Sonic 1 Prototype (& Knuckles) - But does it work on Real Hardware?

[@Garrulous64]

I'm really hoping that that "holy grail" build gets found someday, it looks really interesting!

[@staceyroberts1251]

Hello I'm first to commet here, lol

[@Yellowpick10]

I call it the J90 demo "prototype", since it is part of a bigger Toy Show ROM.

[@NunofYerbizness]

There's many prototypes that I would consider holy grails, but Sonic 1's TTS demo is the only one I can think of that's for a Sega console (other than a Sonic 3 build early or later enough to feature all the Sonic & Knuckles zones in their original pre-3C states). Every other sought-after prototype I can think of is for Nintendo, and also a few PS1 stuff.

[@NathatheBizarreFox]

It would be great to see a fully working "holy grail" build in our hands some day

[@Dan-379]

@@NathatheBizarreFox What's so special about it?

[@toadmushead]

The Madlad Did It... He Attached Sonic & Knuckles To Sonic 1 Prototype

[@JavaCake]

Yep

[@YoshiLikesFate]

He did something that Sega cant

[@evdestroy5304]

@@YoshiLikesFate But they can...

[@YoshiLikesFate]

@@evdestroy5304 no i mean the fact that he used the prototype which if im not mistaken, could not be read by the Sonic and Knuckles.

[@Renegade666]

...& KNUCKLES

[@andknuckles101]

Can we just appreciate the sheer amount of effort that goes into each and every one of this guy's videos? Like, really, he tests these things dozens of times to get the most accurate results... that must take ages. It's absolutely brilliant. Keep up the good work, redhotsonic.

[@smt4090]

Spicy Peppers

[@mark030a]

And the editing + style of the videos feel so professional yet he has such a low amount of subscribers...Man, I love this channel!

[@andknuckles101]

@@mark030a He'll be at 100k by the end of the year, I bet you

[@mark030a]

@@andknuckles101 I sure hope so! RedHotSonic deserves it!

[@TuxerTuxar]

Sonic @@andknuckles101.

[@athing18]

Honestly, it's super awesome to see that redhotsonic is still part of the Sonic community after all these years. I remember your content from the 2000s, and the dedication after almost 20 years is truly admirable. Cheers to you, friend!

[@Curlyheart]

Honoka

[@LocalAitch]

4:36 If I'm understanding what I saw in the object layout correctly, that's actually object $19, set to be loaded into the respawn table, and with two different subtypes (subtype $14 at X:1B60 Y:0388, and subtype $7A at X:1BD8 Y:0180). Object $19 is the same object as the GHZ ball

[@ShiningProdigyTAS]

New title: Sonic before he was famous: but does it work on Real Hardware?

[@NovaCore777]

2:22 We almost had another barrel of doom situation here, it's a good thing that it was changed to function with a button in the final.

[@Renegade666]

im still baffled how anyone got stuck here, like, it got this game when it came out and literally on my fist try i worked out how to do the barrel. it wasnt fucking rocket science!

[@0n1c420]

There are many barrels like why you never try those

[@gamertypeawesome]

​@@Renegade666tails jumps landing seems to push it down a bit no crouching sprite (unless ur in origins) to communicate that up and down do anything

[@videotape2959]

No, all you have to do is to jump on it.

[@sleekflash16]

9:53 Holy cow! I was not expecting so see my scan here. This whole video was pretty fun to watch.

[@Yellowpick10]

Lol

[@miqueasgonzalez4015]

Finally, a prototype that we thought was lost is here!!

[@tailsbread]

Maybe one day we’ll get the toy store prototype

[@miwiki6]

now to that first prototype that has the mountains and stuff i know it's probably lost but... a man can dream...

[@MirrorHall_Clay]

Honestly finding the Tokyo Toy Show demo would be insane at this point Sega couldn't even find it themselves to put in Mega Collection nearly two decades ago

[@Spooky-n6l]

@@MirrorHall_Clay the fact they couldn't find it 2 decades ago means it is probably more harder to find it now. So if someone does find it, that would be very insane

[@LuwiigiMaster]

0:14 unintentionally summarizes the difference in Japanese and Western work culture - the Japanese rarely back their games up, and the moment the game is released, they toss out the source code. Westerners on the other hand back up their games frequently, and keep their source code indefinitely. That's why you always find source codes for 'Disney's Direct To Video Pinball Sequel for the game boy color' being released, or lost prototypes of 'Barbie's horse racing adventure for the Genesis' finally surfacing, but all the canceled Japanese games like "The Amazing Journey" for the NES or "Super Booby" for the Famicom are lost forever.

[@autosaver]

The “ray of light” background of the beta may have inspired Sonic 4’s labyrinth background.

[@MIXANDMARK]

I love your BDIWORH videos, they're so full of details and everything, keep up the great work!

[@Sparkette]

8:43 In this case, I'd consider it more like "unhacking" the ROM. The test gave an inaccurate result because your flashcart was the wrong size; all that your edit did was compensate for this and make it behave like the original cart would have.

[@DenilsonSa]

That is correct. On a real hardware, a 1Mb ROM chip is connected to one extra address line (i.e. one extra copper wire) than a 512kb chip. This means the higher bit(s) are ignored on smaller ROM chips, which means they essentially loop over and are available many times through the adress space.

[@user-ku3sr7cl3u]

Funny mention at 1:43. Idk if someone’s said it yet, but this glitch occurs if you take damage, then land on a spring. It causes the rings to become uncollectable, and makes invincibility last for a while. You can also pull it off in spring yard where the spike-bouncer thing is next to the spring at the beginning.

[@redhotsonic]

Just tried it out. The spring is indeed the cause of the problem. Interesting...

[@Seven71987]

The Background of Sparking Zone was just so so busy, busy busy busy.

[@Etendo]

0:00 X-treme music. As an X-treme fan, I appreciate this.

[@classicsonicplays4231]

Poor knux had to sit on the bench as he couldn’t be in the prototype. Press f to pay respects

[@andknuckles101]

F

[@roboblastmania3328]

F

[@megaslofththecommenter2800]

F

[@0n1c420]

Okay I have my keyboard

[@0n1c420]

F

[@staceyroberts1251]

This is a great video, REDHOTSONIC! I hope you stay Super Sonic Always!!

[@shyguymike]

Whoever is translating your videos into polish, he's freaking speed!

[@redhotsonic]

He is it and it is Google translate 😅

[@shyguymike]

@@redhotsonic Ohhhhhh, well now the amount of translations makes sense. For a moment I thought you might know like... 10 languages.

[@szonig_pl3024]

Big pog, Poland rules 😌

[@Parcel_GT]

🇵🇱

[@ros9764]

I have been waiting for this video for too long, man. But glad it's finally here!

[@Imfernolistico]

RHS, you never dissapoint with your videos. Good job!

[@Aranesque]

Man, you're killing it with the shots! You got so good with the camera and video editing! Love your work dude

[@Geneo-en5km]

Love your dedication to these videos @RedHotSonic... You never fail us on making sure all that can be seen and done... You do. Thanks Brother

[@Sparkette]

That glitch at 1:43 happened to me in an emulator a couple times. Both the long invulnerability time and not being able to pick up rings.

[@LUSProductionsOfficial]

My guess as to why this happened in that instance was because he bounced off of spikes & onto a spring pad.

[@toinejaktheonly6082]

Bro, we'll be dead by the time that Toyshow demo is found

[@AidGum]

Unless time travel is invented before that.

[@zbear2763]

wait, he’s got a point

[@SageNoodleVT]

Thanks for everything you do, RHS :)

[@brayden6449]

Don’t you just love Clock Ork Zone?

[@RealBond101]

I think Metronome Elf Zone is better, but that’s my personal opinion.

[@brayden6449]

Can’t forget about Pendulum Pixie Zone though.

[@redacculous]

What about Time Gnome Zone?

[@mateomeza1278]

It's Clock Work Zone.

[@ultracaustic1588]

As a people, for whom english isn't native language, thanks for subtitles and clear pronunciation. Very interesting video and information,a big work was done to do this content. Thanks!

[@GamerDog_35]

I remember I was doing a bunch of research on Sonic Xtreme and then I found this channel I love this channel ever since

[@lohoeferconstruction32]

1:26 I really like those drums

[@KING_STRONGTH]

Golden Axe 2 type drums.

[@ReReCoil]

Basically The Sonic 1 Prototype: GREEN HILL has a boulder. MARBLE can't be properly beat requiring Debug Mode to beat and Act 3 doesn't have a boss. SPARKLING sends you to Star Light after Act 1, Act 2 is partially complete and Act 3 is on drugs. STAR LIGHT doesn't have it's gimmicks from the final game. LABYRINTH has no water or enemies and the background is better than the final game's. CLOCK ORK is missing the (W), the background is from a piece of Act 2 and the layout for Act 1 is broken. Special Stages lack Emeralds, UP and DOWN reverse rotation of the stage, the A and B buttons increase and decrease speed respectively, and red circles end the stage, freeze the game, then reset the special stage. Debug mode has some interesting quirks. Track 92 in Sound Test crashes the game because it has an invalid pointer or something. On rare occasions the Percussion (beats) won't load forcing you to hard-reset the game

[@redhotsonic]

Actually, act 3 of Marble has another route that doesn't lock the screen so it's possible to pass without debug but watching my video again, I see why you got that impression. My bad!

[@waltercomunello121]

that prototype background in Labyrinth would have been really awesome. reminds me so strongly of Hydrocity.

[@SluggishRain]

The glitch where you couldn’t recollect your rings and had long invincibility frames was from getting hit and then landing on a spring.

[@PhirePhlame]

I remember at one point during the Hidden Palace reveal stream, spikes were hit and I found myself thinking "how long has he been invincible???".

[@AidGum]

I kind of like Sparkling Zone's background, but my eyes say that changing it to Spring Yard was for the better.

[@farjanasiful4750]

I say they keep the old backround but keep the name spring yard

[@TheGuyWhoIsSitting]

I have a feeling the earliest prototype(s) wouldn’t run on stock hardware but it could be a treat if they exist and run!

[@NathatheBizarreFox]

Yes

[@DONK8008]

Theres no real reason they wouldn't. The dev hardware back then plugged into a standard console, so if an intact ROM was found there is good chance it will run on hardware.

[@olds86307]

@@DONK8008 "Theres no real reason they wouldn't." Sonic Crackers:

[@kirbyfan18yt]

Im glad that at least 1 of the sonic 1 prototype builds has been found and i will make a video playing it

[@MinecrafterPictures]

Fun Fact: Sound #92 is the drowning sound. Which means that of you somehow try to drown the game crashes because the drowning music crashes the game

[@Turbulation1]

There is no water in the prototype, also the music crashes mainly only because of invalid pointers.

[@Dan-379]

4:25 Those are actually air pockets.

[@NunofYerbizness]

That's just a theory that I made up from looking at the Labyrinth maps on TCRF's Discord server; About whether or not they _were_ meant to be air pockets, someone should ask whoever designed the game's levels.

[@Dan-379]

@@NunofYerbizness Well, they *could* be just a decoration; until we ask Kodama or Ishiwatari, these domes remain a mystery.

[@floppaz13]

Seems that now we literally have an blue sphere's proto...

[@Pacca64]

I still can't believe we finally have one!

[@Dec_TGM]

4:22 I think this is unused background is what Sega and paramount used in the Sonic The Hedgehog 2 movie above the labyrinth that Knuckles, Robotnik, and Sonic traverse through to get to the Master Emerald.

[@christopherperez2322]

Redhotsonic:finds a glitch Tetra bit gaming:now this looks like a job for me a motive,fella?

[@NathatheBizarreFox]

Sound select 92 is just the credits theme but it appears to be a bit broken

[@f0ldbl]

That intro brand back memory's since I never watched in a long time

[@ct1660]

If you press START during the Special Stage, it will stop the maze's rotation, apart from pressing A for clockwise rotation or B for counter-clockwise rotation. As this build predates the Reverse posts, it makes sense they needed a way to make navigating the maze easier as well as test the maze rotation.

[@MajoradeMayhem]

With respect to Buckaroo: WHERE WERE YOU??

[@JinBuu_]

1:57 why sonic jumping like Mario there

[@awesomechad7716]

This is actually Sonic's original victory jump when you complete a level (which was cut from the final version of Sonic 1).

[@shyver0]

Due to it being too much like Mario's jump (pointed out by op)

[@themcguinnessexperiment617]

Probably the longest 24 hour wait ever XD I've been waiting impatiently for this one, but I've no doubt that this is gonna be amazing! Edit: it was. Great video!

[@Oysterblade84]

I honestly didn't think this was going to be your next video, I thought ''Sonic 2 Anniversary'' was more in line for the next release or maybe something more obscure, I mean nearly every second comment on your last video was from loud mouths demanding you to upload this which I thought was quite rude, but anyway it's done now. I enjoyed your video although there was not much that I didn't know already about this proto. Keep up the great work RHS.

[@redhotsonic]

Well, it's a proto of the very first game so I can see why everyone was excited but yeah. I knew I had to get this out fast. Two BDIWORH videos within 6 days has made me exhausted. This week, time with my family!

[@Robert_Manners]

What is the sega genesis high definition graphic console that is used to demonstrate the rom please? At the time 1:24

[@Mizu2023]

Just look at the bottom right corner of the video after clicking on the timestamp and you should see the model number

[@DissociatedWomenIncorporated]

I'd _kind_ of heard of this but thought it was just yet another beta recreation, had no idea it was the real thing until this video!

[@Renegade666]

this is for all intents and purposes the Nick Arcade beta featured in the pilot episode

[@roberttractortaylor]

I didn't attach the S&K cart to it in my video, but I did play it on my modded 68010 model 1. It didn't affect the physics slow down, however my vanilla model 2 froze playing the proto. Glad to see you also rode the Indiana Jones Boulder. 😂

[@WickerBasket9]

I absolutely LOVE the background Labyrinth Zone had in the prototype! It really beats the one we had in the later/final ROM.

[@ls190v2]

Kudos, red and Buckaroo. Kudos.

[@hypercosmicthehedgehog1525]

Man the fact that we finally found a Sonic 1 prototype is still so cool i am glad that we finally have a prototype of all the Genesis Sonic games.

[@DanknDerpyGamer]

** A prototype for each Genesis Sonic game

[@itsNikash.]

The prototypes are totally real. Perhaps we'll get one for every Sonic entry as time goes by. This prototype wasn't too bad for what it had to offer with a few hit and miss moments, but that's expected. Would have been nice to see splats make an appearance in the final version. At least they did in Mania. Superb job on the technicality of Sonic 1 Prototype (& Knuckles). You made the almost impossible, possible.

[@TheGarfster]

I pretty much assumed this *would* work on real hardware (and it truly did), but this man went over the top adding the & Knuckles segment. I have nothing to say about the proto itself other than I was *very* surprised when I found out about Hidden Palace streaming it. The Sonic & Knuckles attachment segment really surprised me, though. While the "No Way" screen appeared in mostly a tint of blue, that special stage shown does look rather interesting but challenging. PS: I don't know why it says S3 has 5 protos and S&K has 7, but with the Sonic 3C/Special Edition (3C does not refer to the hack, just Special Edition) protos, the S&K 0525 proto and the November 20, 1993 build, I assume those would count towards each game's total count due to the fact 3C was supposed to be both games put together, one was an early S&K locked onto Sonic 3, and the later 1993 build was an altered final game.

[@antoniodavimarquesdesouza7803]

This video was amazing!

[@fardowsao.7664]

8:48 nice reference

[@cabbusses]

Have you run any particular stress/corruption tests for crashes that would not happen on emulation?

[@sonicmaster7677]

3:57 Karate redhotsonic!!

[@lucianothewindowsfan]

0 views 9 likes KZbin's favourite thing is doing drugs.

[@jordandrinkwater1345]

That's no good.

[@tonyacatlett3683]

3:05 I wonder if this could be inspiration for stardust speedway or speed highway in Sonic adventure

[@feiwong3634]

I just have to say that the Sonic fan base has to be one of the most passionate of the video game realm. I just love Sonic, waaaaay back since the first one was released in Mega Drive, and I still play and collect Sonic games, I have now 2 sons and they love it too and we play together. The only other video-game series that did the same is Mario. The 2 most powerful brands.

[@ChrisStoneinator]

A fan of Sonic AND Xeno? Finally another man of culture

[@DUFFYISBACK]

this is a really good channel

[@purpleghost2004]

0:14 i just noticed he has a physical copy of sonic bash in his collection dunno why but i just thought that was kinda funny

[@BluCoolKnux]

0:14 There’s a Sonic Bash box on the shelf! I see what you hid there!

[@andresbravo2003]

Hello RHS, thank you very much. You are very welcome to this new video!

[@FunnyTimersChannel]

Green Hill Zone is the only zone that has a working boss, so that's why there's a sign at the end of act 3 instead of the boss in marble zone.

[@eiadithecoder620]

0:38 Fun Fact Locking on A Cartridge Other than Sonic 1,2,3 on Sonic And Knuckles, will Get Blue Spheres just like sonic 1, But only 1 level of it, and if it's not an official Genisis game, more specifically an unofficial program, it will load up sonic and knuckles and ignores the top game

[@memeboi69-k3v]

Excuse me but When are you gonna try the Sonic 2 prototypes you covered and the sonic 3 prototype with sonic and knuckles attached

[@yoshicakes]

Thanks man, I asked for this.

[@magolol4945]

i wonder, what if we got ahold of an earlier build of Sonic & Knuckles that when attached to sonic 1, would it give us Sonic 1 & knuckles?

[@tailsboom8767]

I might as well add this: When I played Sound Test 92,not only did the game crash, it also showed a line of letters and numbers. The line of text said "emulator"! How did it know I was using an emulator to play it? (the emulator I always use is Kega)

[@mineland8220]

its incredible that a sonic 1 prototype has been found after a long time. Now we can hope that some day, in the future, we will find a tokyo toy show demo rom and rest

[@faristurjman2134]

And a sonic cd prototype with r2 or whatever that level if called

[@MrAppleSalad]

What was that outro music?? Did I hear a bit of Bridge Zone in there?

[@valsonic4137]

We still need to find the Tokyo toy show demo

[@Atlas_System01]

I won’t say that would be impossible as the sonic 1 prototype was found but it’s unlikely.

[@valsonic4137]

I just want the real thing

[@halimaahmed7480]

This dude did it. Ledgend.

[@JayAndSonicYT]

7:09 & Knuckles

[@vegas276.]

shooting lines from tv shows never gets old

[@epicstar86]

Very cool video

[@dissapointednightborger]

Yup! I waited for this!

[@sonicvelocity6465]

1:39 I guess they aren’t enemies after all

[@AmaroqStarwind]

What happens if you put a Power Base Converter and a Master System cartridge on top of Sonic & Knuckles?

[@pepeto0906]

Gracias por los subtítulos amigo ✌️

[@TeleKamptiA]

YOUR ACCENT IS GODLIKE.

[@chili_dogs1]

i was actually able to recreate the bug where you had more invincibility frames by falling on spikes and then landing on a spring

[@dbnpoldermans4120]

Awesome how you truly test it out! Now sure if this applies to Megadrive flash carts, but for my Master System everdrive when I take out the sd card, the Master Everdrive will just boot the last loaded game. Perhaps that also applies to MD flash carts. Perhaps you already know that!

[@tonyacatlett3683]

4:20 that's the background for knuckles Green Hill zone in Sonic mania

[@awesomechad7716]

Are you saying that this prototype background for Labriynth was eventually reused for Green Hill Act 2 in Sonic Mania :O

[@tonyacatlett3683]

Y E S A N D I H A V E D R A N K 9 9 9 S P R I T E S O D A S F O R T H E P A S T 5 M O N T H S T O S T A Y A W A K E .

[@wms6101]

Just for some people who wondered why there is no W in CLOCK WORK ZONE's title card, it's simple. There is no W sprite in that font style in the files. There are some Sonic ROM hackers who had the initiative to use the M in MARBLE ZONE as a W by simply flipping the letter itself!

[@TheBrazilRules]

It is bizarre how much the background in Marble Zone looks like the Saturn one

[@milestailsprower4555]

04:58 "CLOCK ORK" because of a Missing "W" that didn't exist

[@bowlerboy12345678910]

This is a great video as always redhotsonic I am curious if this prototype rom and other roms that you’ve shown in other videos would work on the @games Sega Genesis and on the HyperKin Retron 5 I have both consoles and would like to try them as they both can read actual Cartriges and Roms from SD Card what are your thoughts on this

[@budgetcoinhunter]

Not sure exactly what's happening code-wise, but bouncing onto a spring from a spike is what causes the long invulnerability bug. I'm sure Retro's going to dig into it soon enough.

[@SomeRobIoxDude]

Fun Fact: Act 2 of Marble Zone is the same as in the 2013 remake. I don't know if it's true, i just found it in the chat of someone playing the prototype.

[@Crowblox-official]

It's been 2 years since I've watched your videos

[@NotCzech001]

In the description of the game tcr said that they would sell a copy of the prototype on Ebay