Setting Up a Used Grinder with Top Line Engineering

We visit some of our friends at Top Line Engineering to help them set up their recently purchased surface grinder. Check out their website: www.topline-eng.com/

[@testyourdesign233]

Terrific video Steve. Very little content on maintenance and adjustments of surface grinders out there. Thanks for sharing your work.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

You're welcome Stephen. Steve

[@codprawn]

Wow nice to see you have an old Colchester Triumph. I have one and the old girl can do tenths all day. Even 1 micron occasionally!

[@peteroleary9447]

Steve is right. I've set up enough new Mitsui grinders to know that they are shipped with spacers between the table and the ball ways to keep the balls from brinnelling into the D-2 ways from shipping vibrations. Constant oil lube for ball ways is ideal. Not a fan of grease, but maintenance is an issue. On Mitsuis, we remove the tables every 6 months, clean everything, oil lube, and regrind the chucks.

[@DJ.EddyBru]

I'm really happy I happened across this video, in my home shop at home I have a Reid 618 rollerway and this gave me the insight needed to dial it in properly. working in a broach shop, I'm used to Parkers, but they're out of my price range and a whole different monster. I've never been a fan of Roller bearing grinders but this might help me dial it in as tight as I need!

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

I hope thins go well for you. The Reid is a nice machine. Steve

[@cj7jeep81]

Awesome timing, I just brought home an older DoAll grinder, and now I know what to do to go through it. Thanks for the great videos!

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

You're welcome. I hope the Doall works out well for you. Steve

[@joefalmo5528]

Very good video Steve very informative possibly one of your best i’m sure I can speak for many of us viewers and say that we very much appreciate your effort we all know that it takes extra time out of your life to make these videos I guarantee you did not realize how much we learn from Machinist such as yourself thank you very much

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Thanks Joe, Your kind words mean a lot to us. KZbin has a great community of machinist at many different levels of experience. It is great being part of this community. Steve

[@pierresgarage2687]

Hi Steve, this is a video rich in good clues and pointers, picked up a few ones... Grinding with coolant is really hell, and takes at least twice the time and care... Glad you posted this.... 😎👍

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Hi Pierre, Thanks, grinding without coolant is difficult and if you get to greedy thinking you can get a little more between wheel dressing it can set you back the the beginning. Steve

[@DK-vx1zc]

Excellent as usual Steve! Some great tips you wont find elsewhere. Thanks for sharing.. Hope all is well with you and your family.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Thanks Dan, All is well with the family, thanks foe your thoughts. Steve

[@mikepolet5664]

Awesome video Steve and Adam! Thanks again for all your help with this. You are great too work with. So much knowledge!!!

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

You're welcome Mike. Tell Matt I loved his intro, I didn't see it until the video. It was a fun time working with you guys. Steve

[@sierraspecialtyauto7049]

Fantastic amount of information, Steve. And timely...I'll be bringing home a DoAll D618 in a couple of weeks, and I know it needs all the attention you gave this one. I'll be documenting it on my channel and will give you credit. Thanks much.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

You're welcome, Hope thing work well with the Doall. Steve

[@rlsimpso]

Great video. This helps me get one step closer to buying a used surface grinder with some confidence that I can make it work. Thanks.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

You're Robert. Steve

[@amundsen575]

Fantastic, video on dialing in a a machine, Thanks for sharing your knowledge ,you are an outstanding professional in this field.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

You're welcome and thanks for the kind words. Steve

[@SLAVIKTELY]

I learned a lot today. Thanks for this video. Even though I don't have this machine yet but it was Very informative in every step of the way. I like those kind of tutorials.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Thanks Slavik, For those who do not know Slavik check out his channel. He make some of the nicest knives I have ever seen and you would be amazed at how he does it with the little machinery he does have. He is truly a master at his trade. kzbin.info/door/sCuMSw61beQuEpUOcvQOwg

[@James-fs4rn]

👍 those guys are fortunate to have a house call from you. Thanks for sharing.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Hi James, They are great guys and we fill fortunate to have them as friends. Steve

[@tomeyssen9674]

Steve, I just cant thank you enough for the incredible wealth of information on your videos....thanks to Rensetti also. Perfection is the goal. Thanks -T

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

You're welcome Tom. Steve

[@Randallvgc]

Great information to help me set up a Taft Pierce grinder I bought. Thanks!

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

You're welcome, I hope the Taft Pierce go well for you. Steve

[@DudleyToolwright]

Awesome video Steve. You are an endless fount of knowledge. I learned a ton on this video.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Thanks Robert, I was hoping you would see this video seeing we discussed this over the phone awhile back. A demonstration is always better in my opinion. Steve

[@ROBRENZ]

Good stuff Steve! enjoyed. ATB, Robin

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Thanks Robin. Steve

[@larrymorgan1040]

Whenever we had to pull a table off we always left the chuck on. Then when we put it back together we would put a large heavy plate on the chuck and do some heavy grinding removing at least 50 thousandths off the plate . This would make sure the table was seated well. then we would move to grinding the base and chuck. When grinding the chuck we would always use a new wheel. A new wheel with the larger diameter will not load up as fast and run cooler. I guess I missed the part where you talked about how important it is to make sure the grinder is level and solid on the floor.

[@gasparini76]

good professional. he knows what he was doing. top man

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Thanks for the kind words Andre. Steve

[@metalworksmachineshop]

Very good video. Thanks Steve.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Thanks and you're welcome. Steve

[@bclare2544]

Very informative video Steve and Adam.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Thanks B Clare. Steve

[@tristanhali8252]

Great video, thanks guys!

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Glad you enjoyed it! Steve

[@eleventeenmachine5991]

Excellent tips Steve! I learned plenty once again. I'll put the knowledge to use on my Boyar Schultz 618 when I tune it up next month. Thanks again.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

You're welcome, hope the Boyar Schultz tune up goes well for you. Steve

[@rennkafer13]

And I'll be employing them soon on my Boyar-Schultz 612 as well. Great bunch of tips.

[@eleventeenmachine5991]

@@SolidRockMachineShopInc Thanks Steve. I've already used it and it's pretty good. But I'd like to see better quality. Henry

[@stevecanny1583]

Really great video Steve! I learned an awful lot! :)

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Thanks. Steve

[@alfrednawrocki8061]

Cool ! Another great video and explanation!!!!

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Glad you liked it!

[@youcoulduseit7492]

That was cool, transformation complete. Looking like they got a great deal. soooo many tools can be made, modified, sharpened with that machine. If they dont have flat stones start there. I'm more of a automotive mechanic i wanted some mechanics flat stones for years. so i tried a #80 pcd cup wheel on a mini mill (seirious tram) and a homade arbor trued the wheel and got my flatstones in one smooth operation, no it actually worked rubbed em on a bmw block cylinder deck the other day that i thought had been rollocked to death but no the factory tool marks where even all the way across nother score

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Yes, I think that machine well do a nice job for Top Line. Steve

[@swanvalleymachineshop]

Great info . some really good points . Cheers .

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Thanks Max. Steve

[@bcbloc02]

Good walk thru of setting up one of these machines.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Thanks Brian. Steve

[@chandrahasan3225]

Steve you are a legend

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Now if I could only convince my wife of that. Steve

[@EmmaRitson]

very interesting as always

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Thanks Emma. Steve

[@orlandosanfeliz2956]

Congratulations that a very good job. 😊

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Thank you! 😃

[@barrygerbracht5077]

When you said someone would get killed, I was thinking the lathe operator would pound the crap out of the grinder hand for throwing sparks at him, not the lathe operator getting hit by thrown parts lol. Seems amazing that you could hold such tight tolerances with such rough looking equipment. Your knowledge and skill clearly demonstrates the grinder is a tool you need training on. It's not something you're just going to figure out.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Hi Barry, The grinder will definitely have to be moved for safety reason. Thanks for the kind words. Steve

[@pierresgarage2687]

@@SolidRockMachineShopInc A bad lock down or forgetting to mag the part happens to just about any even experienced operator, the once it happened to me good thing there was a guard and that the machines were in a safe arrangement, this draws attention even in a noisy shop... 🥶😨😱 You're absolutely right about that could be a killer....!!!!! Those aren't toys...!!!

[@bcbloc02]

@the machinist Doesn't really help though as I have slung parts off turned on chucks too.

[@pierresgarage2687]

@the machinist Guess If you got a bigger machine, you need a stronger fence, this is way above my league... Safety always has to be the number one issue on any machine, all mishaps happens so quickly...!!!

[@erik....]

I just bought a used grinder so this is useful.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

I hope it works out well for you. Steve

[@bulletproofpepper2]

Thanks for sharing. I didn’t know anything about grinders but had trouble with my 3D printer. A friend told me to stop using oil and to clean it and start using “super lube” it’s a food grade silicone grease. I couldn’t read what the Lucius grease you used was made from or what’s in it.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

I use white Lithium 2. Steve

[@outsidescrewball]

great video..lots of educational information...they might want to see where I installed a digital drop indicator on my grinders...much cheaper than a dro and works great....

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Thanks Chuck, Steve

[@donmichael6153]

Try GREEN GREASE the next time, the slickest grease I have ever found, works to minus 185 degrees F, to about 415 degrees F without any issues.

[@johnson2207]

I'm sure Kluber makes some super grease specifically for this application.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Thanks for the info. Steve

[@danvandertorre6349]

very informative as always thanks Steve, what RPM do surface grinders work at I was thinking of building one .

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

I believe these are at 3450 RPMS. Steve

[@peteroleary9447]

Building your own surface grinder would, IMO, be folly, as a recent series of YT videos on another channel proved. The more you know about them, the more you may come to realize this. That said, grinders of this size, (7" wheel) run at 3450RPM, as Steve said. Us hardcore pros use a VFD to vary speed as required. It makes us more productive.

[@danvandertorre6349]

thank you Steve I don't have the money but the one thing I do have is a lot of time a mill and metal lathe and a forge foundry all in one .

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

You're welcome Dan. Steve

[@nevetslleksah]

What wheel do you recommend when grinding in a mag chuck? Make, grit size, hardness? I have coolant on my surface grinder. Thanks.

[@peteroleary9447]

We like using Norton 46H for chuck grinding. I think they're only available in 32A aluminum oxide.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Hi Steven, The wheel that I liked best is no longer made. It was a Radiac 46.2 J. It was a 46 grit wheel with 2 percent finer grit added in. It was a great all around wheel. I prefer Radiac wheels I use an 8" diameter 1/2" thick 46 grit H or J hardness. You will find that the bonding between manufactures is not the same. A J wheel in one brand may be the same as an H in another brand. Right now I am using a Radiac RAA46JVOS with good results I may try a 9A in the future. I am still experimenting to see what come closes or beats the 46.2 wheel that I prefer Steve.

[@sawduster121212]

@@SolidRockMachineShopInc Have you come up with another wheel to replace the 46.2J? Thanks.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

@@sawduster121212 The best I have used so far is just a straight 46 J. Doesn't work as well but close enough. If I find one that is as good or better I will definitely mention it in future videos.

[@tomeyssen9674]

For the love of Pete! I cant remember the video on the cutoff wheel. I need to get one. -T

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Hi Tom, Is this the one you are thinking about? kzbin.info?o=U&video_id=ei7LL_GBe2s&ar=1570396005050

[@Patchworkdaddy007]

Omg! To check the Spindel you have to remove the grinding disc and measures the Spindel on the cone!

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

I wasn't checking run out, I was checking slop. Steve

[@beachboardfan9544]

Could those linear ball guides be replaced with linear rails with ball bearing carriages? Or are they less accurate than those oem ball guides?

[@TheOpinionationer]

Short answer: yes with some machining. I don't think there would be a big advantage to running linear rails as apposed to this system which is a typically 3 V's and a flat. The v-ways (which usually have replaceable hardened races) kinematically locate the bed with the help of gravity. Rails are often designed to take forces in more directions than this design which is an advantage for applications where that is needed (here it's not). On a surface grinder, it would complicate disassembly, and set up of the machine. You would also need very good rails to achieve the long term precision of 3 v's and a flat. Rails make more sense on the vertical axis of the machine.

[@TheOpinionationer]

Short answer: yes with some machining. I don't think there would be a big advantage to running linear rails as apposed to this system which is a typically 3 V's and a flat. The v-ways (which usually have replaceable hardened races) kinematically locate the bed with the help of gravity. Rails are often designed to take forces in more directions than this design which is an advantage for applications where that is needed (here it's not). On a surface grinder, it would complicate disassembly, and set up of the machine. You would also need very good rails to achieve the long term precision of 3 v's and a flat. Rails make more sense on the vertical axis of the machine.

[@trentwood1449]

How fast do surface grinders usually get up to speed? I'm used to pedestal grinders that reach max rpm somewhere around 5-10 seconds after starting up. The surface grinder at the shop, however, starts up lickedy split, probably under 2 seconds. To the point where I wonder if it's wired incorrectly, or if it is intended. Any insight, sir?

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

mine is almost instance. If you have a VDF you can change it to spin up slower.

[@maxcnc777]

Excellent content Steve! My old 618 is in dire need of some maintenance. I've been putting it off because I had alot of questions you addressed here. What wheel hardness do you like for the soft steel, table and magnet you ground here?

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Thanks Max, I was using an "I" but a "J" may be just a little better. The general rule is harder bonding for softer steel and softer bonding for harder steel. You will have to experiment because each wheel manufacturer has there own recipe and the bonding may act different between manufactures. Steve

[@samterian7694]

dude, first thing is to clean the dust around table, once you expose the bearing to open air any dust will work its way into the system

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

We had no issues with grinding dust here Sam.

[@trentwood1449]

Howdy Steve! Just took off the table of the surface grinder at work. We were missing half the balls on our flat rail side... Any who, our linear ball cages seems to be made of nylon and are connected together like children's wooden railroad tracks. It does not have screws in the ball bearing cage at all, unlike the one seen in this video. Is this grinder's ball bearing cage made of plastic or metal, and what is more common? Thanks in advance for your response sir! Trent

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Hi Trent, All of them I have seen are made out of Nylon type material. Steve

[@trentwood1449]

@@SolidRockMachineShopInc Thank you for your response, sir! Do you mind answering a couple more? What grade of ball bearing is acceptable for you 200, 100, 25? And is good ol' AISI 52100 alloy good enough or should I spring for some hardened 440c stainless?

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

@@trentwood1449 Those questions are above my pay grade. I would see if you could replacement ones from the manufacture.

[@trentwood1449]

@@SolidRockMachineShopInc Rock on!

[@trentwood1449]

@@SolidRockMachineShopInc Steve! Can't thank you enough for this and countless other videos. Got the grinder back together at work, ground the cast iron base as you said, then the bottom of the mag chuck the same way. Went ahead and checked my mag chuck on the surface plate for flatness with some machinist jacks and it was flat within a tenth or two. Gonna' grind the top of it tomorrow and it's off to the races! Thanks again sir!! Trent

[@7891ph]

Definitely an old school grinder hand; anything he and I might quibble over would most likely be down to the opinions of the guys who trained us back in the day. I will say that with just what I've seen here that he's much more of a grinding pro than I am; my career has always been in machining, but I've bounced around quite a bit, jack of all trades, master of none style. The video barely touched the basics, let alone the in deep on grinding. Good work otherwise. :-):-):-)

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

This video was not meant to be an in depth grinding tutorial. We can't cover everything in one video but we cover a lot of grinding on this channel in numerous videos. When taken together we cover quite a bit. There will be plenty more to come in the future as well. Steve

[@TheDesroXXX]

You are zero boy ....

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

What does that mean?

[@jacktheaviator4938]

If someone is "sliding" parts across a ground surface, such as a mag chuck, they have no business in a machine shop. If they have done it enough to cause wear in the surface, they should be hung. Don't be lazy, PLACE parts on ANY precision surface, be it a chuck, a vice, or a fixture. That is first day apprentice stuff.

[@markshort9098]

It's not a matter of being lazy, parts are slid on to make sure the part isn't sitting on any dust

[@jacktheaviator4938]

@@markshort9098 that's why you clean surfaces before you place part, like I said, first day apprentice stuff

[@markshort9098]

@@jacktheaviator4938 yep clean the surface and by the time you turn around there's dust on there again.. losing 0.0005 or so off a mag chuck a year is just part of the cost of working to such fine tolerances, the best tool manufacturers say to always slid the part on the chuck and the surface plate to insure there's no dust under the part but what would people who have been working in millionths for over 50 years know about precision