someone here isn't queer 🏳️‍🌈 🤨

hey peaches, come watch this Jubilee video with us, we have no idea how to feel about it 😅 wanna be a member? grab a backstage pass! www.youtube.co...
HEY LET'S BE INTERNET FRIENDS:
Instagram @sherbetlemon007
Twitter @sherbetlemon007
TikTok @sherbetlemon007
Twitch @shaabaandjamie
Our site: shaabaandjamie . c o m
Jamie's channel: ‪@Jammidodger‬
Our gaming channel: ‪@shaabaandjamie‬
Be kind and have a great day (:

[@shaaba]

happy pride peaches!! you can take a look at the T in LGBT right here lnk.to/TheTinLGBT x

[@neeskeskneesk4004]

Happy Pride

[@faenene]

Very happy pride 😊

[@mammadingo9165]

Ah now I know why I liked you straight away and why you popped up in my feed , your friends with that jammy dodger Jamie 😊✌️✨🦋🌻

[@DesOkun]

@@mammadingo9165 She is married to him. =^_^=

[@loud479]

Am I downstairs now?

[@bonniejosephine381]

"am i lgbt+ based on my tattoos?" "no but you are, based on your sexuality" i died laughing at that

[@irisamelia9787]

I loved that.

[@nuntiuslibera]

Perfect. Literally, like Im not auditioning for a social club. This whole jubilee show is 🙄

[@lucasgarcia8986]

LOL that part made me laugh a lot especially because my bestfriend is a tattoo artist and one of the moderators showed their tattoos that looked undone and lacked shading, depth, etc.... I can't even make a judgement based claim on tattoos especially if your example are tattoos that look like they are undone and need work... LMAO

[@GrimBeakington]

A top tier r/technicallythetruth moment

[@neeskeskneesk4004]

As a non-binary person I'm annoyed by this, and completely agree with Shaaba and Jamie, that it comes across as other-ing of us.

[@rae5750]

Fellow non binary person here. I feel the same!

[@rayne_drops]

I'm a non-binary person and I feel the same about this.

[@missnaomi613]

I'm the mama of a non-binary bean, and this really bothered me, too!

[@neeskeskneesk4004]

@ville__ As I stated it is other-ing us. It is putting non-binary people outside of the LGBTQAI+ umbrella, as if we are not part of the community, when we very much are. The non-binary person in the video might not 'feel' queer, but that should have been stated in the video.

[@wintergray1221]

Yes! Nonbinary and ace and I would still call myself queer.

[@shirasade]

As someone who's aro-ace I also felt uncomfortable with the result. Even if a person doesn't identify with the term queer, I still think it's a valid umbrella term for LGBT+ people of all stripes, and one that I personally I appreciate a lot because it's so inclusive.

[@unknone8155]

I agree that I am a bit uncomfortable with the whole premise of this episode. For me and the community of LGBTQIA+ people I hang out with, we use Queer as a word that covers the whole community and as a bi-romantic ace I identify as queer. So I thought it was a bit odd when I came to realize that it sounded like they were purely equating queer to gay/lesbian.

[@thischannelisdead9]

I haven't watch the video yet but oml I am so sorry 😭😭 it's so gross how STILL aro and ace spec people are left of of the community. Shit like this just shows how y'all are still just as oppressed as any of us, and deserve the label if you want to use it.

[@veronicafoxx8590]

I'm trans, ace, and demiromantic (which is on the aro spectrum), and I'm as queer as the day is long. It's not as if anyone ever believes we exist to begin with, and I'm already getting lopped off the acronym by some people because of the T. We have to stand together or we all fall alone. Othering our rainbow siblings, enby ones included, bisexuals included, EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO BE INCLUDED, is the way to destruction. They're coming for us all. Also, saying that enbys "aren't automatically queer" is a nasty thing to say. The point of the rainbow community is INCLUSION. Edit: having now watched the video... I'm not sure how to feel about this. Mostly I feel sick and disgusted. This is not what we should be doing. Wtf.

[@veronicafoxx8590]

@Ville Your question is vague. Please elaborate.

[@christinewarden3450]

​​@Ville aromanticism has to do with romance and love, asexuality has to do with sex and sexuality, you can be ace and still be romantic, or you can be aro and still have sex, that's the most basic definition

[@gduffey2615]

I think the big problem with the Jubilee video was that it never defined what the producers meant when they used the word "queer", which led to a lot of different interpretations by the participants. My assumption was that "queer" was being used as a stand-in for LGBTQ+, so a "not queer" person is someone who isn't a member of that community (someone cis/het/allo). I agree with Shaaba and Jamie that the way they did this could have been an interesting educational moment on the use of the word queer, but ultimately fell short. Instead, to me, it just felt like they were pitting a bunch of LGBTQ+ people against each other for no reason, which felt gross.

[@ProudPlatypus]

Pretty sure it was deliberately ambiguous for entertainment purposes. So they could have the entertainment of people looking for the cishet person, but also try and include the discussion around the use of the term queer, so they could have the twist at the end that everyone here is part of the community teehee. The discussion is very free form and not well organised, some of the views expressed around trans people weren't great, so it ended up just coming off as very dismissive at the end. If they were going for entertainment and educational they leaned so heavily into the entertainment that it fucked up the education part.

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

I guess the question is, was that the point? Was the whole entire point to highlight how different people can all define what is or isn't "queer" very differently? (And was it or was it not intended to actually be educational?) And _DID_ the producers actually define it at all, or merely leave it up to the contestants themselves to declare if they were or weren't "queer" when they agreed to participate, rather than recruiting people to participate based on whether or not they did or didn't meet the producers' own definitions of "queer" or "not queer"? 🤔🤔

[@ihopeicanchangethisnamelat7108]

To me it was like, they grouped a bunch of lgbtq+ people together and told them one of them wasn’t queer (as in the term used more generally as basically a synonym for lgbt+ when you want to say the same thing but 5 syllables shorter) when what it really was was one of them wasn’t queer (as in the term used to describe an individual’s identity, so they weren’t comfortable being described as queer). So they were all looking for someone who was cishet, and there was never any indication that that wasn’t what they meant, and decided that the non-binary bisexual person was cishet (without saying that they were like pretending to be either of those things. It was very much like saying that gender and sexuality did not count as being lgbt+). And then they were all talking about their sexualities to try and find out who it was rather than like their experiences of labels and the language they like to use, there was like under a minute of that, which is what would have counted if it was in the ‘what word(s) you’re comfortable with being used to describe your lgbt-ness’ way, implying that they meant the word ‘queer’ to mean ‘not cishet’, and therefore that being non-binary and/or bisexual makes you cishet.

[@Whateverhasbeenmynameforyears]

Yeah this is my problem with every one of there videos. I had not put my finger on it until now though.

[@ari_mitchell]

It could have been an interesting education moment, but it was just- pointless and just didn’t sit right with me, and it seems many other people as well

[@AccidentallyOnPurpose]

Yeah, right off the bat I'm not comfortable with them using queer to mean gay. You can be cishet and be queer if you are asexual/demisexual.

[@The_Enby_Zev]

Yes, Queer just means not allo, cis, and het! Not just not het!! people seem to forget this constantly!

[@CodaBlairLucarioEmperor]

Not just ace, but also aro

[@adrienstarfaer]

I always sort of mentally grouped cishet as automatically also being allo, if you're ace or aro, I never really qualified that as het. Yk? But I absolutely see where you're coming from.

[@AccidentallyOnPurpose]

@@adrienstarfaer Ace and aro mean you don't experience sexual and romantic attraction respectably. This has absolutely nothing to do with which gender(s) you are attracted to. You can be strictly heterosexual and fall on the spectrum.

[@unapologeticallylizzy]

Yep, queer = LGBT+

[@melima_]

I kind of struggle with Elizabeths explanation of now identifying more as queer than bisexual bc two of her partners are trans?? Bisexual has and will always include trans people? Edit: 17:40 exactly!!! As a bi person this enrages me sooo much, saying bisexuality doesn't include trans people and people beyond the binary, is biphobic and transphobic

[@sagieaesir13]

exactly! I'm not bisexual myself but I have bi friends and I describe myself as pan, and we love each other and support and know that being bi doesn't exclude trans people. also, has none of these people in the video even HEARD of the Bisexual Manifesto? from my understanding (which could be wrong, please let me know if I am) it's like a bi bible lol

[@neeskeskneesk4004]

Yes! As the 90s manifesto states: “Do not assume that bisexuality is binary or duogamous in nature: that we have “two” sides or that we must be involved simultaneously with both genders to be fulfilled human beings. In fact, don’t assume that there are only two genders”. It was my aha! reading that as a wtf-am-I 90s teen.

[@trinitybernhardt9944]

I have seen several videos like this, and almost all of them include the idea that bisexuals are transphobic and it is almost always someone saying "I don't consider myself bisexual, because..." it is maddening!

[@Shoulderpads-mcgee]

No one in the box knows a lick of queer history

[@WhatWouldLubitschDo]

This was my issue with the wine analogy explanation of pansexuality on Schitt’s Creek. I thought it heavily implied that being pan means being into “men, women, AND trans people!” besides completely fluffing the analogy in describing what a trans person is… Seems, from what I hear, that it helped a lot of people struggling to explain things to their parents or very straight siblings, but I didn’t love it.

[@captainfinn64]

As someone that has been constantly referred to as 'straight passing' I would hate to be put on this and be voted off first and have my sexuality be completely invalidated based on a ton of stereotypes...

[@yoyopron]

For real. I've identified as queer for my entire adult life, but somehow I give off so many straight vibes that I got mistaken for straight *at pride.*

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

@@yoyopron ... Are straight allies not allowed to also attend Pride events, though?

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

The thing is, your sexuality isn't actually validated or invalidated based on how immediately other people can or can't identify it at a glance or from the outside looking in. Your sexuality is validated or invalidated only from what does or doesn't exist within _YOU_ / on the inside looking out. 🙂

[@yoyopron]

@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 Yes, they are. The person I was talking to just assumed I was straight, which is a weird assumption to make about someone at a pride event.

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

@@yoyopron I mean, it's kind of weird[ in my opinion] to ever make any assumptions about anyone when you don't actually know them, no matter where at. But, yeah, fair enough-I suppose.

[@The_Enby_Zev]

I absolutely hated when that one person said that just because you're nonbinary, you're not automatically queer. Like, yes tf you are (unless you as an individual don't like the term queer, but nonbinary still qualifies as queer). Queer is quite literally just not allo, cis and het. (Also, even if you want to go the sexuality way, it is nearly impossible to be strictly straight while being nonbinary, so fuck off). Yes, genderqueer is its own term, but it is a subset of queer nonetheless. And yes I know the point of this is to doubt what you're told, but just dismissing a whole part of the definition of queer is not a part of that. (/nm at Shabba/Jamie, just at whichever person said that and people who dismiss whole identities because the definition doesn't fit your view of the term)

[@SODALITE_art]

Thank you for saying this, I was so confused when the person said that nonbinary isn't queer

[@user-yr7dp5du5l]

So true i was going into the comments to see if anyone said it

[@dragonsarebutterflies3663]

​​@@user-yr7dp5du5l yeah me too. I am a bit confused jamie and shaaba havent said anything about that. Edit: they did at the end, lol

[@elizabethstover3033]

Literally though

[@EamonWill]

​@@dragonsarebutterflies3663 They did talk about it. They did comment on how being non-binary puts you under the QUILT BAG umbrella but that this person might not call themselves queer. Queer Undecided Intersex Lesbian Trans Bisexual Ace/Aero Gay

[@poolboyatvampiremansion]

As a agender person who also uses nonbinary and queer to describe myself, I wish they specified that queer doesn't just mean gay. They made it sound like if you're nonbinary you're not queer

[@buchelaruzit]

yeah, the fact that not only did 'queer' mean 'gay' for all the queer people in this video, but also that the designated non-queer person wasn't even straight to be consistent with that, but was another type of queer, just makes it a double-punch

[@onelusciouslad7841]

Fr, "Being non-binary doesn't necessarily mean you're queer" Um, yes.. it does. ??

[@jennifers5560]

I am one of those older ones (52) that never used the word “queer”. It was a huge slur. I mean if you were out somewhere and heard that word, you would be afraid and be ready to run. Over the past several years (and lots of KZbin videos) I have come to actually like that it is being reclaimed. I like it as an inclusive word to cover everyone in the community. If I am talking about myself, I will say I am a lesbian, but if I am talking about myself as part of a group, I will say I am queer. I kind of like not being afraid of that word anymore.

[@shaaba]

Thanks for sharing, I love that this language evolution has allowed you to feel safer and less fearful of something that should only bring you pride 🌈✨

[@jennifers5560]

@@shaaba exactly!

[@kamianya]

…wait, so a non-binary person was “the mole”??? Wtf? I’m REALLY uncomfortable about that result

[@science_bear]

Why?

[@kamianya]

@@science_bear I’m non-binary, and very queer. But as a non-binary person I often get disbelief from both binary trans and cis people.

[@science_bear]

@@kamianya you know who Anderson Aldrich is right?

[@kamianya]

@@science_bear ….and I no longer believe you are asking in good faith and will no longer be responding. Bye.

[@science_bear]

@@kamianya of course you won’t respond when I bring up an inconvenient truth.

[@ashleykabbes9316]

I am a feme afab nonbinary (agender) person who identifies as Bi and is married to a cis straight man. Since I am cua straight passing and literally nobody knows I'm queer unless I tell them, I felt othered by this because I felt like I wouldn't be considered a "real" queer person. It feels like the game had good intentions but just felt like everyone was judging how queer each other was. And I felt just like the Nonbinary person in this kicked out of the queer space.

[@borealernadelwald]

I'm also an afab agender (neutral to feminine presenting) and aro/ace. I do call myself queer, but after watching the video I feel like some people might not see it that way either. But I'm very inexperienced being in the lgbtq+ community since I only really figured myself out in the past few years, even though I'm already in my thirties. So I can't say how well this video translates into real life. I only talk to a couple of friends, they mostly know about my identity but they are all cishet. I wish there wasn't so much excluding in a community that fights for inclusion.

[@ashleykabbes9316]

@@borealernadelwald I just figured myself out too!! I'm also still new at navigating the spaces!! And with you being aro ace I'm sure you may feel excluded in that way as well!!! I love communities like this that remind us that we are all valid and we all have the right to be our true selves!!! 💖💖💖

[@leaink9981]

how can he be straight if you are non-binary ?

[@Jigglypowerpuffgirl]

I’m sorry this video felt othering. I know I’m just a stranger on the internet, but I feel you belong 🫶🏻 I have also felt that way as a straight passing bi cis woman and it’s shitty.

[@JennaGetsCreative]

Exactly! I'm demisexual panromantic and afab non-binary (demigirl) but married to a very cishet allo man and we have a child. Nobody would guess I'm queer if I don't announce it in some way. Doesn't make me not queer. Honestly, it's hard being "demi" anything. I'm demisexual, but some aces don't see kinship with me because I'm not totally ace. I'm panromantic, but so many people who aren't het just see me as het and trying to be cool because I married my "cis opposite." Many people who are more complexly or loudly or androgenously non-binary see my loose fem grounding as a demigirl, recognize that it matches my afab body, and tell me I'm cis.

[@teamakesitok]

I'm transmasc and I'm still on the waiting list for medical transition. Being pre-everything, I feel SO uncomfortable hearing trans people othered in their comments about attraction. It's already so hard to feel like I'm "trans enough" because I can't access transition yet, but hearing people constantly make the distinction between men and trans men really hurts.

[@dontbesuspicious1418]

Hey just want to let you know in case it helps, but you saying that you’re trans is enough for me and so many other people to see you as trans period. You are enough and completely valid in your gender identity. I’m so sorry that they othered trans people. Also in case you need to be reassured, there are cis people who will not other people based on gender and sexual identity. Wishing you the best on your journey!!!!! ❤❤❤❤

[@trevorcook3129]

Because biologically you’ll never be a man, trans man is a more accurate description. Words have meanings beyond feelings. Sorry but that’s how it is..

[@veronicafoxx8590]

This whole thing has made me sick to my stomach with disgust. Saying that enbys are not automatically queer, the othering, the... I can't even describe all the ways that this made me feel nasty. I feel like they would have excluded me for a variety of reasons, and i would not have felt safe in a group that doesn't include anyone who eants to be under the rainbow by default. I am utterly disgusting, and i hate feeling like that when you two were doing the video.

[@Shoulderpads-mcgee]

If it makes you feel any better, this group of people are outliers and iirc everyone in the comments of that video are clowning on them for their terrible logic. And this comment section as well. Most people believe we belong

[@veronicafoxx8590]

@@Shoulderpads-mcgee I'm trans and aro-ace rather than enby, but there's such hate out there for me as I am that this just hit me right in the gut, especially with the LGB Alliance and Gays Against Groomers saying that the mere fact of my existence is harmful to children... It IS good to know that very few people agree with then, though.

[@neomawzz]

Literally

[@jewels3400]

I use queer as a short synonym for LGBTQ+ so I was genuinely confused. To me, "queer," doesn't mean, "homosexual." Though, that's what they were talking about. I just assumed this was a situation where everyone was using the wrong word for a thing because that's just what was happening. Like saying, "literally," when it's not appropriate. Just for vibes. But still, after that, "words matter," half-speech, I question my assumption. just be clear that queer can be used in a variety of ways, that doesn't cancel each other out. Not in the long run.

[@Shoulderpads-mcgee]

@@jewels3400 no but you’re right. Queer encompasses all of us and the people in that box are awful

[@Meloony13]

I think Jamie's reaction shows just how important words can be. A grown man with great social support can be made that visibly uncomfortable, so imagine the impact on young people without as much social support. Think carefully about the language you use everyone! :)

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

Yeah, but language also hits very differently for different people. That's why not everyone describes the same things using all the same exact words-and not everyone using the same exact words are actually using those specific words to describe the same exact things. What makes one person that visibly uncomfortable may just roll off another person like water off a duck's back. There can be a pretty fine line sometimes between encouraging people to choose their words carefully and policing people's freedom of speech/expression, honestly.

[@trevorcook3129]

That’s because Jamie isn’t a man. Still biologically female. A man wouldn’t react like that. Emotion is hidden in men. A trait that’s helped mankind continue for a long time

[@somethinunameit637]

Honestly they could have kept the whole video, and named it "who isn't queer?" Or something, and explained that they have chosen 7 LGBTQIA+ people, and 6 of them identify as queer. And that might have made things less uncomfortable. Because they wouldn't be othering non-queer LGBTQIA+ people at the end.

[@buchelaruzit]

that would still have been stupid because anyone can identify or not with the word regardless of your identity... like what would that game even mean? just asking them directly???? or make assumptions that betray what identities one sees as 'less queer', like non-binary people or aspec people?

[@somethinunameit637]

@buchelaruzit they could have focused more on the history of the word queer, some LGBTQIA+ people still have negative feelings around the word because of its history as a slur

[@katies3733]

I'm actually so angry at this jubilee video that I need to comment twice. My first one to complain that queer can be an umbrella term for all lgbt+ people and here it was pretty much used as synonym for gay and thats exclusive to all the people who identify as queer but not gay. And my second complaint is that nonbinary people can identify however they want but gay and straight are infinitely harder to think about for me as a nonbinary person. Because I feel like most people are trying to compare the persons current gender presentation, in the binary, to tell if they are "gay or straight". And that is also presumptuous and you don't have my permission to do that even if this one nonbinary human was fine with it.

[@anonanon1597]

Thank you so much for putting this into words! I am a closeted, very feminine presenting, nonbinary person who has only felt comfortable with the label queer so far. I was really struggling to figure out why I was upset at the jubilee video on a deeper level. I genuinely think this comment may have sparked my next round of introspection on my identity. Thank you!

[@TheKewlPerson]

Yeah It just feels wrong to label them as not being gay because they like women and may be perceived more masculine than feminine bc of the facial hair, even though that shouldn't mean anything in terms of their gender

[@kiarimarie]

The trans comments were quite odd! Your partner doesn't need to be cis for you to be straight. I understand how its easier for trans people to date bi/pan/queer people, but they can have cishet partners. If I saw Jamie on the street and was like "oh that guy's a cutie", I'm still straight.

[@JamiJR]

This reminds me of a reality show pitched on Tumbler. The idea was a Big Brother type house where it's supposed to be a bunch of straight men and one gay man living together and they were supposed to hide their sexual orientation from each other, live together for awhile, then whomever guessed correctly who the gay one is won a bunch of money. The twist was - all the men in the house were straight.

[@Arosukir6]

Omfg, my partner and I thought of this, too! Shoot, I thought we were the first 🤣🤣 Though we would do it as a parody of reality shows rather than something sincere.

[@alex_blue5802]

It would be much funnier if they were all gay pretending to be straight.

[@fragglegoth]

@@alex_blue5802 That's the version I've heard described before.

[@millynocito7958]

​@@alex_blue5802please I need this

[@lanfae9353]

So... nobody in the group wasn't queer. A nonbinary polyamorous person is definitely queer!! This is so bizarre. Thank you for your commentary on it

[@RvEijndhoven]

The point, I think, that the video was trying to make is that 'queer' means different things to different people. Devens doesn't _identify_ as queer. They're an amab nonbinary person attracted only to men and they don't think that the term queer describes them. That's valid. To say that Devens is queer when they don't self-identify that way is similar to (but categorically *not* the same as, since it doesn't come from a place of hate,) some transphobe saying that transmen are women because they fit the transphobe's definition of 'woman'. I will acknowledge that it did a poor job of getting that message across, but still...

[@lanfae9353]

@@RvEijndhoven While I would never force the label onto someone for their personal use if they don't want it, queer IS an umbrella term in academia for the entire community. The study of LGBTQIA+ people and identities is called "queer studies." It would be like someone saying "I'm not Black, I'm African-American." I would never suggest that they need to change the word they best self-identify with, but saying that such a person "isn't Black" is just incorrect even if they prefer not to use that term. At the very least, the show should've used a more specific term like "gay" (since it seems like all the others are gay while Devens is bi) that we can argue has a specific meaning that they don't fit, though even then, gay is also an umbrella term, so I'd still be uncomfortable with that. The only way this setup really would've worked would be if the imposter were a straight cis allo person

[@hopestarr9869]

Yeah Jubilee’s video definitely had a lot of yikes moments in it. Even just the first “on a scale of 1 to 10 how gay are you” thing felt super weird to me when it’s a video that presumably could have all types of queer people, not just gay people. Like, as a bi person, my first instinct is to say “well I’m bi, not gay, so 0?” Obviously some bi people use gay as a catch-all term or because it still feels comfortable for them, etc, but as someone who doesn’t it’s a weird precedent for the video to set. Ultimately the video creators were responsible for moderating this environment and combating any misinformation or misuse of language when it popped up so that unknowledgeable viewers don’t walk away from the video absorbing all of the concepts as fact. Especially with a corporate content creator, I feel like they failed on the responsibility they have here. I did enjoy watching you guys react to it though and give your thoughts, I’d be up for more of these

[@mx.acacia]

Yeah and it was so sexuality focused but trans people are also queer so shouldn't there also have been questions about gender and transness? Like a straight trans person isn't less queer than a gay cis person! And its just soo telling of this only-sexuality-counts-bias that the (seemingly) only trans person there was the "fake".

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

Is it really the responsibility of the creators to moderate the conversation or language usage, though, when it's essentially just a social experiment which takes an extremely small sample of society and puts it in petri dish and showcases it for everybody to study and/or draw their own conclusions about[ or open their own discussions about]?. 🤔 🤔 I'm not sure. And is it really their job to police what audiences' own takeaways are or aren't either? Isn't that honestly the job of audiences themselves to do their own research and/or to not take the views or opinions of individuals[ or individual participants] as fact, nor necessarily even as reflective of the views or opinions of[ or officially endorsed by] the jubilee channel/producers/etcetera itself/themselves? 🤷 🤷‍♀️

[@buchelaruzit]

yeah, the incredibly out-of-touch and shallow idea that queer==gay set the level of the video from the get-go. straight trans people? aspec people?? being queer does not require/mean being attracted to the same gender. especially with the focus on sex and genitals present here

[@samarnadra]

I think the 1-10 gayness was a reference to the Kinsey Scale. Which means someone who is bi or pan would be in the middle somewhere, and an ace; would be X. It is flawed, but it can be a way to be like "I mostly like the same sex but occasionally find a member of the opposite sex attractive," or "I find them about equally attractive," or "I mostly like the opposite sex, but some people of my same sex are attractive" or "what are you all talking about? no one is attractive in that way" just in fewer words. I do think the show would have excluded straight trans people and heteroromantic aces as well, and that is a major problem. I'm aroace and I think I would have just confused them to no end.

[@pencilpauli9442]

I'm very ashamed to say that as a cishet male who grew up in the 70s I used the word "queer" as a pejorative. I know James Somerton discussed "LBGTQ+" as having issues, and doesn't exactly trip of the tongue, but I don't feel I have the right to use "queer". Too many negative associations of the word associated to hate and bigotry. I'm not that young idiot any more. I'm an older idiot. But hopefully now with a lot more compassion and understanding.

[@RenaRain]

We love compassion and understanding!

[@BaddeGrasse]

Thank you so much for watching videos like this, it genuinely has a positive effect on us youngins to see people in adulthood actively working on expanding their understandings of things along with us ❤

[@katbairwell]

We are much of a generation, when I was young (in the UK) the word Queer was wielded like a weapon against a community that was grieving, and trying to live, through the AIDS crisis. If you don't feel that you have the "right" to use Queer, then I think your principles do you credit. You've done the hard-yards of self reflection, your path to allyship has been a rough one, but you are here with us now, solidarity

[@cexilady3333]

Thank you for learning and growing. I hope more people do like you ❤

[@SerenitySoonish]

My cishet dad says the same thing, he is in his 50s and only ever learned queer as a slur until now, so even though for me I tell him queer is a more inclusive widely used word now and it's a word I self identify with the most, he can't use it. As long as people don't try to invalidate our use of it, I don't care if they don't feel comfortable saying it for that reason. If a word I perceive as a bad slur towards others suddenly was told to me to be a good word to use, I also wouldn't feel comfortable using it, at least not for many years.

[@barbaram5769]

I had such a huge problem with Travis in this video, even more so than Elizabeth. Elizabeth seemed to really innocently be saying things and just not putting across what she wanted to; it seemed like blissful ignorance and she reminded me of teenage me getting into queer spaces and not being fully in the know. Travis' ignorance felt a lot more wilful. Right off the bat he asked about the scale of gayness, which just immediately made me feel othered, as someone who is on the ace spectrum who is romantically attracted to all genders. It was really uncomfortable. Then he had the whole 'golden gay' thing and felt very comfortable in saying which elements of the others he didn't find to be queer, which I know was the point but he just had the least tact. The last thing that really bothered me was, when Devens was saying why they don't identify as queer, Travis jumped right on "the man part" being the lie when Devens isn't a man, they're a non-binary person. Everyone else seemed to get that Devens simply didn't like the label of queer while Travis seemed fully ready to say that a masc presenting NB person attracted to women isn't queer. Idk he just gave me big ick.

[@bob8mybobbob]

I feel like the ending was rules lawyering. I thought they were using queer as an umbrella term, but instead it only counted if someone specifically identified with that label? I guess that’s a good lesson on respecting someone’s labels, but literally the only way to know what labels someone is comfortable with is by asking…

[@paulhammond6978]

Yeah - that basically makes the game impossible because the "non-queer" person was meant to lie about it.

[@TransGuyShane]

Jamie saying shaaba is beautiful was super cute 😍 I hope editing shaaba noticed his sweetness ❤️ Happy pride everyone 💓

[@ElaaraWylder]

I'm an older generation (57 years young!) cis female who is a strong and supportive ally. I had a few "ick" moments as well and I think they def missed the mark by not calling a non-binary person "not" queer. Jamie I am so sorry that parts of this made you feel othered and I hope that they see the two of you and take your feedback to heart when and if they decide to do this experiment again. Happy Pride! ❤🧡💛💚💙💜

[@Ecto_42]

Honestly as someone in the camp of "it's easier to just say I'm queer than to explain the entirety of my personhood." I feel like the inclusion of a lot of identities across the board is good, but at the same time queer traditionally means like "strange; odd" and I could see not wanting to use that term particularly for someone who wants to fit into a more specific box. I don't know how to feel about the issue at hand though that they mostly refer to nonbinary and trans people as this like "other" in regards to sexuality. Personally I refer to myself as pan because I'm nonbinary and want to encapsulate essentially all consenting adults into that group.

[@divergentdreamer]

Fun etymological note! Queer was first used around 1390 as a verb meaning "to ask or inquire," which is where we get the word "query" from, as well as "enquire." In the 1500s, it began to be used to refer to counterfeit currency, which led to the word meaning something that's untrustworthy. Around the same time, it began meaning something that's unusual, which we can see sort of connected to the idea of counterfeit. Queer began referring to non-heteronormation sexual and gender identities around the late 1800s. So, although it has those connections to being "weird" or "counterfeit," I really like the idea that "queer" came from questioning and thinking about it in terms of the queer person who is questioning and fighting against heteronormativity.

[@PokhrajRoy.]

It’s the Collab we need more of in the world. Jamie aced Shaaba’s intro.

[@CowKirbo]

They are married so it's quite possibly the most common collab.

[@rawr1131]

I’m ace and sometimes use the word queer for myself. It gives me a sense of happiness and belonging. And it unites me with people from other non cishet identities. But I don’t have an issue with people not liking the label for themselves. Nor do I have problem with Jubilee showing that not everyone uses the label. What I do have an issue with though is that Jubilee presented the video as if it was a challenge to find the cishet person among the non cishet people and then they chose their “impostor” to be a person who literally has a non cishet identity and were just like “ha ha twist, they aren’t queer because they don’t identify with the label” Are you kidding me? The whole video was full of people tearing down other identities and gatekeeping who is gay enough to be LGBTQ+ and then you used your platform to enforce that gatekeeping as your non lgbtq+ person was someone who would literally fall under the community if they chose to identify with it.

[@missionquestthing]

I basically just posted the same thing.

[@meluvfriends]

"No...but you are based on your sexuality" 😂😂❤ I have no clue why that made me giggle lol Jamies comeback was just so quick. Love yall

[@miloudvt]

you guys are so fucking cute together, literally fav couple on the internet

[@roowyrm9576]

I've recently discovered that 2 of my "friends" are virulently transphobic. One is a woman who is a major TERF, and proud of it. She is so toxic against trans women. The thing that has happened recently which hasn't made her question things, if anything it's made her worse, is that her teen daughter has moved out from her mother's home to live with her father - because he is now her son... and my "friend" cannot cope with it either, furious that they are "denying her womanhood". The other is a gay man who believes that there is a conspiracy within the queer community to force "real" gay men to accept and have relationships with "pretend" men. He believes it is part of the LGBTQI+ community agenda to force acceptance of trans people and to ostracise men or women who refuse to accept trans people. He is trying to start a group of "real gay men". I feel very torn, because both have been good, dear friends, but I do know that neither of them are open to any form of education or discussion. I don't think I can accept this from them, so I think, sadly, that I am going to have to lose both friendships. I have other dear friends who are trans, gender-fluid and non-binary, and these two people would deny their right to exist. I am Pan/Ace myself, identifying as cis queer.

[@RenaRain]

I'm so, so sorry. It's really painful when dear friends unexpectedly show those kinds of colors.

[@laurelelasselin]

I think I understand. One of my friends, who seemed supportive or at least tolerant of the LGBTQ+ community, has recently been posting some very homophobic and transphobic stuff on social media (the typical 'queer people are pedos' BS). I'm just trying to ignore her now because A) I don't know how to confront her, I'm not good at that and get anxious and B) we have common friends and I really don't want to lose them as well or break up other people's friendships, even if they are friends with assholes. Although I don't know if those friends have stopped being friends with her now though; I haven't talked to them in a while. (I'm pangender and aroace, by the way) (edit: spelling)

[@samarnadra]

Some people are open to learning and growing and accepting people for who they are, and not being hateful... and some are not. If you genuinely think this is something they can grow past and learn to be better people, and you are able to help them on that road without harm to your own mental health or safety, then as a long-time friend you may be in a good position to nudge them down that path. If they won't change or you can't fill that role, you are likely better off accepting they aren't the people you became friends with anymore, and distancing yourself from them. I wasn't nearly that bad, but I was raised to think everything lgbt was horribly sinful and such, when I heard about lgbt stuff at all. I didn't hear about lgbt _people_ as much as _behaviors_ as a result. But I was willing to learn and grow and I made a gay friend at college unexpectedly and he was cool and I learned that gay people are cool. Once that broke, the rest of that mindset started to crumble (I also found out D&D wasn't evil around the same time, so a lot was changing for me). Some people change. Some people won't. Don't make yourself sick trying to change the ones who won't. But give the ones who are willing a chance if you can. Personally these two don't sound willing, but maybe you know things about them I don't.

[@AnAmelieAnomaly]

I couldn't make it through this one because the Jubilee video was giving me internalized gatekeeping anxiety. I'm a nonbinary ace and it really feels like I wouldn't be queer enough to be queer.

[@ruskadrew]

I'm here for both of y'all! Because y'all are adorable. Also, I agree that Devens is heckin' cute. 😂 And that they should count under the queer umbrella. It's such a BS loophole to find a nonbinary person the way they did. Especially since the umbrella term is what was being used here. People were saying they are bisexual, polysexual, gay, etc. They all fall under the queer umbrella but no one is solely identifying as queer in this video. It's not the first time they've done a loophole one. I wanna say their autism one has a loophole since the person who didn't have it had a different neurodivergent diagnosis that is often mistaken as autism and vice versa.

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

I guess, the question is exactly how specifically or intentionally did they curate it that way, OR was it legit just the way the cookie crumbled when asking random people off the sidewalk or wherever "Are you queer?" / "Would you be willing to participate in this video for youtube?" or such. ?? 🤔

[@mimthyss]

The thing ab it being a loophole one - yes, absolutely. I think the reason they do these loophole ones for more potentially sensitive subjects like autism or lgbtq+ folks is because of the fact that like in this vid, a straight person pretending to be gay would probably be much more "ick". Which these 2 talked about in their commentary as well. E.g., a cishet person calling themselves queer and such would automatically feel blegh, but an actually queer person saying it is fine (even tho they are discounted as queer for the purposes of the video, which is obviously a different kind of ick). Not to say I agree with Jubilee for it or anything, just trying to understand the viewpoint of why they do the vids this way

[@samarnadra]

The easier loophole they could have used is just get someone a little older who still is uncomfortable using the term for themselves, because the word has a very complicated history. You don't need to inadvertently exclude a whole group of people to walk that very fine line. Or just include more than one enby!

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

@@samarnadra What they had _was_ a person who was still uncomfortable using the term queer to refer to themself personally-but who some/other people might indeed have used the term to describe them.

[@purplemister5974]

When Shaaba goes "Share with the camera!" and covers her ears humming and Jamie just says: "Shaaba is beautiful." to the camera. Guys. I can't. You're so sweet.

[@Oakleaf012]

Man I know being non binary doesn’t inherently make you queer if you don’t identify with that word, but saying non binary people *aren’t* queer icked me out immediately. This would have been way better if the mole was completely cishet, this is just confusing and othering

[@sp6cecqmp]

whenever someone finds out that I’m pan, they think that that means that I like cis and trans people (which is true) but they also think bi people only like cis people (which is definitely not true!!) I completely agree with everything

[@wunderpupjo4223]

As a non-binary person, I really hated this episode. While I also identify as LGBTQ+ for other reasons (I don't really want to use the term "queer" here, it makes me uncomfortable), my NB-ness is a big factor in what makes me LGBTQ+. It's like saying a trans man or a trans woman isn't part of the LGB *T* Q+ community, they obviously are, so why am I not seen the same way? LGBTQ+ encompasses both sexuality and gender. It really hurt when I first saw this, it made me feel really othered from a community I'm usually proud to call my own. I am non-binary, and that makes me LGBTQ+. I just wish people would understand that.

[@hexonyou]

So... I understand that Devens may not label themselves as queer, but it felt like a weird technicality that didn't really fit the idea I went into about what the show was setting out to do. Like it kind of feels like a trick question to me. Just because you don't choose to use the queer label doesn't mean you're divorced from the concept it covers or the community it includes imo. Again though, this is a critique of the way the show was presented and not with Devens's choice of labels. I am a nonbinary person who definitely identifies with the term queer; partially to reclaim and partially because it just feels like a fit for me.

[@SartorialDragon]

14:34 ❤ Thank you for speaking up for horse girls!! Horse girls *do* face being not taken seriously. I know this because i'm hanging out in a community of adult *horse girls* of all genders. We love horses, we love games about horses, and it's a valid hobby 🐴

[@RenaRain]

If I could afford to hang out with horses all the time, I would.

[@mikaroni_and_cheez]

Horse girl is a culture ❤ I can't be near horses due to anxiety but I love horses so I'm very glad there's folk out there who will care for them in my stead.

[@nininoona]

I'm in my mid-40s and LGBTQIA+, and even I had issues with the word queer for a long time. I'm from a generation where words like gay and queer were absolutely used as slurs and the butt of the joke, nearly on the daily (especially in school.) It took me a long time before I could come to terms with actually using the word queer without feeling very disgusted and ashamed of myself or internally scolding myself because I dared to let that word fall from my mouth. Over the years, watching how society has changed and how words like gay/queer are being more and more accepted, has made me get over that "grammatical trauma" more easily. Now it doesn't bother me.

[@SartorialDragon]

15:58 if their pronouns are they/them, i'd say it's absolutely valid if they'd identify as queer. i wonder whether they are non-binary, which would definitely count as part of LGBTQIA. But if they don't identify as queer, that's fine too!

[@SODALITE_art]

I love how Jamie is still a pride deck chair:3

[@maggpiprime954]

I personally feel "queer" suits me. Coz I'm a whole lot of things in a sour-berry punch sort of way. I'm enby biromantic grey ace. I agree with the points you both made about the concept of this show. There's so much they could do better about the language being used, but I feel there's a very "young people being rushed for time on set, while trying to voice the nuances of things they're still learning about themselves."

[@Biggestgayestbird]

I am having so many horrible discourse memories. They managed to sum up like 10 years of horrible tumblr takes in such a short amount of time I am genuinely impressed! Jamie, Shaaba, you are so based, I love you but I just couldn’t watch the way the people in the video tried to sus people out until the end. 😬 Hope I didn’t mess with the metrics too much! Edit: ok read through the comments, if the lesson is don’t call people queer w/o their consent I agree with that! I still hate the way the contestants talked and how they challenged/proved themselves.

[@unapologeticallylizzy]

Yeah, I get the final comments on the term queer. I often refer to myself as queer because to me, it's just a blanket term for LGBT+ people and I don't really remember it being used as a slur. I'm 20 and I was also safely in the closet throughout high school and hadn't realised yet (despite all my friends being queer, but they made it feel like I wasn't allowed to like men so, being bi with a preference for men but not having had a crush on any other gender yet, I doubled down on it). However, when I told my grandma that this slur has been reclaimed by a lot of people, she was quite shocked because she has a lot of memories of it being used as a slur.

[@ashertruman3884]

Okay Jamie is just the sweetest husband I have ever seen. The little moment where he decides he wants it to be a competition between them and then doesn't share his thoughts but instead says that Shaaba is beautiful! Gorgeous man!!

[@blazelightshine2311]

The girl who said she was 'I'm just high femme', does she know what that means? She knows that doesn't just mean 'ultra femme' right? Also as a queer horse girl- This one is a bit strange though, yeah.

[@RenaRain]

I legitimately do not know the difference between high femme and ultra femme. The horse girl thing weirded me out so much - there's nothing bad nor cishet about liking horses

[@blazelightshine2311]

@@RenaRain er high femme is also a term associated with stone femme/stone butch, etc. Not about level of femininity

[@MorgenPeschke]

I really felt for Keith at 12:19 . I was raised Mormon as well, and that walk off was painfully relatable. It's a kind of "hold it together, you have to be ok with this because you feel like you were intruding" vibe that hits right in the feels 😢

[@justtired2050]

Raised Mormon too, and it took me around 8-9 years to come out because of both my religion and because the few people I opened up to about it over the years all said I seemed too cishet (I’m a bi trans guy). So much happier after leaving and coming out but lacking validation for my feelings has been a constant struggle for at least as long as I’ve known I’m queer

[@MorgenPeschke]

@justtired2050 That's rough 🫂. I came out pretty quick ... but that was in large part because everything was so up in my head that I didn't even start to figure myself out until I was in my late 30s and hadn't been to church in a couple of years. I'm not sure I could have made it if I'd had to stay closeted for 9 years after I knew.

[@phoebesulistio6830]

Welcome to "Jamie and Shaaba feel uncomfortable for 20 minutes because the concept of this show sucks but also it's really funny to point out the stereotypes that my people have bestowed upon me"

[@manganess5126]

OMG, the little "Shaaba's beautiful" 😍

[@unapologeticallylizzy]

I hate the preference thing as well. I have a strong preference for men, I'm very open about that and it does not make me any less bi.

[@wiseathena97]

18:41 Yeahhh I gotta agree with Shaaba here. I expect less than nothing from Jubilee normally but it seems like they were on the verge of doing a decent video here and just chose not to.

[@a.y.n.rupanddown5171]

How can you be nb and not queer?

[@ace..of..hearts_they-them_]

I think it's because they personally don't use that label

[@a.y.n.rupanddown5171]

@@ace..of..hearts_they-them_ i mean yeah, but labels dp have a meaning. You can personally not identify with a label but still fall under it.

[@ace..of..hearts_they-them_]

@@a.y.n.rupanddown5171 I know, I found it very frustrating as a nb person who considers themself queer.

[@dontbesuspicious1418]

Yeah like I get and respect that some people see it as a derogatory term and there for wont identify with it but it felt going in that queer was being used as a blanket term for everyone in the LGBTQ+ community but then it was used as more of a self label type thing. The phrasing “who isn’t queer” gives people the idea queer is being used as synonymous for LGBTQ+ which means that having the only person on there who’s gender identity is LGBTQ+ as the “non queer person” seems icky. It’s even worse that since they were masc presenting and only interested in women, cis,het,allo people might interpret them as “straight.” It really gives off the impression that being queer only means that you are attracted to the same sex.

[@user-es7ui5mc1m]

@@a.y.n.rupanddown5171 yeah i think if the video had phrased it as "one person doesn't identify as queer" that would've been much better and would've left room for the "not everybody identifies with the label" conversation but the way they did it is a bit strange

[@nathryl03]

Happy Pride Everyone ❤🧡💛💚💙💜 Remember that you're all awesome and valid peaches, just the way you are ❤🧡💛💚💙💜 Love you all

[@hatjodelka]

This would have been easier if they weren't North American. I think from a cultural perspective it was harder. The only people I know who wear Birkenstocks are straight Germans!

[@mothmanwantssoup1010]

It depends on how you use the term queer. It can be an LGBT umbrella term but also can just be about fluid sexuality.

[@whyaretheykinda]

I'm non-binary two-spirit and Jubilee has taken another fucking L with this. Like, the running joke in the enby community is that no matter the gender of your partner, all your relationships are gay 😭

[@feroxino1051]

I’m enby too, L indeed But I do use the “no matter my gender you ARE gay for me”

[@ZophieWithAZee]

them basically saying that non-binary isn't queer also makes me really uncomfortable... part of why I use the word queer is bc my gender and sexuality fluctuate daily, so I've found a lot of comfort in just identifying as queer. sometimes I'll say I'm bi, and sometimes I'll say I'm non-binary, on the days when those labels feel right, but in general I just say queer, bc it feels right for me all the time and also feels like it comfortably covers both the gender and sexuality stuff.

[@usagitsukinooo]

Wait, how is being non-binary not queer? Doesn't queer just mean not cishet? That person's comment was just really weird to me Edit: okay I finished the video, I get it now. I get that not everyone wants to use the queer label

[@Arosukir6]

I'm glad that in this instance it was about self-identification. So despite them being both non-binary and in a poly relationship, Devens does not consider themself queer. Unfortunately, Jubilee usually tends to decide who counts and who doesn't in a weirdly arbitrary way.

[@emilymoran9152]

Yeah...but that's not the premise of the show! Non-binary people as a group are included in the reclaimed "queer". It seemed like everyone was trying to find the cis het person, not find the person who doesn't LIKE the word queer. Because someone could be gay or binary trans and not call themselves "queer", and they're totally welcome not to...but if that was who the "mole" was, I feel like more people would say that's cheating/false advertising somehow.

[@Shoulderpads-mcgee]

Making a game of “who doesn’t fit this definition” and having the mole be someone who does but just doesnt identify with the word completely breaks the game. “6 purple paints vs 1 liar” and the liar is like “actually I identify as violet”

[@rawr1131]

@@Arosukir6 I have no issue with Devens not identifying as queer. My issue is how jubilee painted the video as being a “find out who is cishet” thing and decided to make their non lgbtq+ person someone who would qualify as lgbtq+.

[@yourdad1026]

i just wanted to point how you both so intelligent and open minded i appreciate this positivity ! so adorable i also like ur hair shaaba !

[@EssBJay]

I think it would have been better if they had turned the lights red at the end and made it a lesson about internal stereotyping.

[@meganking2205]

I can’t quite explain everything that made me uncomfortable when watching the jubilee video (at least I can’t with as much eloquence as Jamie and and Shaaba), but I will say, the intro and outtro with the two of them melted my heart 💕

[@axel_axolotl9821]

"Shaaba is beautiful" YOU TWO ARE SO CUTE

[@katies3733]

I couldn't watch this video by myself (the original jubilee video), because they kept deciding gay and queer are interchangeable terms. And as a queer human that's not gay (enby, ace, biromantic, etc.) ...I'm also not straight. But like I'm ace and bi not gay. Gay is a bit of a reach for me to identify as. And so I had to stop watching originally, because nonbinary is fudging queer to me. Individuals don't have to identify as it, but like people outside of nonbinary idnetity shouldn't say "nonbinary doesnt make you queer" becuase to some of us yes it does. Like queer is all I have as a blanket term I need them to realize there's a difference between queer and gay. You can be queer and not gay. If they had used gay for gay throughout the video I would have been like awesome. In other news I finally watched until the end of the video because you guys reacted to it.

[@ElfsArt24]

They had one episode where everyone was queer and it was so fun to see everyone's reaction to it, and they all said they wanted to reevaluate their idea on their own community.

[@lrfcowper]

My enby pan kid uses "gay" as shorthand sometimes. Just heard them use it today in a let's play video with their brother.

[@neverice9047]

0:05 shaaba: the wonderful, the beautiful jamie jamie: am beautiful ☺

[@SafetyChazard]

"Shaaba's Beautiful" - awe my heart

[@jenniferbenedict2223]

Honestly I just saw it was you guys and hit play not registering which channel. I just need the seratonin after today.

[@NortherlyK]

I really like this video. Words are important; the way they are used by individuals doesn't reflect the entire community and vice versa. Not all non-binary people identify as trans, but I do. It's both important and personal to me.

[@kayliemcintosh7841]

The queer discussion is interesting because I grew up kinda alone, but living off of old timey storybooks. I had no idea Queer meant anything other than, weird or odd, until i told a friend he was "quite queer," as a compliment and i utterly destroyed him (i didn't realize untill this video it was used as a slur). Oh, and I'm Asexual. So, i'll be sitting here eating sweet potatoes & reading Jane Austen. Quite queer indeed.

[@ace..of..hearts_they-them_]

I was also like this, I never called anyone else queer, but I would often think it about myself. I was right.

[@wintergray1221]

I'm reading Pride and Prejudice right now lol.

[@katielouise210]

as a bi with a rainbow pride tattoo i just realised i could never do this even if i wanted

[@wavix]

Everyone is gay🏳‍🌈 -God i think idk

[@hetero_riddler]

i love this so much omg 😭😭

[@science_bear]

Straights aren’t

[@rei_cirith]

I think what needed to happen was having directed questions from the production team that guided the conversation in the right direction.

[@R.senals_Arsenal]

I feel like the concept, if that is to show that you can't judge books by their covers and we shouldn't judge people in general, then this is fine, it is just falling short on execution/presentation. It could be workshopped to be better.

[@roselover411]

As someone who's ace i can't imagine being straight. Or gay actually. Like. How can you know you only like one? I don't feel attraction so i truly can't understand just knowing what you like right away without having to waffle around like i like all of this, how am i supposed to decide on one gender?

[@samarnadra]

This is why bi and pan people are our closest buddies. I'm aroace and I know so many people who thought they were bi/pan and realized they were ace or thought they were ace and figured out they were bi/pan because they feel the same about everyone. I thought I was demipanromantic before I figured out I was aromantic. Near as I can tell, when allos get a "crush" they get a feeling like a cross between happy excitement and a panic attack and they have trouble thinking clearly because the person is so attractive to them. Others of their preferred gender that are their type just fill that same thing we get when people are aesthetically attractive to us, but also thoughts or sensations or emotions that might point towards a subconscious or conscious desire to potentially do _things_ with them. Usually it is a passing thing, like when you are with a group of people and someone is so cool you just want to talk to them and be their friend and be around them. You don't necessarily have to go talk to them or befriend them, you can just appreciate them from afar, same sort of thing. Or as my lesbian friends would put it when asked how they know they are attracted to women: "girls pretty" followed by some incoherent noises. It's a bit like trying to understand why people prefer different ice cream flavors over each other when you don't like ice cream at all. They know what they like, and it brings them great joy, and sometimes great sadness, and they often argue over flavors. Bi and pan people are like "hey, these are all great!" and we are like "why are you always talking about ice cream?!" while we have cake instead. I can go into a new ice cream shop and look at the list of flavors and just know I will like some and dislike others even though I've never tried them, it's the same sort of thing with straights and gays/lesbians and their attraction. I can just look at orange creamsicle type flavors and know I won't like them because I don't like acidic things with dairy. Other people love it and will get even variations on it like a lime version, because it sounds good.

[@roselover411]

@@samarnadra That ice cream analogy is fantastic, good job

[@samarnadra]

@@roselover411 I admit I stole it from someone because I loved it.

[@tezzanoia]

Regarding the "dating multiple genders but specifically not cis(het) men": I revently talked to a friend about this and while I'm not strictly "no cis men", I'm generally not interested in them, simply because of toxic masculinity, heteronomativity, cisnormativity and stuff like that. Obviously it's not just cishet men that grow up with this bullshit, but chances are that they're a lot more likely to have these harmful things engrained in them without challenging them at all due to the privileges they've had all their life. And unfortunately even some who do challenge these things do still have them engrained so deeply, it's an issue regardless. That's not to say this can't be an issue with other people too, but based on the socialisation and social expectations that exist around us and affect all of us to some degree, the chances are just much higher with cishet men. Hope this is making sense lmao

[@Arosukir6]

I love Shaaba and Jamie, but I kind of despise Jubilee. This weirdness around who gets to count as queer is just one example of their problems. It feels like everything they do has a basis in either stereotypes, essentialism, or "both sides are valid" sensibilities. They'll do videos having trans folks debate anti-trans folks as if those are equally reasonable positions to have. They'll also do those same discussions without disclosing that while the progressive folks they bring on tend to be just everyday folks people, the conservatives are usually literally professional pundits. So in a "feminists vs men's rights" discussion they'll just pull random femmes off the street who are self-identified as feminist, while the MRA folks they get are ones who *make a living* doing debates and MRA talking points. Same with issues of race, nationality, disability, and plenty of other marginalized identities. There are several people who have talked about appearing in Jubilee videos thinking it was going to be something productive and just getting railroaded or weirdly edited. It's all incredibly frustrating because they act like they're just having honest discussions in a calm manner where everyone is being reasonable and open-minded and kind. Yet the content harms both a lot of the participants as well as many of the viewers (see Jamie getting upset here, for example). I'm not gonna knock anyone for liking Jubilee. I just hope they're going in with the knowledge that their videos are not always (or possibly even often) made in good faith. Edit: I'm sorry for going on such a rant on Shaaba's channel and possibly bringing down the vibe. She and Jamie are such beautiful, empathetic, and positive folks; and their takes in the end were right on point!

[@lauravanimpe3173]

2:21 not even 3mins in and there is already casual disability representation. Love it! And we need more :D

[@innocuus]

The Jubilee video made me so uncomfortable. So many of them were so aggressive and dismissive, particularly Travis. Travis came across as exactly the sort of person that as a bi cis women has made me feel unwelcome in the community for not being queer enough.

[@moonbasket]

I completely agree with everything you both said. I've got a nonbinary partner and it made me so mad that this was their "mole." That said, I loved watching Shaaba bully Jaime and force him to watch this video while she got all competitive about it. Very adorable

[@BlackMew13]

I really feel like the Jubilee video was falsley advertised, the set up seemed to be that the mole was an allosexual cishet person But at the end it suddenly turns out that the point was actually to find the LGBTQ+ person who doesn't identify with the term queer ?! I feel like even the contestants weren't quite clear on that Also since they seemingly used queer as an umbrella term for the entire LGBTQ+ community, it felt really unfair at the end when they said "being non binary doesn't automatically make you queer" I've only relatively recently come to terms with my non binary identity and i still struggle with a lot of insecurity and doubts, so hearing that was kinda hurtful

[@AfroCharlieable]

I would simply state ‘I want your ugly, I want your disease’ and stare at the next person in the circle to continue and just go from there

[@SartorialDragon]

5:20 tbh my dating is the same.... most genders, but no cis men. it's not that i wouldn't be *attracted* at least romantically or sensually by cis men, but i rarely meet a cis man that has a level of awareness for the TQIA in LGBTQIA that i'm comfortable with enough to engange with him... 5:35 when it comes to genitals, i'm not super fond of cis male genitals, and it is actually very different with trans female genitals. It matters who they are attached to, how they refer to them and how the interactions with them are.

[@TiBunCosplay]

As an enby who does identify as queer, I did not like how that one person said that "Just because you're nonbinary doesn't make you queer" Because it IS a thing there enby people are sometimes pushed out of the LGBT+ community. Same with Aces (which I also am) I'm so used to being pushed out of the LGBT+ community for one reason or another because my flavor of queer isn't "gay enough" which is why I have so fully adopted calling myself queer because people don't question me being queer the way they question me being LGBT+ So to hear someone imply that enby people aren't queer enough is upsetting.

[@mothdreams]

Yeah I fucking hated that, they’re clearly using it as a LGBT+ stand-in so ofc the non-binary person would be queer???? I’m just- >.>

[@orangecrumb]

im just sad they voted out devens bc they're so pretty lol

[@rileycollison2947]

i describe my gender as non-binary and my sexuality as queer. Both these labels are important parts of my identity, and sometimes i also feel as though "queer" also describes my gender as well. I kind of use as just meaning "not cis" and "not straight".

[@vinkyvargs]

I agree with you guys and your thoughts about the end result being someone who fits under the LGBTQ umbrella was the “not queer” mole. I feel like the entire time I (and probably the people there who participated) was trying to find someone who was wholly not in the queer community, while we should’ve been looking for someone who doesn’t use that particular label. They definitely should’ve specified I think at the beginning and told both the contestants and viewers that the mole was not necessarily cishet, they were just someone who doesn’t use the term queer for themselves.

[@wizard-lizard]

I wanted to ask just because I've had a hard time finding answers online/in my small queer friend group, but I know Jamie and Shaaba called out people for differentiating sexual attraction/preference based on genitalia, but I would think that would be fair as long as you treated everybody with respect in regards to their gender identity. I'm not trying to be offensive, just genuinely confused for myself as a queer person who doesn't super care about gender in terms of romantic/aesthetic attraction, but feels sexually uninterested in/intimidated by people with penises. So, although I think I am able to separate someone's gender from that body part in terms of how I treat them in social/general context, it would still impact whether I'd be interested in them sexually. Is that transphobic or is there a better way to frame/discuss those differences in attraction?

[@user-om5tv5fd9s]

I can’t offer proper terminology and expertise either, but I doubt that that would be seen as transphobia. Your sexual preference is yours to have and enjoy (unless harmful of course). And if you are unable to feel attracted to for example a particular trans woman whose genitalia do not yet, or might for reasons never, align with your preference/attraction, then that’s absolutely fine. She’d still be just as much a woman and you can’t help that you don’t feel attracted towards her in particular. After all just because a person generally feels attracted towards women, doesn’t mean they are equally attracted to every single woman on earth, either. The problem would begin, once you’d go beyond that, like actually denying the person’s gender identity in turn, or using language that targets transgender individuals for the purpose of denouncing them as lesser members of/ excluding them from their gender community (aka terms such as “super straight” etc.). But your post doesn’t seem that way to me at all.

[@jofawkes]

Yeah, not transphobic to feel like that, but unfortunately I have no idea what the more educated way to explain it is. It's really if you treat people awful or purposely misgender them. A great question! Solidarity!

[@robnessvic]

It’s a sexual preference, not an orientation based on attraction, because if you didn’t know a person had a penis, you might still feel attraction to them. Attraction is not the same as action. In terms of discussing it, in online dating profiles you could make your preferences clear in that regard. If it came up with a partner before you had sex, you can politely explain. What’s important is that you don’t attach this requirement in your relationships to phrases like “I only date real women” as obviously that’s exclusionary. But there’s nothing discriminatory about feeling this way.

[@wizard-lizard]

Wow thank y'all for all your earnest responses! I agree that yes of course I would never use gender-exclusionary or straight up rude language to refer to a sexual preference, and I appreciate the clarification of what constitutes that type of language! I'm kind of on the ace spectrum so it's not the kind of thing that comes up a lot for me, so it's nice to crowd source some kind/thoughtful ways of discussing this stuff for if it comes up for me/a friend IRL!

[@daxvena]

yeah... the video made me a bit uncomfortable... i started warming up to idea of considering myself queer mainly because i like it's all encompassing vagueness, but i've always felt a bit reluctant because of the history, and a slight anxiety of not feeling "queer enough" (which is honestly kind of dumb because I'm literally the end half in LGBT). i hate thinking if i was on there that i would be sussed out as "straight". (but who knows, maybe being neurodivergerent would help me there 🙃) it's also really frustrating seeing the non-binary person being framed as "not queer". it would be kind of hypocritical of me to say they have to identify as queer just because they're LGBT, but i really hate how it was framed in the context of the video... it feels invalidating to my partner who's non-binary, and our relationship that "looks" straight to anyone who doesn't know.

[@jofawkes]

Like many of these comments, I also go with queer, because then I don't have to think too hard about a more specific label.

[@LittleDergon]

I love it being called 'tribe vibe' instead of gaydar 😂❤ please let's make this a thing! I also had a sharing rainbows moment with a guy on the tube the other day and it was the first time it's happened to me without words and the connection was the best feeling 😁

[@mackenziemaybarraclough1207]

It definitely is a vibe. My 'gaydar' is broken because I can never tell but one of my friends says that the moment she met me, I gave off huge bi vibes and I am bi.

[@bitchenboutique6953]

I’m only a few minutes in and I’m wondering if they’re showing them sitting in chairs so that we can judge each person’s ability to do so? 😂

[@thefairylibrarian3282]

The "how gay are you?" at the begining made me so uncomfortable. I'm straight and cis, but i'm also ace. So, i would say 0, but that doesn't make me any less queer. That in combination with the end result, makes it seam as if they think only gay (and bi) are queer and try to exclude other identities. They certainly made choices

[@Rikrobat]

I’m sad that Jamie was made uncomfortable during this segment. I wish those distinctions weren’t being made and then not being challenged afterwards. I personally like the word queer for myself because trying to determine my identity with other labels has been a rocky road. I now feel comfortable saying I’m ace, but even that journey of definition isn’t over, so “queer” just helps when I’m feeling otherwise lost. ❤

[@The_Enby_Zev]

Honestly, at this point, I use queer because I have so many labels. Hope you enjoy some reliability from the other side of the 'label problems' spectrum (and hello fellow ace person)

[@CodaBlairLucarioEmperor]

Really I just know I'm aspec for both spectrums. I say I'm aroace, but I don't know where I lie on each spectrum.

[@Rikrobat]

@@CodaBlairLucarioEmperor - That’s my concern most of the time. I’m certain in my being ace, but being more specific becomes difficult to tweeze out. I might also be aro, but I always feel hesitant using it for myself, so I leave it aside for now. 💖🫂

[@ineffablake]

@@CodaBlairLucarioEmperor yeah same here. i think im aro spec and ace spec BUT i don't know specifics. I'm not fully aro, i know bc of how i feel about my partners, but I'm definitely not fully alloromantic or allosexual. whooo its a mess lol

[@thatdisabledprincess]

I'd read a few comments before getting to "Just because you're nonbinary doesn't make you queer," but wow nothing could've prepared me for that. As an arobi acespec cisn't person who doesn't use pronouns... wow I feel really othered because of that statement.

[@WishGender]

“Cisn’t” oml I love that

[@alexhika]

I need you guys to know that I was listening to the video while making a quick dinner at 2am after a crazy day, and I legit heard Shaaba saying "the PENIS is mightier than the sword" and for a second my brain short-circuited lol 😂❤