Star Trek The Next Generation Ruminations S4E17: Night Terrors

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[@Mulberry5]

That scene in the morgue gave me night terrors of my own back when I saw this as a kid. The scene still gets to me even now! It's a good scare in an average episode. The Picard door chime scene makes me laugh still too!

[@rafetizer]

I love how baffled he is when there actually _is_ someone outside his door.

[@MidnightSt]

Oh my god, the morgue scene, yes. I also had many nightmares of it... Whatever you think about the episode... that scene was pure piece of diamond. Just thinking of it still gives me chills.

[@tbk2010]

I'm slightly surprised how negatively this episode is being received. I mean i didn't expect it to be in anybodies Top 10, but there is a lot to like here. Getting to see another federation ship is always nice (especially in the new Blu-Ray version), even if the model isn't new. Data rather naturally slipping in to a command role when needed. Troi not being useless for once. Miles showing some (amplified) insecurities regarding his marriage. Guinan shooting up 10 forward. Picard visibly hanging on his last shred of sanity. The morgue scene. Worf loosing it. And just in general a very enjoyable (mild) undercurrent of dread and desperation throughout the latter half of the episode.

[@rafetizer]

I always get a chuckle out of Worf bookin' it off the bridge. It's just *ZIP* he's gone!

[@jakem7666]

There is a condition called fatal insomnia, that I find completely horrific. It causes complete inability to sleep, hallucinations for months and then dementia and death.

[@jshariff786]

Well how am I supposed to sleep now that I know about that?

[@KertaDrake]

I could see being anti-continuity being a mindset formed because it really wasn't all that easy to go back and watch an episode you missed back then. Berman probably just really wanted the stories to not be heavily dependent on seeing an episode that aired a month earlier and may not be shown again for months. These days such ideas are a recipe for disaster as people have taken to just binge-watching entire seasons of shows and have easy means to go back and watch older episodes they missed.

[@rmsgrey]

There's an anecdote from the TOS days that a director told one of the regular cast "and then you press this button" only to be told "but if I press that button, it'll blow up the Enterprise!" - if the cast take the mechanics that seriously, then you get a decent amount of background continuity for free. When it comes to using placeholders for places and times in the scripts as a way of allowing for continuity, while it works for that, it does mean you can't then build an episode around specific places or times - the same way that using placeholder "tech" for the science leads to technobabble rather than genuine SF. Though, of course, it can be done well - Babylon 5 had elements in guest episodes where JMS inserted a scene or a line or a reference or a C-plot in order to tie in to future developments (or past, but by the time there was much past to refer back to, JMS was writing pretty much all the episodes anyway).

[@IRex-wm9pd]

This episode is what got me into death metal. "Eyes in the dark, one moon circles..."

[@jshariff786]

I actually always liked this episode. I'm surprised to hear that so many viewers supposedly didn't.

[@1300l]

I like this episode. I find the idea of the two ships trapped trying to communicate intriguing. I like how (no matter the reason) loose the mind, slowly is amazing, it would destroy the society inside a Galaxy class. About the Anti Telepathy tech may be something such as cloning is forbidden. I like it.

[@BPond7]

I was looking forward to this rumination. I rather like episode, and always have. I’m surprised so many people don’t care for it.

[@malvane8061]

Patrick Stewart wanted something to do? How about miming the turbolift ceiling coming down on him.

[@factualopinion6947]

😂

[@pavlenikic9712]

The scene in the morgue still gives me the creeps. Amazing.

[@quasimodojdls]

ALIENS: One moon circles. TROI: Why didn't you just say "we need hydrogen"? ALIENS: We felt like being enigmatic. TROI: When all of our lives were at stack?! ALIENS: Eyes in the dark. TROI: Never mind! Picard screaming in the turbolift, Crusher among the corpses and Guinan breaking up the fight with her BFG (good thing the UFP doesn't believe in gun control, am I right - LOL) are three scenes that have always stuck with me from TNG. It's really shocking that they all come from such a crap episode.

[@roystonsbailey]

I always like the scenes where Troi and Data work together.

[@dylanlewis5113]

Battlestar Galactica Season 1 Episode 1 "33" show the effects of sleep deprivation on the Human body and mind. Great episode of a great series.

[@Z1gguratVert1go]

Communications travel time idea: Subspace signals are very, very fast but attenuate after a distance from their source and slow down to the point that they are useless. To prevent this the Federation is sprinkled with Subspace Relays - basically wifi-repeaters. Starbases and inhabited planets have these, and Starships act as these, and relays are dropped by starships venturing out into the unknown to maintain real-time contact. Important places like Earth and DS9 have a chain of relays connecting them, so real-time communications is possible despite a great distance. It could be that the Enterprise was far enough away from the nearest relay that the attenuation problem was producing the 1 week delay. So they could be off the beaten path but not necessarily THAT far off the beaten path, just outside the reach of the nearest relay. Now why they weren't dropping relays along the way is a good question, but maybe they were out of them and had to do this mission before they could get more. Also Class VI probes act as comm relays, but they are very small and don't last that long on their limited power supply.

[@SchneeflockeMonsoon]

Honestly, the dream message sequence makes me laugh. The rhythm of the voice is so catchy.

[@bobkilla430]

My biggest issue was troi having the same damn dream over and over for 16 days and only until the last few does she connect that it has something to do with what's going on.

[@EnvisionerWill]

Here's yet another case of you disliking an episode that I love. I admit that the flying Troi dream-sequences are kind of lame, but at the same time they're kind of awesome; if they just hadn't had her yelling "where are you?" and flying in a really bad wire-fu rig, but instead had been walking slowly across the clouds (as if on a carpet) and looking silently confused and afraid, that would have been enough of a change to make the whole thing perfect. As to the rest of the episode, I found the general tone of tension and anxiety to be extremely effective. I can't say enough good stuff about the concept of the show, and the execution is mostly good enough IMO.

[@EnvisionerWill]

I firmly disagree that the crisis of the week should never repeat. This episode is more than sufficiently different from "Naked Now"; I see them as resembling each other no more than "Game of Thrones" resembles "Lord of the Rings".

[@rafetizer]

Agree on the "walk not fly" in the dream idea. It would have worked just as well. There were a few instances where I thought the crew wasn't reacting as they probably should have, and which would have improved the episode a bit. The main one that comes to mind is when Picard hears the phantom door chime, but instead of calling Geordi or someone to report a faulty doorbell, he just ignores it like he thinks he imagined it or something. It's early enough in the episode that he should have still been acting like himself, more or less, and I think it could have helped with the mystery to have an engineer report that the door is working properly. The dream sequence stuff could have been more progressive, rather than just having Troi repeat the same crap in the dream, and then with the catatonic dude. He was a total waste of screen time. (poor actor) It felt like there should have been a bit more progress in the dream to connect Troi from random nightmare to her conclusion that someone was communicating with her. Oh well, I did enjoy the creepy atmosphere and the few scenes where people were freaking out.

[@raincloud7]

Man...this episode is hilarious. Riker's paranoia is the best.

[@nickokona6849]

All I ever remember when I think about when I watched it years and years ago was that the eyes in th clouds and the voice were creepy.

[@MidnightSt]

I had hallucinations once in my life, and... well, under different circumstances, while being ready for possibility of them, and they were... not bad. So I was utterly fascinated and captivated examining them. And yes, I knew it's not real, but... the perception didn't care about me knowing it's not real. Utterly fascinating and captivating.

[@Yura-Sensei]

Oh ye.. The morgue scene

[@deadvex]

i gotta say this one is as a popcorn burner is great. dont think about it too much and sit back and enjoy the ambiance. also want to point out the first thing i thought of was "the naked now" when they confirmed the other crew killed each other. also the way they start acting initially was almost identical to the episode "genesis" (which i guess would be the other way around since "genesis" came after)

[@ELEKTROSKANSEN]

As a Pole, I had to chuckle at the Polish polish joke, lol

[@rafetizer]

Polish polish is the best. Now, the question is, did I just say "Polish polish", or "polish polish"? Mwahahaha

[@MidnightSt]

Troi flying through space - imo much better would be... her still in the spacevoid, but basically experiencing sleep paralysis. Straight and stiff as a plank, only eyes moving. ...wait, i think she shouts in those scenes, right? Okay, then, we'll let her whole face move, but other than that, sleep paralysis. That would actually be chilling. ...would also work with your idea of the thing being on the ceiling, but... sleep paralysis while being surrounded by void of space seems much more unpleasant than while just watching some movie on your ceiling.

[@PencilManners]

Your point about Patrick Stewards' acting really sticks out in the scene where Picard and Riker are standing in the Turbolift. Picard has the posture of a frail and withered old man, something we've never seen form the character before, even in his weakest moments. It's almost a Clark Kent/Superman situation. where he feels like a completely different person in that scene. Riker on the other hand doesn't looked fatigued at all, maybe a little irritated. It made me think he wasn't effected until the dialogue and the following scene proved me otherwise.

[@Eelco_de_Boer]

It's the episode where no-one can dream, except Troi -> "Eyes in the dark... one moon circles."

[@rafetizer]

This episode is basically Event Horizon, but the beings in the other dimension aren't evil, and to solve the problem (since they're not going to kill off 99% of the Enterprise crew here) someone was like, "Hey, what about Carl Sagan's golden record?" (Oh wait, this predates Event Horizon) Interesting concept, definitely rough, and Troi figuring out her dream was a message seems like a stretch. At least it was fun watching Picard freak out in the turbolift, and people throwing punches in ten-forward. (always a good time) Guinen's golden laser gun was awfully goofy though, especially the chinsy sparks effect. Apparently a little bit of real sparks weren't in the budget, or were an after-thought

[@athrunzala6919]

I haven't rewatched this in forever, don't even remember half of what you talked about. The episode is that good.

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

will not say the name of the work not to spoil, but there is a book/film dealing with a planet-bound race that believes it has spaceflight, in which at one point the local astronomers find there are brushstrokes on the sky... and guess what... it turns out that does not matter to anyone... because, they know space is "Real"

[@harpercole5321]

One of my favourite episodes - someday, I'll find someone else who likes it (but not today!) The atmosphere really draws me in - acting, music, hallucinations etc. It would have been nice to follow their mental collapse further, but I guess we can't really have the crew killing each other!

[@youtubed3951]

any thoughts on the Star Trek: Picard Trailer?

[@KeyBladeMaster-Dan]

It was the topic of Loreweek but those dickheads at CBS copywronged it

[@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes]

Here's what I envisage: Episode 1: Picard eats rice pudding and gets some on his chin, all audience members less than 60 years old are grossed out. Episode 2: Picard falls and fractures his hip, but HealthCare 2400 doesn't cover it because a government bureaucrat proclaims it was a pre-existing condition. Episode 3: Kurtzman writes an episode with dialogue so ridiculous (even more so than "I like science" & "That's the power of math, people") that even the soulless corporate bloodsuckers at CBS (Copyright By Satan) are forced to cancel the series.

[@corssecurity]

People not able to dream, or afraid to go to sleep. Hmm that could work. Imagine this. Once upon a time a school janitor, kidnapped, abused and killed children. The parents figured out it was him, attacked him and burned him alive in the school basement. So he ends up in Hell and comes back bonded to ancient malevolent spirits. He can invade the dreams of the children of the people who killed him. Seeking revenge. The teens fall asleep and he terrorizes and toys w/them before violently killing them in the dream world and they die in real life. It could work.

[@brianstewart7191]

No chemical explosion would be more powerful than a matter/antimatter explosion. A maximum yield photon torpedo would've worked.

[@rafetizer]

Yeah, the science stuff wasn't even "iffy, at best". I did chuckle at Data stating the hydrogen is volatile when mixed with something else. I was thinking, "yeah, it's pretty damn volatile even when it's in an elemental state".

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

to me, the events of StarTrek are basically the highlights of the life of the particular ship/crew... if this is all of their life rather than the exception... they should not be alive or doing as well as they are in-universe... That this is events far apart on the time line from each other is the only way it makes sense...

[@Sevish]

I love the concept behind the episode but yeah it's not terribly rewatchable. Wait what am I saying... I've seen them all countless times

[@williamozier918]

1) I think the show Supernatural nailed the formula for episodic continuity; each episode has a monster of the week, and then for any episode filler they just fill it with them talking about the main plot, "Well Sam we got no word from Castiel, Lucifer is still loose, and we're no closer to finding the Colt...so let' go hunt this werewolf then." 2) I think TNG mastered Prop Continuity, Riker's trombone, Picard's flute, Data's paintings, Sisko's baseball and clock, etc. I always felt Voyager would have been 100% better if they just did that little tweak.

[@DrownedInExile]

Damn you really tore this episode to shreds! Not undeserved either, but the fact that you talked about it this long suggests to me that you're as frustrated by it as I am. Because it had the potential to be so much better. The concept was mostly good. The atmosphere and hallucination scenes - especially the morgue scene - were seriously awesome. But the 2nd half of the episode was just... meh. My suggestions for improvement. The Tikken's Rift effects and the Binary Star system both should have been presented as a more serious threat. Perhaps the gravity of the Binary Stars was slowly pulling the Enterprise and the Brattain deeper into the Rift, causing worsening power losses to everything including life support. Cmdr Data could have explained information on Tikken's Rifts was very limited, as only 1 starship had ever encountered one. Subtley implying that no other ships survived such encounters, and making a convincing hand-wave away for any other aspects of the Rift that didn't seem to make sense. As for the hallucination effects, they could have been more easily explained without the overly complicated dream-deprivation nonsense. Have it just that the Aliens' signal was causing the crew to hallucinate. Perhaps the Aliens had been stranded in the Rift so long that they were getting desperate. And that sense of desperation was getting picked up sub-consciously by the crew. The crew was thinking they had to take emergency action right now, but what? Add to that the message came from an unseen source, and the content "eyes in the dark" caused paranoia. Like what Riker described, feeling someone else was in his quarters waiting for him. Add to that the other stressors of being stranded, the dead Brattain crew, and the increasingly failing power on the Enterprise, and you've got a bloody mutiny waiting to happen. Night Terrors occupies a weird space in my head. It's strangely memorable for its atmosphere... but it's definitely not rewatchable, nor would I count it as a favourite :/

[@francoislacombe9071]

The creators probably mixed up the effects of sleep deprivation with those of dream deprivation, an understandable mistake for people who are not really knowledgeable on the subject. Which explains another mistake they made. Hallucinations from dream deprivation happen because the brain slips in dream mode while awake. But since their dreams were being actively suppressed by the alien attempts at communicating, there should have been no hallucinations, dreams would have been suppressed regardless of them being awake or asleep.

[@OpenMawProductions]

Yeah... They should have just slipped into coma's/vegitatives states/died.

[@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes]

Excellent post. I have had hallucinations after about 48-72 hours of sleep deprivation. Are you saying that these hallucinations were actually due to dream deprivation?

[@francoislacombe9071]

@@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes Yes, that is what research seems to indicate. The need for dreams is so great, for some as yet poorly understood reason, that the brain will do it while awake if prevented from doing it while asleep.

[@rafetizer]

@@francoislacombe9071 Gotta comb through all the important stuff in order to put it in the right filing cabinet. Can't do it while you're awake and constantly opening and closing the drawers. XP

[@jeandehuit5385]

I actually rather liked this episode, so I was surprised that everybody apparently dislikes it. The morgue scene was just (chief's kiss) perfect. Tho. perhaps I just scare easy lol

[@jamespepper8671]

they didn't have computers like we do today so continuity is not as easy as you would think.

[@damastamindz]

I totally disagree I love this episode I rewatch it all the time. By the number of good scenes you enumerated I think secretly you do as well lore :) Your criticism of show-not-tell is off in my opinion. Crusher is giving a report to Picard on what happened to the other ship. She reported that the captains mental condition deteriorated. This is totally in character for a chief medical officer to report to the captain during the investigation. Then Picard reviews the other captains log which is again totally in character. Laforge "this better work data we are not going to last much longer". I think this line HAS meaning. It shows the desperation and urgency of the current plan. Remember right after this failed, Worf attempted self-harm. We had a time jump remember so this line gives context to the fact time has passed and they have been deteriorating. For me, the mystery was the resolution, how are they going to resolve this with so many crew members incapacitated? Anyway good video thanks Lore.

[@Crazael]

There is one simple reason for being against continuity. Syndication. A lack of continuity between episodes means that it doesn't matter what order they're shown in. And that's how shows like Star Trek made their money. On the Enterprise's route, I've always felt that attempting to map it out is pointless because none of the maps existed until well after anything was done. And, to a certain degree, trying to hold to a map can be detrimental to storytelling. Heh. "not a big deal", says the guy who just spent a full third of the video talking about it. :P An alternative to 'no sleep at all' is 'no restful sleep', which while isn't as severe, can also be pretty bad. On the 'no blocking telepathy' thing, well, it's pretty easy to keep a Vulcan from reading your mind when they have to be in physical contact and focus to even get anything, so they're not really relevant to the conversation. Really, you'd think the Betazoids would have figured something out for it by now.

[@andrewkyriacou6405]

Yeah this is one I don't like coming back to either. There's some good scenes scattered through it but on the whole it's not one I like watching. I think the biggest part of that is the nightmares bits. They're easy to point to and say that it was done badly. I don't really have much else to say about this episode.

[@WujekFu]

Well, Polish people likes you too Sir. :) Greetings from Poland and have a nice day. :)

[@ELEKTROSKANSEN]

Oh wow nie jestem jedynym Polakiem na widowni! Pozdro :)

[@candidbowyer4625]

aNOTHER reason: Geordi has a nice voice. It's an audiovisual experience. You overlook some very basic things. 1 difference between art & not art is that art is NOT NECESSARY! -it is overabundance, your cup runneth over & so on.

[@AlucardNoir]

Speaking of Dragon age 2. I haven't played it in a few years but I've been replaying Morrowind lately and for some reason DA2 keeps coming to mind, to the point where I now think DA2 should have probably been called Morrowind 2. I know you have to reuse graphics in a video game but still. And to think people gave DA2 a hard time but they still praise Morrowind.

[@ieatvirgins]

Are you fucking high?

[@zuzoscorner]

ways toescape. Hmm well they could use Air to push the ship away. they cleary aren't falling toward the planet so they aren't within it gravity. i'm sure star Trek ships have something like A.S.S or something to use.

[@Spartanj42]

Oh god, Dragon Age 2 was fun while I played it, but when you stop and think about it, pure trash.

[@KeyBladeMaster-Dan]

Just wanna say screw CBS for copywronging this week Loreweek episode

[@rpra6435]

Not a lamentation? Wow...

[@wcoleman99]

this show was a worse version of darmok. Too much 2 moons circling without the effect of darmok and jalad at tanagra. i hated that Troi waited a hell of a long time to bring up the whole i keep having the same dream thing. let the whole two moons circling drive everyone crazy till they figure it out.

[@TheHansolo0]

1 moon circles

[@negativezero2221]

Sorry i'm on the camp that doesn't like this episode.