Sony Picture Profile Comparison/Opinion - SLOG2 AND SLOG3 VS THE REST (A7S II)

[@cmg]

The first useful comparison ;) Thanks!

[@strattheodoratou7391]

years after, and your video is still very helpful. Thank you very much for all this work.

[@itscleokatra]

Might be the most helpful video on KZbin with solid comparison. Instead of opinions of which one is best .

[@frankcosgrove9958]

Keeping up the video's there getting better with everyone uploaded. Probably the most honest reviewer on KZbin. This sound quality on this vid was an improvement on previous, not that any was bad. I'm using slog2 mostly

[@HarvVideoAudioStuff]

Thank you! Really appreciate it :)

[@bartekbodak]

One of the best videos on KZbin which shows very well sony picture profiles. Thanks man! :)

[@BTaesthetics]

Thanks for this video!

[@Cade_Media]

Very clear and well presented! Great video.

[@zeoh8615]

Clearest explanation I have seen so far! Thanks.

[@bobearl6362]

Thank you so much for making this video. Greetings from California! That was so valuable for me to see all of them compared side-by-side. Fantastic!

[@MarcosRochaTV]

Awesome video, I will have to rewatch it because it was so educational. I made a similar comparison and I am definitely leaning towards Slog2 because it grades so much nicer when I apply LUTs.

[@LeonUnity]

My opinion: SLOG 2/3 for outdoors where your highlights can be blown out. Cine4 for indoors and low light where the ISO can be bumped up and retain a decent dynamic range to take full advantage of the Sony low light capabilities.

[@acepusman]

Finally, I found this one...very useful video.From this video I've got relevant examples of the basic theory of picture profile in my Sony camera. Many thanks and keep up the good work

[@scotta.7063]

love your videos mate! keep the good work coming

[@truecuckoo]

Interesting. Thanks. Can you do in-camera adjustments starting with the SLOG's? I was expecting more dynamic range with the cinematic profile btw. It was a bit shocking how the whole sky was blown out in the cinematic profile.

[@YazHeadley]

Thankyou very useful....what a lot of work you did...much appreciated

[@DaveTrippin]

Hi Harv, Great work and interesting discussion. I recently got the sony a6500 and have been very much floundering around in the deep-end trying to educate myself on how to use the new camera. I checked and it looked like you've covered a lot of Sony stuff so I've much more to learn from you. Subscribed and please keep up the great work.

[@MathieuStern]

Super interesting ! hard to find this kind of informations ... subed =-)

[@zinnaalam1886]

very help full video... thank you so much Sir

[@RichardsWorld]

The log files showed the clouds very well. The other picture profiles didn't show the clouds, it was only blown out.

[@anegi309]

Thank you so much for all the informative videos you make. You are amazing and your video are very easy to understand. Thanks for making it so simple and informative. God bless you brother.

[@gyamtsoprod2245]

Thanks for this precious informations ! I'm a new user and sometimes I am a bit lost... Now it's clearer. Thanks again.

[@bluefilmsltd]

Love this channel. So honest and genuinely helpful. Thanks mate!

[@EnnTomi1]

i just got into video world. for me right now, S-log is type of picture profile, and profile sounds like filters to a photo, which is just an effect? i know i must be wrong there, since s-log gives you more DR with more noise(high iso). but i though more DR is archived by the Sensor itself physically before any postprocessing? why does s-log gives more DR? cant the sensor give you more DR at first place? and why it has to look flat(even with the certainty that the footage will be edited) (i am casual photographer, so i do understand basics) please educated me xD PS: 7:02 i think that is why i want to shoot in logs

[@HarvVideoAudioStuff]

There is probably too much to go thru right now, really you're brushing on the difference between photography and video. The biggest difference is that cameras like this don't shoot video in raw like you would with your photos. Only cinema cameras that cost loads can do this, this way there is a huge amount of DR but the file sizes are massive. The a7s2 shoots video in only 8-bit 4:2:0 which means relatively small file sizes and therefore LOG is the best way to retain the most amount of detail and DR. Photos taken in raw are usually 16-bit 4:4:4. I'd read up on bit depth and chroma subsampling to properly understand what's going on here :) hope that helps

[@EnnTomi1]

James Harvey thanks, i just read wiki about slog, and some reviews about a7s 8 bit banding issue. atm, i only know that s log is a "thing" helps more DR. but i still have no idea how it plays out in the whole working flow inside the camera. i am thinking upgrade to a7ii from a7 (mainly for the 5-axle thing for manual lens for photo, but i do some videos and wish i can grade them into cine-like just for fun). since a7 doesn't have log, and only AVCHD. so will it make big difference?(I do want the 5-axle since i shoot slow shutter speed a lot)

[@JonnyHavens]

So the answer to the question you're asking is that the different Picture Profiles use different gamma curves when it is recording your footage. The SLog curves don't record "black" as dark a "black" as the Cine curves, for instance. Likewise, it doesn't record anything as "white" unless you overexpose a good bit. This lets you have much more detail in the highlights. I'm not really sure too much beyond that, but here is a visual representation of the SLog3 curve: sony.i.lithium.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/9156iBE98475E57D62CA0?v=v2 Notice the Rec709 - this is a reference curve. Rec709 is the name for a "properly" contrasted image. This is all due the to the fact that video needs to be compressed so heavily. You can't have 45mb RAW frames when you're shooting 24fps+ in a prosumer camera! Hope that helps :) PS if you wanna see graded SLog3 in action, the recent wedding videos on my channel were shot in SLog3.

[@EnnTomi1]

Jonny Havens i really want to know the difference between AVCHD 28Mb/s to XAVC 50Mb/s(in slog) (a7 vs a7ii). as a student, budget is my biggest enemy. i have my eye on a7ii. i want to get the most out of it(when i will be using a7ii. i will always use s log 2) but does it really worth the upgrade? it is almost double the price for that camera from a7 to a7ii. IBIS and better body is definitely speaks for itselves. i just wonder how much better the video do. how much difference the codac gonna make in this 2 specific mode between the 2 camera.

[@vetri10]

its a great tip mate you are excellent , please keep posting good videos

[@kicunghartono1]

hi, i believe most people very apreciate this videos, awesome effort.

[@neptunerecords2872]

Hello! I have a SONY a6500 camera! Please tell me in which profile it is better to shoot at home for painting in the future in the program !? And in what profile are you shooting yourself? Thanks!

[@herurishardana5618]

Very informative and useful. Thank you so much.

[@minortest2804]

Did you use lut for the red-ish main shot ? then what is the name of the lut?

[@DelReiRock]

Why all my edited PP always resets after changing the Memory Recall?

[@bluefilmsltd]

Have you tried Cine 4?

[@yttean98]

excellent comparison for me to learn, thanks.

[@TheToneWork]

Great video! I'm totally binge watching. Do you have a video on your Sony camera set-ups? I'd love to see them.

[@ParsclickTV]

very very useful, thanks

[@chekeelee6348]

Learnt it, thanks!

[@podermanifiesto18]

hat do you suggest for filming day light and wish one for night time?

[@SuBros760]

what lens did you lens did you film this with & what color grading style? I'm trying to get the soft sharp look as well

[@LeonardUlrich]

James, VERY well done. I have an A7S and a7Sii, and also edit and grade in FCP X. I agree with every one of your findings. Here's a trick: In either PP 7/SLOG 2 on the A7S, or PP 8/SLOG 2 or PP 9/SLOG 3 on the A7S ii, change your Gamma option to Cine4. You will then experience most of the flat profile advantage of SLOG 2 or 3, but be able to shoot with an ISO as low as 200! Banding is also greatly reduced. Your colour options within each picture profile can also be changed. My favourite is cinema.

[@findingjoe]

I think Phillip Bloom uses the same method.

[@OhenesJourney]

Leonard Ulrich but what do you do about the grain with slog3

[@LeonardUlrich]

Ohene's Journey I use the Neat Video Denoiser plugin. It's fantastic. Watch my KZbin video called "Nutimik Moonlight Sonata", and read the detailed notes below the video by clicking on the "show more" button.

[@TariqueEastman]

Wait what how does that make sense? Lol You just changed it from S-Log2 to Cine4 how does that combine benefits just because it says PP7? Am I missing something?

[@LeonardUlrich]

Tarique Eastman Picture profiles produce different gamma curves. Cine settings alter the contrast within a gamma curve.

[@jeremyblake]

why did't you mention cine4?

[@onenarrowdoor]

They are written in each picture profile. Just click on PP1 (for instance) and then click to the right and scroll down the PP's attributes. Never trust that each picture profile is as it was when leaving the factory - it is easy to change a value when clicking on something to have a look.

[@falconcara]

This is so helpful, thank you!

[@elams1894]

Nice vid! Very informative and helpful with no BS.. I subbed a whiles back and I'm glad.. regards from NZ!

[@DaleRoossien]

Loved this video man, just got an a6300 and i'm currently using PP8 and Cine 4. I find this to be a great "run n gun" setting, as your iso is able to stick low at 200.

[@MIMCKMedia]

When i should overexpose slog footage (most say +1 +2) how do i know how much i overexpose at the moment, when i shoot manuell? Can i blend in the exposurechart with the indecator arrow like in Photo mode?

[@borisjaviersvenss0n745]

how do you colorcorrect your slog footage? .... and do you only hold the exposure, in histogram "in the to meedle" ? not ETTR? cheers! apprecierate your answer // very very confused beginner sony user

[@commercialand]

So I am concerned about adding contrast and other things that enhance the PP's when recording video.....I have a pretty good PP for daytime, but if I add things to it to brighten the monitor, then I also commit all of those changes to the video recording, right? I feel I would rather keep that Slog 3 on some daytime video's but it is so hard to see the monitor!...Is there something I can add to bring contrast or something that makes the video look brighter on my Feelgood monitor, WITHOUT committing those changes to the video recording? I don't want to get into post production after shooting my film and find out that I changed things so much, that it makes it hard to color correct and grade. I really want the control in post for working on color and prefer a flat color profile...... I hope this makes sense.

[@vfx_jon]

I'm new. When people say expose to the right do they mean increase the iso or actually up the +ev setting?

[@AlexAlSher]

great job! thank u for this video!

[@WilliamFerreiraGT]

Loved the video!! Just straight to it

[@johnnywalker4421]

What is the best PP for a dark interior shot with proper artificial lighting??

[@exitplan2]

The shots of the park all looked pretty consistent after grading.

[@mychalsimmons4177]

Thanks so much for this video

[@gabvsky]

thank you, very helpful! subscribed

[@jithinmohan5978]

Understood well. Thank you

[@DennisMathias]

I'm glad somebody did this. Question is..do I want to fiddle with grading. If I were doing full movies and needed lots of post options then I'd at least SLOG2 it. But all we're really doing is admitting we have no dang dynamic range in these cameras. In fact, I don't even know if the gamut for ATSC(usa) has enough dynamic range compared to film. I think I'll go buy a Brownie 8mm!

[@EsGavira]

Finally something helpful! Thanks!

[@massimodambrogio]

Nice video and nice shirt! I love Textures!

[@julesrampton3489]

Hey Harv, Have you had problems with the sony camera turning itself off while shooting, this has happened a few times to me, I'm not sure if its a problem with the adapter I'm using, or the actual camera itself? It's definitely not that it's run out of battery either. Thanks,

[@dimstamat]

S-log3 does an excellent job with the dynamic range, as we see in the footage with the tree! Are these settings the default out of the camera for each PP_X? And same for the a6XXX I guess?

[@HarvVideoAudioStuff]

+Dimos yes indeed, defaults for all. I'm actually in the process of making a video about the pitfalls of slog3 and how to expose properly etc, stay tuned :)

[@dimstamat]

Thanks buddy, great work!

[@stefanotrevisan8539]

Best comparison, thank you so much! Do you use the standard PP7 and PP8 or you edit the settings case by case?

[@chapter5studios532]

Great video!!!

[@MattFromSMM]

For talking head type videos I like cine or natural for skin. S log is definitely better for outdoors

[@giovcarrillo4222]

Does it matter which picture profile number to edit if you create a custom profile?

[@moreapropos]

Good video. I think with SLOG, you expose for middle gray, which is around 38%. It changes the way the light data is interpreted, so you can't go off the histogram. You really need a waveform monitor.

[@Thevikingcam]

Or use camera's spot meter and go +2.0..

[@gravityflyer]

Great video and very informative! Quick question though -- are the Cine1 and Cine2 profiles essentially a Canon Cinestyle?

[@UCProductions]

Textures!! Great band buddy! :D Yeah and of course great video as well :)

[@shankarshing3963]

Hi sir please can you help me for my slog3 setting while I shoot slog2 in fs5 then there is one big mistake is noise iso also increase 3200 but doesn't decrease my slog2 setting is solg2/gamma is pro please can you make video for slog2 settings in fs5 my one big problem is noise while shoot slog2

[@ahmetkk01]

what about cine4 ?

[@Adrianforsenmusic]

best video yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

[@findingefilm]

You make great videoes good sir :) Personally I enjoy s-log2 in situations with good light, but i find it to creative too much noise in low light conditions with high ISO. Cine 2 for me is the best for lowlight, and extreme lowlight

[@preahs]

Hi man! nice vídeo. I've been wondering wich lenses are you using in this vídeo. how did you get this anamorphic Look? Can you Tell me? thanks!

[@HarvVideoAudioStuff]

The main shot was using a Tokina 16-28 f2.8, if you're referring to the widescreen/letterbox look, I just frame the shot accordingly and add the bars :)

[@caziteridici]

great video, thanks

[@JamesWestVideo]

Very helpful video dude

[@giorgiophotomaker]

I keep see people comparing CINE mode with S-LOG mode at 1600 iso, but if I use CINE 2 (like I do) is just because at 100iso I can get the best of colors, gamma e IQ from my sensor, with less grading in post. If I need to "save" highlights in the scene I just uderexpose and recover shadows in post. In my opinion, in high contrast situations is much better working uderexposed from 100iso than overexposed from 1600iso. (7/8 stops of difference. CRAZY! In outdoor tons of tons of ND, and lets see how much green a 12stop nd filter gives you on the skin tone) The limit of the sensor is the same in any Picture Profile, the only advantage of the S-LOG is that you can make your choice of color and light with time in post, in CINE mode you have to make most of your choices in shooting. I like your review James, but try to shoot at 100/200 iso saving highlights, you'll find all the dynamic range you're looking for.

[@macruizphotography]

No cine vs log is a 2-3 stop difference on these cameras. you will get a better image every time with log. If this wasn't true than we wouldn't do it in HW.

[@JIAHAW-NG]

slog2 and slog3 after grading are more to red color...isit normal? or cause of sensor?

[@macruizphotography]

its the fact he isnt correcting, he is dropping a 709 lut, the other profiles have their own gamma curve and color. with slog 2 and 3 you need to correct footage. in this case he needs a hue adjustment, quite simple.

[@lytranDP]

What pp did you use for the vlogging and graded portion of this vid (which looks brilliant by the way)?

[@HarvVideoAudioStuff]

Thanks very much :) hmm I think I used cine4 this time, it's usually either cine4 or slog3

[@lytranDP]

+James Harvey Thanks for the quick reply man. I will try it out!

[@Quarker]

Hey, how come you did a vom face for the a7Rii? U hurt my feelings

[@borisjaviersvenss0n745]

sony slog3 at night/indoors totaly useless? seems like cine1 its the option. and i still didnt get how to expose with slog3 what i ever do its still become noisey... please help

[@HarvVideoAudioStuff]

+boris javier svenss0n I like slog2 for low light, for me it's just right, cine1 is too contrasty for me

[@christianbeyer4508]

Hey James! Thanks for the comparison! Recently i was doing some tests with my a7s and up until now i was using the cine 2 as the gamma setting with cinema as the color profile - the results were pretty good. But with the slog 2 and s gamut i was surprised how much more detail the picture has and how it renders skintones (although it becomes a little bit yellow overall) So i was wondering, how slog 2 would compare to slog 3 regarding skin tones and overall detail - do you think that both profiles could be matched so that there is not a real visible difference?

[@HarvVideoAudioStuff]

Thanks! I know what you mean about the yellow-ish tint in slog2, i've almost always had better results using slog3. One thing that has really helped with the skintones is doing a custom white balance, i'll also sometimes add just a hint of purple on my white balance settings. Hope this helps :)

[@christianbeyer4508]

+James Harvey i see - the yellow tint is some ain in the ass for color correction in post, but i guess i try to correct in camera. Thanks man!Would appreciate you stopping by on my channel ;). Greets from Germany!

[@WorldofYPod]

its even more confusing when you also see every picture profile can be edited with different black levels, gammas, colour modes saturations etc I am having a hard time picking one to stick with - good video tho jolly boy james

[@Santiagoguyfilms]

Have, great content you have a new subscriber!

[@Bobbylopezcreative]

How do you get around those supper noisy shadows in slog2 in low light?

[@HarvVideoAudioStuff]

+Bobby Lopez Creative stay tuned, I've got a vid coming that will help :)

[@shankarshing3963]

Outdoor shooting slog2 noise problem

[@NickGulan]

Great video thanks man!! :)

[@sternik123]

HI. Which one is best for low light situation?

[@macruizphotography]

depends of course on the lighting situation. Low light with no light. Low light with skin tones lit low and there are a lot of high practicals. or preferred high luma skin tones with med/high luma practicals. if you have a well balanced low light image you could use cine 1-4. If you have a super hot practical image (that u are trying to preserve) with low skin tones you might want to use slog 2, balancing out the skin tones. Being that you are asking this question though mean slog 2 and 3 are NOT the choice for you. these can come at an enormous risk to noise if not done perfect.

[@grantballot2430]

Hey Harv - Thanks for all your great work. Your tuts are always so interesting and very comprehensive. I have always been nervous to shoot S-log but after watching all of your S-log videos again I thought I'd give it a go. I shot every take with S-log 3 and then to be safe I used my EosHD normal profile to shoot the same scene. When grading the s-log footage I found it not to be as rich as teh EosHD profile. I was getting a warmer redish colour off the lights in a bedroom scene whereas with the S-log 3 I could not achieve that. I managed to get the overall colour looking good but it just does not pop like the EosHD or look like what my eyes saw on the day of filming. My question to you is, are you able to change colour and gamma setting with S-log to represent the EoshHD look once graded but it will still give you the s-log flatness when shooting? If you answer this thank you in advance!

[@MitchPhillips]

The park scene just oges to show how good SLOG2 and SLOG3 can be. Not for every situation, but capturing wide DR they are unmatched!

[@hatchetairsoft2463]

For some reason I find the ungraded picture that SLOG 2 puts out pretty attractive.

[@peterolsen2353]

Hello Harv Really enjoy your channel. I am a New Yorker but may be moving to London - is that where you are based? I'll be there late November 2017 "scouting" and would love to meet up...

[@HarvVideoAudioStuff]

+Peter Olsen hi, many thanks! Actually no, I live in my favourite uk city, Bristol (south west England)

[@peterolsen2353]

Well thanks anyway for your reply and keep up the good work!

[@vishalpmehta]

off topic here but what is the aspect ratio of THIS video?

[@HarvVideoAudioStuff]

+Vishal Mehta I'm pretty sure it's 1:2.35

[@radeknemcansky3923]

do you play guitar?

[@findingjoe]

Did you just use the standard settings when going through each picture profile? For each picture profile you can set the gamma from S-Log 2, Cine1to Cine4 etc. Why does PP7 mean it's S-Log2 when PP1 can be set to S-Log2 as well. Just trying to understand the profiles.

[@macruizphotography]

I imagine he was assuming that the mass majority of people dont even check the settings to the pp. they just sift through and see which one they think is the best.

[@TariqueEastman]

Thanks for this because someone above was commented something and in essence they were saying PP7=Slog2 so I was hella confused for a minute there

[@jjjun92]

hello, i have a question i am going to shoot a short film with sony a7s2 and i want to make my film 'monochrome' so when you are making 'black and white' film what kind of picture profile do you recommend ?

[@HarvVideoAudioStuff]

Hmm I’ve never had to deliver in monochrome before but I usually like a nice flat profile like slog2. Any of the cine gammas would work well I’m sure (except perhaps cine3) but I would definitely shoot some test shots before you start, that’s really the only way you’ll get the look you have in mind. Good luck and I’d love to see what you come up with :)

[@jjjun92]

thx bro

[@marvin7407]

definitely s-log for daylight shooting, for low light on the other hand I'd prefer cine5

[@LacrosseWorld]

You said you shot in 1600 ISO for slog modes? I thought the minimum for slog was 3200...

[@HarvVideoAudioStuff]

+SBrax that's true of the a7s but not the mark 2

[@7705030]

Explains why I was in minumum of 800 on my mark 2 :D thanks .

[@peterolsen2353]

Hey Harv, We were in touch before...Know anyone in London I could have a drink with and talk shop? I'll be there for the next week. Just trying to meet production folks in UK. Thanks,

[@carlgunnarengelandandersen158]

Shabbat shalom my dude, i just need a quick reply. I will be filming a EDM concert this weekend with my A7ii. What picture profile should i use, its inside and might be dark! Please reply asap :)

[@HarvVideoAudioStuff]

+Carl Gunnar Engeland Andersen I've actually never used the a7II, with my a7s2 I prefer slog2 for low light. An event like that is likely to be super contrasty so I'd try and capture max dynamic range. Hope this helps :)

[@carlgunnarengelandandersen158]

Thanks!

[@danhicks1912]

Great video Harv. In PP7 (S-LOG2) do you keep the gamma as S-Log2 or change it to something else? Do you change the color mode or leave it to S-Gamut3 Cine? Also, what picture profile, gamma and color do you suggest for 60 / 120 fps? Cheers dude.

[@HarvVideoAudioStuff]

+Dan Hicks thanks! Personally I prefer S-gamut3 cine in most cases, I'm actually going to be doing a vid about this very subject so watch this space. For a HFR profile, take a look at my recent vid '5 tips for shooting better video on Sony alpha cameras' I talk about it there :)

[@danhicks1912]

Cheers Harv. I've just seen a comment by Leonard below regarding changing the gamma to Cine 4. I'm pretty sure thats what Philip Bloom uses too. What is the gamma of the picture profile changing out of interest? I would be really interested to see what effect altering the color and gamma of a pic profile does. If you alter both settings does that profile then no longer become what it started out as? I am pretty new to this really in-depth stuff.

[@HarvVideoAudioStuff]

+Dan Hicks lol it's not an easy subject to understand, the profile dictates the curve and gamma the colour space. I'll try and do the subject justice in my video :)

[@danhicks1912]

Sounds good mate, I will very much look forward to it. I can't seem to find any KZbin content on it.

[@aishwaryatripathi2551]

Harv Video/Audio Stuff Hey can we use two picture profiles in the same video.. For eg. Cine 4 and slog2??

[@yaniv1ve]

nice video, when you graded the slog 2 and 3 you lost most of the details from the highlights (cloud). I am not an expert of gradding but I thought that should be the opposite I like your videos - great job

[@HarvVideoAudioStuff]

+yaniv1ve thanks! I actually did very little to the slog2 and 3 clips, just enough so that they would be comparable to the other profiles. Usually when I grade I would spend lots more time on it and apply more colour correction/saturation/contrast/luts etc that's when log comes into its own :)

[@CarFinanceSimplified]

Great video! What's your opinion on exposing to the right with SLOG2 and SLOG3?

[@HarvVideoAudioStuff]

My current technique is to set the exposure and white balance in one of the more contrasty profiles, switch to slog and bump the exposure slightly higher. I'd say my histogram is usually exposed to the middle :)

[@CarFinanceSimplified]

Great - thanks. Have you checked out wolf crow's videos - there's a very interesting (and rather involved!) "lecture" on ETTR.

[@SamChaneyProductions]

I think S-Log 3 looked the best with the indoor video shots. Personally I think the Movie mode looks like garbage, and loses so much data there's not much you can do in post. I edit all of my videos so I don't have much need for it, but I'm glad it's there as an option for quick travel videos and the like.

[@mathisarnell8351]

What is a solid picture profile to use for low light shooting? I agree that cine 4 is too contrasty. And when someone speaks about using cine4, does that simply mean choosing any Picture Profile and just switching it to cine4? No other adjustments?

[@HarvVideoAudioStuff]

+Mathis Arnell I like slog2 for low light, I can't speak for people using cine4, I'd hope they're delving deeper into the menus to make things look the best they can :) check out my most recent vid about filming a music video, I talk about slog2 for low light situations