Sony A7 IV | Rolling Shutter Unusable?

[@impatrickt]

Super 35 mode drastically reduces the rolling shutter and puts it on par with most other cameras. Down to around 12ms.

[@AlphaCentauri24]

Thanks for pointing this out.

[@deviny]

Kinda defeats the point of even getting a full frame camera though

[@impatrickt]

@@deviny no it doesn’t

[@andresvillarreal]

@@deviny why would it defeat the point? the point is to get good footage, and the full frame is for still photography. in traditional cinema super 35 has always been the standard, never full frame 35 photo. The only disadvantage is that lenses dont become as wide, but a pro is also that tele becomes more tele

[@andresvillarreal]

So basically its better than a black magic pocket 4k (16 ms?) and still a bigger sensor? Doesnt sound bad at all. What about mixing full frame and super 35 footage in one film, how will that work?

[@michalrv3066]

So pay 2.5k for a camera, buy expensive lenses and you get bad rolling shutter... I get it, this isn't a pro Hollywood camera but really this issue shouldn't exist at this price point.

[@brandinojam24]

That is just one of the major reasons to buy the A7siii over the A7iv for video.

[@thisiserich]

Even when it’s cropped, this camera is still oversampling from 4.6k. So it’s gonna look fantastic no matter what you do really. Could just get a wide angle aps-c e-mount lens and shoot video exclusively in aps-c mode. Or if you know you’re going to be shooting fast moving subjects, just switch it over to aps-c mode. Plus, with how good the image is on the a7iv, you could even shoot everything in 1080 and upscale it to 4k, add a tad bit of sharpening and no one would know the difference.

[@TheEtbetween]

Excellent advice

[@definingslawek4731]

you can use catalyst browse also and it removes rolling shutter which is great! What settings do you use for 1080p? I filmed some stuff in 1080 on my a7iv and I was surprised how low res it looked. Maybe I had some weird setting.

[@banzai412]

You cannot compare it to A7S3. A7IV has an „7k“ Sensor. This data needs to be downsampled. When you have to record dynamic footage just switch to crop mode. Even in 24/25p. Faster readouts because of less processing Power. Resolving in less rolling shutter. Both Alphas are great cameras btw. I one them both 👌🏻 THX for the video

[@f0t0b0y]

Cheers for that. I have garbage b-roll shots on my A7IV. Clients don't see it. It drives me crazy.

[@definingslawek4731]

@@f0t0b0y why are the shots garbage?

[@f0t0b0y]

@@definingslawek4731 The wobble and angle of any vertical lines in the background when panning at any speed or movement is so distracting. Too many megapixels is the trade-off you get from having a proper hybrid camera.

[@kbarrett1844]

Anyone looking to do whip pans on a regular basis wouldn’t be looking at the A74 in the first place. Rolling shutter is a non-issue for most.

[@ElBoyoElectronico]

This!

[@coastmale]

shoot out of a moving vehicle and then tell me rolling shutter is a non-issue

[@OmniVisionElite]

What about trap ninjas doing EDM videography behind the DJ booth?

[@kbarrett1844]

@@coastmale Well there you go. Each instance where I need that type of footage. I might just have to rent a GH6

[@coastmale]

@@kbarrett1844 actually using/renting the a7siii would be a better option actually as it is significantly faster in terms of readout speed.

[@Shels_pwnz]

Only we know what rolling shutter even is. I have never delivered a product and the client says “uhm? Is there way to reduce rolling shutter at 1:38?”

[@JonathanPalfrey]

Exactly. No not really. I guess you could key frame the image skew but it wouldn't be worth it. Just avoiding situations that might cause that amount of rolling shutter in the first place is the best practice.

[@johnadams3038]

I watched an episode of The Office and there's like terrible rolling shutter but of course it just don't matter.

[@Shels_pwnz]

@@johnadams3038 and that’s a famous series that made millions more then anything created on a A7iv I get that as KZbinrs we have to point out the smallest of issues but in reality we are very fortunate to gear in our hands that is powerful!

[@definingslawek4731]

@@JonathanPalfrey catalyst browse removes rolling shutter for you :)

[@definingslawek4731]

@@johnadams3038 also in euphoria!

[@johnadams3038]

It makes little sense to expect the A7-IV to have same rolling shutter performance as the A7-SIII because the A7-IV is 33MP and the other just 12MP. The A1 has better rolling shutter performance but it's a stacked sensor with less dynamic range than the A7-IV. So I don't care at all about the rolling shutter on the A7-IV cause it doesn't matter, it's more important that it has the best dynamic range. Rolling shutter would probably never be a problem realistically.. even for video.

[@AntoineMatuttisMusic]

Rolling shutter can be a pretty big deal for video. Fast moving objects are always going to look bad on this camera unless you crop into S35 or use HD

[@thisiserich]

@@AntoineMatuttisMusic Even when it’s cropped, this camera is still oversampling from 4.6k. So it’s gonna look fantastic no matter what you do really. Could just get a wide angle aps-c e-mount lens and shoot video exclusively in aps-c mode. Or if you know you’re going to be shooting fast moving subjects, just switch it over to aps-c mode. Plus, with how good the image is on the a7iv, you could even shoot everything in 1080 and upscale it to 4k, add a tad bit of sharpening and no one would know the difference.

[@TheEtbetween]

Great point

[@santosovideo]

To me, this is kind of THE deal breaker. Not because the rolling shutter is horrible in FF, but I would like to have one 4K-mode (S35 is fine) where I can put it on a gimbal and not worry about having to redo a scene because of a techical issue.

[@impatrickt]

S35 rolling shutter is almost indiscernible on this camera.

[@vivlund]

@@impatrickt thank you for taking the time to point this out- very helpful :)

[@TheEtbetween]

You over exaggerating.

[@archilious]

I had a question! You quantify the amount of rolling shutter by how oblique a vertical line gets. So, doesn't that also depends on how fast you shake your camera on the tripod?

[@JonathanPalfrey]

Yeah that's kind of the point of the test. Only strong whip pans like I did here show the rolling shutter. In most 'normal' shooting scenarios you'd do with this camera you're probably very unlikely to notice it, I've not seen it on any of my actual shoots.

[@maxkovalov1315]

Subscriber #825. Here to help you get to 1000. Great video! Thanks for answering my question. I think I can safely go for the Sony a7iv.

[@JonathanPalfrey]

Haha thanks. Yeah you'll have no regrets getting the A7iv. Great camera, especially for the money.

[@arhon888]

Thanks for sharing. I have a question is rolling shutter just the distortion part? I am noticing a choppy blend between frames which I can only get rid of when shooting frame rate of 50 or 100fps particularly when shooting objects with hard contrasty edges. I just purchased a quality VND filter so that I can stick to the 180 rule, but that choppy frame is really only deminishes at 50fps. Is this normal?

[@carlosguerrerogonzalez6097]

Thank you Jonathan for the video! I am new to the camera world ( I just shot on my iPhone 13) but planning to get this A7iv for shooting real estate videos, would you say that rolling shutter would be a problem? would you recommend this camera for doing real state videography? Thanks in advance and great content again

[@sidehustlers336]

Get it. Use 4K in crop model to eliminate rolling shutter and shoot in 60 fps for slow mo. I use my apsc lenses on this like the tamron 11-20 for lightweight high quality wide angle video.

[@knowwork9]

​Amazing! Without any rolling right @@sidehustlers336

[@ronrotunno2901]

Thank you for the video. I only shoot stills (astro landscapes), does rolling shutter have a negative affect in this regard? Thanks again. Ron

[@JonathanPalfrey]

Only if you use the electronic shutter. If you’re using the mechanical shutter then you don’t need to worry.

[@GrayGhostDog1]

The situation is not if the A7IV's rolling shutter performance is unusable or acceptable, it's just that there are other cameras available today that has much better rolling shutter performance than the A7IV. No camera is perfect. All cameras have some levels of pros and cons. If rolling shutter performance doesn't effect you, get the camera... if it does, pick another tool for the job.

[@danfarmer_photo]

Great video, thank you. I am lucky enough to have the Sony a1, but I am looking for a B cam for many scenarios and I am considering the A7IV. The concern I have with the rolling shutter issues, I shoot a lot of kids dance concerts. A question for you: If I had the A7IV locked off on a tripod for the wide shot to capture the whole stage (so the kids would be fairly small), so you think it would be an issue? The kids would be moving through the frame quickly, but I am not sure that at a distance the rolling shutter would be an issue. I’d appreciate your views. Thanks so much. ✌️

[@kenchen704]

It would not be visible since your subjects are small and your camera is not moving, unless you are actually looking for it.

[@danfarmer_photo]

@@kenchen704 Thank you. I appreciate the response. ✌️

[@sampledude8846]

Good video, informative, investigative, good video.

[@amirlaukholm]

honestly the rolling shutter isnt even bad, like try the same test with the a6400

[@ifeanyiisitor7929]

Thanks. How I the rolling shutter in APSC mode?

[@matrixate]

This is not primarily a videocrentric camera. You don't buy this camera for 4k video, you buy it for picture quality as a second camera to an A7S3, or as a hybrid photocentric camera. NOTE: For A7S3 owners, we can care less about the rolling shutter because we already have a videocenric camera...but for everyone else that wants to shoot with their FF primes, a better solution than shooting in Super35 would be to shoot at normal sensor size but double the shutter and THEN use CMOS (Rolling Shutter) correction with the gyrosensor data in Catalyst (free but you export to 420 unless you pay the yearly fee...so stupid) or GyroFlow (free with no limitations but it may not have your lens profile if you have a newer lens). With both paid version of Catalyst or the free GyroFlow, you still retain all your data but you'll obviously end up with a very slight crop, which is dependent on how steady your shot was to begin with. If you shoot on a gimbal, you'll end up with superior results. We're talking about eliminating RS, not stability but you get that as a bonus - I just want to make this clear.

[@carterjmd]

A7iv is a balance between video and photo. I wouldn’t call not a “videocentric camera.”

[@Navs_Music]

Can someone confirm , if the camera was placed in a gimbal & taking a running shot of the subject does it still create the rolling shutter issue? I understand that only rigorous handheld movements will cause it but just wanted to know if this can happen in gimbal as well?

[@JonathanPalfrey]

Depends on the angle. If they are running at you then you wouldn’t see much rolling shutter however if you were running along beside then you would see it more

[@Navs_Music]

@@JonathanPalfrey Yes, im bit worried on taking horizontal tracking shot would cause some rolling shutter. Will try to see if i can get some real world footages

[@jiajianhou426]

How does it compare to R6 rolling shutter?

[@zolwikwkurwik]

I can't believe you didn't show HD in aps-c mode...

[@churchill378]

Never need to whip the camera around in this way so for me this is non issue.

[@churchill378]

@@borjaetxebarria7746 I know I already have the camera but in my use Ive not once seen any warping so this is greatly exaggerated and won’t be an issue for many people.

[@Spartanshaq777]

Most filmmakers shoot in super 35. That’s why they call it Super 35 to reduce those problems.

[@mihirjoti5627]

Thanks for your this video, You saved the price of my a7 4's camera

[@Chuakiagx3]

Deal breaker for me I pan fallowing race cars

[@pritampramanick7012]

I have seen your videos regarding Sony a7 IV and the content is really great... Everything is almost comparable except rolling shutter performance with higher end sony cameras...I want to know how does this camera perform if I compare it with BMPCC 6k or 6k pro (rolling shutter performance and 4k quality).

[@JonathanPalfrey]

Yeah at somepoint I will do a comparison of as many cameras as I can including the 6K Pro. I think shooting in 6K it's probably similar rolling shutter, however first impressions is 5.7k on the 6k pro is probably better. As I mentioned though it depends on your use case.

[@valkiron11]

If only camera manufacturers would just design their rolling shutter readouts to scan horizontally, then this wouldn't be an issue. I mean, horizontal whip-pans are FAR more common than vertical ones. lol

[@Desanton]

Почему старые фотоаппараты, снимающие в Full HD не страдали роллинг шаттером?

[@alexbeltrao2535]

I have just figured out that a7IV have the same terrible Rooling Shutter that my little a6500!!! It's unacceptable

[@chuckm482]

It would have been fantastic if you would have shown us a comparison to the A7Siii rolling shutter.

[@JonathanPalfrey]

As I mentioned in the film the A7Siii/FX3 have such a fast sensor read out neither really have any rolling shutter. They are effectively as good as you'll ever get without a global shutter. I will do a test with other cameras with rolling shutter in the future though such as the 6K Pro, pocket 4K and C70 to see how they compare.

[@samvogel2452]

the rolling shutter on the a7siii was measured by cined @ 8.7ms

[@Excalibrr1]

A7 IV has 26.8 ms in cineD lab test, f.e. the Sony A1 in 8K FF 16.6ms, but in 4K FF 8.1ms, Sony a7S III only 8.7ms (but btw.less detailed and less natural image video with brutal internal NR ), Panasonic S1 and S5 around 22ms, Canon EOS R5 15.5ms, only Canon R6 is worse with 30.6ms,Blackmagic 6k 19.8ms- but it is 6K and still better!, btw. my 7 years old 42MPX A7R2 has in 4k FF 16ms ( though in apsc 4k bad 29ms), and I am very afraid about Sony A7rV, which I was planning to buy, at last upgrade after years my old A7r2 ( because A7RV is first A7RXX with 10bit video , great display etc) , but now I dont know, more than 7 years development (and a7IV with even less Mpx sensor than 42mpx A7r2) and this is the result, not better , but worse?!! Ufuf Sony?! And I dont take excuses like it is "R" for photo first , not video, or it is "compromise for the price" etcetc.Btw. Fujifilm medium format 100S with 100mpx has 27ms, so, something to think about... At least in APS-C A7 IV, the rolling shutter becomes quite OK- at 13ms. But how it will be with A7R5 in apsc...I am tired of Sony marketing to protect their another, often more expensive cameras like A1 and A7s3 which is with 12mpx really not hybrid camera...And even to buy A1 after a7IV and main A7RV is question , and what are now thinking A1 owners? Now after A7rV with better, bigger display , " flagship" A1 has 3inch 1.44mpx vs 4axis 3.2inch 2.1mpx on A7rV+ f.e. no firmware upgrade for focus breathing etc, just Sony...😔

[@miaoxiang7377]

I don't think people shoot video the way as you tested that often, so not really a deal breaker.

[@JonathanPalfrey]

Agreed. I think in any normal shooting situation the rolling shutter is fine. Also we have to remember, the general public and client size who would be watching/commissioning a film shot on a Sony a7IV probably wouldn't notice or be concerned by the rolling shutter anyway.

[@shanecrowe1309]

I was just about to bite the bullet and buy the A7iv. How much is this rolling shutter going to be an issue with filming skateboarding? I’d be using a TTArtisans 11mm 2.8 fisheye with a gimbal up close while skating / filming beside someone, and other shoots with a 35mm 1.8 & 85mm 1.4 where I’d barely be moving, maybe slow panning but the skaters would obviously be moving quickly.

[@JonathanPalfrey]

With a fish eye lens I wouldn't be worried, it's all distorted anyway! I guess you may notice it a bit with skateboarding as it's normally in an urban environment with more straight line to skew. Overall though I wouldn't worry about it too much, skateboarding films usually are quite rough and ready, with film overlay effects etc to dirty it up so some slight rolling shutter isn't going to be that noticeable and you can always shoot cropped if you really need less rolling shutter for a shot.

[@shanecrowe1309]

@@JonathanPalfrey Thanks for the quick reply! I figured it wouldn’t be an issue with the wider lenses but these results did look a bit concerning. Cheers

[@MehmetAliKlc]

😅 Rolin / are they still performing! we are the same generation probably

[@technostarmarine8242]

I thought cameras were meant to take photos ?

[@smashedlegends]

Have you ever seen a movie? Or a video in your life?

[@Chuakiagx3]

Why I pass on the a74

[@jaegerschtulmann]

The r6 has worst rolling shutter and nobody seems to complain lol.

[@JonathanPalfrey]

Yeah true. Seems to be acceptable on a Canon haha. I guess it's the one area we didn't see a big improvement over the A7iii, hence the complaints.

[@GrayGhostDog1]

... fast-forward to today and the R6Mk2 has much better rolling shutter performance. Actually, it appears to be the best rolling shutter performance out of all the entry-level full-frame mirrorless cameras available to date. The new Panasonic S5II/S5IIX is slightly better than the A7IV, as well.

[@dash1939]

I didn’t have over 3k to spend on a camera so I had to settle for a7iv and have to live with the rolling shutter

[@definingslawek4731]

when you use catalyst browse it removes rolling shutter in your shot which is pretty great. Also you can just go into super 35 mode which is still down sampling from 4.6k and then theres basically no rolling shutter. Also rolling shutter really isn't a big deal considering massive ultra succesful productions such as EUPHORIA had lots of rolling shutter in them.

[@TheEtbetween]

Excellent Great!

[@griffith500tvr]

All these expensive cameras will lose a lot of their value when global shutter cameras become the norm, they are already out there.

[@JonathanPalfrey]

I think we will probably just see really fast read times (like the A7Siii and FX3) before we see global shutter being common.

[@griffith500tvr]

@@JonathanPalfrey Well, anything above 14 mega pixel will be difficult to read out fast, the 33MP of the A7 iv needs 27ms, the 61MP from the A7r v needs 100ms and this is a new camera. Once global shutter sensors of a decent size become the main manufacturing design then the prices will drop.

[@Rossdink]

how come I walk outside with my a7 4 it looks like absolute dog shit? I feel like my iPhone is 1000 times better. if I hold the camera perfectly still it looks good but what the hell good is that? use this camera but only on a tripod in your bedroom for porn

[@creativecomputers6060]

HD=720p

[@blenderbachcgi]

You can all blame yourselves, guys! You guys are the ones that continue praising the CMOS Sensor, saying it's better than CCD. Obviously, we have devolved. We traded quality, for a cheap trashy alternative. CMOSes were never great. They weren't meant to be used in professional cameras. But people wanted it. Well, how do you like your precious CMOSes now, huh? Try filming an airplane propeller or a whip pan. Enjoy the terrible rolling shutter, that YOU brought upon yourselves, by using CMOSes, instead of using the far more superior CCDs. If you don't believe me, feel free to reply. I have a lot of proof, why CMOSes, are a sub-par technology, just for the sake of being cheap.

[@definingslawek4731]

are there even any ccd cameras around as an option?

[@blenderbachcgi]

@@definingslawek4731 You could buy some from E-Bay and/or Amazon either used or new/old stock. Sadly, I don't think new ones are being made because CMOSes are the so called "future", even though they stink... When I tried telling this to other people, they told me I'm stupid and that CMOSes are better than CCDs. Well, they're 100% right! CMOSes are superior to CCDs! That is if you cash up 39 thousand dollars for a professional studio video camera with a super high quality CMOS with a global shutter. However, for the rest of us consumers, we got lied to. Our cameras are inferior to CCD ones.

[@definingslawek4731]

@@blenderbachcgi are any of those ccd cameras comparable in dynamic range or image quality in general to a modern high quality cmos? I suppose its not a fair question as they stopped working on ccd's, but if ccd's were so good then they would at least be way better than the cmos' they competed with

[@blenderbachcgi]

@@definingslawek4731 It's very complicated to explain, but the typical CCD DSLR is better than the typical CMOS DSLR. CMOSes have many issues which are fixed, in the 39 thousand dollar video camera, like global shutter, correct colors, sharp details, and a good signal to noise ratio. However with a typical DSLR CMOS Camera, is where the issues exist.

[@definingslawek4731]

@@blenderbachcgi is there any ccd cameras that do good video? I can't imagine carrying around a apsc or full frame Dslr that can only shoot photos, just cause it's ccd and its 10mp is allegedly so special. I had a look at the nikon d200, the images look great but I don't think it looks any better than my Sony alpha 7 mkiv. I would be interested in trying ccd for video tho

[@pematamang9268]

It is big deal breaker.

[@Chuakiagx3]

Y I pass

[@bdotvisualz7461]

One of the MAIN reasons I left sony

[@stathorinoakenshield6331]

Noone is buing a Sony A7IV to flim in Heitz D! 😆

[@sachinsahadevan1626]

👍

[@MsoMalakand]

Hello bro how are you

[@firpofutbol]

Damn it is a deal breaker. Why Sony, why??

[@JonathanPalfrey]

Depends on what you do. For me I hardly ever notice the rolling shutter. Might be a problem though if I did a lot of sports or car shoots with it

[@OrangeJungle]

That shit looks horrible lmao

[@orangerecords_studio]

If you went out ! and hoed some real life exapmpler this would be " serious", sittn in a KZbinr room, is just.......what it is .