Star Trek Enterprise and Discovery are set in a NEW timeline created by Time Travel and Temporal War

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[@MajorGrin]

how the timeline changed , explained: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oajcZKeYp96Mhbs

[@Josh-of-all-Trades]

BUT the Vulcan Science Academy has determined that time travel is impossible.

[@whitegluestick6039]

Queue in illogical clip On a side note you don't know the trouble I went through after I forgot how the fuck you spell queue

[@MonkeyspankO]

Haha, highly illogical laugh, but I think I will allow it

[@acmenipponair]

The problem with the Vulcans of the 22nd century was, that they were so high nosed people at that time, that they forgot, that any theory has to be scrutinized and that something like "there is no time travel" should never be said by a true scientist, only: "we have not yet proof, that time travel is possible."

[@zero_gravity5861]

*directorate

[@zero_gravity5861]

@@whitegluestick6039 and now you realize you meant cue. cue facepalming :)

[@everardohernandez8036]

And Star Trek Picard is because of Janeway's time traveling in Endgame

[@OzPiggy87]

Yep, 100% agree.

[@EpicNinjaShiro]

I'm pretty sure it is a semi consistent future with its original time but an off shoot of newTrek movies specifically, which I wholeheartedly believe isn't even an original timeline offshoot to begin with based on the theory that figure sales of "Spock Prime" didn't use the previously consistent "Mr. Spock" naming due to not being allowed to do so. This puts it in the same boat as STD.

[@HinesEdventures]

That’s debunked because Janeway and Picard talked in Star Trek nemesis. In Janeways original timeline she did not return for another 15 years

[@JamesTFaile]

Yup

[@JamesTFaile]

@@HinesEdventures that's proof that she messed up the intended timeline.

[@Jarvis-MkII]

I just knew "First Contact" had more effect on the timeline than we expected! Those pesky Borg!

[@NitpickingNerd]

they accidentally made the Federation even stronger . probably why they don't use time travel often . it often causes the opposite of the intended result

[@braveintofuture]

@@NitpickingNerd isn't that what the Borg want? Trigger technological evolution in a species to assimilate the tech later.

[@NitpickingNerd]

@@braveintofuture usually yes. but I think Earth was a special case and they just saw it as a big threat to be eliminated because it was the first species to successfully resist them in a long time

[@braveintofuture]

@@NitpickingNerd I always wondered why the Borg attacked earth and then travelled back in time instead of travelling back first and just assimilate. My only answer is they wanted everything to happen is it did to boost human technological evolution. Just like infecting someone with a disease to get a cure.

[@NitpickingNerd]

@@braveintofuture maybe they were worried about human temporal agents stopping them. They had to suddenly make that decision in the last possible moment to catch the temporal agents off guard and erase them from existance with the most powerful change in the past in the very first strike

[@richardched6085]

Solution: the Horizon is the Freighter Mayweather was born on. And the colony was also founded before the launch of the NX-01 which had the first true Transporter.

[@TerranGuy93]

That is exactly what the Enterprise books explain it as. It was right before the Earth-Romulan war broke out, while they were testing the early Coalition of Planets.

[@Mukation]

@@DD-ws8jc That answers the questions asked in this video. NX-01 Was a prototype, a cutting edge piece of technology and in the pilot half the crew are surprised by some of the tech onboard, like the transporter. It was brand new tech.

[@sijdnsd6460]

This theory works until you realize that Enterprise’s finale had Will and Troy...from next gen... in ties to an episode that happened 4 years before First Contact...

[@acmenipponair]

But still the Horizon Freighter was able for sublight communication, just not on a big range.

[@acmenipponair]

@@sijdnsd6460 But what if this scenes (as they were in reality) been only filmed in universe in the new CHANGED Star Trek Universe.

[@ancapftw9113]

For that matter, the air force had access to a Ferengi ship for several days in the 40s.

[@weirdkitty07]

Well, this is because Sam from Quantum Leap leapt into the body of Captain Archer.

[@SeekAStrak]

Things went kind of "kaka" and he got stuck in Captain Archer's body while the real Captain Archer got stuck in Sam Beckett's body.

[@jasonthatjason1912]

@@SeekAStrak ... and how in the heck did he end up in New Orleans?

[@emsleywyatt3400]

My theory always was that the NX-01 Enterprise was named Dauntless in the original timeline and that the name change resulted from the events of "First Contact". Also that TOS was what the timeline looked like before the computer revolution caused by Henry Starling's theft of future tech and that TOS-R was what it looked like after.

[@mbsaxman600]

That is pretty good

[@chuckintexas]

Kinda _WORKS_ ! Nicely done !

[@everything1023]

Wait what was tos-r? The refit era? Or discovery?

[@jymfysher7704]

A very logical assumption !

[@DogsRNice]

@@everything1023 remastered

[@dramonmaster222]

Plus it probably didn't help that time travelers left their future equipment lying all over the place.

[@shaydowsith348]

well, that is precendented when Scotty gives up the formula for Transparent Aluminum in the "save the whales" Star Trek movie...

[@russellharrell2747]

This is no different than advanced alien species leaving behind tech on more primitive worlds. Just that with time travel a civilization can travel to its own past and advance itself at ‘faster’ rates and ‘soon’ be the most powerful civilization in the Galaxy. This is probably what set off the temporal Cold War in the ‘first’ place.

[@johnsmith9403]

From a canon perspective, just declaring that enterprise and discovery are in a different timeline would solve a lot of inconsistencies

[@darrellboggess4954]

so sick of alternate timelines...can we have a series with actual continuity, or does effort really scare them that much

[@matthew8153]

Effort is expensive and companies hate expensive.

[@axelfoley1406]

I know. It's just easier that way. Look at the Marvel universe. What a a MESS.

[@donpietruk1517]

It's why I hate time travel tropes in Star Trek. Almost anything you do causes a continuity problem.

[@jackalenterprisesofohio]

@@donpietruk1517 even just being there causes time anomalies, say you are standing infront of a food cart, so a business man doesn't get to see the menu, find out it's his long lost brother, and they create the greatest food truck empire......

[@EliSkylander]

it scares them that much.

[@McGowanForge]

Enterprise is my favorite trek show, always felt like a real situation humans could be in with reaching warp Also yay new Jersey mentioned in star Trek

[@michaelmckinnon1591]

Where is New Jersey mentioned in Enterprise, I remember they mentioned Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, (Carbon Creek), Ohio, Virginia, NYC, and Montana but no New Jersey?

[@doncarlin9081]

Michael McKinnon it was in the TNG episode about the fraudster pretending to be a historian professor from the future, but actually was a failed inventor from NJ.

[@commanderbracey7501]

It became my favorite too.

[@gyver8448]

Yeah, I thought that too. Right up until they started including the super advanced time travel bullshit.

[@jamespitoola1954]

Snooki founds section 31

[@bigdopamine9343]

Enterprise takes place in the original timeline. Discovery never happened. So let’s never mention it again.

[@whitegluestick6039]

Prime timeline is the main Kelvin timeline is ja ja abrams nutrek and disco hopefully doesn't take place in prime

[@akafuguvids]

in the OS didn't the Enterprise meet Klingons face to face for the "first time?" If i remember right, in that timeline they had been in a war with the Klingons in which they fired nukes at each other's ships, but had no tech for visual contact with each other the whole time, and Kirk and crew were the first humans to discover what their enemy actually looked like. And then came Enterprise, and later Discovery and clashed with that continuity.

[@bigdopamine9343]

@@akafuguvids I believe you’re thinking of the romulans. Though enterprise may have retconned them a bit too. Stuff like that has happened on Star Trek before. Discovery just doesn’t feel like trek. It feels like a foreign rip off.

[@LeeKeels]

If it's on film, it happened.

[@bigdopamine9343]

@@LeeKeels Not necessarily. The TOS zephram Cochran is a completely different person with a different story than the Cochran we meet in first contact.

[@russellharrell2747]

Does everyone forget about the ‘Parallels’ episode of TNG that featured 100,000 or more alternate universe enterprises. It only makes sense that time travel in Trek causes alternate timelines and that we may be seeing different timelines within each series. Each time there’s evidence of time travel we are probably witnessing an entirely new timeline from the beginning of that episode, even ‘before’ the time travel incident ‘happens’. This can also explain continuity errors within episodes, our perspective changed between timelines and we didn’t notice

[@matthew8153]

I remember in DS9 there were many instances where humans were depicted as this incredible race that advanced technology in a fraction of the time of other species (Garak even mentions how quickly humans eat food because they evolved so quickly from their period as prey). It was later stated again by Surak (Spelling?) in Enterprise how quickly humans advanced and that it scared the Vulcans.

[@mitchellmelkin4078]

Matthew, The contention you're referring to in "Enterprise", was made by Soval, not Surak. Regardless, that advancement had to have occurred between the time of WW III and First Contact, or else there should be nothing about it that would have surprised the Vulcans, as they were physically present on Earth, thereafter. Indeed, why wouldn't technological developments on Earth, that supposedly evolved between Sputnik and WW III been known to Vulcan, through their continuing to monitor it, after the events of "Carbon Creek", which should have occurred, irrespective of the content of T'Mir's report on that prolonged contact? In fact, Soval's comment to Forrest, can be more readily interpreted as a type of foreboding, that Vulcans may have held about Earth, not really having to do with unwarranted technological momentum, than humanity's fundamental duality between the poles of endemic violence and enlightenment, one that 'seemed' to be positively bridged in far less time than it had taken on Vulcan, which was a problematic reality to accept. Going even further afield, Soval expresses much the same incredulity in "Prelude to Axanar"(despite many more decades of experience), when characterizing Earth's leading the Federation so far, so very quickly. As to the dialogue on DS9 you cite, as I've watched relatively little of the series, I'm unable to respond with any perspective.

[@Jamius01]

THis is made after Mitchell's comment: what sucks is how long it took us from, say 800 AD to get to nuclear power in the 1940's. 800 AD is the same... as untill the 1200's as far as tech. We are actually slow learners... We built the pyramids 3000 years ago and still havent built really any... we went to the moon in 1969... its now 2021... we still do not have a moonbase. Shakes my head.

[@matthew8153]

@@Jamius01 It’s not that humanity are slow learners, it’s that some lessons re refuse to learn. Every time an empire gets big it starts spending on social programs instead of continuing to develop. Eventually it collapses under its own weight and we have to start all over again.

[@captainnerd6452]

@@matthew8153 it's interesting that the DS9 episode where they go back to a somewhat dystopian US takes place in 2024, three years from now...

[@matthew8153]

@@captainnerd6452 And in that two-part episode every city has a sanctuary in it to house the homeless and illegals. Life is imitating art.

[@nbc_uk]

All things that I've repeatedly pointed out to people saying that "Discovery is Prime" means that it is in the same, exact timeline as the previous seasons. The Prime Narrative can skip between timelines - as all it means is that it's the narrative that they're primarily following. Sadly a lot of fans seem unable to understand one the the core idea in Trek, that of overlapping, multiple timelines.

[@LtDavidB312]

My headcanon. I think the Romulan BoPs from ENT’s second season were time travelers themselves, appearing in order to try and drive the NX-01 off or keep them 100% distracted from what it was they were actually doing.

[@chuckwilliams3003]

That would explain the Nemesis uniforms

[@chuckintexas]

Ok- I'll go with it. It kinda _works_ !!

[@CHASEMARC]

Enterprise is the only show in ALL timelines, Prime, Kelvin and whatever Discovery is in

[@TimeTravelinc]

“A spin-off of a spin-off” This apparently indicates that the series (STD) is a branch off of the Kelvin-verse. Sometimes, time travel and parallel universes make things more complicated then they should.

[@Alovatololo]

Doesn't this ignore the conflicting comments presented by the video? Enterprise is certainly set in the oldest timeline but it was already showing deviations from prior series meaning it's already branched off of prime.

[@CHASEMARC]

@@Myroloresh did you watch Star Trek, NX-01 is shown as a model in Star Trek into Darkness (Kelvin universe), they have a USS Archer (as part of the fleet heading to help Picard) in Star Trek Nemesis (prime universe), as for Discovery per the creators that is also the Prime universe (as much as I hate it) -- don't really care what another fan thinks, what I posted is facts from the source

[@onocoffee]

I don't recall seeing an Enterprise in the Discovery Federation of the 30th Century?

[@CHASEMARC]

@@onocoffee if Discovery is in the prime universe (per show creators) then Enterprise is part of that universe, if the creators are ignoring it then Discovery is not in ant known Trek universe

[@kathleenhensley5951]

You know what that all reminds me of? How quickly the computer age started and evolved. I was 25 when I saw my first 'micro computer' I played a few rounds of hang man on it. Green screen, line drawings. One second my husband was sitting cross-legged on the bed trying to get a small computer to blink its lights in the right succession... next second I'm posting this on 'YOU tube' - not quite a matter of seconds but I've always wondered about the shear speed of it, all. If it was revealed it was a controlled, planned release, I'd shrug my shoulders and say "I always thought so!"

[@ntech62]

Possible theory to this. In 1947 there was that Roswell crash of a supposed "weather balloon" that was originally reported as a crashed UFO. What if it was a alien spaceship as first reported? Then the Jesse Marcel story was true with him seeding alien technologies to US firms at the time leading to transistors and integrated circuits. So technology may have been seeded.

[@PALACIO254]

How would you feel if it wasn't? Just curious because I'm relatively young and grew up with lap tops on the late 90s and early 2000s and now we basically have pocket computers

[@lihtan]

I've heard testimony from military personnel that there were working with computers that had flat panel displays and 1GHz processors in research facilities back in the 1970s.

[@walterengler5709]

What I hate about the STD writers is they keep insisting everything they do is in the prime universe. Yet the toss in references to time travel impacting their universe and even write in how they were impacted by a temporal agent who crossed universes from the one changed by a romulan mining ship (Kelvin). They even state their STD universe and the mirror universe separated and no one else was able to travel between after the Empress crossed over .. which is COUNTER to ST:TOS, ST:DS9 and other prime shows. Everything proves their universe is NOT the prime universe (though they call themselves that with ego).

[@relo999]

Maybe the fan's prime universe is now the old universe, the one from TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and Ent. Whiled Discovery is a new prime universe, as in CBS considers new properties to be part of this new universe and is their primary universe.

[@anoniemw.222]

I think in the timeline of the old show an accident happened with the glass window on the bridge. because of that accident starfleet removed them from all starships. In the kelvin timeline and the discovery timeline this did not happen. That is why they have a big glass window on the bridge

[@Zorro9129]

transparent aluminum*

[@captmkg]

Can we show this to the Kurtzman? I don't think he'd learn anything, but it would be interesting to see how many times he pulled out his phone and took notes of what else he can twist.

[@FortoFight]

He'd probably like the idea, and then fuck up on many of the details thus maintaining the lack of continuity. I believe that he's that incompetent.

[@deadNightwatchman]

The Kurtzman is belligerent. Also pigheaded and ignorant.

[@ah7910]

Kurtzman seems genuinely vindictive. I truly believe he and his creative team get a kick from our complaints. They have no emotional investment in Trek lore, but a huge love of their own weird fantasy show - any criticism from us gets ignored and on some occasions - they have even trolled us.

[@jymfysher7704]

I don't like him either but especially BORG contamination can explain much of the Discovery mess!!

[@yvettechevalier7089]

Klutzman... 😅

[@andrewmorris9946]

Well this does help to explain quite a few things. Not the weird klingons though.

[@braveintofuture]

No it doesn't directly explain Klingorcs but if delivers precedence. One could have travelled back some million years, step on the wrong bug and thereby alter the evolutionary outcome of a species - and suddenly everyone looks like shit.

[@wayfaringshaman]

Well, think of it this way, the human race has different types of people, like Caucasians, Asians, Africans, Latinos, Arabs, etc. - could be the same for Klingons. In DS9, they even referred to an "albino Klingon". Now, I'm not defending "Nu Trek", I hate it just as much as everyone else, and don't think it's Star Trek, but that could be a viable explanation. Plus, it is possible that the "weird Klingons" were the result of crossbreeding between regular Klingons and the Augments.

[@whitegluestick6039]

@@wayfaringshaman and it could explain why we only see those type of klingons maybe other more common klingons outcast those ones

[@sijdnsd6460]

This works until you see that the finale of Enterprise shows Will and Troy...from the next gen... in ties to an episode that predates first contact by 4 years...

[@capnsteele3365]

the disease vaccine that the alien doctor had during enterprise

[@Ikouy]

Continuity errors? How quaint. On a serious note, in the Star Trek IV novelization Scotty knew he invented transparent aluminum thus causing I think it's called a predestination paradox.

[@HepCatJack]

Yeah, that invention only came out in 2019 in our timeline.

[@JB-ym4up]

Process for producing polycrystalline cubic aluminum oxynitride JW McCauley U.S. Patent 4,241,000, 1980 Aluminum oxynitride having improved optical characteristics and method of manufacture TM Hartnett, RL Gentilman U.S. Patent 4,481,300, 1984 Transparent aluminum oxynitride and method of manufacture RL Gentilman, EA Maguire U.S. Patent 4,520,116, 1985; U.S. Patent 4,720,362, 1988 Transparent aluminum oxynitride-based ceramic article JP Mathers U.S. Patent 5,231,062, 1993 Patents listed on Wikipedia under transparent aluminum.

[@mem1701movies]

You’d think they’d have a better material for the ENTERPRISE D’s windows

[@acmenipponair]

@@mem1701movies You think that transparent aluminium could withstand the impact of a photon torpedo, which has the energy of 100 Tsar bombs?

[@chuckintexas]

@@JB-ym4up - uuhhhhhmmmmm - HHhhmmmm ....... - _AFTER_ the Scotty gifts Transparent Aluminum timeline intervention ??? Interesting ...

[@Keithustus]

So just to check....Discovery season 3 will be 900 years in its future so that it takes place a bit after Enterprise’s Daniels’s 900-years-later temporal enforcement agency?

[@theamused8705]

Yeah about 100 years after Daniels

[@Keithustus]

@@theamused8705, ahahaha, you waited until after the season ended to reply?

[@theamused8705]

@@Keithustus i always wait until the season over so I can binge watch

[@RayVision3D]

Lets do this from the beginning. ST:Enterprise is a timeline that was created when Odo and Quark went back in time to Roswell. ST:Discovery timeline was created when the Zindi went back in time and conducted experiments on earth. ST:Picard timeline was created when Janeway went back in time to rescue Voyager. The Kelvin timeline was created when Picard and Data went back to the 1860's San Francisco. Basically, anytime a time travel occurred, an alternate timeline was created. Even if it appeared that the crew returned to their original timeline, that other timeline continued to exist and develop from the point the time travelers arrived. At least that's what my head canon says. That is how I'm able to enjoy the new shows. They take place in alternate universes and have no effect and only a slight connection to the original shows.

[@garydignam5414]

After watching this video, I feel like I'm in a time loop!!

[@explorer47422]

Daniels specifically mentioned the Xindi attack on Earth 'never happened' according to his history from his timeline. This could explain why Disco feels a lot more militarised and Earth more defensive against alien threats

[@Hawkcam1996]

The problem with the theory that First Contact changed the past is that history is still the same after the Enterprise-E returns to their own time. Pretty much every time the past was altered, the future was affected(except the reboot movies). And as the Voyager shows, technological leaps caused by time travel were already part of their history, meaning they’re predestination paradoxes.

[@90lancaster]

Whenever I mention this sort of thing in some video comment I usually get shouted at - people can't seem to wrap their heads around it - not even the (blatantly obvious) way that Discovery's Klingon war could only have happened as Michael Burnham didn't die as a Child as Momma Burnham saved her at the cost of 10's of Thousands of other lives - . But it's blatantly obvious to anyone watching the shows with care in production order that something changed. Heck the Xindi Attack on Earth never happened in Kirk's experience for example. One could even argue the entire timeline is even more different that people 1st realise if one shows doubt about how 1st contact would have originally come about - Cochrane may have built a ship that was capable of interstellar distances at low warp and travelled to Alpha or Proxima Centauri and found a colony of seeded humans left there by the preservers (who may have unusual skin colouring) but are still interbreedable with Humans - then these two world become fast friends and things go on from there - the Vulcans could still be the main Alien Race they meet. But that Early Starships may have been the small Enterprise shaped vessels we see in The Animated series. That timeline visually and conceptually would be very much like the FASA Universe.

[@alexandriamaguire8224]

I thought earth had a war with the augmentins that nearly wiped out humanity? Cochrane was the first rocket since NASA died..... With the remnants of humanity just camped out in Montana.

[@JackMcMac]

TNG also had that treasure hunting episode with Picard where they were hunting for future tech which had fallen into the past. Seems like the Trek universe is a Swiss cheese of different timelines. Then there is the JJ Abrahams complete Trek reboot based on time traveler Spock...

[@The_Mighty_Fiction]

That's a self-terminating timeline. In years to come, when Romulus' sun goes supernova, Spock will make sure to stop it or evacuate the people, save Nero's family and therefore remove his impetus to travel back in the first place. At least that's how in my headcanon, this horseshit all gets erased.

[@rhuman8672]

Enterprise did screw up a few things but it was still feels like proper trek. And I really love that series.

[@bluebankrollarmy4384]

Enterprise looks like microsoft technology and Discovery looks like Mac or Apple technology

[@matthew8153]

Incredible how spot on you are.

[@morrisho6450]

Lol you're right

[@capnsteele3365]

yea but the enterprise wasable to be used for many years

[@Skynet_the_AI]

You're right lol

[@cozakaxo]

Alternatively, Starfleet Academy's history reqs are rather relaxed compared to its technical education. Like, wouldn't be hard to believe a modern naval captain wouldn't know what kinds of guns were used on a first world war dreadnought and, embarrassingly, said on live TV something like "oh, y'know, in the old days they used sails and broadsides. Ever see pirates of the Caribbean?"

[@ananousous]

"Didn't anybody here build ships in bottles when they were boys?"

[@NGC6144]

This has Dalek Caan's name written all over it.

[@judgemagister]

time travel could retcon a few things.

[@undeadknight01]

Just a few lol

[@or1750]

Just a tad few like when Captain Janeway rammed into the time ship in "Year of Hell" 🤔

[@Ikouy]

@@or1750 That retconned itself though...

[@sijdnsd6460]

This theory works until you watch the finale of Enterprise...with Will and Troy...

[@IronSpyder-ky2lk]

It kinda did in Discovery lol

[@JohnS-il1dr]

Scotty sure can type 90 wpm on a keyboard and software he never interfaced with.

[@drewlovelyhell4892]

Time travel as a plot device is more trouble than it's worth. Star Trek is plenty convoluted even without all the alternate timelines.

[@hassanshabazz6878]

This is one of the best video on Star Trek I've watched. Now I understand Discovery and why its so advanced and big.

[@is0p0d]

I always felt that a big shift in timeline stuff happened when cochran saw the enterprise E and the borg ship, that's why the NX-01 looks so smooth and spacey unlike the clunky aesthetics of TOS-era star trek (And earlier, like the Daedalus class). TOS and TNG are set in the original timeline, but after that, Enterprise was a different timeline - with technology influence by the time traveling in the TNG movies, and then whatever the shit DISCO is, and probably Strange New Worlds, is the result of the Temporal Cold War. And DISCO's meddling caused the reality that we see in PIC. Every time they mess with the time space continuum it fucks stuff up, no matter how hard they try to put it straight. TOS and TNG aren't affected because they were documented before major infractions in the timeline -- explains why the treks get worse as they get newer. EDIT: worse as in more bleak and "warped/messed up" compared to the idealistic future portrayed by TOS and for the most part TNG

[@squirrelkilla7371]

Pretty sure this was already figured out. It was due to what happen in First Contact. That's why the showed them finding Borg in the Arctic on Enterprise

[@FP194]

Enterprise was failing and they needed a story line to get people to watch

[@wrongway1100]

The first Enterprise was the HMS Enterprise of the Royal Navy. It was captured by the US Navy in either the war of 1812 or the Revolution.

[@90lancaster]

I wonder was Reed a technical and engineering Genius then ? if he can do things that T'Pol or Trip might find difficult to do - or that T'pol might refuse to do due to her orders from the Vulcan High Command. That he gave that data to Section 31 who then gave it back to him to "Introduce" does seem like a much more reasonable explanation than him being a genius does - considering that in many other cases he is showing no great technical skills. I can think of a few cases where he does technical stuff - it would be interesting to go through them all one at a time and see if the situation he's in he could have have forbidden Knowledge or not on the subject. I actually think this makes him a significantly more interesting character - especially as he's up to all this shifty stuff but at the same time really doesn't much like doing it to his friends - yet he does see them as his friends so he can justify it as him protecting Earth and his crew.

[@thomasalvarez6456]

He was always hinted to be hiding lots and being good at almost everything on the ship.

[@skyradtvcomics4981]

Something tells me we aren't gonna be seeing a series called STAR TREK CONTINUITY anytime soon!

[@JexeonTV]

This make more sense than any of the other timeline videos I've seen on KZbin. Subscribed.

[@TiberiusX]

I always put First Contact as the creation of the new timeline.

[@alloydog613]

I can't remember all the details, but in a Start Trek novel by WIlliam Shatner, it also states this. It mentions that when they studied the Mirror Universe's timeline, a lake on some planet was called "Lake Riker", as opposed to what it was in the Prime timeline. They credited the Borg and Enterprise E incursion as the dividing point between the Prime and Mirror universes.

[@Pahjx]

My thoughts exactly. NX-01 was probably named and designed after the Enterprise E.

[@travisjames3517]

Nope. It was “Yesterday’s Enterprise.” Everything after that is a new timeline.

[@JB-ym4up]

There is a fan film USS Farragut where one of the episodes puts the mirror split in the US revolutionary war.

[@mem1701movies]

I don’t like FIRST CONTACT as a STAR TREK movie. It’s decent as an action movie but don’t care for the way they changed things. Ironically ENTERPRISE episode FIRST FLIGHT was more the way it should have gone.

[@dlausactor6373]

Note that Enterprise also takes place in a different timeline created due to the Borg altering past events in First Contact.

[@jadzia42]

NO retcon will ever explain the terrible writing of Discovery.

[@DogsRNice]

Polywater intoxication

[@jadzia42]

@@DogsRNice Frying Pan Elimination.

[@alfredthegreat9543]

I keep hoping Discovery is in a parallel universe as it's the only way it can make sense.

[@brandoncruise6398]

It is, it takes place in the Kelvin timeline created by the new Star Trek movies when the villain from the first one time traveled and change the past, creating a huge ripple effect.

[@brandonparisien2381]

It's been stated by the creator that it takes place in the prime timeline.... but I like to believe it's in a THIRD timeline; only thing that makes it watchable.

[@deadNightwatchman]

@@brandonparisien2381 KZbin channel Midnight's Edge has several videos about how Prime is not the Original timeline.

[@Mrjoshlyon]

I can accept this. While it doesn’t forgive the more overt and/or stupid logical/physical inconsistencies seen in Discovery and Picard, it does explain many of the appearances or use of other ‘anachronistic future-tech’ throughout the franchise. It doesn’t change how badly thought-out, poorly scripted and tonally embarrassingly Abrams/Kurtzman Trek is though.

[@baracuta3279]

Been watching through Enterprise in its entirety for the first time. Not Trek at its best, but it's still Trek.

[@doctor_whoey3857]

imo its trek at its best

[@essexexile]

To be honest I always saw Enterprise as it’s own thing but at least they were respectful to the past. If STD had continued that on as a soft visual reboot I’d be ok with that just leave 1966-2001 alone alas no they couldn’t because the writers are hacks.

[@britishnerd3919]

Man, Enterprise is one of my favourite star trek shows.

[@whitegluestick6039]

@@britishnerd3919 yeh I don't get all the hate towards it I personally never saw it as a show that went past season 5 but more of a history lesson of the first enterprise and her crew.

[@FJF1085]

They should have set Discovery in the far future from the start. That would have solved a lot of issues. Another prequel no one asked for. I’ll never understand why they made Enterprise but didn’t fit it properly into canon.

[@shauntempley9757]

@@FJF1085 They did. Enterprise clearly shows it exists due to First Contact. It then showed in its finale, that it is history, because Riker shows up there from the phased cloak episode in TNG. The entire show changed Federation history. Discovery exists because of First Contact, Enterprise and Future's End. The Mirror Universe exists because of The City On The Edge Of Forever. The Kelvin Timeline and Star Trek Picard exists because of the Romulan Supernova.

[@FJF1085]

@@shauntempley9757 No I get it that makes sense, I just feel like it needlessly muddled the timeline. It's not linear anymore, its like a looping line that doubles back on itself multiple times and then goes in a different direction. Because the thing is, we don't see Xindi for instance or mention at all of the any of what happened in Enterprise in later series so does that mean what happened in TNG and DS9, etc., were ultimately changed by Enterprise? I don't know to be honest. To me it makes sense if it was... or was what we saw in all the other series a result of the changes that were affected by First Contact, and ENT? If that's the case I'd love to hear what someone's idea of what the unaltered timeline was like, the one that would have existed before the time travel in First Contact and the Temporal Cold War. I recognize the connections that you made but the one I am not sure about is the creation of the Mirror Universe. What makes you think The City on the Edge of Forever was the divergence point? Was that indicated somewhere?

[@KingOfLesbia]

I agree about std, but enterprise fits the timeline I'm ok with some of Tos being retconned as had Abe Lincoln floating in space and that lame spocks brain episode it was good series but some of the worst episodes in trek that I pretend never happened

[@climberly]

Fuck you, floating Lincoln is Cannon and Spock's Brain was a masterpiece, any man or woman of culture will tell you that!

[@alexandriamaguire8224]

STD...... sorry....rofl so hard i woke my neighbors.....😂

[@zero_gravity5861]

@@climberly *canon

[@matthew8153]

@@climberly A man of culture would not use such vulgarity.

[@AlleniumProductions]

I've been watching Star Trek since 1971 and this is the BEST explanation of Star Trek history as we know it today. WELL DONE MATE!

[@avengingterrier3244]

I do so love the 'anomalies' and what better to discuss them than the Star Trek Chronologies where things like subspace transmission, transporters and warp drive are described and dated yet seem (often) to fall outside of the established 'facts' in classic trek. GREAT video.

[@Todd.P]

. . . and suddenly, it all begins to make sense! Thanks!

[@kilometerbob2662]

i always attributed the errors to the fact that first contact didn't perfectly correct the timeline just mostly. and we know enterprise is in the post first contact timeline because of the borg

[@dylangrizzle]

This is a cool theory that actually makes Disco Trek 1-5% less terrible, thanks. 😎👍

[@Sxnxjenemkwamksusnwvjsjw]

Or maybe all of Star Trek that takes placeafter enterprise (the cage discovery tos the ToS movies TNG DS9 voyager the TNG movies and Picard) takes place in an alternate timeline created by the Borg traveling from the future and the temporal Cold War.

[@GoodVideos4]

If one reads Star Trek literature about the history of the Star Trek universe, written before Enterprise, there is absolutely no mention of that Enterprise with Captain Archer. That alone shows that it can be not canon or can be an alternative universe. Oh well, it could have all, or almost all, have been a simulation anyway, as seen at the end of the series. Gene Roddenberry incidentally wanted a Star Trek series set soon after First Contact. Even in the forgotten series, the animated series, which is set soon after TOS, there is an Enterprise with some more advanced features and technology than in the Motion Picture. It was also apparently fairly recently considered to be all canon. So, it can also be regarded as an alternative universe. Can have a Star Trek spin off series about the adventures of the starship Relativity.

[@stevenbonovitch2497]

I’ve been preaching this for about 10 years I’ve left comments here and there now someone else has come to the same conclusion. Hurray!! Picard it’s all your fault.

[@hanzzeh9582]

My friend and I were talking in a parking lot late at night when DISC Season 1 was coming out, rationalizing that Discovery looking that futuristic is a result of Enterprise, which is a result of First Contact. The Borg were in ice the whole time and Picard's involvement with Cochran fundamentally changed First Contact. This video touches on many more events but it's pretty well known that Starfleet is sloppy with their time travel. So I wasn't ever that disturbed by Discovery's aesthetics, which could be seen as a result of ENT. However, the quality of DIS's and PIC's story writing is a lot to be desired. Mirror Universe is more advanced than it should be because of the Defiant. Check. Prime Universe is more advanced than it should be because of Federation and the Borg. Check. Spore drive? Fine. Control is a descendant of the Borg. A Reach. Federation post-temporal war crippled by the Burn caused by a crying Kelpian is repaired by a dilithium planet. What?

[@ToddAdams]

Damn. I was thinking "Why is everyone hating on DISCO".... then I read this and it unblocked my memory....

[@donpietruk1517]

Plus they COMPLETELY ignore the fact that the Romulans had switched at least their advanced warships away from dilithium to a quantum singularity warp drive in TNG time. The burn wouldn't of affected that.

[@alternative915]

Maybe the vulcan's were right after all about starfleet is not ready for space travel

[@travisjames3517]

The true timeline split was the second Yar went back into time and had Sela. Absolutely everything after “Yesterday’s Enterprise” is a new timeline.

[@OneofInfinity.]

The Phoenix was "inspiration" enough with the round nacelles, very similar on the NX-01.

[@philly83]

In the expansion of the scene from star trek 4, it was eluded that the guy was the one who invented transparent aluminum and Scotty figured he was ensuring that he made the invention.

[@Tyrannicus]

Brilliant compilation! I'm convinced.

[@barkydogable]

Each successive iteration of Star Trek has further frayed the continuity of the original ST timeline. STD and Picard are a mess because of this. The question now is will there be a final show(down) that will put everything back?

[@tetravega567]

A Temporal Police centered Trek, where they try to fix all the timeline errors.

[@Dargonhuman]

A Star Trek version of "Loki" and whatever the TVA of that franchise would look like would be very interesting, just as long as Kurtzman, Abrahms, Secret Hideout and Bad Robot are banned from touching it.

[@tylerlittleton6583]

I have maintained that the FASA timeline is the original canonical pre-history of Star Trek. The pre-history changing to Enterprise is purely a result of the temporal incursions of First Contact. This is "Prime" timeline. We do not know what happened in the original timeline's future, but everything after First Contact is a separate timeline from the TOS/TNG timeline.

[@deathstrike]

This is also how the "Abramsverse" was created. It ended up developing a far more advanced Starfleet and Federation culminating into the creation of the extremely advanced USS Vengeance. A true warship, or more a Federation Dreadnought. Huge, extremely powerful, fast, and incredibly well armed with weapons that worked while in Warp. Could take a crew of over a thousand, but could be run by just one if necessary. The only way weapons worked in warp in the normal timeline was possibly the Photon Torpedoes. They were equipped with a warp drive, but it was never mentioned. As for the USS Vengeance, it represents a dark Starfleet. One more interested in winning wars than exploration. But had this ship somehow found itself in the prime universe, the Borg would have never been a problem, and perhaps none of the other races like the Romulans or Klingons would have fared any better. The USS Vengeance was the epitome of warship design, and with a Romulan cloaking decide and Klingon heavy disruptors? This would have been also more than a match for even an Iconian Warship.

[@DMSProduktions]

Been mentioned elswhere, & I too tend to agree with it. A GOOD way of explaining & making for plausible retcons!

[@sh-ig9fm]

I like the first contact created enterprise and Discovery being more advanced as a result of all the changes That's what my mind canon looks like

[@Sewblon]

7:00 Section 31's entire thing in DS9 was promoting the interests of the Federation at any cost. So expecting them to just sit on that tech and not use it, once they have it and know what it is, is illogical.

[@pompshuffle562]

Honestly I treat new star trek series like legends in star wars. Never assume anything is cannon until they confirm it.

[@DanBen07]

You should check Enterprise to see if they ever say the word phasers. Technically they do not have phasers in the 22nd century they had phase - phase pistol / phase cannons. There's a difference between a force field and a quarantine field. When that timeship got back to the 22nd century would another timer be on and it disappear and go somewhere else ? The tmp Enterprise with the rings around it was pictured in Star Trek Enterprise season 2 episode first flight.

[@NitpickingNerd]

phase pistols work exactly like phasers . only difference is they can't yet vaporize people. so maybe that's what Worf meant. but if the NX01 Enterprise was so important wouldn't it be featured on that display in TMP ? maybe Zerfram suggested the name Enterprise for the NX01 and originally it was named something else. so Archer still commanded the NX01 and did a lot of the same things but his ship wasn't named Enterprise so it was featured on that display because it only had ships named Enterprise. also the mission to the Klingon planet was a direct result of the Suliban trying to change the timeline. also the Xindi arc never happened in the original timeline , as mentioned by Daniels .

[@DanBen07]

@@NitpickingNerdI agree with you. All good points .

[@NitpickingNerd]

@Revan 100 nope. he's from the original timeline in which it didn't happen. the timeline changed. his organization probably have temporal shields that protect them from changes in the timeline (which sometimes don't work if the change is very severe )

[@csehszlovakze]

@Revan 100 Daniels had no idea the Xindi incident would happen. Only Future Guy did, and only after the fact.

[@HepCatJack]

Before the change to the timeline, they called them: "Phase muskets" :-)

[@NeonVisual]

The nacelles on the phoenix and a couple of other ships shouldn't work because they are supposed to have a direct line of sight, hence why they are raised above or below the ship. hint hint STD

[@90lancaster]

That may or may not be the case - remember the warp field stabiliser on the NX-01 - something like that could be used to bend the field around to touch even if there is no line of sight - it's clearly not required by the dozens of Alien Races who don't have line of sight on their engines.

[@NeonVisual]

@@90lancaster www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/design.htm

[@whitworth5s248]

What about Voyager's folding nacelles? They sometimes have LOS and other times are directly behind the saucer section. What's the deal with that?

[@radioflyer68911]

The vulcans had to know right from the start that time travel is possible. Spaceflight is time travel. Those on the International Space Station are in a small way traveling through time.

[@MetalSnakeBoogy]

Now it's up to Loki and the rest of the Quantum Realm to eliminate all these variants.

[@FanboyFilms]

Henry Starling reverse-engineered Captain Braxton's timeship in the 1960s and changed history, as per Voyager. EDIT: Well, there you go. 12:36 So Voyager was also part of the new timeline, as were the Kelvin movies. Voyager also dealt with the Krenim. Archer with the Vosk. Lots of meddling. And the Terran Empire reverse-engineered the Defiant from 100 years in the future of the Prime Universe.

[@SheldonAdama17]

The thumbnail is absolutely hilarious 😂😂😂

[@dj1NM3]

Scotty's "transparent aluminium" was about a decade (presuming the movie is set contemporaneous with its release date) behind ALON, used in US armoured vehicles vision ports.

[@danmanx2]

Interesting video. My theory is that Chekov devices from 1985 we're not thought to be real and were never put to the test. also keep in mind that there was a breakdown in society in the 21st century so it is possible that these items could have advanced technology further but it's also possible to that they were actually lost by ignorant people who did not understand what they were holding in their hands such as the comm badges. still though time travel is always one of the most coolest things on Star trek and I do like that they try to collaborate with the past but eventually you're just going to have so many plot holes such as this.

[@NitpickingNerd]

Tha authorities saw a group of people broke chekov out of the hospital. The doctors also witnessed them revive chekov with a device and also saw kirk melt a door lock with a phaser. if they reported it to the police then they would take a second look at the devices he carried

[@WillCrawford0]

@@NitpickingNerd they would be in a crate, in a big warehouse, like the end of Raiders!

[@robertagren9360]

They used hammer and nail method. First Hammer the device until it falls apart. Second nail it back in place and test the device.

[@darkshogun5887]

People get bent out of shape with continuity errors. They are to be expected from shows with different writers, directors, and producers. That's especially true when they want to do something different than what was previously done. Hell, look at comics

[@csehszlovakze]

PHOENIX TIMELINE

[@thomasalvarez6456]

3:05 3:20 “Haven’t perfected quarantine fields” Also Bev is joking about their crudeness Also, Phase pistols were still different from phasers.

[@quantisedspace7047]

Phasers weren't invented until the time of Kodos The Executioner, so quite recent in SNW. Kirk, then 14, on Tarsus IV, describes how he heard of Kodos's takeover over sound only radio, and that the colonists had been forcibly split into two groups, with the two groups attacking eack other with 'blasters' and gives a grizzly description of their lethality..When the rescue ships eventually arrived, Kirk noted that all the landing party were equipped with 'the new weapon, a phaser', which could be set to disrupt neural activity and not kill. I read this in one of the novels. Can't t remember which.

[@onetruekeeper]

When Archer and friends travelled into the "past " it was not the past of their timeline which is impossible but an alternate timeline where the events are taking place in the present where the calender date is several decades behind. So T'Pol was correct when said that time travel into the past was impossible.

[@brianrussell463]

In fairness those images from Star Trek: The Motion Picture, wouldn’t be every ship named Enterprise. The second ship doesn’t look like an aircraft carrier. There have been two aircraft carriers named Enterprise in the US Navy already and a third one planned to be commissioned in 2028. There was a Virgin Galactic ship called the VSS Enterprise. There were at least 11 ships named HMS Enterprise for the British Navy that were commissioned from 1705-2002. And likely a whole bunch of civilian crafts called Enterprise. So one of the missing ships could have been the NX-01. However, none of what I said helps to prove or disprove your theory about ST: Enterprise being in an alternate universe/timeline. Also the NX-01 wasn’t part of the United Federation of Planets Starfleet. They were a part of The United Earth's Starfleet. So the ships in the Enterprise Ds or Es observation lounge would only be from The United Federation of Planet's ships not United Earth's ships.

[@ZeroB4NG]

You make a convincing case, just one thing, up until the JJ Abrams Movies the Timeline was ONE Timeline, timetravel altered the timeline and made it part of the history of the universe, it did overwrite the exiting timeline, not add an alternate one like the mirror universe. JJ Abrams comes along and suddenly people expect every oh so small alteration to create another mirror universe, no, that was a one time freak accident plot device. ...so your theory would mean that everything from TOS to VOY would have to look like the future of STD now, effectively overwriting all the classic stuff we got on DVD. That would be disrespectful to the work of everyone who ever worked on Star Trek pre-JJ Abrams... or watched it. I don't know which is worse, intentionally discarding the original material or because of incompetence and ignorance, either way is insulting. Enterprise had its continuity nitpicks, but ENT also put a lot of effort into respecting the original timeline and no i did not like it when they slapped "phase-cannons" and "photonic" torpedoes onto the Show, i wanted ENT to be a lot more NASA than TREK, i would have loved it if the show had been vastly different in storytelling and objective, but they just wanted to keep the same TOS/TNG meta going because that was their comfort zone, i would have loved it if the show had been about that Ring Ship Enterprise instead, small crew, no anti-gravity generators and none of the modern Trek gimmicks like Transporters etc. ...the objective could have been something like colonizing Mars, not fight the evil timetraveling Xindi and Suliban.

[@USAFJUNKIE]

You're missing the point. It's not disrespectful to the older shows because their timelines weren't deleted. They're implying that time travel in Star Trek is more like time travel in the MCU. Each time someone goes back in time it creates an alternate timeline. It's not like Back to the Future where any changes will overwrite the previous future.

[@alexandriamaguire8224]

Infinite diversity in infinite combinations

[@deadNightwatchman]

It's the "creators" (I use the term very loosely here) of the new shows who are disrespectful.

[@antwan1357]

I always felt that star trek the original series and the movies are in different timelines . The TNG era is from the Star Trek movie Canon based upon the Klingon changes. TNG kept the Klingons from the trial of Cpt Kirk , and even rehired the soon to be most famous Klingon Worf.

[@davidt8087]

Worf was already acting in tng before star trek vi where he played as the lawyer for kirk

[@TalexTheLich]

This is an outstanding theory, a few things like sisco might be referring to the first enterprise in starfleets history, not earth (technically enterprise the series takes place before starfleet was founded)

[@mitchellmelkin4078]

Talex Simms, Then, what is it that's being referred to as Starfleet throughout "Enterprise"? It predates the Federation, but not an organization known as Starfleet, unless it's a different Starfleet than the one we know, out-of-universe, through "Voyager".

[@TalexTheLich]

@@mitchellmelkin4078 its still starfleet but its refereeing to Earths starfleet, like how each nation has a navy, earth had it owns starfleet.

[@quantisedspace7047]

Did Sisko specifically use the prefix 'USS' ?

[@dixievfd55]

This is why I think Control is based on Borg tech.

[@Kehvan]

Well, frankly, either the Borg were destined to go the past in an effort to assimilate Earth, and in their failure a few drones were frozen in the Artic resulting in the Federation first encountering the Borg decades before their official introduction in the prime timeline around 2364, or an alternate timeline was created as a result of the Borg's time travel and everything that happened in the series *Enterprise* with the Borg was just the point of view of one single pass through a 310 year causality loop. The series *Enterprise* could have been the first pass through the causality loop or the millionth, the series never dug too deeply into these thing to present the idea, let alone ponder it. Ultimately my point is this: Star Trek has used time travel as a plot device and created prequel series and movies so often that time travel and the prequels end up damaging Star Trek _canon_ to the point that it's practically broken. When it comes to ST:TOS, we can't really say anything from the series is genuinely canon anymore. Every attempt to retell some aspect of the USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) results in an event, a character, a technology, or just the ship design being different from the original series. The powers that be don't seem to give a darned about canon anymore, or they've been playing some kind of multi-year long set up of a huge plot reveal that will help make Star Trek time travel just a bit more logically consistent.

[@PHOENIXGUNDAM]

In fairness according to Enterprise the timeline was massively changed by a shuttlecraft entering a planets atmosphere and igniting it with a plasma discharge destroying it. So it could be possible that due to the temporal war(s) massive changes could have occurred. The federation getting advanced tech, klingons being devolved to a technically weaker faction with sarcophagus ships, Picards mother both existing as a old woman and being borg queen so Picard can become locutus, and the major change that all ships are rendered dilithyum warp capable only in the 31st century to weaken the transportation capability of most of the federation. I know it excuses somewhat what is laziness on the part of the current writers but still makes more sense than "this is how all this always was".

[@a.g.m8790]

Seeing that guy at 2:45 always makes me happy. I don’t even know who he is but I always liked his face and mannerisms lol

[@jameskahler8438]

The timeline is completely altered from the original timeline.

[@eingoluq]

Wow. This is pretty cool. That in all of startrek history was continually being altered.

[@matthew8153]

It’s called: “Trying to explain away bad writing”

[@eingoluq]

@@matthew8153 That's the joke!

[@SuperZekethefreak]

Who is behind the Time War? Voyager aka V'ger went through a wormhole to around 600 years in the past, encountering a race that had evolved into AI and Androids. They used the future-tech to become the V'ger aka Vorg aka Borg, who proceeded to travel further and further backwards in time, all the way to 10,000 BCE earth-time. All in an attempt to stop humanity from cleaning up their mess and wiping out the Borg. Go back to the movie and listen to the early Vorg speak , "assimilating" any culture and technology they encountered. The overall arc of all ST shows dovetails into this one single story of how Starfleet finally overcame the Borg not by force but by détente. For all we know, Q created the Great Barrier to keep Starfleet from screwing up the rest of the Universe and not to protect the Milky Way from some exterior threat.

[@andytol1976]

So; here's how I see it. Original Series, TNG, DS9, and a chunk of Star Trek Online would be the "main" timeline, where the past goes to plan. They take time travel and it's consequences very seriously. Romulus go boom, but Spock doesn't break reality by doing the nasty in the pasty. Utopia Planitia yards get trashed too, but it's the Klingons. Then the 1st loop occurs with Search for Spock, and Chekov leaving gear all over. This ends up with Enterprise NX-01, and Voyager seemingly so much more technologically buff than all the other Star Trek tech up to that point. Still no Picard or Spock contamination, but there is other time travel in smaller doses. Within that another loop is created, with First Contact (Enterprise E is like Voyager, so much more too it compared to TNG/DS9), that really messes things up and creates the temporal cold war, adding even more technology contamination (Captain Thor, Kirk daddy's ship, Discovery and it's new and improved pimped out Pikemobile) . And finally; Spock breaks everything with his zippy jellyfish ship, powered by plot goo that can destroy entire solar systems with a marble sized drop... With each layer, people cared less and less about the consequences from altering the past. Also kinda make Picard and Spock terrible people; for messing up the past without cleaning up the mess. Picard didn't look for and destroy any Borg chunks before popping back to his own time, and Spock's red goo of plot; if it could stop a star from working, could easily destroy a mining ship. Instead he let's himself get dropped off on an ice planet to go on vacation for 20 years.

[@bad-people6510]

And Picard clearly takes place in the Mirror Universe.

[@1eyedwilli3]

I wrote a huge post on Reddit about all of this, nearly everything referenced in this video. A few years ago and have discussed this with many on Reddit about this many times after………