Slicing into MARTYRDOM, and of course I brought the FIXINS

[@zacharys8141]

Martyrdom has spawned the joke in my friend group whenever one of us gets our asses kicked were just building up martyrdom

[@Heavynaut]

"Its just free damage... I meant to do that"

[@voidyll5582]

A simple fix would be to give martyrdom an equivalent to temp hp regen on melee kills. The whole reason it worked in vermintide is that zealot could get temp hp and make it like he never lost the health in the first place if played skillfully. It doesn't work in darktide because once you lose that health is just gone until you find a med station, but if you use a med station then you lose the benefits of the keystone.

[@Jenkkimie]

I don't think that'll be enough simply because the way Darktide is different from Vermintide is there are a lot more ranged options for both you and especially ranged enemies. While individually Vefmintide enemy hit instances do more damage per hit, in Darktide you take damage more consistently. Regen would help marginally but the main problem is consistent durability.

[@voidyll5582]

@ I suppose, there would definitely be a balancing aspect to it of how much temp hp is regenned, but I still believe that it would work. It would change the current martyrdom from being a talent that gives rewards for playing badly, to a talent that gives rewards the more skillfully you can play. As intentionally getting low and then playing skillfully would allow you to eventually regain all that lost health as temp health. It would just take the skill factor to be able to consistently regain more temp hp than you are losing from chip damage. As for your ranged argument, there could be another node added alongside the melee temp hp one that allows zealot to also get temp hp ranged kills, or something to that effect.

[@linkthebalrog3386]

As a martyrdom main, personally I'd preffer something like +5 gold toughness per missing wound. That would get around missing toughness curios, with the added benefit that all your toughness replenishment helps prevent bleed thru even better, I use triple +stamina regen curios so I don't find stamina to be that big of an issue, but that might just be me

[@Ragnarok633]

The best summary I've ever heard of Martyrdom was "It wants you to play bad to get benefits, but you need to play good to take advantage of the benefits" and honestly anything that heavily encourages you to make the 'wrong' game decision for reward should be ridiculed and reworked. No I will not stop making fun of my friend who runs it saying 'oh i just use it like a safety net and it makes me stronger if i mess up' WHY NOT JUST USE A BUILD THAT REWARDS YOU HEAVILY FOR NOT SCREWING UP IN THE FIRST PLACE

[@Cheesepuff8]

What if u just like doing as much melee damage as possible

[@Ragnarok633]

@@Cheesepuff8 Downed Players dont do any damage. Just use a blazing Piety build and play better.

[@c4tchxxii867]

Cause fun.

[@SirDenghis]

Ha I'm sorry I'm with your friend on this one, I don't deliberately play at low health I just like having martyrdom there for when I screw up coz I definitely will screw up

[@prich0382]

It works on Zealot in Vermintide because TempHP is a thing, because you can have white health which is exactly the same as normal HP except it slowly decays but is easy to keep up, you can take full advantage of the benefits safely, but Darktide does not have TempHP, so it's not safe and frankly pretty dump to take Martyrdom.

[@Jelloz104]

I think the new flamer mechanic is the biggest reason for me that you mentioned. And you mentioned a lot of good reasons.

[@Jelloz104]

Martyrdom atm is for cheeky low level play to grab resources and play with friends that aren't as good.

[@Jelloz104]

Lastly, with 5% health on each wound curios and the 10% on skill trees would be 25%. 200x1.25 is 250. 7 wounds would be 250/7. Having six stacks in martyrdom would leave you with 35.71 which is about the same as what you were saying. Aka still in the party zone. Maybe they can adjust the numbers for six stacks? Lower dif would just get the benefit sooner. Keep a similar benefit for the explosion like you mentioned. With Martyrdom, I personally like the more damage you take the tougher you are and the more deadly you are. Slowly being beat down till you proc Holy Revenant and cleave your way up to 62.5 health feels great. Getting by with the skin of your teeth and limping to the green mist or next Med also sometimes happens.

[@MisterEtide]

If they made it just health related it would be much better without any other changes. Wound curios are useless. At least stacking health has other gameplay purposes and you could feel somewhat tanky.

[@truemisto]

i think that the game devs did not expect a "move incredibly fast and never ever go down ever" playstyle to be either possible at top tiers or the literally most effective playstyle, so some of these nodes are from a bygone era

[@denodagor]

Oh god, yeah the flamer changes... I really hope they change it so it only blows up if the last hit is ranged and on the fuel. So annoying right now... Or at the very least lower the outer radius explosion damage. God Emperor knows why those things hurt just as much when you're at the very edge of the explosion.

[@LocalInnocentHereticJoe]

They also act like barrel damage so they also bypass gold toughness

[@Jplane247]

Or at least get rid of explosion ignoring toughness.

[@ANDELE3025]

Honestly, it gives a reason to pay attention of how one shoots for everyone. Change so that non-fuel melee kills dont blow them up/give you a 2-3s timer before it goes kaboom would be very thematic tho. But fartshart addressing it is as likely as them making alerts to actually work 100% of the time, removing that certain attacks that arent momentum wipers cancel sprint (which is quite literally a bug since V1 as it doesnt happen if you have hold to sprint), eviscerators actually become eviscerator size and work with scourge (right now they cant build crit stacks against 3/4th of enemies even if they are bleeding), the psyker overperil fixes (which i think also effects the below meh scriers no explosion node), general carpal tunnel reduction settings, etc.

[@ipatchymakouli415]

Literally NOBODY would be complaining about it if it didn't bypass toughness. That's an easy fix, but does fatfish even care about it, that's another question...

[@TheOneTrueStAN]

The best part of this dogshit change is that enemy gunners can shoot the flamer and shift them into their 'will explode' state, BUT, the flamer's visuals indicating it'll explode will not activate. So I occasionally get absolutely fucking Killer Queen'd by flamers who look completely okay to attack in melee. I love this game, but im almost convinced the devs dont actually test shit, they check if it works like twice and launch changes.

[@colonelsuperior3805]

Martyrdom worked in vermintide zealot because of temp hp. God I wish darktide had kept vermintide health mechanics, just have toughness for ranged damage

[@crovaxvoneigen]

I reckon health curious should just be merged with the wounds curious at this point. Also for the martyrdom branches, it would be nice if one of them gave ammo regen. Makes ranged zealot viable at the cost of risk.

[@Vynalith]

Yeah, it's weird how the middle tree has some focus on ranged weapons and then its capstone just ignores them completely. That and the fact that you can't even reach the full 7 stacks makes it feel like martyrdom was something FS came up with before the rest of the talents and just threw it in because they couldn't think of anything better. As much as I love it, it's definitely out of place.

[@well8250]

Martydom is that thing that i will always play simply because i find it extremely fun, is it actually too effective? Probably not no, however i am good enough to not die with it, hell i carry alot of lobbies with it, its very very effective but it just throws safety out the window and thats what i love about it, cuz its either i play well or i die simple as, fortunently i can, however, the biggest issue i have with other ppl who use it, is when they cant, i will stand by this to the end of the earth, im fine if u wanna go out alone and leave the team, as long as you can actually handle it

[@MyRedHulk]

I've seen a handful of exceptionally good martydom players. And when the medicae was down, they would always say "go on, heal" like we were in a war movie, and their time was coming. I had never been more thankful to play with a martydom zealot.

[@well8250]

@MyRedHulk the argument of "oh you can't use medicae your wasting it cuz u nerf yourself" feels like empty cuz you can just give it to someone else or use it anywyas for safety. Not like your intentionally getting low... well hopefully

[@Little_monde]

​@well8250 with marty you should be intentionally playing at 2 wounds (~60 hp) the entire game

[@ZombieJeff]

The easiest fix for Martyrdom would be to make the core talent of the capstone grant a passive effect that makes it so you don't take chip health damage through toughness (ideally maybe only after your current wound), but I feel like that effect might be too powerful and could lead to some issues. I actually like the idea that it's tied to wounds instead of health, but I do feel like if they want to keep it tied to wounds they should add an extra +1 wound minimum to each of the talents in the capstone itself; ideally this should be the capstone that DOESN'T require you to take ANY +1 Wound on curios instead of needing you to itemize for it. I also think an additional node that lets the zealot stand back up every minute or so would be another huge help to make it less of a liability, though maybe make it so triggering it causes you to gain another stack of corruption so you're still playing around that risk-reward mechanic

[@ZombieJeff]

The other idea I could see for it is to make the capstone basically switch you from one set of buffs to another as you loose wounds; maybe ranged bonuses while you have health that turn into melee bonuses as you burn through that health. Even if it means decreasing the overall amount of bonuses you get at one time it would give you a choice, it would make healing a choice to play around instead of avoid. It still could have a "driven by faith in the emperor" vibe too, just a bit more in line with the Sisters of Battle's miracles giving way to adrenaline fueled mayhem.

[@redrook]

I prefer the TDR. I think getting tanker as your health goes down is part of the point of the keystone. We already have a speed based keystone. If anything I think they should lean harder into tankiness with it. Add stacking toughness replenishment to your attacks to your kills. I think the keystone should basically be less about dmg dealing and more about sustaining. Zealot already has lots of dmg dealing. Add more options to their playstyle.

[@prich0382]

The problem with that mindset is Toughness is NOT a full shield, think of it as a Health Damage reduction bar, at full Toughness, you have 100% Health damage reduction, but as soon as you have less than 100% Toughness, you'll start to take Health Damage and it increases the lower your Toughness. So please don't take it, it's incredible stupid.

[@rastanamag59]

@@prich0382 just have the perk where when you take health dmg you’ll slowly regen a portion of it over 5 seconds. I sucked with martyrdom til I threw that on and now my health very rarely drops below half a bar unless I make I mistake or get fucked by a swarm of ragers or smthn. For the curious run all wounds with all of em having increased toughness and health, and then for the last slots what ever you feel like choosing (I personally use flamer dmg red, gunner dmg red, and faster ability cool down as I like to play as a suicidal maniac with a hammer)

[@randomguyblank1616]

@@prich0382 yes, that's true, but also less toughness gone means the less you have to regenerate to get back to 100%. There's a reason why almost everyone takes Iron Will on Veteran

[@cameronnorris7315]

@@prich0382 Toughness IS a full shield while it's full, so if you can spam regenerate it fast enough you can take basically no damage on top of blocking/pushing/dodging. I usually treat it as a "Play well or die" keystone.

[@prich0382]

@cameronnorris7315 I did mention that. But even with 99% toughness, you'll slowly take bleed though damage. Also again barrels and flamers exploding ignore Toughness amount

[@ExRosaPassione]

I find it very funny that we've gone from Martyrdom being based off missing HP, to being based off wounds, to now it would be better if it was based off missing HP again, but done as missing X amount or X% of HP. I think the changes you suggested would pretty perfectly hit the middle ground between the olden days of Zealots playing on 2hp for the damage buffs, and having to sacrifice everything to make Martyrdom usable.

[@ANDELE3025]

For the 19 min in, i disagree that damage increase should be even on martyrdom. When someone successfully finishes a mission (or is flexing play) with a martyrdom build that isnt ala ChocoBs "i technically run despite being under 1 stack average across mission total and under 3 in worst cases and even then typically just on a weapon with jank attack speed for clutch situations", you will notice their overkill damage is close to if not exceeding 50% on scoreboard. Compare that to the 16~ish typical to 25% at worst of normal builds when not chasing damage number padding and it becomes glaring obvious it doesnt need to have the damage amp. In general the entire niche of current buffs is just outdone by momentum. You get more EHP just from on cooldown/buff expiry spending 5-6 stacks with 1 of your 2 DR sources and the passive nodes from 2% toughness per stack compared to TDR, it gives attack speed about as much a much as martyrdom does with more in dodge heavy and/or opening scenarios (since in the typical situation it pops with 12-13 stacks not full 15 unless nothing but combat needs to be done) and the effective survivability increase is further improved with better dodges. Without THP just make martyrdom fully after tabletop schola progenium and support nature of mid tree while moving the risk play nodes to Momentum for the low hp deal (move dodge to current T regen side, give 2 nodes that are mutually exclusive with the 3 on dodge and thp regen that set you minimum stacks based on % Hp missing down to 75% missing for max 15 stacks, which also nicely fits with revenants cap of 25% hp restore and another that makes your weapon specials sacs 15(-1 per stack of momentum)% your hp (or even turns it into corruption to open up a unusual item synergy route), that hp loss counts as a enemy hit for Thy Wrath and the 20% regen node just to not have anti-synergy,, but gives it auto crit+weakspot damage giving non-crit weapons a crit trigger route (as the specials on knife, dueling, etc wouldnt be rewarded that much from it by comparison). That way the overlap of design is solved, you have methods of converting HP to clear time without encouraging getting hit, synch it with a node that has a talent point tax for safety AND it works well with how momentum already works with stacks+its dodge bonus whose benefits are visible at the high level of play while taking the risk of relying entirely on kills second wind and getting shroud cd down to replenish toughness. Meanwhile for the martyrdom package: In Zealots coherency, slots being taken up doesnt disable coherency for zealot + zealot takes 66% of allies damage taken and corruption applied to the zealots Toughness and/or HP instead (same resource as target, but DR of the zealot is applied to it too, so defensive double dip first from ally then you) down to last wound, this damage doesnt interrupt coherency, only unblocked attacks do. Every time zealot loses a wound % hp value (so e.g. 4 wound 200 hp it wound be 50 toughness while 7 it would be at 29 toughness lost) or more toughness in 3~4 seconds allies get bonus rending, every time zealot wound or more in hp allies get bonus impact and finesse/weakspot damage. Inversely, if it has not happened for lets say 8 seconds, the same buff is given to zealot for 16s (as the emperor is showing his grace that this isnt the battle in which they need to offer their flesh and blood for their allies for the imperium to stand victorious), both of it mirroring act of faith options from tabletop yee ago. Then you can have the side nodes of "you and allies in coh gain 3s movement speed bonus when you suppress enemies, when anyone in coh sets on fire or suppresses elite or special it also also refreshes 1 dodge for everyone with x cd" + "when you block a attack and whenever you take damage gives you % damage vs that type of enemy" vs "each wound missing and each party grim carried (if one of the carriers is you) gives everyone ammo, block and sprint efficiency" + "everyone gets TDR and ally revive speed and you get damage vs staggered foes based on wounds missing party grims carried (again if one of the carriers is you)". The damage increases here would actually be of use as the entire thing is support ortiented. At that point it would be good to also touch beacon to be uncapped, armor of contempt to per ally CD per zealot (each zealot tracks triggers for each ally on their buff bar), fix aka remove loaner (since fort in fellow is just better loaner and both arent good even if they would work 24/7) and likely nerf how mandatory the benefit of double dip on duelist is.

[@Bzuhl]

My proposal to make it FUN : losing a wound trigger a mini "until death" buff with the associated healing, more and more powerfull scaling on how much wounds you are missing. There is a CD, but the CD for losing your first wound will not prevent the node to activate on losing your second wound, etc. Scaled properly you still give up toughness but you get to be a self-healing berserker, you could get some additional nodes to trigger like a big CDR when losing a wound, stamina regen, push ennemies or make them bleed, etc.

[@Cardinalsqr]

I feel like martyrdom should proc fully at ~50% hp and some of the talents should “lock” your hp to a certain threshold, so if you invest in all the extra nodes it can always be active.

[@SirDenghis]

I like this idea but I think I would split the path in two after choosing martyrdom, one path gives you your fiery faith and maniac and the other path gives you toughness damage reduction and toughness regen but choosing one path locks out the other, gives the option for the guys who like the tanky builds (the guys is me ha)

[@be.a.7462]

I see your point on using hp as a factor vs wounds but that kinda just changes the problem into investing on health vs wounds as a factor and makes the need toughness still an issue…. I prob would rather keep it a wound base system but make it so martyrdom has additional benifits “like explosive resistance (maybe corruption resistance all together and same with fire making hazards not a threat to your build when low.” And they can add ontop to the other keystone to make them better so We can have both toughness reduction and speed, and attack speed as well as toughness gain for the other….. and change melee damage to melee power so with each iteration of being weak we can actually do more with our build as power is tied to both impact, damage, and cleave damage as a whole

[@Daskard]

Regarding crits: You get your CDR from crits by regularly using your ult, which is a guaranteed crit. With wide swings you'll get 30% from the bleeding enemies, which keeps Invocation of Death going until your ult is ready again. Martyrdom indeed is far from meta. It's just fun to make your ults much stronger. They will have to change it, to make it as consistent as other setups.

[@derpherp7432]

I build martyrdom with stealth and use the stealth to help keep me alive when until death goes off. Makes it very hard to die while keeping up that 50% extra damage. I'm getting 40+% crit chance most of the time with all the other perks which is enough to bring back stealth very quickly. It might not stack up direct dps, but its an interesting in situa utility mix that gave me a really high win rate.

[@z.w.7292]

Do you do this in QP lobbies? If so please stop.

[@derpherp7432]

@@z.w.7292 Why? I never die and typically have the highest scores in most categories. If you are so incompetent at the game that you can't do similarly then that sounds like a you problem.

[@Zombiesurviver1]

I feel like martyrdom should scale off of missing hp like you do but go off of percentage and not a flat value. One of the biggest drawbacks to the keystone is ot limits your curio options. So just get the bonus for every 10% max hp you are missing up to a cap of 7. So if you're at 30% hp or less then you're at full power. This means with just the 2 wounds node you will have the four wounds you need on difficulty 4+ to have full effect and still have your one full wound.

[@BearoBee]

I m a avid martyrdom player and I see the point of it, but I feel that there are some points that I feel need to be addressed. So Bleed for the emperor is now not that good since it works off wounds. If martyrdom works off health, then Bleed for the emperor is now far less useful, almost useless since you are not incentivised to build wounds thus making it so it only works at half health once rather than almost every hit. Faiths Fortitude is now very useless since it just gives two wounds. And the other option, marty's purpose has always been bad. So to get to martyrdom, you ether have to get two exra wound or cooldown when hit. Because you got to go through ether fortitude or purpose, some may just be turned off to the idea of martyrdom. Also I don't think the explode damage immunity. If you are low health enough to die to a explosion, you should die to it. Its not exclusive to just martyr but any character low health and just because the build relies on low health doesn't mean someone should get special treatment for it. It is frustrating to die to barrels and such, which I understand, but still. Though I feel like there is difference in opinion on what martyr should be.

[@jafsrob]

18:44 oh hey look its tanner

[@PillowOfEvil]

They'd need to rework how wounds work in that case because why would wound curios exist? If they wanted to keep wounds relevant for the build, they could make Faith's fortitude offer 5% crit or 7.5-8% TDR per missing wound instead of 2 wounds. So go ahead and add as many wound curios as you want. The alternative(that would also disregard wounds, but could be made more complicated to incorporate wounds) would be to make something along the lines of blocking increasing resistance to fire/explosion/pox flame damage but drains stamina fast. Or can't be knocked down by said elements while dodging/blocking while you got dodges/stamina.

[@sirskitariibush5570]

I miss playing Zealot in Vermintide 2, man. He worked so nice with THP, it was fun.

[@CaptainFalcon07]

I agree with the argument, but I will say when I run martyrdom even in auric I feel like a freight train, just gotta… not die

[@psython2160]

I tend to run 2 wounds and 1 toughness curious with 5% toughness perks. the build primarily benefits slow melee weapons like the eviscerator THammer, and heavy sword. Most of my builds have 150 base toughness which is plenty with such high TDR.

[@gamerdudes2642]

The buff provided by Mr E at 18:59 is a good one but one I see as not creative enough. if I was to provide a buff to MARTYRDOM, I would design it around the idea of enhancing not only yourself with the standard MARTYRDOM buffs, but also your allies survivability based on your lost health, with a massive temporary boon to allies if the MARTYRDOM user goes down. That way it is a net positive, you would reduce the negative effects that come from gambling your teams overall survivability by sacrifice your survivability to boost your allies survivability. Giving an effect or a buff to allies should you go down does promote reckless gameplay but should it be done correctly, getting downed should be less detrimental to the rest of your team. If this Idea is of interest to anyone, I will try to elaborate on the numbers and specifics.

[@Vynalith]

That'd be a really cool idea actually. It'd also synergize really well with that one psyker perk that nobody takes that activates when a team member goes down, and I'm all for seeing duo squads pull some crazy stuff off with something like that. Finally making the perk name actually make sense is a plus too.

[@gamerdudes2642]

@@Vynalith I'm not one for relying on such perks, but to see this dream scenario come to fruition would be a welcome surprise indeed.

[@6fangeredman]

If temp health was available to martyrdom would be huge

[@Newovar]

Switching out toughness damage reduction for full damage reduction might help martyrdom a lot. Hell, maybe even make it scale with corruption idk. What's the point of having toughness damage reduction if your build already requires low toughness AND low hp by default? Also explosions and barrel fire should not bleed through toughness to begin with. Seems like an oversight.

[@brandonbliss4490]

I’ve been waiting on this vid! Happy thanksgiving 🎉🍗

[@Cyberdemon-9001]

Tis a good video. One issue. So if I know fatshark from there behavior during vermintide and vermintide 2, this video will be seen. They will then view these changes with contempt and sneer at the thought of the plebs telling them what to do. This company has a history of making the wrong decisions, and sticking with it regardless of if it is the correct decision, solely based on negative feedback. Essentially we will have another year or so of martyrdom being trash.

[@danhill99]

Why not use the eviscerator/chain sword perk that gives +100% crit on special melee kill? It’s fairly painless to chainsaw one guy then mop another one up. It still doesn’t make martyrdom *good*, but it’s an easy way to get the CDR and seems ok for damage generally?

[@Skitkat101]

I like your martyrdom fix! Maybe a max stack cap of 7 or 8 to encourage players to still stay above no health at all?

[@coldfries8976]

Hey Mister E! So i just played my first few hours of Darktide on my PS5. I'm wondering if you have any advice on controller and general gameplay settings? My character just feels super clunky and inresponsive to control (playing Veteran if that matters). Performance isn't that great either, but i can deal with that if the game feels good to play at least. PS got no refunds soo.. i gotta stick it out. Otherwise i'd refund it and get it for PC. Thanks in advance!

[@MisterEtide]

I dont know what sort of settings are available on ps5 but i would recommend a bluetooth mouse and keyboard over controller. Darktide is still on this months humble bundle for like 11 bucks so if you have a pc you can get it there on the cheap

[@howlingbeast3x6]

Thanksgiving was over a month ago for me, but thanks for the wishes ;)

[@Grey.Minerva]

classic fatshark maneuver "you got it right the first time, so just go back to how it was last game and we are good" though iirc there was weirdness in vt2 as well, something like saying it used %hp to calculate damage but actually being flat hp with a hard cap

[@thedicktator6079]

15:45 Tanner jumpscare

[@tremolobanshee]

I love Martyrdom. Dump my HP at the start of the map for max stacks and go to town. I always out damage my other keystone builds with it and it frees up loads of healing for other players. Never had any issues staying at max stacks for most of the mission (up to and including Auric Maelstrom difficulty) and I love the buffs it gives. If you arent a good enough player to be able to keep your max stacks up at least 3/4ths of the map then yeah I would say it isnt worth it, and its not worth using it as a "safety net" playstyle either. Dump that HP and keep it low, then keeping smashing heretics. Favortite zealot keystone and it isnt even close. I will die on this hill

[@Freaktacular]

curios are still at 80% power like with weapon stats, i think 100% curios are 2 wounds.

[@bryce4085]

what would you recommend for an ideal T-hammer build if martyrdom isn't the play?

[@MisterEtide]

Momentum for the attack speed

[@Underground_Owl]

I know the idea of this series is to limit the changes to reasonable tweaks, but I honestly think it's not worth it with this one. Just toss it into the dumpster and start fresh. ...so what's next on the yapping block, marksmans focus?

[@dementedwallaby]

You make some good points. Maybe I should switch off Martyrdom builds for a while.

[@gamorka]

Whe Lindborg play soundpad?

[@thomasprice7642]

On vet smoke should make the team invisible

[@sabergoli3518]

happy thanksgiving

[@RAINLORDV2]

No way bro I just seen you in the Morningstar on dark tide I tried to join lol

[@MisterEtide]

Im REAL

[@RAINLORDV2]

@ the REALEST FAM

[@azariah_kyras]

Fatshark has always had a hard time with low health builds. The zealot career on vt2 to this day still has problems. And the fact martyrdom loses value the higher the difficulty proves fatshark learned nothing

[@AI_Ghostwriter]

Martyrdom would be based af if you were incentivised to actualy get grimoires.

[@CaioVale98]

I really think that martyrdom is a good way to learn the game. I mean, with a Lot of wounds, going down with martyrdom isn't as bad 'cause with multiple wounds you have some safety and can take more of a beating without actually dying

[@MisterEtide]

if you want to run curios that ake it so you can take a beating, run health. youll be able to take way more hits before going down. If you are using 5+ downs between health stations, something else is wrong. Eventually the wound curios have to go, so just dont ever play with them, they are hurting your chances of survival compared to health or toughness.

[@CaioVale98]

@MisterEtide Yes I know It now, but when I was learning the movement tech Martyrdom Build really helped me a Lot. I now understand How bad It is to go down in damnation or Auric content in general. But It really helped me a Lot. I kinda like it purely out of nostalgia I guess, it's useful but overall a massive trap

[@TehDroppedBass]

I’m not sure how to tell you you’re wrong or if I even can. Instead I’ll plug my ears and go “lalalalala I can’t hear you over this max TDR lalalalala The Emperor Protects!”

[@MALKAVIANsrle11]

My fix would be simpler and not much different from original, you get full benefit at 3 missing wounds (48 dmg,24 as and 39 tdr). With +2 wounds talent , you wouldn't need other wound curios.

[@MisterEtide]

That would be way too powerful and everyone would use it, youd only have to be at 50hp

[@MALKAVIANsrle11]

@MisterEtide maybe nerf bonuses then by 20-30%

[@MrsAikahime]

It feels like the very idea of a low health build doesn't function well in Darktide as a game compared to Vermintide 2.

[@ignatusrailslayer]

Pls, mrE, i can't watch MULTIPLE DTslop 30mins+ videos, i have a life. Even tanner's trick with X2 speed doesn't help, pls LESS YAPPIN i really wonna watch these vids

[@MisterEtide]

What’s the point in watching if you don’t want to listen to the yap?

[@ignatusrailslayer]

Yap overload, i am simply not ready...

[@Little_monde]

It feels like you're reaching for as many negatives with marty to prove your point instead of actually using it and reaching your opinions from there. So here's my essay comment on what points I don't agree with. 1. Stam and toughness curios are completely out with marty, you play at 5 stacks with +40% dmg, +20% attack speed, +32.5% tdr. Yes it's sad not having toughness curios, but those are the buffs and the costs. 2. Crit chance blessings aren't a waste and make sense to take even in blazing piety builds, crit chance stacks 30% with bp, 50% with shred or riposte, 85% with scourge, not a wasted blessing, it's actually good getting to 80%. So imo it's optimal to take crit blessing in marty and blazing piety, more so if taking stalwart so BP only gives 15% crit not 25%. 3. Yes you crit less with marty but you crit enough to have good cdr and tdr for two reasons -invocation of death was changed so you just need a crit every 6 seconds to get full benefits. -marty attack speed helps get crits through volume of attacks so almost full uptime on the cdr buff. -higher attack speed weapons like chainsword or tac axe even have almost full uptime on enduring faith's 4s tdr cooldown. 4. Marty is not as unsafe as you portray it. There are random bad situations that can take out all your hp but you should get good at avoiding those, and when they do happen you act like you die instantly. But until death is literally a thing. Every 2 minutes you can screw up and reset you hp. You don't need to get picked up by your team constantly or use med stations and "loose all of our martyrdom benefit". 5. Marty is incredibly synergistic with holy revenant and med stims (which you made a point of saying are bad??? like either full hp is bad or only getting only two wounds is bad make up your mind) You only ever want 2 wounds of hp and it's annoying when you have to take from health stations and then reset your hp down again with enemies or fire. 6. You say marty needs to give you something unique to make it worth the costs, but it already does. There isn't another way to get the same base dmg and attack speed buffs marty gets you. With crit blessing weapons (combax axe, tac axe, eviscerator and chainsword are my favorites) it's downright strong with similar cdr and tdr to other meta builds but with more raw melee dps and less toughness. The biggest reason i love marty is it makes less optimal weapons like the chainaxe reach brake points that take them from a chore to use to very fun and effective even in maelstrom. No marty isn't optimal, you don't have 190 toughness so you aren't nearly as survivable as a stalwart BP build, but compared to other builds it's fairly survivable with its 130 toughness due to 33% more tdr, and it's not simply a downgrade to other zealot builds. Also I'd like to address your proposed changes quickly; they don't fixing anything. You still need to take hp curios to get benefits and leave toughness on the table. You lose tdr so you take more chip dmg in melee, gross, unplayable. The one great idea here the FS NEEDS to implement is no direct dmg to hp for marty zealots. Another idea is cap marty stacks at 4 and increase all the buffs slightly so new 4 stacks = old 5 stacks. Now you only need one or two wound curios.

[@TannerLindberg]

"2. Crit chance blessings aren't a waste and make sense to take even in blazing piety builds, crit chance stacks 30% with bp, 50% with shred or riposte, 85% with scourge, not a wasted blessing, it's actually good getting to 80%. So imo it's optimal to take crit blessing in marty and blazing piety, more so if taking stalwart so BP only gives 15% crit not 25%." this is objectivity mathematically provably false btw. if you have to chose between criting 6 out of 10 attacks for 1k damage or critting 8 out of ten attacks for 500 damage going the 1k route but critting less is objectively more damage over all ( since it takes fewer hits to get the same numbers and your none crits hit harder as well). the 60 to 80% range is where increasing the base damage for the crit to multiply is more valuable then getting an extra crit the opportunity cost of crit chance vs raising damage so the crits are harder starts scaling against crit chance in the upper 70% and is a grey zone in the 60% range once you get into the 80% range though base damage basically always wins this is also true for just all video games in general between the opportunity cost of critting more and making the crits you have better then the crits you possibly gain. just stacking crit chance is usually a bad idea and having a balanced route of crit chance base damage and crit effectiveness multipliers and attack speed ends up being the highest dps instead of highly investing in one or two stats at the expense of the other 2

[@MisterEtide]

I think to condense all of my complaints into a single point, here is my final argument: Marty requires a LOT of sacrifice up to and including playing in a precarious, suboptimal way. You are also not guaranteed the benefits it promises, and the benefits as it currently stands are less powerful than the keystone that has ONLY upsides and ALWAYS gives you its full benefit. A piety build will do more damage than marty, while being safer.

[@Little_monde]

@TannerLinberg fair point, tell me if you think I'm wrong though, doesn't that put marty crit builds somewhere in that optimal crit chance to base damage buff land? Blessing gets you to 25% crit chance, scourge gets you to 55%, and you get 40% flat dmg from marty. You're slightly more towards the base dmg side of things than BP w/dmg blessing, and you have the attack speed buff. How is BP coming out better in damage in this equation? Also you get your dmg buff from neutral, no headtaker or thrust to charge up.

[@crazylasagna3576]

This video is clearly from the perspective of a "meta player." However, consider that not every player nor ability/keystone is intended for meta players. Martyrdom allows players to be bad and still do fine and that's a good thing. Yes, they will never reach the heights they could by running "the meta." However, if they don't want to reach those heights, then what's the problem?

[@perteks7639]

Such strange takes, zealot in darktide actually works better than vermintide its high stakes high rewards. But if you buff rewards too much you take out high stakes. Its fun build that rewards good skill and its different than just some passive that you dont need to do anything to get benefits. Zealot in vermintide have no high stakes with how insanely easy is to get max thp, there is little to no high stakes there, ironically if you have merc markus you dont have even stakes in between fights. Plus you completly ignored that martydrom is cheap to max out, wounds curios are easiest to get

[@TannerLindberg]

this is such a strange comment considering it isnt true and zealot was a mid variation of saltz

[@perteks7639]

@@TannerLindberg all saltz class are very strong, just zealot is most braindead

[@arn1345]

Lotta cope for saying Martyrdom is good. Lmao, it's not. Good for anything below Maelstrom I guess.

[@wizard_4194]

thing is, most people would bring up the "if you're skilled enough it doesnt matter" argument. And its true, but most skilled players wont even pick this fucking keystone in the first place lmao

[@Vynalith]

I mean yeah the other two keystones are better at a high level since they don't have the same risk, but not everyone prefers or even can play at those high levels. Hell, I prefer playing on heresy and damnation with weaker builds/characters as long as they're still fun. I'd rather swallow a live shredder grenade than play meta build on Maelstrom cause I just don't find trying that hard in a game to be fun.

[@wizard_4194]

@@Vynalith if they're good at higher levels, they're good on lower diffs aswell. Dont get me wrong tho, you could TOTALLY run martyrdom on auric maelstrom and carry if you're skilled enough. Its all up to personal skill, its a huge flex also to carry your team with 23 hp or less lol. But you could easily just turn your brain off and use shroudfield and get better results. Personal preference.

[@Vynalith]

@@wizard_4194 In theory yes they should be equal on all levels, but that's not how game balancing tends to play out. Looking at games like TF2, the last major update had a ton of changes pushed by the competitive community, but the casual community was pissed about half of the changes. Some weapons, namely the righteous bison, were changed so much that you can't even use them as a joke weapon. I like where martyrdom is right now as an off-meta but still fun build. I wouldn't say no to buffs, but I'm a lot more apprehensive about changing it. Even the big change suggested here about making it based on HP% still wouldn't fix it (still no toughness for example) and would even render some of the of perks useless with martyrdom, even within its own branch of the skill tree. As much as I would like to be optimistic, I can't help but feel like any potential change FS implements would miss the mark.

[@TannerLindberg]

martydom is legitimately good when everything is working it just has a small cushion and isnt THAT much better then blazing piety the biggest issue i have with it is like when a teamate pushes a burster into you or something dumb its the only keystone where teamates can greif you and its sucha pain to antiscience it if you heal gotta re fire your self etc