Gen 2 Pokémon is Bad, So I'm Fixing It

[@smithplayspokemon]

Watch to the end or this video won't make full sense.

[@BigOrangeSnowman88]

ok

[@Mojavekight17]

OBJECTION!

[@Shin3y]

No matter how bad the game “objectively” is, it’s not gonna stop me, or most fans from enjoying it. This is certainly an interesting take though.

[@lmaolol7702]

cope. gsc/hgss are still the peak of pokemon and always will be.

[@knasigboll]

no, the intro offended me!

[@JudeofAwesometon]

Allow me to share my memory of Gen 2. I was super excited about Houndoom and to have it on my team. I would play with my gameboy under the cover at night to try and find one. I eventually beat Johto and begged my parents to get me the guide to find out where it was. Needless to say my little heart was crushed and confused when I found out it was not only not in Johto but the most random route in Kanto...I still grinded that shit to fight Red though.

[@TheSydneyLad]

Did you try asking someone if they knew where Houndour was?

[@renatoramos8834]

Can't you use the pokedex to find his route?

[@JudeofAwesometon]

I was 7 at the time with crippling anxiety so no lol. And probably could have used the dex...but again 7 year old brain lol

[@ryanjbuchanan]

​@@renatoramos8834 In gen 2, the Pokedex only shows the location for Johto mons

[@sebastiankulche]

@@ryanjbuchanan I think it can show the location of Kanto mons as well but you have to be on Kanto, not matter if you were already there or not... what a terrible design issue.

[@kelly_times]

The worst part is that most of these problems weren't fixed in HGSS, which is such a shame as HGSS is fantastic otherwise.

[@smithplayspokemon]

100% agree with this

[@EingefrorenesEisen]

I feel like this is an oxymoron. If it had all these problems, what made it great? I could see like, "it had a lot of potential", but I think there's a huge difference between that and saying "it has all these fundamental unfun design choices... but it's still good." I never played hgss because Gen 2 left such a bad taste in my mouth. Did they really only just upgrade the graphics?

[@Kageryushin]

@@EingefrorenesEisen HGSS had a metric fuckton of additional content, all of which is extremely high quality. The initial journey is very faithful to the original (which could be seen as a good thing in and of itself for nostalgia purposes, but at the very least it's not worse), so the progression through Johto itself is still flawed. HGSS instead focuses on expanding and fixing the flaws of the postgame, which it nails through new material such as the Gym Leader rematches and the Celebi side quest, which expands on the Team Rocket and Silver story arcs in satisfying ways which tie everything together. The game is also just pleasing to look at, which is unfortunately more than Sw/Sh can say a lot of the time.

[@PMar797]

​@@Kageryushin don't oversell the postgame and the amount of content it has. It basically comes down to a mini game compilation, a few legendaries, some rematches and two events. That's it. No significant plot, Kanto is stripped down from what it was in RBY/FRLG, the dungeons are not exciting since we know exactly what to expect from them, and Johto still feels irrelevant. HGSS are a nice coat of paint, but that's it. Easily the most overrated Pokemon games, and they belong in B tier. BW2 are still the peak, followed by Emerald and Platinum

[@Jdudec367]

@@PMar797 Kanto was pretty great actually and was bigger than Gen 2 Kanto at least so it is still pretty good. They are as they are still fun to go through and Johto does not and never did feel irrelevant. No they are solid great games. I dunno Emerald and Platinum are flawed but great too, also USUM is underrated and is at least better then Emerald which heck ORAS is ALSO better than Emerald, also USUM has a better plot than BW2 Platinum HGSS and Emerald too.

[@tabbender1232]

They didn't have the same philosophy for new pokemons back then. New mons were supposed to be kind of secret and you were supposed to either get lucky or go out of your way to find them. Unlike gens 3+ where new mons are the main focus (because they're not supposed to be sequels like gen 2 was)

[@jamst5913]

The different philosophy applies to other critiques of gen 2 as well. Gen 1 didn't have a story. Mewtwo wasn't mentioned until near the end, so it wasn't the goal. Half the towns don't have anything plot wise, and the other half are mostly self contained. Team rocket's goal in both is "do organized crime". The story in both is "become the pokemon champion". It isn't bound by the rules set in Gen 3 where every game had to have an overarching story and a enemy " team" with a world changing goal and btw here's a pile of new pokemon to stop them and save the mcguffin.

[@tabbender1232]

@@jamst5913 Yeah story really wasn't a priority in the first 2 gens, in fact i'd go as far as saying even in gen 3 team Magma/Aqua's motivations pretty much existed only to represent the duality between Groudon and Kyogre. Gens 4 and 5 are when they started taking storytelling more seriously i feel

[@Mqstodon]

​@@jamst5913 but gen 1 had an overarching story. You had to defeat giovanni to move the story and it felt meaningful because he was an intimidating character for the time. The rockey crew in gen 2? Eeeh...

[@lmaolol7702]

@@Mqstodon the overarching "story" (i use "story" lightly because it's not a proper story) in gen 2 is you going on your own adventure and helping out in little ways to make the world a slightly better place, and you can actually see things changing as you go along. the game is full of little things like this that no one notices but it all adds up to a bigger picture. - helping out mr pokemon with his egg, togepi being the literal kindness pokemon, signifying the whole theme of the game - helping out kurt with team rocket, as a result the slowpoke come back to azalea and kurt rewards you with apricorn balls - helping out the bike shop guy with advertisement, and he calls you back to tell you sales have gone up thanks to you, the devs really didn't have to put this detail in but they did anyway - curing the sick miltank at moomoo farm, after you help it the miltanks come out and play in the farm again, and the owner sells you moomoo milk as thanks - curing amphy as a literal required part of the story - helping lance out with team rocket at mahogany - getting rid of team rocket for good in goldenrod - eventually being met by ho-oh, who only seeks a trainer with a pure heart and to add on to that your rival is the complete opposite of you, only cares about himself, doesn't treat anyone or anything with respect, but slowly through his character arc he learns off you the error of his ways and works on becoming a better person. there's a whole lot more that i've probably missed, but this just shows that no one cares about these kinds of details anymore because people are obsessed with le ebin surface level plots like gen 5 where everything is spoonfed to you. i'm not saying the gen 2 storyline is some kind of masterpiece, just that no one bothers to actually read into it properly.

[@Eminster]

All I hear is a gen 2 fan trying to find ways to make gen 2 seem better than it actually is

[@TheEmpireDabsBack]

I always laugh at that 1% Dunsparce rate because my most recent replay of Crystal, the first pokemon I found in Dark Cave was a Dunsparce 🤣

[@loon1994]

I hope it was a nuzlocke playthrough

[@Vikculp]

It was the Farfetched of Gen2, difficult to get but completely useless. Plus its based on Tsuchinoko, a rare near mythical snake in Japanese folkores and list of urban legends, which is very very rare to see or capture. Its Japanese name is Nokochi that is just jumbling Tsuchinoko and removing the Tsu

[@AlmostNamedOne]

they should make dududduududududududududunsparce

[@theREALsilviautism]

i was playing heartgold and the first rock i smashed in dark cave had a dunsparce that i then promptly boxed and forgot about to be fair they are more common with rock smash but like damn

[@Glory2Snowstar]

Dunsparce is meant to be a meme, so the tiny encounter rate makes sense. I’d like to think that the Three-Segment Dudunsparce is kind of a spiritual successor to the whole “super rare but not worth it Pokemon” concept, having zero gameplay difference and all. They’re FUNNY jokes though, so I like them a lot.

[@sceptile2794]

But you can't deny how good hgss look despite of the flaws

[@polarisoffical2954]

HGSS are the best gen 4 game

[@maurocruz9880]

hgss is a better game with some of the same flaws. Platinum is the better gen 4 game

[@polarisoffical2954]

@@maurocruz9880 but HGSS has the better post game and also more stuff to actually do

[@kefkapalazzo1]

@@polarisoffical2954 are you serious? Platinum is far superior lmao

[@kefkapalazzo1]

@@polarisoffical2954 I’d much rather a smaller hut catered experience than the barely slapped together nonsense of kanto. No challenge, no story, and even the level scaling sucks

[@holzman00]

In regards to GSC not showing off the Johto Pokemon enough, I legit didnt realize that Skarmory was a Gen 2 Pokemon until much later into my fandom. I assumed that it was a Gen 3 Pokemon since those games showed it off so much more. I feel like GSC gets a pass from most because of its nostalgic value, but it really left a lot to be desired.

[@ferrariairwolf]

same here.

[@TheNadroj10]

No one ever played stadium 2 I guess. Slugma is another mon people think originated in gen 3

[@Glory2Snowstar]

Skarmory and Slugma both feel far more at-home in Hoenn, having specific environments that fit their designs and popping up early enough to prove their utilities. …Y’know rather than being a rare version-exclusive on an optional Route and a post-game Pokémon on a random Grass Route respectively

[@nc5958]

@@TheNadroj10 Everyone talks about Skarmory, Slugma, and Magcargo being honorary Gen 3 Pokémon but two more honorary Gen 3 Pokémon are Chinchou and Lanturn. At least a Firebreather outside Mt. Moon uses Slugma and Blaine uses Magcargo but no trainers in GSC use Chinchou, Lanturn, or Skarmory. Trainers use Chinchou, Lanturn, and Skarmory in the Hoenn games. Also, Skarmory and Chinchou appear in mandatory routes in Hoenn. In GSC, you will only ever see Chinchou and Lanturn if you are looking for them by using a Good Rod or a Super Rod. Skarmory appears in Route 45 but it is exclusive to Silver and Crystal.

[@justahallpass]

I used to think I was the only one, but we’re not alone.. I actually read that it was a gen 2 pokemon once and thought that was a mistake; that’s how convinced I was 😂 you never see it in those games, but boy does it show up a ton in RSE.

[@itsbmeGaming]

One of the things I think would be great for you to fix is the move incompatibility for all of the Pokemon. For example, in GSC Venusaur cannot learn Sludge Bomb but in later gens it does. I think taking moves that existed in Gens 1 and 2 which Pokemon could learn in later gens should be made available. It would make some movesets so much better and give more Pokemon more niches. Like Aerodactyl with Rock Slide would be pretty scary if it just flinches you to death. Venusaur with Sludge Bomb/Earthquake can be a decent mixed sweeper. It would open up some creativity. I also think making ghost type special and dark type physical would make sense. Gengar with special Shadow Ball is cool and even Espeon packing Shadow Ball is neat.

[@luckybob04]

As someone who loves gen 2 and was ready to defend it… yeah, you’re right. I will say I loved the games at the time because they expanded the world of Pokémon beyond. (Wait, there’s more than just Kanto and these 151 Pokémon?) Each town in Johto was unique and had its own lore, and that world building to me was so interesting. Johto was a mysterious place in a way that Kanto never was, although it was neat to see how Kanto had changed in the three years since the last game. The day/night cycle with nocturnal and diurnal Pokémon, shiny Pokémon, eggs with inherited movesets, getting confused about seeing my Pokemon infected with something called “PokeRus,” roaming legendaries, great new designs that were a departure from the original Pokémon, new evolutions for existing lines, etc. While future games would build off of the first two gens, at the time, it really did seem as though G/S/C had taken a major leap forward.

[@colecronin7660]

They just focused on the wrong things. These things nobody cares about.

[@lmaolol7702]

@@colecronin7660 i'd rather have a game with lots of love, care and attention to details than proper muh level balancing or whatever it is you autists cry about nowadays

[@ColdHumor]

@@colecronin7660 Pretty sure there is a pokemon subculture of catching shinies. Which came from gen 2.

[@TotallyCluelessGamer]

@@colecronin7660 and yet even in this comment section alone you'll find a fair number of people for whom this generation is their favorite. Its all down to what you personally prioritize, Johto strikes a balance between feeling alive and giving the player the freedom to go where they want to that other games fail to live up to due to the overbearing stories other games that tend to have more dynamic worlds have.

[@colecronin7660]

@@TotallyCluelessGamer u saying gs is better than sv no way gs is the actual Pokémon part of the game is crap

[@kasaibouF29]

You forgot to mention that the original Gen 2 GBC cartridge's battery runs dry quicker than Gen 1's because of the clock, and when that battery runs dry, your save file is gone.

[@getgle]

Wtf

[@loon1994]

Gen 2 specifically did the best at creating a living world of mystery and adventure, especially when considering the hardware limitations that get exasperated by the fact gold and silver were original gameboy games unlike crystal which got opened up due to it being a gameboy color only game. I love that the games for completionist are great 30-45 min bite sized daily play with new events every single day to keep tasks varried just enough to keep it interesting. With all that said, this video is spot on about the faults of this generation

[@FMOLETTE]

The mystery in the game was mostly from it being unfinished. Although I can kid of see where you’re coming from, I’d really recommend you play it again, even with the hardware limitations it really is lackluster in that sense. Maybe you could say that for HGSS but those are remakes

[@loon1994]

@@FMOLETTE I am currently playing crystal for a living dex, within the last year nuzlocked gold (failed victory road) and played silver physically around Xmas to play stadium 2 properly. I am not saying nostalgia doesn't play a role. However when playing there is a ton more needing to ask people about things, lore is not just forced down your throat, gyms are not linear, story though lacking is fun because this feels like a kid on an open adventure as opposed to the chosen one that most pokemon games make you out to be. Now that might be from the limitations when first developed because crystal and the remakes do more story with suicune, but even then it's not a forced story you need to see to completion like many other games. The low level pokemon do suck and are not conducive to quick playthroughs. However upon playing crystal with a large goal of getting a living dex has created a situation where I play 30-45 min most days to just do a task or two. This style of play makes the level gap more palatable. I look at GSC/HGSS more like you would an animal crossing. It's a game that will take a long time to finish but rewards consistent and short play sessions. Even though the game does have an ending, the end point can be subjective because is it E4? Red? Pokedex? Living dex? Shiny dex? Competitive singles? For me GSC have the best exploration and having you feel like a participant in the world as opposed to a protagonist in a story. My view is completely subjective, but in my world is correct

[@user-wi9se5ll3j]

Gen 4

[@loon1994]

@@user-wi9se5ll3j I like gen 4 and it was the last generation that felt like pokemon. However it still forces a story that you are the chosen one. Now if story is what you look for gen 4 might be my favorite. It essentially perfected the story telling this generation. However gen 1 and 2 was much more adventure than story. This creates a way to finish gyms out of designed order. Generally speaking gen 1 and 2 had a go at your own pace play from beginning to end. Starting with gen 3 there seems to be a predetermined track, and a pressing issue awaiting you in the next town/area. There is nothing wrong with liking story in pokemon games. In my case I just feel it pushes too much into story as opposed to just explore the world

[@user-wi9se5ll3j]

@@loon1994 Yeah they had the chosen one thing because just like Gen 2 they were meant to be the last games. Also I agree with the Gen 1 part Gen 2 doesn't have that same feeling, it's what started the whole trail thing.

[@patricgmuer2988]

In your rom hack, make sure you fix the issues like some of the poke balls not working like they are supposed to, and also other glitches that were there.

[@christopherballero866]

While HG/SS did help a lot with the: physical/special, new moves, new Pokemon, the ability to get evolution stones a lot sooner, & various evolutions the level issues & some bad options was still a problem. Also trade evolutions especially with specific held items was still a massive pain

[@royalreptile923]

I mean you can’t really fault HG/SS with the trade items since DP had an abundance of them first. At least it was easier like you said and it made a much better post-game than the originals.

[@lunkee6972]

We aren’t talking about gen 3-4 though. HGSS are not “gen 2”. That’s great they’re improved in those games but they… SHOULD be improved. This video was purely focused on gen 2

[@royalreptile923]

@@lunkee6972 Yeah but it doesn’t mean he couldn’t discuss on how HG/SS improved the Gen 2 games.

[@alfredgomez3128]

​@@royalreptile923it's a small mislead, ignoring how many problems remained because HGSS was too faithful to the original. Those new mechanics faltered because Gen 2 was being Gen 2. The remake made visual improvements, Johto is a pretty region to begin with, while the Pokemon remained weak and mismatched.

[@sebastiankulche]

​@@alfredgomez3128This is way i think FRLG was overall a better remake, since Gen 1 had mostly engine issues that were completely fixed in the remake. The map design and pacing of Johto wasnt fixed in the remake besides a few minor aspects so the poblems remained the same. It fixed the engine issues but not the overall design of the game which is way more important.

[@dripmonkey6432]

I recently ran through Crystal a week ago and basically did everything in my power to make it challenging. Level Capping, Researching Routes with the lowest level trainers, etc. I've been delving into RomHacks and trying to decide which one to play and I think I'm gonna save myself until your's drops! Looking forward to watching it evolve. ✌

[@woowaah8639]

Crystal Clear would be my recommendation.

[@iantaakalla8180]

Since a lot of rare Pokémon are bad Pokémon in Johto, perhaps a rarest Pokémon run could work?

[@hughmungus1501]

My issue with G/S/C is that half of the time, you're going to get lost unless you have a guide on the first runs. Usually Pokemon games tend to give you a clear direction on where to go next and what to do next, this game doesn't give you anything so most of the time you might get lost. Keep in mind: You don't want a game to hold your hand 99% of the time but you need to give clear directions on where to go. It's basic game design

[@Noir_Baa]

He ain't lying. Take off the rose-tinted nostalgia glasses.

[@boRegah]

I agree. But do his complaints matter much if you didn't care about any of them on your first playthrough in 2002?

[@sebastiankulche]

​​@@boRegahFirst impressions sometimes are as accurate as a butt. Retrospective analyzes are neccesary to see if a game holds up, nostalgia aside.

[@cduke_Net_Architect]

I love the idea of an attempt to fix all the issues that you mentioned. My first game was Yellow, but Gold has a special spot with me as the one I played the longest.

[@abiwonkenabi7027]

I feel very justified, because my fiance and I have been saying for years that gen 2 wasn't that good

[@sillentgamer64]

I agree with a lot of your points about Gen 2's flaws, but I have to nitpick some things: 1. Ampharos is available in Gold and Silver, you can dunk on Crystal for excluding it all you want but this isn't a valid point against all of Gen 2. 2. You get an Eevee in Goldenrod and can speed up the friendship gains with haircuts. If you do it right you should have Umbreon or Espeon around the 6th gym, whichever one you do first. 3. Crobat can be obtained around the 4th or 5th gym, easily. You can get Zubat as early as Dark Cave just before the first gym and as long as you use it often enough throughout the early game for its friendship to grow it will evolve into Crobat almost immediately after you evolve it into Golbat. 4. You're also ignoring all the good Gen 1 Pokemon that are available to you, like Lapras, Fearow, Tauros and Tentacruel. The weird limitation of using exclusively latest-gen Pokemon is a fan-made one that the devs did not intend for, and when they did intentionally do it for Gen 5 a ton of people hated it. Also, you unironically praised one of the worst features to come from Gen 2, the roaming legendaries. The challenge of capturing all 3 beasts in G/S was impossibly hard. Praying to RNGesus that you'll encounter them in the wild along with the chance of them fleeing/roaring away on top of legendary-tier catch rates? No thank you. Crystal slightly improves this by making Suicune a static encounter, but having to seek out 2 roaming legendarys is still terrible (which sadly Gen 4 did not learn from after Gen 3 started going in the right direction by limiting it to only one). That said, I'm looking forward to your ROM hack to fix Gen 2's pacing and narrative issues.

[@kingrippzard2027]

Ampharos not being able to be obtained in crystal is still a knock. You’d be sacrificing Phanpy/Teddiursa otherwise. Crobat still sucks in these games even if you get it.

[@hanezutchins2786]

The worst part about the legendary beasts, Raikou and Entei, to me at least, is that using Mean Look won't do anything? Why? Because fuck me apparently. Let's break a rule to fuck with the player. I get why they did it but it still really disappointed child me when I thought of the Mean Look strategy. I felt so smart. Oh well

[@ladyriethegoldendelmo5441]

Yea crobat better in other games

[@ladyriethegoldendelmo5441]

Yea with the legendary dogs u better off put it to sleep first and 2nd encounter use mean look or if u do speed run and do glitch like wertster whatever his name is. U can do the glitch for the masterball

[@sebastiankulche]

@@hanezutchins2786 Honestly the roaming Pokemon at this point feels like they werent even programmed properly. The best you can do to catch them legally is just to trade the masterball from another save file. Who damn though this was good design?!

[@Freefrost]

I discovered that Skarmory was a 2nd gen pokemon 2 days ago, in my 30's. So yeah, gen 2 pokemon availability sucks mad dick

[@CEDL0W]

To be fair it was a Silver exclusive if you didn’t have that version. I was a Gold kid so I never saw it ingame till Gen 3 either and only knew it was from Gen 2 because of the anime.

[@llamasarus1]

I've heard a game reviewer say that Pokemon G/S/C is more of an emotional masterpiece than a game design masterpiece, and I agree. Regardless, it's still fun to explore and listen to well-composed music.

[@sebastiankulche]

I may agree with that. GSC may be one of the first games in history to evoke a sense of nostalgia if you know what i mean.

[@TheGodKingOfMusic]

I always thought that Gen 2 felt like DLC for Gen 1. That level curve is atrocious.

[@konobakemoon4810]

I've been searching for years a hack that fixes gen 2, but none of them were what they seemed to be, i can't wait to see you reaching you goal, i wish you a good luck!

[@hennyzhi2261]

I think Jhoto's story could use some touch-ups in terms of impact like you did with the rival. But I'm hoping, but fairly confident, you get that the biggest theme under the surface of it all is that life simply moves forward. You have a team of weirdos who cant take the L like their boss did after being confronted with the first trainer to do so and win. You have the new day/night cycle which has it's own mechanics in terms of what you find in the wild + certain evolutions. You have an entire region that has changed since Red went on his journey and became a legend. And then you have the big secret at the mountain top. I think it's fairly hard to see that bigger picture because not enough was done despite the framework to tell that story being there. Like imagine if Giovani came back... only to side with the protag as the new final battle with team rocket. And he comes back because we discover, in the grief at his now repeated losses to Gold/Silver, our rival joins team Rocket temporarily because the admiins will give him "stronger" Pokemon. It provides a much needed bit of closure for Giovani's character arc that, at least from my memory, we somewhat got in RBY by the end. But it would also serve as a similar twist + lowest point for the rival - him only being able to snap out of it after we beat him despite his temporary team + his father stepping in to make sure his son doesn't repeat the mistakes of the father.

[@scootermcpeanuts6699]

On an objective level, yeah. Gen 2 is the worst. However, I’m willing to cut it as well as Gen 1 a bit of slack since they were still in a pretty early state and, flawed as they were, they layed the ground work for the generations past it. A lot of the flaws would later be cleaned up by Gen 3, and anything that was missed got fixed in Gen 4. I can’t really be as forgiving to something like Gen 8 where the groundwork had already been so smoothed out yet the game ended up being so linear and hollow despite being on arguably the most powerful hardware out of all the games.

[@zuperzach]

As a Gen 2 enthusiast, I can’t deny the huge flaws the game had. Even though hacks like Polished Crystal already exist, I'm interested to see what your take on fixing and improving the game is. I can never get enough of Johto!

[@skotiaH2O]

another thing i never liked about Gen 2 is that Ho-Oh was so clearly meant to be the only cover Legendary. Suicune for example was literally just created by Ho-Oh. Lugia was only meant to appear in its movie and was added at the last second (not speculating here, this was confirmed), and that is clearly shown in the games. While you get Ho-Oh's lore and history explicitly mentioned in every playthrough when passing through Ecruteak, Lugia is just vaguely mentioned and relegated to a completely optional area, and aside from its Pokédex description you get NO information on what it can do or how it ties in with the region. Heck, the duality with Ho-Oh is practically non-existant. Ho-Oh is tied to rebirth and rainbows, Lugia is a poorly portrayed stormbringer (not even a Water type, and this will never make sense) who gets outclassed by Kyogre in the literal next generation. Pokémon Gold should've been the only Gen 2 game, with the Legendary beasts quest being expanded on for all three instead of just Suicune and Lugia being an optional postgame level 70 boss as a cool anime reference.

[@ejokurirulezz]

mind that the later editions, crystal,emerald, platinum etc are DLCs and not a third game. It's just the way they found to make extra content to pay for with physical cartridges.

[@Jordan13299]

Imo there’s subtle duality in their designs. Sun and Moon, Sky and Sea, Color and absence of. This is reflected in the two having their own lore within the region. Lugia’s lore is SUPPOSED to be subtle because he’s not a legendary that’s revered, but one that’s feared for his destructive power. Ho-oh is the Amaterasu to Lugia’s Suasno-o. I appreciate the subtlety in their connection over the blatant “fuck you you’re the opposite of me” we saw in the next two gens’ mascots.

[@pride_mitochondria3921]

Lugia not being water type makes complete sense when you realize it's only living underwater because it's so powerful it causes destruction by existing. Dex entries even in Gold say that it hides and chooses to live quietly under the sea.

[@skotiaH2O]

@@pride_mitochondria3921 nope, it's stated that the flapping of its wings creates storms, and it uses several Water type moves throughout the entire series, including Pokémon Ranger where literally ALL the attacks it uses are Water-based.

[@pride_mitochondria3921]

@@skotiaH2O that doesn't really disprove what I said, doesn't matter how it causes storms or destruction, it lives underwater to protect the world from itself. Never played a Ranger game but I'm not gonna hold much stock in a spin off game.

[@GoonieLord]

Gen 1 is still my favorite but gen 2 was a huge game changer. I remember a simpler time long ago

[@blackkkabllakkcaa]

8 gyms was dope, 16 gyms in 2nd Gen tho! Dope!

[@Nizzy37]

Totally agree with every point in this video. Will note that you can get an eevee from bill in goldenrod so espeon before Morty is possible

[@Jack-496]

I’m incredibly excited to see this project turn out! As someone who played Pokémon Crystal Smith (yes, I remember it!), I thought it was great and something worth continuing. I love that your are continuing, and it’s great to see you have another go! Gen 2 is certainly my favorite game in theory, and the way the map is set up is genuinely the best in the series. Still, I wish you good luck!

[@jamst5913]

Zubat is available before the 1st gym, and by the time you get to Whitney it'll evolve into Golbat and possibly straight to Crobat.

[@smithplayspokemon]

have fun using leech life and bite for 20 levels XD

[@jamst5913]

@@smithplayspokemon Wait, you aren't supposed to do that on purpose? XD Maybe my team of 6 Crobats wasn't necessary. Yeah zubat needs to be babysat with the 1st slot switch method and in the end Gen 2 Crobat just plain isn't amazing anyway.

[@AzureDragon158]

Espeon and Umbreon are both also available reasonably early. I never face Morty without at least one of them.

[@nicholasaugello2534]

​@@jamst5913 that's actually impressive

[@dse763]

I know Crobat is good ... but a flying type against a mon that spams Rollout ?!

[@----x-----]

glad someone could say it and put it so well too I recently replayed them and all of these issues were so obvious and really got in the way of what the game could be atmosphere is pretty much the only thing I think gen 2 truly has going for it, and even with stuff like the ruins it does nothing tho fighting Red is still the hypest moment in all pokemon games

[@sebastiankulche]

I would say the Rayquaza battle in MD and Dialga are the best final battles of the franchise, especially considering how highly emotional the narrative was at that point.

[@bram3205]

I wouldn't even consider the rival storyline a storyline at all. It's just one character that gets a little bit of development. And while you say the team rocket storyline is bad, i'd go even further to say that it is completely absent for most of the game. You see them in the slowpoke well before battling the 2nd gym leader, and then we don't see them again until after the 6th gym leader. I mean what the hell? There is absolutely no story in between. Nothing but random trainers and low level gym leaders. My nostalgia said that gen 2 were my favorite pokemon games. I am replaying gen 1, 2 and 3 after years, and I now think gen 2 is by far the worst.

[@IITheGoodLifeII]

Dude, I cannot wait until the release of your rom hack. I love, love, love Gen 2. I appreciate you highlighting its flaws, so that in the end we can get the experience we all thought we had all those years ago.

[@jaredcrabb]

Subjectively bad. Also, lucky or persistant. There NEVER was a time when anything I fought was a higher level than pokemon I used. And yes Im including Red in that. Karen doesnt have a Pupitar cause itd still be a Larvitar (in gen 2 it was levels 50 and 70 that Larvitar evolved at). Gold/Silver never had the legendary dogs storyline. Silver doesnt have the trade evolutions cause hes got no friends. Since they use the same elite four, kanto leaders cant be stronger. They shouldnt be as strong as they are, unless they have higher level gym pokemon for those who came from Johto.

[@AiramLP10]

Pokémon Gold was my favorite game when little, but it wasn't until recently that I realized how much I wish Johto would have depend less on Kanto to make itself great. Now I even think having two regions in one game isn't 100% good and it wasn't handled all that well here. From Pokémon availability, to the main villain... Heck, I could see a twist with Eusine and Morty as interesting villains considering their seek for Legendary Pokémon, rather than having Rockets again. The level curve was tough as well, in recent years I would rather resource to the cloning glitch and get 5 Rare Candies every cloning as soon as I can use Surf in that Violet City spot after beating Morty. The learnset just has little to no excuse either, specially for the Gen II Pokémon.

[@Kristian-cf5mp]

Also the absence of Cerulean Cave in any form of post game content was annoying. Imagine being able to go in there and catch Mewtwo again

[@Smily613]

Man imagine if you could just use the pokegear to call up trainers to rematch then at higher lvls to grind a bit. You could have even limited it to once every 30 min to a hour or something. Nah just wait for someone to call you and probably tell you about some random thing their pokemon did and hang up.

[@sebastiankulche]

Yeah, that should be mention too. The phone calls are WAY too annoying. Like there is zero point besides the ones that tells you someone has an item for you. After Gen 3 i think they removed pointless conversations, though the ones of Gen 3 are very quick but a bit of annoying when you use the bike for the eggs.

[@fansee1368]

And the gym leader rematches being limited by a certain time/day of the week felt like such a hassle Why lock such a great feature (and the only viable way to grind for Red) behind a time limit

[@tabbender1232]

What's funny about the level curve thing, especially for wild pokemon, is that it's actually out of necessity. Gen 2 games track which level you got your pokemon at on their profile, however due to the way they implemented it they couldn't store a number greater than 63 there. So they made it so no wild pokemon is over that level. That's why legendaries are level 60 instead of 70 in gen 2 Edit: After double checking this only applies to Crystal since GS don't keep track of the level you got your pokemon at

[@smithplayspokemon]

Depending on whether you play gold or silver, the non cartridge legendary (ho oh in silver, lugia in gold) will be level 70.

[@chazym9649]

In Silver version, wild Ho-Oh is level 70 when you catch it at Tin Tower. The same applies to Lugia in Gold version in the Whirl Islands.

[@tabbender1232]

Oh yeah after double checking that actually only applies to Crystal since Gold and Silver don't keep track of the level. So that's not the reason at least for GS, my bad

[@edsainmuramasa4751]

Wait why did you say espeon and umbreon are only available in the e4? I had mine evolved in like ten levels

[@TheNadroj10]

Exactly dude is exaggerating just to make a point

[@HeyThisIsBrian]

Good on you for not simply making a rant video, but being proactive enough to try and fix the issues. Godspeed.

[@Man2th806]

This is the answer to my prayers and planning, lol. I didn't want to look into how to code and mod the game to fix these very issues, but my conclusion is this: this game has the ability to be one of the best, most balanced, most joyful, most nostalgic sequels or standalone games when these very issues are addressed. I've watched your videos for awhile but this got the solid sub. Thank you for this!

[@andersjacobson2487]

I hate when people say “objectively bad” when that is by definition a subjective opinion

[@ExaltedTilemaker]

If you think Sunflora being bad is by definition a subjective opinion, play with one.

[@lukejensen1222]

yeah idk why he says that

[@finmat95]

Because they're based af.

[@SuperKamehameha2]

I adore Gen 2. While Red was my first, Gold was what really really made me a Pokemon fan. I was old enough to really remember and have great memories with it, while gen 1 I really dont despite still having my original files. Though despite that I agree with pretty much every single thing here. But like others have said I put it aside because I just love it so much. Really cant wait to see this rom hack

[@JamiePokemonTrainer]

despite all the good things GSC and HGSS had, they had their issues. A big issue is gen 2 pokemon found only in post game. HGSS didn't even fix that issue with pokemon like Houndour found only in Kanto. Also Johto gym leaders having a lot of gen 1 pokemon is ridiculous. Also they had to cut down some Kanto areas in gen 2 - cerulean cave closed, Seaform Islands reduced to a single room, etc

[@jak1165]

I actually think Team Rocket is a very good villain. We see what happens when Giovanni is no longer around to keep people in line. Team Rocket used to have a goal. Now they just cause chaos and maim pokemon for fun and profit. That's pretty damn scary for a kids game

[@s07195]

It's literally yakuza but with their leader gone, they turn back into regular ruffians (but also doing guerrilla shady shit). I'm playing Crystal VC for the first time right now in Japanese, and Rocket is quite a bit more intimidating.

[@commanderb7291]

The worst part about Gen 2 is that the batteries powering the cartridges are unavoidably doomed to fail, due to the day/night cycle the game uses. At best, you get 10-15 years before your game data is lost. Only way to avoid this is replacing the battery before then, and there's no indication when the battery is about to fail either. It gets better, not: you can't just disconnect the battery and replace it, no, no, that would be too simple. What convoluted method you need to know, aside from the ability to use soldering tools, is to connect 2 AA batteries to the game cartridge battery terminals, then replace the battery with the intended one, and just hope you did it right and didn't lose your data. I really enjoyed these games back in the day, but when they just up and failed out of the blue, thus deleting all my data, shit sucks. Lost my original Charizard from back in 1996. BTW, my original Red and Blue still work despite being that much older than G/S/C. Wish Nintendo would have addressed this issue, but I am beginning to learn and understand that companies just do not care, they're just after your money. Sad reality isn't it?

[@finmat95]

I'm so sorry for your loss. The only thing you can do is to transfer that save file into a permanent memory card even if this is not the intended way to preserve it other than replace the battery periodically.

[@Crashpunk]

Yup. Just like you, it's one of those things where I agree with almost every critique of Gen 2 mentioned. But I never care cause it's still my favourite game in the series and it's what got me so obsessed with Pokemon. It's a very special game to me. I'm VERY excited for this balanced romhack in the works :)

[@skeetermania3202]

Starting off the best way possible: Misusing “objectively” to arbitrarily make your point stronger. Does not a good case make.

[@sebastiankulche]

People who say that you cant criticize this games for its time seems to didnt played truly RPGs that were released before and are objectively a much better experience like FF6, Earthbound or Dragon Quest 3. Hell, i would even argue that Gen 1 is superior not just because of its innovations but also because Gen 2 its so overambitious to the point the entire game feels half baked and a damn chore as a result.

[@jaretco6423]

Tell that to Europe as they never had an RPG till the PS1 with Final Fantasy 7.

[@sebastiankulche]

@@jaretco6423 I think saying never is an overstatement, especially because at least in FF case, the games were re released alongside FF7 on the PS1 on Europe, but i see your point.

[@SeanORaigh]

The rival/champion twist is only ok. It's only considered one of the best in the series due to the abject lack of any other interesting twists in the series. The Team Plasma twist in BW and the Professor twist in SV are both leagues better.

[@et34t34fdf]

Welcome to Jotho, where you pick the best gen 1 has to offer. Want good gen 2 pokemons? Go get them in Kanto!

[@sebastiankulche]

Thats basically one of the best ways to define Gen 2: "Gen 1 2.0"

[@Trishula707]

Adding on to my previous comment I hated how you have to trade onix with a steel coat instead of using steal coat like an evolution stone. The trading evolve mechanic is dumb because sometimes you don’t have a cord or anyone to trade with

[@sebastiankulche]

Even though Gen 1 also had this issue to a lesser extend like evolution only for trade (when GF would learn about PMD?!) i agree.

[@blugetsbusy4508]

It is bruh. I said this since I was a kid when it came out. That’s why I loved Gen 3 when it first released. They were just cool and better. They had edge to them. Gen 2 had the baby designs and the Pokémon didn’t hit the same except for a few exceptions. Gen 2 was about Quantity vs Quality. Post game was awesome but you couldn’t utilize half of what made KANTO unique as the first games being released. The majority of the Gen 2 Pokémon which are cool and USEFUL outside of Skarmory/Heracross aren’t available until the post game AND the levels don’t match at the point in the game making it such a pain to grind with no point because you beat the game by that point.

[@jprec5174]

Except the point of gen 2 was to develop op pokemon for pokemon stadium 2 pvp. My cousin was a huge pokemon nerd around the gen two era and he cranked out super op pokemon that id borrow to beat everyone at school because the game worked differently than the modern gen3+ games work. Pokemon were at a lower level because EVs were increased mostly through experience. This meant rare candies were bad and catching high level pokemon was also bad. This meant that to minmax the game you had to breed pokemon and start them at lvl 5. So yes gen 1/2 were grindy and designed that way intentionally. All of these videos ive seen of gen 2 being bad are clearly made by zoomers that weren't around when they were the newest in the series. Also kanto was cut/smaller than gen 1 simply because they wanted players to buy and play both games. It's why you could trade between both gens. Also the pokemon endgame balance was around 50-60 because that was the popular level for tournaments back in the day. Not many people grinded pokemon to lvl 100.

[@kurux]

to make it worse, HGSS doesn't fix any of gen 2 flaws, yeah sure, make a slighly better pokemon availability with the safari and update the pokemon moveset to gen 4 standard, but the core problems are still there, level curve, game design...

[@haydengames3v2]

I like to do theory creafting with the Pokemon story games, like gen 1 rival working with team rocket and such nonsense that makes more sense the more you think on it. Team Rocket in gen 2's plan was odd, but also kind of connected and impactful, like cutting off slowpoke tails to sell them in order to make money for their plan, which ended up being to force evolve pokemon to make them stronger, which ends in a radio tower that could have effected all of Johto...but it kind of did happen, gen 2 has a lot of wild pokemon that doesn't add up, their levels not matching what levels they should be to be at that form, even Falkner has an illegally leveled pidgeotto. So in the end, they did complete a plan, even if it doesn't fully work with the story, unless they were doing small tests areas throughout the game besides lake of rage. As for the rival, I think a non battle would have been more impactful, he comes to his conclusion before the baren victory road and just wishes you luck, of course this would also need more buildup, but the dragon's den is a really good point for a change in charcater, shame it's at the end. I did like him having unevovled pokemon however from a story prespective, shows that he still has a lot to learn and not having a Crobat until the end is also a hint to how he managed it, just fails on the batle aspect, which I believe wasn't Gamereaks focus, leave that to other teams and such, they just like the world and trading. Anyways best of luck with your vision for gen 2, keep an open mind on the story telling as some of the most interesting ideas, are the ones only hinted at.

[@Bolderox]

Thank you, i have always stated gen 2 is overrated. HGSS are still great games, but they still have the weaknesses of gen 2, just modernized versions of those problems.

[@airtempest8945]

Pretty much the only mons you're ever using in Johto are like... Gyarados, Ampharos (in non-Crystal), starter then like Kadabra/Girafarig and then 2 filler slots from "Something decent" (Miltank, Tauros, Primape, Sudowoodo, idk)

[@lmaolol7702]

what the hell? you can use any pokemon you like. gsc has about 190 options available to you before kanto and hgss over 200.

[@nift36]

​@@lmaolol7702 I think the point is that these are the only mons that players will _actually use_ - yeah, you can catch a sentret on route 1, but who _would_?

[@airtempest8945]

@@lmaolol7702 Yeah, you can, but I mean the only ones that really don't require you to go out of your way. I should have included Butterfree in that list though 'cause Butterfree is pretty good with minimal effort, and Scyther is okay too (Pinsir levels up way slower and has a worse movepool). But the list of viable mons for when you get them is quite low. They can be good, but you have to overinvest for them. It's kinda like the Est archetype in Fire Emblem where they're weak late game characters who you can train to be good but the minor upgrade over time is not worth the effort to get there if you're looking at pure viability. For fun though, it's hilarious to meme with a team of things like Xatu, Bellossom, Delibird, etc, but it's still problematic the sheer amount of Pokémon who require you to go out of their way for them to not be utterly useless for when you get them. That's the bigger problem. HG/SS remedies this a bit by having Cliff Cave and the new routes having some decently powerful Pokémon for that point in the game like Steelix and Kingler at respectable levels and a few trainers who are like...not level 18-20 in the 5th-7th gym areas, and giving the player stones other than the Sun Stone early so things like Exeggute aren't left out to dry until way into Kanto, but it still has the problem of "There's a really big plateau in levels".

[@nift36]

​​@@airtempest8945 also the geodude line is insanely good in johto - absolutely destroys the first 3 gyms with ease. probably should've added geodude to your list

[@airtempest8945]

@@nift36 Oh yeah lol. Literally forgot that thing is there but it is great.

[@treespawned7844]

I recently started a series of Pokémon playthroughs using a randomizer, to specifically offset most of the problem you mentioned and it's a lot fun. I made it, so the Pokémon in the wild are random, but roughly the same BST as normally, they also have random move pools by type and get the weaker level-up moves first. The trainers have different Pokémon of similar strength and each has a Team of a certain Pokémon Type, with the Gyms all having a random Type for the whole Gym. I played Red first and Crystal afterwards and I could really appreciate the new editions of Gen 2: new Moves, held Items and especially the 100 new Pokémon. One Example: In my Red playthrough I had an Ice-Type Gym, but there really aren't a lot of ice types in Gen 1. What happened is, that every Trainer in the Gym, other than the Leader (Erika), had Jynx as their only Pokémon, as this was the Ice-Type with the lowest BST. When I got another Ice Gym in Crystal (Chuck's) I was really glad for those 5 new Gen 2 Ice Types, who all had lower BSTs than Jynx and thus could fill out the teams of those Gym Trainers. So i guess what I want to say is: I like the fact, that Gen 2 added a bunch of weaker Pokémon, as that fills out some holes in the Pokémon roster, that were there before. The problems, as you listed, are mostly with the availability of these new mons and their move pools, which I for myself could fix with my randomizer and you will with your Rom Hack.

[@acadow4619]

HARD disagree on Silver's plot. I think it's one of the best rival development we have had. The point of Pokemon at that time was to develop bonds, love and care for your Pokemon and explore the world. That's what Silver does, he becomes a better person because he became a trainer. Your place in this is to show him his methodology had to change to become stronger. It's just not yelled in your face like the new games. You had to go out of your way to finish his plot because you were expected to explore. Not everything was spelled out for you because you were expected to infer a bit. That's what games did back then. You wouldn't even click he was Giovanni's son unless you paid attention to one NPC and even it didn't spell it out. That Crobat is one of the most important Pokemon in Pokemon's history because it SHOWS NOT TELL'S you that Silver's will to change is genuine and he will be alright. In the end, if Blue's twist was at the end then Silver's twist is expecting him to be Blue when he isn't.

[@ZebNyan96]

Exactly! His Golbat evolving when he became a kinder trainer is one of the coolest subtle details Pokémon has done imo.

[@JaredMillsIA]

Gen 2 is my favorite series, Silver is the first game I ever played so I'm really excited to see what you do with it! Looking forward to playing the final result!!

[@thadoodace9755]

I'm doing a crystal run and I basically agree with everything 😭 Gen 2 isn't only my favorite, just sucks that it's flawed so much to the point where it's just a product of its time. I was also thinking of doing a rom hack as well of just adding stuff from HG/SS into the games, with a move relearner, better move pulls, gen 4 pokemon lines, you know the goated stuff. But really, it's a loooot of work, hope you can achieve it though

[@geofflau4215]

Might be an interesting concept to utilize the storyline in the Pokemon Adventures manga. One more criticism of gen 2: the stupid HM moves. There are way too many of them, and most are completely useless moves.

[@anbuaaezone3]

Hey, G2 had its fair share of advantages AND disadvantages. And so did the other generations of Pokémon. We may currently be in G9, but we STILL have to look back on the older gens and see what good and bad they did to us when we played their Pokémon games!!! 😇😇😇

[@sebastiankulche]

Gen 2 advantages: Soundtrack, aesthetic (although its subjective and im not a fan of it), Goldenrod city (one of the best areas in the franchise), some iconic Pokemon like Xatu or Ampharos. Gen 2 disavantages: I can write a book.

[@anbuaaezone3]

@@sebastiankulche 😆🤣😆 (for the disadvantages part; also because it’s a joke)

[@sebastiankulche]

@@anbuaaezone3 Its not a joke though.

[@anbuaaezone3]

@@sebastiankulche Ooooohhhhh. Sorry about that. 😔😔😔

[@sebastiankulche]

@@anbuaaezone3 Sorry? For what? 👀

[@calamorta]

While I like having Pokémon from older gens, it's really boring if your team doesn't have anything other than your 'obligatory' starter as your new gen Pokémon. The game has no "I feel powerful" Pokémon and it deals with this lack of options by making gyms and E4 have low level Pokémon. Gen 2 had potential to be great with all its world building and post game, but it was completely botched.

[@sebastiankulche]

You decided to speak nothing but facts.

[@mjbenzfitness8272]

Easy to explain kanto. You literally became the champion , you SHOULD be overpowered And Red is so OP to be the final hurdle

[@kingrippzard2027]

A lame ass story reason to justify a boring post game aside from the final two fights isn’t an excuse.

[@mizzix]

​@@IndexInvestingWithCole im sorry but that doesn't excuse bad gameplay design

[@mizzix]

@@IndexInvestingWithCole actually i replied to the wrong comment, my bad 💀

[@sebastiankulche]

May make sense from an "story" perspective but not gameplay wise, as grinding is a chore. Emerald did this much better not just because of the levels across the entire game but also the game doesnt expect you to do this to end it.

[@staringatthesun861]

The way to optimize a Gen 2 playthrough is with the Universal Pokemon Randomizer. Simply randomize the Pokemon of all trainers and wild areas, and apply the 1.5 x level multiplier. Now Pokemon like Houndour/Houndoom, Murkrow, Heracross, Misdreavus, Skarmory, Yanma, Porygon2, Slugma/Magcargo, etc. can actually be found in the game, and fought. Now even the incredibly weak Pokemon around the Lake of Rage will be near level 30. Still not perfect, but a far cry from battling 'mons in the TEENS. Or just play HeartGold/SoulSilver.

[@ubemon]

As a Gen Two-er whose first Pokemon game was Crystal and who played it on the Gameboy Color when it came out - I approve of this message 😂

[@beanwuzhear]

Interested to see how you fix Gen 2 specifically (Johto was indeed a mess, but early Pokemon in general was kind of a shitshow) But for anyone interested in Gen 4 Johto, I can't recommend Drayano's Sacred Gold/Storm Silver romhack enough. It does Johto justice, fixing all the issues outlined in this video (even fixing the Rocket plot imo). Both regions feel complete and well rounded, while still keeping everything people already loved about the original remakes (and adding a nice bit of difficulty to it too)

[@pierty878]

These points have been repeated ad-nauseam on this site, and nothing presented here is new or formatted in an interesting way. In addition, you make many profoundly basic mistakes, including: 1. Stating that caterpie and weedle are gen 2 families. 2. Stating that umbreon/espeon and crobat are "basically unaccessible until the elite four." This is blatantly untrue. Crobat can be obtained before the third badge. Eevee can be obtained before the fourth. Happiness, even in casual play, can reach the threshold of evolution within a few towns. 3. Stating that several pokemon are "unusable" including tyrogue/Hitmontop and pineco/foretress. While an opinion and not a fact, it is painful to listen to. These pokemon are effective in both single player or competitive, both at the time of their creation and since. 4. The movesets you listed are incorrect, full of errors, or purposeful omissions of actual moves for what seems to be an agenda. There are so many errors that I can't list them all here because of text limits: Chikorita line learns many grass type moves including solarbeam; typhlosion learns fire blast, fire punch, flame wheel, etc; lanturn gets thunder, zap cannon; scizor gets steel wing; xatu learns psychic via tm; skarmory learns fly; piloswine gets earthquake; sneasel gets several ice moves; yanma learns wing attack (and you SHOW IT ON SCREEN), steelix learns both ground and steel moves, and on and on. I don't even know what to say. Many of the issues you state regarding the under-empowerment of pokemon (because of learnsets, stats, etc.) are negated by another complaint: the difficulty of the game. Most pokemon can be used throughout the single player experience, which is exactly what they were intended for. By the time of the Gen 4 remakes, many of these issues were resolved because the game was designed with modern proclivities. Viewing old games through the lens of modern sensibilities will always yield issues that you can pick and parcel for provocative youtube titles. The truth is that the games are enjoyable experiences, back then and to this day, within the context of the world they create.

[@emperorpat2725]

Poketips would like to know your location.

[@washerface]

Pokemon fans when old rpgs have old rpg tropes :o

[@thespacebat]

Gen 2 is easily the worst gen gameplay wise but gods do I have so many memories with crystal

[@thespacebat]

And gen 3 was my favorite, but after beating sapphire I got a copy of gold and spent countless hours in Johto so I just have to love it so much.

[@thebarbelllifestyle1478]

I'd like to see a rom hack that has imposter prof oak included since he was scrapped for some reason, probably for lack of space. Might even be an interesting recurring villain in the Kanto post game. Would make more sense to have him there since oak is from Kanto anyway.

[@jeffreyt02]

I had no life to speak of yet at that time so I took the grind serious. Maxing out my team at level 50 to 65 before taking on the elite four. It took FOREVER 🤣 But even though the game had massive issues, I didn’t notice as a young teenager. To me it was epic and huge. However if I revisit it now it’s difficult to enjoy

[@Mr__Jack]

Is GSC overrated? There’s an argument to be made there even if I personally don’t see it. However, it’s in no way worse than the absolute garbage that is Gens 7, 8, and 9. GSC, in spite of its flaws, still had heart and soul which is completely absent from modern Pokemon. Also, you’re telling me that the reveal that the final and most powerful trainer in the game is actually your character from the first game wasn’t a phenomenal twist? Who else could be a more worthy foe for the player than themselves? In comparison to Gens 6 onward, which are filled to the brim with hand-holding storylines and characters that I don’t care about, Gen 2 is kind enough to keep it simple and actually let me play the game instead of the absolute slog that is Sun and Moon.

[@NeoArashi]

I loved gen 2 when it came out, but I agree with you: It sucks. I still have fun with it and regularly play on my 3DS, but compared to gens 3-9? No, gen 2 (and by extention HGSS) are far from being the best gen ever.

[@Joey15811]

Honestly I kinda think the Johto region needs a revamp. Get all Johto mons in Johto not Kanto/Post Game And also they need to do something about how grass types that region...Grass is good against practically FA in the entire game and weak or resistant by the entire game. So add something Grass is good against. Heck set it in a different time where gym leaders are promoted and Newer gym leaders have new gyms with something Grass stands a chance to be useful I do think Johto games are over rated because of Kanto post game and pokemon following you.

[@robertlupa8273]

Put a Ground gym in Johto, since Giovanni is gone and Blue doesn't limit himself to a single type. That and maybe give the Rocket Execs some more varied Pokemon (like give Archer a Rhydon or something).

[@StevenFlosi]

I agree with a lot of the points that you make and some I never thought about before. I'm interested to see what your thoughts are on HeartGold and SoulSilver and if those did anything to fix the issues you mentioned. Possibly an idea for another video?

[@Shyguymask]

"Gen 2 is the worst game in the series" My brother in Christ Gen 1, X/Y, ORAS, SwSh and BDSP exists and are all factually worse video games with more egregious problems and neglects despite how many flaws Gen 2 itself already has. At least Gen 2 doesn't practically play itself & has basic challenges there and there, and depending on which games we're comparing Gen 2 doesn't look like vomit to look at either. Like I don't know why people keep parroting this take about Gen 2 being as bad as it gets (????) when it's blatant the series has seen much worse since then. 2:44 Since when is 110 speed and sufficient bulk on a primarily support mon, in gen 2, "terrible"? Forretress with heavy physical bulk and average at worst attack is "terrible"? Hitmontop isn't amazing but isn't remotely terrible either, just average overall. 3:06 I don't know if you're just rushing through the game really quickly each playthrough but everytime I have played gen 2 my Golbat would evolve before getting to Clair. 3:26 Stantler and Dunsparce are literally good in gen 2. Stantler has decent speed, attack and bulk all-around, outright solid stats for Gen 2 standards, while Dunsparce is bulky in general. Dunsparce has subpar attack & slow speed but it can do Paraflinch through Glare + Headbutt. 4:16 Are you really going to completely ignore TMs just to make the movepool issue a lot worse than it actually is in reality? Typhlosion learns Fire Blast and Fire Punch, he also gets Thunder Punch for amazing coverage. Did you Crobat's has Fly which has higher BP than Wing Attack, why is this being left out? Crobat by itself is also extremely fast, has good bulk and has access to status moves like Confuse Ray. Are we REALLY trying to argue that Crobat is somehow not viable in gen 2, which is an absurd claim by itself? Lanturn, being a water type Pokemon, has STAB Surf. He also gets Thunder, Confuse Ray and Thunder Wave. WHY are you judging Lanturn based on Spark when it literally has access to THUNDER and STAB SURF? Umbreon is meant to be a wall, so WHY are we judging it by based on its offensive presence? Heracross's stats are actually so good that he's viable without needing a STAB. He has 125 attack, you are going to deal damage just fine with Strength or especially Return. This isn't Gen 9 competitive, it's Gen 2 in-game. Skarmory gets Fly. Similar to Heracross, Donphan has meaty enough stats to be able to function without a STAB for a while, and besides he can learn Earthquake earlier by finding the TM for it in Victory Road. 5:06 Is... Is Wing Attack not a flying move?... Anyway, finally, Steelix learns Earthquake and Iron Tail, both which hits pretty hard.

[@Mqstodon]

Gen 2 does play itself

[@Shyguymask]

@@Mqstodon Please provide your in-depth explanation on how. Gen 2 has classic EXP. Share, no amie/affection mechanics/boosts, doesn't tell you what moves are super effective and so on. How in the world does gen 2 play itself relative to other Pokemon games?

[@MishKoz]

This is the best comment on the entire comment section and of course it got buried because people don't want to acknowledge that gen 2 was actually good 😔

[@MmeCShadow]

Kanto has tons of problems but I think I can explain why it's not really a challenge until you hit Blue-- it's a victory lap. As you said at the beginning, Gen 2 was a direct sequel to Gen 1, but moreover it was going to be the end of the franchise. Gen 1 was only a modest success when it was released in Japan so they didn't think there were going to be long-term plans for the franchise once production on the sequels started. Keeping this in mind, Kanto (whose ability to fit on the cartridges in the first place is, to my understanding, literally magic) was added as a celebration for the player, to show them how far they had come and give them a final adventure in these lands that had become so familiar. You were meant to just have fun exploring and seeing the differences the three-year time gap had, which is still shown fairly well by most of the Gym Leaders being so much more powerful than when last you fought them (and yourself feeling more powerful for coming back and defeating their 'true' teams). (Also I'm sure it was a nightmare to adjust the team levels given that you can explore Kanto in almost any order so they had to have a flattened level curve since you could fight anybody right after the E4.) This is also why Blue -- that is, your rival from the first game -- and Red -- that is, YOURSELF from the first game -- are the only real challenges; you're coming full circle on your adventure. Defeating your original rival as the final Gym Leader is a mirror of fighting him for the first time in Oak's lab. Meanwhile, Red himself is so much more powerful and intimidating than anybody else (even Blue) because he wasn't just meant to be the bonus boss for Gold/Silver; he was the final boss of the FRANCHISE. Fighting Red was the culmination of your journey across two games and the moment that you effectively surpassed YOURSELF. At the time of release this was absolutely wild, and if you approach the games with the understanding that, in another timeline, this would have been it, it's a pretty fantastic bow to put on the games.

[@sebastiankulche]

I cannot deny that Gen 2 in Kanto is weirdly nostalgic, like it may be one of the first games in history to feel nostalgic by putting elements of the previous games in a relatively cohesive way that feels like a nostalgic expansion. Like a gift from fans. Its very common nowadays, but in 1999 was really a novelty. Unfortunately it doesnt go beyond that and the only reason i can think off is that they run out of time, ideas and hardware.

[@MmeCShadow]

@@sebastiankulche Hardware. Kanto seems to have been planned from the start (or early enough that Johto's level curve was built around being the first half of the game) but they ran out of cartridge space before they had even gotten halfway through Johto. Miyamoto swooped in and developed a new data compression technique that effectively quadrupled available space. Much of that still had to go to just finishing Johto, so Kanto still wound up in the stripped down form that it did.

[@sebastiankulche]

@@MmeCShadow But i also feel they runned out of ideas with Johto since they had to downgrade that region too with the excuse of putting two regions. Is like when Crash Nitro Kart attempted to have also the races of the previous racing game (CTR), but: one, the base game had way less tracks than CTR and two, they didnt even include those tracks.

[@FerminPhotography]

Do a part 2. Part 2 meaning SoulSliver & HeartGold….I will love to hear a breakdown on how it evolved

[@kefkapalazzo1]

It really didn’t outside of movesets

[@lmaolol7702]

@@kefkapalazzo1 - added most of the post-game johto pokemon back to johto, including misdreavus, houndour and larvitar - added the cut safari zone in the best appearance it's ever been - ungimped kanto and added even more than it needed to (cut music tracks, added more trainers) - fixed the trainer levels and teams in kanto - added the platinum battle frontier - combined many crystal features seamlessly with the base games, such as eusine, dragon's den, and the legendary beast hunt - added tons of brand new features, such as gym/league rematches for ALL 16 GYM LEADERS and elite four, following pokemon, the pokeathlon and whole ass brand new routes, because why not - the safari zone, swarms, and radio sounds allow you to catch a load of hoenn/sinnoh pokemon "HURR DURR HGSS DIDN'T FIX ANY OF GEN 2'S FLAWS HURRRRR"

[@koruoshouji9960]

@@lmaolol7702 then explain why the level scale in HG/SS still sucked

[@kefkapalazzo1]

@@lmaolol7702 thanks for proving my point

[@lmaolol7702]

@@kefkapalazzo1 i disproved your point, which was that hgss didn't fix anything outside of movesets.

[@spikeyvods379]

super keen to see your romhack develop. I played gen 2 for the first time last year and ran into a lot of the issues you discussed here. I'd love to see what you do with it

[@TheGuyWhoIsSitting]

“Espeon doesn’t appear in Johto” except for that whole thing with the Kimono sisters. One of them has one. But honestly this video is spot on. Gen 2 feels like it could have used a few QOL improvements. I think they were also sorely limited in the fact that without major code rewrites they were limited to 255 total Pokémon slots. So even if they utilized all of them they still would have only had three more possible (eggs are technically one of the slots, 0 is the ? Unseen graphic/placeholder in the Pokédex) I’m sure someone who is a wizard at gameboy programming could make a game with many more Pokémon but I don’t know how feasible that would be without completely remaking the entire game and taking that into account.

[@sageoverheaven]

There are fan ROM Hacks that run on newly coded engines. There's way more than 255 in a lot of them.

[@EmeralBookwise]

I mean, the was never that they had a limited number of new Pokémon they could add. The problem was that they "wasted" a lot of those slots one new Pokémon that were weaker than the old ones.

[@sebastiankulche]

Arent some of the romhacks compatible with the OG hardware? Is clearly that with Gen 2 they wasted so much time by adding unnecesary things, so if they didnt had space is just the developers fault.

[@99suchis47]

The level curve and the poor pokemon choices for the routes combined are the factors that ruin this game. Honestly, I'd rather play a newer gen, maybe with a nuzlocke if difficulty is the probl rather than gen 2. Simply boaring and tedious

[@ScourgeBladeZelda]

Truly the generation of Pokemon that needs fixing the most. I've never really enjoyed the Johto games or it's remakes much. I really want to like Gen 2 but I just can't. As you've stated the level curve is terrible, Pokemon roster and their movesets are way too limited, story is super boring, and the bosses Pokemon teams are unmemorable and don't make a lot of sense. those are the big objective problems but in addition to that I just don't like Johto much as a region. None of it is really very memorable to me besides Blackthorn and the areas around it, Ecruteak, and Goldenrod. Maybe the Lake of Rage as well but that's more so what happens in it and not the area itself. Most of Kanto had cool set pieces to set them apart but Johto is just so boring in comparison in my opinion. Revisiting Kanto is what I look forward to the most cause I wanna see how everything has changed and while I agree there should've been a little more to it, it's more interesting than Johto to me. Really looking forward to playing this romhack in hopes that it can change my perspective on Johto a bit.

[@sebastiankulche]

X2 at everything. You took my words of my mouth. I would also add is probably the most gimmicky Gen of all, and not in a good way. The day and night with its weekend cycle which stricts game events or Pokemon, the two mandatory regions, the roaming Pokemon, almost everything in this Gen wastes the player time in a way i never seen in a game like ever, minus Donkey Kong 64.

[@tpsam]

As a day 1 old veteran who played most games Up until gen 5 I had one way of understanding and appreciating Pokémon But gen 6 over time converted me into a new kind of fan Ever since I understood gen 2 is the worst gen The conversion was Normally I thought Pokémon is about adventure epic moments legends lore and exploration It's about the legendary tale of my character climbing to the top of the Pokémon world Gen 6 taught me a new way to appreciate Pokémon more in an animal crossing way Chill friendship vacations memories nostalgia costumization interactions This is my new mood and gen 6 is my new favourite gen and gen 2 dropped dead last

[@TotallyCluelessGamer]

Sooo... by understanding Pokemon as a series about friendship and chill vibes the first game to focus on friendship, kindness(the story is all about you doing small acts of kindness as you travel around), and chill vibes somehow becomes the worst? Please elaborate further my dude, because your logic makes no sense. Generation 2 doesn't rely on large and epic moments, its entire story is about small acts of kindness and favors you do as you wander about the region, it introduced the ability to become friends with every random trainer you meet, and even your rival's whole storyline is about embracing a more kind and compassionate attitude. Edit: Having given it some more thought even the way events cycle day by day encourages that same Animal Crossing-esque playstyle of checking in once a day during a relatively brief play-session to see what's up.

[@lmaolol7702]

this is the most brain dead take i've seen all week, well done

[@sebastiankulche]

​​​@@TotallyCluelessGamerI feel like the game however doesnt exploit any of that. Yeah, you do small quests while youre exploring the world, but nothing feels really satisfying because besides very few moments the game doesnt really add too much in those scenes to make them memorable. Some of them also just feel filler like giving berries to miltank.

[@dienercontent6872]

I owned silver and played through it several times, and I had ZERO idea that there was post game content for the rival. Did NOT know that.

[@reillywalker195]

I only knew about it because I stumbled on it by accident.

[@likenem]

How come you didn't mention any of the game mechanic improvements in GEN 2. The reason why Gen 2 was always considered the best was because of the massive amount of quality of life improvements. Ruby and Sapphire is missing some of the polish that was in Crystal. The pop up of what town you are in, the animation a pokemon makes when entering battle and Crystal had battle tower. Also Gen 2 is the only gen where you trade between two generations.

[@TheNadroj10]

Exactly dude is even pushing his own rom hack and admitted this video was made just to hype that up

[@FrankUnderwoood]

@@lmaolol7702 That doesn't make sense imo. No matter what the people say, Gen 2 games and their remakes will always be considered as the best/one of the best games in the series by the majority of fanbase. It's important to talk about their flaws too, because unfortunately those games aren't without flaws, but I have a feeling that some people are trying to be too controversial for absolutely no reason. Despite their flaws, Gen 2 games are still amazing no matter what, and those new, lazy cash grabs aren't even coming close.

[@mortomultiverse8778]

@@lmaolol7702 Keep believing the nonesensical conspiracy theory that you want, that doesn't eliminate the glaring flaws of gen 2 games.

[@SparkstarScope]

Jesus christ you people will go LENGTHS to defend this flawed generation, even through the glaring issues it has.

[@FrankUnderwoood]

@@SparkstarScope What are you talking about? Of course the Gen 2 HAS its own flaws. Nobody denies that. But even with those flaws it's considered a fan favorite by the majority of the fanbase and you can't deny that. Besides, every Pokemon gen has its own problems, and it really comes down to personal preference at this point.

[@crispymattastic]

I recently just played through Soulsilver and you pretty much nailed all the problems this gen had , I reached the elite 4 at around lv 42 then had to spend a week grinding against them only managing to beat lance with a lv 46 lapras being very lucky with blizzard.

[@jackkingsman2758]

That man speaks the truth. Gen 2 always was just a... lore? generation. It feels like they wanted to round out Pokemon as a franchise not really make a big step forward. Spoiler alert: That was the whole point but that didn't age well

[@TotallyCluelessGamer]

It really comes down to what you value most in your games. If what you're looking for is an adventure through an atmospheric and living region with some magic animal best friends then Gen 2 is top of the line. However if what you're here for are battles and a dramatic save-the-world style story, then you'd be best served pretending basically nothing prior to Gen 3 existed.

[@sebastiankulche]

​@@TotallyCluelessGamerHonestly, i think PMD does a way better job at that.

[@pride_mitochondria3921]

​@@sebastiankulche At adventuring and exploration? No, not really. As far as story goes? 110%, best stories in Pokémon.

[@rwg6357]

Gen 2 problems are just a continuation of Gen 1's problems they are just more glaring cause Johto isn't really going for the same RPG battle progression style of Kanto focusing more on the daily events. Johto is designed so you can hit your daily tasks not grind your way to a level cap.

[@sebastiankulche]

I would say both Gen 1 and Gen 2 problems goes for different directions instead of being "a continuation", but i agree with the rest.

[@ahmadayoub94]

The thing about the Team Rocket story in gen 2, is you need the Celebi event to go back in time to understand and finish the story line. Which is a shame because it was mostly never accessible by anyone at the time. This is true at least in the remakes.

[@ladyriethegoldendelmo5441]

Yea at least we got that in crystal 3ds version and the gts ball lol

[@MrSamBerrett1]

I have to agree about the move pools. God, I hate Pokemon that don't learn moves of their own type

[@justinterry2926]

Gen 2 can't even stand on its own It needs Kanto

[@CEDL0W]

Well it was a sequel to Gen 1. Having Kanto there makes sense. But if Gen 2 was created like a modern pokemon generation then I’m certain Johto would be fine on its own. However I don’t think it would’ve gone over well. The johto games being sequels was the right move at the time.

[@sebastiankulche]

I still would have preferred however that GSC didnt have Kanto at all, even as small as it can be, the game wouldnt be ridiculous padded.

[@yolohernadez2991]

I remember gen 2 people gave gen 4 main line games, some hate. But looking at the games Gen 4 diamond,pearl, and platinum, they are way better than gen 2.

[@Lilliaace]

The stats are fine for story mode. Yall gotta remember that if you wanted to fight your friend, you needed a cable to connect to your devices. A huge reason (aside from many having this geberation being their starter generation) why people love these games IS because of the MASSIVE improvement of overall life to the games (crystal having the first female protagonist, the idea of how much you love your pokemon can help them evolve, eggs, shinies, a day/night cycle, adding a full 8-bit color spectrum as opposed to a relatively limited color palette of gen 1, some useful trade pokemon in the games including the onyx and Spearow you can grab easily, enjoyable starters, rival doesnt bug the hell out of you, interesting legendaries where 1 of the 2 birds is found at level 70, chasing the legendary dogs, etc.). Yes, the level grind is annoying. However, EVERY poke game had this problem really until b/w/b2/w2 and x/y. Before these games, all of the trainer battles and wild poke didn't really keep up with you. The core lore and story across the games is actually captivating. The unknown ruins. The bell sprout tower philosophy. Morty's entire town (kimono sisters, the legendary dogs, Mortys invovlement, the history of the burnt towers, etc.). Helping out the amphoras at the light tower. The actual personalities of the gym leaders and unique aesthetic of the towns (let me tell you - so many gyms and towns basically just all blend together in later games). Claire basically being a class A brat about you beating her and having to prove your worth in the dragon's den.

[@cleverman383]

Yes! I played the latest games, and Paldea is such a lifeless region. The entire map just blends together for me. I can't think of any lore for any of the areas or towns except one town is obsessed with Sunflora because... they just are? Even Gen 1 had iconic locations like Lavender Town, so what happened?

[@deleteduser122]

The problem with johto is that its feel like an expansion more than a game, because of the limitations of that time i have no doubt if they would make johto with better technology it probably would be the best region (a lot of mons doesn't get evolutions until next gens)

[@sebastiankulche]

Many games on the past can feel like an expansion, like Doom 2, Sonic 2 and 3, Crash 2 and 3, Spyro 2 and 3, Banjo Tooie, NFS High Stakes, etc, but what i like to say for those cases: "if isnt broken dont fix it". Gen 2 unfortunately introduces many problems on its own and there still some jank of Gen 1 that needed to be fixed.

[@parttimesaint3165]

This sounds sick! My first cartridge was Silver. I remember sitting in the car trying to see where I was going in Ilex Forest. I'm at home in Johto. It's my comfort region. I stopped at 4 because the rival made me irrationally angry. Johto is where it's at. Seeing all these issues laid out, I can understand why it's bad. Just like you, I just have to love it though. It's not the first I played but it's the first I owned. Getting a fix for the issues sounds mad good. I can't wait to play through an improved version, finding Johto mons everywhere and fighting against gym leaders who have Johto mons. Are you adding quality-of-life upgrades to overworld travel as well?

[@RedDragonForce2]

This is why I like Let’s Go better than HGSS, because it’s Kanto that’s not stripped down to a skeleton of its former self.

[@sebastiankulche]

I also think the FRLG remake and the original 1996 are better. Kanto itself was a good made region design wise, with enough breathing room, complemented with a good difficult curve and interesting locations. Johto in comparison everything is very cramped.