Star Trek The Next Generation Ruminations S5E01: Redemption II

[@ashnackDEblogspot]

No Klingon janitor is going to Sto'Vo'Kor unless the tavern is totally cleaned up.

[@revenvrake7412]

I did like Worf sparing Toral at the end of the episode. Not just because he saw the boy as a tool of his Aunts and the Romulans. Toral didn't RUN. He's clearly scared out of his wits standing in that Chamber full of enemies all alone. But he doesn't run, doesn't turn away. His aunts have already showed their character by fleeing. Even though he expects to die, he won't flee. Worf, on some level, respected that I think. The boy had more backbone than his father did.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

7:00 "It's very obvious Ronald D Moore does not have experience or is versed in military tactics" Ronald D Moore was in US Navy's Reserve Officer Training Corps program and was on the verge of becoming a Navy Officer until he was picked up at the last minute by TNG as a writer.

[@paulscott2037]

The tavern cleans itself. Good for the bloody tavern.

[@MidnightSt]

VIscera Cleanup Detail is a klingon janitor simulator.

[@paulscott2037]

Dude I STILL watch your Voyager ruminations. Semi-regularly. Usually whenever I watch a Voyager episode which I sometimes do just at random to have something on in the background. But sometimes I also just put your ruminations on to chill out and have some relaxing but intellectual analysis on.

[@francoislacombe9071]

My personal headcanon is that Sela disappears after Unification because she was removed from her post, possibly even executed, as a consequence of the abysmal failure of her plan. Lets also not forget that she is not pure Romulan, something that must have earned her a lot of ennemies in Romulan higher echelon hierarchy, who must have been looking hard for any reason to get rid of her.

[@1300l]

I don't like Sela period. But since she exist, she should be the main villain on Nemesis, where we would find out that Shinzon is her pawn.

[@francoislacombe9071]

@@1300l Interesting concept. Sela humiliated, demoted and exiled on Remus, where she plans her revenge on the Romulan elite and on the Federation. Would have made a better story than what we got.

[@MrGunlover12]

I remember loving this episode as a kid and it's still good. But watching it now and considering lores points it really could have been a great episode and to be honest it had good potential to be three or four parts

[@WhiteScarsEmo]

I remembered having a problem with the tachyon net part. Not because of the whole “2D idea in 3D *space*” but because there was no mention of using the fleets’ auxiliary craft to augment/extend the net. Using every capable shuttlecraft and maybe even their probes as part of that net. Sela, at the end of the episode, always felt like she was written a one-off. Having her as a constant throne on the Federation’s, and the Enterprise’s side, would’ve been fun. Especially if Sela’s weapon is remembering her mother’s recollections of the Enterprise crew and using them against them. Picard should’ve asked for proof of Sela’s story. It would’ve been simple for Sela to offer a blood sample, something. Or even her giving it by theatrically cutting herself with a knife and handing it to Picard to examine later. (Hints of… “Nemesis”.) 29:00 Klingon Roombas? Or maybe that one Klingon working off a tab? Or lost a bet? I always wondered how Duras’ loyalists kept going after being dis-commendated. All their lands, properties and what-not seized, taking away their means of revenue and support, how are Duras still able to function (within reasons) afterwards? Right up until “Generations”.

[@MariahSyn]

This whole "Non-interference" thing smacks of a Lawful Stupid alignment at work.

[@mr51406]

28:15 Tavern scene: ... like hockey players after the game. During the game they’re fighting viciously, but later they’re at the bar, just as rowdy, but together. (Some wisdom this Canadian got from his Dad.) Qo'noS is probably too warm but I’m sure Klingons would love hockey. Cleaning: a baryon sweep?

[@paulscott2037]

This is one of those episodes I do tend to take with a grain of salt. I love all of the acting on display. I love seeing Denise Crosby again. The Klingon stuff is awesome. I really enjoy seeing Data being a badass. So for all that I tend to ignore all he technical details. But you're right none of it really makes sense. Which is a shame because I think it could have been fixed if they'd simply stated that the Romulans NEEDED to reach a particular system in order to save the Duras and that they had a time limit to reach there before a Gowron fleet arrived or some such.

[@Exarathas]

Hi there, I finally need to leave a comment here. I discovered your channel a few weeks ago right when I started my 6th (?) re-watch of TNG. I watched your videos after each episode and must emphasize how much I like it that you don't cut your videos. You prove that there are still people who can form more than one complete sentence in a row and prepare appropriately. It seems most channels nowadays use jump-cuts after each sentence for... some reason. Because everybody else does it? Because they can't talk for more than 5 seconds? So it's really refreshing to see someone like you and your style of videos. By the way, I also like Voyager very much. TNG is my favorite Star Trek series, but Voyager is great, too, despite all its flaws. I'm very much looking forward to re-watching VOY together with your thoughts on the series. Peace and long life.

[@ajsouza3720]

I really *really* wish that the Federation had gone to Gorwon offering military support but Gorwon turns it down. He then asks that the Federation proves what everyone knows, "That the Romulans are supplying the Duras."

[@dirtywashedupsparkle]

Hey, I clean houses these days as a job. Would recoil from a Klingon cleanup unless I have some deep form of enzyme cleaner. I can only imagine that the Klingon janitorial staff are Klingons so dishonoured they don't even get screen time.

[@gm2407]

they fight against the vermin enemies of the klingon empire. The bacteria and the tribbles. They are heros of the empire and when they die of disease they die in battle.

[@scotttrammell4299]

I wouldn’t have had Sela give the backstory speech at all. The Romulans operate with subtlety and secrecy. It makes no sense that she would just start expositing and volunteer all that information to her opponent, in universe. Out of universe, have the crew acknowledge the resemblance to Tasha, show that Sela knows about the connection but won’t say anything, and set up the mystery. Make it matter to Worf, like you said, and leave Picard’s reaction as it is-it doesn’t matter to THIS mission. But the mystery is there for later.

[@paulscott2037]

You clearly have a much better opinion of Lursa and B'Etor than I do because frankly I think they're morons. They think they're a big fish but in reality they're only propped up by the Romulans. You are right that the offer they give to Worf is a pretty tasty one. I also suspect that they have very little regard for Romulans. No more than they have for the Federation. But Sela plays them like a fiddle.

[@tougheddie7297]

Bloody good review. As nearly always. The wolf story line you suggested is one I never thought of and now can't believe the episode don't include. I do remember as a kid watching this episode and hearing 23 ships leaving for the broader, then the enterprise flying past and thinking yes let's see this fleet, no we get just 2 more (bearly ). Another reason why I love ds9.

[@lightsabermetrics]

It's stunning to me that Crosby's return as Sela wasn't planned as a long term villain. She would have been a perfect villain to haunt Picard, Data, and Worf for years to come. Was it because Crosby simply wasn't available to play a recurring role? I can't think of anything else she was doing circa 1991/1992-ish that would have interfered with popping up a couple times a season.

[@Galvion1980]

I think I remember some gossip about Rick Berman bearing a grudge against her for leaving in the first place and putting his foot down on more appearances ...wouldn't put it past him, since calling Bermann a dick is an insult to dicks.

[@MidnightSt]

What Klingon janitorial service looks like? Never thought of that, but the moment you asked the question, I had the correct answer: Ever heard of a game called Viscera Cleanup Detail? That's exactly it.

[@brentc2411]

The Klingon Empire conquered the Roomba home world over a century ago. Since then they haven't had to worry about janitorial services.

[@lancebaylis3169]

Season 5 was the peak of TNG, largely because it was *the* moment when it had left behind the shadow of TOS. The people behind the scenes had the confidence and conviction that their show wasn't just a spin-off anymore, but was rapidly becoming the central pillar of Star Trek as a franchise. Nimoy passing the torch in "Unification" reflects that, five years earlier the TOS cast were all vehemently against the new show, at this point there's a grudging acknowledgement not just that TNG was not going to fail, but was *actually* a roaring success. 1989's Star Trek V barely acknowledges TNG at all; 1991's Star Trek VI uses terminology orginated on TNG (the Alpha Quadrant, for example, is only namechecked in TOS for the first time in ST6), as well as Michael Dorn making a cameo as Worf's grandfather. Nimoy appearing on TNG closed the circle. This is also the season where the merchandising became phenomenal. Playmates first range of action figures was released during Season 5, and reflected the appearance of the characters as they appeared in Season 5 (noteably, Captain Picard in his jacket uniform). This is also the moment DS9 began to be planned, and Star Trek's original creator passed away. Season 5 is the moment Star Trek officially became more than just two TV shows. It had outgrown it's growing pains, as it were, and instead entered arguably it's creative and popular peak. And TNG was at the front lines of that. These are many of the reasons why Season 5 is solid.

[@williamozier918]

My head cannon has come to understand that warping inside a star system is impossible the same way doing 100 mph on the freeway at night with no headlights on is impossible. It's possible, it' jut really stupid and has a high chance of getting you and a bunch of other people killed. P.S. I absolutely want to see a show with a Klingon Counselor. Remember one of the big part of Klingon culture is being honest about your fears and what lay in your heart; that could end up making a Klingon Counselor really effective for humans.

[@DrownedInExile]

Damn you had a great insight about Worf & Sela!

[@gm2407]

i noticed obrien had lieutenant pips on his uniform in this episode.

[@Rasolisu]

S5 honestly has always been my fav of TNG.

[@misterlau5246]

I like this review. The analysis about the casus belli, Bravo!

[@francoislacombe9071]

The tachyon array could work if it was used as a phased array antenna, a cluster of small emitters working together in a coherent fashion to effectively create a much larger much more sensitive and accurate antenna. There are radar antennas of this type in Alaska and northen Canada keeping watch for incoming russian missiles, and it's a technique used routinely by radio astronomers to achieve very fine resolution images of distant objects like galaxies and quasars. The recent picture of the black hole in the M87 galaxy was made with this technique. A phased array tachyon grid of the depicted configuration could keep watch over the entire Klingon Romulan border. It could also be temporarely disabled by taking out one or two ships, which would force them to reconfigure and recalibrate the array's parameters, a process that could take several minutes. Too bad they didn't ask the opinion of a science consultant when writing that script.

[@MLPDethDealr32]

Your Voyager ruminations is how i found your channel, albeit a bit late XD.

[@jshariff786]

13:05 Lore: your spherical "tachyon radar" idea is good. But why do you seem to think that the range (or extents) of the tachyon sphere would be limited ultimately to the extent of the network of ships (in 3D space)? I.e. why do you think that the tachyon detection region is limited to the _interior_ volume bounded by the vessels, and that there's no detection sensitivity _exterior_ to them? You yourself said it: the tachyons are propagating outwards in all directions from each ship. The range over which they're effective is therefore presumably only limited by the inverse square law. And the whole point of tachyons is that they travel _faster than light*._ Given all of that, I would think that the detection region could actually be many many cubic light years (or cubic parsecs if you prefer). So now we're talking about a fairly long journey, even at warp, to get around it. Given the other constraints, such as the very tight timeline required for supplies to reach the Duras forces in order for them to win (as depicted in the episode), the Romulans may simply not have had the time to work around the Federation's blockade. Of course, an issue with my revision to your theory is that _it would not be possible for the Federation to open up a hole in their detection volume_ just by moving one ship out of position. The tachyons from the other ships would still converge to that location. It might be an area of reduced sensitivity, but not of zero sensitivity. So I agree that the writers didn't quite think this through, but they didn't do as bad a job as you imply, and the concept could be made to be sound with only minor tweaks. *Tachyons, of course, do not actually exist (as far as we know, based on all observational data). They were just a particle that had been posited as theoretically possible (albeit with some issues) by physicists starting in the late 60s.

[@nickokona6849]

Star Trek has never had a convincing handle on battle strategy at all. We get some very basic lines of dialog here and there (when Picard wants to present a minimal aspect angle in the war game episode, this sleepy Kern maneuver, the ok Riker plan from BoBW, and maybe showing the swarm tactic in FC over the picket lines of Wolf 359). RDM seemingly either got a better handle on space combat tactics for BSG, or he was always held back in Trek because Trek doesn’t really do tactics. The only way for me to make the tachyon grid sensible is if they’d said there was some sort of navigational choke point along this section of the Klingon-Romulan border (like the corridor from season 7 or whenever), or they use a Von Neumann probes to set up the field. Data did respond to Picard. He said Stand By. The fact that Gowron murdered the challenger as Worf restrains him seriously foreshadows who Gowron is. Kind of lends credibility to the theory that Gowron assasinating KmPek Most important in this episode is that they got the Nebula class looking right instead of the Phoenix with that stupid spoiler

[@ajsouza3720]

@Nick Okona As much as I hated Nemesis the battle between the Enterprise E and the Scimitar is the only time I felt like actual tactics were being used.

[@SchneeflockeMonsoon]

Based on the use of old ships like a constellation class and ones just off the assembly line, I like to think Picard’s 23 ships are his capital ships, and he actually had a mass of support ships or runabouts or shuttles which acted as extensions of the field to cover more lightyears, with each capital ship acting as the coordinator and actual number cruncher which took the raw data and produced the info on what was happening with the tachyons. Obviously the episode doesn’t fully support that, buuuuuuut…

[@donovanbradford8231]

The blockade Picard uses is I would consider more an embargo which isn't an act of war. But the Romulans know they can't attack these Federation ships but they also can't afford for their direct aid to been seen otherwise Gowron will win. It's weird because they use some different language for today.

[@dreye3215]

I thought the reason them being exposed mattered was because it meant the Federation could get involved in the war. Also, now that they knew about the Romulan's support, both the Federation and Klingons could threaten war with them directly if it didn't stop, and as you've said multiple times before, the Romulans REALLY don't want that. So deciding to just turn back and leave the Durases to the wolves really was the best choice they had under the circumstances.

[@Brandyalla]

My "weird thought" about Klingons and their hygienic habits is...how often do they bathe? Sometimes they look like they've showered and combed their hair recently, but most of the time they don't, and I really just have trouble imagining a Klingon in that process.

[@jshariff786]

You sort of don't have to imagine it, because you can watch Ba'el bathing in a stream or pond in TNG Season 6, "Birthright, Pt. 1". Then again (spoiler) she was half Romulan and grew up in a Romulan prison camp. So who knows if any of her behaviour was typical of what native Klingons do.

[@shootingreal5945]

I agree with the sela worf interaction..I always thought WHERE'S THE WTH REACTION FROM WORF..HE JUST STOOD THERE AND WAS CARRIED OFF WITH NO REACTION TO THIS..HUGE MISSTEP AND IT ALWAYS IRKS ME WHEN I SEE IT.

[@redlabel5241]

Hi Lorerunner. Long time watching, First time replying. About the tachyon detection grid, here are some of my thoughts: A .if every ship transmits a beam to every other ship in the fleet, the grid would be much more dense than what is seen on the screen in the episode, possibly dense enough to prevent cloaked ships from passing even if the ships making the grid are millions of kilometers apart. B. the small grid makes sense if the fleet has a good idea where the romulan fleet is to begin with. what I always thought was that they can, in fact, detect the cloaked romulan ships as subspace distortions, especially if they move at warp speed to get into position (either themselves or with the help of a klingon sensor network that is bound to exist on the romulan border), but they cannot conclusively prove that they are indeed romulan ships. This (kind of) explains how the fleet is able to be in the exact position where the romulans will attempt to cross the border. That being said, the romulans could have split their fleet and still made the grid useless. C. the purpose of the blockade was only to obtain conclusive proof that the romulans were indeed supplying the Duras, which is not possible using regular sensors. in other words, detecting the romulans with fairly high certainty is not the issue, proving that what you detect is in fact romulan ships is. Picard actually says something to this effect in the episode. Love your ruminations, keep up the good work!

[@davidkoritan1692]

A good episode as always Lore. Just had a few thoughts: Another way to prevent that Data drama: Captain, we are experiencing "engine difficulty" and, according to regulation [Regulation number from Wrath of Khan about open communications] it will take several minutes to repair. As for the blockade being an act of war, I'm not sure if that would completely apply in this situation. Officially, there is no contact between the Klingons and the Romulans at this point so, blockading their border *officially* wouldn't do anything. A possible explanation to make the tachyon net less stupid, assume that the Romulans *need* to go through that particular system for some reason. Say, the Duras family owns a shipyard there that needs the resources that the Romulans have. Finally, as for Worf not reacting to Sela, "The Romulans must be truly desperate if they think that performing cosmetic surgery on one of their officers to look like my old friend would distract me!" In other words, with how much Worf hates and distrusts Romulans, it wouldn't be a stretch for him to assume that Sela's appearance and voice were fake.

[@simonbray7430]

I watched your VOY reviews and i thought they great, it was good to get someone else thoughts on a series i actually quite liked, always gave me a different insight into the writing, story etc, and going through TNG and DS9 it's cool to hear your thoughts on them keep up the amazing work you do, season 5 of TNG and VOY are my favourites

[@Galvion1980]

There should be a comedy podcast about Klingon janitors...

[@videogenics86]

What I said last week holds up still in this episode. Gowron not asking for Federation aid officially or even turning it down keeps the Federation out of it. Which is needed for the story cause if the Federation were to help Gowron the civil war would've been over in days. One thing I think would help this episode is how they catch the Romulans cause that is all they need to do is catch them in the act and this would've been a good chance to see Starfleet intelligence shine. Picard and Data go to Romulus to get the information of when the next arms shipment is going to Duras. Why Picard? So he can see the intelligence with his own eyes and as the Arbitrator of Succession he is already viewed as a trustworthy source of information. This would make it easier for Sela to have REAL impact. She should have had lines like, my mother told me about you and then really twist the knife emotionally into Picard, and have her use the information about Picard she got from her mother against him twice at least. Once to good effect and then to bad effect, because the Picard she had been told about was one hardened by war and OUR Picard is more Swiss army knife than hammer and it throws her analysis off. Then of course plan on DOING something with her the rest of the season at least or better yet the rest of the show. A line from Romulan stooge general about how much of a colassal failure this was and how it set the Star Empire back decades yada yada yada only to have Sela shut him up and remind him that THIS was a long shot and yes it failed, but little of actual value was lost and that they could deal with the Klingons after the Federation was out of the way... Which in a later episode...say 3 or 4 episodes later we get a line or two about protests on Vulcan about insert Federation policy here probably something to do with the Cardassians and Bajor which would ultimately lead to Vulcan seceding from the Federation...sadly in THIS era of Star Trek such a thing could never happen even if the Romulans were behind it. Sigh.

[@Brandyalla]

So, what's the Klingon text at the end say?

[@1987jock]

Season 5 TNG is the greatest season of all trek and I don't think it can be debated. Also I just think you don't quite understand the tactics Picard is trying to use. You see, Housani's army, with fists open. Housani's army with fists CLOSED.

[@sicily7220]

Instead of Blockade. We call it Quarantine.

[@kitbashbob6426]

Why couldn't the Federation use probes to make the tachion net? They could have made a larger net with fewer ships.

[@grantlloyd9131]

Season 5 of Voyager is my favorite too.

[@Rasolisu]

The Blockade is a risk yeah but there is supposed to be NO Klingon Romulan trade at all, just being caught moving things over the border would discredit the Duras and game over. As long as they stayed on the KDF side nothing should happen, the Duras can’t complain as that would ask questions. And yes Sci Fi writers have no sense of scale. Subsequent uses of the tachyon detection grid would mention its starbase to starbase which would be light years. Although STO actually had a local one around Vulcan as Sela was trying another invasion of the place.

[@gallendugall8913]

What about the fleet in Errand of Mercy?

[@michaelkotcher5491]

Klingon janitorial services are taken care of by their servants, the people who are captives and non-Klingons.

[@mb2000]

I have a random question. Why do no other Klingons wear a massive baldric like Worf does? We see Worf wear his usual one over his Klingon uniform, but don’t any other Klingons have something like that on their uniforms? You’d think that the bigger and more ornate the better, but everyone else wears pretty much the exact same thing. And while I’m on the subject, how does Worf get away with wearing that baldric with his Starfleet uniform!? We’ve seen (or will) Riker and Tuvok make Bajoran’s remove their earrings, and Jellico made Troi wear a proper uniform. Now I would have thought that the baldric was a lot more obvious and/or intrusive than an earring. I suppose uniform code is partially at the discretion of the captain, but both Picard and Sisko were ok with it? And presumably whatever captain he served with before the Enterprise? Always bugged me that!

[@rylansato]

It’s funny Data did what he jumped on the guy for not doing earlier.

[@athrunzala6919]

I was hooked at the opening battle, loved it as kid seeing it for the first time, it really raised the bar. That 1st officer on the Sullivan was a butt hole, My moms biggest complaint always was "why is Data yelling?" I think he was going through programs of human interaction and deduced that an aggressive order necessary.

[@guygrist4436]

Season 5 of Voyager is probably my favourite that hasn't really changed since I first watched it, my opinions on Enterprise has switch from season 3 to season 4 being my favourite, for TOS its season 1 however for TNG and DS9 I can't decide which is my favourite season because I find the good episodes that I really like are scattered all over place rather than becoming concentrated in one season.

[@malvane8061]

You've highlighted a weakness of Star Trek: they treat space like geographic land on Earth. If a space opera doesn't create chokepoints in the vastness of outer space, the possibility of conflict does not look realistic. Babylon 5 succeeded in this with jump gates.

[@Slevin-Kelevra]

DARMOCK AT DENEGRA! MY FAV!

[@jamessmith1269]

the "don't warp in a system" thing, its why I prefer the Jump Drive from BSG or the Star Wars hyperdrive. I think it works a lot better to either have a consistent explanation that you can't Jump inside a gravity well, see every time an Interdictor Cruiser is bought into play, or in another scenario you can Jump but it is extremely dangerous because you have no idea where you're going and could Jump straight into a gas giant or a star. both are genuine flaws with the Hyperdrives, one because you could be yanked out by gravity (this happens a fair amount) and the other because you can hit a celestial object and blow up. "we can't jump inside a star system because screw it, even though that was even done by Zefram Cochrane sitting on top of a nuke with a lightspeed engine" doesn't work for me.

[@annabelleschunk684]

To me, it seems the existence of Sela is paradoxical. I don't really know how to describe the way time travel works in Star Trek. I think this is important because a lot of franchises have their own way of eliminating/avoiding paradoxes by changing how time travel works in their universe. Here's what I don't understand based on my thinking without knowledge of how time travel is protrayed in ST. From my understanding, sending the Enterprise C back to the Klingon outpost in the episode Yesterday's Enterprise should have eliminated the alternate timeline in which there is war. However, Tasha is now on the Enterprise C; this is an issue. If the alternate timeline - i.e. the timeline in which Tasha was never killed - is eliminated, shouldn't Tasha disappear the moment the Enterprise C reaches the outpost? Alternatively, if we assume that Tasha did reach the outpost (and the logic I tried to explain is flawed), here is what I don't understand about my second attempt to make sense of all this... In Redemption the Enterprise D is on the same timeline as Sela. If this is the case, shouldn't Tasha's death by the alien entity Armus never have occured? Shouldn't Tasha never have been on the Enterprise D. In my mind the only explanation of Picard having knowledge of Tasha Yar is that he is on a different timeline than Sela. Is it possible for timelines in Star Trek to cross and play out together starting at the meeting point? I don't know if all this makes sense or if anybody else takes issue with the way time travel takes place in Yesterday's Enterprise andRedemption I & II. Maybe someone can help explain this.

[@francescobianchi595]

Lore if you wanna find the real counterpart of klingom bar irl, go check "Third Time" in rugby 🏉

[@danielyeshe]

I hate the character of Sela. Her existence guts Yesterday's Enterprise. Yar now doesn't die a meaningful death in battle. Now she is forced in to a 'relationship', effectively raped and murdered! And, as you said, there is the fact of her age and high position.

[@andrewkyriacou6405]

I still enjoy this episode, it's definitely got some good parts worth watching but the Cela thing is poorly done, it has no impact as you pointed out. As for my comments: The blockade being an act of war: Yes that is true but that would still expose the Romulans as the only reason for them to engage with the blockade would be to get into Klingon space. Therefore the same thing would happen where support would fall away from the sisters which the Romulans want to avoid. The blockade being so small: I've got nothing here, even when I was a kid I thought it was dumb. As you say short of each ship having basically a many lightyears sphere around it there's no way the Romulans couldn't just go around it. Space is big. 14 hour time limit: I have no issue with this for the simple reason that if she'd given any amount of time bar like 10 minutes or less the same events would have played out. The Federation would force the Romulans to run the blockade with Gowron's attack and the Romulans would have been exposed. Granted it wouldn't be as plausible to organise it all if they were only given an hour but it could still potentially happen. Data should have told Picard: Yes absolutely this, as you say it only takes a few seconds for Data to say "Standby Sir I have an idea." He doesn't even have to tell Picard what the plan is if he's worried about Romulans listening in. The irony is that this is exactly the same thing that he admonishes Mr Hobbs (name?) his first officer for doing when he took the weapons off line without telling Data. I love the Klingon bar, it just feels so right. As for the state of it all I can say is: There is great honour in maintaining a clean establishment for warriors to drink and punch in! Romulan support exposed: I actually was always under the impression that the Romulans' support wasn't well known amongst the sisters' faction. Maybe some trusted generals and that's it. So when the Romulans were exposed there's fleets led by generals who have no option but to side with their pissed off crews and turn on the sisters because I find it much more believable that there are a few 'bought' Klingon leaders that know about the Romulans and going along with the plan rather than half the Empire going along with it.

[@mr51406]

Translation of final comment: “Sorry I just love Klingon government stuff.” No worries buddy, I do too! 🖖🏼

[@ProfessorTerrible]

I was sympathetic to the guy on the Sutherland at first. He was biased, certainly, but he also kind of recognized that and the fact that it could compromise his ability to work with an android captain. Unfortunately, then he was just a jerk, rather than sucking up the situation professionally like the situation demanded. Frankly, Data should have brought him on insubordination.

[@harpercole5321]

You've pretty much said my exact thoughts on this episode. With regards to season 5, I think the best episodes are just as good as those in S3 or S4, but there are more outright bad episodes. We'll see as we go...

[@KnightRaymund]

I overall enjoy this episode, logic issues aside. I like the Data stuff and the Worf stuff is ok. Nothing much really comes of him being captured though. The Sela thing was bad. She should have been a recurring character. And if they really didn't want to do it, then she should have been in an episode centered around her so she mattered. The 'writing both parts separately' thing is so annoying. The Part 2s rarely meet the potential laid out in Part 1. The worst examples are Time's Arrow and Equinox. Time's Arrow part 2 is overstuffed with the landlady and Twain subplots that weren't needed. The alien mystery and Guinan stuff should have been the focus. And Euinox… Janeway just goes nuts in part 2. Chakotay still has no balls. He says mutiny would be crossing the line. No it wouldn't! She almost murdered somebody and was putting her crew at unnecessary risk. Funny you bring up the fleet thing. It's jarring hearing the numbers thrown around in season 6-7 DS9 when up to that point, 20 ships is such a huge number and then suddenly they're sending over 100 against the enemy in one go.

[@navyreviewer]

I assumed Sela got her position from her family ties. Ahhh Tasha's life after Yestetdays Enterprise.... Before you scoff hear me out and think about it. Castillo (Christopher McDonald)... was a Romulan spy. Sounds like a joke I know but think about it. Enterprise C goes back with him in command. He couldnt just surrender because the rest of the crew would turn on him. So after a brief fight he orders their surrender. Tasha and he already had feelings for each other so she's already half way to Stockholm (syndrome.) After the battle when they're rounded up he reveals his true allegiance and she goes along with it until Sela is born. It makes an odd sort of sense. Sir you missed the beat twist of all. Here Worf stops a fight and says Gowron's leadership, and life, shouldn't be challenged because they're in the middle of war. This is the same Worf that later challenges and kills Gowron. In the middle of a war. Hmmm

[@grantlloyd9131]

(++++Spoiler++++) In STO the mission where the Romulans attack Vulcan uses a sphere-like grid to protect Vulcan and it mostly works in that situation.

[@jimschuler8830]

Up and down? What is this? Star Trek II?

[@d-logan5280]

"I'm not a fan of slapping people who aren't male" ... so you're a fan of slapping people if they're the right gender? SEK-SIZ-UMZ Confirmed!

[@aZeddPrattFilm]

I loved this episode . Just watched it. I thought this was an amazing episode. For me, all the technical/tactical stuff washed away based solely on character development alone.

[@kardy12]

At this rate, you should rename your rumination as rants. Because they are getting increasingly ranty and opinionated, both with TNG and DS9. I enjoyed them when they were objective, calm and rational.

[@1300l]

I have to say i'm not a big fan of Darmak, Ensgn Ro, Disaster, Cause and Effect and Perfect Mate. For me, what make Season 3 and 4 raise from 5 is that 5 kind of feel more clinic.. it is where TNG start to go down hill again (and will go complete down hill in Season 7, in my opinion 7 is way worse than 1 and 2). I also agree with why i also don't like Redemption II, i ONLY like the data drama plot. All rest i hate. I dislike Sela and all episodes with her, worf would not come back if it was more realistic. The episode is very bland too. About the Blockade, Romulans are not allow in Federation Space.. Klingons are part of the Federation so it don't bother me. Now the Takion (or how ever its spell) is ridiculous. It's called Xenophobia i think, the Data prejudice plot. I like it, there are dicks on the federation. The enterprise is supose to be a special ship with a special crew on Star Fleet. No wonder a ship without an captain is full of dicks. I don't mind also it's in the episode, the C plot. The main plots (A and B) are so lame and paper thin, already explored on the first part of the episode that it is a breath of fresh air the data plot, for me. I also think the pointless drama from him not informing picard make kind of sense. First, he is inexperienced as a Commander, he would make blunder. Also i feel he would not want to communicate to be a dick to his crew of dicks. Some times we need to do this so people can listen. I would like to see if after Redemption, Worf would become a new messiah, to change the Klingons and lead them to a new Dawn. The federation wont matter anymore. Worf could be a real life K'less.