SLIP TEST - Saab 9-3X XWD vs Volvo XC70 AWD -

[@Alexdj44]

Спасибо за тест. Владельцам автомобилей отдельная благодарность👍

[@Bai_L]

I loved SAAB's XWD (Haldex with eLSD). But nowadays such a SAAB in good condition is not easy to find. Luckily this system got carried over onto Gen1 OPEL Insignia.

[@TheKeyess]

Interesting that the Saab would fail to send power to the rear, My guess is that the haldex needs its oil cleaned out and filter replaced. I've seen them go out due to lack of maintenance more than once. Usually it'll begin with a failure to sufficiently lock up or a jerking feeling when it does lock up, and will end with a complete inability to lock up followed by a burnt pump and or ecu.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

During diagonal test you can see that it is able to lock both clutch-packs.

[@TheKeyess]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Sure it locks up, but it doesn't seem to be doing it reliably, and I bet it isn't doing it smoothly. And I'm not saying this just because I'm a Saab guy and a Saab performed less than perfectly, I know you get enough of that from the Audi guys 😉 I'm just sharing my experience on this system, and in my experience lack of maintenance (most car manufacturers consider the haldex a "for life" unit, no regular maintenace) will cause contaminated oil and clutch pack particles to clog the filter and pump, leading to uneven or insufficient clutch pack actuation. I've personally seen this happen many many many times, if you catch it early enough a oil flush/filter change will in most cases save or revive the unit.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@TheKeyess I regret we didn't have the OBD interface during the test to see the live data from both clutch-packs...

[@bt5252]

That result for the Saab is the most bizarre I’ve ever seen. The one wheel not on rollers is spinning away?!? The other wheels must have been locked up by the ABS. Then zero power to the rear wheels? It all started so well and then went downhill.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

It was locking rear diff... From time to time.

[@ImmortalHeretic]

A może by tak sprawdzić na rolkach działanie szpery w autach sportowych napędzanych na jedną oś? Na przykład Mazda mx-5 Nb z otwartym dyfrem vs szpera Fuji vs szpera Torsen albo Alfa Gt z otwartym dyfrem kontra ze szperą Q2

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Jeśli tylko znajdą się ochotnicy... 🙂

[@pycus13]

This test was ridiculous. The saab stopped engaging its 4x4 drive and the volvo kept digging itself out of the rollers not by the traction of the wheel on the ground, but as it had wheels so big, the tire thread grabbed the metal edge of the roller bracket which it used to get out of the rollers.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Tyres cannot touch the frame: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qGTWiXycrtN6otU

[@aidaaliten8817]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers are you sure about that?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@aidaaliten8817 Did you watch the video linked in previous comment?

[@aliraza-ju4oq]

😂😂😂

[@aliraza-ju4oq]

VOLVO is the best. 😉👍💪

[@karlik73]

Сааб и Субару!

[@alenbabanovic4333]

Can you test volvo xc70 3. gen (2008 - 2016)

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

We wish but so far we couldn't find one...

[@rencikz]

First time saw burnout!

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

I think Focus RS did it to :)

[@Vlasnijdosvid]

Инсигния это, пока что, лучшее что я видел...

[@Softroader]

Wow. Disappointed by the Saab... I thought that with the torque vectoring differential, it would be very efficient...

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

It would be if software wasn't getting crazy...

[@martinsvensson6884]

Seems to be working on the rear wheels at least.... Its the Haldex in the center that doesnt lock enough..

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@martinsvensson6884 It depends which attempt you look at. Sometimes it looks like not locking center haldex and sometimes it looks like not locking rear diff haldex.

[@martinsvensson6884]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Is rear diff a Haldex also? Just read LSD in the video. But in all videos the rear seem to lock. Or at least lock enough to get out. Just a little slow maybe in 2 clips.. But since its, what I'm guessing, a variable LSD and not an actual diff lock that's pretty much what you'd expect..

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@martinsvensson6884 XWD is one unit which includes two clutch-packs. I don't know if they are the same size but they are both haldex. Rear one is strong enough to completely lock itself, that actually can be heard a few times (sounds like a metal click). It shouldn't be like that, it should work smoother (like in Insignia A which has exactly the same unit).

[@marcoalexander6214]

The issue here is likely the transmission differences. Compare two automatics please.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

The issue are awd systems.

[@gekko4u2]

some Saab's had Elsd and some dont , was this with Elsd ?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

It was with lsd.

[@viktorjjakobsson9710]

There is something that isn’t right with the XWD system on the Saab. Thought all test done on snow/mud/gravel it outperforms the one in same era Volvos. And that specific haldex system in the Volvo is mostly known for breaking down.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Both clutch-packs are working. The problem is probably in software which was getting confused.

[@viktorjjakobsson9710]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers The XWD system can appear to be fine but if it haven’t been serviced correctly it won’t work as intended. This test deviates from any other test that’s been done with Saabs XWD. Sincerely, a Swede with plenty of experience form both Saab and Volvo.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@viktorjjakobsson9710 If we find any other XWD we will test it for sure to compare with this one.

[@lacike767]

Which is better, open differential or LSD diff. ?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

It depends on your needs.

[@lacike767]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers It is therefore not possible to say unequivocally which diff. is better...?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@lacike767Nope. I'm sure that majority of people would say LSD but for standard day to day driving in normal conditions it is useless and ineffective. Sport driving is a different topic but McLaren P1 is using open diff so...

[@Eugen-E]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Why is it ineffective and useless? In winter it would be nice.

[@lacike767]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers And what about a dirt road, a forest road ... hunting and so on ...? But not off-road driving :))

[@jomamapusi2551]

Toyota highlander hybrid roller please

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

If I only find one...

[@johhponomarev4756]

Поставь передние колеса Вольво прямо. И она никуда не поедет

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hWLQdqSvip5-etE

[@tolis9871]

You say in comments that it is XWD with eLSD. I cannot understand how it is possible a Haldex Generation IV to be beaten by Haldex Generation III . Haldex Generation IV, although developed by Haldex with Saab and sold exclusively by Saab for thee years, was later also used by other carmakers. They were all fooled?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

It is not the matter of haldex generation but software which controls it.

[@tolis9871]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers But Haldex IV was developed for Saab with Saab! And this XC70 has much older software etc. It would be very interesting if you made a video with next generation XC70 that has the same Haldex as Saab 9-3X. Even more interesting to show Saab 9-4X vs Saab 9-3X or vs the equivalent Volvo/Haldex. Saab also claimed that the XWD system works ideally in real life conditions not in tests. The problem however in off-road conditions is the ground clearance which is too small.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@tolis9871 The fact that Volvo has older software doesn't mean that it's worse. Haldex cooperates with traction control and it is well tuned. In Saab that's much more complicated cause two clutch-packs must cooperate + traction control. That's a lot of algorithms and system is getting confused. The same system was used in Insignia and it works very different there due to different software. Edit: there is no Volvo with the same awd system system as XWD.

[@hasanturkoglu5144]

This car is LSD XWD, only Turbo X's were produced as eLSD XWD.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

​@@hasanturkoglu5144 Test clearly shows there's electronically controlled rear diff, locking when computer decides to do it.

[@nikk782]

I think Saab is tired)

[@iran1896]

Кажись, тут вольво поинтереснее, чем сааб.

[@eegperformance9212]

Volvo better

[@seebmamb0]

I'm not surrprised wy saab not existing anymore :)

[@tkele2269]

Saab's status is RIP, but likely not because of bad 4x4 technologies... This individual tested has clearly some technical issue with haldex unit communication error (haldex unit itself, ECM wiring or ABS sensor issue). There shouldn't exist any error messages during this test. I have nearly similar XWD so I have some experience how this car behaves when it's faulty and when it has correct operation. Saab (car manufacturing) was essential part of industrial history of Sweden (and also somewhat Finland) . Saab was also heavily linked to history of Haldex clutch development. "Sigvard "Sigge “Johansson, Saab-Sigge, invented an electronic limited-slip differential in 80's to get more traction for FWD rally car. First versions of this clutch were represented on 80's with Saab 99 rally car. Then next prototype was Saab 9000 4x4 (1987). After all Saab was too small company to implement Sigge's invention. (Later owner, GM, was reluctant for investing on 4x4). Patent was sold 1988 to Haldex company (founded in 1887). Later trough many obstacles and development stages Haldex was tested on early 90's with MB, Opel (with bad success). Then came Ipumatic (1996) and first VAG 4motion versions (Haldex 1-2), Volvo AWD etc. They were already semi-success. Haldex 3 was already decent, version 4 clearly faster/sensitive system. Saab TurboX ym 2008 was first car that Haldex IV was implemented with electronic limited differential (eLSD). Btw, This technology has many similarities with Audi's "Quattro Ultra" (2017-->).

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@tkele22 As I mentioned in other comment - ABS errors means that system is working, not that it is faulty. It happened to few cars during three roller tests, software was getting confused and that's why it showed errors. In all cases they were automatically deleted after short drive when all wheels were spinning at similar speed. When it comes to Ultra - the only similar thing is that it is fwd based. The rest is completely different, I explained the details in one of my videos. Edit: I just remembered - Insignia A which uses the same system as Saab also showed ABS errors during the test.

[@seebmamb0]

@@tkele2269 RU serious? saab died cause of everything!!!i it was good car but not enought to stay alive.. DACIA is better cause is alive..

[@tkele2269]

@@seebmamb0 True, also Lada is alive and kicking ;)

[@tkele2269]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers I believe that this individual works ok so that there is not active error codes. But as one other commentor mentioned 7 months before (video that compares Audi A4 Quattro vs Saab 9-3x) "clutch pack to engage rear wheels is going". There is multiple reasons why 12 years used Haldex may not work like a new one. But as mentioned: I don't have any proof because I haven't seen any other roller testing for Saab XWD. But I some reasons to why I'm a bit suspicious: I have been driving with Saab XWD that had issues and then replaced with new Haldex + LSD differential module. There is quite a difference with new and old woren Haldex unit+LSD differential. I'm not claiming that Saab's own version of haldex4 would be any better than others haldex4 solutions but it's not weaker either. Totally same mechanical solution is used in many other GM cars like Opel and Buick. Difference is just with Saab's own software. Regarding comparing eLSD to Quattro Ultra I admit that I said too much. It has very different technical backround and solution (e.g. cardan shaft can be totally released unlike with Haldex based system's etc.) But eLSD's "idea of ability of shifting torque between single rear wheels individually" has still similarities with Audi Ultra. This technology was rather new back in 2008( Japanese had some early solutions too though). Regarding this topic Audi's Torsen had some technical limitations which Quattro Ultra kind of fixed 2017.