Space Marine 2 shatters the narrative

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#spacemarine2 #warhammer40k #legendarydrops
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Source: www.kotaku.com...
On this channel, I discuss topics like RPGs, CRPGs, JRPGs, FFXIV, Baldur's Gate 3, Diablo 4, Path of Exile, Elden Ring, MMOs, World of Warcraft, and gaming industry news.

[@LegendaryDrops]

The moment where Asmongold pauses the video, perfectly mirrors my expression when I read the article. Catch me live: www.twitch.tv/legendary_drops Also we have a discord: discord.gg/e54hzqZRYG

[@dr.a.lo.2437]

@legendarydrops, sir, you are my spirit animal and i am an AVID fan of your content. As a consumer of content of a certain age (😅) i personally love the way you clap back/stick up for yourself and us as gamers, when answering back to game journalists. Please never change your delivery and honesty when presenting us with facts/opinions regarding the gaming industry. That’s all i wanted to say today - now back to the grind 😢.

[@Blisterdude123]

I felt that.

[@underpowergaming]

If Kotaku criticizes you it's because you are doing the things right

[@imaquis8368]

Also love the shirt man, good taste in music :P

[@PulsatingHyena]

😂

[@mynamejef7963]

I DONT WANT TO BE REPRESENTED I WANT TO BE A 9 FOOT SUPERHUMAN RAHHHHHH RIP AND TEAR

[@Tom-sd9jb]

Exactly. If I was represented in 40k I'd be a servitor, dead, or, soon to be dead. I'd hate to live in the 40k universe. But I would like to play pretend every one and then that I'm some badass superhuman space knight lol.

[@coredefect6134]

"Reality?, pffffbbttt," *Revs Chainsword*

[@wolfgangrecordings]

yeah i've never got this idea of feeling represented in games, or in movies for that matter. surely the whole point (especially with narrative-driven games) is escapism and experiencing a life that's different to your own. i can't remember ever playing tomb raider back in the day and thinking "i can't relate to this, lara croft is a woman"

[@pheunithpsychic-watertype9881]

Same. I suck as a human being, I wanna play as someone cool

[@Rietto]

@@pheunithpsychic-watertype9881 Whenever I have the option in a game, I choose to play someone/thing as far from what I am in real life as possible. That makes it more interesting and fun to me. If I want to be myself I just go outside.

[@IamJustA]

Crazy how saying "I want to make games that people enjoy" is controversial Edit: Thanks for 4.4k likes! This is the first time I've ever gotten this many.

[@cirescythe]

Journos and activists basically declared hate and extremism in their favor the norm. To them even a neutral middle of the road comment like this looks like at least a controversy.

[@lucyclexenovian3361]

well... that's a good TL:DR

[@archangelgabriel5316]

You know its an agenda at that point

[@jfkst1]

Because games that are enjoyable are mutually exclusive to DEI agenda.

[@Darlf_Sevil]

They simple stop have any good moment in they life past 16 so they not belive you may not be toxsic or choice a side​@@cirescythe

[@nicolasheung441]

A white guy, an asian guy, and a black guy (who is an amputee) donning their helmets and shouting "For Ultramar!" Before leaping into space in jump pack as a brotherhood to fight for a common cause. That is PEAK diversity right there. The cutscene goes so hard too

[@BurghezulDjentilom]

and you knowingly fell for it. must consoom I guess

[@bazookapotamus4151]

​@@BurghezulDjentilomI'll bite. What did he fall for exactly?

[@deeznutz8320]

@@bazookapotamus4151 Easily satisfied is my guess, i dont care about diversity that much i want interesting characters

[@adrianbazan9166]

​@@BurghezulDjentilom and your brainwashed with this diversity and inclusion bs. Grow up and get your own brain.

[@Lone_Wandering0]

​@@BurghezulDjentilom please by all means, elaborate, or is this a failed attempt at bait?

[@KruxSmash]

CEO: "I wanted to make a fun game" 'Journalists': "WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?!"

[@sahvion1499]

Lol I read the journalist quote in the voice of the angry fish from SpongeBob. Had a great chuckle

[@paulx3274]

Journos hate happiness and fun. That doesn't sell clicks sadly. Space marine is so fun. Bloody tricky at parts and I'm only on the 5th mission now. I just spend so much time walking about staring at the epic world they created.. I always watch the ship leave because that's something they didn't have to do but did anyway, so cool.

[@StrongBulletProof]

Somehow I think that becoming a "journalist" looks something like this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2isgqF-hLNkrMU

[@petergodin84]

@KruxSmash it felt more like, CEO " I wanted to make a fun game" Journalists "that's racist, homophobic, transphobic, insensitive and I'm pretty sure you hate puppies too"

[@codyskull2594]

Also Journalists when the main character isn't black or a woman.

[@Fishpasta4]

A reminder: 1. Space Marine 2 dropped with a complete story. 2. Space Marine 2 included a multiplayer mode that wasn't riddled with microtrasnactions, loot boxes or other predatory monetization schemes. 3. Space Marine 2 did not try to be a Live Service scam. 4. The Space Marine 2 developers have been actively engaging with the community instead of ignoring or belittling them. 5. Space Marine 2 launched with co-op and competitive online modes 6. Space Marine 2 launched with a season pass but did not paywall new game modes, enemies or missions behind it 7. Space Marine 2 doesn't lecture the player on modern day issues. It simply exists to be fun. This game IS a reminder of what we lost and 'modern' game media shills like Kotaku don't want to risk their Activision, EA and Ubisoft reviewer copy status to admit it. Edit: I appear to have sparked a debate, have fun guys :)

[@leviticusprime4904]

@@HavelockVetinariijournos dont want politics they want their confirmation bias confirmed

[@b.pack3]

@@HavelockVetinarii you make no sense. We want escapism, not lectures.

[@meshies]

This is it exactly.

[@UnsettlingDwarf]

Space marine 2 released without UW support, game breaking issues like save game deletion, crashing server issues and major performance issues. Also a very low amount of content for 80$. It’s ok to like the game but to praise it to the extent people are is sad af.

[@Furiouspenguin27]

⁠@@UnsettlingDwarfI experienced none of these issues and paid $60. Playing on Angel of death I’m at 14 hours into the campaign and still not done.

[@kstringer7485]

We don't mind characters who are diverse... we just want characters who are more than just their diversity

[@thebear-ob2di]

Spacemarine 2 literally had a black guy that was an amputee, yet no one brought it up cause that was not what defined him. Smh

[@JohnSmith-h6d]

Caiiron is such a badass too

[@aarondimoff5180]

@@HavelockVetinarii The day a black guy makes a video game, he can make as many black main characters as he likes. Nobody stopping him. Whites guys making white guys as main characters have literally no obligation to make anybody any other colour. You want something? Make it yourself.

[@dallaire876]

​@@HavelockVetinarii What are you trying to say?

[@johnbaker770]

​@@HavelockVetinarii you're acting like true crime new York didn't have a black main character and that people didn't actually enjoy the story

[@Furiouspenguin27]

@@HavelockVetinariiare we ignoring Miles Morales or…

[@T3h_Marganus]

You know you're doing something right when Kotaku writes a hitpiece on you.

[@raics101]

The funniest thing is that the dude hits the nail on the head and doesn't even realize it. He says that the warhammer universe isn't a place for moral sermons, and that's the crux of the issue. This game didn't have any, as it should be, but if ubisoft made it, you can bet your ass it would.

[@AoGbeverage16]

Alyssa mercante is seething rn haha 😂 People are so tired kotaku appeasing to the weirdo liberals and sweet baby inc narrative.

[@UnluckyHistorian]

It's like my pastor dad always said. If you don't have moralistic busybody talking shit about you, then you aren't doing it right.

[@leviticusprime4904]

@@raics101”in the grim darkness of the far future there is only war” the literal introduction to everything warhammer 40k

[@ardour1587]

​@@raics101Yeah. I mean, before every WH game starts you have a notice, that it is a very dark future where there is only war 🤷 But I guess, everything is fine with "moral sermons" in some CoD game, cuz you play as US spec ops, invading and assasinating people. For democracy ofcourse..

[@iFlu]

Netflix's Arcane is the single proof needed to dismiss any article saying gamers want only white male action. This serie is the best piece to showcase how well written characters fit into a world WITHOUT rellying on their gender, sexuality, race or whatever else.

[@theclosedbox]

Cait and VI tandem is not forced and wholesome... Unlike some of the "modern" tv series that forced other to be lesbo just to have an agenda.

[@obsida]

Tbh netflix almost did nothing in making arcane only riot games and fortiche did make it (they just bought rights to distribute it and if i remember correctly riot though releasing arcane on youtube )

[@James_Bee]

Overrated woke garbage.

[@alexandergrushevsky4528]

THIS. 146%. Amazingly well-made story with lots of passion and love by a "normal human screenwriters". And so you live with characters and feel them.

[@simulatedrainn]

the problem is that the gaming journalism industry is rife with stunted emotional manipulators who cannot fathom the concept of someone not basing their entire identity around their race or sexuality. to them, a minority who isn't defined by these things might as well not have them at all, hence the stereotypes and tropes ld mentioned.

[@CAG420]

I emailed Saber interactive through their website and wrote them a well earned “thank you” email. Basically just said how grateful I am for them as a dev team and how much of an awesome job they did. Next thing you know the Creative Director sends me an email back thanking me for me the kind words and support! It wasn’t a generic ai response either. It felt genuine and the fact he took the time out of his day to reply is pretty awesome. Saber must be protected at all costs.

[@amx9122]

That’s cool as hell man

[@eollin2097]

I think this a great idea and more people should reach out to the dev teams they appreciate in this way. I would bet that getting that email truly brightened their day.

[@JoeTheCrusader]

That’s awesome! Definitely will be supporting this game more and more now.

[@bumponalog5001]

I would like to send my support their way as well, what email did you send it to?

[@roachisalive2548]

The devs have a page up where u can contact them and speak to them to give them idea for the game and they will tell u if they will or can’t or will look into knowing this means they take every response they get and give the best answer for it NOW THAT A FUCKING GAMING COMPANY WHO CARES

[@quangminhngo313]

Can't spell ignorant without IGN

[@Purple_Wayne]

Nailed it

[@cbombaz]

Omg! Dude! totally this, lol

[@SeaFletcher]

Only 100 likes? Let’s change that!

[@team_fiasco]

Classic, good steal but still relevant

[@LazyEyePolitics]

And asmongold. Damn that's a lot of letters

[@greymanjones5559]

I know this is totally not the topic, most people are talking about in the comments, but MAN.. at 8:20 Biggus Dickus just does some straight anime shit. Walks over, picks up our guy and as he finishes the revive, turns around and blocks the enemy attack, grinding backwards from the impact. What an absolute TANK.

[@iconicusensign9624]

Name checks out.

[@nateg6021]

Thanks for bringing this up. Worth the replay.

[@dannydarko210]

Biggus Dickus made my spit my caprisun. Thanks for the laugh dude.

[@aoyuki1409]

thats why he's named Biggus Dickus

[@pigeoncoop5560]

Chaddeus

[@iownall2222]

Its fricken hilarious that people say SM2 isnt diverse. The MAIN squad is a white dude, an asian and a disabled black guy. The BIGGEST difference is the fact that NONE of the characters in SM2 make race or disability their defining trait and that its not the center point of the story. SM2 is HOW diversity should be done. Its not forcing these things into the story nor forcing some sort of narrative about these aspects of the characters.

[@AoGbeverage16]

They hate it because it doesn’t pander to their agenda haha They’re just pissed people are making a stand and not listening to their rhetoric.

[@ashbecker]

^ This 100%

[@wolfgangrecordings]

exactly man, diversity's done right when you don't notice it, as soon as you draw attention to it you're fetishizing difference at best and indulging in tokenistic pandering at worst. space marine (and the grimdark setting in general) presents a very inclusive version of humanity, because the whole species is united by necessity in order to face the myriad threats in the galaxy

[@wanderingmercurymarauder761]

The game isn't diverse. You have a handful of factions in a game with substantially more factions. Last game had Space Marines, the inquisition (debatable), and Cadians versus Chaos and Orks. This game has Space Marines, Mechanicus, and Cadians versus Chaos and Tyrannids. Basically they just swapped the disposable enemy fodder faction and added Mechanicus. The franchise has Necrons, two flavors of Eldar, Tau, Leagues of Votann, etc and then you have Imperium factions Sisters of Battle, Sisters of Silence, Adeptus Custodes, etc and even the guard have different regiments such as the Kriegsmen, Catachan jungle fighters, Elysian drop troopers, Vostroyans, etc

[@wolfgangrecordings]

@@wanderingmercurymarauder761 that's not the same kind of diversity though is it

[@SorrowHead]

How the fuck this is the only industry where critics hate consumer base,games themselves, but also want you to play games (which I repeat again, they hate) in THEIR SPECIFIC ways. And that's supposed to be the norm? Not a single tear will be shed when they go out of business.

[@GangstarComputerGod]

I know it sounds crazy conspiratorial but it has a lot to do with government and investor funding. Entertainment and gaming in particular are “soft power” and a huge way to influence society. When the government or global organizations want to enact particular viewpoints, they fund initiatives that do just that. I think that’s why we’ve seen this in both television and gaming fandoms. They are targeting these but have done it so clumsily it’s backfiring.

[@Benjaminy2k]

It isn't. Movie critics have a low opinion of your lowbrow popcorn movies, book critics have been allergic to anything a normal person could enjoy for a century.

[@mynamejef7963]

Because Israel and its people exist still

[@cognitivedisability9864]

@@GangstarComputerGod It is not conspiratorial, people need to wake the hell up, they think everyone in the world live in a kumbaja world? READ HISTORY, there hasnt been a time where humans do NOT conspire. Ill even take it a step longer, we are living in a time where warfare has become so destructive, all we can do is proxy and culture wars. Someone, is trying to destroy western civilization and all it stands for.

[@Mikedot]

@@GangstarComputerGod All of that is 100% factual. Nothing conspiratorial about it.

[@marnix1579]

The three main characters of SM2 are diverse. You’ve got an exiled white man, a NCO and leader who is asian, and a handicapped and sometimes zealous black man. Plus your CO, who is your junior by many decades is a ginger.

[@jessielynch5926]

Finally, scottish representation in games.

[@PrimroseParadox]

"is a ginger" lmfao

[@jmlaw8888]

Exactly. Chairon and Cpt Acheran both are representation for disabled people. Amputee and ginger respectively.

[@marnix1579]

@@jmlaw8888 Lacking a soul should count tbh 😂😂

[@sirpieman300]

Lacking a soul just makes you a blank in 40k 😂​@@marnix1579

[@andrewlittleton4690]

"Make a character about who they are, not what they are." ^ This right here, perfect

[@Canniption]

All I noticed is every game they said was going to be a smash hit, a great game etc., failed miserably. Every game they said is "too niche" or "troublesome" have been super successful.

[@oddursigurdsson9637]

They only say a game is going to be a smash hit or a great game etc. if they are bribed by the publishers. If they are not bribed they either give a real review or a bad one

[@leviticusprime4904]

@@oddursigurdsson9637never forget about the game spot Kane and lynch review

[@Rietto]

I remember for YEARS the 'common knowledge' was that isometric RPGs were a dead genre nobody wanted anymore. Larian sure showed how full of shit the 'common knowledge' was (and honestly, kept making those kinds of RPGs regardless over the years, because they make their games out of passion, not buck-chasing).

[@ni9274]

IGN gave a 8 to Space Marine 2 and called it a great game

[@dannydavideos8106]

Penzuiz0 tapped about it and loved space marine 2

[@Ellrindir]

The quote "You know what's brave? Making a character about who they are, rather than what they are." hit hard dude, so true. Love the Spiritbox shirt btw!

[@Tex_actual]

Kotutaku and IGN are so out of touch with gamers today that what ever they post I immediately assume the opposite of what they said was true.

[@Choom89]

lol right, they just poke their head up out of the gutter every now and then.

[@Scruffynerfherder10]

They aren’t gamers, they’re just a bunch of grifters and bloggers who are paid way too much money to write nonsense articles about an industry they actually don’t know anything about.

[@Thund3rstone]

@@Scruffynerfherder10 This. They are not even journalists.

[@Nytrusdeathcyde]

​@@Scruffynerfherder10isnt that just games journalism entirely ?

[@oompalumpus699]

They can barely pull the same views and comments that meme videos do on their blog. That's how irrelevant they are.

[@PhthaloGreenskin]

Titus isnt even a str8 white male. Space Marines are completely Asexual. They usually have 2 reactions whenever they see two humans kissing or smashing. It's either a head tilt like "why are those mortals locking lips?" Or disgust. There was a scene in The Emperor's Gift where a Grey knight initiates telepathy with an inquisitor as she's getting pounded by a gaurdsmen and he describes the feeling as "my skin crawled with discomfort." In that same book he's in a coed shower with said inquisitor and her retinue and a sister of battle watched him washing himself and said "mmm your ascension to knighthood is a great shame". Hyperion doesn't understand that this comment means she's lusting after his genewrought form.

[@rhydianrogers2485]

I was going to mention this. They complain about inclusivity but most the guys on the battle barge are in one of the least represented groups. And the big thing that makes it good in 40K is it’s explored. It’s used as a tool to show how different space marines are from humans. An example I like is in the ghazkull book is a woman sees a space marine(rune priest I’m pretty sure) naked and finds it completely unlikable. She even notes that while she prefers women that the marines body is so unnatural that even she notices the lack of attraction. When something makes sense, is explored and is used as a tool then it’s good.

[@armintor2826]

Sounds like a wild fucking book lmao

[@ChristianGonzalez-qu6fs]

Asexual? I thought they were just sterile

[@Sassy_Witch]

Why the fuck would an Inquisitor bang a guardsman lmao

[@StarboyXL9]

Inquisitor getting railed by a guardsman? WTF?

[@OfficialKirby]

"But I want it to be done right, and I'm sick of it being done wrong" DAAAAAAAMN

[@JoshuaKelly-hf2kx]

“Had to be me, someone else might have gotten it wrong.” -Mordin Solus

[@TheBorgey]

They're just mad because "made for modern audiences" is the biggest red flag in gaming thesedays.

[@prettyboyg1278]

They did it to themselves. Most people heard them out and they screwed up over and over again, to the point where 'made for modern audiences' equals 'low quality product' now lol

[@izenheimreborn6390]

​@@prettyboyg1278 It's like a trigger word nowadays. Something like how you'd teach a pet or child "no"

[@Dan_Tasty]

@@prettyboyg1278 I agree with this sentiment. IMO there's absolutely no issue with actually appealing to modern audiences instead of making the game equivalent of dad rock and expecting to be a tastemaker. Corporate sociopaths have made it a hellscape for people with earnest ideas and a legitimately good product who want to add preferred pronouns or diverse body types in their games out of fear they'll be conflated with $hit like Concord and it will hurt sales. OSRS just got massive backlash for it despite being in an absolute renaissance. Unfortunately I don't actually think it's any dev doing it to themselves, rather investors and executives doing it to real artists who might otherwise have a shot at making something great

[@talesofgore9424]

the modern audience is gonna show up any day now! You'll see! You'll see and you'll rue the day!

[@talesofgore9424]

@@prettyboyg1278 The leftists that took over the industry have had over a decade to 'WOW' us with their output. I've yet to be imrpessed.

[@cloudsRniceC0M3]

PC gamer:Gollum 64% Space marine 2 60% never forget

[@ni9274]

This has nothing to do with PC gamer

[@sarcasm-83]

@@ni9274 But he saw this comment on another video and wanted to copy paste it for likes, get off his back :< Popularity points are important (to some)...

[@Sebastianator01]

@@ni9274isn’t pc gamer another part of game review problem?

[@degeneratephoenix8889]

@@ni9274 I mean the broader message is about how game journos are so out of touch and pander that they are afraid to give actual valid critique anymore. PC Gamer scoring a game as monumentally awful as Gollum higher than Space Marine 2 is an insult and direct example of how out of touch they are.

[@TheTolnoc]

Dustborn is literally a government funded project, funded by at LEAST two governments.

[@xClintBeastwood]

Chairon and Decimus after Kotaku’s “straight white male” arguement: 👁️👄👁️

[@GruncleSpartan]

Real 😂

[@mooshrooom6853]

and Gadriel

[@HaloFTW55]

Don't forget Major Sarkaana of the Cadian 8th Regiment (Lord Castellan's/Creed's Own), I wonder if she is related to Lieutenant Mira from the first game.

[@jamesj5612]

I hate kotaku but let's be honest a lot of straight white males in the 40k hobby hate minorities. I have seen comments saying PC modders can "fix" the non white space marines race, disgusting

[@anotheryoutubeuser5379]

@@HaloFTW55 wouldn’t she be a great grand daughter most likely? Unless they’re at a high enough rank to receive the slowed aging treatments

[@DamagePlanXII]

"Make a character about who they are, rather than what they are." That line slapped so hard it shot my phone across the room. Great vids mate. Very much enjoy your content.

[@ni9274]

You need to realize that ethnicity and gender is often part of who someone is, people from different gender act differently, people from different ethnicity and culture act differently...

[@christianf9411]

⁠@@ni9274if your ethnicity and gender DEFINE who you are. You are lost. That type of person has no identity.

[@YHShinVH]

​@ni9274 No, duh, genius, isn't that obvious? So besides your race, who else are you? What seperates you from everyone else from your own race? Or do you think all people of any given race all behave the same way? If you can not define yourself beyond your race or sexuality do you even have a real personality? Are you just a walking stereotype? One among many that blend together with no freedom to be who you truly are? How can you be who you truly are if you don't even know who you truly are beyond the identity placed upon you by the world?

[@anotherusername9598]

​@ni9274 Either you're promoting stereotypes in writing characters, or you missed the point of the quote. Yes, things like that influence who someone is, and there are many good characters whose stories heavily involve that part of their identity. But this quote was referencing the "characters" who don't have any character beyond that

[@smokelingers9857]

​​@@ni9274You think people would get sick of diversity propaganda if they didn't have enough common sense to know that different people are different? The point being made is that the characters are being identified before they're being made interesting, or in some cases, after they're made awfully, and there is very little thought put into those being, as you say, part of the whole. And just to further clarify, the quote specifically points out the preference of one over the other in the case that a writer isn't inspired enough to do both. We'd rather read about a character making interesting choices with interesting consequences and then you slap a color on them that doesn't conflict, than to have a gay transgender character that you slap a generic, uninteresting, and often inflammatory script to.

[@todo9633]

The same people who try to lecture you about morals are the ones who will try to push children into gambling addiction, or discriminate on immutable characteristics and hire people for their demographics rather than their abilities.

[@anom5389]

Its the same thing they did with Wukong. All the outlets wanted confirmation from the devs about comments that were made and they did the correct things by responding with “no comment.” Genius! Its the ultimate own for these activists posing as journalists.

[@ardour1587]

They are under control. "Sweet baby Inc" was trying to force "assisting in writing" to Wukong developers, but they said they are fine. Also you have to pay for the "assistance" naturaly. And if you refuse they openly threaten you with negative media representation. For example Bungie studio has deep and long financial relationship with that particular Inc. And allmost all main actors in their game are...special :)

[@clintonleonard5187]

​@@ardour1587Damn they straight up have a woke mafia in the gaming industry. So disgusting.

[@ni9274]

From the devs ? The devs do not manage social media or mails

[@Flesh_Wizard]

​@@clintonleonard5187the rainbow mafia is real lmfao

[@tortepasti2]

@@ardour1587 What are you talking about? Neither can sweet baby inc force someone, nor is there any wide range of bad press about it. Also between Halo 1, 2, 3, 4, Reach and Destiny 1 and 2 where are these supposed special main characters? Thirdly, you cant find sh1t about the supposed "deep and long financial relationship" between these two. Misinformation much, my friend?

[@youngkhronic2243]

I think there is a huge disconnect from gaming journalists, vs people who actually play games. I am a gay white man, I have people as friends you would consider very far left leaning people, friends who are furries and are just as gay as I am. Yet NONE of us hate this game. We all love it, to the point where one of my best friends is planning on making a warhammer cosplay now. Space marine 2 is successful because it takes a story, that has been going on since the 80s and it didn’t do anything with imposing morals, or standards in its game. It did what it set out to do, have a fun, easily accessible and digestible avenue to enjoy the world of 40k. And no matter how badly gaming news outlets will try to make people believe 40k is “all about big straight white guys” when literally there are people of color, alien races, fucking demons that make people gay, and planets literally solely revolved around the theme of certain human cultures.

[@concerninghobbits5536]

Wait I knew 40k was sick as hell but there are DEMONS THAT MAKE PEOPLE GAY???? WHO??? I MUST KNOW

[@leshtricity]

you really don't have to preface every comment with your identity qualifications. it's becoming lame.

[@PhantomGato-v-]

Trans girl here, and also a big fan of SM2, though it may be because I'm a huge fan of everything Warhammer 40k in general...

[@airplanemaniacgaming7877]

@@leshtricity as a straight white man I have to kindly ask you to keep your mouth shut, because the original comment was made to show that they are in fact NOT what Kotaku and the other brainlet "journalists" are claiming would be the only audience.

[@aakashdeepsingh871]

as a brown indian guy, i enjoyed every moment i played as lord titus a straight white male character in space marine 2. only regret i have is i was so hooked to it it finished it too soon.

[@CHIEFLUKE101]

I wouldn't call Kotaku a bear. More like an annoying fly

[@cirescythe]

Nah. Kotaku is the thing flies tend to land on.

[@Blisterdude123]

You poked the greasy pig! Oink oink reeeeeeeeeeeeee

[@simonlarge2052]

Do bears make it in the woods?

[@SM-mt8pz]

@@cirescythe Good one lmao

[@lavawulf]

@@cirescythe this ^

[@TheTolnoc]

Sweet Baby is not responsible for all of it, or probably even most of it, but they're the most publicly visible source of it, as such, nobody knows who else to blame at this point, and nobody else who IS responsible wants to step into the line of fire. Solidarity... until the rain starts.

[@hastyhawkeye]

Blackrock and Vanguard look into the founders.

[@nvalidwerdz1078]

I think Asmongold referencing Catcher in the Rye and the 'journalist' referencing an imagined game cover really sums up the intellectual levels operating here.

[@lolololololo97]

I have always felt that way about catcher in the Rye. I remember telling my English teacher back in high school essentially the same complaint almost 30 years ago

[@pheunithpsychic-watertype9881]

That book was responsible for actual violence than any video game

[@Spectacular_Insanity]

To be fair, no one likes Catcher in the Rye. Just sayin'.

[@Rietto]

I forget what games 'journalist' called Wukong something like 'a Chinese spin on Planet of the Apes', which is so wildly ignorant it honestly shocked me. One could call it racist, almost.

[@Ashley-lm4nv]

If Asmongold had read more then 1 or 2 books you would know most of literature is about a selfobsessed loser.

[@AlexanTheMan]

I can't believe Game Informer is the one magazine that took the fatal blow but somehow Kotaku still steals air to this day.

[@Cybertruck2022]

Kotaku’s articles are often written by idiots. Video games strength isn’t that it can impose morals, it’s that it can let you explore them. Mass effect is a perfect example of this, the morals are presented to you, and you get to choose what resonates with you, or explore what doesn’t. Bioshock infinite is a case where the morals are instead forced upon you, and while that game was very good, it would’ve been better if the player had an actual hand in the narrative, because then the blame falls upon them, instead of the faceless main character. By not letting the player make a choice, you take them out of the equation in the story. It no longer becomes: what have I done? It instead becomes: This character has done this. Stark difference to me.

[@fojisan2398]

>Bioshock Infinite >Very good Pick one

[@Cybertruck2022]

@@fojisan2398 I pick both.

[@TheShadowOfZama]

Reminds me a bit of how in Spec Ops: the Line there's a point where you use white phosporus on your foes only to find out afterwards you burned a lot of civilians to death. There are indicators such as STOP signs that you are descending down the rabbit hole, however there's no alternative path. If you wanna progress you gotta use the white phospor. Of course I can understand why they did that as the descend is the main story of the game. That being said it would be nice to get a game as well in which players are for the most part duped into taking the horrible choices because they are the straight forward choices and only people who look hard for alternatives find ways to progress without commiting the horrible deeds. Of course one of my favourite all time games was GTA San Andreas so if the game is good I dig it either way.

[@Loreofw0rlds]

So crazy that all this drama was spurned from Space Marine's creator saying, in essence, "I don't want to make a game whose core message says anything more than, 'I hope you have fun with our game.'"

[@High_Lord_Of_Terra]

Red dead redemption 2 has a massive moral message and covers diversity and inclusion without being preachy. You can find out details of npcs lives that aren't explained on the surface, you have to dig or be nosy, just like in real life. It was awake, without being woke.

[@ni9274]

Example of what you consider a game being preach when covering diversity and inclusion ?

[@Blopusanian]

@@ni9274 Lol Dustborn.

[@boopthyblophiy5548]

The statement he says “stop making characters about what they are and about are the about who they are instead ” hits hard as someone who is lgbtq. the opinion that any representation is good even if it’s just stereotypes is such bullshit, I don’t like a character because they are gay or straight or trans I like them because of who they are. It’s why I love guilty gear because every character is interesting and there design reflects that and there is a lot of cast diversity but even if they were all straight they would still be interesting.

[@saucygoat8287]

Warhammer is for anyone who will enjoy it for what it is. No one said you can’t enjoy it, but it makes no sense to change a 30-40 year old property that has been this successful for 30-40 years, just so you can enjoy it.

[@rivtekk]

Tell that to Amazon. They’re gonna try their hardest.

[@Ddarth_sidious]

@@rivtekk Yep yep, already doing

[@1337penguinman]

The sense of entitlement these people have is ridiculous.

[@SophiaAstatine]

I don't know about you, but I'm glad they've changed a whole lot of the OG warhammer stuff over the last few years. As someone who grew up seeing Warhammer change as it did in the 00s and 10s, I'm far happier with how it is now. Yet I can't even enjoy that because all the while, GW has one-upped itself over and over as horrendous and unlikeable at every opportunity. Kotaku could do way better talking about the history of malice towards the fans and awful conditions of their designers and what not from the company that owns the IP. They'd find plenty of good reasons to be upset that way.

[@Sebastianator01]

GW is going more woke so enjoy 40k while it lasts lol. Nothing lasts forever. These guys are going to drown themselves out and take us down with them. God I love this game. I’ll see you guys in another 10 years when they drop another 360-ish game.

[@mrturbo84]

The Gaslighting in the Article is so on the Nose. Crazy the boldness.😂

[@johnj.spurgin7037]

Honestly, a prime example of a diverse and yet still fascinating character is Chairon. He's black, but that's secondary to the imensely significant fact that he was born on Clath, a historically significant planet in the lore, which ties in to why he HATES chaos marines.

[@Spigliobibberton]

I load up Space Marine 2, I play game, I enjoy game. Saber achieved their goals in my opinion.

[@rumplstiltztinkerstein]

Its so sad how many people doesn't understand that Warhammer fans doesn't want to live in the universe of Warhammer. Some people think that we want to have a God Emperor and spend the rest our lives being cannon fodder guardsmen in some unknown dangerous world.

[@deanrazor9023]

The intro to all Warhammer 40k novels even states that it’s a completely awful place to live. It’s kinda like, a lot of people have an interest in WW1 but no-one would want to live through it. The idea is to take shit like that and to put it at a galactic scale where you can have almost any story play out, with all the cool stuff from every sci-fi and fantasy IP combined

[@rumplstiltztinkerstein]

@@deanrazor9023 Exactly. When I see the argument that warhammer is "bad" because of "fascism" I just say "no sh*t sherlock"

[@BrickyMySticky]

@@rumplstiltztinkersteinIt’s the reason people like the franchise! Now more than ever its a break from all the garbage thats being thrown at uus nowadays. Praise the emperor for Warhammeer not following the narrative!

[@Nick-ue7iw]

Those people have no real interests and have to graft their personality onto products they consoom, and just assume everyone is as soulless as they are.

[@ArneBab]

Let’s look one year back. BG3 is inclusive for all genders and it totally rocked the gaming world. *And* it does not pull any punches. Larian made a game that’s fun and intense and brutal. Now others do the same with other settings. And it seems that it works.

[@PrimroseParadox]

BG3 supports creating a trans custom character, homosexual relationships, has numerous people of colour in major parts of the story and world... I could go on. No one seemed to be particularly upset by that. Because the game was good, it wasn't performative about having this stuff - it just did, and it didn't do it through overemphasized, painful stereotypes. It was all just part of the game, part of the world. Many big publishers could learn lessons from that.

[@ArneBab]

@@PrimroseParadox Yes - that’s exactly what I mean. You can do politically good things and you can make them profitable, but the focus must still be to create a good game. There’s no shortcut to that.

[@mostlyjovial6177]

What bothers me is the CEO isn’t a “republican” from what I can tell, he’s actually been quite progressive in the past, but daring to say “I don’t feel like moral messaging should matter to a game more than fun” apparently made him a horrible person who goes to white supremacy rallies. That says more about the people in power than anything. If you aren’t using your platform and product to push what they see as important you’re evil. I’m definitely progressive, even support the ideals these lunatics claim too as well, but I can’t stand getting talked down to by something I wanted to enjoy. That’s all they do.

[@Choom89]

That's what the left does now, label and dehumanize. Divide and conquer. It's military tactics seeping into their vocabulary.

[@Tom-sd9jb]

I used to be progressive until they started trying to brainwash me against objective reality. Now I'm a pragmatist, like a leaf on the wind.

[@declancampbell1277]

its not even just talking down to, its straight up browbeating. As you said, its "i will tell you what to think, and if you dont agree you're evil". Its straight up extremism. Everyone is happy to hear about how monsterous the far right is, nobody wants to acknowledge the far left extremists.

[@habibi8964]

If you’re a man and identify as progressive you are part of the problem

[@mrtoestie2707]

Imo is just a massive case of revenge syndrome. The “modern audience” keeps getting trashed on and the games with them in mind as an audience keep failing. So they instinctively go to trash games that are quite the opposite; not through logic, but through ego.

[@gelinrefira]

LOL since when has anyone treat WH40K as a moral story other than an overwrought grim dark fantasy? Strawman indeed.

[@plmokm33]

It's more that when modern games are made that aren't specifically 40k the devs tend to put in a bunch of modern morality lessons into it so it's always refreshing when someone just doesn't do that.

[@Fissiccisst1]

Literally every single right wing racist fascist idolize universes like WH40k or characters like Punisher because they think they're correct and that is a good place to be. They unironically see them as optimal outcomes. This is why all of them lost their minds about the female custodes thing.

[@Hawk-Eye-bs2hr]

​@@plmokm33There are modern issues like non-binary gender and the lbgtqi++++69. It's called Slaanesh cults.😂

[@Vox_Popul1]

If you mean that there are no “morals to the stories” in Warhammer lore then you’d be wrong

[@ni9274]

@@plmokm33 You mean some modern games have political theme that you don't agree with ? Why do you interpret political theme as "morality lessons" ?

[@MMT399561]

The amount of games that "shatter the narrative" latly really give me the feeling that there is no fucking narrative.

[@AlwayzFresh]

How is Kotaku still in business? Can't be for long. Cheers and congrats to the channel growing.

[@Ragehaven]

They spread "The Message" they will always find money.

[@JudgeNicodemus]

Hate clicks and external funding.

[@Hawk-Eye-bs2hr]

Blackrock

[@ChrisRedfieldsbloodline]

They are a propaganda outlet for our masters. They will never run out of money.

[@vewyscawymonsta]

We've been saying Kotaku would die for like a decade now.

[@GutsOfRivia]

Im sick of being preached at. Im glad these game jurno tactics dont work anymore.

[@Relhio]

They never worked, don't worry. People arguing online about these games are 0.001% of the players, the actual players are busy with their lives and playing the games when they have time. These discussions are just issues that don't exist.

[@GutsOfRivia]

@Relhio You are right. But this tactic use to work on game companies why do you think for the past 4-6 years we have been getting so much trash, especially in the triple A space. Fear from becoming contriversial because a game jurno site is gonna write and artical.

[@Nick-ue7iw]

@@Relhio It has absolutely worked, to get people fired, to force political agendas into big game companies, and to bury good games in waves of hatred because they didnt push the narrative. You Are Not Immune To Propaganda.

[@barthollomewhunt7320]

They are terrified of straight men having fun in video games.

[@CrusaderAdam]

Congratulations are in order for the achivement

[@YasaiTsume]

The problem with "modern audience" games is that it's artificial. No, it's not because of diversity, it's not because it's woke, it's because it's fake. Real games that naturally embrace diversity do not make it a point of their game nor do they make it a selling point of their game. It's just asinine that the crusade of diversity has lost the plot so hard that you have things like AC Shadows which shoehorns a black man into a Japanese setting. No, I'm not saying Yasuke couldn't have been written better, nor am I saying he doesn't exist, but imagine being a Japanese and seeing someone totally random and not Japanese being a hero of your cultural setting. That's crazy, that's actually crazy.

[@Choom89]

Americans thinking they're the protagonist in every situation.

[@Furiouspenguin27]

@@Choom89the rest of the world is obsessed with America and mad that we couldn’t care less about you

[@declancampbell1277]

i mean you've just described what "woke" and "DEI" is. Its shorthand for a wider issue that doesnt actually have anything to do with actual inclusion and diversity, nor politics in gaming. I see very little criticism for the political nature of cyberpunk 2077, which is anti cap and has people of every colour, sexuality, and even gender with a trans person. Similarly i see very little complaint about Disco elysium, quite possibly the most overtly political game to have ever existed. Because they care about making a good game, not preaching their activism and browbeating players over the head with it. Like you said, "woke" games are just fake box ticking exercises that turn diversity into a caricature of various peoples. Or just boring characters with no thought behind them. All in the aim of looking inclusive instead of actually being inclusive.

[@Fittkins]

Agreed. It's out of touch executives with business degrees that only care about pandering to an audience that only exists on spread sheets, making decisions cause they think people are dumb enough to fall for it.

[@nizzie16]

@@declancampbell1277 we tolerate divergence from the norm as long as it’s not in the center. The reactionary virgin losers start crying the second the main character doesn’t look like them. Case in point: AC.

[@lynnright666]

I really liked that part "make a character about who they are, not what they are"

[@stef88d]

By poking "the bear", I think you mean a drunk racoon in a trash can.

[@bren42069]

Trash panda

[@chillhour6155]

A sassy drunk raccoon

[@SirChocula]

I lol-ed 🤣🤣

[@normalusername5223]

Being apolitical is a far-right position.

[@leviticusprime4904]

I love how journos will complain that people call things woke and yet they themselves call everything far-right

[@roscoeorginal]

@@leviticusprime4904internet discussion is so cooked😭😭

[@marmadukesandwich]

This guy gets it. If you're not stopping the far-right, you're letting it happen. If you're complaining about things being "woke", it's because some Russian funded nerd-rage hack grifter got the idea stuck in your little incel brain.

[@wolfgangrecordings]

@@leviticusprime4904 either you're with us or you're with the terrorists

[@Rat-czar]

Yes because everything has to remind us of everything wrong with everything, everyone, at all times

[@alzef1375]

"I want everyone to be able to say he's just like me fr fr" sounds like a wholesome note to end a video.

[@KodySmithson]

I’ve been saying this forever: Entertainment exists for the majority of people to take a break from mondern socio-political issues. Not shove it in our faces when we’re trying to rest from it. Also this is how I believe cancel culture works. Cancel culture NEEDS to have a boogy man and they make one by making these games annoying soapboxes for disgruntled disallusioned people that thrive on contraversy and when someone (literally anyone normal) has their rest time interrupted by the very thing they want a break from, they say or do something they didn’t truely mean. They try to catch people in a weak vulnerable state, assume the person is ALWAYS like that, then shut them out from society and call that “social justice”. No. That’s making people unwillingly frame themselves as a patsy and satisfying some twisted messiah/hero complex due to you having a lack of significant power in real life so you resort to these rigged witch hunts. The means is simply all forms of entertainment such as movies, shows, games ect.

[@Electric_Fence_Pence]

speaking of beloved characters let's not forget about Sgt. Maj. Johnson, the second most badass character in Halo.

[@sotch2271]

"I know what the lady's like"

[@Black_Templar_Marshal]

Why do you always jump? One of these days you’re gonna land of something as stubborn as you are and I don’t do bits and pieces

[@Waytheresawill]

So happy Saber refuse to engage with IGN's baiting after the 6/10. Disingenuous org needed taken out to pasture 5 years ago. Edit: confused ign with pc gamer. Point stands though when you consider they gave War Within a 9 while Space Marine 2 gets an 8 or any other example you can think of.

[@zen_7748]

It needs to be taken out back and shown the sunset.

[@michaelrice7280]

that was PC Gamer...not IGN

[@Ultramarines117]

IGN gave an 8 out of 10 to Space Marine 2. I’m a Warhammer 40K fan,and I give a 9 out of 10 to Space Marine 2.

[@grum7140]

IGN gave it an 8

[@MeatCognition]

6/10 my ass. The game definitely needs some optimization (what game doesn't after launch), but it's been an absolute 8.5/10 banger on release for me. I already have 40 hours in and I am VERY particular about what I play these days.

[@Marcavian]

It feels like when the gaming industry constantly pushes people of color or LGBTQ+ representation in narratives, it risks desensitizing the audience. The real issue is that these companies don’t want a united voice-they need these subjects to create division, rather than fostering genuine unity. If you look at almost every comment online, people are usually disagreeing and fighting over semantics-almost as if it’s by design

[@ni9274]

It's not "people fighting and disagreeing" it's one side saying "LGBTQ+ and people of colour should never be included in video games" and the other side saying they're wrong the anti-woke side is getting weaker and weaker, games like BG3 that are extremely woke get ignored by the anti-woke

[@uberghost9064]

@@ni9274People rarely say what you stated. Making a note about forced diversity for tokenism isn’t the same as saying diversity shouldn’t be in the game at all. How you even conflate those two distinct statements is beyond me.

[@YHShinVH]

​@ni9274 As a mexican, i don't give a shit if the main character is black, brown, white, or asian. All i give a shit about is if the story and character writing is good and if the gameplay is fun and feels rewarding. All the woke games out nowadays have forgotten how to write good characters, good story and good gameplay. They've replaced all these good things with forced diversity to trick stupid people into thinking the game is deeper and has more to say when in reality the characters are nothing but shallow, borderline racist stereotypes, and hollow, soulless, gameplay loops that need to be padded out with microtransactions and battle passes to keep your attention and investment. The fact that you think people hate woke video games because they think brown people shouldn't be in the games shows how out of touch with reality you are and how surface level and superficial your understanding is of why people hate these games in the first place. People don't hate woke games because there's a black guy in the game. They hate it because the black guy is written like ass, his dialogue is garbage and reinforces stereotypes, the gameplay sucks, and the story is even worse. You are defending a pile of dookie and then wonder why everyone is disgusted by it. It objectively sucks but you're too blinded by the dookie stench to see the truth.

[@Snipergorillanut]

@@ni9274​​⁠No. You’re just making that argument to over generalize and simplify this conversation to fit your own views. There’s no issue with LGBTQ representation. It’s this constant virtue signaling that games are supposed to sell off of diversity points alone, whilst lacking any actual substance. If you’re going to do representation, it shouldn’t be the selling point, it should be done right. Stop dumbing this down to match your bigotry.

[@blakepollock8074]

these comments prove it is a little more complex, people adopt certain types of messaging over time that they bring with them to each debate. it is not the subject that is the issue, but the reinforcement. reinforcing ideas regardless how in touch with reality they are. the push behind representation has always been both a hot button issue but also fatally nuanced. without us being able to reach a consensus understanding of the implications we are working with, we end in argument all up and down the spectrum of comprehension. that's why pundits that blatantly misrepresent the issues at hand for whatever cause or reason are successful.

[@gio87vr]

When we as boys played Tomb Raider 1 in the 90s we weren't represented by a young woman with pyramids on the chest, BUT we didn't give a damn about it, we played, we enjoyed, we wanted more. Why right now there is such a visceral need to be represented in the gaming medium? Something smells, and smells badly. Representation is just an excuse to inject politics in a medium that doesn't need to recreate even our sorry political situation. We play to stay away from reality for some hours, then the new generation of big wigs in the industry start to pollute our evasion. Should we let them do it?

[@bruceal4797]

Bro same with perfect dark

[@AGW99-df3yg]

People need to drop the "playing to escape" sentiment. You aren't escaping, you're exploring and experiencing things. It's still real, it effects you. It's a cultural medium like books and music. And what they're trying to do isn't just inject politics in some vague sense, it's to push YOU specifically out of your own spaces.

[@andypants1062]

​@AGW99-df3yg Books can also be considered an escape. And it can be. If someone doesn't want to participate in the real world, only throwing their minds and focus into fictional realities, they are escaping. Whether video game or book.

[@gio87vr]

I wrote "for some hours", and even if some are alienating from the real life, anyone can't preach to them about it. The world is changing towards "1984" by Orwell: censorship, new language, rewriting of history, cancel culture for ideas, morals and people. And they want to inject this ____ even in our safe haven? Just stay in your """happy""" dystopia, let the Gamers stay in a simpler place for some hours. And sbi and the others instead need to pollute the Gamers safe haven. It's obvious we'll fight for our simpler place.

[@gio87vr]

@@AGW99-df3yg ​ Out of our spaces? The world is a clone of "1984" of Orwell with constant surveillance, censorship, rewriting of History, new language, cancelling of ideas, morals and people and if the Gamers want to keep safe and unpolluted their safe haven then they are the problem? I'm sorry but because of this rotten """new culture""" I'm more than happy to stay away, and I know I'm not alone. That's why we don't want their gangrene in our entertainment. If they want to fester this world they can try, but our safe haven should not be touched by their insanity.

[@kaizerlock8287]

They think "YaSs QuEeN! SlAy!" would sell, but in fact, we just want *"B R O T H E R S"*

[@JoshuaKelly-hf2kx]

“SLAY THE FILTHY XENOS QUEEN!”

[@KarlDRG]

Brother I am pinned here!

[@Black_Templar_Marshal]

Indeed

[@lazaroskarmaniolas7410]

I'd go for *"S I S T E R S"* myself. Y'know, Sisters of Battle?

[@PhantomGato-v-]

​@@lazaroskarmaniolas7410The Adeptus Sororitas are genuinely super cool and I'm pretty sure they'd sell as well as the Adeptus Astartes, but nobody takes the opportunity lmao

[@michaelrossel7339]

I had to read catcher in the rye to, and I wanted to put that Chauffiled character into his place from the first time he opened his mouth.

[@ferocious_pooh]

The mob tried to cancel you! You made it man!

[@Fluff_gobocat]

I don't believe that "mob" is the proper description for a few guys in their mother's basement.

[@ferocious_pooh]

@@Fluff_gobocat not A mob, THE mob. As in “the woke mob”. The word has more than one meaning, look it up.

[@ferocious_pooh]

I guess yt didn't like something in my previous reply since it seems like it got filtered. There is a difference between A mob and THE mob. The word has many meanings.

[@Mag1ckan]

They ain't gonna cancel nun. They have no power and world's showing them that everyday

[@Fluff_gobocat]

@@ferocious_pooh "the woke mob" is the term used to refer to the large collection (a mob) of people who follow often radically liberal ideologies, and are often known for attacking those who disagree with them, this isn't really the "woke mob" this is a handful of writers who are completely incompetent at most tasks and logical thinking who are attempting (and it seems largely failing) to stir up controversy in order to drive profits. I doubt there is any real drive about "morality" or actual beliefs, they just know that they have had some success saying batshit insane things in order to get more clicks and thus more money.

[@gelinrefira]

Making mountains out of molehills? Sounds like my ex.

[@filipbitala2624]

They are not that small, they are atleast average

[@TheSometimeAfter]

HHahahahahahdhshahahaha

[@grasstastic9922]

@@filipbitala2624most guys make molehills, mountains aren’t even that common, way above average

[@bugmachine777]

I love how they talk about inclusivity without mentioning the black character with a robotic arm

[@AndragonLea]

The long and short of it is this: Mainstream media, consulting firms and investment companies thought that the general public really loves diversity and inclusion. So much so that it is as important if not more important than gameplay, cohesive storytelling and immersive game universes. The public and, more importantly, the paying customers, disagree. No amount of passive-aggressive articles, fulsome praise of diverse game characters and reassurance that criticism could only come from a tiny fringe minority of far right extremists can change the fact that, in the end, the paying customers decide what they like or don't like. If the vast majority of the customers liked this stuff as much as games journalists, Twitter slacktivists and diversity and inclusion consultants claim they do, we wouldn't be seeing games that prioritized these aspects over the actual gameplay and world building flop as much, hard and fast as we are seeing right now. They're simply wrong. They're wrong and they refuse to admit it because people with six to seven figure salaries have their pride and reputation riding on being right and the majority of access media and mainstream media writers and publishers agree with the ideology that would benefit from them being right, so they're trying to brute force acceptance and support for these products by loudly and publicly denouncing anyone who would disagree with them. They know they're wrong, they're trying to browbeat the target demographic into supporting them anyways and turning lie into truth to save face. It's not going to happen because no matter how much power they think they have on social media platforms, in the end every customer will be alone with his wallet and shopping cart when they decide what to buy and they simply won't be bullied into buying a product that isn't to their taste because some bubblegum-haired harpy on the internet will think less of them if they don't. Personally I'm heavily amused by the fact that various vapid and obsolete unpaid advertisement arms of big publishers masquerading as games journalism outlets are trying to paint that KZbin comment as "controversial". Controversial implies that the idea expressed is somehow inflammatory, radical or otherwise provoking. It isn't. All of the answers to the comment show that people agree with the sentiment expressed within it. It's not controversial, they're trying to make it seem controversial because about 5 or 6 words in the comment go against the ideological bent that all of the parasite companies attached to major games publishers collectively agreed to push.

[@ni9274]

Baldur's Gate 3 disprove your whole essay, also there are no games where diversity and inclusions harm gameplay, storytelling or immersion

[@AndragonLea]

@@ni9274 Baldurs Gate 3 doesn't disprove anything. The diversity wasn't what brought people to buy it, the deeply beloved Baldurs Gate IP coupled with Larian Studios proven track record did. It would've sold just as well if you couldn't get freaky with a bear. Sure, it happens to be diverse, I never argued diversity was a guaranteed reason for franchises or products to flop. It certainly didn't harm the game because diversity was one of its attributes, not the only saving grace in an otherwise terrible entry. My argument was that companies pursuing diversity at the cost of cohesive worldbuilding or immersive character design caused these issues. As for diversity never having caused a product to flop: you could argue that lack of talent, artistic vision or competent leadership caused all of the recent DEI-heavy projects to flop, but that's a bit like arguing whether the egg or the chicken came first. Suffice it to say that almost every product I've seen come out that led heavily with gushing praise about how diverse and inclusive the cast and worldbuilding are in the last five to ten years has been mediocre at best and terrible at worst. I wasn't an insider during any of those productions so I can't tell if they started out promising and got ruined when the various movers and shakers started compromising on that to be more inclusive or if they were always stinkers and the inclusiveness was just a last ditch attempt to either save the mess or have a good excuse in the form of "those radical istophobes" for when it flopped, but I really don't need to be in order to see a trend there. Conversely a lot of products that just happened to be diverse came out just fine. So maybe you're right there and the correlation is just hacks using minority groups as human shields against criticism. That said, it still won't cause me to buy a game just because some overpaid wannabe journalists call me names for not liking it and imply that I must have something against green spiny aliens or shroom people if I don't support Concord.

[@uberghost9064]

@@ni9274Making a character in the middle of Norse mythology black for tokenism definitely has an effect on immersion

[@mattyb2944]

@@uberghost9064it’s also disrespectful to people of Scandinavian and Norse heritage. But that’s fine to disrespect them, they’re white. Can you imagine the response to a game with a white main character set in ancient Africa? There would be a meltdown. It’s a double standard and I don’t really care anymore if some self-righteous, self-obsessed whack job with bubble gum hair and mental health issues calls me a racist. Really don’t care, and that’s a problem, because being called a racist used to be impactful. The word has been thrown around so much by DEI champions and “woke” folk that it has lost any real meaning.

[@talesofgore9424]

@@ni9274 You know what would *really* disprove his whole essay? If y'all in the modern audience would actually *SHOW UP* and *BUY THINGS*

[@troyh3628]

Ok, Saber basically has done this already, and I've posted this on other people's channels, I motion that we take a page from Saber's book, and also stop reporting on what the game activists write on their pages. No more reporting on Kotaku, IGN etc. let them be forgotten.

[@Rietto]

Writing outrage bait is a legit method of them to farm engagement, clicks and profits. Ignoring them is the best way to make them hurt.

[@ni9274]

Saber ? A company is more than it's CEO, it will be hilarious when you realize most devs at Saber are "woke"

[@Nick-ue7iw]

@@ni9274 Saber removed a writer because he was injecting lefty politics and delayed the game to fix it. Pretty sure most of the people there are not "woke", if they were there would have been a mutiny.

[@gelinrefira]

Didn't Salinger wrote Catcher in the Rye written precisely to castigate this kind of childish, self-indulgent mindset? Isn't the whole book about castigating exactly this kind of whiny, self-centered "journalism" that infects western media, not just gaming media.

[@WrottJackson]

You really think someone like Asmongold would’ve picked up on that? The dude’s job is to steal people’s content and reupload them onto his own channel.

[@Blisterdude123]

@@WrottJackson Look I'm not Asmongold's biggest fan, but...what does that have to do with anything lmao

[@eruantien9932]

@@WrottJackson I think it's more a problem with how required reading is handled in school; I'm from the UK, and entire generations despise specific Shakespeare plays (and often as not, Shakespeare's work in general) because they way they were taught as the required reading for class was horrible. It took me more than a decade to reassess my opinion on Shakespeare, and today I rather quite like the plays, but when I was in school and uni I hated Romeo & Juliet and The Tempest. The way Asmongold spoke of Catcher in the Rye sounded to me like the memory of high school reading; he did say he "had" to read it, after all. It's likely he hasn't reread the book since then. And why would he? He didn't like it, why should he waste time going back and repeating something he didn't enjoy? (The answer is he was likely given it badly, but how can we know for certain?)

[@WrottJackson]

@@Blisterdude123 he’s not even competent enough to make his own original content and all he does is watch other people’s YT videos, why would you think he’s competent enough to have the reading comprehension to understand The Catcher and the Rye?

[@WrottJackson]

@@eruantien9932 yeah but how does that excuse having the complete wrong interpretation of the book? If he wanted to talk about it today so matter-of-factly, he should’ve reread the book. Hell, he could read it out loud on stream, it’s not like he cares about ownership or stealing other people’s content. It’s literally 95% of what he does.

[@playamcnugeegames8267]

There are legit so many characters in video games that are diverse that are still liked by the audience, it has nothing to do with skin color or gender, it has all to do with a well written character.

[@PennitentOne]

“We worked on halo back in the day” Yeah these guys knew their stuff. Old halo was the best, most simple formula out there.

[@DirtySerb]

Kotaku is like a crack head itching to get just 1 more hit off that Blackrock Pipe!

[@pipwolverine]

8:06 "You know what's brave? Making a character about WHO they are, rather than WHAT they are." bro you hit the nail on the head here

[@demoniclemon5052]

'You know what's brave? Making a character about who they are rather than what they are' DAMN

[@mattforthelikes]

I hope Frostpunk 2 can blow up in the same way these other games have. Frostpunk was EXCELLENT and Frostpunk 2 made a huge risk to innovate on its concept rather than iterate while also maintaining the upstanding philosophies that have made Black Myth and Space Marine so successful.

[@krwiopijca7159]

I think that they will end like Darkest Dungeon 2. Good formulas are for improving, not rid of for something new. They could do a spinoff in this situation. Sorry for my English

[@AnimeAnarchist-rp2ob]

lol, Frostpunk is a game that requires a brain to paly. Zero chance that it's gonna blow up the same was as the casual shit like Wukong and SM2, dude.

[@leviticusprime4904]

@@AnimeAnarchist-rp2obif only though

[@ZeroXSEED]

@@AnimeAnarchist-rp2ob You assumed they would care to test gameplay Frostpunk, due to the setting, is about some of the most politically incorrect game in existence. Child labor was the least of the issue. And yes, I don't care about this, and I know FP are very gritty setting where sacrifices and hard decision are made. But the hysterical twitter goblin does.

[@AnimeAnarchist-rp2ob]

@@ZeroXSEED The original Frostpunk has a higher critic score than user score. lol I think you all just like inventing these things in your head rather than just play and enjoy games, bro. Life really ain't all that bad, it's okay to smile and enjoy it.

[@AvatarV]

Making a character about who they rather than what they are. Bars. 🔥

[@shreddyfans]

Few will get this. I was telling my wife that this is the ultimate male fantasy. Her reply was "yeah untill you get in a real battle and see your comrade's skull split open by a bullet". I told her that she is partly right. We don't have a fantasy of violence and death and dystopia. We have a fantasy of being able to endure even in these sorts of situations. To have the brotherhood and the mindset and the strength to persevere. Which is something we lack today. We do not glorify violence. As tolkien said, "I dont love the sword for its sharp edge or its bright blade. I only love that which they defend". Self sacrifice for what is good and just is the ultimate meta-narrative. Few get this. People like warhammer and dont understand this consiously. But deep inside, they know.

[@ivokostov2676]

Hell right. Horrible place but makes you rise and show the best points and do the thing against all odds. Just go on adventure do some crazy shit and feel hearth pumping up.

[@mokadelic4037]

Many games have been shattering the narrative for a while now. But these corporations simply won't listen. The only solution we have as consumers is to close our wallets until they either comply with our demands or go bankrupt.

[@MerlinTheCommenter]

You don’t have to say you’re on your own side. It’s bait. They’re baiting you. It’s an old play they did with the comics critics back in 2017 thru 2020. Guilt by association and by having you reply, you play into their underling/superior dynamic they’re trying to set up. Now they know you play into it and can get you to react to other ploys. When in doubt, refute them with mockery instead of trying to explain your own philosophy. They want you spending time on THIS drama and NOT on critiquing. I hope this makes sense.

[@collinE83]

I think one of the great things about Space Marine 2, and maybe Warhammer as a whole, is that there’s already a deep world and tons of stories already created that people have been a part of for years. They have the luxury of just making a fun game while some properties have to balance the world building while also providing a fun experience. And some developers get lost in telling the story instead of making a fun game.

[@chrislaurent1137]

Going to say this again. Nothing wrong with diversifying your palette but like making a cake, just because you decide to add every flavor and ingredient to the cake, that doesn’t mean the cake would taste good. Often times, you will end up making SpongeBob’s Sundae; utter slop.

[@cirescythe]

Yup. I LOVE diversity. The diversity of chinese food, indian dishes, a greek platter, some schnitzel, maybe a mashup of two or three cultures. I dont want a grey blend of everything served in a rainbowcup three times a day.

[@darvekt]

As a person who might me mistakenly described as SJW, I completely don't understand the "one way" people elaborate their thoughts. What is the problem with people in understanding that you can have your moral values about diversity, inclusion, socialist-like mindset and still be able to enjoy gruesome dark games where racism/sexism/any wrong value is present (when made with sense and a reason that has to have an impact on audience)? I am not a baby, we are not babies, we understand that yeah 80's movies were full of stereotypes and do not represent human complexity at all for example. Yet they were entertaining and fun, it was the power of art. These people who keep polarizing the discussion just to set the "we vs them" boundaries, that "if you do not have the inclusivity in the game agenda, you are fascist" are the saddest people who could ever work for a magazine, site, game dev (or, just to say, $weet Baby inc). And it shocks me to have the need to say this, as I value these elements more than anything else in real life.

[@fajarqolbinur]

you know its good when they cant pretend it does not exist

[@blackestyang7528]

Astro Bot is a wake-up call when

[@Silath01]

11:39 it’s cos those characters WERE characters, not just a skin on a checklist

[@vandelayindustriesreal]

Asmon calling anyone a loser is always funny

[@mnbrodi]

yeah a guy, who owns 3 companies....what a loser.

[@KingBobbito]

@@mnbrodi he's an okay dude but the man lives like Gollum, I don't care how rich he is.

[@Vaultkid21]

@@mnbrodihe literally sleeps next to a wall covered in his bloody boogers.

[@BroBomba]

They say we hate diversity, but I haven't heard anything about Chairon or Gadriel from Space Marine 2. A black and asian dude. It's probably because they're just there being awesome Ultramarines and fitting into the story without talking identity politics or something like that.

[@mariodearmas7631]

“CUT DOWN THE ALTAR!!!!!” Pretty appropriate sentiment here 😅

[@theforkedman3030]

It's funny how people still don't like companies using stereotypes of them and now you get called a bigot for not liking them using stereotypes.

[@emanuelacosta2541]

Dude, I'm coming from Asmon's channel, honestly I feel like a VIP being able to watch your video directly after release lol. Amazing meta we live in right now, thanks for your work, we appreciate it a lot. Greetings from Argentina!!

[@natehanson9672]

As someone who supports diversity I like seeing videos like this which call out bad diversity. I’d like to see diversity portrayed genuinely by people we care and understand whatever different culture or group is portrayed instead of generic stereotyped characters made by people who don’t understand the point of diversity.

[@LikeAFemaleDog]

I don't think games "need" to be inclusive. To me, the best path isn't to be inclusive, or non-inclusive, to have sexy or un-sexy designs. I think the best way is to just allow developers, and the companies paying these developers, to make whatever the fuck they want, whatever the fuck coincides with the picture of what they want the game to be- and then just accept it for what it is. Not this, "let's not make the protagonist black" that you see in the comic industry; Not this, "let's not make a super-hero movie where the protagonist is a woman" that you saw in movies. Allow creatives to be creative, and judge them, and their work, based of what they set themselves to do, instead of what they didn't do.

[@ni9274]

And who are the people who systematically complain anytime a game feature a character that isn't a white male ?

[@LikeAFemaleDog]

@@ni9274 oh, that's just George, don't pay too much attention to him. Oh you're being serious? The only people who constantly and "systematically" complain about a game that doesn't feature a white male are idiots whose opinion should not be taken seriously. Not to be confused with others who also complain, although to a lesser extent and often only limited to certain kinds of games and certain kinds of developers, those who often are comprised by disgruntled consumers who experienced the shift in the industry, and its decline on certain aspects, and blame the decline on that same shift. After all, humans are creatures with amazing capabilities on pattern recognition.

[@DarksideGmss0513]

@@LikeAFemaleDog Ok we let them do whatever they want they they make micro transaction the game.

[@uberghost9064]

@@ni9274Pointing out obvious tokenism isn’t the same as complaining, you see, to have a problem with conflating statements & opinions.

[@thetexasdolly7885]

It was nice feeling represented as a man, promoting brotherhood and men looking out for men. Ive missed that in gaming.

[@wolfgangrecordings]

the irony is that the things you mentioned being somehow negative is itself a dated stereotype of men. it's a man's world, men have everything they want, men are strong and capable, how dare they complain etc... and yet, suicide is the #1 cause of death for men under 40 largely because society enforces these stereotypes on them. men are just as fallible, and vulnerable, as women are so any support or sense of community they get, from men or from women, is alright with me

[@shidditiddis]

I think Fable 2 was the pinnacle of being able to tie in different looking & thinking characters without being preachy, while also presenting you with hundreds if not thousands of moral qualms to choose from. Hammer was a big ol gal, Garth was a black mage, Sparrow a poor commoner. It touched on *everything* from monarchal society to the essence of fate vs free will to being a deadbeat dad. There will never be another game like Fable 2 in my opinion.

[@stronkveak5917]

Propaganda is easily digestible, that is why it is so successful. But nuance? Nuance is hard, it requires intellectual honesty, first and foremost. Hence in the end it loses.

[@possiblyzslot838]

Saber has ex-Bungie employees who worked on SM2?? The statement the CEO made about the addictive shooting loop of Halo is so reminiscent of the 30 second rule Bungie employed for Halo it makes so much sense now

[@justinheister7949]

You deserve this and more. It’s not easy being a voice of reason in this day and age. Keep up the hard work man.

[@LegendaryDrops]

Thank you so much

[@Angry_Custodes]

legendary drops ladies and gentlemen. i was actually screaming thank you at work out loud when you clapped back at kotaku. keep up the great videos man!

[@Asfragged]

I like how they say "dares" as if the norm in gaming nowadays isnt an LGBT whos a minority in the West.

[@ni9274]

LGBTQ+ in modern games are a minority but ok