StormGate's Tier 3 Vanguard Unit - The Graven

What do you think about the Graven? Strong? Weak? Good unit design, or would you have gone in a different direction?
I'm probably LIVE right now, check me out:
→Twitch: / artosis
New video every 3rd day!
Let's reach 1000 likes!
If you want to support Artosis even more, become a member!
/ @artosistv
Editor: / @invisiblemenproduction
Music: / @jonasos3

[@ed21x]

artosis being warm, kind, and gentle sound so foreign to me.

[@Eldinarcus]

Can’t wait for them to announce the Gattlecruiser next

[@moth7579]

With Mamato cannon i suppose?

[@SuperHopsie]

That really made me laugh!

[@Bloody0range]

The infiltrate ability seems OP as hell. Even if it cancels stealth, sneaking 4 of them into an enemy base and just killing it instantly before the opponent notices anything is just stupid. I think it should either deal 25% of current health rather than max, or be limited to 1 use per structure. It simply shouldn't be able to kill buildings completely (besides defensive structures of course).

[@the1337fleet]

I think the stealth doesn't need to be nerfed, but it could have less severe consequences to the other player, or something like the graven dies. Stealth will be a good way to keep the other player on their toe to watch out for harassment tactics and keep observers handy

[@ldragodestroy4]

@@the1337fleet wait the Graven doesn't die upon use? What happens to it? It seems to go poof.

[@lordhelix1458]

the therium cost offsets it imo. that's 700 therium for 4 graven

[@cotonynaki800]

Feels like 3 units were cramped into one.

[@pigzard01]

Totally not overwatch Reaper with sc2 Reaper pistols and bombs that runs like Tracer that can cloak

[@Xenomorphin1]

@@pigzard01 No. It's a SC2 reaper mixed with an SC2 ghost mixed with a SC2 stalker. No idea where your comparison to the O game comes from

[@ashitaka8633]

Clearly a sc2 rip off.

[@giuseppebonatici7169]

@@Xenomorphin1 don't forget the bonus atk speed and speed like a stimmed marine and a unit recall similar but it is certainly something different. and in a vacuum, probably the most OP unit ever in a RTS. just imagine stealth demolishing a complete base, stealing tons of resources, with an instant global recall. the only thing that lacks is an automated uninstall of the game for the opponent to reduce damage to the hardware xD.

[@XerrolAvengerII]

Gramped into one*

[@Alt_Sf6]

man with gun

[@sataman9205]

he shoots

[@ashitaka8633]

So a reaper/dt rip off.

[@tkay42]

invisible man with gun xD

[@Mr.Bambogea]

all that sounds op as foook ; in sc2 terms ,it will be a combination between DT + reaper

[@bigalharris]

Remember when they nerfed reapers to slow down how fast they could destroy buildings?

[@markoliimatainen2565]

Also add mix with spy from red alert. Spy in red alert if it would infiltrate enemy refinery, you would steal some of the enemy money. Im happy that they are also taking notes from good abilities of the c&c series. I think spy unit as a consept is underrated. In terms of gameplay i think this is going to be really fun unit to use. Also really annoying to deal with.

[@vincentauronward347]

Aaah calm bedtime story script reading Arty makes me so uncomfortable in a way I can't describe

[@scuttlebum]

Crazy how being straightforward and informative leads tools feel that way.

[@lordhelix1458]

Makes sense if you read arty's entry in the SCP wiki

[@Hyperion602]

I withhold full judgement until having the opportunity to play with it, but at face value I dislike that the unit just gets out for free if they successfully get off a sabotage. That is more egregious than the ability to channel the ability in stealth to me. If my detection is on the way to the enemy Graven and it arrives just slightly after the cast went off, I get punished twice: the damage to the structure + the bonus effect depending on what the structure was, and the inability to trade the enemy graven away so the opponent at least loses *something*.

[@Schrodinger_]

Yeah, this seems obvious to me. If you're putting an expensive unit on the line to do a really strong attack, you need to be risking it. Same with ghosts doing a nuke. Otherwise there's no strategic tradeoff here. Why isn't this obvious to the devs?

[@xenophontis8178]

Agree that sabotage should not be channeled while in stealth, tho if i see correctly, the video footage makes it seem as if the Unit immediatly dies after sabotaging. So the enemy Graven is traded away by default

[@TheHUEZOX]

@@xenophontis8178 rewatch the video, Arty clearly states that the unit gets >TELEPORTED< back to base

[@Hyperion602]

@@xenophontis8178 Watch the video and listen to what Artosis says, the unit doesn't die, it is teleported to the nearest friendly structure.

[@xenophontis8178]

@@Hyperion602 oh yeah my bad, i take that back. Free recall is absolutely ridiculous. Useless comment on my end

[@bfors8498]

I really think these stormgate info videos need more sauce, it feels like an online training seminar

[@10Neon]

I got a strong "Dustin Browder narrating SC2 alpha unit announcements" vibe.

[@u1337ochka]

Mario's white sauce?

[@bfors8498]

@@u1337ochka honestly better than nothing

[@hypers829]

Feels like they had a bunch of ideas for different units, but decided to stick all of the ideas onto one unit.

[@awagnow]

their ideas are the starcraft 2 wiki page

[@moonasha]

@@awagnow ...none of the abilities this thing has besides the passive cloak comes from SC2. And the passive cloak is so generic it doesn't count.

[@Vert1986]

This unit seems kind of busted. Curious to see how much this gets nerfed at launch.

[@giuseppebonatici7169]

for what we know, this could be the most reasonable T3 unit of the game xD. but the numbers are too insane to survive launch. as they plan to make every unit viable to late game, this would mean that lancers, would have to have a way to close in and kill this anti light unit with infinite kite potential. so, I guess that late game lancers will become usain boltralisks and also tinylisks to compensate xD

[@daPawlak]

@@giuseppebonatici7169 I agree we need to wait for all t3 units to asses which is OP. Other then that, it should get nerfed if it becomes massed into main army instead of being harassment tool IMO

[@yyyy-uv3po]

When we say stealth, does it mean the other player can't see it like a DT, or just can't target it? Do ST have invisible units and detection btw?

[@markoliimatainen2565]

Stealth in this game works sameway as in sc. So very powerful. Ofcourse there is detection like dogs etc.

[@pknepps]

You can't see it. Though all enemies unstealth as soon as they attack, which is an improvement from sc2

[@hungmarin]

​@@markoliimatainen2565 is there any other unit which can detect besides the dogs?

[@bleep410]

the wings of liberty reaper returns even more broken

[@10Neon]

This unit is T3 so I guess the thinking is you really ought to have stuff to deal with it by the time it shows up

[@jackolanternsoup]

Wow in 30 years Artosis is going to turn into the Mr Rogers of gaming

[@ben-64]

But do they have a baseplate of pre-fabulated amulite? If not how will they prevent side fumbling?

[@Beater]

Seems way too complicated tbh. I predict at least half of these abilities will get removed before launch

[@bakemonoda890]

feels like Tanya, combined with the spy, and a dark templar with blink, so seems like a commando unit

[@DarkScreamGames]

so they're blink stalker ghosts.. which are also WC3 raiders. Great.

[@TorqC69]

lmao

[@denarte6986]

And overseer mixed with Chinese hackers from Generals

[@Yonny316]

When you're bad at games invisibility = invincibility

[@IIIlllllIlIlIllllIIIlllIIIll]

It’s like a ghost with blink, stim on kill, aoe damage and move speed reduction, and 4 can bomb a building or one can have set up debuffs. Seems pretty insane unless the dps per cost/supply is exceptionally bad as the base abilities seem super good.

[@AA-kb2vp]

Invisible Men are back - Deep down artosis is in pain

[@starithm]

Interesting abilities! :)

[@XYNTEN]

buddy got thicc thighs

[@CGI-Noob]

graven fandom incoming

[@Bagginsess]

it's a woman

[@lifenote1943]

Oh cool, a unit with an insane amount of burst damage and infinite escape. This must be so much fun to play against.

[@SoumyadeepChanda]

Did they surrender their socks for the sticky bomb?

[@DesignInDepth]

I dont think infiltrate should be able to kill a building. Maybe only allow it to be used on buildings over 25% max hp.

[@teachmehowtodoge1737]

That self-destruct is OP 😂

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

Seems like a balance nightmare that'll scare away casuals. Cool otherwise!

[@forsensfishbox]

super dt wow great design!

[@Erdbeerheld1]

So it's a stalker/Reaper/Ghost that steals ressources by planting a bomb? Sounds super OP :D

[@gongal]

Very cool

[@michaelsloanedog]

we need the water unit now The Graken

[@jiayojames]

infiltrate seems really OP

[@nilius90]

mass sticky bomb also known as mass hunter seeker

[@EwokOverlord]

awesome.

[@TempRawr]

i was there for sc2 early units, I expect this creature to never be release to the full release. Jokes aside it is fun but seems to be a lot in one package which I don't know enough about stormgate if this is a good or bad thing.

[@supersquare04]

seems very powerful as espionage, probably ideal at picking off enemy reinforcements while harassing infrastructure. I'm more intrigued to see the other t3 units if this is how powerful the graven is.

[@iandecisive]

Tracer with stealth?

[@nosferatuzodd8]

The Graven needs to move its arms while it runs.

[@blackomega34]

Totally, but they're trying to evoke Reaper from Overwatch it seems.

[@travisdunlap4526]

The sticky bomb will be a nice but not OP ability, a decent crowd control. The stealth because you lose it when you move or attack I think will have its uses but just be ok. Ultimately I think you would see a few units in an army for the sticky bombs or to push infiltrate, which just means that enemies will need basic defenses....which they should be getting anyway. the one ability I don't like is the speed on kill, I think Vanguard just get too much of that already (lancers get speed when they are hit, Exos can get a speed boost, now this unit gets one).

[@moonasha]

thank god, a video without the horrible chat

[@haoxus9413]

It also has a hidden ability to cause the opponent uninstall the game

[@Leny1777]

Aww man there like reaper rush

[@coremanEXE]

These seem wildly overpowered

[@MajinVegeto89]

I don't recognize Artosis voice if he isn't screaming about apes, imbalances and supply depots that didn't make

[@jpineapple9495]

artosis, just remember that if you are getting something for doing an ad, its legally required to be noted as an ad.

[@Alex-jv6ye]

Like what they are trying to do, but unless this unit is super expensive or takes forever to build, I think it will be over powered. Curious how the DPS stacks up against the marine or whatever they call it.

[@lucifirius]

where's its ultimate ability

[@SaintEaon]

But can it take a third base against Protoss?

[@giuseppebonatici7169]

proxy nexus will be the counter to the existence of this unit xD

[@jimmyskull6423]

if tracer was a ghost

[@averyola]

The only thing I could pay attention to in the video is how much better the new exo model is. Such an improvement Ps: serral is the goat

[@MyLifeFrAiurGaming]

op

[@seckinonen5543]

Very complex looking unit with a high skill cap.

[@nintandem2119]

Invisible men

[@invisiblemenproduction]

Yes

[@zero_wing_]

The hips look like they're made out of jelly.

[@diegobuenovillafane869]

so, a ghostalker

[@giuseppebonatici7169]

with fungal spores

[@achromicwhite2309]

It sounds like it'd be pretty useful against the hoards of free units of the other team. With the bombs and extra dmg against light targets.

[@LordChen]

Needs a global "Kirov reporting" sound alert for all players.

[@isaac_shelton]

Sounds OP, but in a good way

[@tkay42]

I wonder if the abilities really matter so much on tier 3 (aka in lategame) 🤔 Most of them, can be countered super hard at this point. Maybe infiltrate to open up, someone super turtled behind mass towers? I mean, how importand is woker harasment in lategame? Sure, if you don't get noticed you can realy wreak the worker line but still.... so easy so conter at this point of time...

[@firehawkph4ntom466]

cnc3 players when they see this unit: hold my shadow

[@daPawlak]

Love Stormgate content

[@marcinluter1195]

Red alert enginer not 2.0 but v5000

[@SagaraUrz]

Reaper copy? Pasive ability when out of combat, dual wielding guns, grenade ability

[@ghiidra__]

they shouldve called this unit the Giest

[@asdasd01]

Isn`t this Lucian from League of Legends?

[@aelix56]

The gracken

[@patrikpeli1016]

Definitely feels overpowered as of now, considering that 4 Gravens can destroy any structure almost instantly, and if used well, they can take out a line of workers, go into stealth, and blow up the command structure while also retreating immediately. Taking away the stealth from Infiltrate is a good direction, but I think adding another second to the channeling time would be necessary to give the opponent time to react, because as of now, a Graven can sneak into the enemy base, blow up supply, and leave, with this ability set, with fairly minimal risk. Thus I'd say its greatest nerf will not be changing its abilities, but rather abilities, units and structures that can reveal it.

[@MYCUH6]

I hope RT plays Stormgate again so I can complain about how terrible the art design of Stormgate is.

[@lvx969]

I feel like this unit is super overloaded. Like... they could have split this unit into multiple units with more focus on a particular role.

[@infeza3255]

this unit feels like they've just lost the plot

[@user-wz4bo3br7n]

Desparate to not be called boring and generic anymore. But they haven't the skills or ideas to create unique but engaging gameplay. So they just hash a bunch of crap together and hope it works.

[@ThePhoenix107]

@@user-wz4bo3br7n They definitely don't lack the skills as they have already proven their skills with StarCraft 2. Also, there are some unique ideas implemented. The 3rd faction plays differently than any other faction in an RTS and I like how it plays. The bunkers are another example of something very unique.

[@ZverseZ]

​@ThePhoenix107 the third faction is what everyone expected.. space angels (ahem protoss jr) There's been so many unique race ideas thrown around and they picked the most generic one😂😂

[@ThePhoenix107]

@@ZverseZ I meant gameplay-wise, not lore.

[@ZverseZ]

@@ThePhoenix107 that's true enough I'll still play it if they make the environmental textures better But we'll see

[@MSlocum669]

They gave invisible men to Terran???

[@frazzofwar]

This is a marine and sniper and tycus all in 1

[@illuminatyinc.]

First look hot-take: reaper ghost; After the video: late game harassment/win condition unit.

[@Bagginsess]

How are you playing with tier 3 units? The closed play test closed.

[@ashitaka8633]

Really dumb comment. He's a really big streamer so of course the devs will give him leaks to cover.

[@Bagginsess]

@@ashitaka8633 or I missed a newsletter from the kickstarter and wanted to know where to find it?

[@Bagginsess]

@@ashitaka8633 oh would you look at that I just got a newsletter. Huh funny.

[@dixiesama]

Them's child-bearing hips

[@Broockle]

There will come a meta where mass graven is op and gets nerfed back to heck like the Reaper. 😅

[@DanielTento]

I mean it's cool that one unit has more than one ability BUT it kinda makes micro overly complicated. A blink stalker has just one ability, being able to use it - is easy, to use it effciently is difficult and to master blink micro is insanely difficult. I would prefer simple abilities which you are able to master and use efficiently over exerpience and time

[@jebediah4780]

I don't think this game could be less balanced or competitive if the developers tried.

[@wcjerky]

It sounds great for setting up a powerful flank.

[@DavidZorkocy]

Sec-onds not sanc-eds But it looks very OP.

[@danielmata610]

At this point the only RTS worth waiting for is Starcraft 3…since that won’t happen then SC EVO is the next best thing.

[@brunohollenberger2563]

i think this unit is AYAYA

[@ExplosionLoli]

AYAYA

[@speakertrees]

A goop

[@Bollard]

So if I have 4 Gravens I can walk them all (stealthed) into your main, then blow them all up to instantly destroy your base AND steal 400 Luminite and 200 Therium? Lol

[@10Neon]

This would also disable the top-bar. Try to keep up.

[@Bollard]

@@10Neon but does it disable it four times?

[@ashitaka8633]

And it teleports you out so you get away with it for no costs.

[@Eliteownage]

It looks like a really fun unit to use and makes me want to play.

[@HashbeanSC2]

video is better at 1.25x speed

[@denarte6986]

Feels like they cramped too much gimmicks into a single unit. It’s blink stalker, ghost, overseer, blade master and Chinese hacker from generals

[@ashitaka8633]

You forgot reaper from ow and sc2

[@Goldfiend]

Can’t wait for them to announce the Cattlebruiser next.

[@ZverseZ]

Or the Brotoss

[@hungmarin]

I thought tier 3 unit of Vanguard would be a big war machine :)) But it's not

[@olavlomeland2183]

I like it, because it seems to excel at everything except from fighting in big battles. The Blink ability, it does not say if it requires vision or if it can be used up cliffs to higher terrain, but it does looks (combined with Stealth bonus damage) like a potential hit-and-run ability to kill one or two value units then get the heck out of there with. Sticky Bomb, could have potential. On its own it wont do much, but it could help defensively by slowing units so that long range units like Atlases gets a few extra shots. Does not say if it slows on the ground passively, or just to units on impact when it explodes. Infiltrate, looks like an interesting base harassment option, that will predominantly be used to kill structures. Looks overpowered with the current 25% max hitpoint damage, using only four to kill an expansion. But if it does become too strong, it could be balanced easely by having it deal flat damage instead of percentage, or make it so that taking damage interrupts it to make workers/static defense protect valueable structures. Overall I like it because it looks like an interesting unit in squads of four to six that promotes harassment and ambushes, while being potent on its own with its mobility, not needing support like air transport like most other units.

[@Mathos93]

my god this unit does too much lol

[@gustavostyle2914]

Interesting game but looks like an indi not a triple A like sc2 I really expect more and it has the same mechanics as a generic strategy game collect resourses and make an army. Inmagine if you have other 5 players playing solo champions like league of legends in your Rts but with a commander who are in charge of send them units make them and collect resources that's what innovation is.

[@yodabot]

It's not AAA game, they don't have the same funding. How manny AAA games do you know that have multiple funding projects? They don't have the budget to spend 500 mil on each game aspect

[@gustavostyle2914]

@@yodabot still looks like a indi

[@DrCoreyTuggers]

This game looks like the thing you settle for as the club is shutting down because you couldn't find anything under 200lbs.

[@ashitaka8633]

People aren't even going to settle for this game. It looks really bad and will be dead within the year.

[@DrCoreyTuggers]

@@ashitaka8633 dead on arrival 😂

[@ashitaka8633]

@@DrCoreyTuggers I think so.

[@ZverseZ]

​@@DrCoreyTuggerswhat's crazy is the amount of glazers on reddit I mentioned the dull environment and it gets down voted into oblivion 😂😂

[@ZverseZ]

Some ppl just bury their heads in the sand and pray things will work out like crypto bros "going to the moon"

[@user-wz4bo3br7n]

The more I see, the less I like

[@Keatosis_Quohotos]

Can't wait for the full release

[@ArsicPlays]

Amazing new mobile RTS. iPad owners rejoice!

[@sc2youtube744]

Lol exactly the same as a ghost

[@XerrolAvengerII]

I'm convinced that the team behind vanguard have no actual artistic direction and just get up in the morning like "what sounds cool today?"

[@TavoTevas-hc8fp]

Looks super fun unit, nice