Skaven 2022 Battletome Review - Warhammer Weekly 06292022

Join us for another week of news, rumors and everything Warhammering! This week, we are getting into the new Skaven battletome! The horned rat has once again blessed his children and is it time for verminous horde to rise up or should we all be scurrying away? Tune in and find out.
#warhammer #aos #ageofsigmar
0:00 News
15:10 Pick of the Week
21:00 Hobby Time
30:00 Skaven Overview
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[@ageofsigmarlistlab1706]

Thanks for having me on guys, apologies for leaving early. I foolishly thought ≈4 hours would be sufficient 😂

[@xbogx]

hey. is your middlehammer content on a different channel?

[@dafruk1]

Part timer!

[@cyriltournier5784]

Just saw your new video, I hope that means you're back, your videos are always super interesting!

[@VinceVenturella]

It was an absolutely pleasure to have you on.

[@angerworm]

You're consistently one of their best guests.

[@1989eol]

It's so nice when the guests have decent audio. So, so nice.

[@VinceVenturella]

I can only agree.

[@rafel81]

​@@VinceVenturella18:03

[@davidwasilewski]

As someone who used to own about 300 metal Skaven back in the WHFB days, I think Skaven should ignore the reinforcement restrictions as they are the ultimate horde army.

[@VinceVenturella]

Thank you

[@komsomoletz828]

This episode I discovered that if I combine severe jet-lag and Warhammer Wednesday, I can vividly dream that Vince personally helps me pick out my Skaven army - even if I keep asking him to find me some Gloomspite. 😂

[@VinceVenturella]

Checks out.

[@fokin_skaven]

Hmm, what if a skaven line glow-up is coming with the release of the Old World? It would pretty much all come together

[@VinceVenturella]

That would be fine, but I am not sure the old world is coming before 2024 at the earliest, that being said, it would also kind of make me sad, because then it would just be old Skaven stuff. What I really want is what are the Skaven doing in the mortal realms? These are designs that in world are thousands of years old. A culture like this didn't invent anything new? There should be skaven tanks and godzilla monsters at this point.

[@RTBurruss]

100% with Vince on being an adult (40 years old) and jumping on rocks

[@VinceVenturella]

Absolutely.

[@Goon94]

You have been having amazing guests on your show Vince, like every single one just knocking it out of the park. As much as I love listening to you, please keep the great guests coming!

[@VinceVenturella]

We are going to try. :)

[@12pigeons-in-a-trench-coat]

Thanks for the detailed run through, super interesting army!

[@VinceVenturella]

Thanks!

[@corbingovers7559]

So to add some tinfoil to the hat the last part of the skaven lore section before the clans states that every bell in blight city has tolled 13 times and lightning has split the sky of the city. The thirteenth tower is glowing and a roar is coming from a crack behind its throne (the throne for the GHR). A crack that grows wider accompanied by the distant sound of scrabbling claws growing louder by the moment... Also in the chamon map, there are 3 major skaven incursions surround a major stormcast city (vindicarum) and have barak nar threatened too. Also there's several mentions of dawnbringer crusades finding vast swathes of nothingness where the skaven have stripped an area bare of all resources and life. Can we talk for a moment about how amazing the Lore writers are for Skaven? In the lore section, the skaven have 1) A WLC so massive that it kills 100's of slaves every time it fires, 2) a gun that taps into the skaven afterlife to shoot ghostly skaven at an enemy, 3) doomwheels with flamethrowsers, 4) something called a "reality imploder" and 5) a legion of enslaved giant wurms. (not mentioning things we already knew about like the skaven skypirates) Like where's this in the model range! I think we should lock the skaven lore writers and all the AoS sculptors in a room for a week with adequate food and water and see what comes out a la skreetch verminking lol. Given all of this, I think we're the 4.0 baddy like kragnos is the 3.0 baddy. If I were getting really crazy I'd say that the next starter set (since dominion didn't do great) should be DBC vs entirely new skaven line.

[@VinceVenturella]

Yes, YES - just yes to all of this. Like, we haven't seen the potential of Skaven in the Mortal Realms yet. I mean, the technology we have is 1000 years old and these are mad inventors and mutators - how has nothing changded?

[@meluckycharms321]

Just got into skaven and love this video. Thanks!

[@keithdornan6792]

Thanks for the usual insightful and fun video. Love seeing the passion for the lil rat lads!

[@VinceVenturella]

Happy to help!

[@Rathammergames]

Skaven player since 1991 \m/ thanks for the vid and insight🐭

[@VinceVenturella]

Awesome, it’s rare to meet someone with a longer Skaven track record than myself. ;)

[@sycho331]

Great show as always! I'll never understand why a faction that has hordes and hordes of rats always there behind the scenes doesn't have a summoning mechanic as an allegiance ability.

[@VinceVenturella]

Life is funny sometimes my friend. ;)

[@Hangfire100]

The wording for 'at the double' was changed in AOS3, but a lot of people still quote the AOS2 rules when the roll was changed to a '6', but it doesn't work like that anymore. The rule is simply add 6" to your move. So any bonuses e.g. add 3 to your roll just doesn't work with 'at the double'

[@VinceVenturella]

Yep, exactly correct.

[@starslayer2438]

I am happy to see that Warhammer's iconic rat people got a good battletome. Though I agree that it feels a bit all over the place: Some really cool and clever changes, but then some warscrolls that feel odd and outdated. Almost as if they flat out forgot to update a couple things. For Plague Censer Bearers, I had the idea of using Plague Monks with the staffs, then attach the chain-flail parts of the Hearthguard Berzerker flamestrike poleaxes at the top of the staffs. If you cut off the little dwarven runes and paint the flames like poison fumes, it would look rather fitting imo. (And would be cheap, if you know someone who has a bunch of those chain-flails lying around.) Maybe it is just that half the miniature line is hopelessly outdated, but this army feels brimming with conversion potential.

[@VinceVenturella]

Yeah, I think that's a good conversion candidate for sure.

[@anarchistkobold4375]

I'm back on the Hopeium that one of the new Chaos books next year will be Skaven MKII. My faith in the great horned rat is strong!

[@Hangfire100]

I have been writing unit tests all day (for a service I didn't write) I don't think I'd have made it through with out this show to keep me company. Thanks guys appreciate it.

[@VinceVenturella]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Clintv42]

Hey Vince, i’ve been planning the rat ogre bomb for this week and just realized I don’t think you can do it with the warp grinder. When the units come in from reserve from the warp grinder it’s at the end of the movement face. The pack master chooses what unit gets the +3 run/charge at the beginning of the movement phase. I’ve been looking for ways around it but don’t think there is one

[@VinceVenturella]

You are correct, you have to get them out there by hand, but they could come in from Gnawholes.

[@wideboyrob]

Please can we have a video where you guys through the rumour engines that have now been released and review what you said at the time. I'd love to see how wild your guesses are and also how many times Tom/Tyler get it right.

[@VinceVenturella]

That sounds like great fun.

[@Lodorn]

I find myself always feeling the need to go for reinforced stormfiends to make including an engineer for MMMWP and the sparks more worthwhile. Do you reckon they'll perform decent enough as range-threat as just one unit of 3 ?

[@VinceVenturella]

I think they are still okay yes, they can do work, but you have to temper your expectations. I mean 6 will still do heavy lifting, but it's a lot of points. It's just about the overall plan - what else are you putting on pressure with etc.

[@patnoon5477]

In preparation of buying the Skaven book, I kitbashed a warpfire thrower and a warpgrinder using mostly stormfiend bits and plague furnace bits lol the results weren't bad tho

[@Kimtanashino]

Nice ! I was planning to do the same !

[@VinceVenturella]

Excellent!

[@patnoon5477]

Today I kitbashed a Vermintide endless spell using the accrued extra rats from Plague Monks and a unit of Cursed City corpse rats. I think I’m getting the hang of this

[@BlaedDEntertainment]

I just wanna say that people should really be using Shock Tarts as Warpstone tokens. It just makes the most sense.

[@VinceVenturella]

Good call.

[@seraphoncobus]

Like👍🏻 for jumping up on rocks

[@VinceVenturella]

Thank yoU!

[@dalorasinum386]

Does anyone think that they saw what the longstrikes did and decided they didn’t want more units like that and that’s why the jezzails can’t be reinforced?

[@VinceVenturella]

Highly possible.

[@walterdimmick653]

I think I will like using Skaven with this book, but if I did not already own a huge collection of Skaven models, the FACT that this book was obviously phoned in, if I was a new player I would not start a Skaven army based on this book. Completely agree with Vince 100% on the epic failure of no method to manipulate reinforcement points. Really not buying into the various "it was delayed apologies". While I have models in abundance, if I was a new player, I would really wonder about support for the army based on how old many of the sculpts are. There are a lot of things I like about the book, but to me it definitely is "lackluster".

[@VinceVenturella]

That makes sense.

[@MagatsuNimura]

Loved the episode, you guys help put multiple perspectives on the battletome, it really opens up your list building options. Quick question, as I understand, the eshin battle trait doesn't require a hero for the first tier. It only requires 3 heroes in the second tier, right? Same as the Moulder battle trait. Some of this battle traits specify that they need a hero or a model for the first tier, and 3 for the second. But Moulder and Eshin are not specified. Am I wrong here? Also, I think Eshin battle traits stack with each other, right? You get the first tier and the second tier. Same as masterclan I think.

[@VinceVenturella]

Yes, that is how I read it as well. Which is strange, I think it might intend that you have 1, but FAQ will probably be asked. As to your second question, yes, we went through it quickly, but I did not mean it replaced, it's cumulative (the three with the initial).

[@morzorkatvfm]

I don't think Vince has opened with that much energy before

[@VinceVenturella]

I was/am excited. :)

[@nickthompson6642]

IMO Skaven will be the poster boy bad guys of AoS 4 as it rolls back around to Chaos as a threat. That’s when we’ll see a big range refresh, tho I could see small updates between now and then. Maybe a Moulder refresh to fit in with the Beast theme. A new kit with a Master Moulder, giant rats, and rat Ogors seems like a slam dunk.

[@VinceVenturella]

One can only hope it's then at the latest. :)

[@danieldombrowski5049]

Gotta get island of blood models for the good Warplock engineer, rat ogor, and warpfire sculpts!

[@VinceVenturella]

You're not wrong.

[@M0U53B41T]

I'm with you Vince! new models and new book in like 6 months maybe as much as a year - along with fully realized Eshin and Moulder clans, with Moulder given the ability to "make" monsters from other critters (Master Moulder can have any mount within a certain range size, maybe with some extra doodads we can fit onto the mount to make it look more Mouldery). New Monsters in general, "Brood" mare, and other various actual decent monsters. Upsized Storm Vermin/Fiends like Thanquols mount, only as infantry .... (Hey we can dream riight??) Also, I will def take 3 HPA if I can lmao

[@VinceVenturella]

Keep the dream alive.

[@thebryceroy6155]

Thanks Vince. Outta curiosity, what 3rd party proxies for night/gutter runners did you decide to go with? I'm having a surprisingly difficult time finding actually cool/good rat ninjas...

[@VinceVenturella]

Found some good ones on My Mini Factory, I actually am trying a few different prints to see how they come out, I will share once I have decided on one going forward.

[@thebryceroy6155]

@@VinceVenturella fabulous, looking forward to it! I'll have to take a deep dive and see what I can find for myself!

[@kopfnussklopfer8679]

So you think this book was prepared long time ago? It's because first, they thought that Skaven would be in the 3.0 Dominion Box against Stormcast!

[@VinceVenturella]

Feels like it.

[@reflexdogtraining1337]

Hey quick question: with Slynk and his pack, they mention on the war scroll that if* he is with his pack he and the pack can pop from terrain... does that mean he DOESNT have to be linked to them and can just be a solo Deathmaster? 🤔 not ideal, I understand, but still a question...

[@VinceVenturella]

Yes, you are correct.

[@reflexdogtraining1337]

@@VinceVenturella awesome. Thank you, Vince.

[@Tabletopreadygames]

Skaven should be allowed to rally while in combat once per turn

[@VinceVenturella]

I'd support it.

[@ProrokLebioda]

WIll watch later, wanted to drop my thoughts on Curseling during coffee break. I think mini if fine, it's adequate... Buuuut: I miss his brother whispering to him and I would like him to be bulkier. If I ever want to run him (not that I have Tzeentch army, only Kairos), I'd look for proper 3D mini that has those things.

[@VinceVenturella]

That's fair.

[@MakeshiftMarbleRuns]

Amazing video! I’ve watched it at least ten times so far as I bravely/foolishly picked Skaven as my first army. A question about something Sam said about the Eshin units fighting first, isn’t it only Slynk himself that has strike-first? I can’t see anything that says his Clawpack also has strike first. Or was he just talking about in your own combat phase? Could you clarify please?

[@VinceVenturella]

Yes, it's only him, but in your turn, it would be him, then you could pick his unit of course.

[@MakeshiftMarbleRuns]

@@VinceVenturella lovely, thanks.

[@RedHatRuss]

Tldr on this book. My friends skryre list has only dropped 3 games in 3 events. Under the new book he has 150 extra points to spend and more teleporting. Rats together strong!

[@VinceVenturella]

It's got potential.

[@just_fireball3958]

Totally agree with everyone's take on Screaming Bell. I've been playing Skaven for about a year now - Finally, 3 weeks ago, my Screaming Bell summoned a Vermin Lord and it was such an exciting moment in the game. That Vermin Lord put the team on its back, the rats got the win and my opponent had fun too. We were cracking up. Played a game last week and couldn't even get my opponent to engage with it, took 0 damage in 5 rounds 🤣

[@VinceVenturella]

Sounds about right. They can just kill it's escorts and avoid it.

[@patnoon5477]

This is exactly how I am hoping next Monday goes. I play Skaven at my FLGS and every week i get stomped, but after getting the new tome, I think next week is going to go down very differently, especially if my gnawholes arrive before then, I'm stoked either way!

[@just_fireball3958]

​@@patnoon5477 Good luck and have fun! The Gnawholes add a whole other dynamic, lots of utility. Teleport and casting/chanting bonus is great but the hidden value is the mind games you can play with your opponent. Bait them into moving units out of position to shut down your teleports or (if you don't care about making friends) plop one right in the middle of their deployment zone.

[@patnoon5477]

Also, thru the course of watching this video, I realized that I’ve been rolling entirely wrong. I was applying the attacks characteristic to the entire unit and not per model which isn’t a lot

[@ZombieMonkey7]

I'd love for Vince to do a slapchop video, that or a spicy take on Marco Frisoni Grisaille technique (same thing as slapchop, but slightly more effort)

[@VinceVenturella]

Well, I mean, I've done many, as this was certainly a thing (the undershading, whetherenithal or Grisaille) for quite a while. Here is a recent one - kzbin.info/www/bejne/oKS3gqOoe9OoqaM Here is another - kzbin.info/www/bejne/d6nUqYuGa6idfrs :)

[@reflexdogtraining1337]

4th time referring to this video, Vince. As always, much appreciated.

[@VinceVenturella]

Always happy to help. :)

[@qwijoma1873]

Great video as always. Is Warpgnaw (the forgeworld verminlord) still playable? I got a perfect cast cheap :)

[@VinceVenturella]

At the moment, yes, but I can't speak to that going forward. He is likely to change or get legends anytime.

[@filthycasual6619]

Everyone is getting the eshin battle trait wrong, It does not state "in stead of, or, only" This means you get Shooting bonus on one for taking 1 hero and you get melee bonus on all others for taking 3 Read clan verminous one and then read the eshin one. They would make the distinction like the former

[@hendrikrasmus]

Where does it state that the first Eshin bonus gets replaced when you have 3 or more Eshin heroes? By the current wording that bonus should stay.

[@VinceVenturella]

It does not, I hope we didn't make it sound like that, I was just saying the secondary bonus is for melee only.

[@hendrikrasmus]

I guess I read a bit too deep into Toms insistence that going 3 heroes is not worth it into assuming it being detrimental.

[@davidsturrock2733]

Aren’t Censer Bearers now on a 32mm base? (same as Acolytes)

[@VinceVenturella]

Yes, I was incorrect, I caught myself later.

[@ericlaplante4975]

Vince from what I can tell you can't cast purple sun after you have lauchon'ed because it's at the end of the phase, am I missing something?

[@VinceVenturella]

You're correct, I hope I didn't screw that up in here, keeping all the timing straight with stuff we were discussing was tough. I apologize if I got it out of sequence.

[@ericlaplante4975]

@@VinceVenturella no worries, it's some fancy footwork I wanted to make sure I didn't screw up in my games, thanks for getting back to me

[@shanehartman5122]

Love the show. Just wondering if anyone else has noticed the black coach and now Alarielle are no longer available. Weird this happened so soon after the battletomes releases.

[@VinceVenturella]

Maybe just sold out? No idea.

[@shanehartman5122]

Thanks for the reply. I think the Alarielle must have been a glitch. It is back up now.

[@kruledrew]

the bob loblaw gnaw bomb. you sir are a mouthful.

[@VinceVenturella]

You’re not wrong ;)

[@nightkids29]

is there anyway, i can download the skaven list

[@VinceVenturella]

I don’t have it uploaded anywhere unfortunately

[@rowandecker8473]

Rock jumper crew checking in.

[@VinceVenturella]

We are legion!

[@nathanbrooks3339]

Hoping this phoned in book is not an indicator of how much care they will have put into the Tzeentch book about to be released.

[@VinceVenturella]

I can't see the same thing happening to Tzeentch.

[@RyanForT3hWin]

I picked up Skaven when I started AoS in early 2.0, and assumed I would love the randomness. Instead it just always made me mad. I may be too spike for random everything. Shame, since everything here looks super fun.

[@VinceVenturella]

You gotta have that big timmy energy. ;) - Let the randomness take you.

[@RyanForT3hWin]

@@VinceVenturella I tried :D Also, awesome content. Thanks for the info every week!

[@Mnil7]

Any discord/what'sapp to skaven group arround? Interested in more lists

[@VinceVenturella]

There is a Skaven WhatsApp, but I don't have admin rights. I know AoS Coach's discord is always a hotbed of list writing action.

[@nightkids29]

I wish we have new weapon platform for skaven

[@VinceVenturella]

Indeed!

[@XxFOUSTxX]

What's up Tom!! How's the Deepkin doing my friend

[@timlaunius3360]

Keep hope alive!

[@VinceVenturella]

Always!

[@stanchakovsky]

I am just only getting into AoS 3.0 and restarting my abandoned skaven collection.. Is it worth it getting into the special veterans and bounty hunters nonsense if I am only going to play with equally inexperienced buddies, or can we skip it?

[@VinceVenturella]

Skip it, it will all change in 2 months anyway. :)

[@hawkeye9517]

No terrifying on Verminlords anymore. From re-checking on the app anyways.

[@VinceVenturella]

Correct, that did go away.

[@daswookie79]

Who doesn’t like standing on some rocks!?

[@VinceVenturella]

Exactly!

[@stephenchurch1784]

Why doesn't the bell move by magic? Because anyone with the power to make it move with magic has the power to make clanrats push it instead. I agree that it sucks from a gameplay perspective

[@VinceVenturella]

Yes to both. :)

[@Mech_rat]

Man y’all saying shadow magnet trinket is meh aged like milk😂😂 Thing is like the most taken skaven artifact now next to warpstone charm

[@christophertaylor3770]

today I learnt I'm younger than plague priest

[@VinceVenturella]

There you go. :)

[@warpseer]

no chance this book was for 3.0 originally

[@VinceVenturella]

It just feels off right?

[@georgesimo9197]

Ral Partha burn. Scathing.

[@VinceVenturella]

I mean...it's not wrong... ;)

[@StrengthHammer]

DoK not a Horde army.... *Laughs in Draichi Ganeth*

[@VinceVenturella]

That comment may have been directed at one person in particular. ;)

[@TerrierHalo]

Johnny? Jawny? Jawninesh? Jonniesh?

[@VinceVenturella]

There you go.

[@TerrierHalo]

@@VinceVenturella I was just starting to grok Timmy! :/

[@ap315]

Came here to see your thoughts on the screaming bell and it is as bad as I thought it would be. And no battle shock immunity while the stupid furnace does? Terrible and yeah it is THE Skaven model. Lame

[@kalhas80]

ogor shoggoth hand the skin painting looks lizzardy

[@VinceVenturella]

Not a bad call

[@markoseldo2007]

Chain Warp Lightning - another wizard casts Lauchon, bombardier or engineer gets zipped right in front of enemy army. Every single unit takes poke damage, forcing at least half a dozen battleshock rolls. Not great against everyone, but not useless

[@VinceVenturella]

I guess, but I'd much rather roll the purple sun and a jaws or something honestly.

[@markoseldo2007]

@@VinceVenturella fair point!

[@Uberzooka]

This is what I don't get about people saying tome GSs and BTs are too easy. You say: skaven have super easy tome GSs, throw them in the sun. Then immediately after that you say: here's a generic GS that is so easy I've gotten it every time I've played this army... obviously the tome GSs being easy isn't a problem then

[@VinceVenturella]

It's not just about the ease of completion, there is a suite of issues I discussed. It's the ease of some and not others, it's the inequity across books, it's the fact that it disrupts the interesting balance that having a tight set of 8 BT encourages. I actually don't care too much about the GS, they are mostly just dead weight to most games, it's the BT that I think are actually bad for the game as a whole.

[@Uberzooka]

@@VinceVenturella but what about the ease of some armies at completing the generics, the inequality across books when some armies are good at doing the generics and some armies have to play in awkward ways they were not designed to play just to keep up in score? On a different note, with no variety in BTs there's stagnation, such as last season seeing every single player choose hold hands and run turn 1 every game. Sure there's variety now because it's new, but once those 8 tight BTs are analyzed and "solved" it's gonna be pretty repetitive. It seems like such a prejudiced and heavy handed decision to blanket ban all army specific GSs and BTs, and it seems the decision has been made by a handful of content creators and just repeated by everyone else without proper consideration or any real play testing or real large scale tournament data behind the choice.

[@Chrono0000000]

I love skaven, but I hate the older models, compared to the few new ones look hideous

[@thebryceroy6155]

Ginormous hands and weird Tex Avery cartoon lookin' monkey-rat faces! I want jezzails so bad, but not THOSE jezzails.

[@VinceVenturella]

Oh, you are so very correct.

[@thel1chking]

“Humanized in their femininity” 🤣

[@VinceVenturella]

I couldn't think of any other way to say it. but you know...

[@niilofriden4465]

.

[@VinceVenturella]

:)

[@onionhat745]

It really did feel like kind of a lazy book. Definitely nowhere near as creative as the only other 3.0 Battletome I own, Maggotkin.

[@VinceVenturella]

Rough comparison for sure.

[@lestrike2707]

Playing against Skaven is the (reoccurring) most unfun experience I’ve ever had in Age of Sigmar. The mortal wounds- that don’t even need a hit roll- are out of control, ruining the whole game experience and turning it into a one sided mess. Imo most units are undercosted for the (MW) damage potential they have. I personally will refuse to ever play again against this army. 4 games vs the new skaven were 4 games too much. I am not saying Skaven are too strong, however playing against them will ruin your game, since you know: losing 1/3 of your army per turn by a gazillion mortal wounds that have no reason to even be on most warscroll is super interactive and fun. It’s ridiculous to a point that you could Gatekeep new players from the game playing vs this army. Example: Why does the Hell Pit Abomination deal Mortal Wounds (basically auto killing every unit it tokio drifts into)? It’s smaller than most big Dragons and giants that can’t do that - it’s just another example of how to not write a warscroll. - Karazai and Krondys would like to have a word. (By Skaven standards these two dragons would cost 325 points each, just compare the stats to the Hell Pit Abomination) Examples of the last hames: One Warplightning cannon avaraged to 8 MWs per turn, suffering 2 in return. The Hellpit averaged 16 mortal wounds. My opponent rolled well, that’s no excuse though that my games are ruined if he rolls slightly above average. It’s the worst. Such Situations should not even be possible from the get go. No units should even remotely have access to this abundance of Mortal wounds.

[@VinceVenturella]

That's an unusal experience I will say. What are you playing? Most of the times I've ever used a hellpit, they just die without doing much. Statistically, an overcharged WLC kills itself in two rounds. So it could be that there is some hot dice or somethin in your opponent's favor.

[@cyriltournier5784]

@@VinceVenturella personally, I've had (prior to the new book) an abomination kill Archaon in 2 rounds without breaking a sweat.

[@lestrike2707]

@@VinceVenturella I played Daughters of Khaine :) (no Morathi) My Cauldron(s) are usually wiped by the start of turn 2 (Warp Lightning Cannons) as are my foot heroes.

[@hailhydra7959]

@@lestrike2707 Seems like you’re having the experience which is usually reserved for playing against Elves