SSJ4 Gogeta vs God Goku

Today we are discussing Gogeta from Dragon Ball GT vs God Goku from the start of Dragon Ball Super! This was a requested video, so comment down below any other topics you'd like to see me do! Or tell me why I'm wrong!

[@Physcowrld]

BRO WE ARE ALL FROM THE SAME GODDAMN ANIME CAN WE HAVE LOVE NOT WAR????

[@shoopydoopy6062]

Nah goku solos everything including himself 😂

[@Lineproof]

Nah, we branch. You got super lovers, then you got GT lovers, then you got both of them haters (Z lovers).

[@JF94-k4o]

Just did research into this yesterday and came up with SSJ4 Gogeta is just under SSB Kaioken Goku... how many times kaioken idk.. lol

[@lordcurze]

😂😂😂

[@xooks3050]

This arguement returns in a different fashion. . . we will never grow as a community

[@hueyfreeman9094]

Db fandom will never grow, it's straight ass

[@tuber420]

The think about GT, is that it's 99% scaling and statements. In versus battles, feats are given priority and GT is featless in the sense of combat outside of combat. It's only good feats are merging Hell and Heaven via the Super 17 Arc, since everything else is scaling like "He's stronger than him whose stronger than him". The feat in the beginning of Super is given infinitely more weight and objectivity over the statements in GT, thereby, God Goku molests.

[@TheSuperGoober]

Litteraly tf is you on lol. GT is 99% scaling and statments? Yeah, no duh. Feats aren't "given priority" over statments. Also, "he's stronger than him who's stronger than him" yeah, that's called powerscaling. Lmao. There's nothing wrong with that

[@tuber420]

@@TheSuperGoober Feats are infinitely more valid than statements as statements are simply just statements. If statements are backed by scaling, they are given validity. Feats have validity on their own.

[@Rennmi]

@@TheSuperGooberSo if a random person from west city sees yamcha saving the city from somebody and says “Hey this guy is stronger than the golden hair warrior” Should we blindly believe this. Or should we go off of him beating 2 people that pikkon struggled with (the same person who no diffed cell) to say he is stronger than ssj goku I’ll tell you who we shouldn’t

[@contempris2383]

Goku absolutely did not compare a hypothetical ssj3 vegito to Beerus. He only did Super Vegito. Not Ss2 nor Ss3.

[@azimuddin1890]

I mean, to be fair, Vegetto is capable of going into those forms so I think it makes sense for Gokou to include those forms. It’s not like if Gokou and Vegeta merged into Vegetto and just use S.S-J.Grade.4 (S.S-J.1), they’d go all out as the ultimate form at that time.

[@terrillwilliams1515]

6:00 yes, you finally told the truth! This does sound ridiculous! As you know Syn Shenron tanks the times 10 Kamehameha Wave which is 10× the True Kamehameha Wave which should be 3×User. This means he is at least 60 times stronger than before since you need to be at least 2× your foes energy to completely negate their energy. Especially since this was applied to barriers instead of your actual skin which means two times is definitely a bare minimum threshold for actual contact. Then he becomes Omega Shenron making him at least 10 times greater which makes him 600 times stronger than Goku. Gogeta is at least twice as strong surpassed making him 1,000× stronger. Even if I was too heavily downplay it and say it's just an energy blast that is x 10 that of the user then 10 Ron is still 20 x Goku for tanking it and when he transforms he is 200 times and Gogeta is 400 times while suppressed. This is still consistent with Fusion in Dragon Ball Z where Goten and Trunks are far weaker than Goku in base form that's when they performed Fusion they become as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku as after they had trained, trunks States how Gotenks is at least as strong as Majin Buu in base form AKA normal Fusion as he described. Later on we know Goten and Trunks are far below base Goku because after the fusion dies down their power is below Piccolo, whose power is below cell Saga level characters, because Majin Buu takes the dominant characters traits when they are the strongest absorbed. Which means one of those or Piccolo is the strongest out of the 3. Which would actually mean that the multiplier for Fusion has even far higher into the thousands if not the tens of thousands simply because of the massive gap between low-tier Buu saga characters like Goku and low-tier cell Saga characters or in this case Android Saga characters because from Piccolo and Below ain't nobody touching anybody from imperfect cell or Android 16 level on up. Then in Dragon Ball super they back to suck even more by having literal base Gogeta contend with Super Saiyan wrath Broly which means metamoran Fusion is literally above Super Saiyan Blue. This will actually mean that the power of Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan blue are not as strong as you think they are and are within the Realms of power increases shown in Dragon Ball Z. Which is in line with the earlier debunks I gave you on interpretations on the power of Super Saiyan God in your attempt to compare the power to rival boosted potara Fusion.

[@duckboy5725]

all that yap just to be wrong

[@abrahamlincoln7907]

Hi Lonk (I’m ur biggest fan)

[@godzillakingofthemonsters5812]

For one, you got the Vegito guide IMMENSELY wrong. It's talking about an amp wise, not who he's stronger than. His base is compared to SS3 being vastly stronger, Super Saiyan on top of that made him the best and said PERHAPS above Super Saiyan 4. There is ZERO indication it's referring to any particular version of anybody. This would also be absurd as an amp and means SS4 is comparable to Super Saiyan x potara fusion. Inverse wise that's more of a Super Saiyan BLUE thing these days, not God. For actual statements, Baby Vegeta is stated stronger than any prior Saiyan or Saiyan power at least 3 times in the show and multiple others in guidebooks. This must include Vegito as comparisons to Goku, Gohan, etc are obsolete when he slapped most of them around already or it would've stated them. Scaling above Vegito is also likely since multiple guides confirm that Fusion Reborn did happen in GT and that Gogeta rivals/surpasses Buu saga Vegito. GT Goku also has Fusion Reborn like feats and often beats enemies stronger than Buu in base alone. Based on Vegito comparison, Gogeta zero difs.

[@kotsiru]

ssj4 gogeta is featless while ssjg goku BoG has universal+ feats

[@DrnoobzHermida]

@kotsirugogeta beated omega shinron

[@mementomori3665]

I would like to chime in and talk a bit about Gogeta's 'tens of times stronger' statement. I knew about this citation long ago, but it never made sense to me given the absurd amount of evidence and implications pointing for all types of Fusion Goku has access to being way more impressive than just this value. That being said, I tried finding an explanation. Be it a inherent limit on the Fusion Dance or even a cultural semantic-linguistic gap that made a difference on the interpretation. In my research, I found this post from user *Rakurai* at Kanzenshuu forums: _"I'm just going to chime into this conversation to clarify some meaning or give my own insight on a specific translation portion._ _I'll try to give my own opinion on the matter as someone who can speak Japanese and has been exposed to it sufficiently. The Japanese term being used is "数十倍," which translated literally means "tens of times." However, I have seen the term been translated to terms that indicate a large number of physical/abstract things, including "dozens," "many," "several," and "decades." Except for the word "dozen," there are corresponding words for these other synonyms. It is a nuance of the Japanese language that context is very important, and the language itself can become very ambiguous sometimes, leaving you with only a sense of how much it can be, not what it actually is. However, in my personal reading experience, I've encountered the term "数十" whenever the topic is trying to evoke a feeling representative of some large number which can be upwards above 100 (e.g. number of casualties in a war or natural disaster), but likely not above 1000._ _Here is where the term came up in the GT Perfect Files II with regards to SS4 Gogeta:_ *_~Scan Image~_* _Note that the specific passage says SS4 Gogeta is "probably tens of times that of a SS4 alone." The "probably" throws a lot more ambiguity into the passage._ _And then there's the official entry from the Toei website:_ *_~Scan Image~_* _This passage says Gogeta's power is "more than tens of times that of a Super Saiyan 4." This passage does not include the word "probably" (thus throwing away that ambiguity) and "alone" (however the context should be clear that it is referencing his power to a sole SS4 user, likely Goku or Vegeta) and adds the word "more." It is slightly different from the Perfect Files, but the implications are much more different._ _So these two passages that describe SS4 Gogeta's power give the feeling that it is "tens of times," but nothing concrete. It is the sense of the large number that ultimately matters._ _Also do note that the same term "数十倍" was said by Vados with regards to Kefla, who is a Potara fusion."_ As user *ankokudaishogun* sums it up, *"context requires "数十倍" to be interpreted not strictly as "tens of times" but more loosely as a generic "a lot of times"".* This would make a lot more sense, as Dragon Ball writers like to either make very ambiguous and open statements or be very direct, never in between. Would also make a ton of sense regarding Kefla, as going from fatigued Base Caulifla to stronger than even more fatigued Super Saiyan God Goku would require a much bigger multiplier than just "adding both up and multiplying it by tens of times". It's possible the context on this statement might be different from the guide, and it would require more literal interpretation, but I genuinely don't think so. Even giving the benefit of the doubt on Kefla statement, adding Kale's and Caulifla's maximum powers (non-fatigued SSJ2) and multiplying it by a hundred should not make them have a multiplier (in comparison to Base Caulifla) bigger than Super Saiyan God. After all, even Base Vegetto in Kai should have a minimum multiplier on the millions using A × B power levels. Going with the idea that "tens of times" actually means just "ooga booga insert very big number here" seems way more consistent across all guides.

[@mementomori3665]

If you are one to use any Guide statements, regardless of how credible or licensed they are, there is this French Guide posted on the Dorothée Magazine that for some reason goes absolutely Z Broly fanboy mode and makes an entire page about him, and then finishes it all off by saying he is *"by a longshot"* the strongest Dragon Ball Z Character and he would beat Super Saiyan 4 Goku and Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta's ass most of the time, if they ever fought. Yeah. Very uh, credible. If you unironically follow this line of reasoning, Beerus is stated by Koyama, Broly's creator, to make Broly look like a pushover ever since the Battle of The Gods movie, which had God Goku making Beerus use 70% of his power and being overall 60% of Beerus' full power according to Toriyama. So narratively, God Goku would beat SSJ4 Gogeta's ass more like than not. Funny. -yes, I know this guide is flawed and has- -more holes than a swiss cheese, they- -literally had SSJ Goku at fifteen million- -power level and thought 100% Freeza- -was the same as 50% Freeza-

[@LeRodz]

You went above and beyond with this. Props for the research (and congrats on the user who can actually speak japanese and gave their opinion)

[@mementomori3665]

@@LeRodz I think it was mostly luck, but thanks nevertheless. This post I showed does indeed seem to hold good validity.

[@SuperKamiGuruu]

Changes absolutely nothing

[@mementomori3665]

​@@SuperKamiGuruu It allows for Gogeta to not be held back by the tens of times statement, but yes, it should not change the result that much. I guess the only reasonable way to say Gogeta is stronger is if you argue GT scales from Toei's anime and movies, which would result in massive updates to his power due to how Toei and Koyama's vision differentiates from Toriyama's.

[@JoesMama-ci3yl]

Gogeta wins, cuz I used a god ki team on legends and got shafted by a UG4 team.

[@terrillwilliams1515]

5:23 the definition of perhaps is uncertainty and they are uncertain if a detail surpasses Super Saiyan 4. So they lack the evidence to actually put Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto or even in his Base form above Super Saiyan 4. They know he surpasses Super Saiyan 3 but they are uncertain if the threshold of Super Saiyan 4 has been met or surpassed by Vegito. This shows how they are holding Super Saiyan 4 in the highest of regards.

[@Baymon]

Hello, nice video bro. I would like to put a comment about this video because there's some topics that I want to talk about. First of all, I do think that Vegito would have done a better job that Goku SSJ God against Beerus. Yes, his statement of "the fusion would not defeat Beerus" is true, but neither Goku SSJ God could defeat him. And we have to take this statement in the context : Goku has been one shotted in his strongest form, the SSJ 3. He thought that he was the strongest human being, the fact that he defeated Majin Buu is enough for him to be confident. Anyway, why I say this ? Because fusion multiplies the power of 2 individuals, and as we saw in the Tournament of Power, in DBS, Kefla in his base form is capable of dealing with Goku SSJ God. Ofc he was depleted, but this doesn't change a lot : Vegito from Bog would have done a better job, the thing is that it wouldn't follow the scenario, which I completely understand. Added to this, when Goku received the SSJ God form, he said "I never thought that I would be able to get to this kind of power." he maybe was talking about the god ki, and not only from his power. Secondly, I don't think that Goku SSJ 4 = Super Vegito from Z, it has never been really stated officially. Goku GT in his base form is as strong as General Rildo, who is in the same range of Majin Buu power (Kid Buu, then SSJ 3 level). The SSJ God form in DBS later became almost useless, the only forms that really served are the SSJ Blue and Ultra Instinct. Thirdly, for Gogeta in his SSJ 4 form, he would be at least as strong as the SSJ Blue, and for many reasons. As we saw in DBS, having god ki doesn't mean anything. In fact, Jiren or even Frieza don't have god ki, yet for Frieza he's almost equal to a SSJ Blue. It means that he would stomp SSJ God, the form that we thought that was insane at Bog time. I mean, I think it's complicated to compare DBS and DBGT, since they're separated universes. Imo only SSJ Blue form would be able to defeat Gogeta SSJ 4. Finally, your video is cool bro. You earned a like and a subscriber :)

[@aymanriki1018]

Dude, Beerus defeated SSBE Vegeta POST MORO ARC with ease. Beerus is just too fucking strong. U6 Saiyans are just strong asf, Cabba matched Vegeta who should be way stronger than SS3 Goku from Buu Arc at this point in time due to god ki training. Base GT Goku is stated to be above Kid Buu, wtf are u talking about he has had 10 years to train and Rildo is actually much stronger than Buu why wouldnt he be above Super Vegito in SS4? He's literally universal in lower SS forms via feats.

[@SuperKamiGuruu]

Lmao this is what would happen if they said fuck the god ritual and put them earrings on😂 kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpXbpYGOqd9njNEsi=bA6RTaHWP5x85jVx

[@tuber420]

Beerus literally beats up a Evolved blue Vegeta in the Granolah Arc hyper casually, I think he was right when he said a BOG era Vegito wouldn't have done shit

[@SuperKamiGuruu]

Nope. Him saying fusion won't work by default made ssjg the most necessary option

[@terrillwilliams1515]

3:16 Negative energy is also shown putting pictures into the planet and showing actual explosions. Also we see the explosions of galaxies as well. Which means this is energy being emitted onto the celestial bodies to destroy them all.

[@SuperKamiGuruu]

They still systematically spoil first then blow up

[@jaksahn3370]

God goku beats ss4 gogeta. It's not even close. Yes gogeta is what we thought god power was at the time. But ssg Goku is god power

[@ThatGuy-a48]

The hell does even "god power" mean in this context, it's dragon ball where weaklings can flick planets

[@terrillwilliams1515]

Piccolo beats God power smfh.

[@LavaCreeperPeople]

W

[@itsreihart9865]

Buuhan has better feats than SSG, BoGs Goku doesn’t even scale above some Z characters.

[@simeon8814]

Actually the guide Just stated that if Goku went ssj4 during that saga, he would have pulled up a Better fight than Vegito did against Buuhan, also, the guide says "can't Say for sure if it's stronger than a super Saiyan 4" and also even if we Say It referred to GT Goku, It was end of the Baby saga Goku, Goku later on got stronger and stronger, also if we go off feats, base Baby saga Goku oneshotted a realm that is a higher dimension than the Kaioshin realm and macrocosm, which is already a Better feat than God Goku achieved during BOG

[@terrillwilliams1515]

2:31 attack potency is the amount of energy possessed in one attack. Gogeta is canceling out the attack but putting his positive energy into the negative energy which means yes it is attack potency because the negative energy and the positive energy are two sides of the same coin.

[@Kronosthebreaker]

5:32 that wasn't implying that Buu Saga Super Vegito was stronger than SS4 Goku and Vegeta, it was implying that the multiplier in power might be greater than Super Saiyan 4, so if they used the potara earrings in the shadow dragons saga it would have a bigger boost than Super Saiyan 4.

[@Munchycrunch456]

It was the page is talking about the history of dragon ball and refers to characters by the form they are in.

[@dextersbeard3472]

They really stopped trying make things make sense in super. You just have to enjoy it for what it is and accept they went insane with the power upgrades.

[@terrillwilliams1515]

2:58 time frame is not relevant here because you could not prove how fast the negative energy would take to destroy the whole universe. From what we saw it expanded out pretty quickly and has destroyed everything without even detonating. What makes it even more impressive is that he's able to refuel the entire Earth with the energy so casually.

[@Top_E_Official]

And the funny thing is Omega actually did damage to the universe while God Goku didn't even destroy 1 planet.

[@TheLastGhostXN]

​@@Top_E_Official yeah, why would he?

[@Top_E_Official]

@TheLastGhostXN Old Kai was like the next punch would destroy the universe, and not even the moon was fazed.

[@TheLastGhostXN]

@@Top_E_Official so by you're logic goku can't destroy a planet because we haven't seen it?

[@Top_E_Official]

@@TheLastGhostXN I am just saying that the shockwaves barely even did anything.

[@Yousif_saeed]

I like your enthusiasm in making Goku Red stronger than Gogeta, who broke the logic and basic rule of 30 minutes of fusion and made it less than ten minutes due to his strength (but you cite events from the Dragon Ball movie for that) meaning that Beerus used 70% of his power in reality, which makes... Goku's instinct is stronger than Beerus) This is the logic (in terms of destroying the universe, Goku collided with Beerus while Goku was at the peak of his energy and power. But destroying the universe was unspecified in the manga, how many punches it would take and this also takes time like Shenron and not being afraid of The Kyōshin does not indicate the size of the collision.) On the other hand, Shenron almost destroyed the universe without draining any energy as he laughed and then... the Kyōshin fled. The old man told him that in your opinion, destruction was inevitable, and with a little thought, if he wanted to destroy the universe right away and put in the effort, would he have waited for Kyōshin? I told you that the fusion multiplier has many bugs, like the Gogeta vs. Broly fusion. We were told that it doubles the strength and also the fusion of Kefla, in the words of Vados, said that it doubles dozens of times (closer to potara dozens of times than fusion 😂) (our advice is not to rely on fusion multipliers, because it is wrong

[@SuperKamiGuruu]

Tadayoshi literally says a being that surpasses everything

[@DomiEE]

everyone is getting flicked by beerus out here

[@cantstopbrock]

A ki attack having enough energy to destroy the Dragon Ball Universe is a ki attack that has enough power to destroy the Dragon Ball Universe; timeframe wouldn’t matter as the attack isn’t some character resting and replenishing their energy. If we use the overtime logic, a character destroying a city immediately would be more impressive than what Yi was doing. In terms of raw feats, SSJG Anime Goku should really be closer to a SD Arc SS4 Goku/Vegeta/Super Yi than Gogeta. Of course if this were Manga or Movie Goku, this wouldn’t even be a fair comp. As far as in-universe scaling, the GT Guide you alluded to compares “Merging with Vegeta” to “Super Saiyan 4” as power boosts; which is also why it doesn’t talk about Vegetto in past tense. Even if you intentionally misinterpret it to mean Vegetto vs GT Goku, it’d only apply to Baby Arc Goku (as that’s when it was made) who‘s overwhelmingly weaker than he is later in GT. Though in my opinion, Goku reaches Super Vegetto’s level in Base when fighting Rildo (as Rilldo should be > all Boo’s; including Enraged Boohan or Filler Pure Boo if you’re one of those who believe he’s the strongest). By the time he reaches Earth, his Base > SS Gohan > Base Gohan ~ SSJ Goten > Base Goten > Teen Baby > M-2 Rildo. So right there’s a Base Goku who you can argue outscales SSJG Goku. You could even just argue he does so earlier as Vegetto & Gogeta are shown to outclass the God Forms later on in DBS.

[@justsomeshinychewtlewitham6097]

Tens of times is like saying a lot in japanese , in reality Gogeta is way more powerful (it wouldn't even make sense with the point of fusion being to introduce something stronger than a Super Saiyan by the point of the Buu saga) and is consistently portreyed as superior to SS2 in base , Gogeta if something was implied to be a special stronger fusion this time

[@terrillwilliams1515]

5:38 after this is discussing the Transformations Goku has achieved and the transformations most notable utilizations in a fight. In this case the most notable height for Super Saiyan 2 and 3 is against Cell and Majin Buu.

[@terrillwilliams1515]

4:31 this is false because The Narrative of this Saga is to introduce the power of God and Goku with the first failed ritual was able to surpass Super Saiyan blue Vegito as a Super Saiyan and complimenting how incredible the pout is it only worrying that he doesn't feel like a god but instead he just simply got magnitude stronger. Then as a Super Saiyan God even gets another multiplier step on top of a failed ritual increase and a successful Rachel increase which included one more person then all of that energy that has been put into Goku literally becomes God energy which of course no matter what level of power would feel like a whole new world. So this scan here doesn't inherently mean his power level but simplely the state of being that he is in.

[@cheeseracs4477]

Well I don't know if you remember but i was actually the one to suggest this, and I'll say the video came in a shock to me cause i thought ssj4 gogeta had a good chance at winning. However I think it become more clear to me when you made that super vegito comparsion. I didn't know ssj4 gogeta was only a couple dozens of times stronger than super vegito. Anyways cool video i enjoyed it and learned something new.

[@sabichaokujo3307]

ssj4 gogeta isnt only dozens of times stronger what. goku at the start of gt is already a different league of power compared to buu and super vegito. super saiyan 4 alone is thousands of times stronger. people highly downplay the multiplier of ssj4 and the level of gt gokus power. ssj4s multiplier itself is broken and way bigger than any amp the portara gave vegito. not to mention Gt gokus broken scaling where he goes from losing to people in ssj4, and then killing or fighting them equally in BASE. gt goku in base performs super goku level feats AND has at the very least fusion reborn and cooler movie feats since they have knowledge of both the fusion and cooler was in hell. this video massively discredits Gt goku. while yes, god was meant to be like the true evolution and surpassing of previous power, but gt goku literally had a taoist and spiritual awakening. his hacks are way better than normal goku and only Heroes variants can compete, and he had the change state by the end of the series which is literally the exact same as Gojos limitless infinity. attacks cant even reach him and thats confirmed. Gt goku is god himself while super goku is being trained by them. big difference.

[@cheeseracs4477]

@@sabichaokujo3307 wait wait wait hold up I'm very confused man slow down. first your telling me people highly downplay ssj4 multiplier then go on to not even mention what you think ssj4's multiplier is but just talk about gt Goku's power. We have no idea what the rival boost gave vegito and we have no idea what ssj4 or god gives gt goku or super goku. we can't just assume that gt goku has a bigger multiplier than the rival boost vegito gets without any real evidence. Also if i remember correctly goku hasn't dealt with anyone that he loses to in ssj4 and then just kills them in base. You didn't even mention any universe busting feats gt goku could possibly have but god goku in battle of gods proceeds to shake the universe in such a way that even the people over at the kais realm can feel it. Plus that was just a couple of punches man imagine what he could do with a full power kamehameha or dragon fist which are devasting hard hitting attacks. Then your telling me that gt goku surpasses that and anything else super Goku can do beyond that with no actual feats?

[@sabichaokujo3307]

@@cheeseracs4477 theres a scene where gt base goku one taps a dimension with a kamehameha, he killed super 17 in base while being tired after 17 absorbed and absolute demonic amount of power from gt goku in ssj4, ad well as omega being much too strong for a normal ssj4 to handle. ssj4s multiplier has to at least be x1k as super oozaru is at least x500 if not greater which a full power ssj4 can destroy easily, and most character in gt are simply leagues ahead of anything in gt. even rildo is stronger than buu

[@williamjones9707]

@@cheeseracs4477 Gt goku by the last arc could beat god goku alone.

[@OldFolkz]

The guy in this video did massive downplay. Please do not buy this bs

[@terrillwilliams1515]

3:06 FALSE, he is suggesting to escape before the actual destruction happens. Not during it. You are lying on what happens in the series the people who didn't actually watch the series for paid close attention to get away with saying lies like this.

[@Munchycrunch456]

He’s saying what you just said your just misinterpreting him

[@terrillwilliams1515]

5:20 NOT the perfect files. So stop lying once again. This is the second time you've misrepresented information in attempt to lie to your audience.

[@terrillwilliams1515]

3:16 the energy in the dragon balls became negative energy in that manifested into the evil dragons and they use that very energy to attack others.

[@devourlordasmodeus]

I always assumed fusion was A+B×10 not A×B. A×B is ubsurd

[@1337wafflezz]

Until you realize (a+b) x 10 makes no damn sense. With Buuhan, ssj3 goku was getting his ass CLAPPED. Vegeta obviously couldn’t hold a candle either. ssj3 multiplier is 400x by official sources(honestly imho lowballing ssj2 2x multiplier which by feats alone should be much higher) NOW. Assuming Base goku and vegeta are roughly equal in strength? that means vegito would only be a 20x(let’s assume 40x from rival boost) multiplier. But that makes no damn sense. Because base vegito was slapping Buuhan silly, the same buuhan that was shreking a 400x goku and 100x(minimum) vegeta. So why or how is ssj3 goku who is supposedly 10x as strong as base vegito getting murked? Stupid retcon.

[@devourlordasmodeus]

@1337wafflezz hey, uh, maybe that's because the multplier is nonsense and it is just an arbitrary power jump my guy?

[@1337wafflezz]

The math can be whatever BS it wants but logically it has to make sense or the narrative shuts down. Vegito in the Buu saga is one of those times. Vegito by design HAS to be massively stronger than just simply goku going SSJ3 because of how well he performed against Buuhan. If you want to argue ssj being way less powerful than 400x or something sure go ahead but that has a long line of being established and like I said with (a+b) x10 being true? that diminishes the impact of super saiyan. Ssj3 would have to be laughably pathetic to perform as poorly as it did if vegito is only 40x stronger than goku. Personally narratively I don’t like that route one bit. Fusion is supposed to be absurd, broken and laughably overpowered.

[@devourlordasmodeus]

@1337wafflezz I literally don't think there is any math though that is my point

[@1337wafflezz]

@ Dude. The math is arbitrary but the problem being that the math for super saiyan and other forms is already well established. Goku on Namek used Kaioken x20 against Frieza and it still wasn’t enough. He had to go SSJ1 which is stated to be a 50x canonically in multiple places. The problem is not the math it’s the narrative and continuity. You’re basing fusion on something that already has established events. the multipliers don’t matter the math doesn’t matter…but you know what DOES matter? If A>B when B is already established to destroy A from earlier canon events. Then you have a contradiction. (a+b) x 10 is not just a math thing. It’s a true contradiction and logical error. It cannot exist based on prior events.

[@terrillwilliams1515]

3:12 Scans that it is not Ki? Negative energies just portrayed as the opposite of the positive energy in their world. This is consistent with media across different franchises where the negative energy is just something wielded by an evil entity in the show. Naga from Bakugan Battle Brawlers is a great example.

[@oltranaheyan3110]

SSJG Is Just Far More Powerful being stronger then anything we've seen in Gt but its non cannon anyways ssj4 looks cool though thats i can give it

[@xender8012]

It would be much closer than god goku vs beerus. Gogeta can last pretty long against god goku and could make him actually try.

[@Verifles]

😂 Wow ig Cabba really can back up beating Gogeta I never expected this. If ssg wins while Cabba is stronger than ssg. No wonder gogeta fans are struggling to back him up. This is generational.

[@1337wafflezz]

Dude without even wanking GT, and taking every statement + feat with a grain of salt? base gt Goku alone by the end of the series at Shenron arc is quadrillions+(lowballing) times stronger than kid buu/pre battle of gods ssj3 goku. NOW stack an ultra full powered ssj4 transformation on top of that which once again…lowballing is a billion+ multiplier. FINALLY, then stack on it a fusion multiplier. Compare that to Super where base Vegeta(aka base Cabba “allegedly”)who is much stronger than BoG goku by this point?….struggles to lift 10,000 tons. tldr; base GT goku can sneeze away Cabba much less his most powerful version

[@undoiing1549]

And ppl are saying this fodder oneshots cabba

[@LavaCreeperPeople]

God goku one shots

[@KingF-k6z]

Not one shot

[@KingF-k6z]

But god Goku still win

[@SonicElErizo2391]

I'd just say Desing Gogeta ssj4 >>>>>>>Goku ssjg Power Goku ssjg>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gogeta ssj4

[@1337wafflezz]

This video is ignoring so many things it’s LAUGHABLE. 1. you’re not accounting for the OBSCENE differences in strength between pre-battle of gods goku base vs END OF GT goku base 2. You’re mistranslating the statement of Vegito. the guide is stating the actual transformation multipliers are equivalent maybe higher. So a hypothetical vegito fusion power multiplier = ssj4 multiplier which makes sense. 3. You’re ignoring your own continuity. Super has a lot of contradicting statements where Potara is retconned to only be (a+b) x 10. Imho this makes no sense to me but essentially puts gogeta and vegito transformation roughly equivalent to each other. This is a Super statement and those never get questioned by the way.

[@omnijonn277]

GT Gohan Base vs SH SS1 Gohan

[@SuperKamiGuruu]

Gt base gohan dies quick

[@ashuraomega1000]

The only way any character in GT scales anywhere near Goku in BOG is if you take their surface level feats and statements to the most hyperliteral meanings possible but even that doesn't matter because Goku in god form was going to casually destroy the entirety of universe 7 which is a multiversal realm that holds multiple universe sized constructs so it scales to 6D. Base Super Goku one shots the entirety of GT

[@DrnoobzHermida]

@ashuraomega100 nah not goku 100 year timeskip

[@bradfordcannoniv9136]

I think ssj4 ( in gt ) is vegito ssj so 20 vegitos in ssj gogeta in base and a goku who was as strong as a beerus holding back but in general it would be ssj4 gogeta be a large mile

[@excalibur981]

How is this a debate ss4 goku scales above majuub who is stronger than ubb who could give goku enough energy to go ultra instinct

[@supesisfodder7427]

No moron different timelines Fodder majuub who couldn’t beat baby Yet ssj god BoG arc goku > all of gt

[@DrnoobzHermida]

@@supesisfodder7427nah not Goku 100 years timeskip

[@leefpv1420]

GT Goku trained for ten years before the end of z, then trained for 5 years with the reincarnation of kid buu, that's before GT even starts.. super Goku trains for 5 years(because it's Goku and Goku will train) but we don't know how intense the training will be since it's not even looked at, and definitely not with the reincarnation of kud buu.. so gt goku has 15 years of training at the start of GT, super Goku has 5 at the start of super.. then all the gt and super stuff happens, super has shown ssj god to not be that relevant against people who dont have god ki throughout the whole of super, whereas GT shows that ssj4 is the pinnacle of strength in GT.. GT ssj4 Goku alone beats ssj god Goku from super, no need for ssj 4 gogeta

[@rabbitcorp.103]

How is this even a question 😂😂😂 ss4 gogeta one finger ends him no diff dudeeee tf 😂😂😂😂

[@MobyDrip]

???????

[@lordcurze]

did this guy just say ssj4 gogeta was only a few dozen times stronger than super vegito who gt goku is supposed to far outscale in base 😂

[@ImCelest]

Yeah Lonk is a clown and can’t scale at all.

[@declanedwards985]

Alright…Im getting tired of this. GT SS4 Goku and Vegeta, in the shadow Dragon saga, is much Stronger Then Z super Vegito but Ridiculous levels. The scan was talking about the the comparison in power Goku has felt yes, and Potara being a Perhaps stronger then super Saiyan 4, but the scan never stated WAS Potara outright superior to Super Saiyan 4. Meaning, Super Saiyan 4 as a form is being compared to Vegito in terms power, but GT Goku and Vegeta have long surpassed Z Vegito as a whole, including a Hypothetical Z SS3 Vegito and including a Battle of Gods Hypothetical SS3 Vegito. In fact, it was pretty down right stated arcs earlier that Baby Vegeta 1 had achieved the strongest Saiyan power and Goku agreed with it… and he experienced Super Vegito. And we are talking a SS4 Goku and Vegeta that have surpassed baby arc SS4 Goku. Also ss4 Gogeta’s fusion was stated 10 to dozens times stronger could mean at most a 120x stronger then SS4 Goku and Vegeta together. And Gogeta in base could fodder Z Super vegito, to say otherwise is denial, now imagine a Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta? That’s two individuals that surpassed Super vegito put together and then some, and bare in mind, Gogeta was holding back against omega. And also This ten of dozens of time multipler was also labelled to Potara in super by Vados, a angel who’s even a more reliable source then elder Kai. Fusion multiplier were all indicated to be consistent in both. The only reason Potara could be seen as stronger is because the individuals do not need to match power levels to perform it.. so Buu saga Vegito could’ve been stronger then a hypothetical Buu saga Gogeta for this reason. And to say SS4 Gogeta is only 95x stronger then Super Vegito? That’s true at all.. he’s is so much stronger then that, and to say otherwise is just Vegito bias.

[@purplesky4157]

Ssj god goku still slams

[@declanedwards985]

@ didn’t ask

[@DrnoobzHermida]

@@purplesky4157nope

[@shewannadielit]

Ppl need to stop overhyping GT is complete ass and so is the power scaling compared to super SSG Goku slams GT end of discussion

[@rrose9161]

Let's put it this way the universeal destruction feat by buuhan in dragon ball z only effects the mortal world the rest of the macrocosm would have remained mostly intact wereas in dragon ball gt and the dbz battle of god's movie/dragon ball super the entirety of universe7/ the entire macrocosm would have been destroyed ( bdz buu feat is not macrocosm scaled )

[@nixonandrew3834]

It was stated that gt Gohan never stopped training but at full force couldn't keep up with base gt goku. Gohan in super that was inactive but after training few hours with piccolo was able to keep up with ssb kiaoken? Which is weird. So ill assume that gt Gohan is much stronger than super Gohan if we applied the same logic. Guess dispo can easily beat gt gogeta since he was giving ssg goku issues. Nah gt gogeta stronger than ssg. Ssb goku vs golden freezer clash fist which was much more powerful and the universe was not in danger. A new form always gets some unnecessary hype.

[@trentbell8276]

Your logic doesn't work. 1) Your logic relies on GT Gohan being the same exact character as DBS Gohan, but GT Gohan ≠ DBS Gohan. GT and DBS are separate realities, so their versions of characters are separate entities altogether, even with their similarities. 2) In addition to/spite of point 1, it doesn't matter how long Gohan trained, only the results of said training. By your logic, Future Gohan should've creamed the androids based on what present Gohan did with one year in the time chamber since he trained for 14. GT Gohan should've floored ssj4 Goku since he had more potential and kept training. 3) A much stronger Goku and Frieza not causing multiversal damage is because they have ki control. The earth should've been debris in DB, let alone DBZ/S/GT.

[@nixonandrew3834]

@trentbell8276 time chamber training is nothing compared to outside training. Furthermore, Gohan can't sense the android and was probably hiding more than training because the android could easily pop up on him. Gohan probably struggle to go ssj because no one was there to help him so that argument was dead..Gt and Dbs Gohan are both using regular ki so yes you can compare them. Dbs don't even make sense compared to z and gt. Gohan in B.O.G had his ultimate form but lost it and only had ssj by the time freezer show up is stupid.Regular ki can easily compete with God ki, if despo,freezer, hit, jiren and universe 6 saiyans can well gt characters surely can. Freezer trained tagoma for 4months and his power level was crazy..Imagine dbs goku was able to go get gt characters and get them ready in 48hrs u7 would wash everyone. To think that ssg B.O.G is stronger than any version of gt goku and gogeta is definitely stupid.

[@trentbell8276]

@@nixonandrew3834 Just because they use regular ki doesn't mean they're comparable. GT is neither canon nor does it logically tie into/follow DBS chronologically, so it's not going to be written the same. That's all the more reason for their gains to look different, as well. That's why DBS Gohan got the Beast form and GT Gohan didn't, even though he logically should have been able to by following DBS' logic. That fact that Future Gohan wasn't able to get gains because of the environment he was in and the training he actually got strengthens my argument, not weakens it. It further proves that it's irrelevant how long Gohan trained, just results. They didn't go through the same training, so they didn't get the same results. That's why you still have to use how strong GT Gohan *actually* got, not how strong he *might* have gotten based on what's honestly a different character. Characters like Frieza, Dyspo, and Jiren are able to keep up with divine ki because they're actually strong enough with their regular ki. Even though they theoretically could, GT characters aren't strong enough to make up the gap even in BOG. Can't deny their team would have been better off if they did get some of the strongest GT characters to join instead of Tien, Krillin, and Roshi.

[@nixonandrew3834]

@trentbell8276 it's quality training vs quantity. Dbs 17 was able to keep up with ssb goku. Pretty sure the gt version can do the same. Both had the same lifestyle. Lol! Dbs is stupid if you really think about it. Gohan in RF could not ascend to his ultimate form but after training with piccolo for few hrs he was able to catch up to ssb goku that went through hell but gt characters can't? So you are saying that ultimate Gohan is stronger than gt gogeta 😂😂😂

[@trentbell8276]

@@nixonandrew3834 Yes, GT Android 17 and Gohan hypothetically could get/could have gotten much stronger results than their DBS counterparts, but they didn't. Yes, DBS Gohan does clown on GT Gogeta. And yes, DBS' scaling is stupid and awful.

[@gabrielchastain6091]

Alot of people call into question the validity of statements from the perfect files as they sometimes contradict logic in the show I don't own the perfect files but are you absolutely sure it's talking about Goku's past rather than the forms and even if so Are you sure it specifically means Buu vegito because the thing is a fusion will always be stronger than a transformation if it is occuring with their current versions because the warrior formed is stronger than both warriors separately and some using different statements or guides states warrior + warrior then x10-100x So while vegito super sayain Buu saga is shown it could still be talking about a possible gt vegito aswell as they did not have a vegito in gt to use and the guide book is just using stuff from In show to use atleast on this panel If it is referring to vegito you could easily say a gt vegito If it is referring to potara you could easily say of course the fusion as a whole would make a stronger warrior them a super sayain 4 on his or her own Also Toei is statement would apply to that current version of lore as gt is seperate to super There are ways to have gt be universal from the beginning such as scaling from buuhan Using the suguroku space as there are ways to argue against the size argument of the suguroku space such as the mention of the river sanzu (in Japanese) or the death gods stating they would wander forever between dimensions

[@ragnarok7452]

Well it isn't even from Perfect Files but Hero's Legacy guide.

[@gabrielchastain6091]

@@ragnarok7452 I'm pretty sure it's from the perfect files are you sure about that

[@ragnarok7452]

@@gabrielchastain6091 yes

[@seawarrior954]

It comes from the guide for the GT movie with Goku Jr. In it, it goes over a general history of Dragon Ball, and consistently calls characters by their form names, calling SSJ2 Gohan simply SSJ2. So, when it reaches the section about Vegetto, it's obviously talking about Buu Saga Vegetto, as it is a history of the series, and when it states "perhaps even stronger than SSJ4!", it would be referring to the SSJ4 Goku that fought Baby. Lonk's Takes has a video on Vegetto vs SSJ4 Goku, and he goes over it in that kzbin.info/www/bejne/pqqYnGB9ipt_gM0

[@Orangutantoepics]

Base cabba beats him then ig

[@RahulGupta-cn2hh]

I would like to request one thing from all the dragon ball community! That please stop saying that goku absorbrd god ki in his base! It was just an one time thing, which did not make any sense afterward. It complicates everything without any real benefit!🙏

[@williamjones9707]

Base gt goku is stronger than ss3 buu saga then he gets much stronger through out gt. Shawdow dragon arc goku alone could beat god goku

[@jaksahn3370]

Stop

[@musi_yt2]

1st half 💯🔥🔥🔥 2nd half 🧢🧢🧢

[@vegitobluekkx2069]

Then ssj3 goku is like thousends of times weaker than ssj vegito

[@vegitobluekkx2069]

Becouse if you see the video ssj4 goku and vegeta are stated to be as strong as ssj vegito from buu saga

[@tyrannotherium7873]

I agree. I also think that possibly even baby saga ssj4 goku would beat ssj god goku

[@thiagocavendish2928]

Gogeta ssj 3 vs Goku ssj god

[@Somthingliminal]

It’s gogeta

[@tyrannotherium7873]

Also gogeta and vegito are equal didn’t you read the article they came out they are both the ultimate troll cards, so it doesn’t really matter who would be who and technically speaking they are the same character just different fusion Patara fusion and the dance equal 🟰 so if they fused into vegito from gt it wouldn’t make much of a difference. It would still be a powerful fusion, but it would be equal to gogeta ssj4

[@Aryan_Aran]

Na bro that Ssj4 Gogeta being dozens of times stronger than Vegito doesn't make sense, I'll still go with Ssj4 Gogeta is stronger than God Goku.

[@nixonandrew3834]

Lol! He is actually saying that dyspo that was giving ssg goku problems would beat gogeta or Gohan that was keeping up with ssb kiaoken could also stump gogeta 🤦🏾 If gt Gohan that never stopped training and at best could not mess with base gt goku means that gt universe might be low-key stronger.

[@sabichaokujo3307]

you ignored so many of gt gokus feats. he one taps dimensions in base form, has inaccessible speed, can use x100 attacks, has the change state, grows several of dozens of times in legit seconds with Db Heroes like growth, and also, db guides CANNOT BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. they contradict and rewrite everything constantly. using actual scaling feats, super saiyan 4 is way crazier than anything super vegito could do. heres an example, super 17 was dozens times stronger than ssj4 only because he absorbed so much ki and then a x10 kamehameha to boot. who was then killed by a base form goku. i think people really dont pay attention to the fact that in Gt, theyre wanking gokus Wukong aspect to the max. especially his adaptation ability, which makes hacks useless after he sees them only once. using your acid logic in the video, super goku is only trying to grasp at straws of godhood, meaning Gt Goku is God himself in every sense of the word. main reason i hate super v gt conversations is the fact that everyone simply ignores gt feats and dont even realize MANY things were taken from gt and used in super.

[@lonkstakes]

Why can't DB guides be taken seriously? Thats really the only statement I care about adressing here. Everything else either isn't relevant or indirectly adressed in the video.

[@sabichaokujo3307]

@@lonkstakes they notorious for having contradictory statements and being generally unreliable. in way, even power levels and such have a multiverse because each guide or daizenchu or whatever its called will say something different or completely say the opposite. theyre good for reference points but most db creators dont use them as law or fact because of the before mentioned reasons

[@lonkstakes]

@@sabichaokujo3307 The daizenshu are insanely internally consistent and toriyama even concedes to them knowing more about dragonball than he does. I've literally never seen a guidebook statement from an official guide that contradicts the main series.

[@sabichaokujo3307]

@@lonkstakes went back and turns out you’re right, the only actual inconsistency is with fusion descriptions and ssj2 gohan, but besides that most of it was from translation error.

[@sabichaokujo3307]

@@lonkstakes forgot that the daizenshuu also says that piccolo threw the fight with supreme kai on purpose because of his status after originally saying he was simply weaker. thats an annoying one. also, the fact you said the daizenshuu apparently knows more than toriyama is both true but dumb. they seem to know “more” because they take things way more serious than toriyama planned or wrote for. it’s technical head canon. and to explain the gohan in better detail, they stated his faught dabura in ssj while a different daizenshuu states the opposite. they contradict dont they?

[@michaeljosiahwarren3350]

GOGETA ssg goku might be able to beat ss4 even the ss4 is a stonger form due to god goku’s ki not being sensible but GOGETA it’s wraps

[@TheSuperGoober]

Base GT Goku is enough

[@X02Overdose]

Hell no

[@YoboiChrisYURR]

you trippin

[@VonKey.]

_Oh my god, this is hands down the worst GT scaling I've ever seen. It's a very gross misunderstanding of GT scaling._

[@purplesky4157]

Ssj god goku slams

[@tyrannotherium7873]

this is not even a contest why would even bother ssj4 goku alone would beat ssj god goku from bog once again, people love to downplay on GT characters

[@SINdaBlock411]

SSG Goku was losing to BASE KEFLA ... and we all know Vegetto and Gogeta would MAUL Kefla ...

[@theminorityhunter123]

Clearly, it seems you do not know what a multiplier does with a fusion rather than someone having a form.

[@SINdaBlock411]

@@theminorityhunter123 bro, stfu, ssj4 gogeta is way beyond base vegetto who's way beyond base kefla who humiliated ssg goku, ssg goku loses, we've seen it happen, accept it

[@RahulGupta-cn2hh]

Even without watching the video, i can say this with absolute confidence that ssj4 gogeta godstomp ssj god goku! Considering how god ki & form both has lost its essence in overall story! With proper scaling ssj4 gogeta can even rival mui goku from t.o.p!

[@supesisfodder7427]

No BoG arc god goku > all of gt

[@RahulGupta-cn2hh]

@@supesisfodder7427 If bog arc goku is greater than all of gt then how come his own teammates are catching upto him without god ki!

[@supesisfodder7427]

@@RahulGupta-cn2hh did you just ask why super characters which are stronger than BoG arc goku which is stronger than all of gt Why they are stronger? Please don’t ever ask that dumb question again

[@RahulGupta-cn2hh]

@@supesisfodder7427 when did asking questions considered dumb! No further discussion with people like your mentality.

[@TheDragon-v7d]

@@RahulGupta-cn2hhyou are super bad faith and don’t know how to form a logical syllogism

[@Salciiiiii]

You realize BASE gt goku>>> ssjg goku BOG. It’s flat out shown Ssjg never surpassed ssj fusion. Base fusion shows to exceed ssjb. Therefore base gogeta from gt >>>>>>> ssjb goku from gt Let alone ssjg from bog.

[@grasshopper-ln9us]

Ssj4 gogeta all day