Super Best Friendcast Live!: "Kratos is Absolutely, Unquestionably the Worst"

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[@NotAGoodUsername360]

Pat forgets that it's revealed in God of War 3 that when Kratos opened Pandora's Box, Zeus basically got infected with fear and paranoia that Kratos would usurp him in the same way Zeus usurped Cronos. So the betrayal wasn't ACTUALLY because of anything Kratos himself did. It's actually because Zeus got scared shitless of Kratos, and also because Hades epically fails at keeping Kratos in the Underworld.

[@ultimatedespairgamer6722]

Wasn’t there a prophecy before that kratos would kill zues and it freaked him out so bad that he imprisoned kratos’s brother cuz he thought it meant him. It sounds like zues was a paranoid nut job long before the box

[@diegomedina9637]

@@ultimatedespairgamer6722 Yeah, the prophecy was basically "Yo Zeus, watch out for the spartan with the red Tattoo" so they snatched Deimos and Kratos to honor his brother got himself a red Tattoo like Deimos.

[@LeviGratton]

"Good daddy Kratos" are words that should never be uttered even in parody.

[@ColdNorth0628]

LeviGratton *GOD OF DADDY KRATOS*

[@lazengan2024]

too bad they can be and eventually will be because he honestly isn't as bad as these dudes say most people should honestly do a little more research before just blindly following what they say because were all aware more often then not they're wrong.

[@boxtank5288]

carlos conde *GOD OF DADDY ISSUES*

[@wrequiem1727]

Am I the only one that thinks Old Man Logan in this discussion. Isn't it the same deal but with a character that isn't as bad?

[@wesleywilliams3846]

Lazengan they didn't even play to the psp games

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

To be fair, Kratos wasn’t meant to be this compelling character. Just a pissed off villainous asshole of tragedy. But with this new god of war, he can NEVER make up for what he did. EVER

[@cyberninjazero5659]

Brian. Jr Montoya I mean it would still be a better redemption story than post prequel Child Killer Darth Vader

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

CyberNinjaZero but Vader was supposed to be a complete villain. And his last redemption was killing the one guy responsible for pulling the strings and saving Luke. It didn’t make up for everything, but it’s more than Kratos who made Greece be left in shambles, and left it as is.

[@josh-oo]

CyberNinjaZero Those children threw sand at him offscreen though...

[@frickthefuckoff]

Brian. Jr Montoya There is also the fact that Anakin actually died. Kratos lived because FUCK IT we need a sequel and we don't want a new character!

[@cyberninjazero5659]

Norspark Kratos tried to die the Gods wouldn't let him so they could fuck with him some more

[@crackerjack452]

Woolie's reaction to Kratos being Zeus's son is GOLD

[@4Wilko]

1:00 for future reference.

[@karda009]

HUH! HOW ABOUT THAT eh it doesn’t matter nothing matters

[@erikferal]

To be fair, Zeus is nearly EVERYONE'S deadbeat dad in mythology.

[@Abon666]

God of War 1 is legit decently written for what it is. Kratos has a proper arc where he blames all of his problems, sadness and anger on Ares, spends the whole game trying to get his revenge, the gods help him out but in the end he realises revenge wont make the guilt go away. At the end there is no anger left, just sadness before he jumps of a cliff to die. The sequels basically ignored all if his character development in 1.

[@madmor6087]

Tony It also has a perfect and concise ending that the rest of the franchise ignored.

[@chrisossu2070]

I believe the creator of the webcomic Manly Men Doing Manly Things described Kratos as someone who was 99% blind rage and 1% suicidal depression.

[@benhramiak8781]

extra credits put it best: he first one was a tragedy, the others invalidated that story.

[@Brandonious15987]

Tony Its also worth mentioning that the hate he gets in 2 from the other gods is bs. Kratos is a newly made God of war. On top of them lying about giving him a peaceful death, they made him God of going nuts and destroying shit.

[@onimaxblade8988]

There was one thing I was disappointed that they didn't mention though. They were close, but forgot. In God Of War 2, yeah, it's literally all about Zeus and Zeus only and no other god gets involved, really... except at the very end where Athena, literally the only person Kratos likes, sacrifices herself for Zeus. That moment is what creates God Of War 3. Basically the only thing he cared about died for people he views as pieces of shit who have just been assholes to him his whole life. Kratos post GoW 1 is still the worst though.

[@TrueUnderDawgGaming]

To be fair, there's lots of incorrect stuff here. 1. Kratos was a slave to Ares (that was the deal he made to beat the Barbarians). Ares ordered him to kill everyone in that building, and also purposely moved Kratos' family there. Was Kratos a bad person before? For sure! But he has a genuine reason to hate Ares. 2. Zues put a curse on Kratos' mother that made her transform into a monster and try to kill him. Just adding that on top of the fact that he killed Kratos after begging him to kill Ares (which Kratos did), but then the Gods refused to erase Krato's awful memores (which they promised to do after he killed Ares). In Summary, Kratos' anger at the Gods (all of them) is justified. Is he himself an asshole? For sure! But let's not act like he has NO reason to be enraged in every single game.

[@RichardGrayson14]

Pats crazy talk is potent enough to give more people than himself crazy talk

[@CtisGaming]

We also have to throw how cruel GOW's universe is on top of this. If Kratos doesn't kill his target after Ares, he WILL burn for all eternity until he decides to break out and fight back anyway.

[@jjcandelabra6164]

@@CtisGaming wat target after Ares?

[@DiggitySlice]

It's Beet Friends. They make declarative statements about things they know little about all the time. It's part of their "charm"

[@DiggitySlice]

@@RichardGrayson14 the crazy talk meme only exists because they are wrong all the time

[@kdash3760]

Pat didn't mention that in 3 Kratos has a moment where he almost redeems himself by not sacrificing Pandora. Zeus then taunts him about not being able to save someone (mentions his family) when he was about to not sacrifice Pandora. Then let's go of Pandora then proceeds to beat on Zeus

[@NeoCreo1]

K Dash He also kills him self at the end to release hope to humanity and help them survive the apocalypse.

[@kdash3760]

NeoCreo forgot about that. Soooooo how tf he is he alive for 4? Maybe fake suicide lol. Wasn't Athena alive at the end as well in her spirit form or whatever? So she gonna be in 4?

[@zacharycooke7629]

So I remember a line in one of these trailers where when his son is talking about murdering a god kratos very angrily says there are consequences for killing a god. I think kratos might actually regret killing the Greek gods or at least realizes it was a really bad idea

[@najibothman2607]

yup. previous god of games was about the lengths someone goes when blinded by rage. at the end of 3, rage is gone but the world is in chaos and kratos sees that now, remorsed of his doing. Athena in ghost form and the only one left ask kratos to give the power kratos gained so that she herself could rule over the mortals like this a god with the power to save them. kratos kills himself, releasing the power back to the world, stopping the chaos immediately leaving Athena with nothing.

[@blitzkriegdragon013]

Najib Othman The ultimate "you didn't win!"

[@cpt.dandilion1231]

You also get to see Kratos from Poseidon's perspective, you know, right before he smashes your eyes into your sockets with his thumbs.

[@steeveewuzzheer1992]

Cpt. Dandilion that was my favorite part of the game. You press the buttons to make Kratos beat up YOU, from Poseidon’s point of view, and the final button sequence is pressing in both analog sticks. You press the buttons, you see kratos’ thumbs tense up, you hear the squelch and then everything goes black. Probably the most effective use of buttons in a button mashing sequence ever.

[@Samm815]

That sounds like the camera knows what Kratos is. A monster.

[@lucasmartinez5703]

+Sam Lucas Exactly. It's quite obvious that the game doesn't try to make him sympathetic at all.

[@RichardGrayson14]

Was pat wrong again about being able to see Kratos through zeus's eyes? Bc I just watched the ending to GOW3 and couldn't find that part at all

[@gentlemankaiju1997]

Vegeta blew up a shit load of planets before earth and killed his partner but people love him too. He even became evil again after his "change" for power and killed a bunch of the audience watching the tourney. Can he never redeem himself either?

[@playtoyx]

No

[@shupasopni]

No he can't. Vegeta is an irredeemable asshole but the writing tries to make him seem like a good guy. I love it and him. It's super stupid and Toriyama is hilarious for it. It's also hilarious that they are doing a similar thing with Frieza. They both assholes tho.

[@eusouocarameuirmao]

the dragonballs pretty much renders death meaningless doe, they brought back all the people that majin vegeta killed for instance.

[@mezeporta]

Only dbz fans love Vegeta. He is very irredeemable, and I would say he's on the same level as Freeza

[@crazygamer4260]

Yes because woolie likes Vegeta

[@MantraMan2077]

Okay. So I agree with Pat and Woolie in that absolutley _nothing_ Kratos does can ever make up for starting the literal apocalypse. He is quite literally worse than Hitler. But you know what? At least he is _trying._ It would have been so easy for him to go back to slaughtering everything around him in a new country after his suicide attempt failed. But at least, despite the absolutley humongous and apocolyptic cost it came at, he _learned_ that the cost of his revenge was too high. And now he's trying to stop someone else from making his mistakes. At least he's trying man. At least he's trying.

[@Batknight12]

To be fair about the whole apocalypse thing, it's not like the greek gods weren't already causing constant floods, famine, plague, war and general suffering among Greece for their own amusement anyways. They kept the worse of it in check but also caused much of it. In the long term that part of the world will probably better off after once it's rebuilt and the gods no longer around to fuck with humanity anymore. Not to excuse Kratos's actions or anything.

[@SirLawfulEvil]

I thought that same thing actually. It's the concept of "It's too late for me, but it's not too late for you." Kratos has apparently had a WHILE to stew over his actions. And from the looks of things, he's still big and angry but he is WAAAAAAY more chilled out than he was. He probably realized that he threw the biggest temper tantrum of all time, and decided to chill the fuck out someplace where he wouldn't be a scourge to anyone. A giant self hating piece of shit that destroys everything and can never be happy. Then he sees his boy turning into him and is like "NOOOOO DOOOOOON'T"! I can totally get behind this new Kratos. Like you said, he isn't redeemed very much just by having a kid. But that probably isn't the point.

[@69Kazeshini]

in the new god of war game kratos is not looking for redemption hes making sure his son dowsn't grow up like him

[@blitzkriegdragon013]

Okay, so a few problems with this. 1) Kratos is the most extreme example of the lesser of two evils. Both in mythology and within the universe of the game, the Gods are irredeemable. Zeus turned Kratos' mother into a monster for revealing his heritage, Athena turned Medusa into a gorgon because Poseidon raped her in his temple, Hades kidnapped, raped, and held Persephone against her will (within the universe of the game), and we all know what Hera did to Hercules. The Gods were absolutely awful people just like Kratos, and Zeus only betrayed Kratos because he feared his power (that is stated in-game). 2) A tragedy always has a character filled with hubris. Oedipus is the example we all know the most. Anyone who has read Oedipus knows that he wasn't a good person. He was a negligent and abusive King, who lead his Kingdom into ruin. The commoners and the court hated him and he was to arrogant to see it. He also tried to go against fate, which is going against the Gods, which is a no-no in ancient Greek culture. The term "hubris" means a fatal flaw. All characters in tragedies have them. Oedipus had his pride, King Leer had his ego, Macbeth had his lust for power, etc. Plague's concept of tragedies is extremely flawed within the context of this discussion. 3) Kratos released hope into the world. Now, yes, this sounds kind of stupid and it kind of is, but it happened. Inside Pandora's Box was the power of Hope. This is a power that only the Gods truly had. Kratos used it to kill Zeus, and against Athena's wishes, released it into the world. He gave humanity hope, which is implied to be what will allow humanity and Greece to rebuild itself. Though I thought it was only Olympus being destroyed, not Greece. 4) Let's not forget that Kratos was manipulated and enabled at all points. The Gods commanded him to do several tasks to kill Ares, Gaia gave Kratos the tools and instructions to kill the Gods, Athena enabled Kratos to kill the Gods and the Titans. This wasn't all Kratos, everyone else had an equal part in the destruction of Olympus. Throughout the three games Kratos was acting under the behest of others. He wasn't one man against the world, he was one man enabled by one fucked up, in-bred family that didn't care about the humans that lived below them. Kratos' one good act and selfless act of defiance, was giving humanity hope. Or another way of putting it, he gave humanity free will. He gave them the ability to act without the Gods, and not have to worry about their interference and punishments. Let's not forget, that during Kratos' adventure against Ares, when he was killing civilians, no one stopped him. No one said "hey Kratos calm down." The Gods don't care about humanity, Athena proved that in the end. Anyway, point is, Kratos is an asshole, but nearly every other God in that game is an even bigger one.

[@ColdNorth0628]

Persophene one is wrong though. She ate the fruit of the underworld when she was not suppose to

[@ColdNorth0628]

Who said she got raped by hades?

[@mezeporta]

You're right, this does sound stupid

[@williamfontoura]

@@ColdNorth0628 is in the mithology. Maybe not the one of the game, but for sure in the one we all get to know

[@williamfontoura]

And that is even more on the nose in the latest game. Odin is said to be the worst

[@Hocotatium111]

It's kind of hilarious coming back to this after finishing Ragnarok. I wonder if Pat's mind will be changed once he finishes it.

[@qlipothian]

To be honest he sounds like a typical mythical hero.

[@ethans7588]

He sounds like a more badass Heracles that never died.

[@Toastybees]

He sounds more like a sociopath who never realizes his actions have consequences beyond himself and that the world isn't entirely about him.

[@TheBAGman17]

you need to read more mythology.

[@cyberninjazero5659]

Big Surge Yeah exactly a typical Mythical hero

[@mightquinnable]

Big Surge you need to read more mythology

[@sadesemolu]

Kratos fucking Aphrodite is nothing compared to the grand scheme of things. Sure she's your cousin but she literally the God of lust, there's no other choice.

[@KingJosiahlolz]

theres no time

[@manuelmateo3392]

I mean there is, but Kratos apparently didn't care.

[@felabugg1]

Man the best part is right after. You walk through a portal and Hephaestus is like, "So, did you fuck my wife?" And then Kratos just says,"Why don't you go ask her?"

[@Semilion]

Whatever, no one would care that she's his cousin. Zeus is married to his sister, both of them came from both their mother and aunt, and plus a whole lot of Kratos' stepsiblings were conceived between brothers. And a big part of the rest of his family came from gods raping either people or other gods.

[@MrJustinArt]

Plus she's voiced by April Stewart. That's like an extra no choice.

[@Godlydragonfist]

You know, After Kratos killed Ares he was promised by Athena he would be rid of the nightmares that haunt him of his past, but Athena never did that, Kratos felt betrayed by this and tried to kill himself but Athena stopped this and gave him the title of the new God of War. Poor lad seemed like he never wanted this and with nothing left to give his life meaning, he stopped giving a shit about the gods and the people of Greece, until zeus killed him out of fear. And with being betrayed once more and on top of that he had his godly powers taken away, which was the only thing that kept him going then he turned to the last thing to finally give his life meaning again, murder the gods out of revenge of being betrayed. He's got his flaws and they are big but can you really blame the guy?

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

Well, looking back at this video and playing god of war on New Game Plus, boy did I eat my words. Like rather than justifying or sugar coating or forgetting what he did, Kratos fully acknowledged he is a monster and he will never undue his horrors, and they will forever haunt him in regret and sadness. But he will make damn sure his son will not be who he was at all, and break the cycle.

[@psychomammoth9640]

Also when Kratos opened Pandora’s box in 1, the things that were held in there would consume the other gods, Zeus getting hit the most by that of fear.

[@UnmotivatedSlacker]

Man, the gods were dumb dicks in this game, which is par for the course in Greek myths. Kratos murders Ares for them on the deal that they erase his memories of family murder. They don't so, he tries to off himself only to have the title god of war force on him instead. Opening Pandora's Box made the gods go crazy because it was filled with horrible curses which were sealed away by Zeus himself. This is the same box that they TOLD AND GAVE Kratos the means to open in GoW1.

[@Samm815]

The Greek Gods are always dicks. The only Greek God who isn't one is Hades.

[@Kage-pm6qi]

Sam Lucas and Pesophone, the only dickish thing she does is abuse the fact that Hades will pretty much grant any desire she asks.

[@MattManDX1]

Hephaestus was pretty decent as well. He was kind of bullied by the other gods because he was deformed and never did anything really dickish to people for no reason

[@sebastianbarrios2177]

Kage1713 Didnt Persephone try to destroy all of humanity(including the gods) in Chains of Olympus? And wasnt Kratos the one to stop her?

[@STRING3R]

I didn't like how they retconed Athena and pandoras box in GOW3

[@DevonPalmer98]

I bet kratos realized he fucked up but was too embarrassed to back down.

[@myriadtruth5167]

Too be fair, Kratos does admit he screwed up at the end of GOW3.

[@SomeRandomJackAss]

Kratos isn't a "good" person, but his revenge plot makes sense if you played most of the games. Ares allegedly teleported his family to the city he was attacking (which wasn't his), Athena helped Zeus trick Kratos into killing his mother, and Zeus tried to kill him (partly because what they mentioned, but also because of the curse on his family, which makes son betray the father). Hell, Kratos' brother was kidnapped and imprisoned forever (though Kratos thought they actually killed him) by Ares and Athena (which is why he has a scar over his eye, since he tried to stop it and got backhanded by the God of War). To extend all of this, the only thing Gods have ever done to him is fuck with him, so fuck them. He is totally okay with the casual murder of innocents, though.

[@Urnstick]

The only thing I really find fault in, is the idea that the camera was ever on Kratos' side. Yes they got some of the exact points slightly wrong, actually some major bits were very wrong(motivation, the circumstances of how the killing happened, Pat describing moments from the game) but Kratos is an irredeemable monster through and through. The issue is that this is the fact of the situation in the game itself. Nobody, not even Kratos himself believes otherwise, which is made explicit in the games by the fact that whenever he isn't murdering people he's desperately trying to murder himself. Remember in the first game he was about to commit suicide when they didn't remove his memories of murdering his family. His suicide in 3 was actually kind of on brand except for the extra desire tacked on to try to fix something in the world he fucked up and live up to what Pandora thought of him. The new God of War seems to be trying to paint him in a better light but again as they state in the video, the plot is again set off by his own fuck ups. His evil being in his son. I am worried that theyre going to try too hard to make him a decent man but I have hope. I can't hate on these guys for not liking Kratos. Their reasons boil down to "This character is too much of an asshole, I hate him" and that's understandable. Yes they seem to think that he's somehow not self aware but they're still generally right. He's a major asshole and deserves hate. You can not like things. Personally I like Kratos because he honestly might be one of the most emotionally expressive characters in this form of media. Always raging, always hateful but also equally depressed and broken with no attempt to hide it or pretend he's anything but. Suprsingly enough for a character that is basically edgy overly macho bullshit he's suprsingly light on macho posturing. Also on the subject of Kratos in marriage. Apperently he was a decent to great husband when not off killing. Yeah apparently.

[@DiggitySlice]

That doesn't change the fact that they talk about something like they know it but get basic details wrong all the time.

[@FlameOfUdun96]

Need to make your protagonist likeable, but you’re in a hurry? Just write in a child! Boom, instant character development!

[@LuckyBastard12345]

Does that mean Guts is going to be daddy Guts

[@daevious_]

It worked for Mass Effect 3! ...wait

[@FlameOfUdun96]

Your Mom but Guts is likeable already and don’t you dare tell me otherwise

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

Your Mom oh no. Guts is nowhere near comparable to Kratos in unlike-ability.

[@unclebayou53]

What if you hate the kid?

[@VGHistory1]

Kratos cannot be a good dad beCAUSE HE'S WEARING HIS DEAD FAMILY ON HIS SKIN.

[@Furymgs3]

Now to be fair, that's the entire point of Kratos. He was written as a _Greek_ hero, not as a _hero._ You can't blame the game for showing what it's trying to show. Also, I think your understanding of tragedy is a bit faulty. Tragedies aren't just about sadness and don't merely deal with "accidents" that are outside of the protagonists' control, they deal with events that are fatally bound to pass due to the characters' own faillings. And Kratos is very much a flawed character. He's ruled by passion. The whole bit about him mistakenly killing his own family in his bloodlust is actually the most tragic thing, in that regard, since this was directly caused by his complete unability to keep his temper in check. Kratos is literally the (Greek) hero of a (Greek) tragedy.

[@wormmon2006]

Also, what I got from 1 was that Ares manipulated a lot of the events. He saw how war-hungry Kratos was, thought he’d make a great tool, then manipulated events so that Kratos would sign a deal with the God, conqueror in his name, and then he moved Kratos’ family into the village to be killed why K was going nuts so that it would make him stronger/more useful.

[@soliduswasright678]

They did absolutely manipulate him. The PSP games and Ascension cover this a lot better. I mean he's still nuts but if you just play 1, 2 and 3 in order ; Kratos randomly turning into another Ares in 2 doesn't make much sense. Ascension and the PSP games cover that aspect. Also Hercules murdered his family too, to be fair.

[@najibothman2607]

Exactly. and when he does try to make things right, he still gets fucked over like the time with his daughter. and again with his real brother. and again with stopping Ares. He doesn't even want to be a god but does anyway for Sparta and was pretty decent right until what happened in Ghost of Sparta where the fuck ups of the gods in the past unraveled. And the Hercules murdering part is in actual greek mythology and not in the game if people taught this solely was in the game.

[@JAJOBANJO]

But also Hercules didn't know he literally saw his family as his enemies because of hera

[@soliduswasright678]

just like Ares putting Kratos' family in that temple. Ironic considering they're half brothers as well.

[@Samm815]

Heracles, though I choose to interpret Herk changing his name to distance himself from the woman who killed his entire family.

[@wesleywilliams3846]

Thank you finally someone remembers

[@Reiswalt]

Kratos' family weren't supposed to be there Ares put them there so he could make Kratos the "Ultimate Warrior". Zeus feared Kratos because he is capable of killing gods, which he got the title God Slayer after slaying the former God of War hence taking the title for himself as well as the position. Kratos destroyed Olympus because the gods manipulated the whole scenario knowing he is Zeus' son ordering him to fight Ares etc etc.Everything got messed up because of Pandora's box but Kratos made it worse because he's a berserker, he added to the chaos that's already happening within the gods.

[@smokinbonez420]

Went back to replay the gow games and pat is actually crazy. Ares made kratos kill his family by telling kratos, who is pretty much a slave to ares, to burn and fuck this village which he put his family in. After kratos kills the shit out of ares kratos asks the gods to make him forget and they tell him they don't owe him shit but hey we need someone to fill ares seat so here you go. Then, as a god of war who is still haunted by killing his family, he understandably said "fuck Olympus Sparta is my new family let them conquer Greece lololol" then after shrinking kratos, Zeus tricked kratos into giving up his god powers into the god sword and killed him with it, but not before whispering to kratos "you won't ever dethrone me you little fuck Olympus is mine fuck off little mortal" and still pat boils it down to kratos is asshole. Pat wrong yet again

[@ninjaboy4831]

Remember when Majin Vegeta killed a stand of bystanders in what was basically a midlife crisis...? People like that character but not Kratos?

[@UltrabotUltimus]

In God of War 2 he learns about that Zeus is his father from Athena... After he killed her.

[@LethargicGM]

Ultrabot Ultimus hell he learned that in the game ghost of Sparta.

[@najibothman2607]

Ultrabot Ultimus he killed Athena after she pushed Zeus away trying to save him and got stabbed instead. Jack the ass i don't think Kratos's mother fully got the chance to tell who exactly his father was. just that he was a god. about to say his name, the curse of telling the identity of the father kicks in, changing her into a deformed beast and tries to kill Kratos.

[@LethargicGM]

Najib Othman I'll check out the cutseans of that game later to double check.

[@najibothman2607]

the cut scene doesn't actually say anything about zeus name, just whispers and Kratos's reaction. my speculation is that at the end of GOW 2, Athena verifies that Zeus is the father and looking at Kratos's reaction, it just seems like he's piecing together what his mother said. Yes i know Ghost of Sparta is years apart in development but i just liked this idea.

[@DiggitySlice]

@@najibothman2607 you learn it in the very first game, in one of the secret cutscenes. The direct quote from the narrator is "he was the son of Zeus"

[@DrakeVagabond]

Kratos did do the nasty in the pasty.

[@Samm815]

The world is ending may as well fuck Aphrodite while her two hotter attendants watch.

[@TJtbh45]

The thing with these games, I'd say, is he's not a hero and not intended to be. He's just a protagonist. The hero of a story is usually the protagonist, but the two terms aren't always mutually exclusive. The protagonist of a Clockwork Orange is the farthest thing from a hero, yet you want to see where his story takes him. THAT'S a protagonist.

[@Khotgor]

4:00 - Bullshit, they didn't sack his own town, Kratos' family was taken from their hometown and brought to a different town all together. If you are going to diss the man, be accurate. Also he had to attack whatever Ares wanted him to attack after vowing to his service forever. After fighting the Barbarians he had to fight whatever Ares wanted him to fight. Ares took his family and brought him to another town to be killed by Kratos in heavy mist.

[@miguelj7636]

Khotgor woolie didn't even play 2 wtf

[@Samm815]

True, but Kratos is still garbage.

[@Khotgor]

+Sam Lucas - Absolutely, but let's be clear here... if you are going to diss him, be accurate. Totally different from going bloodlust and attacking his own town, and the gods taking his family and putting them in a place Ares told him to sack. Doesn't change the fact that he is willing to kill another person's wife and child, which makes him shitty/a monster, but still.

[@lazengan2024]

he's a spartan soldier serving a god after vowing to do this its wrong but would you deny the god of war the guy who saved you're life plus it isn't the only time they used him or fucked something up in his life

[@DiggitySlice]

Yeah people don't seem to understand that you don't have to disagree with the main point to take issue with their reasoning.

[@Alastor343]

its kind of amazing in how much they shit on kratos for being a monster they never realize thats the entire point. kratos wasnt a murdering psycho because edgelords wanted that. hes like that because the series was all about owning up to your own actions and stop blaming other people, and kratos' escalation from killing a guy over imagined slights to him causing the apocalypse was to showcase how scary and awful you can be if you never take responsibility for yourself.

[@HalfDemonInuyasha]

Initially, Kratos only wanted revenge on Ares. Then, when Zeus betrays him, Kratos initially only sought revenge on Zeus. Kratos kills most of the rest of the gods because they tried to kill him and got in his way of trying to kill Zeus. Doesn't excuse him of all his horrible assholeness or anything, but as ones like Hephaestus, Aphrodite, Hercules, Hera, and such show, it's that if you don't get in his way (and don't have anything that he wants or could use), he doesn't give a shit about you. Like Kratos only killed Hephaestus because Hephaestus betrays him and tries to kill him to stop him from doing anything to Pandora, and Kratos even tried to bypass Hercules without trying to fight him (saying it was not between them), but Hercules insisted on trying to kill him, and Hera badmouthed Pandora which simply pissed Kratos off...for some reason...

[@miguelj7636]

HalfDemonInuyasha wasn't Zeus infected with some evil power from opening Pandora's box in 3? I kinda wish they didn't do that and instead made him a paranoid fuck that's afraid of falling to the same fate his dad Chronos did. The concept of Kratos tackling his anger issues to avoid continuing a lineage of shitty dads could be super interesting and I hope they tackle that in GOW4

[@HalfDemonInuyasha]

Yeah, most of the Olympian Gods were infected by all the evil of the world after Kratos opened it in 1, which is supposed to be what made Zeus so paranoid about Kratos overthrowing him even though Kratos didn't care about ruling Olympus. It was more than likely an attempt to "justify" Kratos killing most of them or something.

[@miguelj7636]

HalfDemonInuyasha Oh that was all the way back in 1? Why wasn't Kratos infected then ? Unless the writers weren't really thinking about continuity much at the time since the story of 1 is pretty self contained and doesn't leave much room for growth.

[@miguelj7636]

HalfDemonInuyasha Wasn't he also on a personal vendetta against the gods at the beginning of 2 for not erasing his memories? That would explain why people like Hepheastus are so unwilling to help him. That and, well, he's also destroying the world bit by bit throughout 3.

[@HalfDemonInuyasha]

With the way the first game ended, it looked like they weren't planning in making sequels since it ended with Gaia narrating how Kratos was the god of war for all of time, showing various other wars that happen since, including WWI and WWII and such. They most likely didn't expect God of War to become so popular.

[@charliexl5877]

So you guys missed alot of crucial details in explaining why Kratos is how he is and how GOW 3 ends, but it's fine; even with a magnifying glass Kratos is still an asshole. I'm more interested in how he survived stabbing himself all the way through with the Blade of Olympus to "complete his revenge" (Which is very fitting btw) and his subsequent Journey to the new region he finds himself in. I saw a theory that I second, stating that maybe Kratos was rescued by a Valkyrie and taken to Norway or wherever the next game takes place. Maybe Kratos marries said Valkyrie? Side note: Soooo Aphrodite is still there? Just kinda, chillin in the Greek Apocalypse? What about Athena? She has some sort of "message" for all the souls of the people of Greece and she's also taken on a kind of ethereal but still tangible form. Are we to just forget about these things!? D E E P E S T L O R E

[@OldIronJohnson]

It's unsurprising that both Woolie and Pat haven't read a single Greek tragedy, but the real shocker is plague's inability to understand what those narratives look like.

[@wormmon2006]

Bring up the whole Redemption = Death trope, Kratos looks out at the apocalypse he caused and then stabs himself in order to release the power of Hope to the the surviving mortalkind. One could argue that he only did it fuck Athena over, but I’d like to give Kratos some benefit of the doubt because in classic Greek myth the gods fucked with mortals all the time. Also, the reason Zeus went after Kratos in 2 was because he was paranoid that Kratos would try to take his throne (thanks to the evils released from Pandora’s Box), so he merced Kratos to keep his power.

[@shupasopni]

The mortals he fucked over just before? That's not a redemption. That's just a good thing. He didn't even bring them back to life he just gave the survivors hope.

[@jaggidfire]

To be fair he tries to get all the gods to move but they like naw.

[@jaggidfire]

Really he is a douche tho

[@RASENGAN1081]

So we are just gonna forget he tried to kill himself just because he didnt want to live with the fact he killed his family but the Gods wouldn't let him. So legit he has a pretty good reason for trying to kill the gods before ya know getting his power stolen from the dudes who kept him alive.

[@Edward-Not-Elric]

17:08 It sounds like the game was dropping some pretty hard "I'm the villain" hints, Pat lol. That sounds like it's supposed to make you go "Oh. Oh shit."

[@Hansbricks14]

I’m never able to watch the podcast live, so I really enjoy these snippets from the live broadcasts.

[@Samm815]

Kratos accidentally killed his wife and daughter. Aphrodite is technically Kratos's distant cousin. Aphrodite was born from the balls of Uranus.

[@Abdega]

Almost all of them are related somehow…

[@Abdega]

Plus I bet he put some balls in Heranus (Ha-cha-cha )

[@jayalpha9163]

In the Odyssey, she's the daughter of Zeus and Dione

[@bract3519]

Hehehe ur anus....

[@mfmichi]

You kill them again in the psp game.

[@Damar158]

Funny seeing this after the game got released.

[@DoctorCVC]

It’s amazing how people had no faith you could make Kratos a redeemable or sympathetic figure. Hoo boy, did we all get surprised big time.

[@normallyscott563]

To be fair with Kratos, the gods played a trick on his eyes, disguising his family as enemy soldiers.

[@roflcopter_launchpad1116]

That shot of Kratos looks like Keemstar.

[@kenronald6786]

Roflcopter_launchpad 111 eh same thing really

[@ngmajora6986]

LETS GET RIIIIIGHT INTO THE NOOOOOOOOOOOSE

[@admiralpepper6933]

*_LET'SSSSS GET RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGHHHT INTO THE JUGULAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!_*

[@despadas]

yeah, after all those gods and harem ladies, Kratos' kink is probably super vanilla

[@Samm815]

Or just a palette swap of his wife. Instead of dark and swarthy he gets some light and pale.

[@rikowolfin4984]

ya I can understand that, it's the same thing with character design for me where characters with actual flaws look more appealing then generic pretty ones.

[@alexandernelson3703]

I wonder if the whole point of giving him a son is that Kratos as an individual is beyond redemption, so he can only be redeemed THROUGH his son. If the kid is a demigod with the family bloodlust there's a very real chance he could turn out as bad as Kratos. Kratos' job as a father is basically to make sure that DOESN'T happen. It less about making up for his own mountain of corpses than it is about trying to prevent the SECOND mountain of corpses that will result if his son makes the same choices he did.

[@zrifepsych]

Of course Pat just left out Pandora

[@Dread_Not]

I'm happy with how happy Plague of Gripes seems to be about being on the podcast. Edit: or should I say Eli?

[@vtech325]

Didn't the gods *trick* Kratos into killing his family?(Although it wasn't much of a trick.)

[@franzhopper7631]

Yes Kratos was killing people in that city in 1 but so were like a thousand other guys too because Ares told them to. Ares also made his family look like other people when he killed them. So yeah still a murderer but in that world a lot of people did the same stuff as Kratos. Also his family knew he was a soldier which meant they had to know he was always out killing people.

[@thedanhibiki6960]

These giant infants make a living on being wrong and opinionated alt chicks, this is literally what they do

[@DiggitySlice]

@@thedanhibiki6960 "wrong and opinionated" is a great way to put it. It's a shame, when they're at their best they're great, but at their worst they're DarkSydePhil

[@proposterous2808]

​@@DiggitySlice "they don't like the mc of my murder tantrum simulator, so I'll compare them to one of the most irredeemable, worthless slobs online - that's what a functioning adult would do!"

[@Zmanwarrior]

What's funny is the new game basically agrees with them.

[@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat]

Man there are people that actually think the new god of war sucks, and put energy into it for some reason

[@BorikeTheBlackDragon]

It's weird coming back to this after the LP

[@treygoeshard]

Remember in GOW2 when you fight and kill your right hand man then proceed to use his fresh corpse as a tool in the fight with the kraken.

[@amahrle2767]

treygoeshard and he was also tricked into killing Kratos as well and they found out after the fact. Well when the human died.

[@3serio]

A monster..... But he's your monster no longer 😂

[@therussiancomicbookgeek]

Kratos wasn’t meant to be the hero in the original games...Atreus’s true name makes sooooooo much sense its legitimately tragic

[@chinesecheckers6929]

This was a great podcast

[@tentacle_bear6941]

Well at the end of three Kratos does kinda have a moment of redemption where he kills himself and supposedly releases his powers to the survivors. It kinda implied that they'd no longer need gods with that power so...i assume this is supposed to be like reincarnation thing instead of him just leaving the mess he made in Greece.

[@tentacle_bear6941]

Well I just looked up the ending. Apparently my game was glitched because it never showed that sequel bait shit.

[@Reqqqqqs]

Giving the survivors a chance at surviving the apocalypse you started for no reason doesn't make up starting the apocalypse for no reason.

[@DiggitySlice]

1:09 at this point it should be apparent how little they actually know about this subject. The FIRST game has a cutscene explaining Zeus being Kratos' father. It's one of the bonus cutscenes. I'm also pretty sure he calls Zeus "father" a few times in 2. You don't have to wait til 3 to find that out.

[@_sleepystarrynight_8119]

Woolie's issue with Nathan Copeland reminds me of a similar issue I had with the Black Panther movie. That opening scene in the museum where they kill super innocent people was really dumb and super disgusting. The villains poison an innocent lady who was no threat to them. One of the villains tells a survivor "haha I won't shoot you" and as the guy runs away the villain shoots him in the head. Like what? "The camera" that Woolie refers to was totally on the villains' side too, making the whole thing into a comedic/"badass" segment. Fuck that movie, glorifying murderers and extremists.

[@JerardKal]

Here on Podcast, Woolie interviews a short ginger Kratos.

[@pomki8291]

See this, GoW fans? This is what listening to them talk about Hunter x Hunter is like.

[@RichardGrayson14]

Because they got so much wrong lmaoo

[@MichaelWasnotTaken]

The reasons they hate him is why I love that dumb character. Personal growth be damned. I gots mines says the 7' 8" Greek weirdo.

[@Samm815]

I don't blame you.

[@firstnamelastname7034]

I mean it would work that way if he at least acknowledged he probably needs emotional growth and then just goes "nah I'm better this way" but the way he's written in 2 and 3 and a bit of 1 is the equivalent to a child throwing a tantrum, and has about as much depth.

[@justanobadi6655]

"you know ... I COOOOUUULD have character growth, but fuck it"

[@logandh2]

So you’re a fucking sociopath then?

[@Yal_Rathol]

@@logandh2 you need to learn what a sociopath is. they wouldn't like kratos if they were a sociopath. they would feel nothing for kratos if they were a sociopath. sociopaths can't empathize.

[@DanielAvelan]

"A little bit of his wife slid in to his new wife" Goddamn it Plague.

[@chriskoloski32]

Kratos also made a deal with the gods that he would be forgiven for murdering his family and instead they made him a god so he'd have to live with it forever. So he sent Spartans to ransack everyone's homes

[@MegaTyler93]

I'm very glad that when Woolie said Kratos was the worst video game protagonist ever, that Pat clarified in terms of morality, yes. Because honestly he is far from worst protagonist in video games. Protagonists that are just straight up boring (like Aden Pierce from Watch Dogs, Altair from Assassin's Creed 1, any David Cage protagonist) those are the worst video game characters. Kratos is at least not a boring character. He's not a good guy in any stretch of the imagination but he's a pretty decent video game protag.

[@MegaTyler93]

Kratos was never supposed to be a likeable character. Not every protagonist needs to be a knight and shining armor. I liked that about Kratos. He's certainly not the worst protagonist ever.

[@DiggitySlice]

I heard people lodge the same complaints at Catcher in the Rye

[@kataphrut7740]

It’s funny to watch this after the God of War LP, where not only did Kratos’ redemption arc win them over, but they got on board with it pretty fast.

[@zcadle1013]

Love these snippets

[@linkwolf7047]

this sounds like the opposite of your typical fight club / rick & morty syndrome, where people see this awful person that doesn't care about himself or others and somehow think "well, this is the main character, so obviously he's a hero/right".

[@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat]

I wish there was more media where the main character is just an asshole, and has no interest in being a hero. “Oh you saved me! Thank y-“ “I saved you to use you for the blackmail of someone else” Basically like it’s always sunny where every character just gets progressively worse

[@rageinryan185]

5:43 pat reveals his ultimate technique by attacking the innocent (bottom right screen)

[@Xwartu]

This was youtube recommended so I thought this was new, turns out it was 5 months old

[@xandertrejo]

The ending of the "Woops fucked my mother" that Plague mentions actually ends with "Woops fucked my mother now I must tear out my own eyeballs as a punishment." Why are you guys downplaying the defense of Kratos' shitty character.

[@pg1801]

Hercules murdered his own family

[@rasendori20]

Now i remember why i'm so abrasive with these guys, they don't know what they are talking about. Like, what Pat and Wollie are saying is just incorrect. They didn't even play the third game! Aries PUT Kratos's family in that temple and told him he did. And what rage mechanic? I love there banter but FUCK MAN, some of the shit that comes out there mouths is baffling. Talking about the gods as if there victims and not sanctimonious assholes who do what ever they want and didn't have it coming? Christ i'm getting JoJo All-star flashbacks. I finally find someone who hates the new god of war but for all the wrong reasons. "At the end of three you see thru the eyes of Zeus" What the FUCK game did Pat play!!!!

[@3slicessenpai]

Say what you will about Kratos being a monster, which he absolutely is, but at least the new game doesn't paint Kratos in an heroic light by the end. The story never lets him forget that he is a monster and he accepts that and tries to save, not himself, but Atreus from becoming something like him. It's a character redemption story done right, in the sense that the bad acts that the character did are not erased by the end and are a driving force behind his actions (looking at you, Vegeta).

[@barttomas4484]

Kratos and good dad should never be in the same sentence

[@KurstKensei]

Remember everyone if you want Woolie to love your game, make the main character kill innocent people that have nothing to do with the story.

[@cyberninjazero5659]

The Real plot of the series for those who finished watching and wondering how wrong Pat got it. GoW I: Kratos is a Comander in the Spartan army faithfully serving the gods. Ares sends Kratos to destroy the village of Ares rival goddess Athena, Ares just to be a dick places Kratos family there. Oh and on top of that the reason he's all white is because an Oracle grafted the ashes of his family on him. Ten years of serving the gods later Athena (remember her) offers him redemption in exchange for killing Ares (The gods aren't allowed to kill their own). So Kratos does Athena tells him he's redeemed but he still has the PTSD nightmares and tries to kill himself he's stopped from doing that and is made the new God of War. Plague is super fucking wrong that is a Greek tragedy, the Greek word for "hero" was basically someone important and powerfull it had nothing to do with being good you could make a Greek tragedy with Hitler as the main character. Woolie is also wrong the levels where Kratos brutally uses people as props are proof enough to the player that Kratos isn't a good person not everyone has to be spoon feed like a pie thief GoW II: Kratos ignores Athena and rejoins the Spartan Army (he's still pissed at her for not getting rid of his Flashback Nightmares).A giant eagle drains his God of War powers and brings the Colossus of Rhodes to life Zeus offers him a sword that will help him win but only if he infuses it with the rest of his power, he does and wins after getting a fatal wound Zeus reveals he was the giant eagle all along and gives Kratos one last chance to serve the gods (you know the ones that kept fucking him over the whole time) He tells Zeus to stick it up his ass and gets cast down to the underworld (The rest of the army is destroyed too) where his revenge begins. GoW III this one has the worst story in the series and everyone knows it sucks so it's no problem if the best friends butcher it.

[@mrpostman6024]

Oh god I love the bitterness in the comment.

[@RichardGrayson14]

All three had crazy talk this entire clip

[@DiggitySlice]

@@mrpostman6024 how much of a sycophant do you have to be to call someone "bitter" because they want someone to actually _know what they're talking about_ when they're shittalking something?

[@DiggitySlice]

@@RichardGrayson14 the meme was funny at first but it's getting to a point where people are using it to excuse bad behavior

[@DiggitySlice]

I disagree about 3. I never played the game nor do I know the story but no matter how bad it is it deserves _accurate_ criticisms

[@Ialliac]

Remember that time Kratos pressed triangle and ripped that guy in half...good times

[@kovulion7777]

They tried that Shadow of the Colossus with you being a murderous monster

[@farrellcityking1]

“I gave up after the first game”. 😐 Do these guys like any good games that aren’t fighting games or from the Souls series?

[@DiggitySlice]

I can think of a few but I think you're on to something nonetheless

[@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat]

Good as in liked, or good as in considered worth playing

[@brightdrake_9992]

This vid and comment section hasn’t aged well. XD

[@stevenbarnes6577]

Little does Woolie know that the VGA nominated Kratos for best Video game character of the year!

[@123bluesssman]

Wasnt there like a plot twist in GoW 3 where athena explained that when kratos opened pandora’s box, all the good vibes went to kratos and the bad vibes to all the other gods, which is why zeus went apeshit? That was fucking dumb

[@AntiNihilist]

Woolie hadn't played the games. HE MUST BE RIGHT...the fact that Pat didn't say what Kratos did at the last minute of GoW3 is pretty funny and then it wasn't mentioned that Kratos seems to be on a redemption journey in the new game so obviously the writers are thinking in line with Woolie. Which is a good way to kill a series. Kratos seems to be turning into a completely different character, losing many of his character action movements, and the action has seemed to have changed to a unique FPS form of hack and slash. I'll be shocked if it's not a dud of a release, coming from someone who has played every previous game and loved them, but if it gets new fans then I guess I'll live with all the other great games coming out this year. Like Yakuza 6 and Ni no Kuni 2 and Tomb Raider 3

[@fillosof66689]

ponquinful are you happy to be wrong? Or do you maintain that the new game failed to build a good continuation of Kratos' journey?

[@DoctorCVC]

Dude wow, so how did the game treat you?

[@AntiNihilist]

@@DoctorCVC I just ended up ignoring it. Maybe The God of War 2 will have a jump button...and move the camera away from Kratos. The fact that the game is so different than the previous games, both in mood and gameplay, makes me wish it had been a new IP. Obviously they were just cashing out on the name.

[@DoctorCVC]

@@AntiNihilist oof, that’s too bad. I personally really enjoyed the change in story direction and gameplay, and the game seemed to have been a pretty big hit with a lot of gamers, but everyone has their preferences. I will say I think the change has some obvious influences from the creator’s lives, as Cory Barlog himself cited his experiences becoming a father between games informing his input on the story, so I do sense a genuine heartfelt intent from the creators on making this type of game.

[@AntiNihilist]

@@DoctorCVC I think I would've been fine with the story changes, if the gameplay was at least familiar. It lost all mobility and that's just way too much of a change. But I also think the story can, and needs, to be addressed way more in the next game. Like, how Kratos met his wife...what motivated him to start another family after everything that happened. Why did he go to live in the far north, which just so happened to be the only other place in Earth with such a major pantheon of Gods during that time period. The Indian and Egyptian Pantheon's were long gone by 500(ish) BC. I know it's for game reasons but there still should be a good reason considering how much Kratos didn't want to deal with Gods anymore.

[@HRIgnomious]

While I agree with you about God of War 2 & 3 Kratos, God of War 1 Kratos is more like a hero from a greek tragedy. People seem to forget, but Kratos main goal of God of War 1 isn't revenge on Ares but to seek forgiveness and to have the gods erase his feelings of torment from having killed his family (killing ares is just what the gods have him do to accomplish this). Having done everything the gods asked for, the gods forgive him but say that they can never erase the feelings of his family, which is why he attempts to kill himself in the ending.

[@HRIgnomious]

While still definitely not a good guy, he's more like a tragic/ byronic hero then an outright villain protagonist. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHqYq2xpmrmogdk

[@HRIgnomious]

This video basically does a good summary of Kratos' character kzbin.info/www/bejne/eKXKcmmJlq17l5I

[@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat]

So he doesn’t ask for his family back, but instead to forget he ever killed them? Wow I mean Idk if resurrection is a thing at all in gow Greece, but I don’t think he even asked

[@tigerfestivals5137]

The chat at the end about random violence reminded me of when Kiryu in Yakuza Kiwami used that random employee to use as a meat sheild against bullets instead of ducking behind the various tables and counters.

[@Asgardian30]

When Pat says that Kratos is a monster, he is accurate. I love the line when Kratos is speaking to the shade of Athena she calls him a monster, he replies "Yes, but I am your monster no longer".

[@MrPig41295]

Lp confirmed?

[@wanderintwilight1760]

I really hope so.

[@wanderintwilight1760]

That would be fucking glorious. lol

[@Chadius]

All we need is Pat to yell "I WILL NEVER PLAY GOD OF WAR FOR THIS CHANNEL!"

[@whylikepie15]

LP confirmed ;)

[@Erk1234567]

An important quality of Greek tragedy is that the hero has a noble quality that leads to their undoing. Oedipus is trying to save Thebes. Antigone wants to honor her father by burying him against the wishes of Creon. Kratos has no noble quality. He's a wrathful, spiteful warmonger who destroys the world because of a personal vendetta.

[@immortalweapon]

I think the biggest issue here with Kratos that they didn't mention is that Kratos isn't on a revenge mission against the gods. He killed Aries because they promised to remove the memories he had of killing his family, and then said "nah, we can't do that shit." Kratos was glad to be a murder happy fuck boy, but just remembering his murdered family was bumming him out.

[@CDKing_]

You left out the part where after destroying Greece he even tries to kill himself! Really though I love Kratos for what an absurdly written evil character he is, lol.

[@chosebine2169]

know what would save this game? like at the very end, kratos get hit on the head, then when he gets back up after a few minutes HIS MEMORIES ARE BACK AND START REMURDERING INNOCENTS FOR NO REASON -burp-

[@crazygamer4260]

chose bine he doesn't have amnesia I don't know where you got that, he remembers who he is and what he did after 3 he tried to move past it but his past has come back to him

[@blitzkriegdragon013]

He didn't kill people for no reason in the temple. Ares ordered him to do it. You don't break a vow with a God.

[@4Wilko]

1:21 - Oh. So that 10 unfairest bosses clickbait recommendation by KZbin isn't just to me eh?

[@KapitanPazur1]

Finally someone who share my view on Kratos.

[@MrStatistx]

I never thought he needs to be likeable or have progression. He is the game version of older action movies, he just needs to kill enemies and have a simple goal