Smash Ultimate Patch Report - 11.0.0 - Some Top Tier Hitbox Nerfs

[@tydresen3905]

I’m looking forward to figuring out what the heck photon edge’s hit boxes look like.

[@eukarya_]

And what the heck does Mythra's hurtbox look like during the move.

[@tydresen3905]

@@eukarya_ yeah I looked at it in frame by frame and she appears in two places at the same time. I’m not sure if she has two active hurtboxes or if one disappears at a certain point. Hopefully our French god has answers for us.

[@eukarya_]

@@tydresen3905 Yeah, it's so strange, sometimes the attack seems to randomly miss for some reason and hitting her while on the move is pretty inconsistent, at least for me. Btw, Rekzius is French? I didn't know that, so he's a Europal.

[@angeldude101]

One channel showed off their hitboxes with a mod, and Photon Edge is as stupid as it looks. Such is what happens when you try to implement a move that involves a character moving at the speed of light. To be clear, in the base game, Photon Edge was tied for the highest AOE radius of any Art and had twice as many hits as its Smash incarnation.

[@tydresen3905]

@@eukarya_ yeah it’s a pretty weird move. Also I’m 90% sure he said he’s from Quebec in a recent video. That might have been someone else though.

[@grfrjiglstan]

They gave Little Mac one measly buff just to keep his hopes up. It's quite cruel, really.

[@grotto185]

He should receive nerfs first, then some buffs

[@ethanherron6221]

@@grotto185 nerfs? This a meme or something? What nerfs are needed before buffs?

[@Mattadork]

@@ethanherron6221 make his tilt attacks better at comboing, specifically up tilt, and give them all bigger hitboxes as well as slightly reduce endlag, reduce his super armor frames to make it so his smash attacks aren't encouraging toxic gameplay, and unfortunately thats about all the changes you can make to help mac overall, since nintendo doesn't want him to have aerials that work well, or a better recovery

[@Mattadork]

OH i almost forgot sorry, 1 more buff they could do is basically combine his side b from smash 4 with this one, make it so he gets it back if he is hit, but keep it so it doesn't put him in free fall

[@Mattadork]

@@ethanherron6221 but yeah i think his smash attacks need nerfs, super armor should have several weaknesses tied behind it, while little mac smash attacks are NOT safe on shield, they have very little lag for smash attacks, and the super armor is through a good portion of the move, dk a character that has 3 moves with super armor, the frames of the super armor usually don't last that long, on top of every move(except giant punch) being incredibly laggy on top of it, to where you can punish it with practically any f smash in the game, on top of the moves being slow(except giant punch) usually there are conditions for super armor, but it feels like nintendo just didn't know how to make little mac a good character when they decided on him being a "ground fighter" so they just put super armor on smash attacks and called it a day

[@ASA-ux7cg]

Pretty solid update with more consistency in every character and that one Little Mac buff

[@ager6823]

There’s always that one Little Mac change in every patch.

[@paper-boat4326]

It never does shit, but at least it’s something

[@pxnchx93]

What they should do with Mac is allow him to use side b offstage multiple times, I know he's supposed to have bad recovery but that is ridiculous.

[@dieblauebedrohung]

it's not even a buff, it's just fixing something that broke in a past patch

[@thatoneguy5085]

I know this wasn’t part of the patches, But I think that something changed with buster wolf because people can’t shield it when I do jab 1 -> 2 buster wolf

[@flamethefurry3516]

As a seph secondary myself, I can say that down b not hitting properly was indeed a problem. It was annoying to hit a counter that should have killed them but it just ends up janking out.

[@animeloverhaven]

Hopefully it works better now

[@omni9387]

Have you also had the problem of it barely working? Like I swear whenever the counter should activate it never does for me

[@starmantheta2028]

@@omni9387 The counter hit box doesn't last the entire Shield animation. There's a slight window between the counter being active and the Projectile coming out where you can hit him.

[@omni9387]

@@starmantheta2028 i know that. Even at the start of the move there's a blind spot where the hit detection isn't there

[@flamethefurry3516]

@@animeloverhaven it does, it really does

[@abokoblin2156]

9:25 homie you said it twice lol homie you said it twice lol

[@Rekzius]

It happens sometimes It happens sometimes

[@abokoblin2156]

@@Rekzius I appreciate that I appreciate that

[@Leet-iz2fz]

rip lmao rip lmao

[@zodycoder]

lol lol

[@justicicle9673]

Wow wow

[@PrettyKoolCrocodile]

Solid patch, compared to the previous ones we got. Falcon/Ganon got a change people wanted for years, Palu's notorious grab is more balanced, Forward Air has the exact same landing lag as King K. Rool's NAir (frame 9), Dash Attack more laggy, one of Wario's main combo tools gutted hard, most likely making airdodge catching harder and making Waft lose to more options and minor Joker nerfs. A step in the right direction for balancing the game, I hope patches stay like this but they forgot one thing, no Pikachu nerfs.

[@ddraven3180]

And to buff useless characters in meaningfull ways

[@samthebagman4643]

Game Freak is holding Sakurai hostage in his house everytime there is a new update so he doesnt nerf pikachu I swear

[@nesswednesday2976]

@@ddraven3180 They did that in 8.0, but I do agree that it's unfortunate there weren't any buffs that lead to meta changes.

[@Creepo_J]

This patch was pretty great But no pikachu

[@tbc1880]

Or... buff everyone to be like the top tiers...

[@eonamiella2124]

Still can't believe Pikachu STILL hasn't been nerfed. All his competition is getting nerfed which makes him better...

[@DJinThaMatrix]

Maybe they’re edging us, and the last patch is gonna be only pikachu nerfs like in smash 4 the last patch was only bayo nerfs

[@nesswednesday2976]

Pika might not get nerfed unless enough top players play him. Remember, the only Pikachu player that was in the PGR pre-covid was ESAM. Japan also sees him as a "high tier," and he's almost nonexistent in their competitive scene.

[@oneheckofabanana2016]

@@DJinThaMatrix SSBU Pikachu is not nearly as good as SSB4 Bayo was. Even after the nerfs SSB4 Bayo is still insanely good and by far the best character in Smash 4. She's pay2win until the end.

[@ShinyKelp]

Tbh outside of pancaking and maybe tjlolts the character doesn't really warrant any nerfs. And it's not like he's dominating the meta by any means, just that he's considered to have the best matchup spread.

[@OldManHan]

As a Sephiroth main, that down special buff is actually super huge. People fell out of it constantly when it was weaker.

[@curtis4278]

Meanwhile shulk mains still have to cry about how bad Vision is

[@OldManHan]

@@curtis4278 Maybe he traded Vision for Monado Arts

[@qwormuli77]

Another point is that you cannot infinitely cheese some of the combo fighters from the ledge due to the nonexistent launch. It still puts them at a tough spot to recover, as it should, but is way less frustrating and cheap. Partly a nerf tp Seph in that way, but IMHO a good one.

[@OldManHan]

@@qwormuli77 Yeah, that's both pretty BS and unintended, so a good change it is, on both fronts!

[@chrispo7610]

4:46 joker used to be able to walk into gunner and have fsmash whiff 😐

[@Super_Smash_Dude]

Really!? Nice to see they buffed Sans.

[@thatguywhocomments5534]

@@Super_Smash_Dude it’s no longer mii gunner it’s now sans

[@Super_Smash_Dude]

@@thatguywhocomments5534 Agreed! They removed Mii Gunner a long time ago.

[@namenamename390]

Buffing byleth's down smash and down air by giving it more knockback is kinda like doing the same to warlock punch

[@Creepo_J]

It's like putting an extra rocket booster on a rocket

[@ivrydice0954]

WP isn't nearly has useful as those TBH.

[@themusicman2800]

At least we got a few quality of life buffs... Sorta. The team probably thought that instead of increasing the speed at which her down-smash comes out to make it be worth throwing for what it gets you was too risky, so they decided to give her more bang for her buck, but keeping it at the same speed so it seemed like a more useful option when in actuality the fact it isn't used much is because it's SLOW, and no matter what it gets you, if your opponent doesn't shield or does anything to avoid it, you will be punished HARD. GIVE US FAST BYLETH DOWN SMASH WITH A BIT OF KNOCKBACK AND DAMAGE REDUCTION YOU COWARDS

[@nesswednesday2976]

3:29 There was another infinite discovered a year ago that works on nine characters. This nerf was to remove that exact combo

[@115zombies935]

That Little Mac buff is just there so they can say they technically buffed him lol

[@goizord]

this is a good format, means you can make quick easy sense of patchnotes and i'd be fine with you doing more of these when patches come out

[@RaheemRollair]

Watching the patch note review from Beefy Smash Doods was one satisfaction. Watching the review from Rekzius is another.

[@astr.e]

Byleth got the best buff, he can damage a shield really easily and now he got a second shield break move. You can damage a shield with the Side B tipper with more chance to not get punish or just an arrow, if you Down Air the shield after this you should break it so : More shield pressure, more shield break possibility, more punish game, better reward with down smash and trump. He is really good now. Sorry for the difficulty I have to speak english x) A Byleth main.

[@derpybreads2212]

A SECOND shield break move? Doesn't he already have three? Down b, down smash, failnaught, and the newest addition of down air.

[@astr.e]

@@derpybreads2212 Yeah Down B I forgot about this x) ty

[@Brandon0294]

Finally byleth got a buff!!! If only he/ she was quicker

[@ang1217sr]

The Sephiroth change really does help. When standing on the edge of the stage and countering recoveries that don’t snap to ledge and go above it, before, it didn’t hit fully and would only hit a few times and not actually knockback. But now it actually knocks away, making it way better for edge guarding a good chunk of recoveries. Like, as if he needed a buff to edge guarding lol but still very nice change

[@halodragonmaster]

Finally, Gannondorf and the Captain wont get rockcrocked.

[@tosterg6590]

I think the biggest change was the up b from falcon/Ganondorf now having less lag, that move was so dumb to land because you got punished for landing it, and thanks to the horrid end lag you got away from the stage each time you landed it, the fact that that no ñonger happens is awesome and a change I wanted for a long time

[@animeloverhaven]

As a little Mac main I wish he got more buffs especially to grabs,up b and side b range.

[@animeloverhaven]

@@ChosenInterval yea cause he such a big emphasis on ground combat but has horrible grabs.

[@4xzx4]

His up-b can't scoop up people from the ground, like Wario's up-b does, meaning that he loses a very valuable oos option. They should fix this pronto, and also make his side-b get refreshed when he is hit, like in Smash 4.

[@parzival-bo]

Honestly, I'd be happy with getting his old Down Tilt back.

[@RTDelete]

I have a good feeling about this patch

[@falconiday6130]

I clicked like the moment I heard that Eldigan the lionheart music in the opening. Great video as always.

[@RedSky695]

Waft now is basically KO punch because it's frame 12. At that lag, you can be easily be hit out of it before the move is actived. A lot of moves come out before frame 13 so RIP

[@philjoseph6748]

I enjoyed your unscripted video format. It was a bit different (obviously) but it showed a new, more personal perspective of you. Although I prefer the scripted content, it wouldn't hurt to do it every once in a while for an update video, patch notes, or something along those lines.

[@blankblank6214]

Neat choice for the background music being from geneology of the Holy war

[@jankounchained4211]

Why the hell do they keep buffing little Mac 1 move at a time and it’s always barley noticeable lmao

[@enbnuuy]

genealogy is a nice choice

[@Faskosu]

Thank you very much, Mr Hitbox-whisperer, I'll sub and wait

[@MeesterTweester]

Falcon/Ganon's up B got mostly fixed after 20 years

[@christopherr8441]

Love the format! I want to see more of these kinds of videos!

[@Novastars8877]

I think you did good reporting all the changes with this format! No rambling, straight to the point and your great humor and jokes are still present.

[@lampsonmcstand6150]

You missed a shadow change that happened to duck hunt where a tech that required 3 frame perfect inputs was removed

[@NoobyNoon]

I actually think the Byleth one might be huge. With the little testing I did, it’s WAY easier to combo up-b into a TON of kill options. Especially with platforms around!

[@dolphun4425]

I really like how you have Genealogy music in the background of this vid.

[@epicsause21]

9:25 oof you forgot to cut that part

[@lagspike7763]

YOOOOP GENEALOGY MUSIC A MAN OF CULTURE

[@lightbrand_]

YOOOOOOOOOOOO the FE4 music at the beginning! a man of culture I see

[@nintentwins1867]

Mac main here. Moment I read it I knew they just reverted the shadow nerf. However Mac has two, MUCH more impactful shadow nerfs that still remain. Those being fair comes out slower and up tilt got two more frames of endlag. That latter one is why Mac up tilt is -3 on hit, making it a poor combo tool vs Yoshi, Zelda, Yink, GnW, etc.

[@deandrewilliams6041]

how do you know this? is this new from the last patch or?

[@RisdonX]

9:25 That moment when you lose your entire train of thought and repeate something you already said. Lol.

[@ausdorian3252]

Wtf Palutena's invisible 21 finger hit

[@Triforce_of_Doom]

as a Joker main, I totally get them adding more endlag to Tetrakarn/Makarakarn. That shit was REALLY spammable at times. The question is... how many frames got added to the endlag? That is one thing I don't know.

[@Triforce_of_Doom]

@@machinegunpiss774 okay yeah that's really not a lot

[@warionumbahone7642]

Look, as long as they don’t remove the second hit on Wario’s n-air or nerf u-air, then Wario’s combo game isn’t ruined.

[@cesarmoreno4483]

Do you think Wario is bad now¿?

[@TheRedStinger82]

I'm a Wario main. If that ever gets removed from the game, it would basically make him suck

[@SunbrokenHunter]

What they really needed to fix was Mii Brawler's forward air, but okay

[@DJinThaMatrix]

Deadass, I can barely land both hits on Dracula

[@torchilicho]

Not sure D3 needed buffs ESPECIALLY for his already most spammable move. Byleth also got a dumb buff, but that said i’m pretty neutral or happy about the rest of the buffs.

[@pxnchx93]

Mate you should do a video where you list the changes you feel would make a difference for the best Buffs and nerfs on each of the characters or at least the most needed ones

[@goGothitaLOL]

good idea

[@aqualacerta3961]

pikachu not getting nerfed once again, and weirdly enough people aren't as vocal about him compared to the other top tiers

[@lurking29]

funny enough, the Byleth buffs were incredible for the most part, up b and side b mainly

[@xenshe4448]

I just wish they add more knock back on side b too lol

[@christiandiez6255]

This channel is so underrated

[@StarmenRock]

hope they fix every single multi hit move with jank. to this day i still cant hit every single hit of ness's up air properly, i end up dragging people down instead of killing every single time.

[@suicune3776]

Soon the patch will arrive, Ridley will be a super fast, long ranged beast that counters all of Sonic's camping playstyles, King K. rool will have a defensive air game capable of rivaling air based beasts like Palutena and Puff, Ganondorf will have a very precise and technical combo game with tons of reward, and Incineroar will be a scary powerhouse with a strong advantage and disadvantage capable of dealing with the likes of Game and Watch. And little mac will get nerfed.

[@PrettyKoolCrocodile]

Minus the Little Mac part, he needs buffs, but I agree with what you said about K. Rool

[@iantaakalla8180]

Little Mac will be buffed when Smash Bros is dead.

[@eukarya_]

I have the feeling that they're trying to push Byleth as a shield breaker. The buff to dair knockback may be for the opponent to have more on an incentive to shield to avoid an early KO meanwhile the buff to shield damage is for the move to leave the shield devastated. The buffs to side B may be for making the move safer in shields in general so you use it more with the hope that it delivers the final blow to the shield. And finally the buff to down-smash is for it to be a more devastating shield-break punishment.

[@Dani-fl7hp]

REKZIUS PLAYING DISTURBANCE IN AUGUSTRIA IN THE VIDEO LETS GOOO A FELLOW BASED FE4 FAN

[@DiegoG2004]

"Unnerfs" Like my boy Pichu! The combo moves and recovery tools are back to their vanilla self damage!

[@secretshadow9515]

Great now all we need is F-tilt power back, and he becomes a god again

[@DiegoG2004]

@@secretshadow9515 Yes

[@Creepo_J]

Smash 2077: Ah yes, all mid tiers and low tiers now rival equally against pikachu

[@MayoMopper]

Wii fit side B shadow Buff hype!

[@tinyt.w.i.m7291]

I think the ZSS nerfs were justice. No more nair’ing on my shield without spacing it and still being able to jab before My move comes out. Nair into down special at ledge was frustrating. ZSS will still be a great character. I don’t hate her, it just yall was getting away with too much. You can still randomly throw out side special at kill percent and profit. You can still fair oos and profit. Still down special to negate ledge and landing pressure. You also still have your air and ground speed. With all of your tools remaining, you’ll be fine. Don’t even get me started on Palu nerfs. Bro, this patch was 👌

[@nick1wasd]

My friend is a Shephi main, and that counter buff is annoying. If it doesn't get proced, you could SDI out like it was a Bayo combo and live until ~150% super easy, now that's gonna be harder. Also those Byleth buffs to up-b are good, because now there are certain moves that can be punished that were just free before.

[@Kragglover2003]

The lucas counterplay is even safer against palu now. I can ftilt palu without getting grabbed. This matchup was already even tho so this just makes it fair

[@pyropipe]

make something about sonic's gigantic fist

[@JonYaBoii]

I love the part where he says "The Pyra/Mythra hitbox video is probably gonna take a little bit more effort" I thought I accidently rewinded 5 seconds at first

[@mr.tatortot6469]

And pikachu is now undoubtedly the best character

[@jacksterj.9588]

Honestly the falcon and ganon buff to up B are propably the most significant buff of this patch. It pretty much removes tech check punishes

[@TheNegationist]

This video basically told me which top tiers rekzius hates the most with his language lol

[@leone7247]

rip palutena

[@doorto6152]

I honestly wouldn’t have been able to tell the difference if this was scripted

[@antant6217]

will duck hunt get consistency fixes

[@freddiesimmons1394]

Do you think low tiers have good winrates online? That would explain why ganon and little mac get so little

[@velvetbutterfly]

Little Mac was revealed to have, by far, the lowest win rate of all characters

[@freddiesimmons1394]

@@velvetbutterfly ooooo where?

[@velvetbutterfly]

Freddie Simmons I think it was an interview a couple years ago. You would be able to find it just as easily as I can

[@BBB-pe3ip]

Little Mac and Ganon have above average win ratios online (51.75% and 52.23% respectively). Both characters are buffed by input lag.

[@freddiesimmons1394]

@@BBB-pe3ip honestly I assume they are buffed by the fact that the average player sucks at exploiting weaknesses

[@allseeingghost8056]

What are the Byleth buff he needed?

[@presion5628]

I´ll just say the falcon buff is so good, now you have to think to edgeguard him instead of rock ckrocking

[@amorphousprimordia]

I expect Pyra's f-smash to be nerfed next patch. It kills the entire cast at 60 uncharged

[@DepressedBulldogProductions]

Why would they nerf Wario, but not Pikachu?!

[@brain_tonic]

In Japan there are way more top level Warriors than Pikas. The devs are in Japan so if you wanna know what characters are likely to get buffed and nerfed, keep an eye on what characters are succeeding or failing in Japan.

[@DepressedBulldogProductions]

@@brain_tonic So that's why Duck Hunt never gets buffed.

[@brain_tonic]

@@DepressedBulldogProductions Yeah pretty much. Same concept for which characters get added, if they prioritized western polls we probably would have gotten Master Chief at one point.

[@lakaillax69]

The FE4 music man 👌

[@RobzdaBlade]

Thought I'd heard some real patch notes. How does nobody not know the numbers for hitstun and knockback changes? These get touched alot, and they did for this patch too, almost every character actually. Nintendo slacking so hard on patch notes dude. Pros are gonna have trouble with some characters losing true combo strings. Longer matches now boys. I swear to my God, I'm not lying. I modded my smash on yuzu and have tools to look at the parameters. They don't have labels so it's super hard to see what code belongs to what, but After comparing character files with each from last patch. They changed so much more, I'm a true combo guy, I value that frame data, and you'll notice on some characters in training mode yourself if you have some die hard true combo strings, then you'll know. I have modded smash since brawl. I'm 29 years old. I'm a loser who actually looked into this. Sakurai ain't fooling me, thought I'd tell you guys; because frig man. Nintendo ALWAYS do this. I swear Grezzo does this type of thing too. Say they patch something, while patching other things in the background.

[@markercrayon457]

What were some of the changes this patch?

[@RobzdaBlade]

@@markercrayon457 I can't really tell because it's encrpyted. In other smash games, the modding community slowly figured out which value did which. I can easily confirm seph got nerf'd big time. He lost alot of true combo game. his air neutral doesn't combo anymore unless your in wings.

[@RobzdaBlade]

@@ChosenInterval Yea man you got it. I managed to get UMM to work by dumping the game with the update on another emu called Ryujinx. Yuzu doesn't dump the game with the update so mods that change gameplay won't work. There's a tut on gamebanana explaining it. Just dump your game with ryujinx. Though it's still glitchy, my mods only load 1/3 of the time. OR just dump your game with a modded switch. Edit: I'd rather test stuff on a emu. but honestly it's easier for a switch. But I want to open those files to see what's packing y'know?

[@Crozone76]

Ok, maybe, MAYBE this is a placebo, but when playing with a friend while I was Dedede, they were super confused on why down throw fair was working at like, 120% and such, I just thought it was their trash DI, but they generally DI the move really well. I know you mentioned in an earlier reply that you don't have all the changes and stuff, but is it possible that even a throw could of been changed? Again it could just be a placebo effect idk.

[@YounesLayachi]

@@Crozone76 I watch/played lots of dedede and I thought dthrow fair combos until very high percent since ever ?

[@kevinhurtado6647]

nice to hear the fe4 music

[@paulroche6969]

Falcon buff is an incredible difference. 20 years!

[@lordquastheonly]

But why buff mii gunners side smash attack

[@Zye1984]

WHERE'S PIKACHU'S NERFS

[@smartpatrick8690]

They need to nerf that darn s tier rat

[@poshcatterson1790]

The ZSS nerfs matter a lot actually, nair going from -2 to -4 severely hurts her shield pressure game against characters with fast moves as well as just generally. It went from impossibe to punish to difficult

[@littlemacisunderrated412]

One whole frame!

[@meimmakoto3224]

The joker side b nerf is pretty much to make onstage pressure harder and also offstage pressure hard

[@Kragglover2003]

Could you do Lucas hitboxes next?

[@alexanderharrison7421]

How do you spit on the grave of a hitbox

[@jus4977]

i would like to see a master hand hit box analysis

[@StormTrooperEX]

are u kidding they reverted a minor nerf for mac with out actually buffing him this is irratating

[@koolooc726]

9:25 the pyra and mythra video

[@GoldDragon20]

This format seems better than the script, since if you flub the script, it sounds bad, but you can flub it if it isn’t scripted.

[@SuperJumpBros]

Imagine for Luigi buff, He rises on the Cyclone (down-B)

[@wingedbluj1674]

I think the winners this patch are Falcon/Ganon and Byleth.

[@rosar78rockgames29]

Yeah, ganon and falcon cant get edgeguarded in the same way anymore!!!

[@DarkworldLP]

No it was Pyra and Mythra... because somehow I believe they will get nerfed in the next patch.. XD

[@garielgames4018]

Guys I think the Pyra and Mythra hitbox video is going to take a little more effort.

[@aerospherology2001]

Pyra and Mythra's Peculiar and Mystifying Hitboxes

[@Star_Taro]

Could you do a video on sheiks hitboxes? I wanna see how pitiful they are hehe

[@redlord5892]

Shit, it's her damage output that's pitiful.

[@pizzaritos]

Can we please nerf that damn rat Pikachu

[@pantless1472]

9:25 The Pyra and Mythra hitbox video is probably going to take a bit more effort. The Pyra and Mythra hitbox video is probably going to take a little bit more effort.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

Is Pichu decent again?

[@LunaDachi]

Regarding Seph Scintilla: I had a clip pre-patch or a Ken trying to Shoryuken to recover, and I repeatedly countered. He’d get hit by the initial hits, but then fall out before the last. He’d up b again, and the repeat would happen Guessing the buff is to prevent that

[@doomedgundam6684]

I really wish they'd give Mario's up smash more knockback and increase the Range of his up tilt.

[@inserthf]

i was so hype to see a steve buff because i main alex and now i see the change and im sad lmao (not like he needs buffs honestly, hes pretty strong as is)

[@lillierose3958]

Pyra and Mythra’s Multipurpose Hitboxes

[@velvetbutterfly]

I wonder what it would be like if every character was as buffed as people wanted them

[@Elgrande-yr4gb]

Woah genealogy music in a smash video

[@winterstelling7837]

I don't really know where else to ask this, but is mythra faster than shiek?

[@eukarya_]

You mean movement or attack speed?