So... Were Trial Chambers a Success?

[@Trident_Gaming03]

I've been running an experiment where I spend half an hour is the trial chambers, and then half an hour in general deepslate caves. I have found that, while you get a fraction of the diamonds, the VALUE of what you get in the trial chambers is, like, 4x times that of standard mining, even if you factor in finding a mineshaft. If you want diamonds and only diamonds, go mining, however if you're on an SMP selling rare or bulk items, in superflat, collecting everything, or just simply want a variety of loot, the trial chambers are unparalleled in what you get and it's not even close. You also still get enough diamonds to replace a pickaxe or two.

[@Waitermelonyoutube]

Ok

[@ineophobe]

how insightful

[@Goomba456]

another thing to note about the chambers is that a full chamber run will provide a crazy amount of experience to scoop up, so it's a good way to make exp without having to sit in a spawner farm afk for ages

[@Zorooooooooooooooooooooooooooo]

Half an hour is nothing.

[@Thebenjiball0]

​@@Zorooooooooooooooooooooooooooosilence nerd

[@tehbeard]

1.21 feels like a solid update. But it still follows the Mojang trappings of just layering systems on top of the game. I have no confidence in the vaults being expanded to other structures beyond maybe one new one.

[@Borapaws]

kingbdogz has confirmed that they hope for vaults to address the issues in other structures like elytras and temples but those will likely need to see elaborate redesigns to both make the experience to their modern standard and work in a way to gather keys because trial spawners likely wont appear elsewhere but vaults are just called vaults

[@alessandrosilvafilho8527]

Trial spawners, end spawners, desert spawners, fortress spawners, bastion spawners, jungle spawners, monument spawners, ancient spawners, shaft spawners...​@Borapaws

[@nicholasfitzgerald5482]

It doesn't seem like they're going to retrofit vaults into previous structures. And I hope they rename them to trial vaults so that they aren't just specific to trial chambers.

[@gaminggeckos4388]

They really hate messing with old structures. Just look at how they’ve ignored the dungeon and the Nether fortress.

[@MyNameIsBhex]

​@@gaminggeckos4388 that's because old structures are hard-coded and they would need to spend time converting them to dynamic structures that use Jigsaws/etc. At the moment the higher ups are deciding that adding new content is more important than flattening old content. It seems they only flatten things when it is directly relevant to new content

[@tuopi27]

i always felt that it would be fine if the vault had infinite uses, but it simply had a cooldown per player

[@Goomba456]

i imagine the reason why they went against this is to prevent some kind of AFK vault opening farm that cycles you through a bunch of them, effectively making farmable raw diamonds. I guess you could just crank the time for cooldown to a nunber too high to be worth it

[@lukahumar1371]

It would be cool if each use of the vault by a player also reduced drop rates of certain rarities of items, or at least each vault can only give you one of each rare or uncommon loot, but common loot is infinite. Also a long cooldown between each opening that makes AFK-farming the vaults pointlessly inefficient.

[@HuneeBruh]

I think it should give you better stuff the longer you wait to open them, or you could use more keys to get the same level of rewards

[@HNcomics]

​@Goomba456 yeah but you can't really AFK farm the keys unless you rebuild the whole chamber. And even then you'd have to wait for X long for everything to respawn.

[@Goomba456]

@HNcomics True, though key farms do exist already albeit they're pretty impractical. you just set up a rail around the entire area and use lava to kill the mobs. Then a hopper minecart collects the keys. The only thing is you couldn't do ominous raids because of the effects, though you can always still just block in the spawner and cover them in lava manually

[@samuelgoodliffe4757]

2:05 "The fact the player can only use these vaults once kinda goes against the spirit of the structure itself" TRUE, true. When they advertised it as replayable I figured the one time only was only a thing for the ominous vaults. Which is totally fair in my opinion. But the fact that all the normal vaults only let you use them once makes me never want to replay the structure to begin with. Make a farm? yes. Fight in the chamber for more loot? no.

[@Gigi4u]

Yea originally they had only shown the trial spawners as the loot reward block and it was reusable. But then they introduced the valts that are singluse. It just breaks the spirit of the structure, it was meant to be a fun place you revisit multiple times. Maby they could introduce a cool down system for vaults were it would take multiple days for it to reset

[@NotGhostCaos]

My dream is a harder Ender Dragon battle when respawned with bad omen

[@smolbrendan5978]

that would be great

[@goomah8057]

They have to make the boss harder in general. I can't believe they haven't made any changes to it for years.

[@leetri]

@@goomah8057 Because to the vast, vast, vast majority of players the boss is still too hard and they don't ever even go to the End. You gotta keep in mind that most people are very casual with Minecraft and regularly struggle with simple mobs like zombies and skeletons.

[@notgabriel8624]

It’s crazy to me that they revolutionized how to approach rewarding and challenging players with omen bottles and vaults and then haven’t done a thing yet. People have been begging for more difficulty in this game forever and this is such a straightforward way to do it without sacrificing the core game’s intended difficulty

[@miacarter1435]

Dude that's a really good idea. You can also apply this to the wither too. Because it's something the player chooses to do (drinking the bad omen potion) they can absolutely justify it within the existing game design philosophy

[@Ciguato]

Imagine an Ominous Nether Fortress spawns the Hovering Inferno from the 2017 mob vote….

[@dani.meisner]

An ominous fortress update is such a good idea

[@ineophobe]

we're lucky to see mojang even add any hostile mobs in general

[@Cass0wary_399]

@@ineophobewhen they do we are lucky that they do more than 2 hearts of damage and not relegated as support for classic hostile mobs.

[@ineophobe]

@@Cass0wary_399 and if they even do that, we're lucky if they aren't just a variant of another mob

[@jpting_]

Yeah, I've really found it weird that the vaults are single-use only. At that point, just have the trial spawners give the loot one time instead and cut out the middleman. Though I'm guessing the trial keys could be used at other structures in the future?

[@metalsuccattack]

yeah you just go and search for more vaults by then. when using a minimap/map mod they're pretty frequent (~500 blocks away from each other)

[@tienatho2149]

@@metalsuccattack Or just use the official way: buying the map from catographer villager

[@metalsuccattack]

@@tienatho2149 i could, but i use them for nearly everything else

[@Engardus]

So there’s a reason to actually go to more than 1

[@jpting_]

@@Engardus But why *should* there be a reason to go to more than one? They all generate the same rooms. It's the same exact player experience except at different coordinates. The whole point of the trial spawners is replayability, why should the player need to find a new 'replayable' dungeon?

[@whalek]

What I really thought was strange about the structure was its design from an aesthetic point of view. In minecraft there are two sorts of structures in the overworld: either clearly decrepit abandoned ruins shrouded in darkness and/or filled with undead mobs (dungeons, the deep dark, strongholds), or relatively well-maintained structures with alive mobs (villages, pillager outposts, woodland mansions). However, the trial chambers operate under this uncanny valley or liminal feeling where they look very clean and shiny, outside of maybe the occasional copper bulbs being a bit dim, while there are no live NPC's that would've been taking care of it. These structures could have had cobwebs, vines, mossy tuff bricks could have maybe been added too for this purpose! and the oxidation of the copper could have been made to look less intentional, to look like it's actually been oxidizing from decades of disuse. In that sense then, the trial chambers don't fit the "aesthetic" and ambience that I would usually associate with generated structures in minecraft. So in that sense, in my opinion, they feel more like an adventure map or (god forbid) a mod rather than a vanilla feature that meshes with the preexisting lore and worldbuilding of minecraft.

[@cringecande_9352]

Very true and fait point. Mossy tuff would be sick.

[@l4zurike216]

The trial chambers are sealed chambers so it makes sense that they're clean and lack erosion

[@l4zurike216]

Also ocean monuments have a similar clean feel

[@doublesystem9790]

That could be fixed if they had tuff and copper golems walking around, they'd be the perfect residents for it.

[@Borapaws]

i think thats what makes it stand out so much tbf, we havent really seen much like it and the trial chamber itself feels like the single contiguous threat playing tricks on you instead of a set of mobs that also happen to generate in those dungeons which is why it can stay so pristine because the chamber ITSELF is alive also even though i voted for allay i wouldve loved to see copper golems return but for how focused the update was on the dungeon experience im fine with taking that hit

[@brickbot2.038]

I just wanted to connect your point about harvesting the copper and the replayability of the trial chambers, that being if a player harvests all the copper then the experience gets ruined for replayability. Like, nobody is stripping out structures made of stone or wood for resources, but the trial chamber is the only structure that's made from a flashy block that players would want to harvest, which is really contradictory to the idea of getting to re-experience it

[@ovencake523]

id imagine that a player would strip the copper and then build a farm for the breezes like etho or xisuma harvesting and industrializing instead of replaying the same experience

[@BinaryWhale]

Yeah, given how useful the keys are to get better loot, you'd probably strip out 1-3 chambers and turn some or all of them into key farms. You get a couple double chests worth of copper from each chamber, so unless you're building a whole copper world, I don't think you'd need to strip out more than a few chambers.

[@Trident_Gaming03]

It's still an absolute tragedy the copper and tuff golem weren't added in 1.21

[@cringecande_9352]

Would've been PERFECT mojang...

[@EmperorPenguin1217]

Defeat grabbed from the jaws of victory...

[@micahfurlow2624]

I'm still mad that the copper golem wasn't added, gives copper more uses and would've fit perfectly for trial chambers

[@kage_4046]

7:01 In single player & friendly servers, it is quite a fashion item (Unless you need to delete a bunch of iron golems or something), but on PvP servers, it seems to me to be one of the strongest weapons available.

[@mikul2646]

I don't really like trial chambers at a conceptual level. I think the instanced loot, structure design, spawners, the ominous mechanic, and even the name make them feel very "game-y". I could see these being a Minecraft Dungeons level before a Vanilla Minecraft feature. Everything other structure in Minecraft has a plausible explanation for its existence, like old ruins, and abandoned stronghold, or a lively village. They all feel lived in. This structure completely subverts Minecraft's theming with its polished aesthetic and organized arenas for fighting mobs. Its only reason to exist in the world is for you to conquer it. The concept of a regenerating dungeon could have been very interesting. They could have made it shift around and reassemble itself after every run, like a living structure. That would have been very unique and would have given the structure some much-needed character.

[@hhff8534]

trial chambers may also have reasons they exist and are so well preserved. mojang doesn't give straight answers to the game's lore, the players are the ones who need to look deep and figure out why things are the way they are

[@enderboy-db3sh]

An idea I have is that there could be small structures, about the size of wells in the overworld which are just a vault. This would then make a little sense why you should collect so many keys. Because now vaults wouldn't be exclusive to trial chambers. Though I wonder if that would increase clutter. Someone with more survival experience tell me: do you keep keys in your inventory/ender chest/shulker box when going out exploring?

[@drgabi18]

I fully agree with making Trial Vaults openable again but with worse and worse loot, I wanted to automate a minecart going after each vault so I can just put my key and get an item, but surprise, they're one time only. For the copper grates, normally in real life they stop everything except water, so it makes sense that a big gust of wind would get stopped by them. The only problem I have with the trial is just that the Cartographer Villager is broken, every villager I buy maps from point to the same map, so it's impossible for me to find a new one without cheats.

[@Borapaws]

this isnt broken, its a parity issue between java and bedrock

[@dat_fast_boi]

@Borapaws is it? I've had cartographers scam me multiple times on Java by giving me maps to trial chambers I've already seen I think it happens because there simply aren't any other trial chambers in generated chunks nearby - moving to another village which is far away seems to solve it for me

[@Borapaws]

@@dat_fast_boi villagers on java point to the closest structure like /locate, but bedrock usually finds a new one within reason hopefully when dungeons get similar touchups as we've seen with the quality standard of trial chambers its addressed, really hopeful for some dungeon overhauls in the future

[@DavisPetersen-k7u]

Villagers are assigned to the closest chamber when unlocking the trade. If you go to a different village, (assuming it is not too close) you will most likely find a new one.

[@MoreInsane96]

​@DavisPetersen-k7u not true, the map is generated when you unlock the trade. The problem is that they seem to not ignore already visited structures

[@Trident_Gaming03]

Now that trial chambers exist, they really need to boost the natural generation of other ores and decrease copper

[@Gigi4u]

What's your problem with copper? I think it's frequency is fine. It's a building block you will need in reasonable quantities. If it was made rarer for other ores it would make building anything with it a slog to complete.

[@hhff8534]

diamonds are already way too common. they should generate more rarely if anything

[@Gigi4u]

@@hhff8534 why is that a bad thing? You still need to go down in to the deepest caves to find them. Honestly I just take them anyway and stock pile them. I use them when I make trimms so they don't collect dust. We need more uses for diamonds amd not less of them. Remember when Gold was almost worthless? Now it's very sought after for its larger variety of uses. If diamonds would receive that treatment people would actively mine them again.

[@hhff8534]

@@Gigi4u it's a bad thing because you end up progressing too quickly. the amount of diamonds you find is way too much. the second best set of tools should not be obtainable with so little effort. it should be something you get over time. more uses for diamonds doesnt solve the problem and more uses in general isn't always the best. diamonds are already useful enough as you need lots of them for trims. the solution to this is to make diamonds significantly rarer while making smithing templates significatly cheaper. this means that acquiring diamond gear itself becomes harder, but armor trims dont end up being too expensive

[@EmperorPenguin1217]

@@hhff8534 Trims are a poorly designed solution for frequency. Seven diamonds for a minor pixel change? Really?

[@lightsinthedarkness]

The thing which I find myself feeling more and more with each update is: the update isn't bad but it could be better (Bettered with some small and simple additions/changes)

[@jacklandedhere5157]

Yup. Too bad all the features get abandoned and forgotten by Mojang. There's a lot of potential in the stuff they add but they almost never go back and do necessary touch ups. We still have abandoned features like polar bears from a decade ago.

[@sol_ARG]

something to solve both the keys AND vaults problem might be to make each use of a vault cost an increasing amount of keys, up to a stack before it finally locks. so instead of 1 key -> find another vault, it'd go: 1 key -> 2 keys -> 4 keys -> 8 keys (expensive but doable) -> 16 keys (okay now this is getting silly) -> 32 keys (why are you doing this) -> 64 keys -> vault locked, key spending problem unlocked

[@DavisPetersen-k7u]

Mojang would have to communicate that with the player somehow.

[@Duzloo]

I've never searched for a trial chamber, and I forgot all about it. My single player world is two years old now, and I'm just too busy, I've also explored a lot already, so I would have to fly a long distance to generate new terrain. I want to find a pale forest though. Resin devalues copper even more I think. Good points in that video, seeing the mace as fashion item shows me that it really is not that important. I would love to find the new music disks though, and the armor trims, I like to collect stuff. I don't feel there's a rush though.

[@coffee115]

It's not required to beat the game, so it'll never really be relevant. It sucks that it had to be that way.

[@Duzloo]

​@@coffee115 I agree, it's not relevant. Would be fun to explore one day but even less important if you already have Netherite everything. It's not meant for late game (me), it's meant for people playing on a fresh new world.

[@Gigi4u]

I was able surprisingly quickly find one on my 5 year old world. I just took a villager and made him a cartographer. I got the map after a few rerolls. Then it was only about 300-500 blocks away. A tip always keep a few areas of your world unexplored for future updates.

[@norene-n1q]

I don't understand people who say mace is decorative As a rule, these people haven't even played with it and are just jumping to conclusions. I carry it instead of an axe and with wind charges and can't imagine my life any other way

[@dat_fast_boi]

On re-openable vaults: I do like the concept of keys still having a use in "cleared" trial chambers to get "less good" loot, but I could see it being unclear whether or not you've already gutted a given vault for what it's worth, and it may also be difficult to decide which items they'd make renewable with it (should you be able to get infinite Precipice and Creator disks? what about diamonds?) Besides that, trial chambers already have renewable loot - the mobs' drops. I feel the hole in my inventory whenever I run low on wind charges, and the chambers usually net me a good amount of slime, bones, arrows, and string (though I only really care about the slime on my current hardcore world). The one gripe I have with trial chambers is how rare Wind Burst is. I'm not even that good with the mace, I just want one that's fully enchanted so I can one hit the Ender Dragon in style, but since I've only found *one* level 1 book in 9 chambers, I may need to scrap that idea.

[@geerakindeathrider5693]

6:27 ya i wouldn't get my hopes up i would be surprised if we ever see them add more to this, thats mojang mo at this point "Heres something that has awesome potential that we will now forget even exist in the game" The Deep Dark, echo shards, archeology, the sniffer, The Pale Garden, the fucking fletching table. So many ideas that just dont go anywhere, sure maybe years later they will do something with them. But they shouldn't have been added if they didn't have a plan for them now. Like the deep dark could have been fleshed out so much better as is its kinda pointless and out of left field.

[@OneCokeAndDrink]

I wonder if we'll reach 1.24 before the fletching table gets an actual function other than 'villager job block'

[@KangarooJoeMama]

Why is the trial chambers just a giant block you have to mine into. Why couldn’t it be more like a bigger area protected by unmineable blocks and you would have to go through a huge gate to get into the trial chamber like a mini dungeon.

[@JinxeBlaq]

Idk why but for some reason Mojang has an issue loading empty areas in a bubble around structures. I don’t think they’ve ever done it, even for structures where it would make sense. Like nether fortresses, or public bastions- Always loading inside ceilings and halfway in hills, or buried under ground.

[@Engardus]

Because 1. That’s not Minecraft 2. People can easily bug abuse into the structure 3. People can use mods to bypass it

[@KangarooJoeMama]

@@Engardus there will always be one group of people who do that. But for the majority of people they will just go through the giant door.

[@nodustollens9183]

It’s so that you can delete the structure if you happen to find one halfway through a build, they don’t like adding indestructible blocks because they would ruin a build if you discovered it was in the way

[@itzangel0735]

Nah, as someone who has played in Trial Chambers a lot, the replayability is pretty awesome, many times you dont get all the keys needed to open all vaults with just one run and the ominous key even less. I've been in loops there, when all the dungeon is cleared, I go for a ominous run, when the ominous run is done, all the spawners are active again, so the playthrough continues until Im satisfied, then there is value to try find another one, after all, Trial cñChambers are fairly common, so the vaults being useable just once seems the like the best way to go.

[@Mr_Mimestamp]

I love Trial Chambers. I wish more structures were designed like them. I hope we get a bunch of structures just like it, I wouldn’t mind seeing a lot of structures all over the world using the Trial Chambers format, with the trial spawners and the keys. Hopefully this makes adding new structures easier!

[@Borapaws]

vaults have been mentioned to hopefully set the path to resolve trying to find elytras or netherite upgrades so we just have to wait until its the focus (which i really hope they do for the next "major" drop)

[@MoreInsane96]

They'll never update existing structures. They're too scared

[@hulkmt]

​@@MoreInsane96did you forget when they changed the world gen completely?

[@hhff8534]

@@MoreInsane96 1.20 changed desert temples, ocean ruins and added new loot to just about every structure

[@EmperorPenguin1217]

@@hhff8534 A few changed sand/gravel blocks that give emeralds and sticks. Groundbreaking

[@kenny5676]

I feel like the biggest issue is this (and a lot of other recent updates) feel just a little bit half baked. They're good, but have the potential to be just so much better if they listed to feedback and made some small changes here and there. I think an example with the most recent update is the white wood - the perfect opportunity to let us dye it and have whatever colour we want (especially as they'd reworked custom colouring of items based on teams around the same time) but instead it's shipped as generic and will probably never get changed again :(

[@tahunuva4254]

I wouldn't know, I haven't bothered updating

[@norene-n1q]

Paint white boards originally stupid idea, it was going to be introduced in beta but even then did not decide to After all, what is the point of adding new “trees” if you can paint, maybe a strange logic for a game about construction, but in my opinion so only more interesting

[@theConcernedWyvern]

I really think a lot of these updates need more time in the oven. They need to feel immersed in the game and have more utility. A year per update is a very very fast schedule for the high concept stuff they're doing. Every time I update, it feels like a new update is about to drop. Part of that is because I play modded and have to wait for my mods to update, but it's really just too fast. I wish they would slow down and spend more time really fleshing out what they add.

[@Tamed_Delirium]

The copper grates comment is perfect. Exactly what I thought

[@sandwichqueen]

I thought the vault should give an initial award that's something big, and then a smaller reward every other time the same player opens it. That way it's still worh exploring new trial chambers, but also still worth setting up in one to farm rewards. And it would be super easy to implement too. Just make 2 loot tables and switch between them depending on if the user already been there.

[@fujiwaranonekobiodrando1257]

3:48 Nah the replay-ability lies within someone being UNLUCKY af and never gets any keys from the trail spawners. But after that, infinite key farm begins

[@mouseyboy427]

The mace should have a fancy 3d model like the trident Why does the trident look special and not the mace?

[@lomiification]

i think they missed on not having more different potion drinking things for changing the trial chambers to be different. the ominous ones are good, but there could also be some water effect, or void effect, so that sponges and elytra can be more renewable you could then loot the same vault with different key types to get reuse

[@frogmouth2]

Wind charges being less effective against netherite armour was such a stupid decision.

[@omichromium]

Also the mace is definitely a very strong weapon. I use it as my primary weapon on servers that I play on

[@fujiwaranonekobiodrando1257]

5:24 wait I thought they would go through those. Wasn't there a snapshot that accidentally made wind charges go through any block? Or maybe only Breeze's balls can go through

[@WinchesterxNL]

Did it once, it's a decent source for copper. But don't think I'm really going to do them a lot more, if at all. The loot is kinda meh, to be honest. I mean yay... Another carrot or some bread. That I could've gotten from any other chest anywhere else, without having to fight for it. The "big prizes" are incredibly rare. And in my opinion hardly worth the gamble. It was an alright update. But feels redundant. Just like the whole archeology thing. Best updates so far was honestly the caves and cliffs one, and the Villager one. If we're talking "recent."

[@benismann]

honestly most additions nowadays are just redundant. Trial chambers are funky novelty thingy but i would never go for them again. Whatever they're adding next, that pale biome, i probably wont visit more than once. That's just not the way you update a game when most of the people already played it for at least some time. It has to be either deeper or rework existing mechanics.

[@mikefromco]

I’ll be honest, I love 1.21, both the base and the two drops for the update. I think it adds a great solution to the issue of getting lots of copper, creates a fun multiplayer experience, and builds on some of the things they’ve established (armor trims, banner patterns, breeze rods) while also introducing new elements like the trial spawner, the vault, and ominous events (along with a much needed raid rework). I agree I hope to see the vault and trial spawner system built into more structures and stuff but I think the vaults lack of reusability is fine; it’s meant as a chest that can be looted by lots of players, not a renewable one. For me 1.21 was the best update since the nether and village and pillage update because it was self contained, delivered what it promised, and fleshed out the game with new and improved features.

[@membrillowo]

Something I've never seen mentioned in these kind of videos is how Vaults are a great level design tool. Of course the most interesting aspect but if you think about it, something that Vaults add to the game is the ability to lock loot behind a desired action. Chests can be looted regardless of you engaging with the challenge of the structure or not, but a Vault's loot can only be accessed once you've done whatever the designer wants you to do, which in the Trial Chamber's case is beating enemy hordes. This could be extrapolated in the future to gatekeep loot behind many different things, like a mini boss, or having to visit different structures to gather key pieces, who knows.

[@cringecande_9352]

Success, easy. The trial chambers are the best designed structure in the game by a long shot. I personally think the pvp challenges are very fun and a very engaging way to get loot apposed to just breaking some chest and running away (like most mc structures). Ominous trials are pretty cool too, my only gripe would be that they could be harder, and a general gripe i have with the structure, if anything, is that we didnt get more new mobs in the trial chambers. Wouldve been the perfect update to add the ice illager, illusioner, and possibly the blaze king. Another thing i like about the structure is that A. Its procedurally generated, and b. Has plenty of different types of loot. What i dont see many people talking about how much emeralds the trial chambers give you... between normal chests, pots, and vaults/ominous vaults, you get plenty. If they ever do the villager de buff than i could see going to a chamber to be a viable strat to get emerald rich without making some crazy redstone farm. I just feel like the structure is great in that was because the risk and the reward is perfectly balanced out. And not only that, you could still keep coming to a single trial chamber and still get something out of it. Especially if your a new player to a server, effectively everyone could use the same trial chamber once. What other structure in mc is like that? Mojang did good on this 👏

[@EmperorPenguin1217]

"The trial chambers are the best designed structure in the game by a long shot." Strongholds? Bastions? End cities? ocean monuments? Thank god wind charges are as good as they are otherwise the TCs wouldn't have anything to go back there for

[@cringecande_9352]

@EmperorPenguin1217 stronghold generation is notoriously broken. And even if it isn't, it's a snoosefest to explore. As for ocean monuments and end cities, they aren't bad per se just aren't as engaging as the trial chambers. They aren't as throughly designed as the trial chambers, too. For all of those structures, you pretty much just memorize where the loot is located and just dig in and grab it & go. And not to mention strongholds, end cities, and ocean monuments barely have any variation in how they generate, unlike the trial chamber. And also there's just the fact that once the loot from those structures are gone, they're gone and the only way to get more loot is to look for another one of those structures which is just a flaw that the trial chambers doesn't have to that extent because even if you do get all the vaults you can still farm keys. If ANYTHING bastions are pretty fun to explore, has good loot, and a unique challenge as well as various types of generation, which is good! But it's still not great on the level of the trial chamber because it doesn't have renewable loot for each new player that finds it. So yes, the trial chambers are easily the best designed structure in the game

[@wj11jam78]

"pvp" is an acronym of "player versus player". You're thinking of "pve"

[@cringecande_9352]

@wj11jam78 my mistake

[@memor22]

4:50 breezes actually can shoot you though copper grates though...

[@MattTOB618]

Like, their projectiles pass straight through? Or are you getting pushed when standing next to a copper grate and the projectile hits the other side of it?

[@derjona]

That’s the thing most all of the new features they’re adding these past few years could turn into something really cool through proper development or even tiny tweaks but mojang just stops halfway and just adds another flat feature that you use once and then never hear of again

[@Kjotleik]

I think it depends on the type of player you are. For me there is nothing of value in a trial chamber except the copper blocks it is made up of. I have not found one in single-player yet (have not been looking for one), but I've seen a lot of videos where people use it. It is a good thing that the mobs stop spawning for a while after you kill off enough of them. The bad thing is they start spawning again after a short time. And I've never been particularly fond of getting attacked by mobs when I'm out gathering resources. It is probably a lot better to just convert some zombies from a spawner into drowned and kill them for the copper ingots they drop. Much safer and doesn't require constant vigilance. The design of the Maze is a terrible one. If you use it as a hammer to hit mobs it does little damage. With one exception. You have to fall from a high point down and hit the mob. And if you miss, you end up dead yourself from fall damage. That is way too risky to even consider doing in a regular world. Unless you are at your base (where you last slept) and don't lose your items when you die from the fall. But that is something you do once (just to have done it). It is not something that you incorporate into your regular gameplay.

[@georgthedwarf]

I think what would fix the loot in Minecraft is more unique weapon drops. Sort of terraria-style loot. Where weapons can have unique aspects (like percntile damage increases on certain enemies, longer reach, faster attack speet, etc.) that you can only get from farming them, making players want to farm more for that unique sword

[@TerraWispr]

I am PRAYING Mojang is subscribed to you Your suggestions and criticisms are simply correct

[@SirLiamTheGreat]

Personally I think Tricky Trials was the most solid update we've had since the Nether Update

[@detto1998]

That's crazy, reworking the whole world gen, making them both deeper and taller, cave biomes and variety and somehow that's not solid enough..

[@msiio]

There's no way

[@SirLiamTheGreat]

@@detto1998 Caves and cliffs being split in two parts hurts it a lot imo

[@Engardus]

Imo 1.18 was a bit better

[@KaiDevvy]

I tend to play modpacks more than vanilla and in the last pack I was playing (DW20 1.21.1) I was able to "refresh" trail vaults using a key. So you could use a key once to open it and get your loot, and use another key to restock it. I'm not sure which mod adds this feature, but it feels so natural that I had assumed it was vanilla functionality. I'm still surprised it isn't. Feels like that system is the best, since you can choose to either optimize your key usage by seeking out a fresh vault every time or if you're trying to farm for specific items you can just stay in one place and repeat trial spawners over and over.

[@uletir]

Adventuring is great, and I am glad they put effort into it. But I absolutely agree that they need to focus on incentive to build, and renewability when it comes to structures you can find from adventuring. Minecraft needs to utilize the beacon process more often. Getting a beacon gives you incentive for adventuring, building, grinding, and combat. Because beacons are renewable, you have a reason to adventure to find a fortress, then build a base near the nether fortress, build changes to the fortress to improve spawn rates of wither skeletons and make the grind process easier. You have a simple, challenging, and fun process to get the wither skeletons skulls. Then you are given a challenging boss fight with a great reward. The best part is on servers this allows many players to reuse these structures and there is no limitation on the beacons. They need to add this type of process to the major items like elytra, netherite upgrade templates, and maces to help in their renewability and accessibility to all the players. As well as give major incentives and fun game mechanics to build at structures like the trial chambers. It doesn’t have to be 1 to 1 the same for these items and structures, but a similar idea that you want a reason for more than just adventuring, you want incentive to build and have renewable challenges with great rewards.

[@offscreen4250]

It's really interesting how these take so much after the features which the Aether mod experimented with way back in its own dungeons. Since I have no idea who came up with what I really can't say definitively, but my gut tells me Bdogz being on the dev team is gonna be a huge boon to structure design in Minecraft going forward.

[@gamerdude3465]

My only worry is that mojang won't go back and tweak these or add new variants, just like how they haven't touched the ocean or nether since those updates.

[@TheToasterWaffle]

I think we definitely need a structure fix by adding trial spawners and vaults to replace their counterparts in the current structures. You may need to rename the Trials to Wind Trials or give the vaults, spawners, and keys new names though.

[@djinnspalace2119]

i personally never bothered with the chambers. if im too weak i dont want to enter because i get overwhelmed. but if im too strong it becomes a chore to do. and it feels like having a shield completely breaks the chambers. imo the shield was one of the worst additions to combat, its too powerful. as for the chmabers loot, there isnt really anything i want down there. my exploration focuses on getting rare items to display and new building blocks. as u said, the mace is not very flashy. and armor trims idk. i got my favourite set and anything beyond that is whatever. the wind things are also very annoying to deal with. this addition was on multiplayers so i understand as a singleplayer i dont gain much from them. the thing is: if they werent underground id at least have some cool things in my overworld. doesnt have to be much, maybe just a tower sticking out of the ground. but as of right now i basically fully ignore them.

[@norene-n1q]

Don't underestimate the mace, in my opinion it is very good as a weapon and replaced my axe to wield it Most of those who say so have not played with it at all, and for me as a person who with a netherite sword on sharpness 5 who needs 2-3 hits to kill zombies it is the best option The mace at least cuts down on uninteresting time in the game

[@yolomationanimation9784]

Ive used copper ore as a simple early game exp source by making a bulk ore smelter and headed to a dripstone cave. Theres something satisfying to me bulking up on blocks of raw copper and equating it to a mass of exp and copper blocks that I cant personally get over, but then again Im very easily amused by mining in minecraft

[@steampaul3442]

i feel like the mechanic used for the spawners, where they have a 30 minute cooldown would be great for the vaults, with them having a cooldown of, like, 45 min or even an hour. and the ominous spawners maybe having a longer cooldown

[@retexcrafted]

Its always great to see a new upload from this channel. And i 100% agree with the debait on the worth of actuality Getting copper ore

[@geekjokes8458]

the ominous potion idea is really really cool

[@BinaryWhale]

Copper is a strange animal. It's a common ore, and fortune lets you get a lot. But to build with it you need tons of it, which makes mining usually out of the question. Since Hermitcraft Season 9 debuted a couple different copper farm designs, I think the one Xisuma showed is the clear winner, mostly because of how easy it is to set up. To get enough to build with, you need a farm like that, not just to go mining with. I like the copper color, but it seems most people prefer the teal color, which makes it even more difficult to obtain. Pxlriffs made David versions 1 - 5, but ultimately, it seems like it's a way more efficient process to put unoxidized copper on an oxidized platform. I took all the copper out of a trial chamber in my single player world (video coming soon TM), and got a couple double chests of the main copper blocks (oxidized and copper colored), and about another double chest of misc blocks like grates, doors, and trapdoors. I fortune III'd something like 15 - 18 stacks of ore blocks, and it didn't even compare. I think I wound up with 3/4 of a double chest. Mining out a trial chamber is the way to go for copper at scale.Even moreso if you want it waxed or oxidized.

[@willhuman641]

Vanilla copper ore keeps my modpacks from having 31 different types of copper ore that all spawn independently and make copper more common than stone- it will always be my favorite ore just for that reason.

[@AngelaAmaryllis]

I love the trial chambers just as they are. It would be cool if the keys worked on regular spawners though, maybe to change what mob they spawned. So if I find a zombie spawner, but I'd rather have a skeleton spawner, I could use keys on it until it spawned skeletons instead. As for copper, I really wish some kind of villager would buy it.

[@thecrimsoncreep]

It would be cool if there were just random features in the world that were like a hole in the ground with a Trial vault in it, just so the player might be incentivized to keep their excess Trial Keys in case they randomly run into a lone vault.

[@notgabriel8624]

My opinion: I’d take permanent mining fatigue but the ability to re-roll vaults any day of the week. I understand they’re easy to farm so I think having one area of the game you just aren’t allowed to cheese (not easily anyway). Trial chambers are so replayable but then the rewards aren’t? Make it make sense. Another way they could do it is the Don’t Starve route, where killing the ender dragon resets all vaults (like how killing fuelweaver in don’t starve resets the ruins loot) I also think we NEEEED to see the trial chambers mechanics in other aspects of the game. Make end cities use vaults and spawners to make elytra easier to obtain for each player. Make woodland Mansions these crazy combat dungeons instead of big scary house you kill 1 or 2 evokers in! The ocean monument too! Make bad omen create raid boss versions of the ender dragon and wither! People have been wanting more difficulty for years and this is how you can introduce that difficulty in a way that’s optional!

[@rellloom]

I 100% agree with the vault problem. There is no disadvantage in making it even infinite per player. What the balancing mechanic of that would be is honestly up to testing and conceptualising. Your impulse is degrading loot, my impulse is increading the time it takes to open a new one from e.g. every 30 minutes to 60 and so on until you hit a cap. Or perhaps the limit being longer than spawner refresh period would be balanced in itself, like 2h vs 30m. Either way, these things being single use per player feels contrary to the concept. As is, I feel minecraft exploration is a bit lame; there are many things in many configurations, but the core of what you do as a player remains as ‘enter, conquer, loot, exit’. It would be nice to have a reason to stick around someplace, edit it to preference, and so forth. Or get acquainted with your local labyrinth. We have a million reasons already to ‘shallow explore’, to loot and run. I want reasons to explore down to the ins and outs.

[@LC_98]

They messed up making the structure out of copper blocks, there was an opportunity to create new blocks with different mechanics/ animations. A block like the red stone lamp but it switches on and off at random, making visibility hard for the player. A block that changes between a hollow status and a full status, similar function to a trap door. Glass that changes transparency at random. They will need to add a tonne of uses for copper in the coming updates to make people mine it again and not just tear up the chambers.

[@minisparks5951]

I think the vaults being single use feels fine to me. There’s replay-ability in the fact that you can make it harder by different degrees with the ominous bottles, and the blue vaults can only be opened that way. A couple of runs of the same vault feels right to me before needing to find another. It excites me that they could use the vaults in new structures, and I really hope they go back and look at older structures too, but I won’t get my hopes up because lots of updates seem to be fairly isolated in their implementation nowadays. I also like your idea of having the ominous bottles be usable elsewhere too, but my previous worry holds here too. Overall I think the update is really good, I wasn’t excited at the initial thought, but ended up enjoying it. The update features will be awesome if applied elsewhere, so here’s to hoping

[@coopercan]

Are emeralds a “failed ore” because villagers trade them in mass? Is iron a failed ore because you can make a golem farm? Mine it or don’t. Also, I imagine I speak for most people when I say that vaults should be refreshable. Pretty much my only complaint of the update.

[@EmperorPenguin1217]

"Are emeralds a “failed ore” because villagers trade them in mass?" Yes. "Is iron a failed ore because you can make a golem farm?" Yes. Iron farms are terrible game design and should be removed

[@coopercan]

@@EmperorPenguin1217hey I remember you! You follow me around! Creepy! 😂

[@colordeaff]

i always thought that a real life 24 hour timer on the vaults was a good alternative solution. For the people who want to do more trial chambers, you can always go out and find a new one. If all you want is just to experience the trial chamber, loot and all again, then you can just wait till next time and do the one close to home rather than spend and extra hour or two scouring caves. I just think that having a trial chamber be completed only to become an almost useless structure is pretty lame.

[@bolcapaul7872]

They miss some stuff like copper golem and tuff golem , recipe for bronze armor , chaimail armor , a new enchament to pick the spawner and make personal spawner , a potion to have a few minute off imune poison and weakness , a higer chance to spawn mod with powerfull armor ( skeleton , zombie etc ) and the structure need to be more big , and need more mob in structure like ( blaze ) .

[@PJutch]

My main problem with trial chambers is that it's a more or less rare underground structure so it's kinda hard to stumble upon one and I don't feel like I want to search so I barely interact with it

[@khazoda]

Vaults should absolutely have a per-player cooldown and be reusable. Trial Omen also needs to have some sort of loot exclusivity or multiplier the higher level it is.

[@brevortofficial]

I was really excited to do trial chambers with my friends but they were all kind of like "What's the point???" which made it a singleplayer thing and that kinda takes the fun out of it for me too because it's designed to be a multiplayer experience

[@martinespejo1091]

I disagree with the windcharge take, since its introduction I've been using it a lot for building and chopping annoying trees like mangrove, for me it's a great addition

[@keithrowsell6847]

I welcome the trial chambers if only to have been able to swap out the tripwires I was using as Decked out level keys to the lovely trial chamber versions.

[@theterrarianlichlichking4338]

I really do agree with all of this, plus this dungeon i feel like was the startup to a new start for future dungeons like reworking current dungeons and making new ones. Like for example the ominous potion being used to redo the dungeon later on in a harder mode like the trial chambers include buffed mobs along with new buffs that cause them to spawn more enemies. Also, maybe a new way for Minecraft to go on about dungeons as so far we all agree that all the current dungeons need new content and a whole rework and making them each have their own thing. like for example maybe make the stronghold feel like the final dungeon before your great fight or make the desert temple be about tomb raiding or something. there is alot that this dungeon has brought to the table and I hope that it will be the start to a great future

[@kektics3074]

Here’s to hoping a later drop/update will add a way to either reset vaults or add new uses for the keys

[@pikminman13]

I find it amusing to hear about vanilla features ive never touched

[@EmmaMaySeven]

The difficulty of trial spawners should be tied to the XP level of the player who activates it, so it scales with skill. Likewise, keys should be XP--linked, giving greater rewards for defeating a harder spawn activiation, meaning players receive something which may be useful to their level. Because mobs give XP when killed, time spent in a Trial Chamber is both useful and virtuous. More mobs mean more XP, and more XP means better rewards, and better rewards mean the player is equipped to fight more and harder mobs. A good combat player can then walk into a Trial Chambers with almost nothing and walk out hours later fully decked out in enchanted netherite armor---you just have to be really good. (Also, this could create a market for trial keys: a high level player defeats multiple spawners, takes the keys and sells them to other players to claim the high level rewards.)

[@alexanderficken9354]

the "unlimited keys" aspect I haven't really experienced personally, there is just enough to unlock all I need in a trial chamber, give or take. This is assuming I am raiding trial chambers one by one, though

[@reversal2341]

Personally think they could've made the vaults reusable with a set of time limit. Since the loot are quite good, maybe 2 in-game days for the normal vaults and 7 days for the ominous one

[@BinaryWhale]

The vault should be resettable, just like the trial spawners. I understand it's primary purpose was for multiplayer, but the spawners reset and still give loot, and the (interpolated) lore would support the vaults doing the same.

[@GrannyGamer1]

If Etho is struggling with the mace, what chance have I? By the time I'm positioned to attack, any noob Bowman can knock me down. Anvils forever. I like that trial chambers are like old time Vechs maps. Loot,bgear, etc. are available. You're right that it could have a cool down and then revive. Shame all the advanced stuff poops out I think, since I play very badly, I'd just keep chewing off little bits, swiping all the cool blocks, running home with my treasure and returning later. I could make one chamber last for months. I'm saying it's a bit intimidating for players with motor skills challenges or lackluster devices, Internet connections. I'm vision impaired on an Android touch screen that's literally cracked in five places right now. Next month, I'll have a new, 11" tablet, projector screen, Bluetooth keyboard and wireless mouse, which will certainly help. Bedrock is exasperatingly clunky compared to Java, even on my sad, overheating $200 laptop from Walmart that finally died. I'm looking forward to the chamber, and to that skulk mess, which I'll also nibble away at.

[@lomiification]

the lifesteal folks seem to be doing pretty well with maces, but its main thing seems to be about killing people through armor more than anything

[@GrannyGamer1]

@lomiification they're probably playing on better hardware, internet and aren't disabled.

[@killianobrien2007]

2 words. Wind charges.

[@angelcaru]

This reads like an old forum post

[@GrannyGamer1]

​@@angelcaruOh look! A direction less snowflake, mortally wounded by someone not hurting anyone in the comment section of a KZbin video! Three, or is it four, genocides happening at this moment, but this pearl clutcher is policing writing styles in comments. So clever!

[@nathanhollow0]

That copper grate thing was such a weird specific nitpick lol

[@lomiification]

i think theres some stuff that can be done with keys in general. locking chests for multiplayer? if you kock a chest with a key, only a key with the same name can unlock it? a locked chest gains durability, and a stronger key adda more durability?

[@Pshady]

we had fun going in there, it’s a fun side quest.

[@ThatCoffeeKnightfromEurope-y3f]

Good. I want more content like this. I missed you simplySarc, even tho this channel😮😅 didn't exist back then.

[@snasmusic]

I actually think it's totally fine vaults are only one use! There are many cases in the game where you can stay in one spot for resources, all farms are like that. There are comparatively few things in the game you must explore for every time, and the vault exclusives are fine being on that list.

[@aaaaaa-p7q8e]

Chambers, for me it’s bit too artificial for minecraft. Bit too alive, bit too much of everything.

[@MattisticStatistic]

Feature that exists that I don't really go looking for but think is neat to find. That's it.

[@pegasusbs6237]

Copper or Resin armor/tools would be nice, maybe it fills a special roll instead of being shoved into the hierarchy of armors/tools Maybe even being crafted INTO the others to give special effects

[@Aves_1]

My issue woth armor trims is the absurd cost disparity. Why are some common ores while black is a netherite ingot? Per piece???

[@EmperorPenguin1217]

That and the fact duping a trim costs seven diamonds

[@darkcode404]

I agree about the vault I wish they gave them the same 30 minute cooldown

[@ayeshatasawar5428]

Copper golems wouldve activated the random traps in the chambers and you would have to use honey or something else to stop them which would've been so cool

[@Tamed_Delirium]

They wanted to make roguelike elements in Minecraft and honestly I think it was a neat idea. Mc dungeons did it great tho

[@Tamed_Delirium]

Fortune 3ing copper ore is a hilarious nightmare

[@masterjbt]

take a shot every time he says “kind of”

[@dugoose6934]

I personally think theyre really really fun, I don't mind that theyre not PERFECT. calling a feature "failed" denies the fact the game is constantly making new additions. Copper is definitely not trying to be a rare resource, which in my opinion is fine if they find a use such as powered rails; it just needs a sink that can use it. I do agree with the degrading loot idea though, it allows for replay-ability without a possibly farming situation

[@good-sofa]

Maybe the keys will be used in newer updates and the trial chambers is basically the way you get lots of them for future use in other structures

[@norene-n1q]

Silly theory, so you think they will add dungeons and to get the loot in them will have to go to another dungeon where they are already needed to get the loot?...?

[@good-sofa]

@norene-n1q i don't really see another logical explanation for why they would make the keys unlimited if they aren't infinitely usable in the place they're given. Also the best way to get ominous bottles which are extremely useful for trials is not within the structure itself, but by killing pillager captains

[@skoobzkb]

Copper was a success when it came to mods now just having it in the vanilla game instead of 100 different mods have 100 different copper ores. So it being the game is completely fine in my eyes.

[@ender_slayer3]

My feelings on the trial chambers are this (even though nobody asked): I like them, I think they’re a cool feature, with interesting mechanics, and are very well designed. BUT, I also feel like they’re a supplement for a larger problem, namely the oldest generated structure in Minecraft: the dungeons. I honestly believe something similar to the trial chambers on a much smaller scale should replace the dungeons, perhaps even only consisting of a larger, multi-level room, or a handful of smaller connected rooms. In any case, I believe that the trial chambers overall have been a success.

[@ultimate_pleb]

2:45 i think it should be the other way around I think the trail loot should get better every time you open it but it can only be open a certain number of times (10 by default but it can be changed using commands) and only once per in-game day per player. Yes we keepin' the can open multiple times if you have multiple players thing

[@xtrastudios8270]

People are saying the copper golem should get added, but like.. what would it do.. if it does get added it’s design is to randomly push buttons, Flick levers, press pressure plates, etc.. what purpose would it even serve in the game? Design wise, despite the similarities game design wise, it doesn’t fit very well with the structure

[@EnricosUtLP]

I don't like that chambers are replayable and not at the same time. It'd be so cool to find one near your house and have it be this fun constant challenge, but now you find one and then never use it again which kinda blows.

[@wisecrack3461]

Honestly I think an inversion of your suggestion would be nice, have trial chamber loot stay the same but the difficulty get harder. This would both make used trial chambers more valuable as more interesting mob farms AND allow people to use up all the keys they get from playing a chamber. Finding a way to make sure redstone can't infinitely farm it could be an issue but not one I think is impossible to neatly solve.

[@ZelJoker]

Copper can be one of the best ways of xp if you play with no auto farms

[@gugancapuzzi1855]

⁠In my world I’ve hollowed out the areas around the spawners and made different themed rooms where the mobs spawn in and linked them up together via minecart that I call a “Trial Course”, fun minigame. I have so many keys and random loot but no heavy core yet. You guys are focused on the wrong part of the “replayability” which was always the spawners.