Star Wars Ships could learn A LOT from the CIS...

[@asphaltmemories4597]

I often wonder if the clone wars had continued just how zany and dangerous the separatist tech would have progressed. Tri-Fighters and Droid Gunships especially felt like the first generation of a more deadly droid consciousness that could easily counter anything the clones could come at them with.

[@casbot71]

Imagine if they scaled up _the ship is the droid_ concept to capital ships, so there's no droids manning controls that organics could operate, but it's just a slab of amour without corridors, lifts, bridge and so on. Just small access tubes for repair and maintenance droids. They would be massively powered for their size, incredibly fast and manoeuvrable since they wouldn't be carrying the excess weight and space of crew facilities and living space (even for driods). And boarding actions against them would be impossible.

[@RA10H56]

@@casbot71 excellent bit of logic. That would be a devastating vessel. Kinda like the doomsday machine from Startrek!!!

[@RexMK-]

@@casbot71 Not to mention that Boarding Parties wouldn't be as affective because there are no controls or bridge to capture or crew to neutralize, you wouldn't be able to capture or disable ships with troop, forcing the rebuplic to just shot it until it little more than space dust.

[@chaotixthefox]

@@casbot71 The excess weight of people and empty space compared to solid metal?

[@trickedraptor]

@@chaotixthefox Yes because an unmanned ship can be a lot smaller for the same amount of strength.

[@Rdkjedi]

I’ve always found CIS’s fleet structure so interesting with the munificent being one of my favorite ship types, especially compared to the relatively boring GAR fleet (even tho the Venator is my favorite ship of all time) The CIS is just a super under appreciated Star Wars faction in general, one of the biggest reasons the clone wars era is the most interesting to me

[@elijahsellers3727]

Agreed. The GAR had more ships, but for some reason they never caught on in most of the books. The cross-section book mentions several different types of ship for thr Republic

[@mariusventure8430]

Roger roger.

[@Flint_Inferno]

Roger roger

[@dootcoyt5775]

🤖

[@killfrumthedead77]

🤖 Roger Roger

[@craftinteemo7055]

Roger roger

[@faeisgae]

Rodger rodger

[@thatzachguy76]

I so badly want to see a Rebel faction that found an old CIS factory and started cranking out droids and using CIS ships (outside of Rebel 1 of course)

[@thatzachguy76]

@@cmedtheuniverseofcmed8775 true but I wanna see stories about it or a movie or a game or something ya know. Really diving into the idea.

[@thesharpercoder]

Droid factories were useless to the Rebellion. The Empire could come along and bomb it. The Rebellion could not afford to defend one. The CIS droid factories were hidden on CIS planets.

[@jacobgale4792]

Could've sworn I read some CIS ships were donated to the Rebellion were gifted with small contingents of Re-programmed B1s as partial crew (still needed rebel officers to fill out some roles)

[@thatzachguy76]

@@thesharpercoder they had many factories that were on unknown systems. Palp thought he knew of all of them but the Sepratists did have factories he was clueless about.

[@KaiserAventus]

I hoped we get something after the Book of Boba Fett was announced. But i want to see that too!

[@canisblack]

...I've always wondered why the Rebellion never stripped a Venator of its hangars and installed a few of those surface to orbit ion cannons on them.

[@MrRobot-0]

Short answer, venators did not exist at the time of the original trilogy Long answer, the empire kinda used venators as bribes to mofs and other navy specials to fill their own home fleets, so it was kinda hard to get their hands on a venator.

[@Hawkeye83627]

The ion cannon on Hoth was maaaaassively expensive. The rebellion couldn't have afforded to buy/build more of them, realistically.

[@henrycooper3431]

@@Hawkeye83627 i also dont think a Venator can supply one of those with enough energy

[@Hawkeye83627]

@@henrycooper3431 That too!!! The power needs of those guns is insane.

[@Nidhoggrr]

Besides the insane cost and power consumption that the rebels couldn't afford, the other massive issue is manpower. It takes around 7500 people to effectively crew a Venator...... Then you have to fill that Venator with ships, crew for those ships, people to repair those ships, and people to fight the ground wars........ We are talking around 15-20k people on one ship...... And all it would take to wipe them all out is a single star destroyer. The other secondary issue is that they would have no facilities large enough to service something like a Venator short of flying it to Mon Cal who are equipped to work on it either. In a normal war Venators are a passable ship, but for the Rebels who are strapped for everything and mind bogglingly outnumbered, concentrating that many of their people on a single ship (if they could even find one and afford to maintain it) would have been an insanely stupid choice.

[@1hybodus]

I guess the Mon Cal ships do seem kinda plain from an outside perspective. Knowing that they're famous for their great shielding, I think the bulbous look kind of suites them and lets you know that they're the tanky ships you put front and center in your fleets. They also still have their in-universe quirks which I really like(acted as underwater buildings and luxury cruisers in peacetime, often have pools/nature areas inside, have/had tubes filled with water for Mon Calamarians to easily travel through the ship, etc.)

[@elijahsellers3727]

The MC80s used in the films are converted passenger/luxury liners. MC90s (built after the events of ROTJ) are purpose built for war, facing off against the Imperial Remnant and the various warlords.

[@DarkApostleNoek]

Question: If you made a Star Wars faction what would it be like? Say it is 10 systems big. What would be the style of Government? How much representation would there be? What is the military stance? What is the relations of Force users? What is the relations of Droids?

[@lordzykron5518]

This would be a good video

[@msmith1890]

@@lordzykron5518 let's up vote it.

[@minicle426]

A CIS remnant.

[@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis]

@@minicle426 yes!

[@ZackarySchejbalCODBO2RGM2]

For me, it be a democratic republic with some Communist ideas (AKA everyone is provided the basic necessities like health care, food rations, somewhere to live, ETC.) mixed into a capitalist and consumerism system (while everyone gets basic necessities, if they work hard enough they can earn more income to purchase more luxuries). I would also have Governors in each planet determining for their individual planets, however making a routinely report to the other planet systems of the planet status. Representation I'd say everyone has a voice to speak. However, laws and bills will be voted upon by majority than the minority. Again, everyone has a voice. But with creating laws and bills, Governors will listen to the billions on each planet compared to a loud 20 people. Military stance would be neutral standing within wars unless one attacks within the 10 systems from the outside, which will have all systems unite to combat the opponent. Captured systems will be taken under our territory, however captured POWs will be given trials and depending on the severity could range from community service to death. Military will also utilize anything from AT-TEs and droidekas used in the Clone Wars to even AT-ATs and Y-Wings from the Galactic Civil War. Relation to force users would be neutral unless attacked by a force user without provocation. Even then, just because one force user attacked the innocent population doesn't mean all other force users should be punished for one's actions. Sith and jedi before making residence must sign a contract stating not to attack innocents unless they wish to risk death. I'd even have force users in the military ranks if possible. Relation with droids? I'd be open for droids to be used by people if they can afford it. Ranging from gonk droids to even B2 battle droids if the people can afford them. I'd even encourage use of battle droids within the military partnered with organic soldiers.

[@inductivegrunt94]

The Aggressor Class Star Destroyer is alot alike the Munificent Frigate but taken even further with how it has a massive Ion Cannon to fire first the an equally massive Plasma Cannon to fire after. Ion to knock out the shields and Plasma to demolish the weakened ship. So if you like the Munificent then you'll like the Aggressor too. It's even a Mandel Hypernautics like the Keldabe too so there's that going for it.

[@jquannjones]

“Need a really big Gun?” That ship is my favourite from the Zann Consortium. Literally the go win ships if you had the protected.

[@inductivegrunt94]

@@jquannjones Running a few Aggressors with a few Vengeances and Keldabes is the win button for space battles as the Consortium. It's not my favorite ship, that beings the Keldabe but I never have a fleet with atleast a few of them in it for their firepower.

[@jquannjones]

@@inductivegrunt94 I agree. They work so well next to the Keldabe Battlehsips. It’s funny as they get stolen ships but they seem to be the best ones to compliment each other.

[@IANF126]

I was gonna mention this after he mentioned the Keldabe, similarly to the keldabe the vengeance frigate also has those fancy mass drivers, though i'm not sure if they are the same power level, in a much smaller package

[@StarWarsExpert_]

Hey does anyone here know where the first scene with the venators and lucrehulk of the video is?

[@LoneWolf20213]

between each navel force, the CIS seems to have the smartest builds

[@jacobgale4792]

I've always said a faction that used CIS ships and Rebel starfighters would be unstoppable

[@jaketheturkey7689]

@@jacobgale4792 and add imperial stormtroopers to that considering their effectiveness in lore (not on screen)

[@PeachDragon_]

​@@jaketheturkey7689clones are still far superior

[@jaketheturkey7689]

@@PeachDragon_ true. And they are more effectively brainwashed to do whatever they are told.

[@sirdogs8766]

I would love to see a video covering Imperial Intelligence in Legends to some capacity. Also, nice video.

[@EckhartsLadder]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXzNk2lqbdp4ma8

[@xaleypoo4779]

Interdiction mines appear in the canon Thrawn trilogy too, used by the Grysks. It detects a ship in hyperspace, pulls it out, and then cloaks. When they interdict, they cloak turns off, because both can't be used at once. IIRC, Thrawn launched one into the ISD Firedrake.

[@vinayakkothari6162]

Virgin canon thrawn trilogy vs Chad old EU Thrawn trilogy

[@tacotown4598]

Another example of a specialized ship with personally is, also from the cis fleet, the lucrehulk class battleship. It was very tanky and had huge fighter capacity plus strong armament, but was pretty slow. Generally the core of any cis fleet.

[@Darkfyreofthezenith]

I particularly like how Lucrehulks felt more like mobile command posts on the order of a mobile island instead of something like an aircraft carrier the way the Venators were. Feels like the Republic and CIS had different design philosophies with the former focused on versatile multipurpose ships and the latter on special units and focused design. It works well with the Republic’s use of individual, thinking clones that were technically the same but filled different roles, as opposed to the CIS’ use of droids with more variants and clear designations based on design.

[@rexlumontad5644]

Rebels when they see Clone Wars-era weapons, vehicles, ships, equipment and armor of Republic and CIS for grabs: *"It's free real estate."*

[@RJALEXANDER777]

All this talk about the pros and cons of different Star Wars starships makes me really wish there was something similar to a WWII battleship. Imagine something designed to be as similar as possible as an Iowa scaled up to the size of an ISD. Complete with three triple super-heavy turbolaser batteries. Would immediately be one of the best ships in the galaxy.

[@TheShogun47]

Or something similar to the famous Japanese battleship, the Yamato.

[@RJALEXANDER777]

@@TheShogun47 A kind of space battleship Yamato, if you will? Sounds awesome.

[@boblaryson3621]

@@RJALEXANDER777 then it becoming a sitting duck for bombers

[@quox3987]

Mirror the design on both the bottom and top, 3 turrets with 3 super-heavy turbo-lasers on the top and bottom to avoid blind spots. Have the bridge on top but where it would be mirrored on bottom would instead be the hangar bay, but a small one only for shuttles, scout craft, and emergency interceptors.

[@samspeed6271]

It would give the opportunity for proper battle line formations of ships. Imagine turning your 5 battleship line ahead formation broadside to bring their combined 80 or 90 guns to bear on that one enemy as you cross in front of his battle line... It would be terrifying for the poor sod on the receiving end.

[@TheWingland]

This video makes me think of a ship that I’ve thought up for a fanfiction idea I have. The FF focuses on a large galactic war between the empire and a Jedi order that has been rebuilt in secret over the 20 years between the origina and prequel trilogies. One of the sips I thought up for the good guys was a 5 kilometer battle cruiser that has an axial SPHA laser that when charged and instantly drop the shields of a star destroyer, or blow a star destroyer apart if unshilded. It’s not a super laser as it won’t vaporize a star destroyer even if unshielded, more like punch a huge hole in it or blow it apart like the munificent isn’ the opening scene of Revenge of the Sith.

[@walterhaider869]

The empire using interdiction mines makes a lot of sense because it counters the hit and run style warfare the rebels used, forcing them into a prolonged fight. The rebels could also use them to tie up near by empire vessels a few systems over from their target giving them a larger window of time before the empire called in reinforcements.

[@carlosgutierrez3918]

This right here is why tge CIS is such an awsome faction. It was never a generic 1 size fit's all fleet. CIS ships tell little stories in how they opperate. The recusent is a giant droid that only know's foward and violents. The lukrahalt was a basically a giant bimbilling carrier And the providence was the true commanding ship's that were jack's if all trade but very high value target

[@samschellhase8831]

Also shown in the battle of Coruscant is the SPHA-T mounted in the hangar bay of a Venator I wish we saw that in TCW, but it was also very cool to see it just obliterate a Munificent. In fact, I’d love to see a video on them, and why they’re not as common

[@burnttoast26]

This is why I love Halo's human ship design. Build a huge railgun, strap engines and crew quarters to it. Kinda like the A-10 Warthog as well. Simple, but effective.

[@jorenvanderark3567]

Did those ships have as many friendly fire incidents as the A10?

[@AXStryker]

@@jorenvanderark3567 Only if you're British.

[@amysargent4237]

Talking about ships with heavy Turbolasers, and the fact that you mentioned The Peltast-Class Star Destroyer, what about The Aggressor-Class used by The Zann Consortium? Which ship (Peltast, or Aggressor) would win a one on one with the other? #AskEck

[@josesanchezrodriguez1783]

A video would certainly be insteresting but you can actually do that battle in game now that they added back the Aggresor to Thrawn's Revenge

[@vitiate5093]

Your mom is the answer

[@amysargent4237]

@@vitiate5093 To quote Tensen from Legend of Korra: "DON'T BRING MY MOTHER INTO THIS!!!"😲😤😬😡😠 What the frick does my MOTHER have to do with ANY of this?!? Sorry, I was just watching someone reacting to the whole "Will Smith Slapping Chris Rock" thing from a few months back, and some of his fiery rantings on that was rubbing off on me. Seriously, though, why bring my mother (Who is DEAD btw!) up when I'm asking simply about two ships that function like big sniper ships going against each other in single combat? It's a very cheap shot with a joke of rotten/💩 taste! What honorless saps even find that "joke" funny at all ANYWAY?! Again, excuse me for my reaction, but I get offended about my mother being brought up so unnecessarily, irrelevantly, and rudely, like that. I don't find it funny like you apparently do.

[@USSEnterpriseA1701]

Good to see I'm not the only one that remembers the Aggressor-Class. I love those things.

[@nicovalentine9326]

Personally I'd love to hear just more lore in general. You always do.such a amazing job going over it all so it's always enjoyable to hear. Out of everything I'd love a VS video personally but also I've always been wanting some more info on Old Republic Era things.

[@aaronbates4848]

100% Star Wars does some Old Republic stuff, you should check him out.

[@montythecat5410]

The CIS is my favourite faction and I’m sad that they were never going to win 😢

[@s.31.l50]

The spirit of CIS lived on through the Rebellion. Wouldn’t surprise me if Rebels used Munificent frigates, since they also used Providence and Lucrehulks.

[@juggernaut7_]

Down with the Republic lackeys! Support our boys in beige!

[@volatile_gaming9475]

@@juggernaut7_ oh i wish i was in the land of Raxus

[@MariOmor1]

@@s.31.l50 they actually did use Separatist ships in the EU continuity! A good example is actually one of their attacks on the Death Star (before the Battle of Yavin) where they used a Lucrehulk carrier containing 500 X-wings to attempt and destroy it

[@captaincapitalis1205]

Capital ships being able to out range the enemy is one of the major justifications for capital ships in the first place. It’s under utilized in Star wars

[@mihajlo961x]

3:32 - Hey Ecks, another example is in Battlefront 2, the mission where Inferno Squad has to help the docked ISD fight off the Rebel/NR assault on the Fondor Shipyards.

[@ShockwaveTheLogical]

3:27 Theres another example of the ISDs oxtuple turrets kicking ass. Found in Battlefront 2, when Moff Rayhte's ISD Dauntless is leaving Fondor, she fires a salvo at an MC80 and 5 shots is enough to destroy the ship. Or at least knock it out of action.

[@TenguTie]

What do you think would have been different if the Empire had chosen the A-wing over the TIE fighter, would the increase in survivability have off set the cost? Would the A-wing have made up for the Empires lack of point defense unlike the TIE, or would there have just been too few of them? Also what might an A-series of fighters have looked like, A-bomber, A-advanced, and so on.

[@mattd5857]

I always really liked that the Munificent had that "main gun" setup. It really gave the impression that the ship was a real threat and when deployed well could punch well above its weight. Sadly most Clone Wars media doesn't really give them an appropriate bite, instead just using them as the weakest of the CIS navy to be cut through by the heroes with impunity.

[@StarScapesOG]

So what you are saying is have more if not mostly specialized ships. That way battles are rarely just copy and paste of each other, where ships have streangths and weaknesses that are more exaggerated and more broad than "weak against giant swarms of star fighters".

[@pyronuke4768]

5:23 in the first Wraith Squadron book the protagonists run afoul of something called an Empion Mine. I really like the idea of these things. Basically you set one up on a vector you think your enemy is going to arrive/exit from, just outside the system limits. When the mine detects an incoming hyperspace disturbance it activates a short range interdiction field and sends out an alert to the mine's layer. When the target is pulled out of hyperspace the mine hits it with a quick one-two burst of an ion blast to knock out the shields followed by an EMP to fry the electrical circuits. The intruder(s) are left adrift in space, and all you have to do is swing by and pick them up. I really love these things. The only way I can think of to make it even better is if you add an IFF device so you could lure an enemy into one without worrying about triggering it yourself.

[@lightspeedvictory]

The Aggressor class and the Onager class would definitely count towards being “Munificent style vessels”. Also, the either Pellaeon class or the Imperious class Star destroyer (can’t remember which) did carry interdictor mines Lore ship Versus video request: Resurgent vs. Starhawk Tie Striker vs. New Republic V-Wing World Devastator vs. Vong Worldship Tie Silencer vs. X-83 Twintail Tie Silencer vs. Tie Defender (legends version) Keldabe vs. ISD II MC90 vs. Nebula class star destroyer Nebula class vs. Pellaeon class Majestic class vs. Bothan Assault Cruiser FOTR’s Mandator II portrayal vs. Subjugator Praetor vs. Subjugator EAWX: TR’s Mediator portrayal vs. Resurgent Starhawk vs. Bulwark MK III #askeck what warships, asides from dreadnoughts, did the Mon Cal have during the clone wars?

[@sumukhvmrsat6347]

The Quarren Made ones I guess , Providence and Malevolence

[@Twuggus]

Need more tie defender content! Also I feel like the Onager is on the line between super weapon and heavy forward gun style ship.

[@lightspeedvictory]

@@Twuggus one could argue that the Torpedo Sphere is the same, as both were designed as planetary siege weapons

[@elijahsellers3727]

@@sumukhvmrsat6347 the Quarren also helped build Munificients and Recusants

[@sumukhvmrsat6347]

@@elijahsellers3727 no , They Didi Made them, But The Munificent Is a Trade Federation Design , Recusant Is go Though

[@BierBart12]

The Aggressor destroyer was probably the one he was thinking of, not really the Keldabe(which was a more well-rounded capital ship, no spinal mounted superweapons). The Aggressor was just a twin-linked array of one supermassive ion and a blaster cannon the length of an Imperial star destroyer. It's understandable why it was so rare. The sheer amount of tibanna gas to fuel those guns would've been prohibitively expensive for any faction that doesn't have the entire galactic market by the balls, like the Zann Consortium did. And even then, it'd be too much for prolonged warfare.

[@sinisterisrandom8537]

Wish we had more battle breakdowns. Since seeing these tool I've never seen before make me curious what is possible;e.

[@Thrawns_Revenge]

Eck: Discussing frontal facing heavy weapon ships. Onager-class: *sobbing in the corner alone*

[@dantc2403]

The Venators got their "big gun" when Anakin suggested placing an SPHA in the lower hangar. We saw one of those take out a Munificent in the Ep. 3 opening clip shown here.

[@gsthomas187]

Long time fan of your work and fellow Canadian here, I have always wanted to hear more about Mazer tech. How it works, if we have relevant lore, something like that. Thanks man!

[@jaxonblack8021]

Man I’m always loved the look of these ships. I would love to see a vid exploring these ships and their legends variants.

[@harveywilde6781]

Awww...... I actually kinda liked the VIctory-II frigate design, it looked so awesome. And kinda wish it was shown on screen.

[@TheWingland]

Fleet battle between Grand admiral Thrawn vs. Ender Wiggin Each one has an equal sized fleet with equally capable subordinates, and since Ender is from a different universe each has equal understanding of the technology they’re using. They are in command of Star Wars vessels. Pick a famous fleet of your choosing I’d suggest death squadron

[@letteropener3119]

Does Ender get the MD device?

[@TheWingland]

@@letteropener3119 no one of the combatants does not get a planet killing weapon that can be carried on any capital ship. Honestly as much as I love Enders game the MD device is one of the most comically OP weapons In sci-fi.

[@deriznohappehquite]

Admiral Trench wins.

[@dsdy1205]

@@TheWingland I mean, the book made it very clear that the MD device is not OP if the enemy does some spreading of their units. Its use case against the Formic homeworld, which can't spread itself apart, is: a. not something Ender would do if he knew this was real life, which he does I'm assuming b. only possible because Ender had previously fought inch for bloody inch to get a tiny fleet to that point c. not even a disadvantage, if the Empire is so comfortable with destroying its own planets. Palpatine would be beside himself knwoing that TIE fighters could be equipped with Death Star equivalent guns

[@boblaryson3621]

@@TheWingland thrawn would win. He has a similar level of strategic thinking to ender but doesn't have the moral drawbacks.

[@owlwaifu4949]

Yknow I have an idea introdictor mines Essentially use them for a thrawn pincer or essentially use the mines to have a set a point in space so you come out at that point, maybe use them to get the drop on an enemy fleet by sending in a smaller fleet ahead and launching said mines before jumping the main fleet in essentially right on top of the enemy positon

[@HawaiianForgeStudios]

UNSC ships are this idea taken to the extreme when the ship is built around the gun. Really wished we could see more sniper type or cannon focused ships in star wars that are used to outrange or cripple enemy fleets.

[@iskenuz]

The Onager Class Star Destroyer out of Armada (FFGs big brother to X Wing) had an axial superlaser that's worth mentioning. Its not an eclipse, it's just a sniper that adds a very interesting dynamic to the game by giving you a sniper style weapon of heavy damage coupled to a narrow field of fire. It's a cool design and a lot of fun to play on the board.

[@sherrykathman3309]

The Aggressor-class Star Destroyer is probably my favorite Star Wars ship design. I love the main gun. Fires a ion blast, then a heavy plasma blast. And its super devastating when used for orbital bombardment too.

[@JoshuaBenitezNewOrleans]

Aawww, I love when you intro with your name. Love the critical analysis of super heavy cannons

[@nerdwatch1017]

One of the best syfy weapons I love and feel would beat just about everything in the Star Wars universe is the only 36 inches long drone weapons that are both projectile/energy based missile!! They are capable of passing through energy shields because of there ability to match the frequency of that shield!! Then with there energy source envelopes them making them eat through ships hulls!! Usually they can make a couple passes through a ship before there energy source is depleted!! Then they detonate!!! I feel only just 2-4 of these drones would be able to severely damage or cripple a ESD!! And with around 1-250 they could cripple the Death Star!!

[@sgtflintlock6904]

the Munificent has always been one of my favorite Capital Ship designs in Star Wars. Mostly because of the Big Ass Gun. Glad to see it getting some love. :)

[@ARC--ij5oz]

Awesome video. I think you bring up some good points about standard starship weapon configuration. Can’t believe you forgot to mention Zann’s aggressor class though lmao

[@Aeonearies]

A lil bit of sci fi terminology: Usually those large singular or dual weapons are called spinals since they typically need to run the whole length of the ship, or the ship is built around them, yk hence the term “spine”. I do agree that they would offer a lot of variety in terms of space combat, and its upsetting to see so little spinal centric ships in canon. Spinals are also not a concept just related to Star Wars either, which I find neat. There are the MAC cannons in halo and, for a more obscure reference, the wave motion gun from Space Battleship Yamato.

[@PokemonHaloFan]

Ever since I got the incredible cross sections book for Episode III when it first came out I've loved the Banking Clan Frigate. Always just seemed like such a practical and efficient vessel for it's size.

[@AlexanderRM1000]

Brett Devereaux (in "Where does my main battery go?" and "Starships in Silhouette") made an excellent point that real warships, from the Trireme to a battleship or aircraft carrier, consist almost entirely of guns and engines (counting everything from ammo storage and flight decks as part of "guns") with all other components like crew quarters crammed in wherever they fit. He noted one of the few SF tropes that usually fits this is the ship with a giant laser or mass driver all the way down the middle. Contrast the Star Destroyer which has a big central bulge at the back which according to the official guidebook seems to be used for... not much. I agree it also could make things more interesting from a writing perspective, good point about how most Star Wars ships just emit lasers at each other while remaining roughly stationary.

[@Finn-rr4hc]

The Munificent class is my favorite Star Wars ship in terms of aesthetics.

[@asaschuemann9545]

Ships being built around a single large gun or a couple of large guns is a valid concept in my opinion, as you can still strap smaller weapons to that ship's hull whilst also having the big gun or guns for long range, high damage shots. This reminds me a lot of The Expanse with their Railguns and Halo with MAC Cannons

[@vincediscombe7360]

Honestly we see a lot more of this in the 40k setting- almost every ship going has something heavy mounted on the prow, be it a simple forward Lance or Bombardment Cannon to the the almost-superweapon Nova Cannon. I've always really enjoyed seeing this idea on the Munificent and Recusant, and often wondered why more Starwars ship designs didn't incorporate this concept

[@brokenursa9986]

To make a comparison to real-world naval vessels, there's a ship type called a monitor (after the USS Monitor from the American Civil War) that would be used similarly to a Munificent. A typical monitor is a light frigate-sized ship that is typically equipped with one or two high-powered cannons, usually the same type of cannon that would be used in the main turret of a battleship or battlecruiser or at least a heavy cruiser, but the rest of the monitor is very lightly armored. They would form the back ranks of the fleet and provide long-range fire support, but monitors were generally not meant to engage enemy ships up close or unsupported

[@Lahiss]

Star Wars ship combat really is just the Age of Sail, but with bigger ship sand in space.

[@zacpatproductions2052]

Loving the return to form!

[@swordsman1_messer]

Something I always thought; if the idea of Star Wars ships is largely inspired by real world navies, how come we don’t see scaled up versions of ships like the Maurader, Broadside, DP-20 etc, where their focus isn’t on gun duels, but delivering capital ship killing ordnance?

[@lordzykron5518]

Victory one star destroyer is one example, invincible class old republic ship is another. If you want to get deep into it the Tyrant Battlecruiser is another, and was remade by Fractylsponge, but only the Victory gets any resemblance of a spotlight.

[@DIEGhostfish]

That would be more the Victory 1, or the Torpedo Sphere, or fan interpretation of the Invincibles.

[@ts8411]

Love the ideas behind future space combat. These kind of weapons never get talked about since space battles seem to devolve into melee style open brawls without formation (like the battle of Coruscant in the third movie). Would be nice to see a video on how X weapon would have effected some battle if it was present. (If you don't want to create your own scenario)

[@vic5015]

In Master of Orion 3, they have 2 mounts like this: spinal and axial. Small firing arc, slow to fire and recharge and take up a *lot* of the available hull space but does extreme damage. Best suited probably to Starbases, planetary defenses, and something very nimble that can easily maneuver the gun into optimal firing position.

[@d-man9921]

MC80 on the front, Munificent in the back I know different eras but they would make a nice combo

[@Cipher00007]

I’ve been playing X4 with the Starwars Interworlds Mod and the Munificent and it has the forward Heavy Turbo Lasers firing right after a pair of equally large Ion Cannons as an amazing 1 - 2 Punch. I often forgo flying a Bigger brawler type ship like the ISD-II in favour of the Munificent because I can comfortably sit in the back lines and Snipe at enemy Capitals because of this.

[@Thegaming_husky]

Loved the intro with the dogs.

[@Kyzen_Wrell]

It’s why I loved the design of the Corellian Destroyer in the Awakening of the Rebellion mod for EAW. It was a dedicated artillery ship that could outrange almost anything.

[@heldire]

This could just be a long shot of similarities and also explained that they used an extra to represent Mace Windu instead of paying SLJ to appear as an out of focus background character... below time stamps are for Disney+ editions so may be extended versions. In Phantom Menace at 2:06:05-10 (behind Plo Kluun as they walk down the shuttle ramp) and in Revenge of the Sith at 34:35 as Anakin enters the breifing chamber he was late for, could this/these individuals be the mysterious figure in the ember as seen in Ep4 of Kenobi at 20:17?

[@Zakvadr1995]

In the Thrawns Revenge mod for ST EaW I love the Peltast in pairs or trios with a good line of medium to heavy ships to provide cover! Actual strategy is needed with some of the ships in that mod.

[@jenniferstewarts4851]

its one thing thats always bugged me for star wars. We see ships firing "streams" of missiles but we never really see, a corvette or destroyer sized ship with a heavy forward "torpedo" load. A fast ship, boxy, with lots of point defense lasers, quad laser mounts, maybe anti-fighter concussion missile launchers... But who's main armament was like 8-16 BIG... HEAVY... torpedoes... The ships job is to screen other ships from fighters BUT if need be it can make a heavy torpedo run to finish off a crippled ship, or if a group of them make a run in a wolf pack, they could take down a star destroyer.... BUT don't carry a lot of ammo for them, because of the size of these heavy proton missiles, the ship might only carry 3-4 salvo's... or even just 1-2 salvo's for a corvette sized ship. so the captain has to think.. where the missiles will do the most good on the first attack run, how to withdraw and then how to buy time, maybe 2-5 minutes for the tubes to all reload if it empties all of its tubes to take down 1 target. Heck, picture if these ships also could lay out a "screen" of retro-reflective hot partials... that block visual, radar, and IR sensors... but being space, they will spread out over time dissipating. a space "smoke screen" to cover their retreat, or to block line of sight between friendly and hostile ships. Essentially an actual "destroyer" in space.

[@IANF126]

when i get a chance to control my armament in space games i do sometimes like to make a torpedo boat, basically exactly what you said, a small ship loaded with torpedoes that might try to do hit and run attacks or be somewhat sacrificial.

[@jenniferstewarts4851]

@@IANF126 Yep, when you combine them on a ship armed with several "anti-fighter" weapons. and you have a ship that works as both an escort, and an attack ship. making the ship narrow, allows for bow in attack runs with a small profile, where by it dumps its missiles, then turns away quickly...or if neutonian physics are in play does a vertical thrust keeping its nose pointed at the target ship while it flys over it, maintaining its delta-v til it can begin its breaking manouver on the other side of the ship with its narrowest target profile still pointed at it, its own PDC's protecting it from return fire of missiles.

[@Praeses04]

Developing fewer, but larger guns on battleships that are more destructive/have longer range is also a logical progression. The entire revolution of battleship design which began with HMS Dreadnaught was predicated on this feature, and it basically made all battleships built prior to them obsolete...it would certainly make star wars battles more interesting and visually exciting

[@porakiyadraekojin3390]

I find this video rather interesting and reminds me of my own ideas for a similar ship. I always found it weird that we have ships like the Interdictor class Star Destroyer with these huge gravity well generators, and all they are used for are preventing jumps to hyper space. They would SOOOO much more interesting if they had a pair of rail guns where the slugs are launched by the gravitational forces of the gravity well generators. It would give the Interdictor class Star Destroyer so much more utility. Imagine just having one of these hanging at the back of the fleet, keeping the enemy from fleeing as well as launching these slugs out from an immense distance!

[@barnmaddo]

The star destroyers wedge shaped design in theory allows good turret coverage while also allowing all the firepower to be focused forwards. In practice that doesn't seem to be the case and instead the guns have very limited fields of fire and favor broadsides. In comparison something like the mon calamari ships are shaped so that at most half the turrets can fire in any one direction.

[@karlwolfe614]

One thing I have noticed in descriptions for the ISD, Imperial I & II, is that they have 4 quintuple heavy turbo lasers port and starboard. How many times have we ever seen these used? They have direct access to the main ship power plant so in theory are limited in rate of fire only by cooling technology. I cannot think of a time when I have seen them used in the movies. They would make the ISDs the equivalent of an A10 Warthog.

[@ClhCgu45]

Love these newest episodes!!

[@keysontrains538]

It’s a sort of Star Wars design quirk when you start to approach the size of capitals how weapon size stops scaling with the ships and instead just becomes more numerous. Even though there’s a lot of inspiration to WW2, larger ships seem to take more inspiration from the age of sail with the spread out many smaller guns sorta vibe. Though that is sort of challenged by ISD’s though even that is to a limited extent. Personally it’s why I love CIS design or smaller scale ships because the turrets are actual large prominent features and it makes the ship more coherent rather than “big shape with many guns”. Not saying I dislike capitals, but there has to be some sort of technological barrier where the required amount of infrastructure to support larger guns exponentially skyrockets to the point where only dedicated super weapons or ground installations or ships crafted purely around them are worth it. At least until the Xyston or whatever it’s spelled threw that out of the window. Ugh.

[@Ushio01]

Honestly building a large ship with only small guns only applies to one type of warship carriers. Whether it's aircraft carriers, helicopter carriers or troop/vehicle carriers they all only have smaller armament. So basically all Star Wars capital ships are huge carriers which don't seem to carry much. Look at an ISD in the new canon it carries just 72 fighters that's it and they aren't even big fighters like the jet fighters of today but closer to small early WW2 era fighters in size. For it's size it should be carrying closer to a thousand plus easily.

[@Zand3rParkour]

This is why I love the Aggressor-class Destroyer and Onager. Specialized "artillery" like ships that complement a greater fleet.

[@minisoda9542]

This reminds me of the French battleships where they had all of their main guns in the front and could only really attack from the front

[@calebbarnhouse496]

What I really wish we saw more of is 2 part, ground to surface weapons, a lot of the time it feels like they are 2 diffrent battlefields rather then 2 parts if the same battle, surface fire would be great for having ships feel like they do have threats outside of other ships, that and SPHAs, they are really cool, and the even outside of firing at capital ships we just don't see them often, would love to see them used like the ATTE were on the asteroids in that one episode of the clone wars, though it's be really cool to see an acclamator make a boarding of a lukerhold after it's been damaged and had it's escape pods sabotaged

[@ichmich9324]

There are some of these ships that own a big main weapon or are just a big flying gun. Not mentioned that I know spontaneous too are the Aggressor class destroyer, Vengeance class frigate, a yuuzhan vong ship (sadly I forgot the name), missile ships like the broadside class or the marauder class, some in the Tie experimental series and the Tie brute. And some that needs to be more detailed to maybe count like the Hapan battle dragon, the rebel torpedo ship, nova class

[@raptodino1998]

Ahhh I can't believe you mentioned the keldabe class but forgot to mention the aggressor class. That was the first ship that came to mind when you mentioned designs centered around massive guns. FoC was great with it's more unique ship designs though I can barely recognize them since I play with absolute corruption mod now

[@igncom1]

I love to think that most of starwars is set in a WW1 or Crimean War setting. Thus the ships are more like pre-dreadnoughts with primary, secondary, tertiary and even more tiers of weapon for every different kind of target, rather then the dreadnought's big main battery for use on anything it can target, even if it's overkill.

[@hildemel]

It always was one of those weird things about star wars that ships didn't have large weapons more often. It's like picturing WW2 battleships battling it out with only their smallest guns.

[@howplaythisgame4488]

Always love your vids Eck

[@goodcitizen477]

Heya. Nice video as always. Suggestion for future video series. Life of a ship from construction to destruction. Like Executor, Millennium Falcon etc.

[@fightingdreamer123]

I always thought star wars navies should get the HMS Dreadnought treatment, where we see a lotta smaller guns compared to ship size lose to a few bigger guns--the evolution of battleships in real life. Current turbolazers are small compared to ships (think cannon guns on pirate like ships). Future star wars guns shiuld be more representative of large battleship guns we see later on, with say 12 guns in 4 turrets we see on, say, the Iowa Class. Its the natural evolution of guns

[@skydude7682]

I had an idea pof a shield array ship that would deploy twelve nodes that can move independently to allow generation of a directional shield that could help absorb volleys directed at the sensitive ships in the fleet while being able to open small crossections in the shield web to allow return fire. I think it would pair perfectly with these.

[@Sphendrana]

I want more: lore, ship specs, and bring the intro back.

[@DanBen07]

Yous said at the end "let me know if there's something you want to see me talk about." Aerial landing platform (Galactic Empire)/First Order landing platform. I 1st sew pictures of them on Google & like what I saw and was interested to know more. I don't have access to the comic there in and I've not seen anyone do a video of about the 2 on KZbin.

[@tomcunniff1512]

I feel like star wars just needs more terrifying battle droids in general, it makes so much more sense after observing the combat doctrine of most factions

[@samspeed6271]

An interesting video. I really like the extended lore and theory videos more than news. I think the CIS had a very good idea with the Munificent and Recusant having a large main gun along the centreline. Moreover, I think that if this line of thought had continued, the designs would've been far more interesting. The thing is that Star Wars ships go for lots of small guns rather than a few heavy hitters, which means that you can cover the ship with guns. If the ships had a few heavy guns in turrets, we could have proper formations. Battle lines of ships going broadside to bring their guns to bear on the enemy battle line. (This would happen with a centerline gun battery). Ships could have wing turrets, so their battle line can go for a line abreast instead of line ahead to engage the enemy. Actually, the Munificent and Recusant would support a line abreast formation. So many possibilities, but so few used.

[@davidwood3751]

I liked the empion mines mentioned in wraith squadron by aaron allston for this reason It was a crafty idea. Amd the x wing series also made mention of the victory ckass star destroyer having a heap of proton torpedo tubes making it very dangerous for its size

[@Sephiroth144]

Empire Pro-Tip: Use Probe Droids to carry and deploy interdiction mines at range; have an Interdiction Mine/Torpedo aboard every TIE Bomber.

[@Exospray]

I feel like the main problem with the Munificent's prow-cannon is it basically has to pentrate the shields and destory its target in its first pass before the battle turns into a broadside slugging match where the ship is at a disadvantage. The problem is it seems like star wars shields generally prevent that from happening. Ironically a lot of legend later new republic and legacy era designs like the MC140 seem to return to this idea of heavy frontal firing arcs to win the battle in a single pass.

[@gligar45]

Reminds me of the Aggressor Class Star Destroyer from Legends, and the Game Forces of Corruption. It was essentially built around its main duel cannons, An Iron Pulse and a Plasma shot, fired in sequence to deal maximum damage. Its honestly one of my Favourite Ships from legends, although It looks nothing like most other Star Destroyers, altough that could be explained that it was never built by the Empire, but its designs stolen by the Crime Lord Tyber Zann, so it is possible the design was heavily modified to fall in line with the other ships in his fleet before being manfuactured.

[@joshpeterson2451]

The same cross sections book says the Venator-class can divert all of its reactor energy output to its 8 heavy dual turbolaser batteries if necessary, which means it easily outguns pretty much all non-dreadnought Separatist ships. A Venator would shred a Munificent, because the Venator has a far larger energy output from its reactor: 3.6 x 10^24 W vs 2.07 x 10^23 W, all for about the same price (59 million credits vs 57 million credits).

[@roadhouse6999]

My own idea for a sci-fi universe has lots of different weapons being used by different species. There's use of gunpowder weapons, use of railguns, use of actual lasers, use of Star Wars-esque "lasers", and even use of directed biological weapons.

[@luisdominguez2048]

I have in my mind the wave motion gun from “space battleship Yamamoto” mounted on the “Invisible Hand.”

[@robertbarrows6687]

Hey Eckhartsladder, can you do a video explaining the speed of ships in Star Wars? Since people think that atmospheric speed = space speed during Versus battles. Would be a good way to analyze the Megalight unit especially with your vast amount of knowledge on Wars.

[@thebighurt2495]

The spinal-mounted Turbolaser reminds me of the MAC in Halo. This pleases me.

[@kinorris1709]

Someone in the comments posted something interesting, talking about a fanfic that explains the absurd power level these guns were stated to have. Supposedly, the guns are capable of outputting such power, but the fanfic goes with the idea that it would completely wreck the power grid, and the worst case scenario is the ship hypermatter reactor overloading and the ship basically nuking itself. Credit to Lokabrenna for bringing this up. From this explanation (that is of course, fanfic, but kinda makes sense) I can actually see a scenario where it would be used at full power. A desperate strike with a lone ship/2 or 3 ships, operating heavily undermanned, carrying a few fighters and bombers as well as 1 high power warhead each, against a large space station that has heavy defenses and a fleet to protect it. Sure, you lose 3 small ships and anyone/thing on-board, 3 frigates that will, in firing at full power, likely avoid capture upon reactor overload, and you trade them for crippling/destroying a massive space station. Kinda like an evolution of fireships. The fighters and bombers deploy, the ships basically nuke themselves to cripple the station, then the fighters and bombers move in to do as much extra damage as possible. The demoralising effect of seeing 3 small vessels essentially perform a suicide run and 1 shot your station's shields and likely cripple it would be massive. The warheads are for 2 purposes: if the ships do not go boom, either detonate the warheads to avoid capture, or deliver a final blow to a crippled target if enough damage is done that you could hold out long enough for reinforcements. Just an idea.

[@idkshrug]

My question is this: Were there any ships that were completely manned by droids and had super weapons, but didn't keep any air or life support stuff inside? I feel like that makes it impossible for people to sneak onboard and sabotage the super weapon at the very least

[@Gravemindefiler]

That is a good question honestly, why did the CIS utilize life support on droid piloted ships? It would make sense to just have the bridge be life support as well as a jettison able life boat but having it through out means easy access by jedis and clone troopers.

[@idkshrug]

@@Gravemindefiler exactly, I feel like many episodes of the Clone Wars were them sneaking around CIS ships and bases that wouldn't need life support if they got rid of 1 or 2 people

[@rebelsj2159]

Battle breakdowns, give us a classic clone wars battle or something interesting, those r my fav vids

[@nobleman9393]

Video Idea: What If the Flood in Halo CE was replaced by the Replicators from StarGate SG-1.