Laserburn: Warhammer 40,000's Curious Ancestor - Codex Compliant

Long before Warhammer 40,000 there was Laserburn, a game containing a lot of things you may recognise.
Thanks to Longfang!
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[@hansgruber3064]

As A North Africa Muslim I find it highly offensive that you called a Dreadnought a “kind of boat”. It’s A SHIP! YE LILY-LIVERED LAND LOVERS!

[@zedmercury2605]

@@sturat5166 yeah he got me so *TRIGGERED* for calling them LOVERS, GAWD!

[@madzen112]

You're as North African as my hamster

[@LinkiePup]

Arr, it do be me Matey.

[@AlexanderDunn-cj5me]

Can I be seamen stainnes

[@21526]

The relationship between the ssithks and the Froog. A race of somewhat cowardly ranged specialists in a alliance of convenience with a race of primitive warriors who dislike laser weapons is pretty reminiscent of the Tau and the Kroot.

[@GreatgoatonFire]

I could see that. Given the frog connection I could see it being a riff on England and France. Spent centuries fighting each other but ended up as allies in their arguably most important wars.

[@adog6495]

For the greater good

[@loadeddice4696]

It's definitely similar, but I think the common ancestor is European colonial armies and their native auxiliary units. So the Tau themselves are British or French or Spanish regiments, and the Kroot are the equivalent of Gurkhas or North African scout units or what have you.

[@agentorangecb1]

The Tau and Kroot are reminiscent of this, not vice versa

[@GreatgoatonFire]

Return of the respectful request that you cover GORKAMORKA.

[@wolfgangrecordings]

i scrolled down to type precisely that, then saw this comment

[@GreatgoatonFire]

@@wolfgangrecordings ahh a fellow scollar of scrap. Remember to pick your mandatory complementary knuckle dusters on your way to the bar.

[@justinphillipsart]

This needs to happen ASAP! What could be more fitting to finish the year of 2020 than MAD MAX with ORKS?

[@wescha]

The Best gw game ever released

[@GreatgoatonFire]

@@wescha The orkies at the very least.

[@Starman_Dx]

Wait, frog people hate melee, love shootie and are friends with lizard folk who love melee and hate shootie... Hmm......

[@watchm4ker]

Clearly, they learned to stop hating everything that wasn't them. You know. *For the Greater Good.*

[@jessebowen2651]

"An-Suul, Lord of Chaos and Demon of Lead" absolutely killed me

[@thomasrevill7723]

"Warty Thou" continues to be the best shorthand name ever invented. Praise be to Rick Priestley, in his infinite wisdom.

[@5xg378]

I prefer Warty Forty, but idk where i got that one from.

[@wolfgangrecordings]

@@5xg378 they mentioned it in the same episode as warty thou, the rogue trader vid i think

[@zamnodorszk7898]

"We're no strangers to loooooove". Wait, wrong Rick

[@thomasrevill7723]

@@5xg378 Warty Forty is pretty solid too

[@MasterKerfuffle]

I was able to guess it would be "enemy unknown" just from the incredibly blurry cover art, and I am quite chuffed. finally, my intimate knowledge of obtuse 90s computer games is coming in handy.

[@jamescorrall6535]

I was kinda unnerved that I was able to get that immediately :-p

[@kayjohnston1132]

Same :)

[@watchm4ker]

I knew about Laser Squad as X-Com's predecessor, but not it's connection to Laserburn. Obvious, in hindsight.

[@MasterShake9000]

“...no actual Malice was involved...” *laughs in Malal*

[@ala5530]

Just a note- Brian Ansell is in fact a canon minor Chaos God: along with Frank Frazetta and Michael Moorcock, they were immortalised as Anns'll, MorrK'ck and Fra'Zettar, the Chaos gods of Spiky Bitz

[@danieldicicco3605]

ewwww Spikey Bits

[@abdulhammouda4884]

I'm half Arab and was brought up in the 80s and early 90s in the UK and can absalutly confirm the whole Muslim religion was really a bi word for mystic, foreign and other, they were hitting familiar tropes and it was a veery different time I'd not overthink it at all. Great vid!

[@VioletGerm]

I definitely haven't read that as "laserbum" the first time...

[@lonecolamarine]

lemmie guess "Laser-bum" right? xD

[@proto303]

some keming problems I see

[@soupalex]

laserbum… i think that was touted as a competitor to the then-new sony/phillips Compact Disc format? like betamax, it lost the format wars despite higher fidelity due to sony/phillips greater market penetration (plus consumers didn't know how to use it. put it in your trousers? a nappy? does it need cleaning every time you eject a disc from the slot?)

[@Doomsfist]

This came out 4 days after my birthday so im considering it a birthday present, and it is one of the best ones I have received this year.

[@SnipeandWib]

Happy belated birthday! And thanks again for the comment that lead to all this :)

[@Longfang91]

Happy birthday!

[@Doomsfist]

@@SnipeandWib thank you!

[@Doomsfist]

@@Longfang91 thanks

[@ej.crusing6130]

I’m loving these “Snipe Aside” moments. They are random, non sensible and funny

[@ArchArturo]

“Ok I have this idea for a WW2 skirmish game with small quantities of minis... It involves Power Armor”

[@spanishoctagon]

Learning about Confrontation has answered a completely trivial but also perplexing mystery for me! In the very early 90's my older brother had been making a video game on his Amiga he said was set in Necromunda, but he lost interest in GW stuff in about 1991/92. With all the talk about Necromunda recently I heard that the original came out in 1995, so I thought that I must have remembered incorrectly as the dates don't line up. However I remember he had that exact issue of White Dwarf as I used to stare at the cover for hours, so now I know what he was referring to. Sorry for my ramble!

[@springheeledjackofthegurdi2117]

did he ever finish making the game?

[@biggusdickus841]

5:30 "If he doesn't break free, tough shit" Writing like this is just the cherry on top of everything from this era of tabletop games.

[@majortom7186]

I was 9 when I got Laserburn. That was an actual thing that got people to play the game.

[@Donnerbalken28]

Kind of amazing that some of this writing persisted well into the 90s in the Video Game world, with games like Doom (which insults you in this way everytime you want to quit) or Duke Nukem.

[@rastamann2009]

@@Donnerbalken28 it was a time when people weren’t offended by anything and everything. Pretty epic

[@hadrien5684]

@@rastamann2009 Dude Nobody gets offended by that Why do you even have to bring that up, you're 11

[@rastamann2009]

@@hadrien5684 a little over 11, and I bring it up because the writing style in the books would pretty much be out if they were written today, which reflects a mentality of people being all 11 nowadays

[@dashiellgillingham4579]

16:07 is the exact moment my head exploded. The short list of every single game I played throughout my childhood are all descended from Laserburn. WH40k tabletop, WH40k: Space Marine, WH40k Dawn of War 2, Risk: Legacy (by way of obvious heavy 40k influence), & Xcom: Enemy Unknown.

[@harbl99]

2:23 -- Aaaaah. Now I see where the combat rules for _Confrontation_ (proto-Necromunda) came from. Using Laserburn to fill in the gaps of the never-completed Confrontation rules is left as an exercise to the... an exercise to the re-... Oh god, I'm gonna do an archaic rules exegesis! 14:30 -- Heh. Called it.

[@Mman1312]

I would love to see a codex compliant episode on the development of Genestealers in 40k and their eventual integration into the Tyranids as a whole. Maybe with some looks at the older Space Hulk models so Wib has an excuse to paint more classic models 😅

[@jakerubino3233]

Says “Boats” and immediately has the whole Royal Navy cursing “They’re Ships ffs” 🤣

[@Synthonym]

I literally exclaimed "SHIPS, DAMNIT, SHIPS!"

[@mindwarp42]

And not just any ships, a revolutionary (at the time) type of battleship that... hmmm, who built the first one that gave that general type their name worldwide? Oh, yeah, the (British) Royal Navy! (Yes, I'm aware the RN has used that name multiple times now, but the 1906 one is the best known and is the one pictured in the video - yes, this naval history fan actually double checked, because I'm a geek.)

[@jakerubino3233]

@@mindwarp42 not sure this has anything to do with my comment, but, whatever floats ya boat 🤣

[@mindwarp42]

@@jakerubino3233 More just clarification on your "joke", put in quotes because I'm pretty sure the RN (and naval history geeks) would be doing just what you said, especially with HMS Dreadnaught's place in history. I know my geek self did. 😉🤣

[@jakerubino3233]

@@mindwarp42 👌🏻

[@Donnerbalken28]

"Allah, Lord of the fiery hells" might be a bit too on-the-nose.

[@theoriginalcheebamech]

Laser should always have an 's', it's an acronym: Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation, no zeds

[@doorstopper674]

Labseor

[@thomasrevill7723]

"Ztimulated"

[@lucasahumada6913]

As an american I have never seen nor have myself laser spelled with a z

[@ArkadiBolschek]

Who even writes laser with a z?

[@mrheisenberg83]

@@ArkadiBolschek Isn't that more of a 90s thing, writing stuff with a z instead of an s just to be "cool"/"xtreme"?

[@vaniellys]

The way Snipe says "deep dive" in the beginning is oddly satisfying to listen. But then again, I just like both their voices.

[@Axquirix]

The way she deliverred it makes me wonder if they've been playing Deep Rock Galactic. Which would be sort of fitting, considering it's basically a game about being a Squat.

[@MrLC-cd8ms]

This is just the dark age of technology

[@ackbarreserve]

1) Great video, very interesting. 2) you both are adorable and inspirational. 3) damn, now I want an X-COM like game with 40K properties in it. Again.

[@Ackthrice]

Mechanicus. It's not as intricate as xcom but its pretty satisfying and has the two best 40k factions as its basis

[@matthewcampbell3146]

If you want a table top version KillTeam is pretty much X-Com. In the sense that you’ll play a campaign, level a character to max, then have them die to a tau drone right beofre the last game. Danm it Rocket-Boy you where taken too soon

[@caos1925]

When I saw the xenological difference chart, my first thoguht was: "Does this also mean they can interbreed?" For science of course!

[@paulfedorenko2301]

LASER. Acronym - Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. It's a flipping S. These Codex Compliant videos are really well done.

[@CthulhusDream]

These are my fave Warhammer content videos!

[@felis1977]

That was interesting. Never heard of Laserburn before. What's even more interesting is that although one of you have the entire army of them you never in all those years made an episode about Codex Tyranids ;) Codex: Tyranids next plz :)

[@broseffman]

Remember in the first book of The Horus Heresy when the Luna Wolves had to conquer a human planet named "Terra" that was also led by a figure calling himself "The Emperor"? *HRMMMMMMMMM.*

[@AAhmou]

Wait a sec...

[@RustBot42]

Oh shit

[@Mechabang]

Horus did nothing wrong.

[@BenCDBrown]

Laser is spelled the same in the US, it's an acronym for Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation.

[@BiodegradableYTP]

I adore the free-form, sketchy art in these books. Awesome stark contrast, loose scribbley lines and cross-hatching is my jam, fam! Anyways, another lovely video guys. :^)

[@Ralndrath]

I'm a pretty edgy boi but the description of the terrorist faction took me aback...

[@tiredtgirl]

Me too.

[@dashiellgillingham4579]

Learning about literary influences will do that to you.

[@ashley-r-pollard]

Awesome. Back then I worked at Warlord Games, not that Warlord Games, but a small shop in Southend-on-Sea owned by Bill & Pat Forster. We sold a lot of Laserburn miniatures, and I can attest that most of the vehicles were of variable quality. The exceptions being the helicopter and smaller vehicles. The modular APC tank vehicles with tracks, hover, or wheeled chassis were absolute shite. By that I mean, they looked like something knocked together on the fly by mad mechanics with skills to bash materials together. That might rock your boat. I'm old enough to have met the guys who founded GW before they were famous, because back then the wargame hobby was tiny by comparison, and SF&F wargaming a fringe interest within historical wargaming, looked down upon by the serious wargame enthusiasts. The good old days, allegedly.

[@liamk.6389]

I feel that the elephant in the room of this video is the real og of ogs: Dune

[@anthonycopsey5572]

It's the missing link between Dune and 40k

[@canegang]

This takes me back to the 1980’s great times in Robs garage with Steve and Hamish....thankyou

[@thegremlin3194]

Laser burn and Imperial commander was my first war-game sets . Laser burn could be fiddly but Imperial Commander was a great large scale combat set and still would hold its own against modern sets . Laser burn would use about 20 figures where Imperial commander would play well with 100 figures a side

[@ArkadiBolschek]

1:21 Why do I get the feeling that one of these Laserburn Imperial Troopers is _totally_ the one protrayed in the original Rogue Trader book on pages 164-165

[@lordvermintide4441]

Not sure how I feel now the mystery of another KZbinr's age is revealed, but I'm glad this one is older than me as opposed to the ever increasing number of younger people I find myself listening to.

[@pierceprzybyla1275]

Laserburn takes place during the dark age of technology in my eyes

[@pforson]

Just to complete the circle: Laser Squad was developed not only by Ian Terry, but also by Julian Gollop, who additionally developed Chaos: The Battle of Wizards - which was published by Games Workshop! Yes, GW used to publish computer games.

[@SerpentineDivine]

Someday, even though it's not directly wargames but in a similar vein, it'd be great if you gave a runover of some of the 2000AD comics and how at least one of them has more than a passing resemblance to a lot of aspects of 40K despite starting a few years prior to 1st edition - Nemesis the Warlock being that namesake.

[@akaken23]

Be pure, be vigilant, behave!

[@madquest8]

Laserburn is the best set of sci fi skirmish rules ever written. It's completely unplayable with more than about 3 figures each side, but absolutely fantastic!

[@GreatgoatonFire]

That was some military grade YIKES.

[@juanpablomontalvo4715]

“Allah: lord of the firey hells” Jesus “Black and east asians from the dark worlds” Just... fuck dude

[@wolfgangrecordings]

@@juanpablomontalvo4715 the near east isn't east asia, it's the near east

[@chadnine3432]

@@juanpablomontalvo4715 I laughed.

[@MajorGeneralVeers]

@@juanpablomontalvo4715 Well, the Middle East is pretty firey (as in hot as balls) and is hell to live in (if you're a woman or servant).

[@zachscarbrough2727]

That had me tugging at my collar. Jesus H. Christ. ('o_o)

[@anotherzingbo]

That was really enjoyable from beginning to end! I remember reading the Confrontation rules in White Dwarf, and being perplexed when they just stopped, without seeming to be complete. Thanks for explaining that! Also I remember the Confrontation rules seeming to be very much on the complex side, so if they were the Laserburn rules but better explained, I think I'll steer clear of getting a copy of Laserburn for myself!

[@nikital.6523]

Yes, I called that European UFO Defence cover-art! It's literally burned into my brain. I think, I need a doctor.

[@Blandco]

I have never played Warhammer 40K but these videos are endlessly entertaining to watch. Thanks Snipe and Wib!

[@TheGrandOracle]

I can’t help but see a mandalorian helmet on the dudes pauldron on the cover

[@TheLodgePainting]

I completed the ritual detailed at the end of this video and to my surprise Brian did appear! We got absolutely smashed.

[@MarneusAndMilkyBlood]

Amazing deep-dive, plus it's nice that this system is still distributed and minis are still available, makes me more likely to give it a go, if only because I'm obsessed with smaller scale than 28mm these days.

[@namefinder]

I can't stop figuring out what XCOM ENEMY UNKNOWN is.

[@commanderboreale7267]

You’re doing the emperor’s work.

[@fundude365]

5:30 I love the Power Glove. It's so bad.

[@malis9045]

ohhh! it's the one!!!! from the podcast!!! was really hyped for that one, great video

[@EdAllen]

You missed one beat, the Citadel Spacefarers 25mm miniatures that were depicted in many of the illustrations in Laserburn. If you played Laserburn in 25mm, those were the main figures.

[@WhatHoSnorkers]

What a fantastic video that brought back lots of memories of adverts for Laserburn miniatures in White Dwarf all the way up to Confrontation, so much amazing lore. Laser Squad! X-Com! Marvellous!

[@rey-o]

I had no idea about this, love learning about all the connective tissue between different media

[@ravensroost3224]

Very interesting, always a delight when you two shine a light on these unusual things from way back when! Also, Longfang still has a great voice, hope you get an excuse to get him to do more voice work for you!

[@Longfang91]

You are too kind! Thank you.

[@Based_Lord_Humongous]

15mm Sci Fi is the best! The guys from Alternate Armies are great dudes and their products are great too. I hear Patrol Angis is what Warhammer should be, bit haven't tried it.

[@jothewerewolf]

You guys are my "Life is too hard and I need familiarity" comfort content. Thank you.

[@alexvaraderey]

If it's the game that i remember, a friend of mine had this and half a dozen of us played it in about 1984 or 1985 (yeah, i'm old.) We were a group of mercenaries storming the throneroom to kill the emperor and fought the guards. If you don't mind a bit of book-keeping, it was an enjoyable couple of hours. If you were hit, damage was specifically to parts of the body and is cumulative, , so if you don''t die, then you end up with something like - light wound left leg, heavy wound right leg, unable to use left arm, light wound right arm. Makes me wonder if that was an influence for the damage in Adeptus Titanicus.

[@dashiellgillingham4579]

It sounds very similar to Battletech’s mech damage system.

[@Rob-nq6br]

Have you guys ever thought about doing a video on Spacefarers since it was kinda (another one of) the real precursor to 40K? (Love these videos!)

[@Del_S]

Snipe and Wib corpsing? SEND FOR THE MAN!

[@clockmonkey]

In the early 1970s around 1974 I played SF games using a set of rules called "Starguard" which were not a bad set of skirmish rules. The figures they were designed for were imported from America and crazy expensive so used a mix of citadel. minifigs, Hincliffe and other oddments to fight small table top battles. Truth to tell gaming is just two friends bickering over a game of dice and it worked as well as any other set of rules I've played with ever since! Starguard is still going. Laser Squad was one of the best games ever.

[@madzen112]

I bet all the original GW crew met at a Motörhead concert and passed time before concert with a game of dice

[@Gorbz]

Speaking of old games, I was rumaging around the other day and found an imperial guard token from Armageddon. Brings back memories of arguing with my brother over what was more powerful - a gargants mob, or a titan legion.

[@zhouenlai2569]

Excellent video, I did not know any of that; I love the old Brian Ansell pic with the mullet; it´s from "Warhammer Armies" and has all the glory of 80s you could wish for.

[@joshuafranco9148]

Another brilliant video. Thanks as always.

[@maxcarrizales5575]

you both bring so much joy to my day!

[@laurencepenfold]

Laserburn was my pocket-money game. I still have my minis. The Rebel trikes were awesome.

[@teecefamilykent]

That laugh at the end....best video yet ya cheeky pair!

[@MrHP25]

Can't wait to see those lovely Laserburn minis in more loving detail on Wib's channel.

[@mind_onion]

The 40k specialist game "Inquisitor" clearly has some laserburn dna, the percentile dice, the hit location stuff, the size of the engagements, it sounds very very similar. I never played necromunda, so maybe its shared between the two games.

[@robin_hood7131]

Hi Both. It recently dawned on me that (I think) the oldest GW rules with attached GW miniature line was Star Trek The Motion Picture, Rules For Adventures.... released in 1979 in WD 18.

[@Avenger85438]

I really want to see more of that artwork or even updated. It might just be my love for classic science fantasy, or perhaps it's the novelty of seeing this Proto-40k verse? All I know for certain is I want more.

[@vernonjennings5921]

Sweet video. Thanks for sharing!

[@operaghost21]

Oh wow, you're right. Never heard of this. Awesome vid as always!

[@principetnomusic]

Great, now I want to make Arabic-themed Sisters of Battle

[@honda6353]

Brides of Jihad.

[@benmatthews9176]

5:58 new army??? If so looking forward to the wib paints large boy middle boy and little boys

[@SnipeandWib]

Oh those are super old, they're from my homebrew Deathwing army from late 5th edition :)

[@GazpachoTabletop]

Sitting in my bed and I literally raised my eyebrows at the use of a penny as a base. How dare. Also love the giggle at the end

[@SnakeWorksStudio]

Superb video! I’m inspired to have a go at this game now!

[@philiphockenbury6563]

This is awesome. I also wasn’t expecting the X-com.

[@paulbrozyna3006]

Laserburn and Confrontation also bled into Inquisitor. The most obvious of this for me is the artwork style for explaining how cover rules worked.

[@Flupp1]

i just had a giant wtf moment, i played laser squad as a little fluppling, i never remembered its name, but thats it, no doubt, oof, i, searched for it but you can imagin how hard it is to find something like that without the name

[@ThatGuyW3s]

Oh my god yes, so happy to find someone else who knows QfG!

[@Ayeshteni]

Loved Confrontation, still do. I have a word doc somewhere on the computer with additional rules I've made for campaign rules, gang recruiting, ganger improvement, mutations for mutant gangs, psychic rules (stolen from 1st ed Space Hulk and currently incomplete). Also have a list of to-do's. I'll finish it eventually.

[@TruculentSheep]

I have to say, if it makes you a bit of a prat now, it made you a prat in 1983. There's whole libraries of theses, monographs and conference proceedings just waiting to be written on the politics of 40k, and its antecedents.

[@Landmassorussia]

The Froog are just Frenchmen

[@pendantblade6361]

You two deserves ten times the subs.

[@gabrelicious6553]

Now the redemptionists in necromunda feel weird lol

[@moghobbystuff]

that was interesting, thanks! certainly took me back.. lived a stones throw from TTG as a teen so had a lot of the A5 cardbound rulesets.. still have a original laserburn rulebook and a bunch of figs somewhere.. we played it a bit in the 80s, and despite it being less complicated and chart heavy than other rulesets at the time (!) .. still found it a little impenetrable :-) now.. where are those figures...

[@grahamcarpenter5135]

"So what's the lore for this game?" "There's a group called the Imperium." "Yeah?" "Yup. They have a god-emperor, they're hyper authoritarian and ultra religious." "Ok, makes sense as a 40k precursor game. So are the bad guys Chaos Space Marines or something?" "No, THEY'RE AN ARMY OF AFRICAN SPACE MUSLIMS" "What the fuck!?"

[@gigaflynn_]

Holy crap I just realized one of your patrons is Aaron D-B! You know you've made it as a 40k channel when... congrats guys!

[@euansmith3699]

Ah, the grim-dark future of the past. That cover for Confrontation is one of my favourite bits of "40k" artwork. A game based around a few Space Marines fighting hordes of Underhivers could be a lot of fun.

[@JayAndNightASMR]

Looks really interesting

[@zachscarbrough2727]

5:57 Ok, am I the only one who thinks the mini Dreadnought looks just so hilarious/adorable next to the more modern Dreadnoughts? It's just so tiny next to them. I just have this mental image of the mini-dread hiding behind its' huge badass brother while fighting enemies.

[@majortom7186]

Worth noting, the Red Redemption made it into Warhammer Fantasy too, and they really weren't any less questionable.

[@MrSafior]

Explain please.

[@SloveneAnon]

@@MrSafior In the 80s Citadel had a series of miniatures called Regiments of Renown. Each unit would come with its own small lore blurb and those were the first descriptions of the Warhammer Fantasy universe. In 1985 the Disciples of the Red Redemption appeared as such a RoR. www.solegends.com/citrr/1rr16redemption/index.htm

[@aidandegg4176]

great video, always good to see where it started and how it's evolved. As good as 40k setting is, I prefer the sandbox approach rather than being a stickler to any prescribed "This is the one true way" which is what it was always meant to be - love RT for that. I knew of Laserburn but never got to look at it so this is ace.

[@loathesome_pilk_drinker]

Great video guys! Thank you. :D