Why No Star Citizen Ship is Safe From Nerfs & “Balance” (Ft. EvenLease) | Launch Sequence Podcast

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

An update. The DPS conversation about the Corsair was a bit off. The information referenced was outdated!

[@AchillesStyx]

Hi, just wanted to thank you for your hard work and the podcast! Also wanted to add my 2 cents to this particular podcast, I think the corsair change is awesome if the co-pilot gets to rotate the guns and you asked the question about Drake ship being "known" for more guns less armour, which I think generally WILL be the case for Drake, but then Ironclad is sold as a armoured freighter and I think all manufacturer's will have a good range of ship classes.

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

@@AchillesStyx I think the Corsair should be pinned as an armed medium freighter as well tbh, just like the Andromeda. I agree, though the Corsair could be cool with a turret there, though it still means the co-pilot is splitting their focus. Thanks for listening!

[@matthewfletcher4627]

@@SpaceTomatoToo I don't see it as split focus, but gaining more tools. You're on the chin turret most of the time, until the bogie is in your rear. A quick flick of a switch and you're back on them. I did this in a Reclaimer, and flicking between turrets was genuinely a thrilling experience

[@luistigerfox]

@@SpaceTomatoToo I do think it's a bit of an oddity that some of the most heavily armed ships currently available are not combat specialized. Obviously the single most heavily armed vessel we have access to rn is, (hammerhead.). But aside from that some of the most heavily armed craft we have access to at this moment are the constellation/corsair. Also though this change reduces the alpha strike of the pilot in the corsair, moving the bottom guns onto a different capacitor significantly increases the actual sustained dps of the pilot.

[@Charlouf_]

@@matthewfletcher4627 it's a fixed turret, your aim range is about a 1inch / 3 cm wide as a square. And i'm actually searching for a copilot that can just be a tool, to left click when i do, without moving gimbals, as i aim the center, so you don't have to aim. PM me if you are interressed i'll drop a CRUZ LUX crate so you don't have to move, easy job, just left click, nothing more, hope u will enjoy CIG's multicrew thx

[@blackworldtraveler3711]

I alpha/beta tested games like Tachyon:The Fringe, SWG, Earth & Beyond, Eve Online,etc. so not surprised by any of this. Been expecting it and saying this was coming since 2014 on Spectrum forums so doesn’t really bother me. Never made sense to get comfortable with ships and functions so early in development. This is just the beginning so buckle up! I’m going to keep playing,testing,reporting bugs, and enjoy what’s there.

[@Biggerfoot]

Your incorrect the only reason it’s going to happen is because ther releasing new ships to sell so people like you take there money and spend it on the game because your low skill

[@callsigngrimdoll]

​@@BiggerfootNew ships are easier to make than redoing old ships. New tech is easier to put on new ships than going back and trying to force it into old ships. It's about new systems coming into being not running a live service game.

[@Biggerfoot]

@@callsigngrimdoll incorrect thats just a terrible excuse you cant add 30 ships and then say well we refuse to update those ships so you have to spend more money to buy new ships, your just wrong, new ships are not easier to make then old ships thats false small changes are easier then creating a whole new ship that logic makes no sense, new tech is the same adding it to a new ship and a old ship, cleary example is the new uids on every ship, and finally your just making excuses with no reason or logic what anything your speaking about just to defend a company scamming millions of dollars, there are no systems coming into being ether... drop pods where never even added and a complete scam.

[@TastelessMax]

Tachyon was a blast! Really neat that you tested it.

[@subklueless]

EnB man, whew. You ever play Jumpgate?

[@zeyosin1771]

NSN ->New Ship Nerf, while the Corsair has been out for some time, I still consider it on the newer side with an impressive front arsenal to protect itself, from would be ruffians. Hitting the proud nails isn't necessarily what I would call "balancing". I won't be buying anymore ships, now that I know they are willing to cripple our daily drivers based off THEIR original selling points. They say they have a plan but I can't see or understand it with these knee-jerk changes.

[@BigLD]

facts, Constellation & Hornet owners better be gripping tight to what they have, based off CIG Logic of kill counts, they are NEXT

[@RicoZaid_]

1:02:15 Exploration means good scanners. Good fuel efficiency. Piracy is an implementation with a tool (ship). Piracy is not the tool (ship).

[@VideoSage]

28:50 - On the idea of open communication from CIG- that ended years ago, when they started holding SO MUCH stuff back, for Citizen Con, or SQ42. From there, it is no surprise they wouldn't even discus gameplay changes.

[@JClif]

Awesome podcast. I believe the biggest downfall of CIG is their communication and transparency. They need to explain the nerfs and let us know what's the overall plan. They way they do it makes people distrust the changes.

[@Hamisback]

How to fix the ion: Make its flight performance like a slow heavy fighter as it should be. Change it's gun to cyclical cannon. First round a laser, second round distortion. Give its shots massive spread at all ranges, with a slow fire rate. As it heats up, allow it to get more accurate and fires faster. Once it hits a certain heat threshold, it then fires both distortion and laser simultaneously. This would it great at fighting slow stationary capital ships, but struggle to hit fighters as it would need to warm up it's guns to get accurate shots on faster targets, who will close the distance and out maneuver it. Corsair: Suffers from the general failure of all turreted multi-crew ships. Turrets all in poor locations, they don't fully articulate and cover their full possible bubbles (Most turrets can't even look up more than 50 degrees.) They need to move all the turret locations. Just like most drake ships, the pilot has a shit ton of fire power. It's literally a bigger cutlass black with less missiles and bigger guns.

[@TheGavric]

They wouldn't have the degree of balance problems they have if they had a consistent, technical, build guide for ships. They're just making things up and "fixing it in post". That's why every new starter ship is exponentially better than the ones before. It's like they're making every new ship the new rule of cool to pump sales.

[@PursauntYapper]

They are designed before even play tested, in pretty sure they don't white box the gameplay balance with just the cross section expections and weapon loadouts

[@cthree87]

New ships are better than old ships because they get better at building them and use better tools and have a better idea of what the final gameplay for it will be. The early ones were largely mocked up prototypes, see Reclaimer and Harrold. If they had a build guide they developed in 2015 and rigidly stuck to it knowing almost nothing about building ships for a game that doesn't exist every single ship would suck and they would never get better. What you're really asking for is "make them like you're new and haven't quite mastered it, then make all the rest the same way, forever, just to be consistent."

[@PursauntYapper]

@@cthree87 that isn't what I'm saying at all, the prettiness or even functionality has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. It is mostly from a combat perspective but it is a key metric because of the game design. All other things can be tweeked easily like top speed, turn rate and G's it's all just numbers in a spreadsheet. What isn't as easy changed is the physical dimensions ships, it is a full rework to address it. And the physical size of the ship is 1 of the 3 pillars of balance: size, flight performance and gunnery. Only 2 of those really can be changed

[@ZackSavage]

@@PursauntYapper I think he was replying to OP comment.

[@JackMelqart]

well, the Ion should be a Sniper, a slow firing big damage weapon. imagine a really slow rate of fire, like 6 seconds between shots or something, coupled that with a maneuvering speeds toned down would solve the its overpowered against fighters issue, without really fu@ up the the roll and gameplay what it should be. a big ship hunter from far away.

[@qutatron]

About guns in industrial ships: even 2 little bulldogs in my Vulture are sometimes usefull. I had multiple situations when I was able to defend myself from AI hostiles in asteroid fields, or shoot AI Npc's on the ground preventing me from salvageing abadoned ships around wrecked caterpillar. I changed to size one atritions and I was able even take out hostile cutlass around this places, so it have some uses.

[@jrzgcwrocks]

See me & you are more aligned - while they were discussing your point & even the Corsair as an "explorer with all this firepower" it's like bruv.... What if you're in fkN pyro? Or Magnus?? Where no laws are in place & Anything can happen?

[@qutatron]

@@jrzgcwrocks exactly.

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

@@qutatron the guns are useful. It's specifically the MARKETING them in battle that is weird to me. The Raft and the medical Pisces have images of both flying into battle guns blazing. Weird look to me.

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

@@jrzgcwrocks all explorers have defenses, the Corsair has a particular focus on offense. I absolutely believe and acknowledge they should be able to defend themselves, though. I'm not disagreeing with that in the pod from what I remember.

[@Lazuralus]

​@SpaceTomatoToo The name of the Corsair plus its firepower hints that the true purpose of the ship is not just exploration... People shouldn't direct compare Drake ships with other Industrial ranges IMO. We all know what Drake are really about...

[@LucidStrike]

25:10 "The community" is not always right. CIG did say when the nerfed the Ion that a charge mechanic was needed to balance it properly, and folks weren't considering that the Ares isnt SUPPOSED to do well against smaller l, faster ships. The WHOLE oint if the nerf was that it's supposed to counter cap ships and be vulnerable to other fighters, especially light ones. CIG could still invite suggestions, if only to appease backseat developers, but there'd still be backlash when CIG does something they as the damn professionals think is a better solution. Open development doesn't mean development-by-referendum.

[@RicoZaid_]

💯

[@andrewboyer7544]

You're telling me the Ion isn't supposed to be a giant pointless paperweight?

[@eric.c.bullock]

Med bed is an easy fix: just have them have to DRAG the corpse to the medbed to respawn there. There's no cloning facility present, so... Yeah, you can revive there, IF your corpse is brought there to be recovered!

[@eric.c.bullock]

But I like the 'limited quantity' of respawns too

[@RicoZaid_]

57:38 I'd rather CIG spend resources on making the game than trying to maintain a constantly changing documents for players. SC content creators do a way better job than CIG could in keeping up with documentation. It's intelligent for CIG to leverage these free resources. You don't need to look up information, you need friends to help you. That's the point of multiplayer in SC. Even if The text data was in game it would be tremendous to read, so no one to read it anyway. The best thing for new players are 20 minute CURRENT new player videos and friends.

[@yellerbelliedcoward8029]

The ion should be a beam. Both ships should violently shake and/or reduce control while firing to make non-capital size targets difficult to hit. Much like the recent corsair nerf, the laziest option isnt the best. A ship that could be balanced based on power/cooling is instead having controls randomly shoved to another seat. A pilot should have access to all turrets with hotkeying instead of evading being the detriment. The 'devs dont play their games' memes are hard to refute with some choices that are made in the industry.

[@FuriousImp]

Only read the first two sentences and I love it! This!!!!

[@daftdigit]

DPS going up across the board doesn't mean your not losing as much DPS. The corsair is now weaker then then the connie and people would have used the connie anyway over the corsair. 46:44. you have to go by % of what it would have been with the increases and what it is after the nerf. NOT comparing past Gun DPS with current Gun DPS

[@PursauntYapper]

On ship design and the Ion: I think the issue comes from ships are designed from an artwork standpoint before gameplay. From the way they have talked about their process i would be super surprised if they did testing first. For example with the Ion having a grey flying Dorito the same dimensions as the final model, strap a single gun to it and give it the fire rate and damage they expect it to be and then test it in AC first for a few hundred rounds to see if it works, is balanced, is fun and if it needs to be physically bigger or smaller to fit the intended gameplay. They spend thousands of hours designing a ship before even testing if it fits in with the balance

[@cthree87]

Do you really think the design or shape of a ship has anything to do with performance or flight characteristics? Do you think that's real air you're breathing?

[@PursauntYapper]

@@cthree87 it 100% does, it is a huge reason why most of the alien ships are never meta choices for combat. A bunch have a gigantic front facing cross section, all things being equal they have less effective HP as they are physically larger then they actually are (they never have substantially more shields and HP to make up for it over their counterparts). F8C suffers the same fate it is a gigantic pancake and it is why snubs like the fury or Archimedes are so powerful.

[@pakledengineer]

Tow of my favorite SC YTbers. Great Podcast !

[@molboard98]

This whole conversation is ridiculous. They didn’t nerf the Corsair to “balance” it. They nerfed it because there were too many people with Corsairs that were way too satisfied to upgrade it (probably to the Starlancer).

[@andrewboyer7544]

Why would anyone upgrade a corsair to a starlancer? Even "nerfed" it has more firepower for the pilot and is faster and more maneuverable? It's a straight downgrade for a solo player.

[@adrianslater9127]

Whether or not it was intentional the Corsair change made it clear that investing in this game right now through ship purchases was is an idiotic decision that I made It's clearly a bait-and-switch technique to get new money introduced into the game. At this point it would not be a bad decision for the company to make it clear if they are going to have these weapons changes affecting other ships They are still advertising the Corsair as it is

[@aevacado]

Really cool having the conversation swap between Big Picture, and unique cases. Imo, the Corsair shouldn't have been sized up when everything else was. It was already sized appropriately for the current gun size goals.

[@BigLD]

The amount of guns/firepower in the article of Drake Corsair Q&A on CIG's website, it was sold as that! 6 pilot controlled guns by default, can be delegated to co pilot. The co pilot seat has all the functions as the pilot seat, in the q&a, they mentioned that the copilot could take over from the pilot controls on flight, & fight. I think since they have mentioned its a intended change for the corsair but a incomplete feature, I think they planning on delegation to come sooner then later & we might see those guns go back to the pilot with a nerf to size down the pilot controlled guns by one & up turret guns by one all around. It is a expedition ship but its a DRAKE ship after all, it got no armor, all it got is guns & speed - Connies are built more tough with more firepower with missile payload then the Corsair - Connies got more armor then a Corsair even compared to a Taurus, not to mention Andromeda. The Drake Corsair might be a explorer/expedition ship but its NO Anvil Carrack - its meant to explore ppl's Cargo Bays & explore sections of dead space of the *unknown* - When you explore the *unknown* you have no idea what you walking/flying into. Explorer ships especially the Corsair should have incredible firepower to explore the unknown across the crew/pilot. Drake has always made their ships for affordability & piracy favourite, whether or not they mention it in the brochure. If they made the 2 s5s on the Copilot become a 360 degree axis rotation remote turret, that would be a incredible change for the ship for the copilot instead of the limited rotation based off gimballed manned turret it is now. I think the Anvil Carrack deserves some love & buffs but thats a topic for another day. @Evenlease said it well for me, almost word for word. I agree with just about everything he said.

[@JClif]

Also, I want to point out that the 400i was marketed for and supposed to have triple redundancy but they gutted the extra components. Which make no sense. Only time will tell what happens.

[@callsigngrimdoll]

The Ion is a support ship. A sniper not a dog fighter. You're supposed to be escorted by a fighter or two. Its not a solo bounty hunting ship.

[@tafferinthedark]

Does it get a glint when it's aiming at you?

[@RicoZaid_]

51:27 this is how sales works for EVERY successful company. Don't expect honesty.

[@BlakedaBull]

Best way to sell a ship , power creep , fomo, then nerf bought ship

[@RandomiNationTTV]

Rep vs RNG: I think there needs to be both. Having some blueprints or actual components or skins locked behind rep is a must but having an RNG blueprint/skin with RNG mats is a huge achievement too. I remember finally getting my vial of sands mount in wow; it was all RNG but anyone that had one really had to work for it or paid someone handsomely. Corsair guns: I’m kinda ok with the copilot guns being locked forward. That’s your engineer / boarding party. When they’re not doing that other role you’ll have more forward facing fire power. I do think it’ll rotate one day though.

[@arrclyde4325]

I think that the Caterpillar gets a telescope on the Starboard side, not on the Command module. As you can essentially detach the Command module and use it as a loader in the future.

[@FuriousImp]

That'll be so amazing can't wait for that modularity feature

[@Tainted-Soul]

The Idea that EvenLease said about the Ion is a great Idea that way if it hit a fighter the shields would go and may also damage the power plant but not kill it. but shooting at a bigger ship e.g. Hammerhead the "Heavy Armour " wouldn't effect the Ion as much and it drains the shields and damages the shield gens / power plants would give it a job and something to use it for along someone else in an other ship. the Corsair is drake so no armour LOL a tin can with loads of guns when the shields go down it gets shredded . to be able to shop online through the mobi glass wow even if its just be able to find how is selling what and where to go and get it so you reserve it or pay for it and you have to go and pick up the package

[@gregfrostable]

Ai like mech warrior, rpg where u hire people and good at certain things. But through experience they lvl up what they do. Like a sims-ish

[@arrclyde4325]

Yes, the Ion and the Inferno are suppose to go against Capital ships, BUT not solo. They are supoose to be your special tools when you attack a Capital ship with a squadron of other fighters, that draw the attention and keep the Ares fighters safe from other fighters. It was NEVER meant to be used solo against capital ships. Its a one trick pony. Well.... two actually as you can load up to 2 size 5 torpedos onto it.

[@williamlewis1805]

I’m doing a living a ship play through and it is exposing how much more ships need. we need resources that let us fill water bottles, make basic food etc.

[@DaGhostToast]

While I agree that people need to accept that every ship is going to get balanced into something they're not at the moment, I think too many people are brushing off the people who are unhappy about the Corsair. CIG purposefully uses the ships in their current or unbalanced state to sell them and takes way too long to balance anything. The Corsair has been getting sales specifically because of its pilot controlled guns. CIG knew that all along because it was unmatched. It's not like they werent aware that it was intended as a multicrew ship. Nor is it an ancient legacy ship from a decade ago. How long did they leave the hornet with it's overpowered acceleration bug? They always let these problems hang around for way too long while being aware of them, and take advantage of how they boost sales. Dont be surprised if the hornet mk2 gets powercrept or loses a couple guns when its sales dwindle.

[@RicoZaid_]

Exactly right about the hornet. Or something better will come along. Mk 3. Sales is always about deception, no surprise at all.

[@Biggerfoot]

There only nerfing ships for money not balancing, there is blaring obvious when they said that the copilot can shoot the two static weapons they removed so how is that even going to work you can’t even aim the guns it’s ridiculous and was only done so that they could sell this new ships to coming out, they literally buffed the crap out of the last battleship they released the mk2 and then after it was done selling nerfed it right into the ground, people called it a nerf but it’s a scam tactic like me selling you a car you coming to pick up the car and there is a completely different engine in the damn thing

[@phaithless4055]

It feels like CIG is focused on the extreme Warcraft-style player group with slow kills on solo play. If you need a full crew to fly/share expenses, how do you bring passengers on board? With the carrack load of expenses coming fuel, insurance, repair, and spare parts taking up space in the cargo hold, etc. It will be too expensive to get into a costly fight or a long-range mission. With respect to the Corsair, CIG marketed it as a multi-role space camper with a firefly-style feel. Not all of us were pirates; some liked the private cabin and the duct tape-style look explorer going from job to job. Plus, how many bought a NURSA because it fits? I want to like the Zues...it feels cramped...might be the pilot setup. Can't have blade servers or NPCs if they are forcing multicrew play.

[@csdigitaldesign]

It's not always that something is getting nerfed, but how they are doing it. That's why a large number (but probably not all) people were upset about how they nerfed the Corsair.

[@fwdcnorac8574]

You don't "own your ship." You made a pledge. As compensation, they gave you a ship and free insurance. You can trade the ship in for another as much as you like. Disagree with me if you want, but a court of law wouldn't.

[@fwdcnorac8574]

Also, did you not listen to the guest? The Corsair got a dmg buff! It does more dmg with the two guns than the old version with all4 guns. More dps /=/ a f'ing nerf!

[@mayoluck]

​@@fwdcnorac8574settled down young knight.

[@csdigitaldesign]

@fwdcnorac8574 did you not see what my problem WAS with the change? Nothing to do with a nerf. Stop assuming people are mad about it being "nerfed" in terms of damage. It's how they changed it so the copilot has to man the two bottom guns when they already have a remote turret. That's what I'm upset about. Nerfs to damage will happen because of balancing. Aside from them giving control of the fixed weapons back to the pilot (even if nerfed) i don't care what else they do with damage. The copilot already will have copilot things to do (power management etc) and already has a remote turret. I want all parts of the ship able to be manned at once like it was originally designed.

[@csdigitaldesign]

@fwdcnorac8574 also, people are allowed to have opinions and give feedback. They might of said it could change but at the v same time they said it was suppose to be a certain way. They could at least do their best to stay true as they can to the spirit of the ship design. You might try and say we shouldn't be entitled or something and it is their game they are building, but it's also our game they are building too. Without all the backers they would have a game just as much as they wouldn't have a game without the developers or CRs vision. So stop trying to defend them in unnecessary ways it's not like I'm being unreasonable.

[@Xenon676]

Every future video thumbnail. "What Dreams may become "

[@durtyred86]

Space is the wild west. Ofcourse industrial ships should have some kind of weapon. The weapons they do have aren't much but it's better than nothing. I can't imagine why anyone would want them to be toothless all together. Even the couriers of times past had at least a shotgun or rifle with them as they traversed the western plains.

[@FuriousImp]

This!

[@keithent2447]

They can and will nerf everything and never finish anything. Amazing that they can put so much effort into making ships unfun in a game that is primarily about ship experiences.

[@burgerpops7182]

???? sell your ships dude this game is not for you

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

If everything is unfun, NOTHING IS UNFUN 😈

[@keithent2447]

​ ​@@SpaceTomatoToo wait... wut? 😅

[@keithent2447]

If yall think my statement is unfair, please after almost 13 years, show me one part of the game that has been put in a permanent phase based on any demonstrable plan.

[@leoncantwelliii7946]

I understand your sentiment completely. This year broke me. I went into this year high on the copium of last year's citizencon, but that hype died back in April. It's been nothing but dissapointment and frustration since. After years of backing and thousands sunk in to this project I'm finally coming to the realization that I'll never get to see the game I thought I was being sold. CIG never fails to find a way to implement a feature in its worst possible form. It's been a running joke between me and my brother for years, but this year the joke had turned very unfunny for both of us. We've had enough.

[@VideoSage]

The Ion getting nerfed.... Genuinely infuriates me to a point beyond proper words. Not being able to 1 hit an M50- when your ship is so slow, and that thing so fast, is .. just... Urgh.

[@MaticTheProto]

7:38 the caterpillar is supposed to be modular. Where would you put the beam? Aside from the planned position across the ship from the cockpit

[@Olorum001]

about ship sizes i think that we need better medium sized ship. as of right now you only have constellation and the corsair we need more options.

[@BigLD]

citizen con coming with a new ship besides the polaris & zeus, i think its a mirai multi crew ship similar to corsair & connies

[@Olorum001]

evenlease is the best. best reviews ever

[@herpderp6407]

You guys are conflating gun dps, which is a sliding scale, with the loss of the 2 size 5’s. The Corsair is dead.

[@RoboticRaza]

with the caterpillar would be nice for the command module to disconnect like it’s supposed to for the mobile tractor beam

[@SCTimbal]

Fantastic talk!

[@RicoZaid_]

36:57 No. A company does not talk about failures as those failures can be weaponized against them. Transparency is not a good idea for a company.

[@aguspuig6615]

Yep. Above all things CIG is hated because of their transparency, by the very same retards who cry about lack of transparency in other companies

[@MILSPECMOM]

LOL No.

[@williamlewis1805]

The Ion and the Inferno needed to be flipped so that the Ion has a laser Gatling and the Inferno should be a giant ballistic cannon with limited Ammo. Hold to charge the Gatling and once it fires there is not stopping it for the full burst. And the cannon could have a very accurate extremely powerful cannon but is slow firing with limited ammo that is very expensive

[@2334animelover]

Not seeing anything in the comments, But when I see most people talk about player built ships. They dont mean designing and building something completely new, they mean taking a pioneer and building something like a new andromeda inside it that they can sell.

[@matthewfletcher4627]

Solo large ships is going to be like walking around in trousers too large, without a belt. You can do it, but it's significantly more likely to catch you with them around your ankles. I go in with my eyes open, because I like me some room to move

[@adrianslater9127]

@@matthewfletcher4627 that's a good analogy I thought it was a bit late trying to run a world war II submarine by yourself

[@qutatron]

Yaaay! One of my favourite creators.

[@MaticTheProto]

Also speaking of the raft, it is another example of a design so good I wish it showed up in a hollywood movie as the heroes ship

[@babykosh5415]

"we're currently in an alpha" I feel is CIGs go to excuse for communicating to the community poorly. And it is getting kinda old.

[@kevinm3751]

Yea, setting on a gun position and the only thing I can do is set there and wait until the pilot gets on a target and all i am there for is to pull the trigger is NOT engaging game play and if they think it is they should not be developing games! That is the most ignorant thing they have done yet!

[@Lothmire]

I want to see a bounty hunting Corsair with a bigger armory and prisoner storage in the hold. Then it would be easier to differentiate the explorer version

[@MaraudersSC]

The Redeemer nerfs are so bad, I can only shake my head at it. All S4 Weapons and up are getting nerfed. (Velocity) All S2 comps and up are getting nerfed Severly underpowered capacitors. Body HP slashed from 40k to 17k A lot of multicrew ships are severely power starved, while some fighters even have points to spare sometimes, while having very favorable capacitor tunings (30+ laser canon shots per gun on F7 for one). I'm just sitting here wondering, how can anyone come to those conclusions with Source Code level access to the game, when we come to these obvious conclusions with just surface level access like us, the players. It would be one thing if it was a bit of a mixed bag with the balance tunings, that can be scratched up to a WIP, but they have nerfed ALL S2 and up components and even BUFFED S1 Shields, which is significant enough it actually nullified the F7 health nerfs.

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

@@MaraudersSC it'll be interesting to see where the Redeemer sits after all the different balancing has taken place.

[@LucidStrike]

30:57 There's way more to DOASM than whether a bed has regen or not. Even Lease is discounting injury tiers, echoes, medical material costs, ISV, and permadeath. Lots of levers to pull, dials to turn. He keeps saying they haven't talked about things when they actually have, which also goes to show they need to BROADCAST about these things more. Maybe they need a ANOTHER weekly Comm Link that just briefly covers changes and highlights already available information. Like, summarize the week of Dev Tracking. Or fix the damn website search.

[@gyratingwolpertiger6851]

"It wasnt the fastest." The thing could pull damn near 26Gs at release iirc A nerf was inevitable when it was performing as well as it did vs fighters at release.

[@PursauntYapper]

I'm not excited for multicrew gameplay because I don't enjoy loosing and dying. With the current geometry and balance changes multi crew ships are simply coffins, even fully crewed you don't stand a chance at defending yourself against a fighter. Till they work out the flight model and balance any multicrew changes they bring in are dead in the water

[@FuriousImp]

With turret changes and maelstrom picking off fighters will be easy for a Hammerhead for instance. They will need to come at your fully crewed hammerhead with half a dozen fighters and Inferno's just to have a chance.

[@PursauntYapper]

@@FuriousImp as I said unless they change speeds and bullet velocityies and ranges depend on power plant size it's not going to change. It will have to change to force ships into effective gun range, but have more speed available to be able to be a little evasive to make it fun for both sides

[@FuriousImp]

@@PursauntYapper We're literally using the same word... "change".

[@PursauntYapper]

@@FuriousImp yeah we agree with the gunnery stuff but a bunch of changes need to be made to the FM as well. Or they would have to make bullets really slow which would look strange

[@JuanBrolo]

They are slowly killing the space sim part of the space sim....and dumbing down game systems for controller players. Something Chris Roberts absolutely wants because he only plays with a controller. In the end we are basically gonna have star field online. Sucks but every single decision they have made shows they are moving towards that model.

[@davewills6121]

That's an obvious comment, its like saying nothing in space escapes gravity.....because it doesn't. That is the whole point of rebalancing, it brings everything into sync, makes common sense out of chaos. The true players of Star Citizen except and embrace all rebalancing, we're adult enough to work within, adapt and hopefully fully utilize change. Rebalancing is life in Star Citizen, there will be no going back, w are already using the 4.0 codebase, we are well on the path to fully realising a true multi-crew MMO. ''"There are those who said this day would never come. What have they to say now?" Rejoice!

[@paratrooperz1]

i think we are going to be in the 4.0 series for possibly 2 years maybe longer 1.0 is an easter egg to excite players. we need 4 major pillars promised to us to mitigate several redesigns of the game. each of these pillars will fundamentally change the game so drastically on their own, NPC AI crew roles..... when we get this solo players can operate massive ships properly and now larger ships can be more of a threat to smaller NPC ships.... some of us autistic players have a problem with player crews that somehow creates anxiety and most of us are anti social and willing to be punished by player crewed ships. Blades can be achieved faster than NPC crew but most roles cant be done by blades unless they allow a blade do it all. but again the balance of the game will greatly shift when we can tap into more of our ships potential even when our friends are not online. Armor will greatly change a ships mass its hull points and allow the full variety of weapons to be balanced properly where lasers should be able to work more like it counter parts but for shields not armor and allow cannons to be alpha strike and range/sniper and repeaters be those weapons that hit harder in near range and more frequent Resistance this will critically change the game by preventing any ships incapable of outputting a level of alpha strike to do any damage to shields that can out repair the damage or enough alpha strike damage or heat to armor to not be deflected or deplanement. once all 4 features are in then and only then are we crossing that threshold of 1.0.... its not solar systems or cows or fighting fires going to impact the game other than variety and flavor

[@AccidentalFriendlyFire]

My seven year old flies a Cutter and is afraid he's going to suck at engineering. Good to know there are other SC dads out there!

[@Kaileris]

I think my only problem with even's video is when he talks about stock DPS.

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

You mean his comments in this podcast? We made sure to include a note that we were a bit off there. If that's what you're referring to.

[@THEMALBINO]

There is no effing balance, only nerfs and bait and switch!

[@louhodo5761]

Funny you all talk about the Ion, yet the first time they pissed off the community was the Cutlass rework, look up Cutlassgate. Then you had the Sabre nerf, Arrow nerf, 300 price hike. Drake isnt by lore a "kit bash" company, they are a low cost no frills rugged manufacturer. Think Kalishnakov, or MiG. No Drake ship has more firepower than their competitors. Cutlass after rework has the same firepower as the Freelancer and C1 with less shields than the Lancer. The Cutter is a joke when it comes to guns, even amongst starters. Even on their large ships, the Caterpillar lost its nose mounted size 6s, and they were turned into parking sensors, the C2 has more firepower.

[@HALOCRAFT3568]

I literally got the Corsair for the control of the guns because im a solo pilot, and now they took some of the guns.

[@Kiyomoto657]

The marketing team sold you a lie.

[@fwdcnorac8574]

​@Kiyomoto657 so you don't believe it's a pledge? You're still sticking with "I bought a ship?" 😂 And they gave the Corsiar a dmg buff. It now does more dmg with those two guns instead of the old 4. And the Corsair was never meant to be a solo ship.

[@Kiyomoto657]

@@fwdcnorac8574 I don’t own a Corsair. My point is that you people who keep crying pledge are gaslighting. I have never gone to a theater and bought a movie. I have always purchased a ticket. However, your argument would be that I have no right to criticize the films directing because I am only a ticket owner. Stop trying to shame anyone who disagrees with you into silence using legalese on the CIG website.

[@luistigerfox]

@@Kiyomoto657 Actually, that doesn't really help as an argument. Going to a theatre and buying a ticket is still going to see and enjoy a final product. Yes, you don't own the movie, and are there to experience the thing, but it's still a completed item. This is more like paying for a pass to spend a day on set while the movie is in production in order to help fund its eventual release. You're probably going to see takes of several scenes, may even see some scenes in the works that get outright deleted later. Though, by the time the game launches you will indeed own a ship. However, the state of that ship will likely change. They specifically warn you that you shouldn't go in expecting this to be the final product, both on the game and the ship, and that all items are subject to change. This isn't about shaming people who disagree, this is about understanding that you can't point to game stats specifically as "the marketing team sold a lie". That statement is just disingenuous and ignores the part where they are still transparent about things being subject to change during the pledge process.

[@fwdcnorac8574]

@Kiyomoto657 lol. "Muh feelings Trump your facts!"

[@SociallyConfused]

When It comes to large ship killers (Ion, Gladiators, Ares) these should require a wing , if not more, to take out the sub-capital and capital size ships. Soloing a 600i with a single Aries is fun but shouldn't be seen as balanced. The fighter ship verses everything meta we have seems to be ending, and I can not wait for it to be dead.

[@StoneCoolds]

Is not the nerf, is the dumb and forced multi crew they implemented for the Corsair, let's give fix weapons to the copilot while he also manages power, missiles and top turret... That's dumb, forced and boring

[@CallMeTeach2]

@SpaceTomatoToo, i heard you make a comment about the Raft and it's lack of guns, when it has an S3 turret up top, and S1 hardpoints for the pilot, so I'm confused a bit.

[@Captain_Alkami]

Star citizen is in an alpha phase and will continue to change throughout it's creation up to live release and well after. The changes will be less sweeping, as we move forward, but changes nonetheless. Backers are not buying a ship but supporting the development of the game, recieving a ship available to them for testing now, as well as intended for use later upon the live release of the game. Toxic positivity and negativity are both equally misrepresentative of the nuance in both designing and balancing a game in the making. Questions and criticisms should always be asked and answered with this fact in mind.

[@Kiyomoto657]

Since we are just buying pledges, it shouldn’t be a big deal for us to swap out those pesky ships for equal value. I mean we all watch videos like this to discuss changes to the next “opportunity for supporting development of the game”. Yours is an intellectually disingenuous argument. You are attempting to imply any criticism of CIGs decisions are unwarranted because of legal technicalities on the pledge store.

[@Captain_Alkami]

@@Kiyomoto657 Discussion is encouraged. Criticism drives definitive change. You purchase a pledge in support of development and in return gain early testing access to the game and current features. What is implied? Those are facts. And you can trade your ships in. Backers do it all the time.

[@Kiyomoto657]

@@Captain_Alkami I agree with that. I have just seen so many people using the “you didn’t buy a ship” argument to silence criticism of CIG’s changes.

[@fwdcnorac8574]

Correction Tomato. The Andromeda is a military grade missile boat.

[@jakejewkes6688]

Until CIG decides that it’s responsible for majority of the kills so they decide to take half of its missile armaments because that was the vision all along

[@fwdcnorac8574]

@jakejewkes6688 then they take away half the missiles. So what? It's not finalized. I think they could keep the number of missiles and cut the cargo capacity in half for the Andromeda. 40-50 would be more realistic.

[@mayoluck]

​@@fwdcnorac8574no its not, its a pledge to "might be" a military grade missile boat, dont you read the website

[@BigLD]

@@jakejewkes6688 Corsair & Redeemer owners: First time?

[@Tentacl]

Are we pretending not being able to use half of your fixed frontal guns is a nerf? It's not a nerf, it's utter nonsense, other guy will have just a button to push? This is not about nerfs. It's abous CIG having 0 competent game devs. And also making the very few useful ships crap to sell new ones.

[@asog88]

About time Evenlease got on tomato talk!

[@haustierone]

30:10 ++ no..they said that it was planned years ago, then guy in charge went to another team, came back now and realized it. its not because of med-gameplay development afaik

[@DennisSheltonjr]

I don't think over certain size that a ship should be a total solo player ship. I personally think that just like in the real world as things get bigger there becomes a point where it needs a crew, or it needs a couple of people. And granted you can operate it by yourself but you're going to have a lot of shortfalls. You got to get out of the sea you got to go do this you got to go do that, but you can do these things but heaven forbid you have to do them all at the same time. I don't see any reason why a Polaris should only have one person running it. I don't see a reason why anything the size of a carrot or retaliator should have one person running it. You can but you're going to pay for it.

[@keithent2447]

I keep hearing that the health pool is going away. So that means ships blowing up goes away by and large. How does that mesh with maelstrom?

[@PolBlanesCebrian]

Your ship can still blow up if the power plant goes critical because of damage and chance or because of bad maintenance. Physical damage to the ship will break off parts of it, which will make it lose energy in certain parts of the ship (because energy goes through physical connections) and lose access to certain components. You can completely disable a Hammerhead by damaging it's powerplant and batteries, but also by targeting the fuze boxes in the center of the ship or cutting it in half.

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

@@keithent2447 maelstrom is the goal as it allows for ships to take damage based on their actual material rather than one large pool of health. It's meant to add a "breakability" factor to all elements based on shear and tensile stress.

[@ToitleInTime]

I would have done something else to nerf the Corsair.. but when I burned a hornet pilot solo I realized it was gonna happen

[@starshifter1]

in the .2 ptu patch the reclaimer has it's drone bay doors now functional. Or it was for me. no drones yet though

[@FuriousImp]

Nice! With the Reclaimer rework in... was it 3.19? They broke it though. They even changed the big "hull munching" claw into a "vacuum cleaner"... so why would you need the drones if the big claw isn't going to chop up the ship wrecks into smaller pieces for drones to take in?

[@GW2Vids1]

We need a better rock, paper, scissor gameplay with ships. Or in a couple of months after launch, everyone will fly a Polaris. I hope for a Eve like trinity, small fighters to lock down bigger ships, medium fighters to fight light fighters, bigger ships to fight medium ships.

[@fwdcnorac8574]

😂 I can guarantee it will change many, many times. Far too many people think when something new comes into the game it's set in stone. Every ship will change.

[@mayoluck]

​@@fwdcnorac8574must be new

[@Tbernard-s2n]

They should have reduced the wing guns to size two's. That's a balance tweak, not an over reaction.

[@fwdcnorac8574]

The Corsair does way more dps now. How is that a nerf?

[@mayoluck]

​@@fwdcnorac8574he never said nerf, he said balance, settle the fuck down.

[@BigLD]

@@fwdcnorac8574 how does it to more DPS now? Is there something you know that we don't?

[@fwdcnorac8574]

@BigLD I know you didn't watch the video. Go back to the Corsair part of the video and watch it again. The dps of all the guns went up. 7900 dps. The pilot can do more dmg with the two guns now than all 4 in the past.

[@BigLD]

@@fwdcnorac8574 I saw the video after the comment my mistake

[@KenFromchicago]

Once again the real problem with CIG is poor communication.

[@RicoZaid_]

Don't even need to talk about the Aries until armor comes out. Size 7 weapons will have penetration bonuses. These penetration bonuses will I have less effect on smaller ships as Ion will just blow straight through armor. Inferno will have decent penetration and lesser armor blow through with high explosive/incendiary rounds.

[@slevin1136]

Maybe one day a cargo drone to move cargo on larger ships like the cat

[@FuriousImp]

The Caterpillar's command module is supposed to detach from the hull. On the lower deck there is already a tractor beam...

[@aguy446]

They don't want people to hang on to a nerfed ship. They want you to melt it at 250 and rebuy at 300 later

[@darthwayne69]

for me the corsair change is not a nerf but a buff: my copilot (never going solo in the corsair as its meant to be a shop for 4+ crew) can now bring those 2x S5 into target when me as pilot cant reach it anymore because the gimbal feels like a half turret, its very flexibel. and if the target is a fighter he takes the remote turret, easy going with using hotkeys. where is the problem guys? where is the nerf? I can only see a nerf when you solo the corsair and thats a you-problem bc its not a solo ship.

[@BigLD]

i think if they made that manned turret of 2 s5s become a 360 degree rotation axis remote turret, it would be a incredible buff for the co pilot on the corsair, elimination of a entire blind spot of the corsair making fighters unable to exploit the blindspot as easy as it was before, the blindspot gets smaller where they can't go too high or too low & only hang on the cargo bay door or else top or bottom turret can do work. Making the 2 s5s a gimballed turret giving limited rotation feeling restrictive for the copilot - until they bring proper delegation among pilot/copilot as they have discussed before for all ships, its a weird change in a way even with a full crew.

[@latjolajban81]

It's a nerf because it's two guns that the pilot can no longer control. How do you not see it as a nerf? If the pilot can't get on the enemy, then the co pilot with those two guns can't either since they are not on a turret. You're just waiting for the pilot to aim so you can pull the trigger. It's stupid.

[@BigLD]

@@latjolajban81 i agree

[@darthwayne69]

@@latjolajban81 Your comment shows me you didn't try it. I did and it's a buff. The co-guns are more movable than the pilot-ones. It feels like a mix of gimbal and turret mode. Anyway, its not a nerf because I never fly without co-pilot. Learn to play ships as intended or play something else.

[@latjolajban81]

@@darthwayne69 Rofl. So because YOU always fly with a co-pilot it's not a nerf? HAHAHAHAHA!!! And what if your co-pilot is busy doing something else? You're not using those 2 guns then.

[@bakad7424]

I just need the Nursa to fit in my C1.

[@sjoervanderploeg4340]

I'd like to see them re-evaluate small cargo ships, because if you own a 135c like me you can not do any cargo with it in its current state.

[@sjoervanderploeg4340]

And we not only need to be able to sell ships to a terminal, but also to other people if we wanted to?

[@sjoervanderploeg4340]

Most of these issues you are discussing are from the point of view of a sandbox where you can have every ship you want, reality is not going to be like that! 99% of the players are going to buy a starter ship and struggle because all the focus was on big ships? What would be upgrade paths?

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

@@sjoervanderploeg4340 is there a problem with the 135c right now?

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

@@sjoervanderploeg4340 preferably small scale contracts would still make small scale ships useful and usable. Larger ships make for bigger targets and more expensive money sinks to maintain. I agree that small ships need their use cases.

[@sjoervanderploeg4340]

And yes, those canons really needed a buff because when you are pounding a cutlass and it just doesn't go down... there is something wrong with your size seven canon!

[@fwdcnorac8574]

Annual reminder. You're NOT buying a ship. You are NOT buying a ship. You are NOT buying a ship. YOU ARE MAKING A PLEDGE. The ship is their compensation to you for that pledge. You can trade that ship in as much as you like. Everybody keeps saying "I bought this ship". You bought nothing. Read the website. It's clearly written that you are making a pledge.

[@Kiyomoto657]

Am I not allowed to hate that they nerfed my flying pledge?

[@fwdcnorac8574]

​@Kiyomoto657 as long as it's an actual nerf, sure, you get one day. Process your emotions and move on. At any rate, how is a dmg buff now a nerf?

[@Kiyomoto657]

Yours is an intellectually disingenuous argument. You are attempting to imply any criticism of CIGs decisions are unwarranted because of legal technicalities on the pledge store.

[@rurallawwildwest9679]

I am still amazed at SC white knights. I "Pledged" based on expected role of Corsair as a pirate ship. Also, the future seems stupid if fixed guns can't be controlled by the pilot. Name any current day aircraft where fixed guns are controlled by someone else? Missiles, yes, bombs, yes. Fixed guns, none. I anI'll let the white knights finish funding this project.

[@fwdcnorac8574]

@@Kiyomoto657 I didn't say your criticism was unwarranted. I said it's a pledge. You clicked the box saying ou understand. This is called being an adult.

[@SgtHack802]

I am so disappointed with this game. Flying and ship combat is supposed to be to be fun. It is not! Why is there going to be crafting? So silly. Why eating and drinking. Everything is a time sink..

[@JohnDoe-wd8rs]

MM ruined the game, no one wants to play anymore. R.I.P. SC

[@joeyhoser]

1:10:13 I'm against AI crew. I think multi-crew ships should require... multi crew. I say this as a solo player. If you want to play baseball but you don't want to play with other people, then you can't play baseball. I don't feel like I need much of an argument here.

[@ChookyChuck]

your vids are very professional and well produced and you seem like a great person. I usually disagree with because it all ways sounds like you are defending poor CIG choices.

[@LuluGamingDK]

God i heat the word Nurf... Iv been playing MMOs for 30s and any open active game that has updates and new stuff coming out need Balance. Or old stuff will become useless, or new stuff will be OP. Even more so with a game like SC that is all about Crew/Fleet gameplay. Thats what the test are for.. to see if it need to go lower or higher.. and sometime is easy to over to it and see how the number add up.. then SLOWY up/down it if it to low/high. Lowerng or uping the dmager or number of somewthing to slow will not give a good read on date after a big balance.. that way you do BIG jumps 1st... then move it around after.

[@Viktoria_Thaelin]

Corsair nerf is stupid, charge mechanic needs a rework to either let you hold down the trigger and fire when you release not whenever it chooses.

[@gam3rguy174]

Is everyone mad that ship upgrades are gonna mean a lot more now if people are this pressed about gm changes to bad model ships ? Cus like I get the anger but if that’s the case then that’s stupid, cus they just made components a lot more meaningful

[@kwcnasa]

Resume @1:14:00

[@arthurvartanov2573]

What they did with Corsair its not nerf is just totaly change idea of this ship. Nerf can be called lovering guns size by 1 so it will be fare compare to other ships but what they did is just they start removing gun control from pilot. This is a first time i see this happening and this means they can do this now with any ship. I dont trust them anymore just imajine what they can do now for example they can give Polaris pilot shoot torps and everybody start applying their CCUs and then remove this control from pilot any time. So ppl who apply this ccus will be stuck with ship because they build CCU chain to this ship that cant do nothing anymore.

[@CostaTigas]

still waiting on my constellation that is MIA since last update. keep craping in your players that will work for you.

[@callsigngrimdoll]

Did you purchase the constellation through the pledge store or in game. In game ships are never guaranteed to survive new updates. They try but have admitted with apologies that they can't guarantee the system will always save your in game bought ship at this time.

[@CostaTigas]

@@callsigngrimdoll haver other ships purchaced in game and two that appear with pledge but only have pledge one. Better stop playing and wait for the next update. Starting to think that the haters are correct this game will never be done pass alpha. Main focus os cig is getting new ships and more money not finish a resembless of a finish game

[@digitl_ghost]

For me this is a big issue. The ships you buy might have very little resemblance to what you get. I feel they should do away with ship ownership and just give you the same amount of persistent credit. Then allow you to buy anything that you have credit for. No melting only once or any of that. You can recycle and buy ships as often as they want.

[@ESC_907]

When I think Corsair, I think Pirates, which mean Frigates, which means broadsides and boarding actions… CIG failed with the imagery IMHO.