. Great job Doc.

[@CrazyLocoInsane1]

Okay I took it one step further I mix all the orals I get in one bad like you suggested and now I even coat the orals with the liquid version of steroids and I throw the needles in the bag too. Is it okay that the needles shred my butthole every day though??

[@jamiealexander7065]

There are definitely a lot of guys in the NFL who started using in high school.

[@kiddfamilyfarmllc9962]

I repped for a short time. Damn straight about the last rep in. and all the antidepressants. Spot on Dave.

[@nattyforlife8393]

Thing is there are way too many young lifters abusing stuff,and the orgs are not effective at testing.The peer pressure among young lifters is great, and there is so much ignorance on the effects of drugs

[@lucasfischer9027]

Everyone has their reason, and today body dismorphia is worse than it has been. Always dyor each person is biased to one side or another.

[@alespider9905]

one bottle a week you say? consider it done

[@nicksearles3996]

I have a super legit source, it’s called my naturopathic doctor haha god bless her

[@MrJudo2go]

This was very honest and good information. I usually don't comment on PED videos, but since this one was honest and down to earth I will. I'm from the competition days of the 70's when you could legally use steroids that were real pharmaceutical quality prescribed by a doctor. I am blessed to be able to still workout and still be here when some of the people I trained with and admired are gone. As a resident of Tucson Az., I can say that there are all manner of things coming across the border and you don't have to even leave your family room to get some of the real deal. If you happen to know anyone who has horses you can easily get boldenone ( equipoise) the real thing. The one thing that people don't seem to realize is this PED thing in bodybuilding isn't going unnoticed. People think that just because there are so many changes of one hand to another that they won't get caught. I the DEA is just waiting for the right time that will make the statement that will come down hard on the sport of bodybuilding.

[@riggs9688]

Any good gyms in Tucson you like?

[@MrJudo2go]

@@riggs9688 I don't use commercial gyms in Tucson because I train at home and at my training partners place. During the time period of the 70's and 80's my favorite place to train was the original Tucson Health Studio, later named Tucson Sport Fitness owned by the late Carlos Rodriguez Mr. Universe. Mike Spar had a very nice hardcore bodybuilding gym also. Those were the days when Arnold Schwarzenegger, Tom Platz, Mike Mentzer, and Johnny Fuller would come to Tucson on a regular basis for seminars. I trained many times with Carlos and with Marlon Darton. I know that we have Beast Strong Powerhouse and Tucson Strength which are hardcore bodybuilding facilities. At almost 70yrs old I only train for my health and happiness, not to build massive amounts of muscle. Best of all things to you. 👍

[@riggs9688]

@@MrJudo2go Thank you, I never knew Tucson had a good history of fitness like that. I grew up there.

[@urgamecshk]

Volumes a good 15% low on this one

[@A-A-RonDavis2470]

This is why it's just so easy to be natural and not act like you're a record-breaker. You'll be big and strong naturally, just get there.

[@REVIVALFitness]

Good luck.

[@dadbod488]

Dave's preferred stack for strength? 👀

[@4funner66]

Stack of pancakes from Ihop

[@bmstylee]

Purple Monster for a chaser

[@eliteftsofficial]

12 Milk jugs from McDonald’s

[@JigEmUp]

@@eliteftsofficial I drank around 4 quarts a day from age 17 till 19 to bulk up and increase my caloric intake and it definitely helped me get much stronger along with meeting and training with the strongest teen in the USA. The only problem was I had to wipe my ass with a spoon!

[@JB-qt3wo]

If you think your ass hurts from doing squats…wait until you pin some test that wasn’t “mixed” correctly.

[@haikeaintiaani9183]

Anything worthwhile got risks. I really hope on far future on distant Galaxy society and people coud use theas freely and right way and woud have means to measure their healt like diabetic woud their bloodsugar. I know itse way too far fetched

[@timmian85]

First think anyone should ask themselves before going on gear is if they can actually afford to do it. Its not cheap, and you will also have to add in the extra food you will have to eat. I have a hard time cramming in anything over 3500, if i had to bump that shit up to 4500 i honestly dont think i could do it. I also couldnt handle the stress of having to regularly go to a doctor to check if my organs are doing okay.

[@Jeep_ty]

I think we all could be world’s strongest men

[@bobsaul4568]

Don’t punch down on D3! Cmon now

[@chuckatley1464]

I inject 3 times a week minimum...nothing wrong with it, and its completely a personal choice. Everyone in the strength game uses them...EVERYONE!!

[@xx-vi1mj]

Keep telling yourself that

[@chuckatley1464]

@@xx-vi1mj explain? if you are weak and will never be competitive just say it

[@isaacwittinger8617]

Speak for yourself, it's not everyone.

[@chuckatley1464]

@@isaacwittinger8617 you sound pathetic...you totally still breastfeed

[@BigJamesGraham]

@@chuckatley1464 JUICE BOY

[@garrettgraves998]

Meh, I don't think bunk aas is the norm. The authentic products are cheap and people are more than willing to pay for something that's quality. I don't think opiates will end up in aas either. It's the wrong market. You would never sell anything ever again if it happened.

[@nattyforlife8393]

I see so many young lifters on Sarms. Yet they like to claim they are not on testosterone, though Sarms has it's side effects

[@tedlast4896]

I love being on gear. I wish I would’ve started sooner.

[@soonahero]

Do you do any other crimes?

[@ThomisticTheologyandPhilosophy]

@@soonaherosteroid use is a victimless crime STFU 😂

[@JigEmUp]

If someone decides to go on then that’s there decision. I do think that you should put in at least 5-7 years of consistent hardcore training and get to the point if you want to go further in your sport and have hit a plateau and have tried other means to increase gains and it’s just not working the. you and only you can make that decision. My opinion if your not going to compete or play a sport then I wouldn’t take them. I also hate when natural guys take gear and compete in drug free competitions. That’s an empty victory. Another thing that really pisses me off is when people say that your only strong because of taking shit! I will then tell them I have never seen a bottle of test or anything else lift an ounce. You still have to get to the gym and train like a monster to attain your goals. You could take 10 people and give them the exact dose and you’ll get 10 different results! There’s also one thing I HATE and that’s the term “ natty “ Who the fuck started that stupid term? Just train and do the fucking work and quit being jealous because someone is way stronger than you or looks a hell of a lot better then you!

[@ConnoisseurOfExistence]

All that's fine. But what if some people want to be natty and compete against other natties?

[@soonahero]

It’s not their decision when it’s a crime

[@elim5353]

Problem is alot of younger guys take way to much. Ive seen 20 years Olds on tren all the time, never come off. If you do it correct it can be alright. Now with trt that's fine becauae slightly elevated is better than low test

[@markjetson8977]

I don’t care who takes them but stop the bs roid boys acting like they don’t matter much and it’s their “hard work”.

[@DrAJ_LatinAmerica]

real bodybuilders and powerlifters, even many general pro level sports athlete and wanabe pro level athletes not taking TRT dosages. With many, their dosages are not legally justified under modern medical "needs". Eliminate lawsuits for wrongful death, eliminate the possibility of losing medical license and more doctors would prescribe and more drug companies would provide higher quality products as well as more readily available. We are on a slipper slope. Gym owners do not want to be accountable for a person overloading the bench and crushing their skill without spotters. Doctors do not want to be accountable for a person taking their whole 30 day prescription in one week.

[@viklifts-zk8bl]

As a whole, I think the exposure of steroid use is totally fine, as long as there are trustworthy sources on the matter like Derek from MPMD

[@robertcornelius3514]

Who can you name that has provided tainted steroids?

[@BigJamesGraham]

I cant hear a word either of you are say8ng

[@yourmother3207]

Turn your volume up

[@mzmPACman]

"I get my bloodwork done". That's great, but bloodwork can't measure everything. There is a lot we don't fully understand about intravascular damage and why chronic steroid users tend to die relatively young. Plenty of dead bodybuilders who also got their bloodwork done. Not judging you, I did them too. But don't kid yourself.

[@avatar1867]

A. Easy not all steroids are the same, some are clearly neurotoxic,hepatoxic, etc. B. BP BP BP. Blood pressure is the silent killer. High blood pressure is the world's LEADING killer says a quick Google. C. Unchecked estrogen levels and unchecked hematocrit. Honestly high blood pressure is probably to blame. Inflammation seems to reduce mortality so...take your high dose fish oil daily regardless. I take 8g a day. I suppose you could look at how they die. Higher estrogen AND aromatse inhibitors both increase the risk of blood clotting for instance. Again, high dose fish oil for the win. However plenty of people smoke, do drugs, drink chronically, etc. Not everything in life is safe, although good studies would be nice so we can all live into our 90s while on TRT.

[@mzmPACman]

@@avatar1867 we just dont have adequate data to show that one way or another. The small studies we do have are underpowered or just case studies, and dont answer the questions we really want to know, like chronic steroid use and longevity, CV mortality and all-cause mortality. And we probably never will have these studies; 1) because they are unethical to do in a controlled manner, 2) no one would fund them, and 3) there are no standardized versions of most drugs athletes take. Even if there are, just about everyone uses UGL gear. So it's not a risk I want to take anymore personally; I think the avid users tend to downplay the risks and focus on the positives to avoid cognitive dissonance.

[@avatar1867]

@@mzmPACman Well you're talking unknown risk. Testosterone replacement therapy has been around for a while no? You're talking about blasting steroids? If you fear the unknown there will always be cognitive dissonance. I'm simply contemplating the most likely known and related. Here's one, "apperently" if you take high dose fish oil as a smoker you'll live as long as a non smoker. Smokers who live into their 90s have a gene that reduces inflammation in the body. Fish oil reduces and manages inflammation. It can be inferred that Inflammation reduces your life. I'm sure more studies can be done. Bodybuilders dont die for no reason, go look it up and find out. You kept it as "dropping dead of unknown reasons" not true. John Meadows died of a blood clot. Women on birth control,smokers, those prone to clotting are all increasing this risk. High e2 as well. Haha reality is, even medical studies deal in percentages, statistical data and probability. A 95 chance of vasectomy working is a 5 percent chance to fail. But is that daily? Over the course of 10 years? Details matter. Take me. Open testicular, cauterized abdominal with a fascia interposition vasectomy. Most secure vasectomy out there. I get a sperm test once a year. Guess what? Probably still some marginal chance that it fails. There was still a marginal chance of chronic post vasectomy pain even though I mitigated it. Fact is, we are surrounded by the unknown, the cognitive dissonance is thinking you know better than the beast of the unknown. Haha, surrounded by cosmic horror the fool walks blind folded with a smile, having faith he knows better than the world. Sorry I'm playing. Let me ask, now that you're off test, how's your e2 and test levels? I had low test levels ,350. And an e2 of 14. Those are my natty high levels. Without trt I just feel like shit randomly and often.

[@mzmPACman]

​@@avatar1867 Not really sure what you are arguing here, I'm just making the case that simply checking your labs, while wise, can confer a false sense of security with long-term cycling, or even high-dose "TRT". I think we can say with certainty that supraphysiologic doses of androgens do not increase the lifespan, and increase CV morbidity and mortality. So while we cant QUANTIFY these risks for many reasons, we can infer a dose-dependent risk profile, influenced by other things like your genetics, other PEDs used, lifestyle, etc. There are so many variables it's impossible to measure. If you quit by a certain age is the damage reversible? Who knows. Just becomes a cost/benefit analysis as you get older.

[@avatar1867]

@@mzmPACman I apologize I go off on my own tangent sometimes. Chasing the rabbit hole. 🐇 Oh certainly high doses cycled or sustained have an effect, especially on CV which already is a less than fully understood field as it mingles in with diet and life styles. I do believe the variables could be quantified and measured if someone was willing to do the studies. However in today's age it's deemed immoral an people stick their heads in the sand like it's not happening anyway. A variable many don't consider is bodyweight be it muscle or fat doesn't matter "weight" puts strain on the heart regardless of where that weight comes from. Cost/benefit analysis I get it. Personally I stick to trt doses. Do you still do trt? Beware low test and low E2 can be equally as detrimental as high. More or less I do agree with you. Side note if I didn't already mention, truly look into high dose fish oil. Both for quality of life and for extending you life there is probably not a better supplement.

[@kylemckinney_22]

I see it from a more philosophical view (theological view to be more precise as I'm Christian) and I can't see how anyone that is Christan can justify using PEDs as from my view you are basically telling God that the body (image of God) you have is not enough and that you need more.

[@ryanrogers8211]

That is a great point, what is your view on cosmetic surgery and makeup for women? Personally I think it's a personal decision for the Christian. Ask the Holy Spirit if you can take it or not provided it's legally obtained. TRT/HRT can have very good health benefits.

[@geneharrogate6911]

Then why even bother training at all?

[@ststrength5044]

I used super physiological doses of Test from 36-41 y.o for amateur PL. I was looking for that 10% increase in strength. I stayed away from other compounds. Then I became a christian at 42. I never had the desire to put PEDS in after, that being said I spent the next 6 or so years suffering from low T, my levels were in the tank and there wasn't anything that I could do to bring them back up. My Doc put me on TRT nearly 2 yrs ago and I will say I feel much better. The decision I made 14 yrs ago of which hindsight never needed to be made was what put me in this situation of now relying on hormone replacement. However in the back of my mind there is some conviction around it and not sure if I want continue for the rest of my life, I reason with myself to stay on because the alternative would likely be more problematic long term.

[@almost41632]

gay

[@geneharrogate6911]

@@ststrength5044 And thats the story that rarely gets told, and I'm sure, as you're aware, TRT itself comes with its own risks. Juicing use to be the purview of athletes, I get it, the competitive urge burns far brighter in some people, but now its influencers and social media gym bros 'doing it for the gram', and the clicks and to flog merch. Asinine beyond belief.

[@ryanrogers8211]

a certain jab is far worse than PED's. Gotta love the lack of free speech on youtube

[@Mysticbladegod]

Honestly, I don't believe that PEDs belong in strength sports or any sports at all. Get better naturally and be patient.

[@RagingRugbyst]

And you'd be strictly and wholly wrong, because humans have been abusing any kind of performance increasing substance they have had acces to since the dawn of time. From ephedra to coca(ine) to steroids when they were finally synthesized, humans have always enhanced themselves in some manner whenever they could. Deal with it. Also coffe, coffe is a PED so you are not natty if you take preworkout as you are enhancing your adrenaline response.

[@MrVictoria69]

Winstrol works great 💉

[@kevinnummi3154]

Not really