How do we tackle racism in football? | The Debate | Bamba, Murphy, Lewis & Holt

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Danny Murphy, Sol Bamba, Darren Lewis and Oliver Holt join Geoff Shreeves for a special edition of The Debate on the media's role in tackling racism.
After the alleged racial abuse of Raheem Sterling by Chelsea supporters at Stamford Bridge on Saturday, the panel tackle a wide range of issues surrounding racism in football.
Figures from the professional game - Bamba and Murphy - and two of the country's leading journalists - Lewis and Holt - examine the impact of Sterling's response to the incident and what the next steps are for the football world.
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[@deegoruddy7]

I remember I year or so ago & that black female footballer Aluko came out saying she & others are getting racism from their own national team coach! Everyone in the public, in the Media & ex pros denounced her claims. She was ostracised & exiled from the England team. Funnily enough another person came out with hard concrete evidence & before you know it they were forced to sack him. But that is one example where there is clear evidence of the FA etc covering it up & ignoring it until they had no choice but to address it before it became a bad light on their organisation for ignoring it.

[@amonduul2154]

In what way from the coach?

[@minimead368]

Arsenal players in a nightclub doing nothing illegal but a frowned upon activity makes the front page and has a two page inner spread but a banana being thrown at a black Arsenal player only makes the back page, why?

[@Agee1]

Shows the problem with newspapers like the mirror and sun.

[@minimead368]

Agee1 I found it funny how sterling shows the bias of the written press yet the two paper guy spend all show defending the papers. out of touch comes to mind

[@honeyglazedgammon2318]

Because had he thrown an apple core it would have received even less attention, that's how absurd your logic is over an inanimate object. News is also relative, Theresa May and this vote of no confidence and Brexit will consume the country for another week now, some days slow none news days, so none stories get hype.

[@Agee1]

@@minimead368 Talking about how the Daily Mail the has changed my employing more minorities while printing prejudiced stories like sterling's example. John Barnes said it best football racism can't be fixed bans our simple discussions, society as a whole need to face this problem.

[@timothythomas7445]

Mini, we all know why.

[@3mrspacelyfaisal]

Gotta start in schools, educate the youth because the grown ups/ middle age people who are stuck in their ways can't really be persuaded. Youth are the future we should try to help them be more aware. Abusing people should never happen, no matter the colour or race.

[@daro3416]

stewart mathurin grow up.

[@3mrspacelyfaisal]

@@daro3416 thanks.

[@L_Kay]

The first smart statement I've seen 100% correct

[@3mrspacelyfaisal]

@@L_Kay thanks Luke

[@JoeHypershell]

you are spot on mate, it's really sad to say but some of the middle aged abusers are past the point of no return and education is everything. We have to pump money into making the right impression on kids to head in the right direction

[@enragedenglish]

This panel was great. Honestly as a white guy, hearing both Darren and Sol talk about their experiences with certain nuances and casual racism, as well as Danny being open about his unconscious biases, I can do better in confronting my own as a white guy. Really wish we had these types of panel discussions regularly. It always intriguing and informative to hear how words make others feel especially from a black man's perspective. If we can find cut off the deep roots of this vicious disease, in terms of how we tackle racism subconsciously and overtly, and are brave in talking to each other and being honest and open about how to rid ourselves of it without feeling fear of rejection, then I think we can all find a solution. Bravo gentleman! Please keep it up. Also please look at Barnes interview on Good Morning America too!

[@haakonhaga]

Sol Bamba's english tho, damn... Him and Bellerin should play for England

[@philipperry7946]

Sols a taff deep down. 👍 hes loved here. but we dont racially abuse players at the football. what kind of prick would ? ahhh yeah Chelsea chelsea sort your "fans" out. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

[@charmcity1590]

I always knew the british press was powerful but wow sterling is just as powerful and influential

[@tunjilegba]

Charm City Just as powerful? How do you work that out as these institutions were around long before him

[@marcowilliams1841]

Black football players should just walk off the pitch or take a knee. Like Mario Balotelli did a few years ago.

[@shads_5045]

So let me get this straight, Murdoch tv empire and Mail on Sunday wants to end racism! I'm dead 😂

[@danielpaisley6818]

"Thanks Jeff"

[@matthewhardwick8208]

I think it's great that this is being talked about. But we need to take more action to stop racism in this country. Punish those who think it's ok to abuse people like this. Lifetime bans from football. They have no right to watch black professional footballers if they cannot respect them as human beings.

[@daro3416]

Matthew Hardwick ladies and gentlemen.... meet the king of virtue signallers. Let me ask you, oh wise one. Have you ever been racially abused?

[@gojkins2813]

Have only ever used the word beast in football as a compliment to any player who is performing exceptionally, no matter what their race, nationality, skin colour, height, weight, sex, religion or food preference is. Would hate for the word to be considered as negative word that is frowned upon. Just use it for everyone if they are performing exceptionally.

[@kolawoleplaya]

Oliver Holt is chief sports writer for the Mail on Sunday. His paper has consistently been one of those which lambasted Sterling over time. It's disappointing he didn't give specific actions and/or inactions his paper has taken and will take to combat the issue.

[@CommanderCrustacean]

Sounded like damage limitation that they even sent him there

[@alfier1736]

Tbf, although owned by the same company, the Daily Mail and Mail on Sunday are essentially two different newspapers with two different editors and tone of reporting. Just look at the difference in their coverage of Brexit for example. The Mail on Sunday also tends to hold more integrity than the Daily Rag.

[@andrew30m]

Why would any parent take their children to football, playing or watching, racism, homophobia, misogyny, disrespect of officials, disrespect of opponents, where are the good life lessons?

[@MyPortsmouth]

We love u Raheem we love ALL black people

[@captainsmoke1612]

Raheem is a spoiled brat and a giant dumbass! Look how he behaves on the field, that showboating all the time. He's an asshole!

[@leejohn9754]

this isnt football problem...its a society problem...you have celebrity panel and dabating racism....bring in a regular citizen to these kind of debate.

[@warrenlondon2426]

lee john Well said, I completely agree

[@thegentleman4873]

Its odd that these people all agree, its almost like its not actually a debate at all...

[@QualityoverQuality1]

Jon Barnes is needed he's always dropping Gems - it was a decent debate, but you can see in the body language of the journalist most of their opinions are sugar coated

[@kenengirth3022]

Great intelligent debate, always love Darren Lewis and sol bamba sounds like very impressive man

[@rajanbaid8033]

At 46:26 couldn't help but think "what like the England captain who racially abused an opponent and the media went into overdrive to defend"

[@magneleonardkarlsen3358]

I was eleven years old when I wrote my first ever letter to the Norwegian Supporters Club Norway's fanzine "The Kopite" - and it was about my disgust with Bob Paisley saying black players were lazy, and that none of them were good enough to play for Liverpool F.C. 182, I think. I was thinking (an writing): "Right. Is that right? Would Pelé, Garrincha or Eusebio not be good enough to play for Liverpool in the 1960s? I seriously doubt it. I also think Paisley would."

[@professor4444]

the "lazy" race argument sounds to me like complete nonsense in this era

[@tunjilegba]

professor4444 In this era but people who used it as a slur in the 70s are just a bit older and run companies that influence society

[@gregsimpson6337]

Been in my thirties I am completely ignorant of any racial connotation around the word lazy. I thought that bit sounded like complete bollocks. But it turns out I’m ignorant of the previous use of lazy as a slur. But that’s actually good in away the fact that I have never heard lazy used like that means things have changed a bit. Unfortunately in the modern age of players often lacking motivation it’s a natural thing to talk about. I personally think Pogba is lazy and needs to try harder and I say that not meaning any racial element or abuse at all.

[@tunjilegba]

Greg Simpson When a forward doesn’t track back he’s considered lazy. Laziness isnt race specific. There are plenty of black wingbacks for that myth to be debunked. But social connotations to Black people having poor work ethic is sub consciously overstated

[@gregsimpson6337]

I ended my comment by saying I think Pogba is lazy. I think it's acceptable to say that because he is and before I saw this video I didn't even know about the history of racial abuse around that term. I mean it only to mean he lacks effort and not any greater darker under tone.

[@thegentleman4873]

@@tunjilegba so do people who evolved in different climates over thousands of years all have different appearances and physical ability's but the exact same propensity for work ethic? Common man...

[@Ascension_Royal]

The problem is people complain about racism but when the discussion is brought up it’s amongst the least viewed videos produced. People should have more interest regarding topics that could change society but it all seems to be just noise.

[@kunyeiji8447]

Racism and any kind of prejudgement is a result of lack of education and instruction starting with the parents since the process of learning starts at home. This is the only way to make the mankind to evolute spiritually.

[@waynesimon1439]

This is why racists will never change when you have Danny Murphy taking about this. Shame he doesn't talk about how he lit the match..

[@timothythomas7445]

What do you mean, "How do we", who is we!

[@thegentleman4873]

Its odd that these people all agree, its almost like its not actually a debate at all...

[@thegentleman4873]

always the case with PC crap, its just about mind control

[@XxB42k15xX]

I know a lot more people that think Morata is useless shite than think he’s intelligent

[@vedhanthrathod6576]

He is intelligent mate

[@Leeroyr15]

I agree with some points however I've called the likes of Gerrard, Lampard, Shearer (just to name a few) as absolute beasts. I used to model my game when I was younger on who I thought was the original "beast" in Duncan Ferguson.

[@Leeroyr15]

Ah right I honestly didn't think of it that way tbh!

[@patrickcroysdale4729]

Why just in football? why not in society?

[@bftb]

91% white ethnicity in the media in a country with 87% white population isn't exactly a drastic difference is it? I'm all on board with equality but sometimes it feels like the movement is hindered by those looking for problems where they aren't. Focus on the problems with equality that are real. The point about the use of the word lazy for example is a serious stretch, I think. All races of footballers are referred to as lazy in the press and I don't think it's ever done with racial undertones. There's no shortage of real cases of racial bias, focus on those. Battling problems that don't exist is a sure fire way to achieve nothing.

[@edd..e]

Positive discrimination is actually required to protect minorites in society or nothing changes Honestly over reprsentation of BAME people like say 25 or 30% in the media would help bridge the gap of misunderstanding and trust and help integrate all people in society until we reach a future where positive discrimination is not necessary. if we simply maintain a 8:1 ratio people will remain ignorant and racism doesn't get stamped out. Plus the laziest thing in football ironically is journalism ie mourinho vs pogba round 1446778532

[@marctaddei7524]

@@edd..e This is the dumbest comment i've read in a while

[@007Fusiion]

'the movement is hindered by those looking for problems where they aren't' - Really depends on what angle you are coming at it from really.

[@goOTBT]

+bftb I agree that players of all races get called lazy and I'm sure this issue isn't as bad as in the past. But I don't see how anyone can claim to know that it's not 'ever done with racial undertones'. Actually I suspect that if you did an analysis accross 10 years of coverage you would find that words like 'lazy', 'beast' etc are more commonly used about black players, but this won't change until society as a whole changes. This is not easy, because well meaning people can absorb incorrect stereotypes at a young age, without even realising - this is the beginning of what is called implicit or subconscious bias. John Barnes has talked a lot about it.

[@kevhughes1981]

This was excellent and prescient too

[@Adil1amin]

Not to undermine racism against our young black players, but is it only me, but are Asians forgotten when It comes football and racism. When was the last time you saw an British Asian footballer play for England? No actually an British Asian footballer? British Asian manager? There seriously needs to be a conversation about this too.

[@iBOXRIVER]

Adil G So why don’t ASIANS bring it up ??????

[@stevedoherty100]

At the beginning of the show, Geoff Shreeves said as normal we will reflect on what a terrific Champions League action for both Liverpool and Tottenham, must have missed that part.

[@007Fusiion]

Maybe he said that as that was the only way you would listen to the discussion.

[@somebodyelseuk]

Start by NOT asking how to stamp it out in football. Dya think it DOESN'T happen outside football stadium??? The inside of the stadium is governed by the same laws as the outside, so EVERY time a law is broken, PROSECUTE. It's the POLICE/CPS responsibility to sort this out, not the club or the FA... and if that means you have to go after every one on the Kop/Stretford End/Etc, so be it.

[@ollygoddard5055]

Thought it was grant holt ffs

[@ollygoddard5055]

No wtf are you on about

[@geckopubg]

Racism will always be around unfortunately, not just in football, there's not much you can do it all starts with education.

[@RenegadeAce]

Most of the time we just brush it off...it aint easy being the minority...

[@tbradders]

A lot of good views made. If you disagree then you need to open your mind

[@Maj1794]

Unfortunately I don't think racism will ever end and there isn't any real solution to put an end to this once and for all.. its down to the individuals to educate themselves and be responsible for their own actions!

[@inspirationalpostbyleverso6263]

That's what I call a discussion Black and White talking about race. Well done men.

[@ciaranconlon5451]

Good how they got an equal panel so it's not awquard it's good that this topic is finally being spoken about

[@87Michael]

HUWite Pride The media or sports media?

[@mancuniandevil6452]

Place microphones around the pitch directed at the stands. If a player is racially abused, the player reports it to the referee and the game is abandoned. Check the audio logs and if the abuse is confirmed, then the player's team is awarded the win.

[@Jo-jf8bb]

Nick Pope good ideas but imagine a fan pretending to be apart of the other team so he does it and the opposition he really supports gets the points.

[@007Fusiion]

And if the fan is wearing a jersey with a certain players name, suspend the player or automatically give the player a free transfer somewhere.

[@mancuniandevil6452]

@@Jo-jf8bb I thought about that but I assume that the police would be involved in the investigation and such deception would be discovered rather quickly. With such a negative consequence to a team, my bet is that supporters would actually police themselves and such abuse would disappear quickly as no real supporter would ever want to be the reason why their team loses a match.

[@jamendya]

i believe this would be a good way to solve the matter of racism in this country and i mean all of us too. its simple let us help you and create our ideas for this country. its so easy, i don't know how blind we've become as people in this country, no idea to push on as people. White people (thats said by love) cannot do everything for themselves they need help in all sorts of departments and they can't see that (look i love all people of colour as a friend, but this is just a point of character,i speak). i was saying to myself the other day, if there were no black people playing football for a year, who would when the premiership? burnley i guess. football is a white organisation and they call the shots. we have no mangers, no football clubs, no say. who really wrote kickout racism, i know it wasn't a joint enterprise. we have no voice to move on and it shows in football. there is a answer but we need to prepare for change. were not american we can fix our problems as people and show the world how its done..

[@3mrspacelyfaisal]

Also we should all be empathetic, it goes a long way.

[@thegentleman4873]

Its odd that these people all agree, its almost like its not actually a debate at all...

[@denissuholitco5618]

JOSE OUT!!!

[@toptiergamers5656]

Lol

[@redmed10]

When this issue comes up I always remember shaka hislop's story of when he started receiving racial abuse by a bunch of kids one day when he was out until they recognised who he was and then they were all asking for his autograph. And he gave them the autographs.

[@Pat-The-Fat]

That guy(s) who shouted at Sterling should be put in a prison cell and let him/them rot like a pig/pigs. Disgraceful ! Shame on you

[@awfan221]

I agree about everything, but the lazy part. I think he over interprets the implications of the word lazy when used to describe footballers. If you argued that it's used more against foreign players (e.g. ozil) then I would have to agree

[@amour7979]

Racism is definitely wrong. However if I was getting paid as much as these are you could call me anything you could dream of.

[@abhinayrk985]

Anyone know the name of the intro song?

[@Quazzi]

It's a very difficult issue with regards to language and how to describe certain players. On one hand the negative connotations have to be acknowledged but on the other should language be changed based on someone's skin colour? Personally, I think not because that itself is discrimination but it's difficult because you want to avoid causing emotional distress to someone. I think the best course of action is acknowledging all the potential biases and negative connotations to some words and educating people on them then people can self-govern how the communicate with the knowledge of what can be seen as offensive. I also think that people should be aware of, like Danny said, unconscious tenancies to describe certain players with certain words such as 'Beast'.

[@tunjilegba]

People tend to subconsciously use it in reference to intimidation and strength but I think beast is a word that can become more palatable over time

[@redmed10]

Sol Bamba talks a lot of sense on this issue.

[@L_Kay]

Take time to see the amount of edgy kids in the comments with the most unfunny "jokes" like not in a serious way there just boring

[@janken4562]

With the pogba hair point. It’s a fine point, however if pogba played amazing that game nobody would’ve cared about the hair.

[@DesertEagle101]

holt means well, he slightly butchered the explanation re Kaep, Reid around kneeling for the anthem and talking about Selma but fair play to him for trying

[@redmed10]

If more people follow the edict - treat others the way you'd expect others to treat you - the world would be a better place.

[@esemenjume962]

WHY ON GOD'S EARTH ARE YOU BLURING THE OFFENDERS FACES? ARE YOU PROTECTING YOUR OWN AS USUAL? THEY ARE ADULTS AND THEY CHOOSE TO COMMIT THIS RACIAL CRIME IN A PUBLIC PLACE, WHY HIDE THIER FACES THOUGH?

[@flintstone5975]

Broadcast media is equally responsible in my opinion. I’ve stopped watching as a result..example MOTD although I haven’t watched for the past couple of seasons. How many times a black player is interviewed post match, then cuts back to the studio. The first comment made is “doesn’t he speak so well”. Look back at any Walcott interview and correct me if I’m wrong. Being well spoken is only a compliment if English is not your first language!!!

[@daro3416]

Flint Stone What is your opinion on racism in South Africa?

[@flintstone5975]

Da Ro Racism of any kind shouldn’t be accepted or tolerated. Everyone has a duty to do something about. Be it unconscious bias through to institutional we need to stop it and it will take everyone doing their bit. I don’t really want to comment on regions of the world but the FA’s can at least do More to cut it out of the game. Instead of giving out small fines to clubs or associations (I remember and only England v Spain game). The fine Spain got was soo minor....it disintegrated even cover how much was made selling food and drinks at half time. I bet it there were hearty fines in the millions or club embargo’s Botha clubs and FA’s would do more to kick it out!

[@daro3416]

Flint Stone grow up.

[@jamendya]

hello, i like this type of topic. look there are only to colour in football really, from this country and thats black and white (really). we need to build a black FA, and be more involved, if its race or equality and lack of of opportunities. We are black people just getting paid by the masters, with no understanding how to implement and build. this is all because we didn't fight to implement ourselves within the system. we don't find white jobs, we take theirs. thats also a problem why we have so much racsim chants. look I'm not blaming any colour here, but a realisation as to met half way, to build a better system in this country. good luck...

[@kanizmajeed147]

Kaperanic? Get the name right first 😞

[@pabloalarroyo]

Excellent video .

[@warrenforest7417]

I live in South Africa and we are going through our own transition period now and conversations like these are good to be had.

[@sonarbuge7958]

Mo Bamba

[@Detroiy2k]

Stop saying black..in law it doesn't mean skin colour..we brown or copper colour, it's like the panel ain't at all educated and some of the views are still held back ,should of had some1 who will speak opening as a dark skin person..women in football get it a lot aswell

[@thegentleman4873]

What original opinions. Footballers and football journalists are pathetic and out of their depth talking about these issues. They don't have opinions of their own but just echo what it is they think, they are supposed to think in accord with the demands of a PC culture they don't realise they are useful idiots in serving. Its pathetic.

[@andreashartono850]

How many white player that better than Mbappe, Aubameyang or Raheem Sterling ?

[@GiacoC]

Morata is just bad goalscorer... Lukaku is just...lazy....lazy black player...so what

[@darkdre62]

How do we tackle racism in football? Cleats up, thats how

[@deegoruddy7]

Even on the Hair subject The MEDIA put out a column only last week the Gendouzi for Arsenal should cut his hair like Felaini has :O only last week

[@5eek3r0fknowl3dg3]

12:33 he is a footballer tho :/

[@aledwyn6017]

Football is a mess prosecute fan and club

[@jimmyturner4909]

despicatble

[@CensoredScouser]

The video with the least amount of views on the channel hahah people come to see and hear football not lessons about racism

[@Shakirbindahir1998]

Ignore it don't give racism much attentìon problem solved

[@onephiftyone]

Stop caring about it.

[@allowman65]

This is the problem right here smfh

[@tunjilegba]

Apathy 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@Heavymetaltherapy1]

did he say Lukaku was a world cup winner ? lol

[@kdbcityzens9752]

He said that to pogba u idiot listen properly

[@Jeoplaxton]

Here's a tip. Ignore it. It goes away. Talk about it endlessly, it doesn't.

[@ItsAv3rageGamer]

Yeah lets just ignore it and hope it goes away. Thats why we're in this situation in the first place.

[@lordoffrog2354]

It was 1 guy, not that deep, he’s a nobody

[@slk369]

Banana skin was never a racial slur . It was the media that made a banana skin a racial slur . Think about that

[@L_Kay]

Huh? Pls explain cuz me confused

[@slk369]

@@L_Kay banana skin is a fruit but media made so much of it that that term was made a racial slur

[@slk369]

And i hate it

[@antoinedoinell]

Khan Bhai you must really like bananas or are incredibly stupid

[@slk369]

@@antoinedoinell yes i do , dont you?

[@slk369]

Racism in the UK must be solved by their own govenment . Stop making football or any other sport a political move . For real people just grow up

[@adamlevett4073]

This load of bollocks waist of my thank sky I should got Ashly Cole or Carlton Cole not these mugs

[@XerxesGammon200]

OMG, LOL, For how long are they going to milk this thing??? Raheem will be OK! MOVE ON! This self- pittying and victim complex is endless.............. lol

[@ovaloctopus8]

youre an idiot if you think this relates to one isolated incident.

[@XerxesGammon200]

@@ovaloctopus8 It is not isolated, so what? We all know racism is bad, but the ultras will use it as a weapon no matter how many hours we discuss this. Its never going away. Spain and Italy included.

[@chrisjackson4304]

Yeah it's never going away in countries like Italy and Spain because they're both years behind. These type of incidents are the norm there.

[@michaelplaysbass]

You're an idiot, lad. Doing nothing changes nothing. Educate yourself

[@nmnmnnn2688]

@@michaelplaysbass well said

[@tonypower9315]

That's easy, just let white players play that will solve it....looooool

[@thepolticalone961]

How stupid

[@jacoblloyd3768]

What a nob

[@jalaluddin6557]

Omg so typical lighten up people like you don't deserve to be in society